hello and welcome to the most important interview for the economy I have with me Governor Reserve Bank of India Mr Das Mr Das thank you very much indeed for giving us time really grateful for this now everyone every viewer and today the viewership is like really teeming would want to know about interest rate Cuts please don't tell me aligned to the Target inflation aligned to the Target we heard that after that we've had you know Pell saying that we cannot keep rates too high we had an ecd cut and much more important domestic core inflation has come before below 3% so what would you guide you see I'll be very forthright I'll be very straightforward first of all I mean good afternoon and namaskar to all your viewers I'll be very forthright in fact it has made my Endeavor and effort throughout to be as forthright as possible and not to sort of uh try and camouflage the real issues by giving some you know some generalized kind of reply now when you talk of uh interest rate cut now of course everybody always at any point of time everybody talks about interest rate cut there is another whole lot of people uh who are the depositors the silent depositors who are you know who would be affected in a different direction now that is one aspect now when the inflation is at 4 you know our inflation the last print was 4.7% and uh the June inflation is expected to be you know out tomorrow that is also expected to be as per the surveys done by various we services that is likely to be close to 5% so when we are at five and our Target is four I would feel it is too premature to talk about interest rate Cuts now some C Banks do some kind of advanc guidance saying that you know it is not far away or you know we are getting close something like that that was my ask yeah but the issue is the overall economic environment globally not just in India globally and in India it is so uncertain to talk in terms of interest rate cut that I will do it uh you know uh you know one quarter away or two quarters away you say something and then you have to sort of take back whatever you have said today so basically it is the uncertainty which is one aspect second thing is the CPI headline inflation continues to be close to 5% in fact as I said according to the surveys done it's likely to be again expected to be close to 5% so therefore from that context I think it is too early to talk about interest rate cuts and I would rather not give a you know any kind of forward gu guidance which may you know I said it I think somewhere else I would not like to any kind of uh uh I would not like to give any kind of forward guidance which would lead uh the market players and the stakeholders and others to board the wrong train okay now I'll look at it this way see there were two MPC members who spoke about the neutral rate now just a word to our viewers The Reserve Bank and all central banks look at the difference between the interest rate repo rate minus inflation that gives the real rate now the real rate at the moment is 200 basis points if you look at your one year ahead inflation forecast 4 and a half we are at 6 and a half now do you what is the neutral real rate according to you we thought we will get it in the bulletin the NPC members think it should be 100 basis points what do you think you see with regard to neutral rate let me use the word uh neutral because that is much more accurate uh the neutral rate first of all as you know RBI a few years ago our research teams had done a study According to which the neutral rate was about 1.6 to 1.8% then immediately in the aftermath of the covid somewhere in 2021 our research teams in the Reserve Bank they came out with a number which was9 to 1 to 1% let's take it as09 or 1% now again our research teams are working what is the you know what is possibly a neutral rate the main issue with neutral rate is that it all depends on which period you are looking at now and neutral rate also is subject to so many structural changes which uh you know which happen in the economy now let us say the you know the uh in between we had the covid pandemic so that has a that had a structural impact on the economy and had an impact on the neutral rate so neutral rate came down to 1% the other uncertainty is that neutral rate also depends on what is the potential growth yes you are assuming because that is a very you know important determinant of the neutral rate so it is whether your inflation is at Target and whether you are at your growth is at potential growth level that is basically the you know place where your rates are neutral now so therefore subject to it is subject to so many uncertainties it is subject to so many structural changes we did one analysis immediately after the covid now the next analysis is being done I think it should be over in a next couple of months or so once that is out once that is completed we will release the number now coming specifically if I can you know answer your other part of your question now coming to you know this monetary policy decision Etc they are saying 1% yeah you see at the end of the day neutral rate is subject to so many uncertainties it is also a theoretical construct policym in the real life policy making in the real world has to be driven not by a theoretical construct an abstract theoretical construct if I can put it that way but has to