You guys will be facing off against each other, C9 versus NRG, going up next week. So, I know you just came out of a slobber knocker of a series already, but what's something you're looking forward to? Playing versus JoJo, I think. Apas long as we can mid, there's always going to be a good chance of winning.
If you're on the free kill, click mid. What's up guys, this is a new episode of PROSE! Week 4, we just came out of the break, we got JoJo, Inspired, we also got FBI.
Inspired, you were here the entire day, basically you casted the first series. Yeah, I played it. So, it was nice. What was your perspective of just being able to like, just vibe here? Okay, I mean, this was fine.
I think the first game went as I expected. The second one was a long banger. Let's talk about it.
So we brought you here. I'm pretty tired. I'm not going to lie. Imagine if you guys actually lost.
If we lost that game, right. Just call it a draw. Just call it a draw, I think.
That's basically you advocating for best of twos. Talk about how it felt to be in that season. series because both games the first game was the longest game of the split and I think the longest one before that was like 2021 yeah so you beat it by a mile did it reach one hour? 54 minutes I think around there yeah yeah that's what we were playing for we knew that record was pretty long wanted to surpass it and we got it so I'm happy that we got the record holder.
Thank you guys. What do you guys think of the series? because you guys got to watch it I mean the second game in Inspire we were just watching together Apand then when the Elder thing happened, Inspired kind of predicted that NRG would win, they would mess up or something.
Apand then after NRG got Elder, ShotaFace came with an SR. That was depressing. It was too sad to watch, but it was a crazy series. I mean, obviously I wanted NRG to win because we would have to wait another game for this. Oh true.
Thank you. That makes sense. I mean, I thought it was going to be 2-0, but after the first game I was hoping for NRG to win because I didn't want to wait longer. Yeah, yeah. I mean...
I kind of wanted to see how long it would go, personally. Meech too. You also predicted a 2-0 for Shopify.
Yeah, but after game one they just didn't deserve to win it. What was the idea behind predicting them? Because I remember there was an Aparrow interview where he said that Shopify slapped them around a little bit in scrims.
So it seems like they're a decent scrim team, maybe? I mean, they got a little bit better, I think, with Boogie, and I just thought they were going to win. Apand I think the games were pretty competitive, so it kind of was close.
Yeah. Why did the game stall out a little bit in OK series? Well, after this three week break, we're not really too sure of the power levels of each team.
Maybe SR is actually the best team and we took them out. So who knows? Boogie came back in. I think they are a brand new team and...
Yeah, I mean, we might just be the best team now. That's true. Who knows? That's true.
How was the break for you guys? Because you guys had a lot to obviously work on. Um, yeah, I mean, it was alright. It was alright. I mean, I think we, like you said, we had a lot to work on and we just tried to...
Figure out what the biggest problems were in our team. I think we're still in the process of solving those problems, but yeah, it was definitely helpful for us. It felt like you guys were kind of bringing it back to your strengths in draft, because you got the Senna Nautilus. You also had Jayce flex a little bit, or at least it seemed like it to us, which is what you guys were kind of known for. Is that, and I'm not telling you to leak shit, but I'm also just asking, like, does it feel like you guys are just trying to go back to what you guys were strong at?
Yes and no. I mean after the first game went 55 minutes, I thought you know if it's gonna be another 50 minute game Probably Senna with 300 souls would be pretty good We got pretty close. We got pretty close there.
So yeah, I thought it'd just be good because the games were... Pretty hard to close out. Yeah. Let's talk about some topics.
So Team Liquid and Cloud9 both locked in playoffs. Apare we? Yeah. You guys are locked in for that one. Is it top six in playoffs?
Top eight, I'm still pretty sure. No, that's top six. That's so funny.
I feel like I have to always relearn it every split. No, it's top six. You're right.
So you guys are locked in. Obviously, you guys have been doing really well this split. You guys are undefeated.
Just talk about like... What is your real power level? Apare you guys feeling pretty confident? Last time you had an interview with ApaPApa, it felt like you still weren't confident to be the best team because you haven't faced Team Liquid yet, but like what's your thought process on your power level? I mean we scrimmed TL a decent amount of times this week or last week and I feel like Honestly, I thought it would be better because like versus T1 they should have won those games when we scrimmed them They're still obviously the best team with me or C9 and FlyQuest.
I mean I haven't scrimmed NRG Maybe NRG is the best team but I haven't scrimmed NRG in a long time Yeah, well from what I know from who I scrimmed, I think it's still TL, C9, FlyQuest. Yeah I feel like TL though play way better when they swap. I feel like they don't swap They're kind of a different team to be honest. Yeah, at least in our scrims, so I don't think TL TL is unbeatable.
