Transcript for:
Notes from Interview with Ranvir Aladia (Beer Biceps)

the reason why I consider you to be one of the one of the most epic benchmarks in Indian social media is because you've done it in Hindi you've done it in English you've done it with short form you've done it with long form my name is rad we know him as here B what if all your life that youve experience comes to crashing down I'll rebuild it this is perhaps the question that's going to come from a million other people why do you talk about tantric Yeti and uh also sex oh man I can't this is the first time talking about this if you were a brand how would you approach social media campaigns where would you choose YouTubers where would you choose Instagram so like I know that my main game is masses but doesn't that uh make you feel like you're losing your identity I have tried to crack Instagram multiple times but it has not happened but you've done it on Instagram not once but twice like I'm trying to get into uh content that's inspired by things cool talk to me about the machine strategy okay wow I thought that's a top secret how did you how did you get t as a client but why do you think YouTube creators command such a high premium when it comes to Brand deals as well as audience loyalty is it simply because of the content that they put out like I think some of these ore juice gang they going to be media Legends in 20 or 30 or 10 does that sum up our conversation I feel a little naked right now [Music] hi everybody this is a conversation that I had with ranir aladia also known as beer biceps While most people see ranir as just another content creator what they don't realize is that ranvir is the king of Indian social media and I say this because there is nobody in this entire country who has been able to crack YouTube and Instagram both in Hindi and in English and he knows every single social media platform so well that today he has 7 million subscribers on his English YouTube channel 8 million subscribers in his Hindi YouTube channel almost 2 million on both of his Clips Channel and on Instagram he has 2.4 million followers in his Hindi account and 4 million in his English account along with this there is also a TRS account which also has another million followers and that too it has grown in the past 60 days itself and same is the case with his Twitter and LinkedIn account as a result today beer biceps is a multi-million doll Media company with a distribution of 22 million subscribers now to most people ran is a Creator but to me he has been a kind teacher brother and an inspiration so I got to ask him all the sneaky questions just like a little brother which resulted into a two-hour master class on how to build a million dooll business using social media how to play the algorithms of YouTube and Instagram and use them to catapult your following how should Brands approach social media maret marketing and most importantly what are the biggest mistakes that creators and Brands make which fail them in the Indian social media space and people while we are at the subject of building a million dooll business nobody taught me or ranvir how to build a business but you can learn how to become a brilliant business leader with scaler School of Business the best part is that they have scholarships up to 100% if you register using the link below people India's education system is so messed up that even after studying for 4 years 35% of our engineers and 30% of our MBA grads are unemployable but here's where scaler School of business is revolutionizing business education in India they are offering a full-time 18-month PG program in management and technology and this program is so amazing that it is built and taught by industry leaders who have scaled billion dollar companies like uber mintra and Mackenzie and to help you thrive in this hyper competitive market as a part of the scaler curriculum itself you will work work on real world projects you will build your own business you will take it to the market generate revenue and also raise VC Capital while studing on campus and since scaler has been in the education industry for seven long years they already have access to 1,200 plus company Partners which includes Google Amazon Flipkart and more and this is something that no other business school can offer in India right now in fact their online programs have been so successful that their placement rates have touched 96% and their median CTC stands at 25 lakh rupees and now scaler School of Business is handpicking only 75 students for their founding cohort starting early September 2024 the best part is that they have scholarships up to 100% if you register using the link below so if you want to become a brilliant business leader apply for scaler School of Business using the link in my description and in my comment section and now on with the episode so what I find extremely FAS fting about you is your story and not a lot of people know your story because back then you used to talk a lot about your story but now you don't and I just asked a few people about whether they know how ranir became ranir they don't know much about it and um I remember that back then you were extremely aggressive like you are a rebel and I remember that Quint Quint I think they published your video on you speaking something about Amir Khan and his transformation I remember all of that and uh you know one day I was sitting right after college I was sitting at a cafe and I was telling teu and during that time I think you had um hit a milestone of 3 million subscribers and until that point you had posted the caption said after 400 videos we are finally here at 3 million subscribers so that's when I told her that the day I hit 400 videos is the day I can expect to have 3 million subscribers until then I'm going to put my head down and I'm going to keep on working so I divided 400 by3 I said you know roughly 130 140 videos 130 140 good videos great videos is what you need to get to 1 million subscribers so I said let's put in the work let's get to 140 videos and let's see where it goes so I have seen your entire Journey but not a lot of people know that and uh and and you know a lot of people only see you as a podcaster podcaster but I was just telling the guys over here that uh ranir is to me ranir is the king of Indian social media for multiple reasons a because you've done it in Hindi in English which is extremely difficult I have just started my Hindi Channel I understand how difficult it is because we both are comfortable in English in Hindi it is extremely uncomfortable and then I again went back to your old Hindi videos to see how your Hindi was back then and it was terrible bro yeah I was like if ranir can do this so can I because I speak like Rohit Sharma bro in Hindi okay and there's a lot of uh slang here and there so I said dude if I speak like this people are going to understand that I am not the guy they think I am we're Maharashtra boys bro like there is that little Mar angle mixed in aindi so I thought but let me just go back to see what R did and then I saw your videos and I I can clearly see that you're struggling to you know speak and you're thinking and then you're just thinking about just saying something and I said you know let's start our Hindi Channel and that's how we started so the reason why I consider you to be one of the one of the most epic bench benchmarks in Indian social media is because you've done it in Hindi you've done it in English you've done it with short form you've done it with long form I just saw your Instagram engagement and I was telling the guys also about it 10 million views 4 million views 3 million views it is not a joke and I have tried to crack Instagram multiple times but it has not happened but you've done it on Instagram not once but Thrice with ranir aladia with beer biceps they have two different pieces of contents going out every single day along with TRS which by itself is an another Channel even that is about to hit a million so bro my my agenda for today's podcast is to go deep inside that social media I wouldn't say hacker but I would say I want to understand that social media Legend within you to try and see how did you go from being a random kid Distributing pamphlets at the beach to now having cumulatively what 20 odd million followers across social media platforms and what I also want to what I also want to uncover is the reason behind the con consistency of how you post and how many views and how much engagement you get because a lot of people often get stuck between this dilemma of either posting great content or posting High engagement content but some somehow you've been able to strike the balance in such a way or some people get stuck with the Dilemma of posting too much content or to less okay I'm the guy who posts too less so I'm always concerned about you know if I just put in a lot of videos then if I push out a lot of videos the quality might go down so that is the second agenda that I want to uncover today which is the understanding of how do you strike a perfect balance between consistency and volumes and how do you scale this entire thing in such a way that you go on to become an entrepreneur and not just remain as a social media content creator and this is what I keep telling all my friends okay and this is also something that I've learned from you that if you are a Creator you will last for 4 years if you are an entrepreneur you will last for a decade okay so those are the things that I want to uncover so let's start with your story 2015 ranir is this uh dude who just hit the gym got a great body and posted this first video hi guys my name is Radia and uh and then what and what I'm a I'm a what I'm a fitness trainer and uh and you you started giving out tips and you just sitting like that with a sleeveless uh sleeveless t-shirt right Nike I still have that uh com compression t-shirt it's yeah so so talk to me about that phase of 2015 what got you started with YouTube even when YouTube was not cool even before the goave okay first a question for you uh am I more fun than nirmala siar Raman to sit in front of I know that bro okay hold on uh okay it's hard to have a work conversation with you on some degree because I play football with you so we have that equation so I'm going to try keeping jokes apart okay because we're in things cool right now it's okay bro you can crack jokes we can we can go all out uh also if I go on a rant stop me and then like you know make me talk specifics uh your your question was about 2015 uh 2015 uh let's let's go to 2014 which is my final year of engineering College uh consciously didn't sit for any of the engineering College placements because they were all coding related jobs and that was the one thing I could never wrap my head around it it was just not a skill that came naturally to me while I have respect for coders uh so I knew that okay I'm not going to do this and had done internships in engineering college so I had a kind of raw gaze that dude my own skill set is great for business I'm a great communicator I have business Acumen uh and now have to just figure which domain I'll like get into so the game plan was always to do my own thing but didn't learn how to formally like you know start a startup uh didn't know how to go about it either uh so when I graduated uh I told my parents that give me a month take care of me for a month financially Etc and I figure out what I should do after that 2 weeks into that break uh uh you know I was thinking I was just figuring out what to do next uh I called up a relative of mine who owned an engineering Factory okay uh told him that I'll work with you for free I'll just Shadow you take me everywhere uh worked in that factory for a month and I figured that um uh business is not that complicated they were running a company that made chemical agitators which are like chemical mixers which is a very engineering specific business but I asked each department to break down their job and I realized oh it's all systems and processes there's actually nothing difficult here because in the workshop I would see like a a guy who's not done engineering he was probably a 10th pass you know couldn't speak English but was able to help construct those chemical agitators that taught me that dude a lot about life and business is based on self- learning and interest uh I had a Massi who worked in that factory and she kind of figured out what I was all about understood that I'm trying to launch my own career it was probably maybe Max 2 to 4 weeks that I spent in that Factory uh learned a lot about the world and parall I finished that one month I took from my parents so my dad sat me down and he told me that um you need to now kind of go independent so people have this impression that I'm from a rich family okay my my uh parents had made a lot of money between my fifth grade and my 10th grade and then there was a massive financial problem and we kind of lost almost everything that we had financially other than the roof overhead and my parents are doctors so doctors always have work so my parents were in the rebuilding phase themselves and they couldn't afford to just say dude you know do what you want and we'll pay for you uh and both my parents are very taipe personalities so they both wanted me to ukar Something in Life or at least you know be on my own TW feet so my dad sat me down and he said either you start studying for an MBA right now or start studying for your next steps or you take up a job and if you're not going to do one of these then I'll stop paying for your food and you know all the ways that a parent supports you other than letting you stay in my house he'll stop paying for food also he said yeah everything damn uh and that's probably the best thing my father's done for me and I've had a strained relationship with my father all my life but I look back at that one moment as probably the best thing that my father did for me and we're at peace now and he knows on some level I think I'm very grateful to him for that one moment now because I think that that's the role of a father you need to give that tough love situation uh so anyway he was on his own journey of rebuilding his uh own career uh I was in this place where I it was kind of like back to the wall you know like uh I call it balls balls against the worldall uh very afraid about the world but also ready to go at it in engineering College i' had done a Fitness certification course just out of Interest so I was technically a certified trainer so the day that this incident happened with my dad I think it was almost like the next day uh I was I'd gone to my engineering office but I decided you know what let me go to Carter Road and just figure out trying to sell myself as a fitness trainer two people so I I did exactly that I wore like tighter t-shirts and shs went out found some guys who are slightly overweight spoke to them bro out a little bit I said that I'm a fitness trainer I'll be able to train you uh and because I was able to speak in English you automatically earn a premium there so I locked one of my first clients now that masi at the engineering Factory she made me sit down and she's like okay this is a nice kind of small Revenue stream that you've built how about looking at this at scale so I envisaged a an Uber for fitness trainers where one can sit at home and just click on a button and Order work sort of like what Urban company is doing today um I sat and Drew out a uiux without having any knowledge of uiux just for fun and I realized I had something there um so I started watching a Stanford uh online course which is free of cost it's called how to start a startup I think it's run by Y combinator and I understood how startups work because of that so I've realized I realized at that point that you need to raise money for this found uh an angel investor somewh reached out to him he was someone who worked at krisle uh I have not met that guy like you know in a very long time now but that one meeting was very important for me because he told me that you know a lot of people are trying to do this Uber for fitness trainers concept how you would be able to break out is uh you look good you can talk well consider social media so I literally started beer biceps the next day uh one of my closest friends in life his name is adya valvi I told him the idea and he pulled out an image of a beer glass from somewhere he pulled out those arms from somewhere he's like take use this as your logo and uh eventually I got that logo trademarked and all that but it was actually designed by him I literally that that video of me sitting on that sofa is recorded one or two days after this meeting with the chisle guy so uh it was just very quick execution uh with the vision of building an Uber for trainers but as I kept putting out videos and I kept training people I was making a lot of money in cash from the training pumping it back into my YouTube stuff found rajas pesi who was my first teammate uh he would record videos for me uh so over the course of one year I also started training tanay from eiib okay how did you how did you get tanay as a client just reached out to him once I I got very drunk one night when I was 22 I don't drink anymore but I got like smashed one night uh and I think my whole DNA at that point was just keep growing figure out a way to grow so I wrote out a very emotional piece to tme saying that I'm a huge aib fan uh and I understand what you go through um in terms of people trolling you for your weight give me a chance you know I'm I'm I can I know I can do something with you wow so like U he agreed he's like okay come meet me at XYZ location and I took that as the biggest opportunity of my life so I went and met him he's like can you find me a gym I would just go into random gyms in anderi and say I'll get I'll get you a top content creator let me start training him from tomorrow uh eventually we figured out you know how to train together I