be guided by the actual numbers and what are the actual numbers the actual numbers here are inflation yes at four whether we are at 4% and growth Where We Are today inflation is at 5% headline inflation is at five we have projected a growth of 7.2 we are still quite a distance away from our Target with regard to inflation growth is holding you know is holding uh you know is holding quite well and growth is 7.2% so therefore you have to make policy making is being made in the real world and you have to go by observable numbers not by a theoretical construct but would you say the economy is growing faster than potential or is it growing at potential at this point in time you see economy when you talk about potential growth I mean this question also comes up that is what is India's potential growth I think with regard to growth what is important is not to look at the number per se but to look at the direction of growth I have said elsewhere and it is just I have quoted the facts it's not as if I'm saying anything new the the last 3 years GDP growth is an average of about 8.3% for current year 25 of 2425 we have given a projection of 7.2% and there are many drivers of our growth which are playing out their role the momentum of economic activity the momentum of growth in the Q4 of last Financial year that is January to March was very strong and the momentum of economic activity in the current sorry in the quarter ending June that is the first quarter of this year also continues to be strong so given this I think 7.2% which we have given at this point of time we it looks very much achievable and again if you look at the you know if you look at the growth from demand side or supply side now supply side would be your basically how your industry is doing how your agriculture is doing how Services is doing services are doing in demand side if you look at let us say how consumption is doing you know the private consumption public consumption or rural and urban consumption you look at investment you look at your rning weak no sir sorry consumption is running a little consumption let me tell you okay since you are asking me let me put it this way so far as the supply side is concerned agriculture is expected to do well in the current year good Monsoon and the season is looking good agriculture is expected to do well for the current year so far as Industries is concerned the manufacturing sector is doing very well well the iip numbers are very much in the expansion zone for a very you know for considerable period of time for past so many months the lest iip numbers are also not iip I'm sorry the PMI numbers I'm sorry I mean the PMI numbers the manufacturing PMI as well as the services PMI have again you know they're remaining uh they're higher than what it was in the previous month and uh Services is doing very well from the supply side in fact our service exports have also gone up strongly overall service sector activity at the moment is very strong now coming to the demand side you act asked about consumption Urban consumption has been quite strong for a quite some time and it is remaining stable rural consumption which was lagging behind has picked up in fact it was out there in the media that the fmcg sales rural fmcg sales have picked up and given the fact that we have an expectation of a good Monsoon and incidentally the N demand has also fallen and considering that we are expecting a good Monsoon and the monsoon is now you know very much active in many parts of the country the rural purchasing power thanks to a good agriculture will also go up so Urban demand is holding stable rural demand is picking up and is likely to improve the third component on the demand side as you would know is the net exports our exports have picked up yes Services exports are very strong so if you put all these things together I think what we are looking at is that India is on a trajectory of you know higher growth and I said it elsewhere that I think there is a structural momentum to our growth drivers and we are moving towards 8% growth I said what I've said is that we are moving towards that so therefore I'm quite sanguine about India's growth coming specifically to the potential growth rate on potential growth rate I would like to say it is the direction of growth which is important not the exact number whether it is 7.2 or 7.5 or 7.7 no you know the threee average looks good also because the previous was a contraction so you got 1 19.7 and therefore the average is high I took a 10e average it comes to 6% I took a 20year average annual is 6 and a half% do you feel in the next 3 years or so we will be substantially higher than that you see when you look at time Horizons you said 10e period and 20e period in the last 10 years there were structural breaks like covid pandemic was a major structural break if you take into account the last 20 years you had some structural drivers by way of let us say reforms like GST IBC uh monetary policy framework you know introduction of the MPC framework and all that so that was a kind of a structurally they were positive but structurally negative where the covid uh and the commencement of the war in Ukraine then sudden squeeze in external sector demand and all that but now we are getting out of it so therefore I think again a 10e average and a 20year average you have