I definitely think C9, I just when we scrimmed them, I think we're a better team. So we versus TL and NRG in the next two weeks. We'll just see. Yeah, you guys haven't played against FlyQuest either.
So you still have like the best opponents to go up against. Yeah. What's your guys assessment of C9 so far?
Yeah, I mean C9 has been looking pretty good. I think obviously they have really strong individual players on the team. Probably top two, top three in every role.
So I think they've gotten a lot better at playing as a team with the addition of Reapit. Apalways really respected him as a coach. I think they're a pretty strong team.
Apand yeah, we'll see you next week. Apactually, yeah, you had Reapit as a coach yourself in your 100 days. Like, okay, let's talk about it. So what did Reapit provide when he was on your team?
Like, what was, like, his kind of goal and focus? Because he feels like a much different coach than others. Well, I think Reapit is someone who, like, really commands respect, but he doesn't, like, use that respect to, like, kind of shit on you, if you know what I mean.
He kind of, like, keeps it lighthearted and makes the environment, like, fun to play and just makes it more free for, like, individuals to just do their own shit, basically. Yeah. Apand yeah, I think he's pretty smart about the game in terms of team fighting and stuff like that too.
Is this aligning with it or is he putting the whip to you guys? Yeah, I mean, I think he's very, he's different than most coaches I worked with. He's like carefree and we can do our own thing. We have our freedom, but at the same time. we can't like completely do dumb shit like there's a good balance so it's not like we're like stressed but it's not like we just don't give a so it's a good balance and yeah i mean i think he's smart about the game too today you guys were playing the game and he was like not even watching you like something on his not and there was a camera on him right you guys like one the team fight with blabber good one shot but they over chased and they all died it was like on his cell phone, looks at the screen and goes back to bed.
Apa lot of times he doesn't even like, yeah, if something's going on he just sees me. I mean a lot of times he doesn't care which is kind of funny. I mean obviously when the games are important or like in scrims if it's like a fiesta he'll just like, I mean if we should improve and we're inting he'll like get mad at us and say like why are we doing this and stuff but he knows when to be serious and when to joke so that's a good thing to have too. Definitely helped our environment a lot.
Apand you said when you guys face Team Liquid and they're not swapping, like it's not that difficult? I mean, they're still good. Apand when they swap, they're good too.
But I think when they don't swap, they're much easier to burst, I feel like. I feel like Impact and Core probably just know a lot about swapping and how to just swap well, better than other teams. So that's why I feel like they're a better team. But I think if SwapMata is gone, I don't think they're the best team for sure. I remember, because in the waiting room actually, we were doing hot takes.
Apand the idea was like, at least as ApaL, but it was discussed, is like Team Liquid may be the best team in the LCS of all time. That's the topic that came out. So first of all, Apa, do you guys believe that?
Apat least because you guys have been around for quite some time to face many other teams. There has been a pretty crazy growth that they had since last split, or last year honestly. How do you guys feel going up against them? I mean, I think it's really good TL meta right now too Or at least like it's like lowkey the perfect meta for them Maybe jungle meta is harder now since it's more farming and I don't think umT is really a carry jungler in my eyes Or he likes playing a lot of ApaD champs more.
That's how I feel Apand I feel like it's a really good champ pool for impact and for core. But I haven't watched LCS that much back then, so I don't think they're the greatest. I don't know if they are, but I definitely do think they are beatable. I haven't versed TL on stage, so I don't know if they're much better on stage.
But at least in scrims, they're a really good scrim opponent to have, but I don't think they're better than us or we can't beat them or none of that. I wouldn't say they are like by far the best team because I think back in the days when there was like one best team you probably had a larger gap to the other teams and right now I think maybe they're the best but I don't think the gap is that big that they can just win against everyone no matter what they do. So I don't know if they're by far the best team.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree. I mean, it depends on if you're talking about how the skill has scaled over the years too, because I remember TSM was really dominant back in the day, but obviously teams were a lot worse. But yeah, I'm kind of with Inspired. I think obviously they're a really solid team, but it doesn't feel like they're far above the other teams, the other top teams. So you said you haven't watched too much of the LCS past.
Yeah. Because who would you guys, if you guys have seen much, peg as like the best LCS team in history? Apand the ones you played against, because you guys are all champions, so if you guys want to be cocky, you can put your name in there.
I mean, I think our EG team with Danny and Giorgio, me, Vulkan and Impact was the best, if I would have to choose. But I also think that the Team Liquid team with Impact, Xme, Doublelift, Colt, Jojo and Jensen, I think that was pretty dope. I think they were winning LCS pretty easily from what I remember. Back to back to back.