would be at his house and he was cool enough to let me spend an hour extra post uh the session or pre the session uh and we' we'd do a lot of talking like it's but uh he'd also brief me a lot on how his career was going about and this is like 2015 2016 where influencer marketing is not a thing so he would tell me that can you imagine a reality where a cycle brand pays you 1 lakh rupees just to talk about them on Snapchat and I said that bro that's it's a great thought it's happening in America but will it truly happen in India uh and I was earning a lot of money in cash again from Fitness training uh but once I saw him starting to crack his few deals um I kind of realized that hold on my YouTube channel is also growing I had to have a little bit of a painful conversation with him about uh needing to stop training him like as a fitness trainer uh I don't think he had liked it at the time but then I've been Bros with him for so long now that I think he's probably even forgotten about this like and he's been that big brother figure like you know throughout my career in many ways and fortunately then there have been a lot of others as well I think my whole career is an outcome of really smart people coming together and guiding me correctly at like the right point in time but at that point it was all tan and then parall we we just staying consistent with our uploads like I remember it was Tuesday and Friday uh without fail like no matter what happens a video has to release on Tuesday a video has to release on Friday uh I actually have a story again uh so I'm an engineering grad okay and you don't really understand that dressing is important grooming is important all that uh parall we were doing Fitness content so I used to pra experiment the fitness content on my own body understand what's happening and then put it out for the world it was just a standard practice I followed so that time ketogenic diets were a massive wave and it had given me a lot of growth and I got known as the keto guy though I'm not I hate that concept I hate that style of eating I think it's unhealthy for your body it's unhealthy for your mind but at that point I was experimental I was 22 23 years old um so I ended up going on zero carbs I would eat like red meat every single day maybe in every meal um no veggies almost you know like one bowl of veggies um got ripped as okay but my skin and hair went for a TOs lots of hair lots of skin lots of skin trouble so my sister and mom made me sit down one day and they were like listen you're an on you're a media guy now and we're sitting at what like 20,000 subscribers 30,000 subscribers but they they started giving me about my skin and hair like you're grooming like you know that you need to take care of this everything's gone for a toss that was the first time I felt conscious about being in media uh but we had to release videos every Tuesday and Friday so I remember there's one particular ways where I think I broke out too much and my hairfall had increased too much and I was very conscious about my own self image but we had to release a video so I ended up uh calling a friend of mine going to five Gardens which is uh a park near my house and U you know shooting a motivational video of me shirtless from really far so you can't see my face but you can see my body from really far um figuring out uh you know getting tanai in that video getting a uh clip of him working out as well and turned it into a motivational video uh you know and crying feeling conscious and all but not missing that upload date and that was so important back then because that kind of a psychological struggle really toughens you up for the journey to come so we've reached a point now where if you count short content we're probably releasing something like 300 pieces a week wow so but but that is happening because there were certain systems and processes and self-discipline uh in place at that phas irrespective of my mental health irrespective of where I am emotionally you keep going because in in this game consistency matters and consistency compounds a lot but I think that that early phase where you're just all of us are not trained media professionals none of us have done you know courses in this until now like now people do courses thanks to people like us but uh at that point you're learning about media how how does one dress how does one speak how does one look in on front of in front of camera so can be very psychologically challenging uh and that's what I think a lot of new creators go through as well they get overly conscious about trolls overly conscious about how they look uh this can be a severe psychological roadblock if you're looking at this as a 10 15 year career sorry we went on this tangent but but this is this is uh I'm drawing out a lot of lessons from here bro so what I draw out from here is that by the way Tuesday Friday you know why we upload on Tuesday and Friday because I so you upload on Tuesday and Friday so so me and Par I still remember this conversation we were sitting down and I told him Tuesday or Friday video release he was like dude you're so particular about everything why did you pick Tuesday and Friday bro ran is doing it on Tuesday and Friday he must have thought something so let's just do Tuesday and Friday and bro the same thing that you underwent which is not missing an upload no matter what that is exactly what even I went through but during that time par was like dude so by the way when we started growing very fast I thought there is something wrong with the YouTube algorithm because nobody can grow so fast okay bro we were hitting 100,000 subscribers a month okay and everybody is just calling me and asking me dude how are you doing it I was like dude I don't know so I had this I don't know whether it's a trauma or that's uh just OCD I somehow thought that because of my consistent upload of Tuesday and Friday I'm getting growth you know you are the last YouTuber that I know who I who I consider consider a YouTuber okay I've not seen people from your generation grow the YouTube channel there's that girl who does geography now she's another one okay the out of the content pieces that have reached me uh YouTube beinging being a YouTuber was so much more appreciated in 2016 17 I think lots of people don't play this game now but this is the one and only game for long-term content creation for me you know creating horizontal long form content can you grip that audience for that amount of time today's day and age where attention spans are even lower and also to be at it for a very long time because bro the point is uh when Whenever there was a Friday upload so Friday uploads used to be extremely stressful because Tuesday about you had only um Tuesday about you had Wednesday Thursday and then you had Friday but after Friday you had Saturday Sunday Monday you had three days during that time so Thursday night I still remember there was a video that we put out on Airbnb and I had just got my covid shot and I was like somebody told me that with 2 hours you're going to get sick so you just have 2 hours bro after getting the shot I immediately came back home I said let's start shooting and in the middle of the shoot I started to fall sick and I could literally see my eyes going red because during that time I was shooting with a selfie camera from my OnePlus 7 phone on an on an Amazon basic tripod MC because the tripod was not very functional that is when I realized that I'm falling sick so I'm going to miss my upload tomorrow bro I tried to sleep couldn't sleep because it was stressing me out after a certain point I had to sleep woke up in the morning 4:00 a.m. started the light and there was no light during that time so I got in a ring light tried to shoot with it again failed 7 a.m. I attempted again failed 10:00 a.m. I attempted again during that time I was feeling good suddenly the fever had just gone away so then I started shooting I was just sweating like crazy okay so then I had to take a break because there was no AC in the house and uh and because of my light color shirt my sweat was visible so again I had to take a break again started shooting at 11:00 a.m. finally we finished shooting at 12:00 and the upload was supposed to happen at 9:00 p.m. so 12: to9 at it took during that time I had just taken up a skillshare course um on editing so 9 hours I was just completely focused and obsessed with just uploading that video at 9:00 p.m. 8:30 the video got uploaded 900 p.m. premiere after that Premier was done I watched the entire Premier from 9:00 p.m. to 9:15 bro after 9:15 I just crashed I just crashed and during that time my mom my dad everybody was like dude are you crazy like what is this like it is YouTube it's not going away anywhere B was like dude you got to take it easy this is not how you're going to build a sustainable career this is not worth it like no every Tuesday every Friday video to and now we at a position where we don't focus on Tuesday and Friday but still that Banner is still there business case studies every Tuesday and Friday and the reason why I do not focus on upload schedule right now is because now I'm like dude let's focus on quality more because more than the upload schedule it is important that you give people more value so it's okay if you take another day but if you can give them a better experience with sound or if you can add a few things extra there's no hassle with that so let's focus on the quality of the content bro that Obsession and after you reach a certain point when you look back at that phase where you were like grinding bro that is when you feel that gratification of where you've come and what you've become right and right now you're sitting at 78 million subscribers and you're putting out 300 pieces of content but back then you were an artist and from the heart you an artist right and with all these insecurities when you go on to build something a lot of people don't understand there's a lot of blood and sweat literally blood and sweat that has gone into producing what we produce and that is crazy bro again I draw so much inspiration from all same bro you're one of the people that I turn to to learn from at this stage because I feel like in in content creation that learning phase never gets done and you need other players to learn from again football what do you learn bro um for example when you increase the length of your videos you able to still retain the audience so even if you want to talk extremely deep extremely Niche stuff I think you were the first guy in India like to do it so it kind of gives the other content creators that direction that okay this is also possible uh that then just generally I think you're way sharper at like business like if I want business advice for my own you're one of the first guys I'll call plus you're not in my ecosystem which is a very important aspect because no matter how um wide eyed you are no matter how much perspective one has uh people's ecosystems eventually become Echo Chambers when it comes to growth so you have to turn to someone on the outside I learned from Captain Ragu Raman who was your boss I think at one point he told me to always get external perspective and that's been a game changer so you austa sha another guy really look up to uh I think people um are not ready for what augustas sha will do in the industry and I say that because there's a certain DNA in some people uh where they just built for Content Creation in the long term uh and in in one word I'd call that intensity I think a a certain level of intensity is needed in one's personality to go forward in this career and build business and build other revenue streams out of like content creation Back to Football uh there's different formations in football okay uh and when I was growing up a lot of football teams would build their whole team around one player so there used to be this guy called Ibrahimovic who's you know Zlatan right now uh if Zlatan was in your team and you wanted to get the best out of the team you build the whole team around him everyone has to either pass him the ball or even the other players have to be selected based on Zlatan I truly believe that content creation is a very Zlatan Ibrahimovic game uh but that also means there's a lot of pressure on Zlatan he has to deliver he has to up the quality of himself and he elevates the whole team uh here we know it's a team sport content creation you will scale with people around you but they will all turn to you for energy and intensity so that shouldn't go down over time which brings me back to that original thing we were talking about physical fitness like a content creator has to be physically fit uh in the long term truly believe that you know you mentioned uh football and here's where I could think of Michael Jordan and last Dan you've seen that documentary right and in that documentary once before Phil Jackson everything was centered around Michael Jordan and when Phil Jackson came in he asked what's the game plan and everybody told him that Michael Jordan has to be given the ball so that he can go and score bro that's when Phil Jackson told Michael Jordan he said until you think of yourself as the best player in the world you will be the best player in the world but we'll be the worst team in the world to be able to think of yourself as the best player in the world should not come at the cost of undermining other people in the team so you have a choice whether you want to build the best team in the world or you want to become the best player in the world the beauty is if you build the best team in the world people people will always turn to you to try and see if you are the best player in the world and that's where you have the winning Advantage so that's when they gotten Scotty that's when they got in Dennis Rodman and eventually they built a team which is now known as one of the greatest if not the greatest team basketball has ever seen and after that Chicago Bulls never won the kind of championships they did right and Michael Jordan also when he was I think 19 or 20 there's this famous interview whereby he said that uh you know the only thing that I'm expecting to achieve by the time I retire is that uh we going to become Champions at least once and then Michael Jordan's last dance speech over there he says that you know when Chicago Bulls drafted the drafted Michael Jordan I said that by the time I leave we will be Champions today we are five time Champions going for the sixth thank you so much bro what a moment right and that is what I took back from that entire series that if you consider yourself and over here it's very easy to get carried away right because you are there in front of the camera everybody's appreciating you oh ranir you know you're doing such a good job oh ganes you're doing such a good job but nobody really recognizes our Scotty pippens and Dennis Rodman even today who recognizes Scotty pin and Dennis Rodman right but what it is what is extremely important and this is again something that I've learned from you that is if you want to become an entrepreneur you need to have the right guys beside you like you had virage you had rajas I have par and fundamentally what I was always focusing on is that and I still remember this phone call with Pas I was like dude ranir has too many people and we just have each other we need we need more core members and that's where we gotten Rahul again nobody knows about Rahul but he's the one who runs performance ads for us and we are getting the best return returnal investment ever through our Performance Marketing through Rahul and he's the one who actually tells us how should we Market our course and once we started to build this core team just like a football team or a basketball team we realized that I don't have to do a lot of work I just have to focus on the core work and when everything else is standing as a pillar in the organization that is when the organization by self functions with utmost efficiency as well as um consistency and more importantly with efficiency and consistency the quality doesn't drip because when it comes to something like content it's very easy to get carried away and lower the content quality in the race of increasing volumes and in the race of becoming consistent and now when I think back two to three years later I was thinking of myself as Michael Jordan I thought I'm going to be the best content creator in the country but now I say that I have to be the best organization in in content creation so that we can build something at scale for a longer term without compromising on the happiness or the fitness of the individuals who are in this process and more importantly as we keep on growing the growth of the quality of the content or the channel should not come because of the effort put in by me it has to come in because of the efforts put in by the pillars in the organization and that is how by the way bro you mentioned 300 pieces of content a week right uh this is this is again something that I I've taken so many Inspirations from you bro I can just go on and on about it um one and a half years back a lot of these agencies told me um agency friends told me that bro why aren't you doing Instagram I said uh I just checked out Ren's Instagram and I saw that he's doing podcast and that is scaling up very well so that's very less effort but but at the same time you can at least focus on that one hour of content and then you can deliver high quality content at skill so until we start our podcast I'm not going to focus on Instagram at all so I left it bro okay we were at 300K or we left it then we started our podcast and then I said now let's start putting out content this is 18 months later okay 18 months later when we started posting on Instagram bro with a single podcast we started posting seven shots seven reels that also got turned into a LinkedIn post seven Clips along with the main piece of content so 21 pieces of content per podcast along with