[Music] [Music] we are going to talk about India's wealth creation which is on a huge rise I mean think about it numbers talk about themselves we are on track to become a 5 trilon economy by 2025 let's suppose we reach there by o27 o28 the third largest in the world deeply entrepreneurial nearly three individuals each day join the ultra high Networth club with a network of more than $30 million as startups go to market India definitely is in a steep growth trajectory that is set to alter the local wealth management Market as needs and demand streams to understand more about India's richy rich and the wealth creation Journey welcome sides dander and PR s Gupta from 3Q private wealth a multi-generational wealth management form to really understand about India's unprecedented story in wealth creation sadesh and prti my sheer pleasure and privileg to talk to both of you let's really talk about the India story before I Le dwell further on the threeq story what really is the India story on WE creation uh one really understands that covid-19 on the face of it even though how bad it was technology penetration was at speak and that has really led to a number of uniforms being shown on this country so there is a lot of wealth creation happening especially on the startup side the private Capital side give me a breakup how does it really look like the old Rich the new rich and the so-called Tech yes thank you sha uh uh thanks for this and I welcome all your viewers and uh I I hope this is going to be a very meaningful conversation uh well I think uh there's a definite paradigm shift and uh as you rightly pointed out the inflection point could have been covid uh but we see a lot more new ultra high Networth individuals coming in the scene breaking in in the scene rather uh the main difference I think from the the traditional investors today is that they are more of Risk Takers uh and certainly that kind of shows uh in the Sip books uh the domestic inflows that we are witnessing off late and that's very evident that more and more people today are saving for the longer term uh that's for sure we also see uh that there is certain amount of permanence or consistence in the capital influ uh earlier I think we have all witnessed the the 2008 uh period of market crash um and multiple other times of depression where we always saw the domestic investors mimicking the foreign investors uh so the smart monies would move out and so the domestic investors would bear the brunt and then they would also move out at a steep loss uh this time however if you look at the recent Ukraine Russia post uh covid that's a good example to take uh we didn't see the kind of correction that was anticipated on the back of outflows from the foreign investors and that was primary to do primary to do with the the amount of inflows that we are seeing on a regular basis from the retail clients to the uh ultra high Network individuals and that's a definite change so the mindset has changed that's for sure the other thing I think uh shria uh what we are witnessing at this point of time is that the new rich people are also interested in alternate asset classes much more than the traditional investors were uh this probably has to do do with uh the fact that there are certainly more opportunities there's certainly a lot of ease of doing business there's no doubt about it uh structurally we have made quite a lot of changes a lot more people are under the banking gambut today all right so uh there has been a lot more inclusion with respect to uh the financial uh capital in the market uh and we have seeing those flows coming into the markets and people are starting to look at all alternative asset classes uh which are diversifying factors to their traditional Equity investing approach so that's a definite change that we have seen when you say alternative asset classes you're looking at private Equity private credit startup investing right not necessarily public markets is what you mean and so of what's really change yeah that's exactly what I'm uh I'm saying sha because private markets if you look at it uh is a relatively new as it is okay uh so nowadays the investors they are not only looking so there are two things to it one is how good is the the private Market a diversification tool compared to fixed income because you have to compare to so the money that are flowing the monies that are flowing towards these private markets are necessarily not public Equity money so they are not being looked as a substitute to public equities rather I'm seeing a lot of investors taking interest in private markets in Li of fixed income Okay now what's the reason while fixed income is a fantastic source of diversification from the public markets per se but there's a great risk that a lot of traditional investors fail to Discount which is the shortfall risk in the longer term with respect to the goals they have if they want to reach somewhere adding fixed income Maybe be a very good diversification tool but it may also result in much lower returns and it may result in them having not meeting their goals uh in future now with private uh markets what the investors think is that yes the correlation with uh public equities is definitely higher so the diversification benefit is probably lesser but over the longer period of time because they think that they have and the rich people are much younger okay uh the Millennials are becoming the ultra high net worth individual which is very heartening to see uh and they are thinking well I have 20 years time Horizon I I'm not looking at 10 months I'm not looking at three years five years so the definition of long-term for the real investors in this market has become much longer although they're impatient I must tell you that they are impatient they look at their portfolios far often uh they try to Benchmark themselves uh to some of the other markets um but despite that impatience I think there is a definite urge to look at the private markets for the longer period of time because of time Horizon and because inherently they are uh risk