Transcript for:
Challenges Faced by Afghan Interpreters

When you first took the job as an interpreter, what did you think would happen? I thought that maybe the album was going to be finished, but they already killed my relatives and I'm afraid that they're going to catch me. We're in Kabul coming to meet some interpreters, some of whom I've met in Helmand.

I've spent weeks and months with some of these guys in the worst places at the worst times. They're all saying that life is now in danger. On paper they meet all the conditions needed to be given a visa but none of No one seems to know if that's because it's just a messy bureaucracy and they're getting lost in the system somehow, or if there's been some big policy decision saying we don't want to admit that these guys are in danger. The interpreters played an essential role during the war in Afghanistan, providing vital bridges between foreign forces and local communities and intelligence on the Taliban. They volunteered because they believed we would defeat the Taliban and rebuild their long-suffering country, as we promised to do.

We will not fulfil those promises and are now withdrawing, leaving most of the interpreters who helped us behind. And now they are being singled out as traitors and spies. Many have already been hunted and killed.

I tracked down an old friend who is now in hiding. We agreed to meet in a small secluded house on the outskirts of Kabul. I haven't seen him for two years.

All I know is that he tried to get a visa and failed. He went to Pakistan to try and get a visa and failed. I'm looking forward to seeing him, but I'm also worried about, you know, what his situation is now, because he clearly wants out, and he can't get out. Hey! Hey!

Good morning, buddy. Good to see you, buddy. Good to see you. Long time, no see. Give me your hand.

You've grown some hair. Thanks. I spent five weeks with Soroche in southern Afghanistan in 2010. We were in Sangi, the most violent district of Afghanistan's most violent province.

US forces would have been lost without the help of the interpreters, who spent years on the ground. front lines serving each new set of troops as they rotated in and out. Can you go talk to her and just let her know that I don't want the children to be scared. You know what I mean? Let's just let them know what we're going to do, okay?

He says, no, I don't need anything else. Just please secure my place, you know. Do not blow up, you know.

I know they're really sad because of every day blow up, shooting, fighting in there. It's so hard. So...

This is life in Afghanistan, see. You were on the front line, you were in the worst place in Afghanistan. Every day I saw my friends being injured and I saw their dead body. Making friends and seeing their dead body, that was really ridiculous. I don't want to see anymore.

or my friends going to die. When you first took the job as an interpreter, what did you think would happen when you finished? How did you think it would end? First, I thought that maybe the Taliban going to be finished and then this country will become peaceful. But day by day, the Taliban getting increase and they getting powerful.

Because of that, they're looking for me. I hear they already killed my relatives, which work together, working with ISAF. The Taliban knows that they're working and they entered to their compounds and killed like two weeks ago. Because they were working for ISAF, the Americans? Yeah, my relatives told me that, hey, it's right.

Be careful, the bad people looking for you. And please run away. I'm afraid of that day which the NATO leave Afghanistan, the United States forces leave Afghanistan.

It means we are done. They going to catch me. They going to probably cut my head off.

Probably... You know... Are you sorry that you chose to take a job as an interpreter? No.

I'm proud that I work with the NATO and the United States forces because they've done lots of good jobs. They came from far away to help Afghanistan, rebuild Afghanistan. Right now I need their help and I wait for them, but I'm sure that the United States is going to help me because I know the United States government is not corrupt. but maybe it takes a little bit of time.

Your loyalty is incredible. Yeah. I hope that they show the same loyalty back to you.

Hopefully. So... Thank you.

Thanks. It's good to see you again. Shuffling between different homes within Kabul's patchwork of neighborhoods, we met with two other former interpreters who also served with US forces.

Every interpreter I interviewed carried a folder of documents that they protected as if their lives depended on them. This mass of paperwork is for the Special Immigrants Visa Program, or SIV, their one and only chance to be granted safe passage to America. But even when they have everything in place, they still find themselves being rejected. Or just waiting in limbo for years.

There are four conditions here, and you've met all four conditions. The individual is a national of Afghanistan. He's been employed by the US government.

He provided faithful and valuable service to the US government. And he's experienced ongoing and serious threat. Each box is crossed.

I'm approved from the SIV. Got the passport. And everything is done.