two high quality documentaries that are going out so now all my social media channels are active and we went from 300K to 600k very easily so again coming back to that whole thing that if you think of yourself as the center of everything you can only go so far but if you consider yourself as a part of something that's much bigger and you put like you mentioned systems and processes at the heart of it you can grow much faster much better and with sustenance at its score right so but my question is bro you know I in fact spoke to anuman and he told me something very interesting about your podcast Strat straty okay he was a part of your podcasting cohort and he told me that dude ranir has an entire Machinery like he is like bang on with his timing and content and strategy because they follow something called the machine gun strategy talk to me about the machine gun strategy okay wow I thought that's a top secret really no it's not it's not it's not I'm happy to share it bro I feel in our industry um you you need to put out your uh learnings because it's too early in the Indian content ecosystem and the guys who are like at the front should be telling the rest of the ecosystem what to do if the ecosystem grows genuinely everyone will grow true so um anyway I'll tell you what the machine gun strategy is um short content is an art form uh but it can be optimized to get views as well the rules of short content change every 3 months okay so this is the basis of it every 3 months that's what I genuinely believe um I think some in some phases long longer short pieces work longer short pieces in some phases shorter short pieces work in some phases people want to know certain things uh about certain topics in some phases people want the short content to be highly edited in some phases they don't want it to be edited so the basis of the machine gun strategy is knowing where short content is at currently now I sit on the advantage of not just producing four podcasts a week but having a library of 700 okay okay so uh machine gun strategy in short is uh if we feel that uh someone has given us a stellar podcast we ensure that all our systems and processes are aligned to make um the short content from that podcast explode on social media and reach everyone's Al algorithm okay how do you do that uh um how do we edit out like all this like how do you make sure that it spreads out to an extent where it's everywhere on social media you you just have to crack the short content so you have to crack the views game let's take an example and understand this have you done this for one particular podcast recently yeah all of them almost now um we if there's a film star see on some level we know every good podcaster knows what to ask I think the between a commercially successful podcaster and someone who uh just enjoys the art of podcasting is that the commercially successful guy knows how to play the numbers game knows that at the end of the day the views matter because views will bring you money so everything that we do first and foremost is centered around getting results I learned this from uh mythpat uh I remember a phase where we went into Niche podcast and he said don't do this you're a YouTuber focus on the numbers so I went away from the niche again because I don't think India was ready for niches at that point and I think you're acing the niche game by the way India's ready for it I was just about to say that bro I'm the anti-thesis to no no this is this is back in 2019 or 20 2020 he I don't again India evolves and you need to know where they're at so the machine gun strategy is great for this year for all you know next year may not work right now uh so this is a demand and Supply angle okay the way Instagram usage has increased in our country as well as YouTube shorts usage uh there's a massive demand for short content from those platforms platforms want to be flooded with content so we just supplying the demand got it so if I were to summarize this let's say there is one piece of content what you do is you produce short form content in such a way that that particular platform gets what it requires in case of YouTube a YouTube short is cured far differently as compared to an Instagram re yeah Instagram is more emotional YouTube is more knowledge based Instagram is more emotional YouTube YouTube is more knowledge bed this literally explains why we have never been able to grow on Instagram bro you can if if you twist your Niche to the emotions of it so if I'm doing like a case study on duai Amani talk about his family struggles you know he didn't have an easy uh passing away so there's always true inspirational emotional business stories got it and this is something that I can actually sense from the timing of your content and I remember February 19th you did a podcast with gar sir way back but then you posted about chhatrapati shivaji on shiv Janti which is on 19th of February then when it com gun mentality yeah and that's when then World Cup happened and then you had content Ready for the World Cup also and um after that I still remember FIFA World Cup it happened and you were there I I'll give you another angle when I have fun with this okay now I know I've built out the Machinery so the machine gun is built out okay all I have to do is point it in the direction I wanted fire oh so every human who's ever watched my content knows what a massive vat Koh fan I am and there was some sland on Virat kohi in the last week my immediate response is I call my guys and say put out all our positive verat kohi content to counter the algorithm but how do you document all of this bro because you're doing so many podcasts like if an editor sits down at the table he's supposed to get into a particular SSD access that particular podcast check where you've spoken about verat and there are multiple angles not not difficult everything's documented again systems and processes like again one layer deep engineering College just teaches you to think in structure I'll actually send my team to understand the system and process bro bro you are an engineering college grad I believe par is also yeah he's also I'm pretty sure you're already doing this it's just how we taught to think uh even our non-engineering grads are taught to think uh according to what engineering College teaches us we take that for granted when we've graduated but like for example even if I'm talking to you if you ask me give me four points about this there's automatically a graph drawn in my head where there are four empties slots and I'll fill it out often when I'm talking to people who have not graduated from engineering College they get lost in that question because maybe they're not constructing that graph of four slots in their head now translate that into the systems and processes of your organization on some level no matter how artsy creative funny bako we get um we are very black and white in terms of hey at the end of the day we're running a corporate organization uh and we're here for the long term we're here to make money we're here to grow and we're here to be number one interesting so the heart of all of this in fact the foundation of all of this is good documentation in such a way that today if a social media Trend comes up you know exactly what needs to be posted because of the documentation that has been done and that's your that's the foundation of your systems and processes and then on top of that when it's combined with good editing as well as the emotional angle like you mentioned Instagram is for emotions and uh YouTube is for knowledge so if I were to picturee this and see how this is going to work with a case study let's say tomorrow there is a lot of slander about let's say hardik panda and you've spoken about hardik panda at multiple podcast the way this algorithm is going to function is that somebody identifies that this is what is the sentiment in the mind of the audience but we need to push positive content about hardik panda because that's what is because I like hardik P because you like hard p and also because it is absolutely necessary bro uh because again it's too toxic so there there there is a dire need for positive content out there so step number one is identify the sentiment of the audience hardik panda is negative so you go positive then what you do is when it comes to positive all the emotional things go on Instagram and and that's where you know you you use music over there which is I still remember manzer NAA is something that you've used multiple times that's the skill of my editors especially someone called akat tiari has been with me since he was 17 years old in when we used to work out of a garage uh that first step not recognizing the ment of the audience that's the actual difficult step oh okay everything else is easy even the edits are easy at this pointed and he's also an engineering grad so he approaches editing and processes as an engineer interesting yeah and our edit room is very very high quality it is not easy to survive in our edit room there is a lot of tough feedback it's a it's not a toxic environment but it's a very Sports mentality oriented environment we're not a family we're a sports team so people are held responsible for things a certain level of pace is required a certain level of intensity and quality is required I truly believe bro video content creators at the end of the day we are a restaurant style business where our food is videos so the cooks have to be of a certain caliber but tell me something what is the turn on time after identifying the sentiment of the audience what's the turnaround time of posting like let's say seven pieces of content together 1 Hour 2 hours what yeah how the editors edited in one hour bro 9 years of Building Systems and processes wow and how many editors work on a particular a real or a shot one person one one yeah but a one one really good editor so we created do you have like a template on which everything is built or does this person start from scratch bro um templates change every 3 months because short content change and who decides on these templates we have regular discussion I'm an editor at the end of the day that's my biggest skill as a YouTuber so Aki and me sit and we'll discuss about the editing switches and um I I I keep trying to talk to teenage editors because I feel like I mean the the batch of teenagers keeps changing every year right you have a new set of 18-year-olds every year so you can pick up a lot from talking to very young guys and girls female editors add a very different flare to editing in general um they they they care a lot more about Aesthetics for sure than the male editors so combination of a male and female edit room is also very very it's a very potent thing that we've learned a little late because traditionally the editors are mostly male I think a lot of young girls are taking up editing now and uh I think they add a very very different energy to like the edits you're you're going to war bro you know you need female warriors and male Warriors there this is so interesting bro I never thought about um Instagram and YouTube short so deeply like the machine gun strategy is insane love it bro lot of notes am I am I making answers too long no bro this is perfect I'm taking notes from this so when I show it to my team they're going to take inspiration from this and I see the way I do podcast is that if anybody watches our content our content should not be watch worthy it should be noteworthy so if your notebook is filled with things school notes and bro I'm not even kidding there are people who post LinkedIn there are people who put out LinkedIn post saying that you know these are my think school notes and they are 300 pages long by 300 pages long and that's what gives me at most satisfaction that I'm able to give people something that they can take that they can take notes from because um after being a part of a shitty education system like this is the least that I can do to make sure that everybody's every minute is worthy enough so all your answers they're perfect because they're giving me enough notes so I'm assuming that if there's a kid who's watching it or if there's a podcaster who's watching this they will take back something to be able to do something much better so now I want to come back to your story so now I understand what lies at the heart of beer biceps the organization it's not beer biceps the Creator it is beer biceps it's rir alad the Entre who's doing all of this B it is not a creative organization as much as it is a systems and processed div organization with creativity as one little part of it but it is laying on the foundation of systems and processes now talk to me about the evolution of these systems and processes in the beginning of your career 2015 you started 2016 the geowave happened and then I think you started growing faster because of you started hit a certain Benchmark and then you started posting in talking at videos just like I do today which is sitting in front of the camera and speaking to the camera Tuesday Friday Tuesday Friday you go on and that is how you start expanding and then when did Monkey happen uh I don't remember now whether it was 2017 or 2018 honestly I think it was 2017 okay yeah it was 2017 April I met vage for the first time because he is two years younger than I am so uh he was just about to graduate you graduate in June and I met him in April literally told him I'll give you 20% cut if you can crack any brand deal for me but why did you choose vaj just we had a work equation in college we had worked on a certain project in college and there's a term that I've learned now uh in it's from the startup world it's called Uh getting into bed with someone something like that it basically means trying to work a little bit on small projects figuring out work chemistry and then taking it forward so again this was a mathematical like decision that we have work chemistry and then bro the rest history like he just he he's also an intense guy he cracked deals based on his own intensity so I think people know the story of Moni I had YouTuber friends there was a need for talent management and we had set up systems and processes for talent managing ranir so were you always like systems and process driven it's gotten stronger with age okay uh we have Manish Pand who you also know he really like kind of rubbed it in he rubbed in the importance of it because he comes from a corporate background just like yourself you guys worked at Reliance I think together so he brought in that corporatization uh and Manish Pand has mentored someone called niket nissel who is who I think you know as well uh niket is also an engineering grad you know kind of groomed on one side by Manish Pand The Other Side by me so he has that balance of art as well as systems and uh mine and his obsession is constantly engineering things better interesting for efficiency because that's the basis of simple machines like what's the usage of a lever what's the usage of a pulley that's what you learn in engineering college is to make your life easier so systems and processes are extremely difficult to construct because it requires a certain level of observation and problem solving but if you're able to do it it can make your life way easier like jti had said this in a podcast with me he said that discipline is very difficult to adopt into your life but the gift of discipline is that it makes your life easier now apply that to a professional environment systems and processes are very difficult to adopt into the organization but the gift of systems and processes is that makes the work more powerful so very crucial again we we talk about systems and processes but it's it's not an easy it's it's something you get better at with time uh experience plays a role culture play plays a role and I might be biased here but I truly believe that engineering grads play a role they do bro they do for sure I'll tell you why and this is completely my opinion because we crushed under so much pressure that we just our survival Instinct is to become more efficient you know there are so many assignments and at the same time there's so much of uh stupid things to do with your friends I'm not using that word but you know what I'm saying yeah about joints joints and mugs yeah there are so many stupid things to do with our friends that um it is important that you have fun at the same time you complete all the that you've got so that you don't get scolding the next day or you you don't get rusticated the next day because uh there's enormous amount of pressure at the same time you're doing something that you absolutely hate doing so you always find the fastest way to complete it in such a way that you're relieved and then you can go back to having fun and more importantly what I also think is that because engineering puts in so much of pressure on you that you understand the importance of not doing something that you love for 4 years and that giv you a crash course and a reflection also in fact I got this reflection that I did Civil Engineering from a very shitty college and every day of my life bro I'm not even kidding every single day of my life and I used to go to that classroom I used to feel like what the hell am I doing every I have I've studied 40 subjects cleared all of them spent a gazillion hours at College bro I couldn't understand a single lecture single and my friends were like they were extremely focused they used to take notes bro you know I used to carry only one book in my bag one book Professor somehow expected that you will have a different notebook for every subject just like school and I still remember there was this professor called Arif bhagwan he came to my desk and uh so on the first page everything was very well written okay all math and then he turned the page bro and I can't even describe what he saw what okay uh I can't I can't say that I can't say that out in front of the camera but it was just some random stuff along