Transcript for:
Green Hydrogen Ports: Policy and Practice

ladies and gentlemen a very warm welcome to today's Dialogue on green hydrogen ports from policy to practice my name is Sonia quoting furster I'm an advisor at gizet working on bilateral energy Partnerships and jointly with my colleague of band from the international hydrogen ramp up program H2 up at yazad we are very happy to guide you through the next two exciting hours of today green hydrogen and green derivatives as you all know are key elements to decarbonize industrial production and diversify energy Imports as Germany's demand for green hydrogen will outweigh the local Supply options Germany will need to import green hydrogen and PTX products in order to do this ports will play a crucial role in the global hydrogen and PTX trade so far various memorandums of understanding mousse was signed to implement bilateral hydrogen Partnerships between different ports however today we want to understand a bit better what has happened since these signatures of the mous what are the next steps for the delivery namely the export and the impact import of the derivatives and how can we enable further distribution of hydrogen to the industrial off takers the so-called last mile delivery for this we are delighted to welcome distinguished speakers from the public and private sector from Berlin Hamburg Bremen and wilhelms Hoffman as well as from Uruguay Morocco Norway and Brazil and with this I hand over to my colleague then thank you Sonia so I'm very happy to join you also a very warm welcome also from my side my name is Rolf parent and together with Sonia coach enforcer we will happily guide you through today's event it's great to see so many people online so I pray to see that actually the the theme is interesting for so many people um a couple of housekeeping issues before we start uh marks are muted we're happy to collect your questions please post them online ideally us with your name and organization and we'll definitely call them up we are trying to make this as interactive as possible so we will take questions after we will have four rounds of technical presentations we're happy to take questions after each round and make sure that really these are your questions this is your session and then afterwards we will have a panel discussion with all speakers at the very end um we will record the session I mean this is standard practice today so if you want to don't mind being recorded happy to stay on otherwise you'll probably have to jump off but you probably used to that anyway uh with apps enough housekeeping let me hand over to our keynote speaker I would like to introduce our Mr Dr Christian stores the head of division from the German Federal Ministry for economic Affairs and climate action the German Ministry for climate action is sponsoring this event it's sponsoring this program but it is actually one of the most important sponsors for climate change in all of Germany uh the BMV calls to sponsors the H2 Global that I've been asked about globally many cases it sponsors also many other funding programs really to support the hydrogen ramp up uh so it's like our key Champion for our climate change to Germany was that Dr Christian storst over to you the floor is yours thank you Sonia thank you Rolf and good morning good afternoon wherever you are in the world to this conference today is a day full of energy and today's event definitely shows that Germany is open to the world not only Harbor wise but also for hydrogen so I'm very glad that we have eight distinguished speakers today with us in this webinar and a big thank you to more than I see more than 80 participants or more than 100 even right now this very moment that we have today for sharing your ideas for sharing your insights and for your interest in setting up the scene for Germany's hydrogen ramp up in fact journey is aiming to become climate neutral over 2045 as you all know and wherever direct electrifications were possible in these Hearts to bait sectors green hydrogen and power to X are Central elements for our energy transition according to the current climate action status report and the national hybrid strategy Germany's domestic hydrogen consumption amounts actually to roughly 55 terabyte hours and is supposed to grow to double almost by 2030 so we forecast a demand hydrogen demand of about 90 to 130 kilowatt hours for the year 2030. and most of this demand is needed by Imports so as we will definitely not be able to produce all the hydrogen uh necessary within Germany or even with the neighboring countries this growing demand also for Harbor infrastructure we we broadcast the import demand and the the general share of imports to be around 70 percent by 2030. Germany will be open therefore or Imports for the world and we definitely almost five years from now I have been working on this we have energy Partnerships and hydrogen Partnerships with about 30 countries worldwide and we apparently work on this further in order to get also partners for our showcase program H2 Global which I'm in charge of simplistically the low generation costs of solar and wind energy and available land for implementing gigawatt projects will be needed in other parts of the world and we stand ready not only to export the nursery technology but also to help to set the framework legal framework the Practical framework and we have dsat luckily with us to also help consult the relevant experts on a worldwide scale so please feel free to take advantage of these offers as I said Germany has already started and continues to establish economic Partnerships with countries in which hydrogen can be produced efficiently and aims to systematically develop green hydrogen product projects and trade relations with other countries and we've discussed a lot of this throughout the betd the flagship event that has just taken place here in Berlin some of you have already seen in this event and all those didn't made it please take advantage of the next year's event ETD is really a flagship event also for hydro hydrogen remember okay meanwhile the progress with the national hydrogen strategy review in June 2020 as most of you actually are aware um the first strategy has been adopted and currently it's under revision Germany's national hydrogen strategy supports the development of markets for production the use of hydrogen through 38 measures and my Ministry has initiated a number of initiatives in this regard already in the upcoming revision we believe that the task ahead is a global One International Exchange and Partnerships are of great importance for the creation of global markets so we definitely aim at establishing further energy Partnerships and deepening the political dialogue and also in cooperation for the cooperation with the private sector the international hydrogen rampa program so called H2 up program which the Federal Ministry finds us and which is implemented by glz um complements this political dialogue just mentioned through its bottom approach H2 app works with companies on the other identification and preparation of projects in the early stage of project development and it also brings together Financial actors Germany provides already by now various targeted support programs and funding instruments to support the scale-up of international green hydrogen projects at different stages such as H2 Global the PTX Development Fund and the funding guideline for hydrogen so to conclude drone is aware that infrastructure and especially overseeing ports will play a crucial role in the global trade and transport of hydrogen and PTX products thoughts are the bridges between those countries producing and exporting green hydrogen and those supporting and conceiving ports are the key element in the H2 and power takes value chain they are the focal points to sample and process the export respectively to receive and process for distribution supporting global trade business three for Germany to achieve its climate goals therefore Germany's approaching these challenges with different measures and supporting mechanisms and we look forward for today's webinar to exchange ideas and how we could do better which programs we should defend in the upcoming production 3 negotiations and where we might learn from others from other countries such as the US and Canada just working on their support schemes but I think Europe and Germany especially have a lot to uh bring forward also in this respect and please take advantage of these offers take advantage of GSAT and now I would like to hand over to my colleagues to moderate us through this seminar I wish all of you a very successful afternoon thank you thank you Dr storghast for setting the stage of today's events your ministry has indeed been very busy in terms of developing a global hydrogen market and let's dive into the discussion we have all seen the news articles last year about mou's that were signed for the import respectively the export of green hydrogen and in order to shed some light of how these mius are being implemented we will hear from an importer namely the Hamburg Port Authority as well as from an exporter the national Port Administration in Uruguay and dear participants online please post your questions in the chat we will try to address them after the presentations and now let's hand over to our second speaker of today she is currently serving as an environmental strategist for the Hamburg Port Authority since 2018. Linda hashtad and she's been involved in several Port infrastructure projects such as building hydrogen economy in the port of Hamburg and is presently leading efforts to establish a green shipping Corridor between Canada and Hamburg Linda thank you very much for being here the floor is yours thank you zanya yeah um as mentioned today I brought the topic of hydrogen and we use and that's implementation and from an improper importer perspective or from a handbook or from from a Port Authority perspective um just one question um the presentation will be shared right because I cannot see it yes no problem just give us a second the technical team will share the presentation yeah thank you yeah maybe we can just directly start with the next slide so um in order to find the right way when it comes to a hydrogen mous and we had to understand our own role in the hydrogen economy so as I'm a Port Authority since we are the largest German C Port our main duties are maintaining the infrastructure and the port so land side to the streets the railways as well as water site we are responsible for safe navigation the port as well as for the land property so we are land owner and we are renting out our land to private companies so when it comes to the hydrogen economy we do not operate our own terminals in the port and we do not carry or sell any Goods so our role is actually more an enabler role so we are using our land resources for Brownfield and Greenfield projects So Greenfield projects are more on a long-term basis we are focusing currently on Brownfield projects so using existing infrastructure companies processes in the port to implement the hydrogen economy in Hamburg So based on this situation in