After that, they just give me this card. You will not be re-interviewed, you will receive in several months your visa. And this is nine months ago, so what's the problem?

They deny my visa. If you said to an American that you worked for the US government, provided faithful and valuable service to the US government, and is now experiencing a serious threat because of your work, I think most, especially the soldiers and marines, would say he should get a visa. End of argument. I and my team wish to thank the individual for his service to Afghanistan. He's continued to support to our team, the US Army and Task Force Phoenix.

That's the captain and also when I just work for him. He's really sad now. He know the situation.

I told everything about that. I work for him one year. So a major in the US Army is saying, I firmly believe your work protected and saved lives. Yeah.

How many of these letters have you got? That's when I... One, two, three, four, five, six...

Like 40. 40? Yes. The embassy have seen this?

That's the embassy seen that. But still, they just deny my visa. That's UN Defense Secretary? Yeah, the Defense Secretary, he came, motivated all the soldiers, all the turps, because of the hard work that they did. We have faced ambushes, IEDs.

I have been injured and... Nowzad province, one of the team members worked on an IT that I was a little far from him. He died and I got injured.

It injured my private part of my body that I cannot have children. Now we are living a very bad situation of life. From Kabul I cannot go anywhere, not to south, north, north, east, west, nowhere. When they just attacked my house, that's the proof and also I have lots of pictures. Sorry, this is bullet holes in your house?

That was a bullet actually shot. I have the empty hole as well, because of the interpreter job. If he find me, he will cut my head.

Across Kabul, I met with many interpreters, all in hiding, who shared the same story. Almost one and a half kilometer away from my home. Those insurgents or Taliban start shooting me in my car. Then I got really seriously injured and my brother got killed.

And one of my other villagers got killed in that car. So can you go back to your village? No, it is not possible. It has been like over 11 years that I have been working for the U.S. government directly. And therefore, people in the area really think that I'm the one who is telling the security forces to search the houses and do some operation in the area.

The Taliban are around in Afghanistan, but nobody is able to recognize these guys like they are Taliban, you know? I'm facing threats, not only Taliban, but my relatives, about my neighbors, about the people that are around me, living around me. They talk like you're no longer a Muslim and you're an infidel.

The Taliban, they are telling us all the time like we are the United States spy. And if being accused of being an American spy weren't enough, people also think wrongly. The interpreters were paid well, making them targets of thieves.

They came inside our house and they stole everything. They treat us like we are working with the United States and you have a lot of money, give me the money, where is your account? But during the couple of years, the only money we gained, like it was about $15,000, $14,000. It's not a good money for us. If you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't have taken the job?

No. If I knew that the coalition forces were leaving, I would never choose this job at all. I'm lost by destiny. We are in prison in our own country.

All Fridays, all vacations, all holidays, we stay at home. So I stay all the time at home. These interpreters had all the usual documents, but amongst them was one startling letter, containing evidence that the threats come from everywhere.

Wait. It was not uncommon for some of the Afghan National Police we trained to have ties to the Taliban. Yeah, that's true.

Because of this, some students would threaten interpreters with death for helping coalition forces. That's true. The police? Yes.

The American trained and funded police? Yes. But people, I think, would expect you to have threats from the Taliban.

Yeah. But from... from... Good guys.

Yeah. This is going to ruin the US image. Simple. If the government forces we've trained and funded, who we claim are ready to protect the Afghan people, are actually colluding with the Taliban and threatening the interpreters, then truly the mission has failed. While our leaders will never admit this, surely it isn't too much to ask that our most loyal allies be offered protection.

The stakes couldn't be higher. If I asked any Afghan what will happen to the interpreters after 2014, what would they say? They'll tell you that none of them will be alive anymore.

They have killed a lot of interpreters. Everyone knows. Everyone. It's not like something hidden.

They've killed him and videotaped him and put him on YouTube. The Taliban's official spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid, agreed to an interview, but only by phone. What is the policy of the Taliban towards interpreters?

What will you do to them then? These threats are very real. No one knows how many interpreters have been killed so far, but several have been brutally murdered on camera.

And used for propaganda. If you don't get visas, what will you do? Borrow money, give somebody to take myself out of here.