with the his own drawing over there which was made by me and may bro it was uh it was terrible bro and thankfully he did not I don't know if he saw that or not but then he just turned the page and this guy started laughing so he's like dude what is happening he was surprised bro he was taken a back okay and bro I was so stupid in college that uh there was this there are two subjects one is uh called transportation engineering the other is called infrastructure engineering so transportation engineering I think you study that in your second year and infrastructure is what you study in your third year bro in my third year I wrote transportation engineering as the name of the subject on my exam paper the invigilator came in and he asked me bro are you from second year or third year and I had a friend named and he's likeu sorry bro and then I changed I changed the subject name bro and my everybody was like dude what is this guy like he has just learned everything for the sake of passing the invigilator is like who is this random kid dude he doesn't even know what subject he's writing for and and I was not surprised because I never looked at the subject name itself in fact when I went for a vaa br you know what my professor asked me she asked me three questions I started giving random answers she said don't you bloody don't talk in English explain this thing in Hindi because I know that you can speak English well but I know that you don't know the answers so you know what was the last question he asked me she told me ganes fluid mechanics was like dude this is the most difficult question in my life and I was just thinking there's this external um external um vaa guy who had come in and he was like dude like what the and I said I'm so sorry sir but I don't know the name of the units but I know the answers and ANW every time I got in I was like why am I always put in this embarrassing situation and that was deep that deep down it was only because of one reason because I did not love what I was doing so I had all the wrong Impressions about myself I felt like I was not focused I felt like I was extremely irritated my mental health had gone for a toss and that's when I asked myself one question am I going to feel like this for the rest of my life and while everybody was sitting down for placements I just asked myself that one question over and over and over again do I want to do this for the rest of my life and the answer was always no I said even if I get a job that's going to pay me 30 to 50K is this something that I would want to feel in my office and 20 years later and that's when I studied the regret minimization framework of Jeff bezus and he said that when you're 0 and you're lying on your deathbed when you look back at the decisions that you've made would you be glad to have made those decisions and even if you fail when you're on your deathbed at least that's going to give you enough relief that you tried something and it did not happen versus you not trying at all and that is when I decided I'm going to get off this and I'm going to do something that I truly love and the moment you find something that you like a little bit you feel like dude this is such a new feeling because for four years you've never had that feeling and then when you start doing it then you're like this is my calling and that grind is still there because you had grinded a lot it's just that it was not in the right direction but the moment you find something that you absolutely love and then you put in that 14 hours of work then you spend sleepless nights then you put in the hustle and then you start bearing the fruit of it that's when you realize that you've come a long way from grinding for the wrong reason to grinding for the right reason that I think is the fundamental reason why I've spoken to so many people so many Engineers who've done some random things bro starting from a standup comedian to an artist to YouTubers the one thing that's very common is that bro I hated College yeah I was grinding for the wrong reason and then when I realized that I could do this for the right reason reasons it gave me enough dopamine to keep going for the next 2 to three years and more importantly because you're insulted so many times by professors by the guys especially guys that you just become immune to insult so tomorrow when the relative comes in and throws at you you're like dude I have gotten much worse than this so I can bear it so that immunity that um I would say Teflon coating to Bear the insult also comes in very handy and all of these things put together the ship your character and they make it so godamn strong that you're focused that you know what you need to do and people people's opinion doesn't really matter so much and that's what gets you going this is why I get pissed off with the question of uh Hey do you get affected by online hate hey do you get affected by trolls it's a question content creators get everywhere and my answer is always the same I tell them I've been through engineering College bro you don't you don't know what I've gone through in my life this is nothing so man like I I also honestly believe that the content creators who are engineering grads are usually more immune to online hate and trolling and I feel it is a skill that this job requires you need to have that little uh thick skin but we've been through engineering bro I was in civil engineering all my civil engineering because they were from uh random Villages or the sons of extremely big builders and they did not give a about English okay and English is like okay so whenever I used to stand up bro classro I'm just trying to just make up for the question that he's asked me because he's caught me doing something mischievous but the moment I stand up and the moment I utter the first word in English everybody like 80 people doing this to you bro hey car English H M bro what is that bro and imagine me delivering a presentation during my final year project where all of these guys are just sitting over here they had nothing against me they would just have a lot of fun making fun of me so I was like so immune to everything of taking things the right way and taking it so sportively that this Teflon coating just eventually became such a handy thing and I'm so thankful for all the things that have happened so this happens in such a way that the trolling and this makes you take things sportingly I've never been trolled as much as you are so I don't have that experience but I can say this for sure that whenever somebody makes fun of me even I laugh with them because it's a good joke A and B because it has been done to me before similarly when it comes to the professors they insult you with a lot of harshness and that literally like screws with your um um um I would say self-confidence you know it's the viciousness that they have towards their own inner child yeah and you can literally feel it because there are professors you know that they are extremely troubled Souls and they just throw all that at you with so much intensity that it gets to you after a certain point and then when you realize that after 4 years that you've gotten used to it then no matter how much toxicity a person has it doesn't drub on you because you're just used to it yeah uh I love going back to college I've only been there like once or twice and the first time and I recruited vage for monk entertainment but uh one of the reasons I try not going back to college often is because I know that if I see certain professors I'll want to throw a little slander and that's not befitting of like a 30-year-old man you know why the can I cuss yeah yeah why the should I like go and affect someone's day negatively but yeah dude like only only the backbenchers in engineering colleges know what they've been through U from the guys from like the professors very very mentally challenging you keep changing as a person but the ability to change just becomes faster through engineering College again systems and processes with respect to oneself and then obviously what you said about uh toughness true have you felt that uh dude I have a very low self opinion and I I have a positive relationship with having a low self opinion but that low self opinion has definitely formed in engineering College I'm very okay to have what do you mean by low self opinion uh thinking you've not made it yet thinking that there's so much of a long way to go uh some would call this whatever Mama mentality you know trying to get better every day but it comes from a place of feeling like you're not good enough yet uh and that genuinely comes from College from 4 years of being told you're a piece of you're a piece of you're a piece of so then it does stick around for life and I've probably not let go of that also because it's become a strength I know that we are here because of self-improvement the need for self-improvement comes from a low self- opinion which comes from enging you know a lot of people often um tell me and uh they also speak about you in the same way that uh you guys do not have any insecurity that is the reason why you're able to put yourself in front of the camera and that's when I often tell them that dude we have so many insecurities that is a reason why we able to get better with each passing video because in this field if you just feel secure then uh your growth will actually stagnate you have to feel insecured and that insecurity should lead to introspection that introspection should lead to better feedback taking and that better feedback taking will eventually help you to become a better person because once you have like a million followers a million subscribers um at least in the society that you live in you are an elevated person you know you have transcended to a different level but that in a way if that leads to security and this God complex as they call it that is the that is the place where you start your downfall right bro but tell me something I wanted to always understand and this is something this is perhaps the question that's going to come from a million other people why do you talk about tantric Yeti and uh also sex what is the logic behind it because if I look at your Evolution you started from Fitness then went to fashion and then there is something that changed over there which suddenly got you into noap and I remember in fact noof fap is extremely popular because of you so from noap to then tantric to God to Hanuman to sex I mean it just doesn't add up but somehow it's worked for you like how is that so to angles here one is that I'm actually a really really curious person and the curiosity is not limited to any topic other than politics okay I I hate politics yeah I hate politics I think it's a great study of human psychology but even the way political discussion happens in a country either it's too aggressive or it's too recent in terms of points brought forward in debates uh and I'm all for Evergreen conversation so even with the podcast I want to be able to record podcast that will be relevant 10 20 years from now and that only doesn't happen within political conversations but in terms of understanding human psychology I love politics I love speaking to politicians to understand the human behind the superhero that the masses know uh so curiosity is one aspect and and I've always been a curious person like um in my childhood the first few books that I read were related to UFOs and to like the the the Paranormal and these are my actual subjects like this is the kind of that I've been speaking about for years years and that I will speak about for years because I just enjoy these subjects it's like always fun to have that little bit of Cinema and conversation uh the second aspect about all these is on the on the surface it sounds like the words like Yeti uh Alien uh noof fap uh boo uh all sex when you actually unlock those topics and go within them which is what a lot of people don't do it opens up a whole realm of different subjects for example um say if you take up the word tantric okay when I say the word tan to you you're probably visualizing a shirtless guy in a black doti playing with powder and like Sparks the word Tantra in our Traditions means technique okay okay so uh I'm a martial artist done a lot of Judo in my life uh Judo and martial arts generally is about physical techniques now be that about exercise or be that about the actual kick punch throw whatever when I discovered meditation in life I realized oh in the same way that there are physical techniques there are mental techniques as well an easy way to understand mental technique is deep breathing or anulom vom pranayam how you feel calm but that's level one breathing techniques can be so elaborate that it can have a very profound effect on your mind your Consciousness your sense of the world your creativity your professional life your relationships all that the word Tantra Loosely translates to technique again so if you actually Deep dive into what Tantra means why are rituals rituals in the first place it unlocks certain Dimensions within you if you put it into practice and experience those things but on the surface level it sounds like tantric and that's why most people won't even go into that content because they are trivializing the subject uh but I I think that the mind that perceives the limitation is the limitation so if you go open-ended into any subject you'll find Value and I've seen that those subjects because of the esoteric depth of it adds a lot more value to my life than for what for me are surface level subjects like Finance politics um what else is surface level man fashion um Etc like I value these subjects as much as I value physical health yeah but that's after doing countless podcasts about this Stuff Etc I do feel like they get rejected a lot just because we are told as a society that as you're growing up when you go from being a child to being an adult you have to reject certain ideas but what if you don't reject them hang on to them Deep dive into them open them up there'll be some value you'll gain for your the reason why I one of those people who often rejects these subjects and the reason why I do it's not just you bro that's most people yeah and I'll tell you also the reason why I often tend to reject these things because of two reasons a I know for a fact that or at least I believe for a fact that that tomorrow it's not going to change my life so much as much as a finance episode is going to change my life or as much as a deeper understanding of what's happening in the world is going to change my life because I can go on and on like you know I've been so selective in terms of the content that I watch from you that I often tend to watch geopolitics economics um politics and anything where you talk about business about beer biceps in general I'm so fascinated by beer biceps the business that some of the other I don't see you as a Creator at all like I do not consume any of your contents but I consume your business Acumen way more than the content that you produce and the reason why this rejection comes in is because deep down a lot of people are agnos as in until there is an incident that happens in their life which showcases a living proof of the existence of certain things none of that really matters and and the people that I've spoken to who often consume a Content they felt something in their life because of which they tend to resonate with it and bro when it comes to social media also you know when I and what whenever you try to post something that is completely out of the box I try to understand what is the logic behind this there may or may not be a logic behind that but then somehow I feel like there is always a logic so I went to Spotify to try and see which are the top 10 performing podcasts in the country so the top 10 podcast top two one was bhagat Gita and the other was something on the lines of lust stories okay and I was like okay so there is and then this was my hypothesis that ranir saw which are the top performing contents in the industry right now one of the best ways to look at it would be to look at other YouTube contents or something like Spotify Spotify is a much more sorted platform because it has very less content over there if somebody is listening to bhagat Gita more than they're listening to let's say some Finance related podcast there could be a very good possibility that that content will do well and maybe you experimented with that and then it just blew up and I also see your Evolution when you started producing podcasts you also started doing vlogging and I also remember that you and Manish sir you went to Varanasi and there was some conversation that was happening between you guys and it was too horrific so I just said let's not watch this at night so what I see you doing is that you evolve so much on the basis of data and Trend that you somehow become a chameleon in the social media algorithm where you just fit so perfectly in with what's happening right now that it eventually gives you more relevance and then that helps you talk about contents that are not so relevant and that's where you become an instrument of relevance so it's almost like a virtuous cycle you pick something that is absolutely relevant you make yourself more relevant and with that relevance then you fuel relevance to things that are not relevant then those things become relevant eventually that fuels more growth podcasting mean one of those things so my question is is my hypothesis right in terms of how you think about producing the the next leap of content um I love playing football with you I love hanging with you but no it's not right uh so I know on the surface it seems that way that like or the bhagat Gita podcast is doing well or the last to I'll do this but in truth I feel like content creation is an outcome of you as a human being uh the only two things I do very strategically are um approaching each platform with its own editing and writing nuances okay and the