our port and in Hamburg we were thinking how can we use pod corporations to support the hydrogen economy in our ports so today I brought the example of our cooperation with the port of Halifax the next slide please so that one this cooperation is actually based on the Canadian German and hydrogen Alliance which was set up previous year so just one month later the representative of the port of Halifax and the port of handbook they signed an own mou so the product Halifax is just one port we are starting with so but we in General open to any ports but in this case for us that it's an advantage to have our national governments in the back and have them or their commitment is fundamental for our work so the mou's were signed how did we actually come to action how can we Implement um yeah the mousse so we decided to set a goal to set a green ship in Corridor by 2025. on the next slide please so the time frame of 2025 was already said by the hydrogen Alliance of Canada of Canada and Germany so we at Sports we decided to focus on the value chain approach for us it is important to not see this industry as an isolated industry but to focus on the whole value chain so we thought about how can we export have an influence and support so therefore we set three yeah sub topics so on the one hand it will be the transport of hydrogen or derivats from Halifax to Hamburg next to this the port infrastructure for bunkering for us it is important in the value chain approach to ensure that actually the green goods are still green when they are in Hamburg so therefore we need to ensure that the hydrogen or derivats are transported green to Germany and um to supply the appropriate infrastructure for this a third point we want to increase or create the local awareness in our cities and aroundings so how can we or together with affordable for the with the port of Halifax we had a workshop how can we actually come into action to implement these goals so when it comes to the transport of hydrogen we decided to look into um the feasibility on board so to look into the technical the operational and the economic feasibility so we want to get an Insight how do future ships will look like what are their sizes are they allowed to come into our Port where do they where can they go in our ports how will be the bunker habits in the future for example what kind of infrastructure we need to provide this is something we want to get an insight when it comes to concrete bunker infrastructure reports we set the goal to conduct a real risk analysis at or for one birth on our ports and when it comes to locals we want to take the locals with us we want to increase our communication and be open and transparent about our activities in the port so during this process we identified already a key stakeholders we need for our board cooperation and these are the shipping companies since they are the Transporters of hydrogen so they are really the key stakeholders we need to get on board next to this or which are more critical stakeholders are the local authorities so this might be the fire brigade the water police and local environmental authorities they give or in the future they will give the permission for these activities and reports and yeah it's important to get them from the beginning on board in order that they have the chance to create own expertise or knowledge about the topic and to be ready for gift Commission yeah next slide please so during the last month what we learned so far in this project together with the port of Halifax is that um we always will go for the value chain approach to look at the whole value chain and to take every stakeholder needed with us to be on the same page and just to ensure a green life cycle so that the green product which is going from exporting is still green when we get it in Germany and the end user in the end so so far when it comes to stakeholders for us the shipping companies are the essential stakeholders we are starting we are currently in the process process of contacting different shipping companies to get an insight about their decarbonization strategies and Future Fuels they weigh how to implement this and to start cooperating with them and the early identification and the engagement of the critical stakeholders these are mainly the local permitting authorities to give them the chance to prepare also to be ready to give permission so this is so far um what we are doing together with the port of Halifax and the current status thank you thank you Linda for sharing it with us how I really liked the term that you used enable how you enable the hydrogen economy through the entire value chain that's very impressive um now I would like to hear the perspective of an exporter before we start with a few questions so dear participants feel free to post your questions in the chat and now I would like to hand over to our third speaker Mr Andres Mito he's a civil engineer specialist in transport and he's the national Port system manager of the national Port administration of Uruguay and professor of Transport engineering and ports at the University of Montevideo good morning Andres um thank you so much for joining can you tell us a little bit about mousse that you have signed perhaps what have been some of the challenges in implement printing the mou so what happens after signature to bring it to practice the floor is yours we can't hear you yet so please unmute yourself hello you hear me yes wonderful and now we can hear you the floor is yours hello hello Andres we can hear you okay you know what why sort out the technical problems can you hear us now hello good morning good morning okay you know what and let's sort out the technical problems in the background no problem can you hear me yes we can hear you I saw that there has been a question in the chat to Linda perhaps we can address this first if it's okay for you Linda there was the question who will deliver the green hydrogen are there any agreements that are signed with the hydrogen producers or suppliers yeah um who will deliver it so I would say it's not limited just to one um hello Eva can you hear me um so as far our status is that um also in Canada they're still busy with um building um renewable or plans for the production of renewable energy so they also at the beginning of starting setting up the whole actually also they're all the whole value chain from the exporters point of view so they are now starting um building uh wind Mills to produce um the the green energy or the green um yeah energy to produce a hydrogen and then starting exporting it so it's not limited to one company so there will be several companies in the future who will sell um the energy to European countries or to Germany so one company which um is involved in our project as the company of everwind they are strongly or quite close located through the port of Halifax and they are strongly working together with the pot of Halifax so just um to give one name of example it will be ever wind one of them but there will be several more thank you for that it helps us greatly to understand that the the challenge indeed in hydrogen is the complexity of the chain and connecting producers and here the port has to the export and here the port has an important role to play um let me continue to submit well we will try to find results and technical issues with Mr Nieto and perhaps to take him back um bring them back in later for the moment let us continue and since we're discussing really how to connect producers and exporters let us go let me take the next stage and go to the next block in the next panel of the ports themselves and here the question is how what do the ports need to do how do they need to organize themselves really to make sure that they are able to accept process and then transport the hydrogen into ships uh and with that I will we have two uh two panelists really one is the receiving Port View and one is the sending port view let me start off with Brim off everybody knows Hamburg but Birmingham Germany has more ports and Bremer Hafner is trying to compete also with a far larger Hamburg and for this purpose I'd like to introduce Mr or Dr Lar stemler from Braven uh thank you for joining us good to see you uh you look form um you look still it looks like Bremen is still fairly cold because you're still really warmly dressed I hope the brim will warm up eventually but I mean we're really happy to have you because you've got a really great experience in Maritime Logistics you have the PHD actually in Port policy so you really know the the technical details of actually how to bring ports together so we're very happy you've joined us so please tell us more of how Brandon Watson had to create its um port and actually provide competition to not just Hamburg but Rotterdam as well to share my presentation please and maybe you go straight to the second slide um having said that also a warm welcome from my side I would like to take you to uh Bremen bremerhafen to Port one city basically and uh well I would like to expand the topic a little bit and really addressing the the issue uh as the headline of the session says creating hubs basically well on the next slide um first clear advice from our side um be clear about what you want to achieve and by when basically and and when I mean what to what you want to achieve I really mean the decarbonization targets either set by Martin multilateral bodies like the IMO for example or the uh the federal targets or even the targets set by by your own Community uh given the fact that the ports under the Earth species of the federal states in Germany it is here the freehanded ethic city of baymen and with this layered approach so focusing on the part Management on on The Wider part area which is the actually the Pod itself including the terminals and all the auxiliary Services as well as a wider pod Community or pod industry including all the the maritime Logistics provide us and the clients you've got a multitude of stakeholders to address and and our experience is here simply talk talk um what to talk about on the next slide on the emphasis is really that pods are not only there to import or export any form of energy be it green hydrogen or be it PTX or whatever we also have to take into account the production of in particular electrical energy by means of solar or wind and the usage of this energy in the Pod itself so we've got these functional Dimensions multiplied by the number of stakeholders as per the previous slide for example and you've got you you judge the the scale of the problem I wouldn't say complex I would rather say complicated um the feedback loops to make it complex presented on the next slide um because Bremen as comparable to Hamburg is a landlord part so the land in bloom and including the the harbor basins and and all related Marine infrastructures like locks is owned and operated by the federal state I.E by brand Imports and on top of the logistical installations here in red are owned and operated by the terminal operators which were under lentilies or concession agreements and that's pretty easy to grasp but the nitty-gritty comes in when you consider the the