to Discount out these kind of structural uh idiosyncrasies idiosyncrasies or impacts and then look at the growth momentum so far as our current scenario is concerned let us say postco postco also I think the growth numbers are gradually you know the base fact the base uh what do you call statistically the base factors the base factors are also gradually evening out they're gradually evening out that's why you see current year 7.2% not 8 uh something but better than 6 and a half you would say I mean since certainly certainly you expect in the next three years okay in fact I would expect the uh you know International agencies and others uh I mean I think some of the rating agencies have also revise their growth projections upwards and some of the internal so more upgrades are likely more upgrades are likely even the international agencies also you know which are expected to give their projections in the next maybe few weeks or months let us watch what they are saying but I see clearly the upward uh TR you know growth is on the upward trajectory okay then let me come back to the interest rate question is uh what one factor holding you you back is the asset inflation the perceived uh froth in the stock markets is that holding you back on rate policy also not so much I mean let me not I would not say not so much but let me say we watch all aspects of the economy including the stock markets more from the point of view of financial stability yes what kind of spillovers it will cause to the overall economy so we look at the stock market scenario whatever is happening in the stock market or whatever is not happen I mean basically the stock market scenario by us we analyze it from the point of view of more from the point of view Financial stability coming to inflation coming to rate uh hike or rate cut coming to monitary policy we are governed by our inflation growth by Goods inflation no I take your point what I'm only saying is does it worry you that you should not cheapen credit when the markets seem froy no I mean uh so far as the that's what I said that is we look at uh the kind of spillovers the stock market or for that matter any development in any part of the economy what kind of what kind of spillover it will have to the entire Financial system and to the entire economy whether it is stock stock markets or the bond markets or you know so many components are there so many segments of the economy we look at what spillovers they will cause now so far as the banking sector is concerned we are very closely you know we monitor all banking meaning the credit sector or the credit growth all that is you know this segment is concerned we very closely watch this position in fact much closely than it was uh you know a few years ago much more closely than a few years ago and whenever we see possibility of a you know whenever we see some early signs or whenever we feel that a few months down the road there could be a problem in this particular sector or sub sector we add and an example is the unsecured credit where we took action last year in no and we increase the risk rates and the results are there to see okay that's exactly what I'm saying see the fendo volumes uh was something that troubled government RBI and sebi and sebi has appointed the padavan committee uh on it so do you have this fear that bank money could be fueling uh the stock market rally and therefore is there a case for higher risk weights or even to keep the interest rate you know on watch you see so far as bank money going to sort of create some you know giving some boost to the uh to the stock markets Etc is concerned uh the you know the exposure limits of the banks to the stock market individual borrowings from let us say nbfcs which were very very high earlier for participating in IPOs or for going to the stock market you know uh the IPOs or for fpos whatever even there we have put a limit of 1 CR it was all done some two years ago it's not something we did yesterday so therefore at the moment so far as the from the point of view of the credit sector there are no major concerns okay you don't think fresh uh controls are needed and in any case banks have their own uh you know os's monitoring only some amount of you can say some amount of uh unsecured credit may go into the stock Market may go but so far as unsecured credit is concerned we have already come out with you know we have provided for additional risk rates and the overall growth of unsecured credit has started moderating so you don't think more is needed that I cannot say as and when something is because it all depends on the numbers and the future outlook so we keep on constantly evaluating as and when some measures are required I can assure you that the Reserve Bank will be proactive okay you you're not done with risk rates depends on how the situation plays out okay all right let me come to the other big uh story where Reserve Bank grabbed the headlines the dividend you gave a very high dividend of 2.1 uh trillion rupees uh to the government uh you would have some desire as to what you want from the budget uh would you want it to be used for fiscal deficit reduction what would your best ask be I mean it's only a wish well I will not give you the answer which you you want but I will give my answer now so far as the dividend payment is concerned we cannot link