second thing I do strategically is I've always been a quantity oriented content creator all these are subjects that I really enjoy quantity oriented content creator yes okay um like aasha like um flying Beast what does that mean does that mean you just post too much you're either a machine gun or you're a sniper I think you're more in a sniper mode you're somewhat of a combination but you're more in a sniper mold I'm more in like a machine gun mold so how does that give you an advantage um a AB testing happens faster you're ready to take the L like more more because you're okay to like let a piece fail you're okay to take more criticism so you can shape up your game better then you optimize for whatever you want to do so if you want to optimize for money optimize for money if you want to optimize for fame do that but uh um I think every human has their own natural strength strs and it's important to know that especially in content creation terms of behind the content who is the human and what is that human's natural strengths and then mold your content according to that so even even in football I'm always the guy who runs around more than actually touching the ball like I want to make more of an impact through my stamina than I make through my technique interesting so from what I can sense from this is that you're not a guy who goes outward I mean you're not the guy who goes inward you're the guy who goes outward you don't go from what's happening in the market to understanding what you should do you look at what you want to do and then eventually do it at scale yes in such high quantities that you eventually figure out what does well in the market and then you optimize for it is that correct but w't you ever worried about your image because bro I think about branding and positioning so obsessively that um so I consider myself to be um an Ardent student of Steve Jobs okay I study Steve Jobs obsessively and Once Upon a Time Steve Jobs was famously asked that you know what Microsoft has a 95% 96% market share and apple is not even 5% like why aren't you scaling up and why aren't you trying to match the level of Microsoft in terms of distribution in terms of accessibility in terms of interoperability bro Steve Jobs said one sentence he said that the problem with apple is that we can't ship junk I was like dude this is what I want to do so every piece of content that I put out I overthink I obsess over it so much that I'm like if if tomorrow if I look back at this piece of content and I feel like I've compromised even a little bit I will feel like I've done Injustice to what I've built so I'm so obsessed with that that I do not try too much and every time I try it's very strategic in terms of experimenting those are all calculative risks and they are not there is there has never been a video which I just put out and say but then when I see your approach it's completely the opposite you say let's put out 10 15 pieces of content five or six of them will fly and on the basis of what flies then let's put out five to 10 pieces of content more on the basis of our experiment which will then help us put more contents which will give us more viewership at the same time Del more value and at the core of all this is fun like I need to enjoy these topics so and also about the branding thing uh I feel like branding especially in our country is an outcome of numbers to a large degree something I learned from the gaming world something I learned from Gary minatti all these guys um numbers are deeply respected in our country I do believe that because we're Urban guys and urban women watching this we uh have a western way of looking at things which also has its place I think if you want to sell to an urban audience only this is the way to go you have to like think too much about branding uh if I launch a d2c brand that's very you know like targeted towards Urban audiences I will open up all of Steve Jobs's books and like download it uh but in my eyes I'm not running Z English or Z news I'm running ZTV so like I know that my main game is masses but doesn't that uh make you feel like you're losing your identity because initially you were the fitness guy and then you became the fashion guy and then you became the spirituality guy and now you're deviating even further to be a podcaster so don't you feel insecured about the dilution of your identity like that people take it less seriously yes I think the kind of distribution that we've built and that we're going to build further will make everyone take one seriously how is that bro I see that in how people treat me at events we don't leave see I'm shooting every day so I travel once in like 2 months I go for very very selected events I see the way people come up to me and People's Energy always speaks before their words so very rarely do I meet people who kind of go like oh that guy he's like the you know he's the boo guy whatever and obviously there are people like that from a distance but I'm reaching out to the world's top cricketers the world's top film stars the world's top business professionals at least in India I know I'm doing something right but much more importantly than what people think I'm having a lot of fun doing this so and and I'm paying the bills I have a 60 member organization just helping me with this so again I'm not one of those people to go into like self uh I was going to use a much more crass angle but uh I don't want to gloat uh but if you're putting the food on the table for like so many people we have 400 people working across the organizations and at on some level beer biceps is the opening batsman so I I live a very fulfilled life uh everything's going upwards money Fame numbers clout uh but all that aside I'm really enjoying my life and I don't want to trade away the enjoyment with uh the need for great branding I think the rules of PR are changing very drastically very drastically um the internet has a very short memory and being a chameleon has its own advantages uh I know I'm not in this game for a limited amount of time um there could be a possibility that I could be there for 50 years there could be a possibility that I could go by the time I'm 40 years of age uh so you don't you shouldn't be taking I look at it that way branding and PR as seriously as a lot of PR and branding professionals tell you because they come from an old world which was a lot less moldable I think social media has made media in general much more moldable uh you don't need to be afraid about bad PR phases uh because it will be backed up by a good PR phase as long as your working hard and working towards it and I also feel that um again the internet has a very short memory man so if your numbers are going up uh numbers are distribution distribution is power you will have the ability to change uh a bad PR phase without taking too much tension about it but again what I truly truly insist on is being self-satisfied and having fun with the process if you're not enjoying it it's not worth it uh and I have a little bit of philosophical angle on this which is that every human has two deaths one is where the physical body dies the second is where your name is taken for the last time on this planet so there will be a day like that eventually maybe it'll be a thousand years later but it will happen so you can't take life and career that seriously if you're living life and if you're living your career out as an artist like you have to let your art Express itself also so while the tantri yeti stuff it uh creates its own stir what it also does is it creates a lot of numbers it makes me feel very enjoyable about the process and it definitely unlocks some kind of dimensions in terms of thought and creativity for example I've deep dived so much into Tantra and shastra and all these because of those episodes that seem like they're about ghost and tantrics at the top that it affects my nature of how I look back at my parental relationship as a in my relationship with my parent it's benefited my uh romantic relationship it's benefited all my friendships it's benefited my sense of empathy and then all that kind of compounds and makes its way into your professional skill set as well so there's there's like you know knowledge never goes to waste and just because these subjects on the surface seem trivial or childlike doesn't mean that they don't contain very very deep philosophy and knowledge within it for example like let's just take a Yeti and open up the subject Yeti is supposedly a mythical creature it led me to many more conversations about the Himalayas it led me to conversations with army Personnel where they've told me things that they're not allowed to say on camera classified information Etc and I know so much like background stuff about the about our country because of those conversations that I know what I bring to a room uh secondly like even when it comes the yeti it led me into this deep dive into the meapa that the Earth has lost so all the animals that we see around us right now are 1% of the total animals that have ever existed and you could easily count the yeti as one of those animals uh that we've just not discovered because maybe there's very few left uh you know this whole thing about crocodil is living till 150 years what if the yeti is also a creature like that that lives like for 150 200 years so it unlocks certain elements of curiosity now I link the yeti to the crocodile I can go into a crazy wildlife podcast because I have that kind of a knowledge set so if I'm doing the Tantra and Yeti stuff it's also giving me some kind of weapons that I can use in a podcast with a celebrity in a podcast with a politician in a podcast with an actor so it's basically your inner child who is extremely curious trying to quench his thirst of curiosity through these pieces of information that's the first part and the second part is what goes out there how the public reacts to it and stuff like that but at the heart of it you're doing what you absolutely love you're enjoying the process it's making you money it's putting food on the plates of so many people it's serving so many families so you're like this is what I want to do I'm like I'm having fun and and very importantly I'm making money I think there's no point of money without fun and no point of fun without money so it it goes hand in hand man bro this is completely the opposite of how I think like it's completely the opposite okay so the way I think about every piece of content is that is it is this something that somebody like nikil Kut or some great entrepreneur would watch and take something back if it doesn't cross that bar I will not post it at all and that also results into a lot of um scrapping of content it um my I have a team of four people and they are more than capable of producing 16 pieces of content a month but we produce only five or six we just scrap out the rest 10 because we feel like every minute is supposed to be worthy every minute has to be crafted in such a way that can bring out the true essence of the subject that we covering and uh we also go to an extent where when we make a case study on something like quick Commerce and this is like my favorite case study because we put in so much efforts into it it took us three months to make where we spoke to every single delivery boy spoke to the warehouse guys tried to understand the market even reached out to the founder of swiggy and by the way he turned out to be a subscriber of things cool and I was like so happy about it and every time I have these conversations the kind of pressure builds up saying that you know I have to deliver content which is so high quality that somebody like nikil Kut or somebody like the founders of swiggy will F will find Value in this so when I speak about blinket or when I speak about swiy I have to be extremely careful so that I don't lose that reputation at the same time because it is information about a particular business there is also this Fear Factor that you know I should not disrespect an entrepreneur because an entrepreneur is building something with so much of effort so much of hard work and some r kid on YouTube should not disrespect the kind of work that they have done without having enough data L those there's a lot of those and I don't put you in that category at all one of the reasons that I even noticed things cool in the first place was that there was a sense of deep understanding observation as well as a like genuinity and goodness I think where there's genuinity and goodness there isn't space for slander honestly especially publicly true uh you know like there's so many slander oriented YouTube channels and I'm not talking about roasting I think roasting is cute and fun talking about slander uh they don't know the kind of damage that they're causing their own professional life in the long term correct uh and I think it's it's very important to put out positive energy because it returns and if you put out negative energy trust me it's going to return when you're doing it on YouTube you have that kind of platform imagine building a platform out of slander and putting it out for the world someday you're going to pay the price and the world has enough toxicity that you don't need to add to that and more importantly what I also felt is that when we produce content even when we criticize the government and I get a lot of hate for it that when we criticize the government we criticize them respectfully okay and there are a lot of creators who criticize the government disrespectfully and when I started speaking to a few of these creators who often tend to criticize the government when I asked them if you become the Finance Minister of the country what would you do and I put two or three constraints on them they don't have an answer for example I spoke to one of these guys and I was having this conversation because this guy put out a tweet I asked him um bro so tell me what exactly is a complaint with the government and I understand your criticism I just I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it so he said INF inflation is increasing so much what is the government doing for it I said okay great so you know why is inflation increasing because us has printed a lot of money so if you have a kilo of mangoes over here that are selling for 500 rupees a kilo over there in the US because us has printed money a lot of people have money so they're willing to pay 5,000 rupes a kilo so if you were the farmer who was trading with mangoes what would you do would you export your products to the US or sell it over here for 500 rupees where the customer is crying to even pay 500 rupees he said I would ship it to the US if you ship it to the US then the supply is going to decrease as a result of which you are bound to increase your price for two reasons a shortage B because there you're getting a better price so you'll tell the Indian consumer you either pay 1,000 rupees a kilo or I'm going to ship it to the US so what can Modi G do over here tell me something there is a record which says that every time inflation crosses 10% the government topples what benefit is the government going to get out of this when they know all this data number two the maximum that RBI can do is increase the repo rate so if you increase the repo rate your home loan interest is going to increase then the common people will cry saying that are our home loan interests are going up so because of which we're not able to spend enough money and that's causing a cash crunch but if the RBI decreases repo rate then the inflation is going to increase again if you were the FM what would you do no answer so after a certain point what I understood is that when I am given a chance to criticize the government I am supposed to criticize the government by asking myself one question if I were that person and if I were to listen to this criticism how can I change something constructively and if it more as a coach less as a Critic yes and if I'm not able to change that and if I'm if I'm being criticized for a position that I am in for no fault of mine because of external factors that are well beyond my control then I would consider that to be a disrespectful criticism and here's where my experimenting kind of dies down because I have to be so constructive so respectful to whatever I'm doing that I can't optimize for views whatsoever so I think you are bro so the Bro not really because uh when when we compare the kind of views that we get as compared to other people it's just 10x 20x and what we do is like far limited and here's where there is this constraint that often hits me that why are we I mean this is something that my editors often ask me my friends often ask me why don't you go that route which is going to give you exponential growth and you know of it and the only reason over there is that I don't in any way want to disrespect someone to an extent where uh whatever work they've done that gets disregarded I have something to say but it's a little tough love uh I don't see I literally don't see anything wrong in any of your content strategy you processes Etc but I'm passing on a baon that praa passed on to me and she's the reason that I took up the decision I feel like switching to Hindi will just change the game we've actually started our Hindi Channel I know that that's why I'm like this is as far as my tough love gets in terms of your own dilemma about uh dude bait but how do I take it to the next level you're already doing it so I really think you're already on the right path and uh you'll you'll truly see the power of the Hindi the audience I also genuinely believe that the English speaking audience in our country is not loyal as an audience they'll move on to the next person as soon as they gain value there the reason that the Hindi audience watches content is very different than the reason people like you and me watch cont people like you and me watch content for us uh in the Hindi audience yes that is the case That's the