grid for example which you need to integrate all the three functions uh I just outlined I.E production of electrical energy in the port consumption as well as facilitating any form of import or export so electrical grid that's one side pipelines are the other and here you've got various uh various interests to address uh in particular also the the local utility which might operate the grid [Music] um so it brings in also kind of public stakeholders a stakeholder which up to today's Times not that used to uh to the maritime where it was not exposed to the maritime world as pod operator was so quite a number of questions to address um from our side the the most challenging at the moment in terms of local usage of energy is shown on the next slide um we did a an analysis of the energy flows and it's actually the diesel consumption we have it's not not so much about importing hydrogen that would be a next step but first we wanted to be clear about what is the potential of an energy collaborations basically uh in our pod itself so it was the diesel bit and uh step by step our tenants are the the terminal operator starting to Electrify and this gives really a great potential great opportunities to integrate all three functions and um yeah what the the final lessons really to uh to list the role Linda pointed out it should be in an apla and I completely agree to that um Illustrated on the next slide so we have got the role to Focus really on on the needs of the port on our tenants say smart grid operation in terms of electrical energy um focusing on the need to facilitate the use of import export and the overlapping interests become clear um because of the the energy it's not fossil fuels which have completely different properties but here we talk about the options also to decentralize energy production and energy usage of course in terms of Electrical uh generators electrical consumption and this was great opportunities and coming back to my initiating uh claim it's talk talk as in an enabler we have to integrate our stakeholders it's no longer the old business model of hitting the public procurement size on the internet and saying we've got an area here which is open for lentilies and and then the the office come in notes far more than that uh in terms of attracting uh tenants or of the the energy business uh you have to be clear about your own options the the local business models uh on top of those business models that shall be facilitated by attracting uh any attendance of the industry to your own thought so conclusion here is uh far more than uh than in the past we have to take into account um the requirements of the stakeholders and try to balance the the different interests here as an active enabler as an active part Authority thank you yes thank you Lawrence I mean this is uh I think an honest thing is very happy that you're reminding us that there's just a huge number of different types of logistics to be resolved in different times of fuels and electricity and heat and everything needs to combine which makes it actually a much more complex exercise than purely linking to hydrogen that's um well done and uh keeping us on the ground actually is much more complex than perhaps we just think um that was the receiving side uh so let me now introduce the next speaker the sending side and here we have I'm very proud that we have somebody representing Morocco to join us this is Noah Nabil uh from the Emerson The Institute on the lancitas which or translate means Institute form research on solar energy and new energy sources I'm very pleased that you're joining us today Morocco has already set up its own G green hydrogen hub uh so please um welcome also still a I'm very um happy Eid Mubarak now that we finish out the the fasting season thank you so much bro for the introduction and I'm happy to be with you today from uh Research Institute for solar energy and the new Energies um I think may I share my presentation or uh okay I can share it if it's I think well I think either way I think we're trying to make it uh centrally but I'm not sure if you shared if you didn't then go ahead share it to your side okay perfect you again buddy can you please switch to Total screen view okay perfect so um today I will just give you a brief insights about uh about the green hydrogen in Morocco and also the another view about uh uh infrastructures Port infrastructures here in Morocco so uh it is uh Marco is widely qualified to play an important role in the green hydrogen Market all over the world and furthermore it was being it has been identified by many International Studies as uh a quick candidate to host this uh Power 2x project and it was called the hybrid one uh given its uh potential its high potential in terms of renewable energy that can reach us 26 gigawatt in terms of wind and uh and solar technical capacity we have also a string political support from our Majesty the kingdom the king Muhammad six uh recently um and he he has uh launched his directives of uh preparing hydrogen Moroccan offer uh also we have a successful deployment of renewable energy uh plants uh the example of words is that nor was that which is a big Power Plant which explains the expertise and also uh the qualified of the human capital also the growing of r d infrastructures uh in all over uh all the the country the the name of the green energy Park green and small building Park they are a dedicated r d platforms for testing uh training and also demonstrations in turn in in the field of in real new Energies uh we have also a local uh consumption or a local market for green hydrogen uh which is the industry applications in as the example of ocp which is the big player of fertilizer industry so they are a big consumer of ammonia ammonia is one of the derivatives of green hydrogen uh we have also a strong proximity to Europe and also a very strong connectivity uh with the with the menar vision Europe and also Asia uh and Africa uh throw uh Maritime and also throw pipes um so three important studies was conducted since 2018 and hydrogen part 2x in Morocco the first one was dedicated to Market and Technologies the second one was dedicated to Morocco potential and opportunities in terms of power 2X and also green hydrogen Market uh the last one that was published in 2021 is the national green hydrogen strategy uh that was conducted by the cabinet Frontier economics we have created also two entities the national hydrogen commission with the the the mission of uh of uh stitching up the legal framework of this green hydrogen economy and the green hydrogen cluster that gather all the private stakeholders that are present in the wool value chain of green hydrogen Morocco also signed an agreement with Germany in June 2020 to develop a regional market on power 2X and also recently in 2020 to Morocco signed an mou with the European Union to establish green Partnerships a partnership that also cover the energy sector as I mentioned before uh we had uh our our Majesty has a number six the king Mohammed six has given his instructions for the development of a Moroccan offer that's covered the entire value chain of hydrogen on the last November 2020 so in rabbat and now we have many stakeholders that are working on this offer that will gather many uh infrastructures policies and Technologies and also training this this committee is needed by the ministry in the ministry of energy transition and the sustainable development so the roadmap mainly of green hydrogen Morocco gives priority to export and also to use of hydrogen as a feedstock for the fertilizer industry and then other purities will come after uh for mobility and also for maritime and the aviation transport for the action plane the it focuses on three aspects or three pillars Technologies demand markets investment and supply and two main or principal action planes are the setting up of an industrial cluster and develop related infrastructure Master plane and the second one is to create the conditions for exporting power to its products from Morocco this came here came the the importance of port to be developed and also to be uh prepared for uh for for as a main principal infrastructure in work so for the green hydrogen cluster that gathered all the private sector or private companies in Morocco that are present in the world value chain and they are interested to develop this economy uh the main object is to promote a hydrogen sector uh support and Country throw supports and coordination of innovative collaborative projects and we have representatives from Ministries and also from other companies like Mazen uh Ami Siemens also NG ashdev aquapower Aqua group and also Jason hook and other universities and the Moroccan research centers the president of this green hydrogen cluster is Mr Muhammad and the cluster is divided into six committees the committee that is dedicated to research development and Innovation the other one is dedicated to renewable energy industry and the third one is dedicated to chemical industry and one other committee dedicated to projects that will be installed here in Morocco and the fifth uh committee is dedicated to International partnership and the last one is dedicated to energy transport and it which is leaded by uh onim which is the office National for hydrocarbons and the mines uh so uh the country's vision is to became original hub for green molecules trading Morocco's ambition is becoming as a safe key player in the export thanks to his Geographic position so ports uh of the kingdom are K links in the in the chains trade Logistics and constitute a labor important uh to develop economic and the social uh Social Development of the country uh so this this uh ports are covering the whole uh the World cast line of of Morocco as I will show you after here the um yes and I give you a 60 second warning yeah okay perfect I will quick uh speed up so the authorities that are uh present here uh in in the in the ecosystem of ports we have uh the ministry of equipment and water uh which is uh which is responsible for poor strategies the Moroccan Agency for port and TMS are which is responsible for regulations and policy port and Martha Morocco which is a private company Moroccan private company which is uh responsible for operational terminals uh as I uh are you senior in my map the global Port current offers is around a theoretical capacity of 20 20 100 million tons and it must be extended to support or to overcome the need of of other the need of uh shipping requirements and the strategy of perhaps was uh was settled up in order uh to uh you know in order to to develop regions and uh all over Morocco so several key factors provide strong growth in demand Port the national and sectoral policies that are being implemented intended to contribute to the economic and social development of the country valuing the proximity to Europe which offers potential for business and also the development of Hub Concepts here we see that we have six Hub one in the region of uh in the north which is mainly leaded by the notor port and the the poll also the Hub of north northwest which is leaded by tonji met and the other and other perhaps