To be smuggled out? Yeah, because I have no other way. If I sit here, I can get killed. But you would leave your wife and children? I will leave because I see every day the situation day by day going to worse.

because Americans leave Afghanistan. For that reason, I told my father, if you just take care of my family, I will move somewhere, like other interpreters, I will just escape from this country. Many interpreters have already given up on the visa process and turned to smugglers, who can get them into mainland Europe with a fake visa. But when the price is as much as $20,000 per person, the few who manage to raise the money end up with nothing.

For those who will take any way out they can get, there are cheaper but far more dangerous options. Starting in Kabul, interpreters pay smugglers to get them into Turkey. Once there, they pay an additional fee for a boat trip to Greece.

From Greece, they then try to sneak into Western Europe. But many never make it that far. The journey is fraught with obstacles and interpreters, along with thousands of other refugees, often get stuck along the way.

Broke and without official documentation, they end up living in places like this city park in the centre of Athens. It was here that I met another ex-interpreter who worked for the US military from 2004 to 2007. He didn't want to be identified. I find the smuggler.

I spoke with him, I want to go to Europe. I sell my wife's jewellery. You sold your wife's jewellery to get the money for the smuggler?

Yes, yes. I told him how much do you need to arrive in Germany. They said I needed $18,000.

I told them, sorry, I can't find that money. He said, how much do you have right now? I told him, just $8,000. He said, that's not enough.

His $8,000 got him to Turkey, where he was then smuggled to Greece on a small and overloaded boat. After three months of living in the Athens Park, he was told to go to Patras, where the penniless and desperate refugees go when they have no other chance of escape. Show us where you were sleeping? Yeah, on the ships, on the grounds, not just on the ground.

Only me, lots of Afghan people sleep here. Oh, you're sleeping on this piece of wood? Yeah. And inside this small rooms.

Yeah, so they put a blanket on and then plastic, and then put it down with rocks. For protection from the rain. How long did you live in these boats for? Slept in many, many times in these boats.

The other big ones. Just across the street from the shipyard was an abandoned mattress factory, where hundreds of Afghan migrants used to live. We washed our clothes over here, and sometimes ourselves we washed it here.

This is like your bath, shower, everything? Everything is there. So this used to be a mattress factory. So there's still people living here now? Yeah.

Well, he said when he was here there were 500 Afghans living here. All bags, baggages, clothes belong to these Afghan peoples. The drop in the number of refugees living here was due to a recent government crisis.

There are lots of commandos or police attacking to make the Afghan people go back. From the mattress factory, the refugees look for opportunities to hide within commercial trucks, which they hope are heading into Western Europe. Put yourself on the truck.

So what, you try and hide underneath the truck? Yeah. When you drive to Italy?

Sometimes, sometimes on the wheels. Yeah, it is dangerous. Too many people were dead.

And the driver doesn't know? No, no, no, no, no. If they know him, they call police.

Many times the police catch me and take me out from the tracks and they hit me, kick me to my ass. The refugees are deported, sent to prison, or if they're lucky, manage to escape Greece and get into more welcoming countries like Sweden or Germany. Mohamed and Aziz also fled to Greece from Afghanistan, but they were caught and sent to a detention centre for 18 months. What was 18 months like when you were in prison? It was a very, very bad situation.

Is it a prison or is it a detention centre for illegal immigrants? It's a camp. more bad than prison because the prison has some possibility but they're no they don't give you good food they say we cannot you don't have possibility nothing nothing you know when they catch me i was in the prison about two months my family don't know nothing about me after two months i had possibility to take my move and i called them and they say where are you are you alive i said yes i'm alive When they released, they were given asylum.

And this is my political asylum. Now we have paper and they release us from the prison, but now we don't have place to stay. We don't have bread for eating.

We don't have money to go somewhere. We don't have money to take tickets for bus. And finally we find this place and we come here.

They now live with three other Afghans in a section of Athens made up predominantly of recent immigrants. This means constant harassment by locals, the police, and members of the far right Golden Dawn, who blame immigration for Greece's economic woes. Five people living here. Five people sleeping here? Yeah.

And this is the bathroom? Yeah. I don't have warm water. No warm water at all?