taker so they don't mind the volatility in the short term as much as the traditional investors did ear okay but give me some sense of sort of where is India on the wealth creation Journey if I compar it to the rest of Asia of the world I mean this entire reports and this entire narrative that perhaps three Indians or three people are joining the trai Club sort of every day I mean how realistic it is because the gap between the rich and the poor seems to be only increasing I mean the rich is only getting richer and the poor is getting poorer I mean they also s of there was a recent report which actually said that the most of wealth creation in India is actually happening and it's only limited to top 2% so in a way if you talk talk about it from your capitalist point of view perhaps you the right path but if you look at it from a demographic dividend uh it's clearly it is that the tech Rich especially the tech fueled rich is actually deepening the income divide between the rich and the poor is it fair to say that well I think we are in a transition phase to be very honest with with you sha because the per capita income has also kind of moved up by 80 90% let's understand that uh plus because of the demographics uh sizable number of people are in uh the lower age bracket which means that they are still unemployed uh there are challenges I don't uh deny that I don't look at everything with a uh you know RO with rose tinted glasses uh but I don't think that uh it it would be fair to say that there are only negatives in India uh on the from the perspective of you know three new people breaking into that look I don't I don't read too much into these numbers because as a country we ought to move towards those you know infrastructural structural changes which can improve our quality of living that's what I'm looking at uh and that means that there should be inclusivity in the new capital that's coming to the so we want more rich people uh three people breaking into I don't know if that's sustainable or not or if it is an under qued number or over qued number uh but I I I I I don't find you will of course want more rich people because you want to manage that goes without I I would want deepening you know I think if you look at it that way sh if you're talking about say 7 10 years back about a percent of the Indian market invested in the capital markets Indian population today that number probably is upward of 5 and a half per. okay so we are certainly seeing lot more people coming into the capital markets now that you can attribute it to people getting reach rich or you can also attribute it to better banking system more more more money is into the banking system uh I I I I I do not want to pinpoint it to a policy reform but I can say for sure that generally people have more money in their hands today uh than what we believe uh or what politicians believe that they have because this Co taught us a big lesson I mean I don't think that many people died of hunger during covid policies were appropriate uh and people had money okay we we will ignore the long cues in front of the liquor shops in Delhi once they were allowed to open to really point out how much cash people had but ignoring that piece I think it's fair to say shria that there is definite Improvement in quality of life the newer people they're not buying homes but they want to travel if you look at the the the signals that are there in the economy the premium consumption is going up the discretionary spends are going up so earlier if you look at consum and I always look at the Indian markets as a consumption story first you know and I I believe that it's going to stay for a very very long time Indian consumption story can be delayed cannot be curled if you look at the consumption patterns in India about 30 35% of consumption uh was basically food related items now there's a shift I'm not saying that that 30 35% has come down to 15% or 20% but I'm seeing the discretionary spend is going up and that discretionary spend is not going up in pockets it's going up across India so that tells you a story for us to really get a data it will take some time obviously but the way I look at it there are more people on the streets the conclusion basically is that India is getting a fluent I mean we are getting a fluent is happening the consumption story is intact and more and more people are joining the ultra club that that you look at the net yeah you look at the net worth of the affluent in India it's grown in terms of percentage of 84% rise in the last few years three to four years that itself tells your story so the factors are basically the obvious on essentially the technology growth essentially what we are talking about this entire huge inflow of private Capital private Equity coming in the money pumping into startups that one can say right and that has also given birth to mushrooming of lot of wealth management firms now there are a lot of wealth management firms and all of you come with the thesis and from a distance all of you sound similar right that we are very very class focused we want to give the best returns to our clients uh we have a diversified strategy like you mentioned that private Market is diversification tool and not a substitute for the private market so how is one different from the other or is it that all of you have picked up your sweet spots some are catering to ultra families some are catering to the retail clientele some are catering to the people in between uh what is really happening in India's wealth management space yes and sad I I want to hear your voice sure correct so I think to add to what you're saying everybody does have their own Niche which they have picked up you know uh I have seen so many colleagues uh you know taking a particular piece you know somebody might be looking at building up a sip book which in in my opinion is really commendable you know uh smaller setups have have sip books created upwards of 2 cres 3 Crowes four Crowes per month you know which is really really meaningful you know when when you look at growth