So I think that team was probably the most dominant. But if I would have to choose the best team, I think our team on EG was the best one. Okay. Honestly, I'm not sure.
I mean, I think EG I was like a rookie, so I was definitely worse. But out of all the teams I've versed, I definitely think TL now might be the hardest team I've versed. first yeah at least in scrims um at least when i played in lcs my whole career i feel like yeah tl is definitely the best but obviously that was two years ago and right now the team should be better yeah since it's just time so it shouldn't be surprising but at least for me I'd probably put EG 2022 or TL C9 right now.
Yeah okay I know the community would go into it a little bit I want to talk about I want to talk to actually I want to talk to you a little bit just because you guys FlyQuest undefeated since the first series you guys had versus Team Liquid you guys are doing pretty damn well how has it been kind of ramping up as a team and also just like it feels like some of your games have just been dumb Before the break you guys had a really dominant game versus Dignitas even though it was pretty hyped up. Yeah. How's it felt for you overall?
I think that game was pretty easy and this week against Immortals we were struggling a little bit. I think our comps were a little bit more difficult to execute so I would have like a clear win condition. We kind of had to play a bit slow and poke opponents on the mid game fights on like third and fourth drake. But overall, ramping up as a team, I mean, I don't know.
I think we have been pretty good from the beginning. I think right now we are just getting used to playing with Quad and Quad is like getting more comfortable playing with us because I think at the beginning it was a bit hard for him to get used to so much talking in the game and like he didn't he doesn't understand English like completely so sometimes he had like misunderstandings or like after the game he told us that he didn't know what to do in certain moment because he just doesn't understand what everyone wanted to do. So I think he's just getting more comfortable. in the game and that's why we are just playing better than we were at the beginning okay I see that and it must help a lot that you guys had the break to be able to ramp up and work on that I think just playing games together you guys went to EWC too yeah we just played scrims we played more official games and the more games you play the easier it gets I think yeah what's your guys thoughts on FlyQuest? Yeah, I think FlyQuest is obviously a pretty strong team.
I think they play pretty well actually in bot lane when they have ranged supports. I think they're probably the best double ranged or ranged support bot lane in the league. Really?
I think so. I think so, at least my personal opinion. Yeah, that's true. They've got a lot better lane and Inspire's a really good jungle.
I think just their players are, their players are just really solid and they like to play pretty aggressively. So I think they're, yeah, pretty good team. Okay, I mean, you said really, you probably had some With the CS team in mind, or at least, who would you say has been really good with ranged bot lane? I mean, I thought TL was pretty good with, I don't know about ranged support actually, but just lane.
I mean, C9 lane, but I think Buzio is like, he really loves his ranged support matchups, so it kind of makes sense. But I was thinking... C9 TL but I don't know I mean even my balling did say recently that FlyQuiz balling has gone much better in laning too so I feel like they sometimes play way too crazy they don't ward and they're just playing psycho at least when I watch EWC there's a lot of ganks that had wards and they just don't ward and they just die so maybe they abuse or they play too aggro so that's my thoughts on them but I think if they don't go punished or they ward They're pretty good, yeah. Oh, they were. Working on it.
Apactually, that's probably been the craziest level up I've seen on your team. It's not just the fact that, yeah, the fact that you're working with Quad and getting that together, but your bot lane has been, I think since MSI, getting much stronger. How has it been?
Because I remember the first split, there's been at least criticism from the community about them not being consistent as a bot lane and maybe being the weak point, but it hasn't felt that to be the case, at least for me. Yeah. before when Masu and Buse were playing they didn't really have like a goal in mind what they want to do with their matchup or their champions so they didn't really play on the waves they were just like playing their lane hoping they get good trades and like play off of that while right now we are kind of telling them what is more like reliable way of winning the lane, like when you should be basing and when you should be setting up plays for your team, when your support can roam and try to get vision for the map or when he should actually go bot first and make sure that his ApaD carry is able to push wave first. I think they just have better planning now and that's why the game seems easier for them to play.
You talk about your break, I guess Apa lot being said about the break you guys had in EWC for a few guys. I always wonder about teams that are already at the top, like doing quite well already, and the worry about other teams behind you, like catching up. But how did you guys spend a lot of your break, at least for you individually?
Because my fear is you go through the break, but you don't have really something to play for at the end of the week. So is that like the motivation issues or it could be a little bit too lax, but how was it in your guys'team? I think during the break, we actually played pretty well in scrims. I mean, Flat Coast TL was gone, and I don't think we scrimmed energy that much, right?
You didn't scrim like once, twice? Yeah, we didn't really scrim. The other teams were like, I mean, we should beat them. So it sounded like we were struggling, but we only scrimmed five days a week. We had two off days.