it to our it cannot be linked to our expectation from the budget it is provided in the RBI act yes that the Surplus has to be has to be transferred to the government yes and the Surplus has to be transferred after making all the provisions required and the Surplus has to be transferred now as per the recommendations of the Bimal Jalan committee we have an economic capital framework it is principle based it is Formula based there's a framework for it at the end of the year we just calculate following the guidelines and the principles laid down the you know the ECF framework this economic capital framework laid down by the Bal Jalan committee we follow that and do the calculation and whatever is the Surplus that comes out that automatically flows to the No No let I let me complete so that automatically flows to the Govern and so we have it's not a matter of my discretion or the discretion of the central Board of The Reserve Bank it is principal driven it is Formula driven so therefore so far expectations from the government is concerned let the budget be presented no no I'll tell you is not I know you're making it sound formulaic but you know as a central Banker if inflation were high you would not print so much money and give it to the government because inflation is behaving itself it has been fall falling from the highs you could give you know you could you apply the formula if inflation was high you would not have applied the formula what I'm saying is when you give 2.1 trillion you make life difficult for Governors coming after you no no I disagree it becomes AED I disagree with you when you say if inflation were you know lower yeah if it were higher you cannot give such a b you are saying that we would not applied the formula the question doesn't arise you look at this the Bimal Jalan committee recommendations came in 2019 in the middle of 2019 calendar year yes we applied it for calculation of the Surplus transfer for 1819 for 1819 the money which was paid in you know next financial year was 1 lak 76,000 cror that was the alltime high at that point of time then subsequently if you look back at the last 5 years after that there was one occasion I don't remember when it was 30,000 it was 30,000 30 yes yes I remember that so how did that happen 176 did not create expectations so we after that we gave 35 sorry 30,000 CR and if I again remember correctly it went up to something like about 999,000 or 1 lakh but then again it came down to about 57 56 you know around that so therefore there have been you know ups and downs in the dividend payment so it is entirely formula driven whatever is the number that comes out and uh no government will no Governor will be under pressure and in any case there is no such expectation from the government also the government is fully on board so far as the you know economic capital framework is I'm still trying to make you say something about the budget and and in any case as regards printing of nodes the printing of nodes depends on the requirement of the larger economy we don't notes only to sort of what I'm saying is if the inflation would High has well settled it has the economic I agree that the precedent may not be it has well settled and the fact that over the last 5 years we have given 176 then 30 again gone up again come down it proves my point point taken sir but I'm still trying to get something uh in terms of your wish list from the uh budget for the simple reason that you know deposit are deposits are growing by 12% credit is growing by nearly 16% there is you know a hunt for deposits and bankers and those who deposit money in Banks genuinely feel that Equity Gets A Better Tax treatment there is this capital gains uh debate that perally goes on do you think that credit deposits need a better tax treatment no I would not like to speculate on any aspect of the budget I also would not like to sort of uh give out what are my expectations from the budget as I have shared with you earlier and with the media earlier also y whatever suggestions if at all whenever we have any suggestions with regard to budget or any other issue we convey it to the government but you don't think on the budget I would not like to you know of say anything okay even outside the budget Bank deposits are struggling because money is getting drawn into the stock markets so there is a crib that we are losing because we have a tax penalty see there is an interesting thing of uh you know that uh you're losing to stock market if whatever goes to the stock market ultimately comes back to you know it comes back to somebody's uh deposit yes if I'm selling the shares and you are bu it remains in the banking system it remains in the banking system the time you know so therefore uh uh deposits are not growing the credit growth is higher and this is an issue we have been discussing with the banks even in my last interaction with the public sector Banks uh and the private sector banks in fact with the entire banking sector this issue was discussed in depth between the RBI and the you know the CEOs of the banks okay okay so the banks will deal with this issue okay well now let me come to yet another issue uh since we're talking about deposits we have to talk about debt there is this Indian inclusion uh into the index uh the bond uh the JPM Bond index there will be a steady