basis of content but they'll watch content for the content creator and there's a certain sense of respect and love and adulation which they watch it with which results in a very powerful uh Journey over time when it compounds so I think the carry on because you're also honestly you know shukan says he's the last of the Stars Ganesh Prasad is the last of the YouTubers what are you saying bro you know when your professor shat on you it it sold in the seed of intensity uh other than austa sha I see the intensity missing okay with a lot of the New Gen of creators but what do you mean intensity you need intensity you need to have that will to take it to the next level not be satisfied grow make money not stop not keep a glass ceiling on yourself um I don't know what's going wrong I I I kind of think it's like Instagram paying really well that's definitely a part of it that we have 19y olds 21y olds taking home like 20 lakhs a month doesn't give one the motivation to create long form content and then build out even further they're very happy staying in that 20 lakh a month range because perhaps the ambition is also just limited to traveling and getting good sneakers and wearing nice clothes and being invited for parties uh and 9 years into this job uh there are definitely lots of parties there are definitely lots of good clothes and sneakers uh but then what the the upgrade on that is just you're invited to a better party you get a better sneaker you get better clothes are you creating an impact on society you know I I personally like my my goal with my career uh my goal with my life is to pursue my spiritual journey fully and dedicate most of my time to meditation and my practice and all that can't do that because I've signed up for this long-term Journey lots of people have left great jobs to be with me left other opportunities to be with me the football guy and me owes my teammates you know a great game um but if I had to like really chalk out what what is my material goal with this uh I believe I'll stop when I have 100 crores of personal wealth uh in in savings and then just allow that wealth to multiply for myself uh and the second point of stopping is uh when I feel so we're working on again this is not me marketing but I'm genuinely saying that this is what it is um we have something called the bbps foundation which has been active for like 2 3 years uh and I began it because I was feeling very empty about my career in terms of Yes I'm Growing but not giving back to society uh we have five or six things that we do through the foundation but again my angle on running a nonprofit organization is that it should be profitable enough to pay for itself so pay for itself and grow so when I'm able to take that beer biceps foundation and make it its own Beast where it's making money as well as fueling itself then I'll feel that sense of satisfaction about my material career so it's just these two tick marks bro what a coincidence bro we are about to start the think school Foundation and it's been a month that we've been ideating on it and we're starting with dog shelter and this is the exact same feeling and I was like okay now we've built something very significant what do we do next let's just build a nonprofit that is so interesting there there's no point of money man so what you're saying is uh most of the creators often lose out on greatness because they often optimize for short-term things like money and sneakers and parties and sex and sex because of which they're not able to get into the next realm of what content has to offer what social media has to offer which is impact which is impact which is uh employment which is impact in terms of not just of what people consume but also about how people think and shaping opinions and narratives you can affect the world through that one Ripple you create that's one genuine learning about uh content creation that I've had M and also because there is so much more money to be made bro like uh I mean I we both of us we don't speak about our numbers very publicly but I know for a fact that I have at least five of the friends who can make 5x 6X more money if they only do YouTube well and you know we were just having this conversation with a few Brands lately wherein they were just telling us that when it comes to Instagram content creators they're not investing so heavily back then they used to which is 2 years back all brands were so bullish on Instagram that we were falling short of sponsor on YouTube and we were like dude we are putting out content which is 10 minute long 20 minutes long so every week things School produces at least 40 minutes worth of content whereas the Instagram creators they barely produce 5 six minutes worth of content the value over here is obviously way higher as compared to there the audience is more loyal there the audience is not at all loyal here you have a link in the description by default there you have to go to the bio and click so the conversion dates are very less here in YouTube the State of Mind of the person while the consume content is about seeking something whether that's education advice or anything over there it's merely entertainment so the state of mind is very fickle because of which the conversion will obviously drop down so why are all the brands going bullish on Instagram bro turns out even the brands were driven by instant gratification whereby they just wanted to show number of clicks to their investors number of app downloads to their investors versus optimizing for the right kind of customers so so this VC money flew in went into Instagram so much that it has literally killed off the creativity of a lot of creators who had the potential to go to YouTube like you and I we had no option like even I for that matter had an option to go with Instagram reals but you know what we took the tough call I don't know what we were thinking but we took the tough call of giving away YouTube giving away uh giving up on Instagram reals and we said let's go completely bullish on YouTube because we are Educators we need to provide value value cannot be given in 60 seconds value needs 20 minutes we will stick to YouTube let every body else make money on Instagram so we did not get distracted over there because of which even today we're reaping the benefit of um of of of building of optimizing for value and long-term relationship with our subscribers as compared to just views clicks and dopamine so this whole thing starts on the brands and this is where I wanted to ask you because you are so bullish both on Instagram and YouTube although you are more focused on YouTube your Ripple is actually showing result on Instagram as well where you've got like what 2.4 million on Hindi 4 million on English which is crazy so my question is when Brands approach their marketing campaign bro when there is such a loyal audience on YouTube when there's a dir of content creators which means they're going to get the maximum visibility why do Brands even today choose to go on Instagram rather than YouTube I know two years back it was all about dopamine but does that make any business sense firstly if someone asked me the business angle on this I would turn to you and like ask you the question because you're one of my Bros in my life who probably understands business with the most Clarity that I have seen but I can give you like a slightly more human and emotional perspective uh firstly I feel the people who are the decision makers for the brands are who the marketing heads maybe the CMO uh they themselves use Instagram more than YouTube that's one massive part of it so I think at at the core it's a human decision that uh now this is one way of answering this question I just feel Instagram usage is a lot more uh Indians are an emotional janta as compared to the West which is much more self-improvement and um you know dry almost Indians are moist so like I think a lot of India's on Instagram that's one aspect of this second aspect would be the brand heads would be on Instagram the third is um if an Instagram campaign is done right I think it can have an impact for the brand and I say that because of what how we have marketed our own on like Instagram terms of uh I have a meditation app we see results on both YouTube and Instagram but it depends on the Nuance of how uh the content is done out are you convincing enough in your sales skills on Instagram as you are with YouTube and tell me about and I know because we had we had this conversation last time offline where you spoke to me about how powerful YouTube is as compared to Instagram for brands and how brands are not leveraging YouTube enough tell me about that yeah um I think it takes a lot to be a YouTuber uh I've played both games very intensely it's thce or four times as difficult to be a YouTuber because that many more skill sets are involved the audience is smart enough to recognize that uh if the audience is watching you for longer than a minute in today's day and age that says a lot if the audience chooses to not watch short content and then watch horizontal long form content that says a lot uh and above all try recalling five or 10 reels or shorts you saw yesterday versus one or two long form videos you saw yesterday it's just a very human thing the the recall value of remembering that is a lot more which is the basis of marketing uh I'm all for Jersey sponsors and Sport for example Manchester United just changed their uh Jersey sponsor to Snapdragon I'm a huge man united fan I went and saw what Snap Dragon is no because it look good on that Jersey and then par there's a narrative about Jersey sponsors being irrelevant Etc dude no you will remember uh something if it's done well if it's in the domain that appeals to you there is a significant portion of the Indian population that turns to YouTube as new New Age television true uh I also believe when we were growing up there was Nat Geo Discovery Channel Animal Planet uh these were the three knowledge based uh channels History Channel would be the fourth uh I think YouTube is a substitute for TV from when we were growing up and you remember some great television ads in the same way you will remember great influence marketing campaigns if they're done on YouTube you may or may not remember them if they're done on Instagram because the recall value isn't strong enough but just to conclude this entire discussion tell me something thing if you were a brand and because you've built level supermind we'll get deeper into it if you were a brand how would you approach social media campaigns where would you choose YouTubers where would you choose instagrammers very subjective conversation okay like every brand for example harpic would be very different from McDonald's would be very different from Level supermind would be very different from uh 1% Club okay um so let's take e as a category and then he'll explore two to three more cat Tech I know that the end consumer someone wants self-improvement so without putting two thoughts into it I put my money on YouTube okay and what would be your split let's say you get 10 crores in budget I put it Tech specifically less than 10% on Instagram and 90% on YouTube you're just talking about YouTube and Instagram right yeah or Twitter LinkedIn no just YouTube and Instagram yeah 90% on YouTube 10% on Instagram uh and I'd start with a small Capital to begin with do my ab testing and then adjust that 90 and 10 into a 95 and 5 or an 85 and 50 m and how would you choose a particular Creator to collaborate with as a brand what would be your criteria try understanding who the audience of that particular creators but with the basis of views and engagement and the engagement can be seen in the comment section nowadays you can buy computer generated comments bought comments so I'd also scan the comment section a bit to understand whether these are genuine comments are these genuine human beings or not uh and another gauge especially when it comes to top creators is try seeing whose name gets brought up in your day-to-day conversations with people who are not from the media World interesting that's a very strong content creator and you want to work with content creators On The Rise so if someone's name gets brought there hey did you see this girl's page did you see this guy's YouTube channel those are the creators you want to work with so I'd actually go very Creator first and quantity second when it comes to influencer marketing G which is I which is what in my eyes is the role of an agency that if a brand is coming to you with a certain packet of money and saying hey take my money do whatever you want give it to the agency and let the agency tailor make such a strong campaign for you based on your end results in mind that you as a brand don't need to look into it that is the job of an agency in my eyes which most of the agencies don't do well don't do but the ones that survive do it the ones that are constantly growing do it uh and and this is a matter of them telling the brand hey you know your idea may not be the best but let me give you another idea so this also brings about the mo of an agency the mo of an agency is when an agency acts less as an intermediator and more as a consultant as a guide to the brands to run their campaigns is that correct and secondly what you're saying is when it comes to an attech brand if I were to summarize what you just mentioned a it would be a 9010 split to start with and then based on the learning it would be 8515 or 955 and there once you choose your once it comes to YouTube while you choose your YouTubers you would choose YouTubers who often come up in the conversations with people who are not of your industry a b you would have a look at the comment section versus the engagement because engagement could be bought but comments could not be bought to a large extent and Bot comons are very evident and three you would play the quality game versus the quantity game which is collaborate with the collaborate with only few creators who truly bring credibility to the brand as compared to too many creat is just spreading out the word also try not working with overlapping creators for one single campaign I think then you're wasting your money as a brand and what exactly would you check in the comment section like what are the three four questions that you ask your team to scan through the comment section to find out what is the sentiment for that Creator I'm talking about just YouTube here okay Instagram comments are a little more lose and chilled out yeah but if someone is willing to take that time and watch a long form piece and then take further time and think and comment that means a content creator has made it to that person's heart for the right or wrong reasons oh wow so if there's a positive comment and there's a lot of positive comments probably means that Creator is doing something very very very right that's the equivalent of a batsman scoring a century that is such an interesting way to look at things bro whereas I have always seen comments as mere engagement but what you're saying makes a lot of sense because if there are let's say 10,000 comments below a video that has got like 100k views that speaks volumes because 10% of them are comments so the numbers are great and when those comments in fact this is what reminds me of my dear friend an mea he's a very small Creator no UI UI very intelligent guy doesn't get a lot of views but the kind of effort that he puts in you know he gets handwritten letters from his subscribers saying that oh you know what an this changed my life I I would work with an mea on a lot of like if I was fully in charge of an agency and I'm not operationally involved on monk entertainment anymore very consciously in order to focus on my content creation career uh but if all those brand budgets came to me almost for like every brand campaign I would go to Ana keeping his audience in mind yeah and he's a legend bro in terms of because I know the kind of work that he puts into every single aspect of his video and he often says explaining to his editors he's like dude like and he gets what 10,000 views 20,000 views and I often tend to ask him that why are you micro managing these tasks which will not give you a lot of returns okay and when I say returns I mean the color scheme he's like it has to be slightly darker 10% darker I said you know bro even I'm obsessed with these kind of things even I think about how students take screenshots and take notes but this is a little too much don't think too much over here and he's saying that entry level phone through Bri I'm using this color bro I was like mind blown and fascinated by the kind of effort that this guy is putting in not for the numbers but for the students and that effort literally shows in like you mentioned in the comment section where students are like showering so much love so much love about how it has changed his life about how it has given their parents more hope because of what they've learned and there was also a lynen post recently which said that you know what guys um courses cannot give you uh returns but anme is this one strange Creator who's putting it all for free and that is the reason why I hate ancha because and in fact the in fact I think the post started with I hate ancha and I was like dude who is hating on an and he's like dude he's doing so much work for you guys that I hate him because he did not exist while I was studying what you guys are studying right now so that speaks volumes and this is something that you brought up which says that when it comes to comment section it's not just a reflection of the engagement but it's a reflection of how much the creator has touched the heart of the viewer and how would you optimize for conversion bro because Brands often say oh you know what we're not getting clicks and uh the brand should have a lot of clarity on why they're doing the campaign are they doing it for clicks are they doing it for sales are they doing it for