in in the region of Kenny track Casablanca and also in other and in the South we have three main ports that are uh already uh uh but we have an extension for the ports of which is located in the uh the South Hub this port will be dedicated I mean the last line this port will be dedicated mainly uh to uh to trading and also exports since we have a huge potential in terms of renewable uh wind and solar there thank you so uh this is just uh we're gonna have to skip it now yeah thank you thank you for your attention so thank you so the I mean honestly we want to I'm I I can understand why you have probably have so many other slides you have a lot to talk about and we would probably have to invite you for a separate session just to talk about Morocco alone it's just we have too many other speakers today but I'm very happy to see how much Morocco is really progressing and really having as many plans for hubs I have a question actually said to both of you to both and to Lars and I think we'll just to get some of the basics back is um when it comes to hydrogen um one of the key issues that perennial discussion is always and what are you going to be exporting or what are you going to be importing for that matter are you looking at liquid hydrogen is pneumonia is methanol or do you want to have hydrogen sulfur uh so in powder form sorry so let me start with no Halo yeah thank you I think uh first of all it depends on the off taker uh it depends on the it depends on the end user if it will be uh using a green ammonia or a green methanol or green steel so there are uh there are Market a wide Market of of green hydrogen and the transport option options is uh mainly dependent on the end user and the witches will be the main or or the relevant option for transport uh two infrastructures there are are in front of us pipes or Maritime or shipping shipping the the fuel so okay at the moment you're hatching all your bets you're doing everything okay for enough salars what is Bremer Hoffmann doing completely agree it was no Ilias so we are currently looking into various options we've got a large steel plant on the part of Bremen which is supposed to be connected to a pipeline but we as a part operator we would like to provide a backbone so most probably we talk about um hydrogen in a pressurized form pure and pressurized um we do look into a methanol um to supply existing local at the moment fossil fuel driven distribution networks as well as our local bunkering supplies um but what we are not keen on is ammonia basically so um that's that's in a nutshell okay so we could probably continue this discussion for an hour I can tell you we've had so many questions from participants in that regard safety infrastructure who buys who sells um unfortunately I'm gonna have to hand over to Sonia so and just because we still have another four even five speakers to follow otherwise we will just run out of time so thank you luhela so talk to Quran and thank you Lars thank you wife thank you dear speakers and we will try to address the questions from the audience in the panel discussion later on but as I've said let's move on to the next part of this webinar let's talk money making ports hydrogen ready we all know require significant funds and to gain some insights into key aspects for investments into hydrogen Port terminals from the private sector we are very pleased to welcome hartmond Baya from HPC Hamburg Port Consulting as our speaker today he is an Industrial Engineer with three decades of experience in Port Consulting and he did not only work in Europe but also in Asia and Africa and we therefore share all his experience with us in today's webinar he is the authorized representative of HPC Hamburg Port Consulting and part even of the co-funding management team and he contributes to strategy Concepts and funding Consulting for Waterway transport and Intermodal Logistics systems hat moods the floor is yours Sonia thank you very much for this um kind introduction let me just look to give you a chance to see my my presentation I hope you can see it now so yeah you can very good fantastic so thanks for inviting me to this fantastic and great session very pleased about it and as you introduce myself I have the task to speak about financing to speak about money it will be a very brief very uh a brief overview about this subject because seven minutes is not that much to talk about it uh in in details very briefly hpcmo Port Consulting we are supporting our clients in different areas investing management optimization of the facilities and operational procedures we concentrate on the pause but also on terminals and the hinterland transport infrastructure and what you can see is some key characteristics we have been working in the industry for more than 46 years different countries a lot of ports and we are very much heading forward for this issue of sustainability which means automatization optimization of the operations on the terminal application of hydrogen immobility and well and that's that's our focus on the one hand side and the second side is again co-funding identifying co-funding programs for our clients so that was a short introduction and we're talking about financing of hydrogen terminals but the question is what kind of hydrogen terminal are we talking about you know that this hydrogen exists in different forms compressed gauges or liquefied but also as derivatives ammonia methanol and lohc and that's of course for the for the investor a very important question what what kind of how should the terminal look like yeah what what is where does my money go into what kind of technology and we made a very quick um internet research here on the most common information about a hydrogen terminal plans and what you can see which is not representative what you can see we have a number of projects in in Europe we also have some in Namibia ludelitz and also a pilot project in Australia Japan where they have established the first liquefied Hydrogen terminal it's a pilot one they're interesting but what I want to say with this sheet is that most of the projects at the moment talking hydrogen are focusing on ammonia importing of ammonia let's say sorry exporting ammonia from countries with a great climate situation and importing it to to to Europe and then as ammonia and the good thing is of course that the industry know how to handle this kind of of category of product because this is a very a common commodity which is used for fertilizer plants and the chemical industry so ammonia seems to be the way forward but we can discuss it of course Very openly where does the money come from we have public sources and we have private sources of course the the public sources are listed here three major groups the one is the National Funds um I mean we we all know that actually every nation every government is looking for the Cyber Gene technology wants to become uh to to work on a sustainable energy Supply strategy and each and every nation has a strategy um I took the freedom to to look in particular for the countries of my my uh speaker the speakers the other speakers uh so there's money available and um there's a strong interest from the government when we have a look to the European Commission of course they also have the strategy hydrogen strategy they want to replace fossil fuels they have their CO2 yeah emission goals for 2030 2050 and there are some programs to support member states in that case to invest in hydrogen to develop to do research and development like this itzai program important projects of common European interest is the full phrase um so here's money available a lot of money is has been spent already global gateway is another very interesting program for international partners because this is a kind of um it's a progress focusing on the support of international partner countries it's a kind of counter ballots to the Chinese Silk Road initiative and it has a strong focus on sustainable energy production and also developing the transport Hope Pops that might be quite quite interesting for for international partners and when we go to the right hand side we have International Development institutions like World Bank African Development Bank Asian development bank they they have a lot of programs to support International partner countries mainly uh in terms of technical assistance they also are prepared to hand over some some loans but we're not talking about grants or some some real co-funding but we have a look to the private companies um it's a it's a different perspective and also a different motivation a motivation is profitability and profitability and profitability of course this is how how it works they look for a terminal Investments where they can earn some money which is which is okay or that might also look for some projects where they can which have an impact on their corporate identity towards the public so we have the private Maritime companies as a group of potential investors there are some terminal investors out there which are very experienced in investing in terminals I took the freedom to mention APM Capital they are very good in container terminals that might be also interested in other kind of terminals um and of course also shipping ads might be interested you know that the shipping industry have made a fantastic profit the previous two years and and they might be also interested to invest in terminals maybe even in ammonia or hydrogen terminals apart from the maritime companies we have non-maritime companies um which are uh yeah companies they they collect a hell of money and they have to invest the money like pens and funds insurance companies they have to invest it and they are looking for good opportunities and very often they are let's say um encouraged by the customers the clients to look for sustainable infrastructure projects and that might be another option to get a project or to get a hydrogen terminal co-financed when we take a private a business perspective what is necessary if we look for investors or what is what are they expect expectations of course they want to see a attractive business case when they do an investment they want to understand who I get my money back um they are very much interested in Risk sharing and guarantees of course very often they are insisted to have a combined financing of terminals of for infrastructure by even the public side ease of doing business is is a common phrase of course whenever you invest in a country you would love to have a stable political and social environment so that you have the kind of the expectation that your investment will pay off at the end of the day and timing of course is a matter when does it start what does the exact schedule of this project and again what about my investment can I get it back in a yeah in a time reasonable time and here are some requirements towards national government or International institutions I mean the money side is one issue the other one is to prepare a framework um to to build to prepare the ground for the investors and when it comes to the governments there is a there is an expectation for um yeah realistic easy policy regulations which