perspective uh you know this is the retail money which is going to drive the entire uh you know growth for us and which we have seen now uh so having said that yes there are people with with different niches and you know people are either looking at managing a particular segment uh like for example I have seen people you know who would only said that okay I manage doctors or you know I manage a particular profession so there could be different segmentation you know somebody could be segmenting based on assets some uh some body could be segmenting based on maybe profession so and so forth so that's that's how things are I I also think shria to just to add a point to it uh if you look at the ultra high net worth individuals they're not necessarily always looking for advice okay they are looking for more data to comprehend better to understand the market situation better they're also looking to talk to someone knowledgeable and I think that's of utmost importance when you see the markets today and you talk to advisers or relationship managers or ifas at large I would like to believe that it's a clear 8020 20% of the market actually have or possess Superior knowledge the 80% of the market it's trying to just you know build the books from the perspective of power of compounding uh build the portfolio start investing let's grow it so that differentiation is there in the market and it's fragmented so there are some people who are doing the work of being a knowledge partner of the client there are some people who are saying I'm with you let's invest let's get the ball rolling let's snowball it into something larger for future so that exists in the market and that's why I believe that there is a place for everyone but over a period of time as and when the Wes grow in number and they have formidable amount of experience in the markets they are definitely going to look for more and more knowledgeable experts so give the trends about these new Rich these wealth creators right I mean what really is happening what are their asks like what are their aspirations what really is playing on in their mind I would want to get a sense and while we were talking you mentioned that sha we want to really position ourselves as a multi-generational wealth management firm so whilst you began with somebody who was in the late 50s to now you're also managing the monies of the next gen right so I'm sure with every generation the aspiration changes with every generation the ask stream with every generation succession planning questions also come to the F right so give me a sense of uh the trends happening for these weth creators yeah right I think speaking generally and not particularly related only to wealth management what I see is that the next generation is very keen on doing something different they do not want to practice what their father and grandfather had put in place uh I see a lot of Rich families where they are into very established businesses say jewelry and diamonds or chemical business you you name it the Next Generation necessarily is not into this business he's a lawyer he's a private equity manager you know and he's probably earning much less than what he would have otherwise earned from his father's business but there's a definite aspiration to do something of his or her her choice I think that didn't exist before uh most people were very happy taking over their uh you know previous generations business that's number one um number two I think there's a lot more uh need or want or desire to be a part of something so it's not a plain simple investing in a bunch of stocks can I meaningfully contribute to the grow and that's where the private markets also come into picture they also have their own say ESG considerations just to name one thing uh so people necessarily are not looking at Investments only from the perspective of compounding their money they're also the modern generation looking at deriving certain alternate values from the Investments that they make and that's where I see a remarkable change and their opinionated it they don't want to uh okay in the previous generations we saw investors with really large wealth they're diversify by talking to multiple advisers the new generation however okay they want to evaluate everyone but they want to go with the top one or two with whom they really find Comfort which is much like a marriage you know the the Union of thoughts and despite yeah compatibility despite them having a risk of running wrong with one adviser what they believe is that difference of opinion is good to read on papers but very difficult to live with under the same roof much like marriage you know so that's why they believe that if you have similar set of values if you look at things similarly of course it brings in certain amounts of risk I don't argue on that point but that's the kind of advisor need uh mu who will also be very blunt and tell me that look Mr X this is not the right thing at the same point of time he's not going to deviate from his four set of values just because a particular asset class or a particular fund is more lucrative from his remuneration point of view that is a change that we definitely see and and that's what we appreciate you saying that the considerations are really moving towards esga how is a philanthropy piece coming along this entire conversation and uh and we spoke about ESG but honestly frankly if you ask me ESG remains it's almost like green washing right it's like a f to me it's like people are really doing out ESG funds ESG considerations and I think a lot of a lot of fund managers and not I'm not saying you all a lot of fund managers who are on road are also now raising ESG funds because that is the music to the years of LPS institutional investors but I really want to understand and and and I want this conversation to be like really but on the ground realities of uh really what is happening in the wealth management space that are we telling the clients or the richy rich or the families what they want to hear or or what really is good for them I mean what