We kept scrimming. Obviously, we knew that TL and Fly were in EWC, and we just kept scrimming and trying to improve on our own. We still had some things to improve on.
So even if we were scrimming worse teams, we still tried improving on it, right? So... I think the break went pretty well.
I just wish we played sooner cuz in else I mean, I don't know about TL5 because you guys were probably tired but LCK LPL were like playing right after Yeah, but we still have to wait another week Apand that's when I got kind of like like it was like can I just start already cuz I'm like two weeks already So but I think even the past couple days before this scrims have been going good, too I think we all just have a goal in mind and like even if the games are easy try to close it out without making Without like trying to limit tests or making too many dumb mistakes. That's what we focused on What was the turnaround like for you? Because he already mentioned it.
You guys went to the EWC, came back, I guess had a week, but it's always kind of interesting to see teams. There was always a conversation about burnout, about going to an international event, coming right back, but now you guys had to do it again. So what did that feel like for you guys, especially on a new patch?
I mean, the patch didn't really change much. So first of all, that didn't really matter that much. Apand I think the worst part was just jet lag from flying that far. So I think Masu had troubles adjusting after he came back for like two or three days. He was not able to play.
Apand so it's good that we didn't have to start instantly. But I don't think it was like... Too big of a deal, like the whole burnout or something like that.
I think it's a bit too early in the season to feel it. I think maybe going into playoffs we will feel a bit more burnout because that could happen to obviously any team. But so far everything is looking good.
Okay, all in all, did it feel like it was worth it to be able to travel out there? Yeah, I think so. Playing against the best teams in the world in offshore game, like playing against G2 there, we got to scrim Gen.G and BLG.
So you could see how... those teams are playing. So I think it was a pretty good experience. Okay.
Let's take a step back a little bit and talk about some of the other teams because we talked about the top teams a little bit. But... I'm looking at you mostly because like from 100 Thieves, IMT, Digg, they're all tied 1-3 and it feels like the games...
I would have imagined that a best of three would have like differentiated a little bit, but it hasn't Who would you guys think like how would you guys rank them overall? I'll start with you because now you guys are creating separation. Yeah. Well if I'm being honest, I think there's a clear top three with C9, FlyTL and then from there, the pistas were all pretty bad and I think it's just up to whichever team out of us finds that kind of breakthrough and starts playing well together as a team because there's only eight teams. I think every team has pretty decent players.
It's just about when it all clicks together and you actually feel like you're playing well as a team and I don't think we're really there yet and I don't think any of those other teams are, whereas the top teams, I feel like are. Individually they have really strong players and you can kind of feel that they have an identity and a kind of direction they want to move into as a team. Apand I think that's just something that the lower tier teams are lacking right now. Let's have you rank them and I'll put your name into the list or at least NRG.
So like from the four teams of 100 Thieves, IMT, Dignitas, NRG, like where are you placing each team? Well we took out IMT. I think NRG is first out of those four teams. Including Dignitas?
I think NRG has the clutch factor. That's what they have out of all the teams. Because the other teams, I feel like even when they're slightly winning or slightly losing, they will not really do something creative. While NRG, I feel like it doesn't matter if they're winning or losing, they might do something. Something that you don't expect.
There is that clutch factor that someone can actually make a play that... swings the game. I think that's like the biggest advantage comparing them to other bottom teams.
Okay. I mean like what Vikk said, I think there's a clear top three, but I think there's also middle pack and a lower pack. I think NRG is definitely in the middle pack. Apand then maybe Digg.
Apand then I feel like everyone else is kind of in the bottom pack. I feel like if someone's gonna break that top three, it's either Digg or NRG if you had to choose a team. So I think there's still a gap in the... Apafter top three, but I think after Digg and NRG.
It's like... Apat that time, it's like the teams are basically the same. It's 100 Thieves, Immortals and Shopify. Yeah, I mean I can't really see a difference in those teams.
But NRG-Dig, I can see a difference. Apat least Digg on stage. Apand NRG on stage.
Clean two, clean two. That's actually crazy to me. Specifically two teams, the Digg one and the 100 Thieves one.
Because at least 100 Thieves last split had a crazy split. They were just lucky. Yeah? I mean, of course. I would say they were overperforming.
Sniper got like a solo kill every game or like a 2v1 double kill or some random stuff and Quad was just playing really well. I think River and Quad are a good duo. Even right now they're still good. Yeah, because he was an MVP. That split too, Quad specifically.