quote unquote branding do you think uh conversions Could Happen through just one campaign yes I've seen that on level okay again that's a sales game and BR I would consider level to be an exception because level has you okay today level supermind is known to everybody but had you been like heads space without any distribution but with a lot of funding I don't think level would be where it is today um especially because you have this innate characteristic of meditation you fall into the exact brand Persona plus you are good at amplification plus you've got the machine gun strategy so I don't think level will be a comparison um one one angle on level is right now so we we keep a level Superman link under every yeah I've seen that uh but we constitute only 30% of the traffic that uh level super Bine receives oh wow okay which is a great sign for us yeah and where does the rest of the 70% come from Performance Marketing as well as their own distribution Pages as well as uh Word of Mouth at this point so with the first campaign how would you optimize for conversion you're talking about level no uh I truly believe that the have you seen Dragon Ball Z yeah you know how there Super Saiyan 3 which is the final form of Goku so the final form of any salesperson is content creation I think content creators inherently are god- gifted when it comes to sales leave it to the content creator with Clarity either the brands or the agencies have to communicate with the contor and tell them hey hey we want to generate SES hey we want to generate traffic hey we want to generate XYZ if the content creator is one of the top people they'll be able to do whatever the brand wants because they understand their own Community the best there's no way Ganesh understands Ran's community and there's no way ran understands ganesh's Community because you have a certain onetoone relationship maybe only the other person who understands ganesh's Community is uh whoever is helping you on the videos the closest like in in my case akhat who's my um lead creative probably understands it better than n who's the lead business guy and N also obviously has an understanding but my point of saying that is only the people who are see what is our interaction with the customer it's through that video interface correct that is the upper layer of our organization going front end going out to these people so you're communicating with them once a week sometimes much more than that you know exactly where the audience is at due to you being a content creator often you know where Society is at so let the brand put you fully in charge of the campaign and then use basic sales skills I'll take that and then use basic sales skills after a point basic sales skills entail confidence entail actually like having a good product so I me that's also an angle like you should be able to choose a good product as a Creator uh a story and creating a need within the customer for that particular product so while they have trust in you am I able to create a need within Ganesh where I say hey man look at how nice this sweater looks have you ever tried wearing like this color okay you've not cool but you know what when I've worn this color like this is when I get like the most compliments and then suddenly you're like oh but maybe I don't want the T-shirt I don't want the sweater but I want the compliments let me just try it I'll purchase it interesting so you're saying you're actually seeing the complete opposite of what most brands do which is they try to micromanage creators and they end up doing a bad job you know bro ODU is one such brand that we've been working with okay bro you know what OD does ODU does ODU says that this is our future we just want to bring in visibility for this future give us whatever video you think is best same is the case with grow school also and that's because weo is a friend not because he's a brand same thing bro this is growth school we have the course whichever video you think will get us maximum visibility please give us that and we are okay with it bro every time a brand says something like this we operate with minimum pressure but we eventually end up generating maximum output yeah as compared to a brand which is extremely picky and choosy the thing is I've been trying to put out this message since 2017 when we founded monkey and it's not gone through yet the brand world is determined by traditional Masters and business administration grads true who have never created a piece of content who think in a certain way because textbooks tell them to think in a certain way and that's fine but they will stick to the textbooks over what a 25-year-old Creator is telling them and you can't blame them it's just how the world works and this is the reason why you know we often refrain from working with a particular brand because they just become too picky you know when it comes to us we have now reached a point where we just tell no to most brands because they just become too picky not because a brand doesn't have a good product but because they just get too picky and we tell them that guys this will not work out because what eventually what I care about is my team's morale if my team's morale goes down because the brand is being too picky I don't need the money but at the same time the brands who are extremely liberal my team is having fun making the video for them they are having fun getting the results and we are able to upload on time sometimes what happens is that there have been a few brands that we've worked with they push the upload date again and again and again because they're making one or few one or two changes bro they say instead of sign up say click the link I said how the hell is that going to make any difference you think it's going to make a difference but it is not you know uh some sometimes these kind of micro changes some of them make sense to me uh but very often it's a case of someone trying to feel important because they're feeling insecure in the corporate within the corporate structure so uh I've noticed that if I ever sense that and it happens uh you go and have a conversation with that person Express a sense of empathy and say hey I get where you're coming from but this is like what I think would do well and at the end of the day you and me on the same team I'm your Striker you're my midfielder let's win the match bro tell me something now that we've understood e tech let's change this category to fintech now if you were a fintech brand and you worked with a lot of fintech companies as well if you were a fintech brand how would you approach influencer marketing okay first I want to begin by saying that out of all the domains I possibly know uh Finance related stuff is where I'm mostly an amateur okay okay even when it comes to my own money I have very good people handling my money for me and it's always been something I'm not naturally inclined towards but I'll have a shot at it uh fintech also it can according to me it's either to advanced level fintech products which are targeted at someone who understands finance and someone who doesn't understand Finance is the other category broadly speaking so if it's the more casual Financial uh person so if it's the more casual customer you're speaking about about then I would have a 30 and 70 split where 30% would go towards Instagram and if it was the most serious one again I would do 90 and 10 H and most brands are up for the serious audience right and and we're talking about YouTube versus Instagram so 90 for YouTube 10 for insta for the serious fintech and if it's a casual friendly kind of fintech thing then 70 on YouTube and 30 on so you're saying it it depends on the customer Persona or the brand Persona uh both H interesting and when it comes to YouTube why would you go completely bullish on YouTube for a serious fintech brand bro I would go bullish on YouTube for any influencer marketing thing um yeah I can't think of a brand that I wouldn't Market on YouTube firstly H but why do you think YouTube creators command such a high premium when it comes to Brand deals as well as audience loyalty is it simply because of the content that they put out new age television H because I think one more factor that often comes in is the accuracy of YouTube distribution because I don't know I don't understand Instagram distribution that much but as much as I understand YouTube a brand once asked me what kind of content should we produce to hit this target audience I said uh you don't have to hit that particular target audience you just have to make content that is relevant for that particular audience and YouTube will get that audience to that particular content eventually making it a hit so it's not you who's targeting the audience it's YouTube that is targeting you just assume that YouTube is the best marketeer you ever have and because it is enabled with software and AI it's going to get you the best of the results and that's what usually happens and you know what I've often seen is that when we produce geopolitical content our geopolitical audience is far different as compared to an audience that consumes business content and it's quite fascinating because when I meet people at the airport and I ask them about what is your favorite piece of content they often tell me that oh you know what we watch all of your business case studies and when I asked them about geopolitics they didn't even know that I produced geopolitical content bro which is pretty strange the algorithm takes it though yeah I mean there is such a beautiful I would say B foration of the audience also which is strictly business and amalgamation of both business and geopolitics then there's economics then there is CA audience which specifically gets only economics related videos which is so strange and so interesting as well because now the brand can actually choose which subset of the audience that the brand wants to Target for that particular Creator provided the brand understands that a creator has multiple subsets of aans and then when you talk to the Creator you understand which subset you want to Target and accordingly if the Creator can choose the video which can get you the right TG and reach that's when the brand gets a great return so when it comes to something like let's say a Lifestyle brand let's take mobara for example um now if I were to understand this from the outset to me mobara is a lifestyle product what they make bags right they make bags travel bags so if I were to market mura the easy easiest way and I think the most convenient and perhaps the most obvious way that comes to my mind is you just go bullish completely on Instagram where you get creators to post stories you get creest to use the bag you give them bags for free and once people see it once people spot it at the airport eventually it will gain traction do you think over here also YouTubers have an important role to play i' I'd reduce that ratio to about 60 40 or 50 oh so you're saying that so from what I can make out of this let's take one more example for that matter just to understand this better what about of perfume brand same I put perfume in that same lifestyle category okay so when it comes to Lifestyle products you think Instagram will always do well as compared to YouTube again because Instagram is being used from a place of emotion and time pass rather than uh self-improvement I do not put lifestyle products into self-improvement necessarily because um you only approach lifestyle products from a self-improvement perspective once you've made money and you you're trying to upgrade like oh I want to wear a more branded shoe I want to wear a more branded perfume Etc uh I I personally believe that even rich people want to have a time pass phase so the rich lots of rich people use in in fact I think that the richest of the rich uh I've not seen them using YouTube but I've seen them using Instagram Twitter Twitter yes okay uh but uh everyone wants to have fun so you reach out to all sorts of audiences on Instagram first and foremost it's it's that upper middle class and and getting rich still motivated to learn they use a lot of YouTube which also answers the question about why we do yetis and all that because um for example bro I consciously if I'm opening YouTube myself and I earn fairly well for my age uh my intention is to never learn off of YouTube but it's to just explore the topics I have fun with and my feed is mostly Sports okay maybe like 80% Sports and 20% history bro now tell me something you mentioned about the long game you mentioned about building trust you mentioned about you know so many nuances of the kind of audience that exist in this country but in spite of knowing a large chunk of it a lot of creators begin their Journey on let's say Instagram they some people even make it to YouTube they make it very big on YouTube but the first generation of creators that existed back then who were the big shots of YouTube today most of them are not that relevant so what do you think are the most important reasons why creators have gone irrelevant and in the next 5 years what are the reasons why a Creator would go irrelevant let's start with the first question as to why have the ogs of YouTube and the content World Gone Irrelevant in the past five years life bro okay I I was kidding but that's the actual answer I uh I think people's priorities change first and foremost um they're done with the Fame game some of them are done with the money game not everyone wants to be relevant that's a big core aspect of this uh staying relevant is like pouring fuel into a fire where's that fuel coming from are you motivated to be pouring it are you motivated to be harvesting the fuel from somewhere uh for example like the reason I have stayed is because my goals are big materially uh and I'm I don't feel I'm done yet uh someone may be done materially someone might lose them material ambition someone else probably began the game for the sake of Fame and they've reached a certain level of Fame where they are their thirst for famous quenched so honestly I feel on a very very core level it's life it's not that they uh they probably okay with losing their relevance but there's one part of it bro that is people who are content you're saying people who lost their relevance despite want correct lack of reinvention and lack of building teams lack of reinvention and lack of building teams let's talk about reinvention when it's when it's something like infotainment or humor how would you reinvent yourself I'll just take those two okay humor I'd reinvent Myself by going into feature films or by writing a series I think that's the steady progression for an entertainment based Creator like viil wrot humorously o yeah uh I think there's also sustainable money in that if you're willing to treat that as a professional career like I think some of these orange ju gang they're going to be media Legends in 20 years 30 years time because I see them at play very hardworking very consistent with their content releases but at the same time um they're not satisfied huge uh thirst to be quenched and very very naturally gifted at writing and Direction so I feel like all these guys uh you know sorab G focused Indian to name two of all of them all of them are going to do well very hungry for growth Reinventing they have all the right signs so you're saying that it's not about Reinventing yourself on social media but it is about Reinventing the products that you produce themselves yes I in my eyes karanj is a content creator karanj is an OG content creative bro and I did not realize it until tanay bat spoke about Karan Jour and that's when he spoke about relevance he was like dude karanj has been relevant for what three decades now three decades how can you stay relevant for three decades when superstars of that age found it difficult to stay relevant even for one decade did that it is just massive and today because you see the likes of amitab bachan and you think oh you know what staying relevant for five decades is a normal thing but it is extraordinary and how many people of the league of amab ban and even Beyond him have stayed relevant till now or for four decades it's a human caliber but there's also a trade-off what is that trade-off time Human Relationships um mental health content sentiment uh spiritual growth um experiences so much I can go on bro like there there's a there's a price you pay and when it comes to Instagram or YouTube now that we speaking about irrelevance um I believe it is much easier to go irrelevant on Instagram as compared to YouTube do you think that's right yes why so fast Fame can often go away fast as well like if the fame has taken time to build up it stays for that much longer in short but also with Instagram it's a matter of an excess of content creators you're cool today won't be cool tomorrow unless you reinvent and so do you see and in fact it is I think one of the biggest barriers to entry for YouTube is also the difficulty of the content difficulty of producing a 20-minute content versus producing a 90c Content a 20-minute content be that people will watch I think that retention angle is also that's a much bigger challenge sorry repeat the question you're saying I said making a 20 minute video is far difficult as compared to making a 90-second video which is why it is easier for people to remain on Instagram and be satisfied with the kind of money that they're making versus doing it on YouTube because if you look at the effort is to reward ratio correct on Instagram it takes one day to produce a real it gets you a million views whereas on YouTube for the first 50 60 videos you won't get any views at all so when you look at the effort is to reward ratio creators often tend to think that for to produce a 20-minute video it took me 3 days and a lot of production budget whereas when it comes to the same production budget with the same amount of time they could produce 10 odd reels and they could get 10x more following