Yeah, every day I wash my body with ice water. You have no fridge? So there's no milk, no eggs, no...

So all the money you earned when you were interpreters is gone? Believe me, it's down to zero. It makes me crazy many times. We think here, we sleep here. How was our life and how is now?

And you're in this situation because you worked with the foreign forces. Did you ask them to help you? They knew I didn't have time to do that because they shoot me with a gun. They attacked me, the Taliban.

Because they recognised you, they knew you were an interpreter? Yeah, because they warned me. They gave me warning many, many times. They tell me to help them. You are Muslim, you are Pashtun, you must help us.

You must give me your car with your card. Because with my card I go to the camp of Americans with the card. And they told me, we pay for your car and for your card, give us.

And I understand they use bad for bad things. I said I cannot do that. They said if you don't do that, you will have problem.

Aziz's car with his security pass could have been used for an attack within an American base. This loyalty didn't help him get a visa to the US, but it did make him a target for the Taliban. Of the tens of thousands who have worked for the US in the past decade, there is no evidence that a single one has aided the Taliban in any so-called insider attack.

How do you feel now towards America? Because you helped them and they asked for help and now you need help and... If you were in my situation, what do you think?

Yeah, I would feel betrayed. I think my life is finished. You've had a lot of serious hardship.

How do you feel now about your decision to work with the Americans? No more. No more want to help the Americans.

They promised many things with the Afghan people. They're liars. I request for another Afghan people to please don't help the Americans. Don't work with the Americans.

A minority of interpreters, so far less than 30% of those applying, have been granted visas. But often only after extraordinary efforts by American veterans who took an individual case into their own hands. This is beef.

And then on here, I'll tell you when you can't eat it. That's got pork in it, so you can't do that. They have your wings too, so don't worry about it.

Okay, that's fine. Yeah? I knew that's what you wanted, was wings, so. Yeah, I know. You try burnt ends though, alright?

But just small pieces. You can have a bite, that's fine. You're going to love it and then you're going to want the whole thing.

I guarantee you. Alright? Army veteran Matt Zeller fought years of red tape to bring an Afghan translator to the United States. He says that Janice Shinwari saved his life on the battlefield. The trip to the U.S. was made possible because of Senators John McCain and Jeanne Shaheen.

I met Janice the first week I got in Afghanistan. I didn't... Realizing a week later he'd be saving my life. This mortar round hit and about maybe two, three meters away from me and it sent me flying into this ditch.

I turn and it's Janice and he's just shot and killed these two Taliban fighters who were creeping up from behind me to get me. And if he hadn't been there, I'd be dead. And I looked at him and I said, brother, I promise you, I'm going to do whatever it takes to repay this debt. I'm going to get you to America.

Janice's actions made him infamous in Afghanistan and a highly symbolic target for the Taliban. They told all the Taliban units, they sent my picture, if they see me in Ghazni city or everywhere, they should kill me. We put together his visa packet, we get it all arranged, we submit it to the State Department, and both he and I thought it might take, you know, a couple of months at the most. How long did it take to get the visa? Three years.

Of sitting around waiting with no response whatsoever other than, well, we're still looking into it. Forgives the fact that he has been fighting for us for seven years and saved my life and the lives of four other U.S. soldiers, and has been the personal interpreter for 12 U.S. senators. That apparently isn't good enough. They actually had to dot all their I's and cross their T's and make sure beyond any shade of a doubt that he's not a bad guy. The only reason that he even was eventually given his visa is because we took it to the press and made it stink and the State Department was looking embarrassed by the fact that they had been sitting on this guy's paperwork for three years without coming to a decision.

Matt says the media storm he kicked up can't be replicated. And yet there are still thousands of interpreters who have been waiting even longer than three years to get a visa. Because of the attention that Matt and Janice received, they are now contacted regularly by other interpreters who need help. Like Ajmal, who had just arrived.

He had fled suddenly because the Taliban knew he'd been granted a visa and promised they would not let him leave Afghanistan alive. He was homeless and was sleeping, for now, on the dining room floor of a soldier he had worked with. Do you have any idea how the Taliban found out that you were given a visa?

They know that where you work. I got a call that I know that you got your visa and I will not let you to go in. And I didn't even say goodbye to my close friends.