really is happening I completely agree with you sha and uh YG as a theme has not delivered and I see a lot of challenges in uh you know of with all due respect to fund managers who are raising all kinds of money I still believe that an investment ought to be Diversified if you want to make meaningful changes in the society there are multiple ways to do it now I'm not saying that go and invest with XYZ where you don't know what business is into but uh and and it's a personal feeling and we have never pushed ESG as a theme to any of our investors we have never tried to take a moral standpoint and tell them what to do and what not to do from moral standpoint uh uh I don't think that it has worked very well uh future is yet to be seen I never claim that I know everything and I know the future that's something that I definitely don't claim uh but I see there are challenges in making money from a very narrow theme like ESG especially because there are obvious uh you know blurring of definitions somewhere they're bluring uh where do you stop with your ESG considerations like I met a client whom I gave uh fun because he wanted to be uh invested only the ESG space so I gave him options to invest in ESG SP he asked for the portfolios I showed him the portfolios well he saw one farma company and he said I'm not going to go with this uh fund because this has this Pharma company I said well Pharma is right as he said no they must be doing animal testing so as an investor where do you stop with your ESG considerations you can go as deep as possible and as I told you there are bluring of lines so I don't read too much into it and certainly as investment advisers I would like to to keep my options open rather than being uh you know with a with a with my blinkers just be focused on only one thing uh so that's what I believe uh is that thing so we spoke about quite a few things we spoke about Trends in India's wealth creation industry we spoke about the different aspirations from one generation to the next gen we spoke about the fact that perhaps the next gen is more techsavvy is looking at things differently compatibility matters for them it's it's also about change positivity is very very tied to what they want to do let us talk about some numbers here mathematics here ultimately the heart of employing or getting on board or wealth manager is that you have a certain return expectation in mind if I'm your client a family upwards of 10 CR in a and I come to you that listen I mean this is my next Generation coming in but I have a certain return expectation so what it's at hurdle rate for private Equity is essentially about 6 to 8% I think it's 8 to 10 in a good Market but I'm not sure how much has delivered on those TR it's mostly disappointing run uh but really for the wealth managers and especially talking about Indian Rich families I really want to understand because you are looking at families upwards of 10 CR which would be many right which is which is not a very limited pool of wealth there I mean I think uh from and I think you also catering to a number which will also be in tier two tier three cities in this country are still a person running a steel mill will have that kind of family Rich right I mean 10 CRS or eight CRS right uh so I want to understand that what is the return expectation some of these promoters or families have and are they Savvy enough in their conversations with wealth managers do they know what to expect from a wealth manager is the level of sophistication there yes I think sha you have uh asked me to address the elephant in the room which is the returns it always boils down to it right so let me tell you how we reverse engineering uh obviously uh we are not into the game of assuring returns or not in the game of even but of course there has to be some uh some mathematics behind it as you rightly pointed out so we start in a way where we say and and and Sh you pointed it perfectly when you said what are the return expectations now to Define your return expectation is something which is so important that people don't understand because people often compare with the markets people have a benchmark in that in their mind but probably their risk appetite is not tuned to take those kind of risks that The Benchmark is delivering now that the Benchmark is not necessarily Nifty The Benchmark can be my CF friend has generated 22% last year yeah I mean we don't know about the Benchmark right so what we do is that we and very importantly we ask a client to Define his RR TT LL R is what is his return objective what returns make him happy uh and is it 9% is he happy the entire world is getting 15 and he's getting nine but he is also uh you know ecstatic if the entire world is falling by 10 and he's still making nine I mean that 9% does it make him happy 12% does it make him happy or even 18% doesn't make him happy right so that's something that we ask him to Define with a very set of pointed questions plus open-ended discussions the second thing the second R over here uh is your risk tolerance how do I act you know so people's risk tolerance when you meet a client when everything's hunky to they said I'm a risk taker I'm an aggressive profile client the moment the market Falls by 15% he asks you why did you put in this risky category his risk profile changes overnight right um and then when you become defensive as per his feedback and the markets run up he's the first one to call you so in my opinion A lot of people do not know their risk tolerance and that it's for advisers like us not to take them on face value uh in our case you know we believe the client is always not right okay so we don't take anyone on face value we try to un and that's where we our our relationship skills the knowledge of Behavioral Finance um how it affects an individuals the individuals biases uh we try to slowly slowly are those biases that a result of cognitive issues are those biases biases a result of emotional issues what are the reasons and we try to probe deeper and deeper and we are in no hurry we don't say Sir we