flow of money and even otherwise Equity flows are very good but because of the debt flows do you think it can be managed in the normal SCH scheme of things or do you think something extraordinary like an omo sale or uh you know MSS or something will be needed no you see we have uh multi multiple instruments uh you know at our disposal to deal with uh situations of uh you know excessive inflows I mean there are options ofos there is option of uh the standing deposit facility we do the VR variable rate reverse operations so we have multiple instruments at our Command and we will use them as time requires but specifically about the inclusion in the bond indices you see it will happen over a period of time it is going to happen over a period of about 10 months or so over a period of 10 months it will happen and I would believe that some of the money which was to come during this period has already come in even you know once the announcement came money has started coming in so therefore part of it has already happened whatever remains will come in a very you know will come in periodic you know monthly basis it will come so what 1% every month huh so therefore that is not something which uh you know worries us that is something which we have managed in the past and we'll be able to manage it I don't see any major disruption uh on that account okay I'll tell you uh one of the things about the way Reserve Bank manages the currency there are obviously unexpected inflows and outflows is this terrific stability in fact for some months together it was only moving between 83 and 8330 for several months and then of course you allowed it to fall a bit doesn't this lead to complacency among importers and exporters isn't that a danger that worries you they don't hedge enough a you're talking about hedging yeah now hedging uh so far as EC RP is hedging on their behalf there somebody may think like that I mean somebody may think like that but I don't think it will be like that because first thing is that uh so far as the ecbs are concerned they are fully HED so that component you have to keep out then there is whole uh you know there is whole uh automatic or natural hedging you know people who sort of who are export who have export income so they have their inbuilt natural hedging so far as the overall hedging numbers are concerned uh for some time in 23 it looked as if the hedging you know the unhedged portions were going up it did look that way but uh from January onwards from January to March if you look at the numbers the unhedged part of uh Forex exposures the UN hedging the part the unhedged part has started coming down and the hedging has gone up so the businesses and the corporate houses are doing their own uh assessments and uh they are taking a call and they are doing it and it is something which we constantly monitor also last quarter on onwards so not last quarter I mean first January onwards for the LA you know it has started picking up okay so you don't worry that RBI keeping it on a tight leash is uh no we are not keeping it on a tight leash believe it Market perhaps or some people may think that you know we are only keeping it a kind of a range it is not so actually one of the rating agencies even mentioned it that it is like practically a managed yeah I mean there are yes I'm aware about it but look India has changed the macroeconomic fundamentals of India are today much stronger than it was a few years ago macroeconomic fundamentals are very strong the growth momentum is very strong International investor confidence is also very strong JP Morgan Bond index inclusion also means that you know the uh flows will be there our huge Forex reserves also gives confidence to the international investors to invest in India that India is in a position to service to meet its external payment obligations so you have to look at the so-called uh you know stability of the Indian rupee in this background so I would say it is more to do with our overall stable strong fundamentals than anything else Reserve Bank I again would like to stress we only manage excessive volatility okay okay but do you think given the exactly the reasons you say that there is a very good chance of a rating upgrade it should have happened even earlier I would feel it should have happened earlier but yes I think uh it deficit is higher compared to other deficit our fiscal deficit is higher compared to other countries in the Triple B minus but it is on a you know the government has announced a consolidation fiscal consolidation po path yeah and the you know the interim budget gave a fiscal deficit of 5.1 and next year 25 26 it's supposed to be 4.5 according to the road map which government has given things appear to be moving in that direction so I think uh rating upgrade uh I would I mean it should happen yes it should have happened earlier but it should happen but I think now internationally also yes there are some investors who go by the rating and the cost of borrowing also depends on rating I'm not saying that the rating doesn't play but I think more than that the large investors internationally today do their own you know do their own analysis and take their own call whether uh you know how much they want to invest yeah markets are ahead of rating agencies I I mean I think you put it very appropriately markets are ahead