make it easy to to go into that new technology to invest a fast application process this is something from Germany we are very slow in that respect but that is of course interesting for investors to um to to be interested in that kind of project saber Supply environment that is of course important to understand where we have a steady flow of of hydrogen or derivatives we have talked about the memorandum of understandings and there are a lot out there a lot is underway at the moment and of course that's a great prerequisite to again prepare the ground for investments in in more terminals easy and extensive co-founding yes of course as the technology in some respect is still new as there is a lot of a lot of requirements to to to build the infrastructure in the port even the production infrastructure um co-funding from State programs is very much uh yeah required actually to so that that something is is happening and finally standard international standards are necessary and important um either natural standard organization have they have worked on this of course there is a standard on hydrogen technology and I'm convinced they are working on that and much more needs to be clarified to make sure that we have a from a technical side an easy flow of hydrogen or derivatives from the exporter to the Importer countries so finally I hope I still in this seven minutes uh very if you take the three sentences with you the question is what is the uh the final commodity how do we transport hydrogen in the future will it be ammonia maybe yes because that seems to be easy when it comes to technical requirements and maybe some other forms or derivatives might come up for other purposes a public fund is available to invest or to prepare the ground to um to build or to invest in terminals so you look around and and try to identify the interested programs or governments and private funds yes they will step into the business and they have stepped already into the business for example when it comes to pneumonia terminal here in Hamburg they've made a big step forward and they will become more and more active when the commercial viability will increase in the future so that's all from my site thank you very much thank you hat moves this has been a very great overview of how we should look at the topic of finance and I think it was especially interesting also for our participants to hear about public funds but also private funds and you mentioned already some of the obligations that obviously the public sector has regulations managing Corporation topic of co-financing but somehow when when you read about the topic or when you speak to stakeholders we often still feel that there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem right you say private money comes in as soon as there is there's a commercially viable business case but of course we need the public sector to help to develop these business cases can you share a little bit more light on where you would see public funds really going to you mentioned Port infrastructure but which parts of it and which other paths would then need to be privately financed yeah the the government is responsible for the infrastructure transport infrastructure this is something we know from Europe they have to prepare the ground and uh to prepare the let's say the bad where private investors can can settle and when I talk about infrastructure I mean we're talking not to make a distinction between ports and terminals ports is something Linda is taking care of you know they are preparing everything to to make it happen that private terminal operator can establish and can start business uh infrastructure to my understanding is also to to co-fund also the production of of uh yeah Green hydrogen or let's say green energy which is a requirement for for green hydrogen and uh and pipelines and and everything I mean this is something to my understanding which is required to stimulate private investors with additional money and also with additional know-how thank you and then we've also been interested we've been hearing a lot about hydrogen hubs of course no it's always much bigger you now mentioned Port terminates but can you give us an estimate of how expensive hydrogen hubs are going to be are there any numbers you can share with us just so we get a bit of a feeling for it no this is too ambitious no no there's so many different projects going on and it's very difficult to to focus you know where does the terminal stop or does it end and uh and again we're talking about different Technologies we talked about ammonia I mentioned this uh this project this palette project Japan Australia which is focusing on on a pure hydrogen transport how this is very sexy but it's very complicated and uh to my understanding the market is still settling and and I unfortunately I can't give any clear focus on that I gave some some figures with my presentation but it's it's very different it's very difficult to compare the projects so that you can say it's just one amount a certain amount yeah thank you I thought I would try because you're the expert but um thank you for already providing the numbers in your presentation they're definitely helpful and I think the really big number that we all have in our head is probably not even big enough um to cover the total costs but um with this um or if I will hand over to you for the next session thank you very much welcome our next session so we've discussed really hubs have to have to be organized we've discussed also now so what needs how where's the money going to come to pay for everything but the I would like to actually we have a number of speakers now who actually have experience uh in really existing experience now to transport the different types of hydrogen uh so it's the the theme of the session is the flow of molecules not just electrons but molecules we have three different speakers three different countries let me start off with um Edina with Yara so those of you who uh know the fertilizer sector Yara is perhaps the most famous and perhaps the most green oriented of all the fertilizer companies so I'm really honored really to have somebody from here to speak at the panel I've left here more from you and I'd like to do more business with you because Yara is like really leading the way on green fertilizer but what most people don't know is that Yara has actually been one of the few people not only import pneumonia but actually they do a lot of the transport themselves and so they're actually uh they have a double business both at producing but also importing the fertility the ammonia that need to produce the fertilizer so I'm very happy to have the dinner here with us of the director of decarbonization partner a policy which goes to show they have their own Division and the the fertilizer business directed to decarbonization uh she was amazingly National policy advisor to the leadership of the labor party in Norway so she comes with a very politically objective and governance um and the the personal thing is that if I were Harry Potter I would now say aloha Mora and I would turn Adina into the decarbonizer but we're with us I will then therefore this would make myself disappear and then there's over to you thank you so much Earl for that uh really wonderful introduction and thank you so much all the other speakers that have already participated I've uh not uh noted I think I've written three pages of notes already so thank you very much uh if it's possible to share the presentation that would be great uh now uh I was just going to uh we can just skip the two firsts like the disclaimer and stuff boring stuff but I was going to start with uh well where are we when we're talking about ammonia because I'm uh I refer to Yara as a um accidental hydrogen producer and transporter and user because we've been producing hydrogen for over 100 years but we've never been interested in the hydrogen we wanted the nitrogen that we are taking from the air and that the plants need to grow so for us hydrogen was just the best way to capture nitrogen but now as we are moving into a uh the entire planet is having a green transition we are seeing that the energy that the hydrogen is carrying is of great importance not just for fertilizers but for fueling the green transition um we are the world's largest ammonia distributor today but this is just for ourselves it's for producing fertilizer primarily we are also selling to others so transporting ammonia to other other entities uh if you see where we are located you will see that there are three distinct areas and until a couple of years ago or actually until last year uh we had a lot of intro transport so South East Asia uh that whole Market would be we would transport internally there the same for Europe we have many different sites and we would transport ammonia from the ammonia producing sites to the ammonia use insights um of course Latin Central and North America was sort of one Hub as well after the the use of energy as the weapon uh against especially Europe we have also seen that the ammonia trade has gone from other parts of the world into Europe um we can go to the next one now why how does this look what are we doing with the ammonia well as I said we are first producing question today all hajjum is produced by natural gas um it's we try to to clean some of it to capture a lot of the carbon but we need to get better we need blue uh hydrogen and we need green hydrogen that is produced from electricity without any fossil fuels or any for soil resources involved and then we turn it into a Mona now why do we do this uh we love hydrogen but we don't love handling hydrogen so we turn it into ammonia as fast as we possibly can we do not like to store hydrogen so we turn it into ammonia then we can store ammonia in ammonia trancus and that's relatively easy and then we can ship it because you need large scale factories in order to produce ammonia with any kind of uh well to meet the standards that we are setting for our production so there's large scale production but you need a couple of things you need easy access to resources you need a lot of power so where we can produce the ammonia and hydrogen isn't necessarily where we can use it so that's why we need something that's easy to transport now hydrogen you need to either pressurize it or refrigerate it down to minus 233 degrees to get it liquid now that costs a lot of energy Wireless turning it into ammonia also costs more energy but makes it way more efficient when we are transporting it so that's why we chose the ammonia route um and when I'm saying it sounds like I only want ammonia this is not true we need everything everywhere all at once we need hydrogen we need liquid hydrogen we need uh bioethanol we need a lot of new energy forms or new energy carriers in order to achieve the goals that we have set for ourselves and after we've transported the money then we go to the marketing and distribution to the end users which can be for now is mostly fertilizer companies uh next slide please now the most important partner when we are moving forward is actually the ports because a very very large part of the