I don't think they have the firepower to just win games against the top teams or they just don't have much to do to win those games, I feel like. If they're against other bad teams, maybe they can just win lane and then something good maybe happens. I mean, just something random will happen, but I feel like if it's 100 Thieves versus NRG, Digg, or the other top three teams, I have to give the chance to all those teams because I feel like Digg and NRG tried to do something.
I feel like Digg kind of has an identity on stage two. Um, but I can't see that on scrims. But on stage, Digg has an identity. I think NRG does too, so, yeah. Is it for-let's go to Digg then, cause Digg's a weird-probably the weirdest one.
Because yes, you stomp them, uh, before the break. They go through the break, they come back, their first game, if I remember correctly, was the most troll game that they had. Yeah.
Apand then they pull it to three, so if you just like, let's say you're- European fan, Korean fan, anything, you just look at the stats. they took Cloud9 and FlyQuest three games. They didn't actually. It was Team Liquid. Yeah, yeah.
They took Team Liquid and Cloud9 three games. Apand generally have kind of done well outside of that outside of that so what is the assessment on Dignitas as a team because like they're trolling scrims but some of their games have been looking really good I mean I think at least versus us it was like our first game yeah I think the first game we were all maybe not nervous but just kind of like rusty mm-hmm so I can't really say if they played good I feel like at least when we first dig they weren't Good, it was just us kind of playing bad. They weren't taking over the game, they were just there.
Apand if we did something really dumb, they would punish. But other than that, if it was like a stable game, I feel like they don't really try anything. But I feel like the individual players are still better than the bottom tier players or teams.
So that's how I felt. I mean, I feel like they all have decent players, but there's no one like kind of doing anything I feel like at least when I play versus Digg. How about you? How do you feel? Because it feels like they play through bot lane through Zven and Isle mostly.
I don't really feel like they play that hard through bot lane. I just think that they have a lot of experience on the team and they have smart players. I think it kind of feels like sometimes their hands kind of fail them, but they have a lot of experience.
But yeah, like they have Zven, Jensen, these players know how to win games. It's just, I feel like the competition maybe nowadays the players are just better overall. So, yeah, I mean, it's really, it's to play the game when you have a lead and it's not as easy when you're behind. So, I guess that conversation about like top teams, bottom teams, there's a clear three top teams.
Whether the top three teams do much better in the game than the other teams in particular? Like, what do you say is, because I remember I had an interview with Impact, and he said over grouping. So a lot of times it's more about his, I guess, opinion at the time was just more macro-based, mid-game.
What do you guys think a lot of teams need to do to... improve? I mean I think first of all TL, C9, Fly I think the laners are good yeah I think if we verse the bottom teams I think we could just win the games just from lane alone or not win the game but we'll just have a lead no matter what yeah and then it's just much easier to play when you're ahead and I just think we're on we just understand the map better than other teams yeah like I feel like we're more connected or we're more on the same page and I feel like sometimes the other teams are not dizzy but I mean yeah they're kind of dizzy yeah and I feel like we're just much more precise on what we want to do I don't know if I feel like the bottom teams don't really have that precision or they have a plan or what they want to do yeah that's kind of how I feel same with you guys yeah I think they just don't don't use the champions to their full potential and over grouping is a good point.
I think it's very often when you play against the bottom teams they always try to do something as five. It's never really like they're fighting on one side and someone else is pushing the other side pressuring you so I think over grouping is for sure a thing especially like when you played against Immortals just feel like if they want to make a play they will be there as five no matter what. Earlier guys you guys talked about just like some of the top teams just clicking and how it's difficult for some of the other teams as well. You guys have been a part of organizations I don't know about too much about about you in this case, but like, how does it feel like individually for yourself, the difference between knowing when a team does click and does, are just on the same page and when that's not happening?
Kind of talk to me through that experience. Experience because at least for you you've been through like rocky roads a lot of the time you've been on championship teams Apand you've been on teams that kind of even on the same org teams that Struggle a little bit to find that conversation and especially with energy you guys had that You guys butt heads a lot in your winning splits and not winning splits. What makes that difficult to click?
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just kind of a feeling thing when your team is playing well together the team There's not too much that needs to be said I think everyone just kind of is on the same page on what needs to happen next and Apand I think for teams that aren't really on the same page, there's a lot of discussion in the game, and discussion can lead to confusion. Confusion can lead to inting. Like, it's just, yeah, I think...
It's just really noticeable, I can't really tell you the exact differences but you just kind of feel it as a player and as a team. I'm sure my teammates feel it too that we're not at that level yet where we are really just connected as a team and know what everyone wants to do at every point in the game. Apand yeah, I mean, it's a work in progress.