need the money today the markets are going to run it's always a case of consultative advisory where we walk hand inand with the client we try to we really become a partner uh and that's what we can assure yeah suppose you're managing my pool of faster just giving you an example I'm in a PO Jal list just like hypothetically I can feel happy five minutes but I'm supp that's an understatement but I you for face value this [Laughter] time so so uh so you have a relationship with Distributors on the public market side and you have relationship with fund manager the private Market side so you make money off me as a client and you also make money off the distributor how does the model work for you so you make money both ways or is it only client no we always make money one way it has to be either or also we have to be completely transparent with what is the client's expense not only what I have made but what is the client's overall expense it's very important because when the expenses are embedded a lot of people don't realize is what so sometimes and we have this problem in India particularly uh where a lot of clients are okay with not making money not making money but they're not okay with the advisers earning 50 basis points and then okay that's a that's a behavioral pattern and a change that we ought to look I've met a client who had 150 cross parked in 185 different schemes of mutual funds goes without saying that he had made nothing in the preceding seven years five years three years while the Nifty had generated 91% per anom at the point of time when I had met him right and he He was largely into equities uh you know what was his happiness question I have done direct investment that that was the only so uh that was this utility Factor uh so for us I think we are very clear uh we also tell our clients that expertise always comes with a cost right absolutely it's not always that I take a paracetamol Doo 650 whenever I have fever there are deeper things we need to analyze and understand that if the fever is recurring why am I getting it right and that's where we come point was uh pratique that is the level of sophistication there to understand that wealth managers like you all come on with a certain cost that sophistication is not there that's what I'm trying to understand the traditional investors the previous generation rich people do not have that sophistication the younger guys have it the global guys have it uh not everyone when I meet clients in Dubai and the Middle East I see a lot of multi-millionaires um having invested their monies in uh in American treasury bonds when the yields were at the lowest and they actually took a loan from the bank so they financed the investment and they leveraged and put three times the money and obviously the eeld went North so they have lost not only 20% on their own Capital but they had to keep putting money from their pocket just to service the loan right it so sometimes glossy things sell sometimes projections sell sometimes when you talk things which people don't understand it sometimes people go and make things more complicated that the client doesn't understand anything about it and he thinks oh what a great conversation I had this guy knows his stuff let's put money into this from our perspective sha we believe in kisss not the literal sense of it but keeping it short and simple simp right we believe in open-ended stuff we believe in tax efficient stuff and while private markets private credits there are definite advantage and we discussed it earlier in this meeting we would like to stick to open-ended ways of making money for the client as much as possible deep down within we all believe in the eighth wonder of the world called power of compounding and that's what we yeah so basically the the average portfolio pratique would be about the chunk will go to public markets some money will go to private markets and some to philanthropy or how is it Public Market still as a l yeah I think uh anyone whose score doesn't come as an aggressive client we will not invest a single Buck or we will not really uh talk about or we will not really add any private Equity private market products uh in our offerings to him right uh anyone who is aggressive and clearly understands the risk and by aggression I don't mean to say necessarily he wants 18% returns but the bent of mind he's okay with volatility because all these private markets have their own issues because the past data is sometimes stale the past data has undergone regime change so you cannot project it into you know making those glossy projections in the future uh the past data is smoothed right so these are issues that there are there so you need experts to actually analyze I see the markets flooded with lot of uh Structured Products uh unsecured lending uh etc etc I mean we can name it and it will go all on and on but to make someone understand the risk and the guy understands it and so I'm not okay with investor I just trust you I'm going to put my money I don't like such things you know I want not him to trust me of course that factory is always there he trusts me across absolutely understand the risks what can be the downfall was saying yeah sure uh you know I think the Holy Grail is as allocation you know if you if you get asset allocation right I think everything can fall in place you know so you know the first discussion that itself that we would want to have with the clients after you know we have established rrtt llu is the is the base asset allocation that you know we want to create for the client and you know if if that falls in place then everything will will kind of eventually work out so that's that's that's something that we really really believe in sorry I didn't tell you the r l full form I must tell you for your AUD objective the return objective that taxation the time Horizon the liquidity needs legal issues if he has any to invest in something and unique preferences so these are the seven things that we really look at before uh trying to even talk on lines of what he can have in his portfolio