value chain for ammonia and hydrogen going forward will be found at the ports both now because it's one of the first things that will happen but also in the future because it is where a lot of the continuous use will take place so uh we have um 18 um terminals for ammonia we are now trying to teach what we have learned on how to handle ammonia in in Terminals and how to make it accessible to other users so you can both have for the ports you can use the ammonia straight off as a shipping fuel then you have a shipping fuel that does not emit any emission any carbon emissions which is totally carbon free in use and can be used for the ships straight off but it can also be the starting point for him to land connectivity pipes into the rest of the country now just to give you just to give you a sort of a sense of the scale that we are talking about we are trying to replace the fossil fuels that our world cannot continue to be Reliant upon um I I just I checked the numbers for how how much infrastructure is really connected to sort of the fossil part and if you just look at pipes pipelines for oil and gas it's 1.18 million kilometers that's enough to circumvent the planet 30 times when it comes to hydrogen or ammonia pipelines I I think we could maybe read 0.000 three times around the world once so we have we have a massive task ahead of us but I'm quite sure we I know we will achieve it and this is another part because someone a lot of people have been asking what about the the chicken uh the hen and the Egg The Chicken and the Egg I mean that I strongly believe that the ports are both the Hem and the egg shipping is one of the hard two-based sectors but where we know that they will need hydrogen hydrogen derivatives for the long run so we know that this will be the fuel of the future uh but the ship owners the ship Builders need to have reassurance that the um the Mona will be there for them when they build their ships so I I'm asking the pots to take a leap of faith because we need to build the infrastructure and the ships will come next slide please um this is just one thing because another thing that we need to collaborate with the proton is the safety uh you could just take a couple of uh clicks because uh when we are introducing a new new fuel we need to be very very very uh absorbed we need to be almost like single-mindedly focused on safety we have ammonia production and hydrogen production in big cities right now so we know how to handle this safely but we need to inform uh the public and everyone that will need to know how to handle it how do you do this in a safe manner we cannot afford any accidents and there we need the post we are very lucky to have ports that are completely ruthless when it comes to safety uh strict regulations we need that that's that's exactly what we need and next slide please one such example is a collaboration that we have oh sorry I'm too young now okay can you give me yes a 60 60 second warning please six yeah perfect so just a small example kilbera we have already uh joined corporations with the pilbara port to see how does a pneumonia Port look like not the ammonia terminals that we are currently operating where we own everything but the public ammonia Port where ships can use the amount of fuel so we will be happy to share all the findings that we find uh during this collaboration and next and final slide please this is just a short summary of what we've been talking about so we need a millionaire we need hydrogen we need liquid hydrogen we need biomethanol it's it's a room for everyone but we need to do it right now because we don't have a lot of time thank you so much for your question patience answer that I was a bit too long you don't know all good look I think we listened in a Fascination so as always I'd love to hear more of people and hearing that you have 18 ammonia terminals is amazing I don't think anybody recognizes there is only like 120 ammonia terminals worldwide and you have 18 of those so guys yeah yeah I'm sure there are um good John thank you all for the message we need everything we need to just carbonize today um well we we can't I mean Norway is a great lead or sorry Sweden so you're a Sweden over I forget Norway yeah yeah Norway is great but we need to if we wanted to carbonize everywhere all at once and at the same time we need other countries and with that I would like to bring in the next speaker in uh so this is now we have constantinos frate from Brazil and so he's managed to survive his technical issues and Constantine and now will give us quite a different perspective um he's on the good side he's a mechanical engineer so he knows all the the physics around hydrogen but he's really more now on the on the level of trying to create more collaborations and really to write different companies together so he's not support specialist but more like connecting the different people within the board and with this uh so let me pass on to uh Constantino and then some of them it's very serious thank you very much uh it's a pleasure for me to stay to to be here okay are you sure my presentation just a second differently for Norway here is Sun all the year okay uh are you trying to talk uh in seven minutes in the first of all uh we our states here I State uh is the state where he we host the test import that is a partnership with hotter than hotter than already has 30 percent of persons shareholder is a partnership of a state government of Chiara here is some issues related to our potential for renewable energy generation in Sierra as you see here we have for example in offshore wind about uh 56 gigawatts under license process here in this state of course we don't have a debate internal demand for all uh this energy okay but it is it is only true to give you a a view of our potential of course we expect to have the the the lower cost of green hydrogen here in Sierra State we have a lot of studies for making say Bloomberg Etc that point out that Sierra will have in Brazil the best price of the rehydrogen here is the passe Port complex that is a partnership between the state government and hotter than port we have here an industrial area uh uh bigger than 19 000 actors including a free trade zone with more than 6 000 actors here is a view of our Port is a port in Open Water is a modern and young board here with a Texas low taxes here we have uh the view of the port facilities including two peers one dedicated nowadays to Natural Gas and one other uh mood purpose terminal they are connected by two Bridges and here we have the solutions that we are adopted for the infrastructure solutions for the green hydrogen have been passing the pot infrastructure uh we we plan to operate ammonia and of course all uh green hydrogen derive achieving the PR2 we are planning to have an ammonia storage shared uh thinking here of course to to to have a less investment costs as an operation course of course a corridor of futility nowadays we have now separated 1 000 and 100 actors only for electoralysis planes in the free trade zone of pest import and we now have of course we have to to strength the the grid the transmission line but we have about 1.5 to 3 gigawatts power generation Connection in the grid available now okay to start the green hydrogen production here at passing port in terms of potential of decrease of course we are uh heavy at this time any study with the Run pop program of jic done uh is considered the the closest rehydrogen export import route between South America and Europe uh of course we are still making about 1.3 million spawns of green hydrogen uh per year in 2030 in 2030 and uh we we think that we could potentially meet 25 of all the hotter loans in part demand here is some classes that we have now at best import the energy cluster with two cool fire power plants of EGP and NF and two gas-fired power plants these two co-ower fire power plants they are planning to substitute the call for the green hydrogen in the next year is a decision uh um by by the board of this these companies okay we have two wind blades Factory here at bessing uh uh I still mu that nowadays the biggest one the bigger one is the Asel orbital the display need to have a green steel production here at best import two seven factors animal nutritions Logistics Etc we have now three uh companies and AES Brazil we have a pre-contract side with passing Port they are now uh paying for the area for a reservation of the area that will be used for the green hydrogen plants and at the right side we have 26 about use dedicated to a green hydrogen production if you can not see we have for example go to IND care lean Fort skew uh speak there is a Chinese company ADP from Portugal total Aaron Etc ABB stop having mitsui hdf it runs hydrogen allies only to mention some European companies okay here is the CRI State projects we of course we are trying to mitigate all the risk for the private investors in the green hydrogen chain and of course accelerated retention from the pilot project to inducer scale it we have now a project pilot uh be in operation that this pilot was built by EGP energy from Portugal is a pilot from of uh 1.25 megawatts supplied by 3 megawatts of photovoltaic Generation Plant and we have here all uh the Investments planted to support the infrastructure necessary for the effective implementation of the green hydrogen chain in person talking about these steps you are planning this pension of the queue head multi-autility terminal implementation of a docking birth to handle large project cargos and inputs for the green hydrogen production chain and the Pier 2 is patient is only for ammonia and all the derivatives of uh green hydrogen to allow the the export for uh for example through Europe okay when we have a implementation of fertility Corridor infrastructure and ammonia storage sharing area we have now selecting all the companies that uh will be constructed building this infrastructure for ammonia storage here at the same port all these Investments of uh for inference infrastructure they are they are already included in passing part business plan so the operation aims refinance the needs for of the Futures operators okay Investments for example and we wastewater treatment desalination the mineralization projects okay so can I can I give you the 60 60 second Bell here is all our projector projection okay this projection is based on a conservative scenario and in the growth of the green hydrogen production based on investors that already that are already paying for the reservation of the area in the free trade zone of percent Port our projection is just this about 8.1 gigawatts of electrolysis in about the double Wharf renewable sources of uh renewable energy okay so that's all thank you very much yeah thanks sir um which of the guy Gino's Constantine really thank you a lot I mean this is impressive to see how much you're really doing per saying and I would be jealous I think many others would be just to see really how many companies have signed them or use them to see you have Fortescue there and uh they're coming from Portugal and other some really congratulations um we have questions but let me take one