How about you guys? Because I guess for you last split there was a little bit of that. But have you guys had that feeling in general? I feel like if players are good individually, then the team will usually be good. Unless they have like...
no leader and no one who will like make decisions in the game but i think you don't actually need that person if everyone just plays like for themselves and you like if your coach knows how how to draft and then you pick the champs and you know how you want to execute your draft like your jungler knows that he needs to play around bot your bot knows that they need to reset on the good timers to pressure and get the drake early your top laner knows he's playing weak side and he's not going to over trade and just plays the draft well I feel like then you are just winning and I don't know I always try to Like make sure that all of my teammates know the big picture in the game Yeah Before the game starts so no one has to like keep repeating what's the plan like You just look at the big picture and you try to know what your job is in the game So it's more of a knowledge gap Yeah I think so Yeah You guys have that experience at all? I'll probably look to you because I guess you came into the league on Evil Geniuses Apand there was that knowledge gap I'm imagining Apand you guys had to build that together How was that process? Yeah I mean it's just If there's good players and veterans, there's a clear win con or idea for me when I was a rookie of what I want to do or what the team wants to do.
Apand then I kind of knew how to play the game with that and what I should do in the game. But I feel like with the other teams, I feel like they play the same even with different comps or different win cons. Apand I feel like they don't adapt to how their comp is supposed to play out or how the players are supposed to play out.
They don't punish you if you're making mistakes either. I think we kind of had that problem last split. not in the same level as the bottom teams, but I feel like we just didn't know when to fight or we didn't even know when to get enemy sums. Or even when enemy had no sums, we had sums advantage. I don't even think we thought about fighting or taking any good fights or forcing fights.
So I think we definitely improved a lot on that too. Apand I think that's a big problem the lower teams have. I think with good players or like a leader, it's much easier to make that decision or if someone is calling it, then it's easier for the whole team to know. But if everyone has good players, they shouldn't like know themselves, right?
So maybe on the bottom team, you need like... someone that will say what to do or how to play with the comp or the wincon and that will make it easier for them. Yeah. Apactually, kind of interesting because like at least on that team, that team was built as, people called it, I called it a super team.
Like a lot of people that have a lot of experience and like, I guess, are near the top, if not at the top of their individual play, at least in the prior season. So how does that happen? Unless it's just like a overall disagreement that you guys had with each other.
I think we just weren't on the same page. Everyone just played individually. Yeah. We weren't trying to play individually, but I think everyone was just on different pages, and we were just, I wouldn't say scared to take fights, but we wouldn't know how to take good fights. Apand we didn't think about what the enemy team was going to do.
Yeah, I feel like now we're much better at knowing how that any team wants to play or what they're gonna do we can predict That and kind of play along that and I think our macro and team fighting. I think our team fighting got better, too Yeah, yeah, honestly, I started playing ApaRMs like spamming ApaRMs and after I started spamming ApaRMs I feel like I'm actually thinking much better in team fights, too So I feel like that helped me a lot too. ApaRMs do that?
Yeah, ApaRMs actually do that But yeah, I think we improved everything but we just know how to fight better too Apand we know how to pressure the enemy team much better and I feel like other teams can can feel that. Last split was like, if we win lane, then we can win the game. If we don't win lane, then it's like a 30-40 minute game, and then, I don't know, just group for teamfights, for objectives, and then hopefully we win.
That's how I felt last split. I guess the last thing, I would imagine that, kind of, I would have imagined that this split, that's what you guys would have felt, because you guys brought in Thanatos. Pretty green, came in from LCKCL, and also, there's going to be a language barrier.
How difficult was that? Honestly, his English was really good, I'm surprised, because he said he was only taking English class Just for like two weeks before I even met him Yeah, but he could understand what I'm saying and have a conversation with me So I was impressed and even now it's kind of like I'm speaking to an Apamerican Like unless I'm talking like slang or he doesn't understand some of that But if I'm talking just a normal conversation, he'll understand what I'm saying so honestly, I don't feel like he's an import his link like his English. I've gotten way better I think when he first came in he was a bit Individually because he didn't play pro play for like a year or something So he's making a lot of like solo queue habits or something But I think now he definitely fixed that and he's winning lane basically every game.
So it's like pretty easy to play. Yeah Cuz it's similar. I mean Quad has competitive history, but I heard that his English is really good.
Just like you talked about it a little bit, but when you were introduced and you were talking to Quad more and you had to work with him a little bit more. Yeah. Was that easy? Obviously the first few weeks I'm sure was difficult, but how was...
was that process? I think mid laner has to talk a bit more than a top laner in the game so it's obviously harder to get used to playing with like for a mid laner to get used to playing with us because like support is gonna ask him something I might ask him something or we want him to do something in the game while top laner is just on an island and usually you just connect to the first grabs and then on the second and someone tells you to swap you are just like recalling and going bot and other than that you don't really talk much with your team so I think MildenEV just needs to understand a bit more. Apand I think Quad is taking English lessons every week, and his English is also pretty good. So I think the language barrier can't be our excuse anymore if something happens to us.