what is your Fe like 50 baps 1.5 2% what is it it entirely depends on the amount of work that we have to put behind a client if it's just about uh a end of the day managing a mutual fund portfolio for for a client then I think so we have the distributor model we tell the clients that everything goes in our broker code we don't there is no question of uh ethically or regulations wise charging you anything over and above that uh so that's it we manage the mutual funds portfolio we tell him the expense ratios uh we show him what offerings we have uh if he has any unique preferences we take it into consideration and then so there's obviously then you understand it's all embedded and Inu but with knowledge of the client uh when it comes to uh the business uh offshore abroad then we have platforms uh which have u a fixed fee charge where we try to keep everything um take exposures into Global markets through the ETF routs or uh you know through very lowcost institutional funds route where exp so we try to cap the expenses expenses and I'm not talking about my fee I try to cap the expenses for all my clients at 2% uh so overall I believe a client shouldn't be pay I believe the client should be paying more than 2% to invest his monies in okay I think now we have to talk a little specifics we we've got an overview about the industry tell me about the beginning of startup investing and how crystallized that is uh especially with this entire Shark Tank phenomenon that is happening now entrepreneurship and venture investing has become a dinner table conversation so you really think that there's sophistication to understand that it can become one and zero right at a very early stage of startup investing are we seeing more preferences where people want to invest into these uh risky and unlisted Ventures what is the sense people are certainly interested okay that interest component is there which wasn't there earlier I mean with respect to the numbers I'm talking about let's talk about how much we have been able to mobilize as a country I think this year half of it we have just been able to get about 2021 billion in VC investing um compared to the first I'm talking the first six months in 2023 I don't have the data for I mean we are in November so after December probably we'll have the data for the next six compare this to the previous year uh probably we were about 40 billion so it's halfed there was definitely a surge in both availability of opportunities availability of funds as well as investor interest postco okay uh it has today flattened a bit and probably I attribute it to the global headwinds that we have high inflation uh cost of uh you know Capital has gone up etc etc uh but you know uh so over on an average we have seen about $60 billion of deal value that has been you know unlocked in every year since 2020 so that's a very big number if you compare it with say 2015 to 2020 okay now why I mean people want to gain access to Technologies and ideas which are new to them uh they think that larger companies are not really Nimble footed so smaller companies are adaptable they're Nimble footed so they want to go with such kind of uh they think that smaller companies have lower costs and hence the bottom line is higher um they believe that uh you know they want they have the need to back an entrepreneur because it's from a you know known Circle or they believe in the cause where again the ESG consideration may or may not come into the picture they want some skin in the game uh so it's an aspirational need really and it is definitely there uh now again from a client's perspective although when he's investing in the public market he's still investing in a business right but he thinks I'm investing in a stock but in a private Market I'm investing in a business that's the mindset right although he's investing in a business in both the cases but his thought process the weightage of him investing in a business that thought the weightage of thought is much higher in a in a private Market uh then of of course there's been crowdfunding impact investing rise of number of aifs that have been there in the offering um they believe high risk High return so all these things have I think uh today made people uh more and more I don't know interested towards the private markets we have to really see sh because I I'm a Believer in uh seeing some results okay uh because the unicorns and we spoke about them earlier how many of them could follow up with the good performance how many new uh in promoters are actually interested in running a business for the long term is something that we have to see because most of the promoters also from 2020 has got into the this mindset I have to just jack up the valuation someone and make an exit so you want people who really have skill in the game who want longterm so it's a path that we have to walk I you guys have been involved you guys have been involved in some of these conversations I mean they have some of these proposals have come to the table be like pre IO funding or startup funding or or you think your clientele is not into that space right now so much from I won't say from the clientele perspective we have also not not been largely comfortable okay and again it comes to the basic thing of rtt llu if a client is Happy making 12% returns uh I don't believe that I have to bring on on the table something which will lock in his money for the longer term with a larger amount of uncertainty fair but again for S investors it's a different story yeah sorry go yeah I want to come to your classification of investors let's talk about the India peace and then I'll go to International pce in India peace 10 CR plus family wealth so how much of that is also coming from tier two tier three cities give me a composition I mean not much for us sha because we have not uh we have always been a believer that we don't want to spread ourselves too thin uh although we have sizable number of clients from Kapur uh but that is thanks to one of her uh you know employees and now she's also a part stakeholder uh who