more speaker just to six the molecules issue uh we've talked about Hamburg and we've talked about Bremen but I would like now to introduce a third German report um because yeah I think the this German report deserves the prize for Speed uh this I'm talking about the port of williamshaven who in record time created LNG Terminals and I would really I think about Sonia and I would like to hear from them how do you actually even if this complicated Germany with all the permits process how do you get actually are able to build a hub so quickly so rapidly and that would be like a nice light Tower example for everybody else calling upon Dr Taylor I'm told from the who's the head of the public affairs Department of Onyx power who's jumping into short notice for us so we're greatly appreciate that you're here with us today and well if you're joining us today in Your Capacity as the communications lead of the energy Hub of Willems often so you really got surprised for being the speediest so over to you thanks a lot for inviting us to get to present uh what we are doing in William's house um with respect to the title of the presentation it's more than LNG yes indeed and you were referring to what is used to be called Deutschland um I would be a bit more careful in that respect as there was already existing plans for a project for the import of LNG since 1973 so they they could rely on on some work that had been done before but nevertheless so hydrogen was already on on the on this on the agenda before the elegy terminal was yeah here we go and then probably we go to the next slide already well thanks so um hydrogen we started to discuss hydrogen envelops have already three years ago um I have to say it was a purely private in initiative of private companies you see them here on the slide um they came together against the background that they one or the other had a nice project for producing hydrogen or importing hydrogen uh and they applied for in the ipsal process but they failed so um there was a big discussion what what was wrong what went wrong and they came up to the conclusion that uh they just they described they had very nice descriptions of their very project but they didn't care about the value chain so um the idea was born to have a kind of common approach um to join forces to to develop or to to look at the potential of films often as an import spot for for hydrogen and as a production spot for indigenous production of hydrogen um to look at the potential to integrate that into this into the the plant hydrogen backbone and to identify Synergy potential between the different projects so he that can be used oxygen that can be used and so on and so forth and um not last not least also creating an opportunity to find potential for cooperation between the different players as we are all working in non-material markets so that may help to speed up the process so that is where we came from We did an initial study together with Deutsche energy Again Tour they came up with a kind of uh strategy paper for the region and when it comes now to to the import probably we go to the next slide please so we already talked about the import and the challenges with respect to import we are now all waiting for um the the achievements of Kawasaki heavy Industries to have a liquefied hydrogen carrier but as long as this doesn't exist we have to live with other carriers with other hydrogen carriers and um so we have we are now working on the value chain to convert the imported hydrogen or the ammonium or the synthetic methane or the liquefied or organic hydrogen carrier into hydrogen and the rest and then we are Keen to get industry energy intensive industry to williams-son so we have sufficient space uh we have storage potential in the proximity of films often salt Covenants and we have the connector to the hydrogen vehicle so that is basically where we come from and these are the ingredients for the strategy paper that I mentioned earlier when we go to the next slide looking at what we call here unique selling points uh I think what makes relapse happen uh specific in in Germany is that Williamson is Germany's only deep water part that means a draft of 18 meters and good nautical access this allows to handle the qmax ships for energy of the ships of the Panama panamax class uh we have an excellent location for electrolysis as we are directly at the coast and the incoming offshore wind will be connected via will himself or to a large extent will be connected by a villains health and we have connections to the transmission grid we have the starting point of the gas infrastructure of the hydrogen backbone all what is now being built to transport LNG can be converted to hydrogen and as I said before we have salt curtains we have the biggest uh thought cause and location in in proximity of films have um directly in the region and that will allow us um to cover more or less or the potential of the lab softness to cover more or less 50 of the expected hydrogen demand in 2030 and that includes location of indigenous production and imports so this is what makes Williamson very special in Germany and when we go to the next slide here we see the further development of the private initiative as I said it was a loose cooperation of private companies that we decided to create a kind of organizational setting for that and new members came in you see now the big players already on board even companies like aw EBP or NG they are joining and that that and we also integrated as associate members scientific scientific world consultancies the agency for labor and so on and so forth and we also integrated the local Administration so that is uh what I want to say is that we already took the approach to integrate the stakeholders development stakeholders so that they are informed directly what we are doing and what the way ahead is to the next slide please yeah that is now the organizational setting that we choose so we have a speaker of the energy Hub uh unfortunately he could show up today um so as as he he was subject to a flu and we have several working groups we have we are coping with the whole value chain that is one working group we have the energy infrastructure that is electricity and hydrogen infrastructure we have the port infrastructure that is a very special issue we already talked about the issue of fire pre-gard and so on and so forth and we have um a working group that is coping with permits with um with facilitating the uh the settlement of industrial players and finally we have the communication and the Regulatory Affairs role that in a way when consolidates all the views of the different work streams so this is the setting that we choose and we have currently when we go to the next slide we have been updating the data study so this this slide shows that we had workshops on different issues the H2 value chain the energy infrastructure and important infrastructure and we have now an updated overview of the existing and possible energy corridors for me safe for H2 for water for CO2 and for electricity so the next slide gives you a flavor of what we are doing or what what is ongoing in the region we have um 25 project locations so it's they are clustered in the north and there's a south of Willems half and of the city of Williams have but we also have uh projects in the proximity of William sarafen we have um various projects that oh we are covering the whole value chain from the import of ammonia including crackers from to electrolyzes to storage in salt covenants and to the industrial subtle member of off takers so everything is included and we expect or we see that the potential for the left safoon to provide roughly 35 terabyte hours in 31. so and that is covering more good cover 37 to 61 percent of so that is I think everything I wanted to tell you so thanks a lot no thank you I mean this is uh for me fascinating to see like two points you've again highlighted the issue of of Transport distribution and storage really highlights the advantages of really of storage and connecting the second point which I liked was actually your structure where you had your four working groups on the issue value chain uh there was the port infrastructure uh the the one was then regulations which was amazing make sure you have something to deals with I forgot the fourth one the fourth one was on the highway Construction travel infrastructure is some I mean Port Harbor supplement so so uh how do we get the question is how how can we facilitate the settlement of industrial energy intensive industry energy intensive the really good so thinking even the carpet is well done so Dr Chen thank you again thank you guys for coming at short notice we are going to skip some questions to integrate them with the panel and therefore let me hand over to Sonia um for that purpose yeah thank you wife exactly let's move on to our panel discussion which is which will finally give us the chief for discussion questions among our speakers but also ask questions from the audience or dear participants feel free to participate via the chat function we will then feed in your questions we have all our distinguished speakers from earlier now on the panel um let me quickly check whether Mr Nito from Uruguay is back in the call we had some technical problems with him unfortunately the stanito can you hear us it doesn't seem to be the case unfortunately but yeah let's bring together those perspectives export and import and let's explore potential barriers and solutions next steps for the development of a worldwide green hydrogen markets all right do you already have a question from the audience yeah so we've been we've been reading the audience just from the audience to know is there many things that are just so specific so we're trying to filter out those that relate to Ports and we'll connect the panelists so I have a double question uh this the first one this Lars this was for you uh many people were curious why don't why is brimhof not going into ammonia and therefore then the question reverse question then to Edina why is uh therefore also yeah so Keen about ammonia be interesting here let's say very different perspectives well very simple for safety reasons so we would have been would would have required Great Lengths to comply with all the safety requirements and we decided uh that we most probably will rule out ammonia foreign is that hard to comply with safety it could be could be your just experienced yeah no we no we but we hope we there there it's it's true that there are very strict uh safety regulations regarding both ammonia and of course hydrogen and and the other uh fuels for most fuels the the problem is that they are explosive or highly combustible for ammonia it's actually um it's uh it's the problem is that it is toxic uh so it's um uh it needs to be handled with care as well as any other fuel but for us it might be just that we've done it for so long uh that it's been sort of it's part of our culture to handle ammonia in a safe way because so we we don't fare ammonia but we respect it and we have operations uh in my hometown in the in the southern part of Norway uh the plant is right smack