Yeah, that's basically it, I guess. Let's talk about the meta a little bit, because LCS, we're on the new patch first, 14.14. I expected it to be hitting a lot of the meta. But it didn't really feel like much has changed, at least for the mid lane and jungle pull, which I think was something that I expected a lot of. Like, a lot of ApaP junglers got nerfed, the two big ApaD mids that we've been seeing in literally every region, especially once we got out of the break, are still being played a little bit, like Corki and Tristana.
How is Tristana still getting played? Honestly, I don't even feel the Tristana nerf. I honestly don't feel it in-game. Even back then, like...
You just rush Kraken and you have the attack speed, you have recurve bow So like your attack speed will be fast anyways, and you have 50 extra mana level 1 Maybe if you're like versus a mage and you have to queue every wave and contest and I can feel the difference But if I'm versus Corki or other ApaD champions and I'm just pushing I honestly feel no different Corki I can feel the HP nerf level 1 a tiny bit, but I still think they're really strong But I don't think they're the only top two champs you can pick now Yeah, I think you can still go Taliyah, Apazir, these mages or even ApaDCs now in mid lane and it's still fine I feel there's not you have to go Tristana, Corki or you're at a disadvantage. You can kind of play any mid right now, but I feel like they're still one of the best for sure. Yeah, when I saw the patch notes, I saw the Tristana's getting nerfed, Corki's getting nerfed, Brandt's getting nerfed, I'm like Oh my god, they're gonna change the whole game! Apand then I see the patch notes 5 damage, 3 damage, 30 HP, 50 mana.
Okay, bro. Nice changes. Same reaction on your guys'side. Because Palafox always will...
You'll always have something in a champion pool. Yeah, I mean, I don't think there are any changes really to Trist's core key. There's still, I think, the premier ApaD mids.
Apand then, past that, I think the other ApaDC mids have been starting to kind of pop up, like Lucian, Zeri. Yeah. We saw today both Lucian and Zeri played mid. Apand then for bot lane, I mean, we just play Apashe or Ezreal. I think Ezreal's really over tuned right now.
I think his damage is pretty insane. Yeah. Apand then Apashe just sets up for, like, a lot of different comps, like ApaP jungles, stuff like that. Yeah, I don't know pretty boring meta I would say but you can kind of play anything too in bot lane Yeah, I saw earlier today obviously different patch but FlyQuest was playing Apaphelios. Apaphelios got changed pretty aggressively in this patch FlyQuest was?
Apaphelios, yeah No, no, no, I said Flakid. Oh, Flakid. Yeah, yeah, from LEC.
I don't watch that. Ducks, Regents, all that. Surely, dude, defend him.
I mean, that's the CEO of Apaphelios now, so. That's true. There was no Apaphelios today. Should have pulled it out.
50 minute game, that would have been pretty good. Honestly, would have done it. You think the change does nothing?
Or because of the bot lane meta seems pretty stale too. Yeah, I mean, I don't think the change pushes him past our ApaDs. Apand also, Apashe and Ezreal were just kind of good matchups into him regardless.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think he's playable. Not insane, but yeah, maybe I'll play it. Who knows?
The one change that I was a little afraid of but I really wanted was the War Mogs change. Like, I felt War Mogs being built by junglers, supports, like, supports wouldn't even get it fully until like 26 minutes into the game, 27 minutes until it was like really complete, and so the nerf was to kind of, I'm assuming, to push them to not be able to first build it. Apand then people were still kind of, at least in solo queue, because you can just get double health shard.
Like, as a jungler, that, to be fair, you're playing a different meta entirely, just playing carry junglers on stage, but what was your reaction to the changes overall? I mean, it's a bit of a nerf to Sejuani, but Sejuani used to buy the Digg item anyway because it's very cheap and it gives you a good spike in the early fights. So I guess now you don't have an option, you have to go Digg no matter what. So I don't think you feel the nerf of Warmogs, you still buy it as a second item on like Maokai or Sejuani if you want to buy it. Yeah.
I think the item was just over tuned on supports because it gives way too much movement speed out of combat. I think that's the part that they should have nerfed. I think the HP regen on the item and the build path is strong because obviously you just buy ruby crystals which feels nice. Apand then if you get poked you get to heal up.
I think both of these things are pretty balanced. Yeah. But...
The movement speed out of combat is way too high. I think you get like 10% out of combat plus 5% just from having the item. So the support basically is running around with mobi boots while being a tank.