Yeah. Because I don't, I don't trust exactly. Because of those threats, he borrowed money from friends and family and bought tickets on the next flight out. While we were sitting and talking to Ajmal, he received an email from the US government.

Thank you for confirming that you have arrived to the United States. In order to qualify for Department of State Resettlement Benefits, a civil recipient must arrive to the US on an arranged flight. As you arrive to the US on your own flight, you are no longer eligible for Department of State Resettlement Benefits. As such, your case has been closed. In this case, the threat was so big that he was left.

Yeah. Because the doors are locked, you cannot make it back here. It's stupid, right? Madness. You left without applying for refugee resettlement benefits because the Taliban you were afraid was going to kill you.

Let's see if we can get your benefits back first. I mean, that's the first thing. We have to, you should, normally, like, we can get the IRC to help you out. They provide housing to pay for it and some money. Let's do that.

And we're going to take care of you, right? Thank you very much, sir. That's you took care of us when we were in your country, so this is our way of saying thanks. You're not gonna be homeless, you're safe now, welcome to your new home.

Thank you. Matt Zeller and these Afghan interpreters provided Ajmal with a home, a bed, and some money to get him and his family started. Far more help than he got from the US government. The interpreters also have allies in New York. IRAP, the Iraqi Refugee Assistance Project, ...of four lawyers and a network of law students who work pro bono for Iraqis and now Afghans seeking refuge from the dangers they face because of their alliances with America.

When was the first time you were threatened? 2007 was the first time they were connected to Taliban. What are the numbers now?

Like roughly what proportion of people who apply are actually getting the visas? Since the end of... 2013, less than 20% of the visas available up until that point had been issued. This might be a stupid question, but why not just have a program where everyone who deserves a visa gets a visa? I think it's not a stupid question and that it's a question that needs to be asked.

I think there's a lot of bureaucracy built up and that, you know, to get through bureaucracy, you need people who are really willing to make something a priority and that are... Our government has not made this a priority. We're not allocating the resources necessary to get this done in time to save people's lives. I mean, you're looking at it, you know, and... What, you mean you four?

Sure. I mean, it's mind-boggling that no one's really come up with a good reason why these guys shouldn't be giving... given visas immediately, and yet... No, it's death by a thousand bureaucratic paper cuts.

A lot of the background check stuff happens stateside. And it's divvied up amongst all of the agencies that have a part to play in intelligence gathering. And none of those agencies have any incentive to click yes on their part to play in the background check process.

And DOD doesn't consider interpreters to be veterans. So the Department of Defense has largely declined to be involved in this. Wow. And yet every single veteran I've ever met would say these guys were probably the most essential tool. Yeah.

And how do you feel just personally, like working on these cases every day, as Americans, knowing this is how allies of America are being treated? It is really hard, I mean, when you're talking to these guys on the phone and you're getting their stories. And they've worked for the U.S. for nine or ten years. And you're like, You're listening to everything they've gone through.

They might have suffered from IED or been shot or their family might have been attacked. And you're listening to their story and all of a sudden you hear they've had one polygraph failure test. And you know right then that's almost an insurmountable obstacle to get over to actually receive an SIV. It's really hard to know what to say to them.

Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger is himself an Air Force veteran of both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He's part of a small bipartisan group of senators and congressmen who have come together to improve the legislation for interpreters. If an American was stuck abroad somewhere, facing a serious threat, and there was a very complex set of paperwork needed to be filled out to get them back, what do you think would happen?

We would move heaven and earth to bring them back. That's the one thing about America. because America never leaves Americans behind.

And so when it comes to the folks who do interpreting, who have fought with American soldiers, they may not technically be Americans, but they've put their blood on the lines with their American brothers and sisters in a fight. And so I think... I think we ought to be moving heaven and earth to bring them here too. Never to put down the contribution of anybody that fights, but the contribution of translators in some cases even beyond because they put their family in harm's way too. The reality is they've already proven their mettle, you know?