in the middle of the city uh so this is something that we are operating on the on a daily basis and the same with the with the ships that I think we have we are operating 12 ships but we are uh borrowing a few more uh renting a few more so I think there's 15 ships on the Seas right now transporting Mona from A to B and we are transporting over four million tons every year so uh it's but I can understand for it especially if it's a new thing because um I think one thing is you need to build uh the structure to minimize any risks but the last part is the people handling and you need a a safety culture that is um that does not um it you cannot take any shortcuts you cannot uh not take safety uh seriously so I I I think I'll invite large to come and visit us in one of our Terminals and you can maybe you'll be a bit less afraid afterwards no I mean it's a it's a fair decision because it's like the things and the I think it's a fair discussion because it gives everybody there for a sense of everybody's going cool on Pneumonia wants to export and we saw then also from the financing section that we have so many export ammonia the terminals but you need to treat with care I think that's the key takeaway um Sonia did you want to do you have a question yeah that was a question um to Linda I think um heart mode and Edina already spoke a bit about the hand and egg or chicken and egg problem between Port infrastructure and shipping infrastructure um how do you approach this topic at HPA yeah that's an interesting question um many times coming up so um in my point of view actually we don't have a concrete chicken and neck problem so if we look um like if shifts of have come into operation with a new fuel they already ensure they have contractors they have um contracts a few suppliers so they ensure that they have fuel available in the ports where they sail so my point of view this chicken and egg problem is not a problem which should um [Music] yeah which which is not really existing so we we always yeah we are in contact with shipping companies and we try to provide infrastructure beforehand and um yeah when we know Ships Come into force with a new fuel um the shopping companies also get into contact with the ports with few suppliers so um that the value chain is involved and that the infrastructure is in place when the ships are in place thank you Linda I see Hartman had something to add there yeah just so which came into my mind story to step in but uh I think shipping companies they are service providers they do what the market want ports again our service provider they do what the market wants so we have to look to the industry to the ones who decide what kind of product they they need for their production and of course that was something I tried to explain um there should be a kind of a focus what kind of derivative are we talking about what kind of hydrogen we're talking about and if this is clarified or will be clarified uh yeah during the next years then there should be also a clear perspective on the kind of terminal technology which is then required exactly so we see that at the for example at the moment the shipping companies are going into direction of methanol we see the first sea going vessels container vessels so different ship times coming um into operational methanol so the major ports around the world they are preparing methanol infrastructure so there will be no infrastructure or banking infrastructure problem for bunkering for methanol in the major ports thank you then arrive do we have another question from the audience um so my question is some of the investors to everybody those especially who are running ports it is started with Constantino um I think everybody's was with the impressed of the number of mous and investors you have coming in to uh the thing and so what are the key things that investors are looking for and that or what are the key things that you offered to them that makes them come to you okay thank you roof I think that first of all the the state of Sierra has excellent indicators of renewable energy in terms of capacity Factor in terms of infrastructure even the park infrastructure in terms of distribution lines transmission lines substations and the port is modern and like I mentioned before has low uh low taxes and this is not only the the main reason for attracting so much attention worldwide okay but I think that the state of Sierra is very well organizing and this state is uh doing a a internal work for more than three decades that are organized the this the the fiscal health of this state is very good however of course our state is not a rich state but we have uh enough funds to to finance the infrastructure projects uh the second in the second uh hand in my point of view we we have here a strategy group created involving oh uh these stakeholders of these states of Sierra like for example the academy the Federation of Industry the state government Etc of the society okay that provides all the policies all the the the the the studies needed evolved even giz we're all back uh uh Institute Etc that provides you see to uh to CRI State a road map not only for the configuration of the Hub but for uh the the public policies so I think that the main reason are those okay good okay another things that sounds like really good uh really infrastructure financing reliability let me pass on to Dr Taylor to call Peter yeah raise your hand I think uh that is a valid point but we are discussing the different pieces of the value chain and I think the Big Challenge will be that we have that we have to have an integrated view on uh the production from the production to the off taker to organize that that chain and I I think um we have to to build that view or and to develop that on the same speed so nobody will import any molecule of hydrogen or ammonia so on and so forth when there is no off Taker and that requires an infrastructure to transport to the to the off take and I think we have to look into to have to take an integrative view on that so it's it's good that we have the specific view on on each element of the value chain but at the end we have to come to to a complete view of the value chain well I think most would agree with you without off Tinker no bank is going to finance anything uh Constantino you raise your hand again only true you know when additional information Brazil has nowadays one of the biggest agribusiness in the world and for example when attraction one more attraction is the fertilizer Supply okay because we nowadays import about 80 percent of all the needs of fertilizers including ammonia Uriah Etc of the country okay so we have here a strong internal Market uh not only for ammonia but even for if use synthetic views that are being developed by some of these companies that I have shown uh before okay thanks that brings us back to the fuel discussion and do we go for I see that now of course what else would the Dina say of course brings us back to ammonia you're muted a new please yes thank you uh yeah it was more the whole picture that Dr Karen was uh was talking about because it's very true uh that when you for me my my goal is trying to uh to turn our planet into something that can be sustainable forever and ever and that means that I I want to use uh Renewable Power for as much as I can uh if you can if you can plug it in you should plug it in and then sometimes that's not enough you need the the extra punch that you get from hydrogen so if you can if you can get by on only hydrogen do that please do that I don't want I don't want a drop of ammonia to be used where hydrogen would have been sufficient because you will lose energy in the conversion but after you've you've you've used hydrogen for everything you can you will still have those really hard to bait sectors for instance shipping for instance some sort of uh Cold Steel the power that we will also need to get rid of pretty soon but in the meantime we can use the Mona to reduce the emissions um and you will need to use it continuously for fertilizer our problem now is that every molecule that is produced while if it's hydrogen or if it's turned into ammonia it's used so we need massive new production and I'm I I'm worried about are we are we impatient enough and are we doing this quickly enough because I am sure that the demand will come from especially from Germany which are that was really spearheading the great hydrogen transition but we need a production to come after to come before so so this is often other suppliers we just we need to ramp it up yes sir thank you thank you again I think it would be let me pass the floor to no healer who's been um I haven't had a chance so I know we're already in your presentation you were extremely impatient and want to give us all the information so what do you feel about the uh what is Morocco doing in terms of fuels are you have you taken a bet or are you trying to be open for all sides now how are you preparing all of your ports to be able to do the six different hubs that you've envisaged thank you Rolf for the work uh yes so here in Morocco now we are preparing now the hydrogen Moroccan offer uh we have some small groups that are working on uh dedicated topics uh infrastructure is one of the thematics that are working on and ports is also taking a priority so uh we have existing ports but they are dedicated mainly for fishing and the smaller usage for cruising and we have three big ports that are uh dedicated to uh trade international trade one in the the north it's uh in the Mediterranean Sea uhmed and the other on Casablanca from the uh west from the west and another it's which is located in Georgesville we are important mainly chemical products there namely ammonia for the fertilizer industry which is located in this region uh now uh the plan for uh for ports are mainly dedicated to building Newports in the South Region because there we have a very uh big potential in terms of Renewables uh we have a high uh load factor for wind and solar boat so it will be relevant to host those power to X large-scale Project there and also that will be dedicated to export also for importing Goods here in Morocco so um I and there are also some extensions in of other ports in the pipes so very happy to hear of really the all the efforts really to accelerate development thank you hello to my co-moderator Sonia yeah thank you thank you thank you very much everyone um unfortunately force of today's webinar um I wish we could keep the discussion going for many more hours but I think we can all agree this has been a very timely event and we've learned a lot today and if I may summarize especially what I've heard now during the last discussion it's moving at speed is what we need um I want to thank all the participants online and our idea panelists in today's event very very much for taking the time to share your knowledge your insights and also your next steps with us and I also want to give special thanks again to Dr storost and BMW UK again the event has been recorded and we we're now close today's session so so Sonia three one two three from our side thank you so three two one thank you all for joining