hails from Kapur uh she herself is from a uh from a family of hnis and she has a lot of people in the circle whom she could kind of talk to and then we had a good uh conversation with all the clients in kapu we kept an event and some but apart from Kapur we really don't have too many people from Tier Two Cities uh and I'm not saying that that's signaling anything it's just saying that we have not been able to tap into that market uh and a lot of people are doing good job in that uh and I'm sure most of our clients at this point of time are from Mumbai followed by uh offshore markets uh a lot of them are from the US from UK from other parts uh and then Puna Kapur Bangalore of course a few from Kolkata uh frankly I would have loved to break into Kolkata that' be my home City I spent 16 first 16 years of my life over there but I couldn't I couldn't I met a lot of people I couldn't I I I feel there's a very stronghold of age-old good marari family advisers over there marari West into that yeah so I think this this bracket that you spoke for I think it's a very sweet spot with six to 10 crores it will also include salaried wealth right the salary wealth also become essentially cxos in the late 50s uh nowadays of course cxos earn much higher but I'm talking about people yeah yeah absolutely um so allow me to come to you and present our proposition very soon shria uh so I'm wishing the best for you U yeah so coming back to it I think yeah lot of cxos but lot of owners lot of owners are there and by cxo see we Thrive when people are knowledgeable in front of us so a bank cxo someone who is a private Equity Fund manager these are the client that we have and we love them because meaningful conversations and they have probably a a a h of private managers sitting right across the street right across the office uh and they're still talking to us which gives us a different kind of a pleasure understood now I also now we getting towards the end of this conversation I I kind of understood about 3Q private wealth I've gotten a fair understanding and idea of where you operate which sweet spot you want to operate in the entire sort of emerging of Dubai if you will as International Hub of capital mobilization I know a lot of my friends in the so-called private markets rity in the public markets R it is really sort of moving to Dubai as the the epicenter where a lot of global alliances a lot of mobilization and and what I understand also is that uh the investors from Middle East are very keenly looking at India especially in pre-ipo invest there seems to be fascination with the India story just given our growth numbers and where we are the entire Emerging Markets basket uh give me a sense of this investor this International asset investor especially the Middle East you also the families and yeah uh all the rich families they deal with family office guys they have one family office guy sitting in their in their office who is 99.99% of times at Indian uh okay uh so they are interested in India and that has to do a a lot with how the governments have worked together how the international policies have been uh how the Friendship has grown between these two countries um you have to understand that right from 1960s I mean before even UAE was formed Indians formed a major chunk of this economy okay today if you look at uh Dubai economy more than 50 55% are Indians okay and uh most of them are business owners uh most of them have set up their businesses in' 70s 60s 80s especially the textile Merchants who are the real rich people in Dubai um the modern entrepreneurs are more in the tech space uh very few of them are in the space that I am in or we are in uh but there are a lot of external and they call them external asset managers who basically refer clients to private Banks um uh but someone doing full-fledged advisory is something that uh I have not across uh too much to be honest with you but there there are a lot of people offering this now with respect to the clients um while clients are definitely interested in indiaa but there is a mindset because they still believe that most of their wealth should be invested in a developed market so if I look at the portfolios of the clients probably 80% of the monies are in developed markets the new more monies are going to India okay and this Awakening has happened much later than I mean compared to the US counterparts the US nris I think from day one since 20156 we have seen a lot of flows they have been very interested in India for usn they are also talking can we divest or divert our Ira money into Indian funds you know much like the PF money they have their choice of investing the but with the gulf nris uh of nris have their monies invested but I'm talking about non nris uh even within naly I think the sizable portion of the wealth is still in the dollar market uh but the change is emminent and I it is showing today because especially because they've lost out in the last three years in the India growth and now people believe that this decade belongs to India and that's been well advertised okay sades I would like to hear from you and now it's the last question if you were to some crystal ball gazing talking about the India's wealth creation industry we spoke about the opportunity give me a sense of what really are the Red Flags or the short-term concerns or challenges if you will that you see I mean of course we on the path of five trillion wealth sort of creation and even if we don't get to that number by 025 positively by 027 there's a definite kind of intent to get there or what Chile do you think could be a short-term challenge I come to you and then I C on to prik yeah sure uh so see you know all of us agree that uh the longterm looks really good but of course there there's got to be some challenges so I will talk about some challenges from a regulatory perspective you know uh I think it's it's uh you would have heard a whole debate about uh ra versus the mfds or you know which is investment advisers versus mutual fund Distributors you know uh I think we it's it's still very