They've already proven their loyalty, their allegiance. Many of them have been under fire. I couldn't imagine being promised something and then finding out that it's very difficult to achieve. But still, of the people, of the Afghans applying for a visa, roughly 20% only have actually got the visas. Do you know?

why the number is so low? I think some of it is they have to go through background checks to ensure that somebody's not using the opportunity to be a translator, to find themselves to come into the United States and cause greater harm along the lines of 9-11 or something like that. But we've never had one single incident of somebody coming over that had been involved with American forces that has turned into a terrorist. You can look at the partisan fights out here in Washington, D.C., and there's plenty of them there.

all over the place. But when it comes to this and the idea of America's commitment to people that have fought with us, you could be against the war, you could be for the war, it doesn't matter. Republican, Democrat, left and right agrees that we ought to follow through on our promises.

Two months after we filmed this interview, new legislation was proposed which would expand and improve the SIV program, making it easier for interpreters to get visas. Matt Zeller and the IRAP lawyers were heavily involved in drafting this new legislation. Without an extension of the program, our failure to help those who helped us remain a dark spot on our reputation abroad and hinder our ability to obtain cooperation in the future. Every day around the world, in military and diplomatic and development situations, we have foreign nationals who are part of our team.

And they need to know That they can rely on us if the situation demands. Other questions? Yes.

Hi, I commend you on all the changes to the law introduced today. I was recently in Afghanistan and interviewed a number of interpreters who meet all the conditions to get visas, but they're waiting three, four, five years in many cases. I just wondered why you think it's taking so long and what could be done to speed the process up because obviously as you all know people will die if it's as slow as it is now. It's not without challenges. These people are burdened.

They're under-resourced. And this is the easiest thing, but I think focusing attention, focusing authority will help break the logic. The work goes on, and with your help, we'll get this legislation through. Thank you. It's incremental.

It's not enough, but it's a start. And at least it's something. If this law passes, the number of visas that are going to be available are just going to skyrocket, and this process will be streamlined, and hopefully, you know, within a year's timeframe, two years'timeframe, we'll have gotten the majority of the folks out of the country. I mean, that's the goal, and that's the standard that I'm going to hold them to. But just a few weeks after the press conference in D.C., bickering amongst the Republican House leadership meant that no legislation regarding immigration was introduced.

The current program runs out in September of this year, so thousands of interpreters will soon have no chance of getting a visa and will be left to the mercy of the Taliban. Matt and Janice called their friend, one of the interpreters I'd interviewed in Kabul, who was still in hiding. And he had some bad news. Hey, brother, how are you?

Yes, sir. As-salamu alaykum. Hey, what's up? How are you?

Alaykum as-salam. We don't have the electricity, it's a little bit dark here, you know that's Afghanistan. For no reason actually, we just use the small lights like this.

But yeah, in a week, we don't have the electricity. Now the situation, that's a very bad situation. There is no income, sir. The reason I just went outside, like a taxi driving, and also just going outside. Taxi?

And he's working as a taxi driver? A taxi driver, yeah. So he's visible.

Because I need it now. Yeah. I just, I need to work. I cannot stay at home because there is no income.

I have a big family. I have three daughters, my wife. That's incredible.

He's not hiding anymore. I mean, at some point, you have to do what you need to do to take care of your family. And then, a startling announcement.

Last night I just received a call from President Karzai. He just released many, many of the prisoners from Bagram. Me and Janice, we were in Ghazni. We arrested lots of them. Did he say that, like, Karzai's just released a bunch of Taliban prisoners.

Did he say that you guys had a role in arresting them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, who do you think they're going to remember first?

The interpreters. Yeah, they're not going to remember the American who they know they can't get back up. They're going to remember their fellow Afghan who was standing there next to a guy like me who helped put them in prison.

No nothing. No security. We are stuck.

I don't know what's going on. I don't know what will be happening. I don't actually know when my problem will be solved.

I can only say on behalf of my country and everybody you ever worked with, I'm sorry. What we're doing is entirely wrong. It's reprehensible. It's a disgrace.

It's an embarrassment. And it's something I am profoundly, profoundly upset about. And I promise you, I am not going to stop fighting for you until we get this resolved. I really appreciate from you sir, you did your job actually. You've done so much for our country.

You deserve to be sitting here with Janice and I as an American. I'm sorry that we are not upholding our end of the bargain. I really am. Ah, crap. That's it.