of rating agencies yeah the companies corporates tell us when they borrow uh let me come to the unasked part of the monetary policy The Stance The Stance has remained unchanged for a goodish bit uh what do you think and what will make you change it you see The Stance has been uh you know we have called it withdrawal of accommodation and there is a reason for that Target is 4% we are nowhere near 4% we are still around 5% but the expectation is that it is moderating and it is indeed moderating but the pace of moderation is very very slow it was 5.1 then I think it became 4.9 then 4.7 so it is moving very slowly now one idiosyncratic development of some Monsoon you know flooding or some weather related event can upset things the vegetable prices can go up so therefore and the point is even today we are still around uh 5% M so if we want a faster alignment of our inflation with 4% Target the monetary policy should be much tighter okay it should be much tighter it should be much more restrictive but we have not done it because we are we do a balancing between growth and inflation so therefore we have not done it we have chosen a calibrated path to aligning the inflation with the target so therefore we are still quite a distance away from uh you know 4 4% Target given the distance that we have which is currently 70 basis points which may go to 80 basis points given this much of Gap I think it is uh you know to it will be too early to talk in terms of change of stance unless you are somewhere close to 4% you see unless you are somewhere there the question of changing of stance I think will be very premature it is quite possible like you know uh the second quarter inflation number is expected to be lower but then again it is expected to go up annual average we have said 4.5% so when we move towards 4% on a kind of a sustained durable basis only at that point we may get a confidence to have a relook I'm saying to have a relook not not more than that okay no I you know in preparation for this interview and long awaited interview for me I read one of those Bulet in chapters which speak about the dynamic stochastic model uh of growth and they are forecasting 4% inflation in f26 that model is forecasting so I was just wondering if you will give me any hint about no I think we have also MPR has also given a number for 25 26 The Mont policy report has also given a report for next year so we are still months away from next year so let's see okay let's see all right Fair Point sir let me come to some obvious banking issues and also let me say with all you know With all sincerity you know I'm not trying to sort of Dodge DOD the reply just imagine the kind of uncertainty that we have so therefore and we are nowhere near 4% but yes we are very optimistic and quite confident that it is moving towards 4% but it's moving very slowly so let's see Fair points Fair Point actually yeah tomato is at 120 rupees so we have to be careful it's month soon let me come now to the banking sector questions uh the two obvious things that the market is waiting for from you is uh this project Finance uh uh provisioning you have raised it to I mean you want it raised to 5% and once the project is completed even then it is coming only to 2 and a half% standard loans is only4 so you're really asking for a very big provisioning is there any chance it will be softened you see what we have given out is a draft circular it's a draft in fact uh we have now adopting in our regulations we are adopting a very very consultative process and in fact in the annual report also if you recollect or you may have a look or your viewers may have a look in the annual report for you know last Financial year there a separate box item there's a separate Annex where we have listed out all the regulatory measures which we have taken the number of regulatory measures which followed a consultation with the stakeholders okay so we are now actively Consulting there's a consultative approach for making of Regulation making so this is also a part of our consultative approach what we have put out is a draft circular we have started receiving comments and based on the comments that are received we will examine the comments and then we will come out with a final circular the purpose of the draft circular is to adopt a consultative approach to get out external inputs and examine them with all seriousness see this is not a discussion paper this is a draft regulation almost ready to go dra circular so the fear of the industry is that you won't tweak it much it is a draft we have said it is a draft so when I say it is a draft I'm not saying that we will not twe much or I'm not saying we will to it we will TW it so much it's a draft circular and our approach is consultative we take this consultative process very seriously okay what about U expected credit loss the ecl uh rules obviously there there will be push back from some banks but no that is already I think we are working on it it's on the final stage it is something that will come in by in this financial year you think Financial year yeah yeah yeah of course it is coming in the financial year 525 you want expected credit loss I mean it has already the comments have all come they're in the final stages of uh actually the project Finance uh rules you know higher provisioning is almost like expected