very nent uh for India to look at such divers I mean such demarcation you know right now we are so underpenetrated you know we are less than 10% uh people investing into Capital markets I think uh the first aspect has to be to broaden this base you know when when we look at uh you know developed markets you have 40 50 60% of the people investing into Capital markets so as India we have to reach that space you know so uh some I mean we should enable this journey then to get into regulations that who can do what and this can do what so and so forth so uh the once the regulatory huddle is kind of pasted uh we will see uh more and more people coming to Capital markets but you know I think to me uh we will still on that journey and you know we'll take some time so for me that's that's the biggest hurdle that I see from a regulatory point of view uh it's it's good you know SE is doing a great job of educating invest aw progr uh the whole campaign of mutual fund say so yes there is one one side which is in the right direction which is uh from a from a knowledge perspective but on the other side people who are giving this Services uh I mean there should be more incentives towards that so that's that's what I feel okay pratique what about you from the perspective of challenges that India has I think there are many uh one is the demographics as we discussed ear that can be a boon and a ban because creating those many jobs every year is really a challenge for any government second thing and I'll be blunt about is is something called fake activism uh I think uh there's a lot of fake activism that happens in India and this stall projects and we have seen recent fi file again against some leading noos and who stall a lot of dams and so we'll not get into details or politics about it but it is definitely a case attempts by external forces to create unrest in India these will be issues that India have to face it on um election as a event everyone kind of asks me at the end of the meeting how big do you think the election is going to be I keep saying I keep saying that it's the developments that have happened in India the structural changes that have happened in India in the last few years it's not like a genie that you can put it back in the bottle okay so it's a mammoth the Indian economy it's going to roll by its own of course that doesn't mean that there won't be shocks in between and event if it is unexpected if it is unfavorable if it is something that people don't want it doesn't mean that they'll not beat down the markets there will definitely be some hammering in the shorter R but from the growth perspectives of India and in the midterm to longterm really looks good this decade definitely looks good I don't have enough information to talk about what will happen Beyond six seven eight years as of now there's a push towards infrastructure there's a push towards Innovation and I look at these as very key sectors uh despite the recent regulatory changes I still Banking and Financial system in the country will lead the uh you know rally because that's the backbone of Na economy uh challenges will remain sh and we have seen so many challenges we have seen so many governments we have seen hung Parliament we have seen a Carill War uh we have seen what not we have seen a pandemic thankfully now that is also there and we have seen a financial Market collapse uh international issues uh Wars in other countries but I think uh India has managed to do pretty well when those structural changes are not there in place now imagine when the structural changes are there in place uh then then then what can uh India do the the only issue I see sha is can India grow in isolation can India tap into the China plus one grth story really and not only depending on the demographics because today A lot of people are looking at India in Le of China because they feel the demographics will help us sell a lot more internally I think from supply chain uh to Logistics everything should be tied with very sound technology what China managed to do in that decade which where India kind of faltered and this decade I believe if the push that's at this point of time that's showing uh it's right now on the surface if it digs deeper and we really can establish the semiconductor PL that we are talking about uh the AI and Robotics that we talk about uh I think India will have a great ticket because see from infrastructure perspective I'm very clear uh there is so much that's going to happen on the infrastructure part uh I mean I can talk endlessly about it I mean 143 lakh cross between 2024 to 2030 uh I mean that's the expectation it will double to those kind of numbers where is the money going to go how many jobs it's going to create uh so yeah despite the challenges I feel it's good US market or the developed economies will go through challenges not the broader markets but In Pockets yes uh the interest rates will stay elevated in my opinion they're not going to go back to 0% very soon um and that is where RBI has to step in and think that you know can we look at only India and soften the rates or do we have to still because it is very difficult to remain independent okay uh otherwise it will impact the markets so high inflation how longer is it going to impact the developed markets because in India it's pretty much under control as of now we see and we are used to these kind of rates right I mean on that note it is good to sort of wind up that India is on a positive growth trajectory concerns that can that growth remain sort of be in isolation but having sort of said all of that I think the Crux really is that we have really proven our resilience with so many setbacks and shocks that happened I mean Co was really one of that and perhaps we just emerged stronger and emerged antifragile as Nicholas talb talks about it so thank you pratique and S of sides I heard less of you sides but pratique and sides thank you for joining in we should have more of this talking about India's wealth creation asset allocation westship preferences and so on thank you so much