which could make them 10x more money so the equation of UT versus Instagram will never really come to terms unless you start from negative and then go to positive on YouTube whereas with Instagram it's always positive and it will keep on going positive but the point is it will come crashing down very quickly I in in retrospect so one thing I did correctly but it was very very very difficult and brutal on so many levels was to parallely grow YouTube and Instagram I do believe that in the modern day you need to choose one of the games and 99.9% people would choose Instagram yeah because it's just uh much greater reward for much lesser effort also I feel in the modern day if someone starts content creation at this point Instagram is a fantastic training ground for YouTube but the good news about the training ground is that it'll pay you will so are you ready to train and get paid or actually use are training to go into war and go win a kingdom but again it's too much effort bro um parallely with YouTube uh I don't think YouTubers are as celebrated you know as they used to be so there is that cosmetic change that's happened in content creation culture as well uh also to a large degree bro and I bring up your name as an exception to this rule very often I I think that YouTube Bing has become podcasting um there just podcast on YouTube and I I'm I'm running TRS but I sincerely hope that this is just a phas and we go back to seeing a YouTube where there's a much greater variety of content so personally like I'm trying to get into uh content that's inspired by things cool and and and du and Aban new like the kind of content you guys make where it's talking to camera yall are a very good version of what YouTube used to be in terms of infotainment and we don't see that anymore uh so at some point like I want to go back into that style of cont and my personal the subjects I love are sports history and spirituality I don't know if I'll like explore sports but at least history and spirituality one can pretty much what we what we're doing on Ras it's that it's history and spirituality without R's face being there so that's its own team which has been groomed and all that at some point I'll D say I'll want to go back into that content you know like I love podcasting because it's a very U rewarding job on a 100 levels be it your sense of self be it your networking be it Money numbers Etc um uh but I I truly miss like just youtubing you know vlogging motivational videos I miss so much bro I still like make such stunning stunningly aesthetic motivational videos like there's a there's a filmmaker inside me you know I would personally at some point there is this creative dream of wanting to direct a film as well but that part of me would get very uh satiated through creating motivational videos and those videos still get views even if our fitness videos don't the views are still clocking up on those bro I still remember when you went to take that award from the Prime Minister you did this and that was too good bro because uh after that I was wondering why did you do this and then I realized it's such an iconic gesture that it first of all stood out secondly I think after a few days one of your uh editors actually put out an edit in such a way that when you did this he actually brought in Arjun and uh it was a message again playing on the emotions it was a very strong message I was like dude like this one gesture speaks so much and the kind of Storytelling that it was inculcated into it was too amazing man and you know when you see all of those pieces come together like like I said to me you are like a big godamn case study so I keep studying every small elements and I try to dissect and see what you're doing right what you're doing wrong and I also remember I was telling Neil from IX that uh ranir has built such a brand Persona that he's collaborating with a freaking stapler brand bro I don't know which brand that was I think it is I think it was Staples or something some random I've done rice I have done staplers I have done thermos flasks thermos flask I remember that was your first corki uh sponsor segment right and I was like dude what the hell is this guy doing I love collaborating with these brands that one wouldn't expect I've collaborated with a tire brand uh you know and we always create something quirky for these weird Brands my question is do you reach out to them or do they reach out to you at this point they reach out to me bro it's been but back then when you were collaborating with a tire brand or with the stapler brand what did you do I mean back then we create we back then we collaborated with only Fitness Brands and fashion brands you know because that's directly linked to your content from back then uh but at this point it's incoming which is why again like you know we were talking about branding some time ago and then you like do not worry about how it's perceived at the end of the day uh it's been a very conscious effort to place my name within the branding so be it switching to Hindi content and not calling It Be by Hindi but r alad or be it creating an IP called the ranir show uh I am the brand so and my own evolution is the Brand's Evolution so I have to just focus on not it up and like not letting my teammates down not uh letting go of a reputation that's taken time to build uh and that boils down to Life Choices um so just don't do the wrong in life and the brand will take care of itself bro I'm taking back so many things from this conversation and uh I think we should pause this conversation because I know for a fact that this will go on for the next 3 hours but I think we should do another episode on this so here are my most important takeaways number one do not be a Creator be an entrepreneur don't be the person who who produces content be the person who produces systems and processes that then eventually go on to produce content and uh when it comes to posting be extremely consistent with your posting at least during your initial days most importantly you have to understand that you have to become the Talk of the Town and not just a viral Trend because eventually when it comes to your reputation a lot of creators will go viral and they'll hit a million views but the ones who actually make it to the conversations with the common people they are the ones who are OG content creators when it comes to brands brands have to give creators enough leverage and enough freedom to be able to express themselves the way they want the brands that do not do it are the ones who actually end up suffering more in spite of putting in more work as compared to Brands who don't put in any efforts into their campaign just tell the Creator what they want what they expect and let the Creator do the job that they do best when it comes to YouTube versus Instagram if it is a Lifestyle brand that you are trying to promote then Instagram is the best if it is anything that has to do with serious audience which pays well which wants to upgrade itself in terms of not lifestyle but in terms of spirituality or in terms of self-help YouTube is the best way to go as a Creator what I understood is that you're supposed to follow if not machine gun strategy some strategy the machine gun strategy is also laid out very well which is basically built on the foundation of great documentation which is to be able to understand the sentiment of the audience identify what type of content we have which can resonate with the sentiment of the audience or go against that sentiment and then put out that content strategically on time with no delay whatsoever but push them in volumes if you are somebody like a podcaster that eventually resonates very well with the audience if it is Instagram it has to be more focused on the emotion if it is YouTube then it has to be more focused on the knowledge and the same information can be put out with emotion on Instagram but with a lot of knowledge on YouTube and that eventually drives extraordinary relevance which you can then use to then make other things relevant and that's where you enter The Virtuous cycle where you try to build a media house and that media house then makes things more relevant so we enter a virtuous cycle where anything that you cover becomes a sensation anything that becomes a sensation is what you cover and when it comes to sentiment of the audience I also understood and this is something that's coming from my observation is that music also plays an important role and um for reference I'll actually put out if possible the chhatrapati shivaji Wala real which is on February 19th when it is chhatrapati birthday you put out a reel on chhatrapati shivaji which is coming out of a podcast that you shot probably a year back and yet that got a million views within a few hours I was actually observing the engagement over there it got a million views within a few hours and that is because of the systems and processes that you've built similarly when it comes to World Cup also you had your content ready and by the time India won the world and people were on Instagram everybody wanted to consume that content to keep on getting that juice and your content served as an instrument to get that juice when it comes to spirituality Bo PR and stuff like that the logic behind that is that it's not bound by or it's not driven by data it is driven by the inert it is it is not driven by data but it is driven by the Curiosity that you have which eventually helps you produce content at scale it just so happens that Bo PR and Yeti tend to do well as a result you tend to do it repeatedly over the due course of time as far as relevance is concerned it is important that a Creator often reinvents what they do time and again that may not necessarily be about content but be about the products that they produce today they could be producing videos tomorrow they could be producing documentaries a day later they could be producing otd products or they could simply be writing for otd platforms or films a classy example being the orange juice gang or viil who produced humorously yours and all of this put together what I understand is that if you be a Creator you will be relevant for 2 to 3 years and you can survive on the viral Trend but if you really want to be in this for a long term you have to become an entrepreneur and understand the products and services that you produce from the core as far as quantity is concerned from what I understood from all of this is that quantity is not a problem but direction of the quantity is the biggest challenge if you just produce content at scale you may not benefit but if you produce at scale learn from it understand the sentiment of the audience and then optimize your scale further which is again produce things in very huge quantity but this time cat to a particular sentiment of the audience it tends to do insanely well as far as Instagram versus YouTube is concerned you cannot have infotainment on Instagram because it's more about emotion and people just trying to chill out so even though you are an infotainment Creator you you're supposed to keep Instagram separately and you're supposed to keep YouTube separately just like for a brand emotion is important on Instagram and knowledge is important on YouTube even you are supposed to give out knowledge on Instagram on you just like a brand even you are supposed to give out knowledge on YouTube versus when it comes to Instagram you're supposed to focus on your emotion another takeaway that I'm actually going to jot down and this is extremely important for all the creators is that brand Persona building is when you showcase your Evolution quite openly for you it was the motivational videos and I literally know every phase of your life not because I followed you but because you tend to tell the story so repeatedly and with such strategic intervals that if a person is following your journey they know exactly where you are which builds resonance and that resonance fuels relevance and that relevance eventually helps you give better return on investment to the audience as well as the brands in terms of the conversion in addition to that another thing that I learned over here is brand pora building and the more Dimensions you have to this brand Persona the better the better range of products can you promote for example you have your meditation Persona because of which you've got level superm mind you've got a creative Persona through which you're fueling monkey you've got you've got your podcasting Persona because of which you are now able to have beer bicep skill house you have your video editing Persona because of which now you're also able to put out a video editing course and um back then because you had your Fitness Persona you're able to promote Fitness Brands through all of this because everybody has seen your lifestyle evolve you're also able to promote lifestyle Brands like um wow skin science or the stapler brand and because of the visibility that you're getting on Instagram and people understand you as a person not just as yet another Creator the resonance is helping you promote even more lifestyle products which is fueling both relevance as well as Revenue so all of this put together what I also understood is that each one of these units have to be treated like an individual Machinery it's not like 20 random kids just trying to build something you have a team of 60 people 100 people in total 60 just for beer biceps who are building this Machinery in such a way that they are now running four brands ranir aladia ranadi on Instagram beer biceps and beer biceps on Instagram all of this put together when they work in sync that's when you get relevance Revenue as well as access which then gives you more relevance and more revenue does that sum up our conversation yeah I feel a little naked right now yes uh I think 2024 and the coming one or two years is about breaking algorithms and it's not as difficult as people think so uh I truly I mean this might be a bias statement and this is something I just told you off camera but we need more podcasts that come out of this country um not just as a means to further one's content creation Journey but as a means to increase India's soft power so I I truly believe that this wave of IND podcasting has just started right now one last question that I had is and we left out this conversation multiple times you said that I'm one of the last YouTubers why is that bro you need a correct human trait cocktail to be a YouTuber and I don't see that in people other than you even even like the upcoming people uh as we spoke in the conversation the other people had keep in that category is again orange juice gang why because again just extreme levels of hunger for growth m if you were to point out three things that I have to always retain as attributes of creating this whole thing what would those three attributes be you're saying attributes which you already have that should always be which you think you know makes us different um Clarity with deep Concepts I think that's something you do really well and you're able to teach like head honchos of like very big organizations also a lot about sometimes their own job these are conversations I've had with top corporates about you second uh um your OG core team members like I think that like long-term growth will always actually be much more an outcome of their growth than your own okay uh because they'll force you to grow and you there will be a limit to how much one can grow alone uh so these two the clarity with depth the core content uh and third is um I think there's definitely a part of you that enjoys the art of this like and by Art of this I mean everything from uh the clothes you choose to wear to the way you'll tailor make a video you know to like the cut scenes you'll choose to use suddenly you'll keep like one news clipping in a video all that is like these little things are art uh and I feel there are a lot of algorithm Merchants out there and you can be a very very very big Creator even whilst you're an algorithm Merchant uh but at some point an algorithm Merchant gets tired of being a content creator and then there's the artists who are doing content for the sake of content so I put you in that category uh yeah so uh Clarity with depth co- team members and the artistic side of things thank you so much bro it's been a pleasure to have you over here and I just had a lot of fun shooting this man thank you so much it was it was very difficult for me to stay serious all the time because I was just telling my teammates over here that you know R is coming over here my biggest challenge is going to be not laughing and not saying controversial things give them a trailer of the we speak about on a plane or on the football field uh those conversations are not the things cool Ganesh you know but G and I just hope that never comes out so soon maybe one day maybe one day but it's too good by this is the this is the episode that I love the most because it's extremely comforting and this is the episode that I was least prepared for by the way and it has turned out to be one of the lengthiest epis no no I'm glad I'm glad bro keep teaching us keep teaching us how to get richer brother for sure bro thank you so much love you too bro genuinely uh don't have much more to say than what I've already told you in the past and what I said on this episode but uh very few people are here to stay very few probably you can count them on the palm of your hand and you're one of them thank you so much bro and I don't just say that on your podcast I say that pretty publicly behind closed doors everywhere there's few people there's like yourself there's austa there's orange juice gang um yeah at least out of out of the people I hang with and like that I've gotten to know uh at least for me what I look at as the right cocktail to be a Content oriented entrepreneur it's there in very few people thanks a lot bro means the world to me for sure [Music] [Music]