credit loss for that se that's why I asked whether you will shelf that to a later part no we are also equally concerned about how it will uh impact the balance sheet of the banks and also in some situations the banks need to you know this is a part of our macr Prudential approach the balance sheet of the bank has to remain strong at all times there cannot be surprises so all risks perceived risks have to be appropriately and adequately provided for so therefore this ecl framework these expected credit loss of the project Finance uh uh Norms that we have come out this is only to strengthen the balance sheet of the banks and we are following a consultative process we understand we try to understand what is the point of view on the other side what are the difficult they have and then we'll move forward the point of view clearly is that they will pass on the cost to the infrastructure company so infrastructure financing becomes expensive any financing by a bank has to be sustainable okay you see fin there is competition in the market there is competition and also you know you cannot do a financing the model of financing should not be you know should not be subject to any kind of uh unmanageable unmitigable risks every risk has to be properly assessed assist and it has to be provided for it has to be mitig mitigation measures have to be taken so therefore the cost of infrastructure financing also will depend on the perceiv perceived risk or the risk assessment every bank loan there is a risk you know there is a why do we provide a risk weit it is based on an assessed risk okay so therefore infrastructure financing also effort is to see that the risks are appropriately provided for you know uh Bank uh investments in technology is becoming huge especially after UPI every other minute you know the balancing is a problem it's a big technological Investments do you think uh banks are able to manage will they need some help in terms of charging a bit for UPI or something are you okay with the bank's technological preparedness see I think we are now living in an era where Banking and Technology they are converging yeah going forward you will see that there will be more and more of technology in banking and not just in banking I think in every sphere of Life technology is playing a bigger bigger and bigger role so far as the banks are concerned we have been engaged with the banks for last few years and constant engagement as you may be aware in the for the sake of your viewers let me say that uh in our department of supervision of the RBI we have a seite team and the seite has a full extension of seite I'm leaving that out there's Seaside team which does only this it you know it scrutiny of banks nbfcs it scrutiny of the financial system the it audit if you call it that way so we are engaged not only through the seaside team but also at senior levels with the banks on three two or three aspects of uh this it facility one is cyber security cyber security is a growing uh challenge internationally not just in India so one is greater focus on cyber security second is to ensure that timely Investments are made in it infrastructure and third is to see that the it infrastructure is keeping Pace with the requirements of the growing volume of business of uh you know of the individual Banks or for that matter the nbfcs the banks I'm happy to say that the uh you know the Investments by the banks in technology in it the kind of uh sensitivity and the kind of seriousness which the banks have with regard to you know it and Technology infrastructure is has improved quite a lot but they have a CP sir they have a CP that this UPI in the process of making it so easy for me to you know gpay you or something has made life very expensive for them there is nothing no plan at all to ensure that you know Master Card the card payment all over the world you are talking about the MDR MDR there is nothing on MDR no MDR on I mean there is zero MDR and I think there is currently no there is a currently a scheme government has a scheme they are funding the MDR you know what the bank should have earned so there is a kind of subsidization by the government towards these MDR charges so I think evenually it evens out uh eventually you don't uh see this is the start of a new term for the government so tough decisions can be taken but you will not no I can't speak for on behal of the government no what I'm saying is sympathetic would you be sympathetic to the banks ask that they should be allowed to some cost of the UPI which they bear a little more should be reimbursed to them that's no this issue has been discussed with the banks this issue has been discussed in multiple forums and that is why the government has given this uh you know yeah they reimbursing a little bit so moving forward let's see okay okay well actually uh your term has also been seen as a bit strict I mean most CEOs have gotten two years when they when the board recommends three years are you more of a demanding Taskmaster I don't know I thought I'm first thing is I think I uh or RBI has become a tougher task master no I mean tougher task Master meaning there are regulations there are supervisions there's a supervis supervisory system RBI as an institution has a responsibility our responsibility is to ensure Financial stability and therefore in that direction we take every measure that is required and talking about Taskmaster and all let me say that we are I think much we are really accessible today I don't want to say it in a comparative sense that the amount of accessibility which the bank Banks the nbfcs or other sectors of the financial market today have to RBI it's it's very high so rbl bank I mean there are I can pick up so many instances you almost for a change there are cases where we give extension for one year but subsequently we have extended it so therefore it is all case specific and overall approach you are saying that yes it is our responsibility to ensure stability of the banking system stability of the financial system and whatever is required towards that we do it and whatever we do is on a consultative basis and whenever it is perceived that RBI has taken or whenever RBI takes some even with the nbfcs of course you defend whenever RBI takes some measures you know any supervisory restrictions or any uh living some penalty or Etc it follows a months of interaction and uh you know we really engage with them and give sufficient time for rectification and there is continuous engagement with the banking sector but yes I mean with regard to perception of people I can't say anything I'm not offensive about it I'm not defensive about it but we have a job and we are committed to deliver on that job and to ensure stability of the system actually well in the press conference we asked you about all the you know uh you know penalties on nbfcs so I don't want to repeat that question but let me come to the MPC itself three members external members their last meeting is in August and then uh I think your term is December Patra is uh term is still January the whole NPC changes not just for that reason but that is a very good reason to continue you so that there's continuity in the NPC and you know a job well done why should the government disturb have they intimated to you anything anything at all is like we would like you in wi Street that's it's like this when there is an assign you see first thing is institutions are bigger than individuals whether it is the Reserve Bank as an institution or it is the monetary policy as an institution the institution is bigger than the individuals the institutions develop their own momentum their own discipline their own principles guidelines so institutions will always continue to function now coming specifically to my this thing you see when I am do on a particular job I focus on that job I am not distracted by other things or to use the analogy of cricket when I'm out there batting I would rather F I rather focus on my batting and not think whether I'm there in the next match or not so it's that way but they have not intimated anything at all about uh you know the post December uh person in RBI or your uh position no intimation at all from our the government no I think uh you know it's again uh I mean the question is I think I said it elsewhere also uh and and as as I told you I'm just focused on my batting currently okay indication no indication it doesn't matter to me at all I'm currently in a job my focus is completely on that job I try to follow the principles of Arjuna okay remain continuously focused on the job at hand and not get distracted by anything else and I'm not saying it to sort of make it a kind of a cliche answer or anything this is what I really mean I fair fair point you know I don't want to think that this is an exit interview I want many more interviews with you as Governor but I still I mean it's a 5 and a half years of but exit is still some five six mons six months away at least even for the term that's why I said I'm expecting another interview but basically you finished 5 and a half years at the end of six you will be the second longest is serving Governor all other Governors have come almost 6 years but one month one or two months less only benal ramar did 8 years so you would be the second longest serving Governor as of December when you look back what would have what gave you sleepless night in this 5 and a half years what was the toughest day you said you will do one more exit inter so there are still 5 months to go so let's wait for that okay what is the most happiest day uh you know the like when Rohit Sharma lifted the trophy since you are using Cricket analogies what what made you really thrilled about yes we handled this well no I mean there are so many so many points when you felt happy there are so many points where you fa you you know you feel that you know uh we constantly sort of in introspect we constantly I at least constantly introspect and constantly you know evaluate that is there something which we could have done something differently and all that and uh I think for every policy maker what is very important is to sort of maintain that Equanimity at least try to maintain that Equanimity not feel excessively happy not feel excessively depressed I think all forms of exuberance must be avoided all forms of depression also must be avoided we should maintain Equanimity this is from Arjun not a Buddha actually but then let me remind you that you have told me this is not the exit you that's all almost a promise that you will speak to us again thank you very much governor for sparing time with us thank you and thank you to your viewers thank you