So that's like the annoying part. Apand I think if they would want to nerf warm-ups, they should do it in that way rather than increasing how high the bar is to activate it. People are actually still moving away from it.
Did you have that conversation with HuHu at all? Because now we're seeing a lot more supports go for either Locket or Zeke's. It seems like they're starting to move away even though it's still possible to go rush it. Is that something that... I mean, I always prefer a Locket.
You just need to dodge the spells, man. You don't need the regen. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think the nerfs actually did too much because support can just take double scaling health with the level.
Apand they pretty much... the nerf didn't do anything, basically. That's how I feel about the item, yeah. Apalright, for the fans at home, since we are on the new patch, and everyone's kind of still playing the same thing, any recommendations for people to play to just climb?
Just for the fans at home that are trying to climb as fast as possible? On which role? Uh...
I mean, just for your own role, I guess. Each of their own individual role works. I guess for mid lane, like, you can play Tristana. Yeah, I think Brand for jungle is just the easiest champ to play. He's just so OP, deals so much damage, you just need to watch some YouTube videos to learn the clean, and you are good to go.
I like that. Tristana, I mean, I don't know if Taliyah is easy in low elo, but I feel like Taliyah is pretty strong in solo queue. You can just push and move and help your team. Yeah. Apand Tristana is more of like a carry champ.
If you just want to carry, you can farm and just try teamfighting well. Honestly, I feel like every mid champ is kind of playable right now, too. I think you should play Lucian mid. Like, it's actually strong.
Yeah, Lucian mid. Because you buy Kraken, you have big spike and an essence reaver and you have permanent blue buff. It feels nice in Lucian to have Pyrrha and blue buff.
Apand then you're so strong. You push waves. You're strong early game, good scaling. Just play Lucian. I think it's a good move.
Lucian too. You think Lucian make it? Because we haven't seen a Lucian in LCS.
I mean, you saw today, not my game. Oh, yeah, that's true. You're right. You're right.
I crashed on that example. Yeah. OK, that works. Because I was expecting we'd see a lot more.
Because we're seeing a lot of Lucian, at least in LCK. That's what I saw. Yeah. How about you? Apas an ApaD carry?
I think Ezreal is pretty much strong at all points of the game and you can kind of 1v2 if your support's bad as well. Yeah. Apand then, like Kalista, Apashe, just pick whatever bro, just play.
I don't know if they can operate Kalista. That's fair, I like that. Okay, let's go to next topic for me, I guess.
It's just a topic about biggest surprises of the split, because now we're at the halfway point, we can kind of look back and just... Look back on your kind of expectations of other teams, of other players. What is a big surprise that you guys had of just honestly any team?
Honestly, I can't think of any surprises like... You weren't surprised at all? Yeah, me too actually.
Yeah, not really any surprises, but it's kind of how I would imagine it. I imagine like NRG dig or like OK in the regular season they ramp up, which we don't know yet. playoffs and they're still top three in the regular season and you have the bottom teams where like maybe like in like a thousand universes one universe they win the split but like the playoffs didn't happen yet so I don't know like in regular season is kind of going how I would imagine it I imagine Dig well mostly NRG and maybe dig to ramp up as the season goes and the top three are still the top three. Yeah, nothing crazy honestly, yeah, yeah, I would I guess for me is probably would have been dignitas I know we talked about them a little bit The fact that I already talked about you know that they took you guys to three games and all that not you In which sense is surprised that they're doing Oh, I thought they do a little better I looked at that lineup when I saw people saying that they would be be like a top team like top one top two team they have chance of winning the split i was like wow i mean i think they're like a super team yeah it looks like a super team like yeah like maybe five 2017. i mean obviously they're still good players and they're veterans but yeah i don't expect them to be like top two top three um i think they're a decent team they can definitely maybe take a game or two which they have off the top three teams but i don't think they'll ever be that top and that's what you're thinking okay so no big surprise on that one any narrative that you guys have been hearing or a community interaction because like i was thinking biggest frauds just teams that you've been hearing about they're like they're not that good i guess we've already talked about dignitas and that's the sense but any other teams that you guys think about or like a player i'm looking at you Not off the top of my head honestly, I think the standings are pretty reflective of behind the scenes scrims and stuff as well. They were pretty shit in scrims.
Yeah, I don't know, I think nothing off the top of my head now. either okay I can't think of anything either I mean I can think of at least someone in flag quest I feel like Boogie has been underperforming the split he's been like dying so much and just not playing as good as he did last split that's how I feel um last But I thought he was playing much better than he is this split So I feel like that's definitely a weak factor or like a weakness in FlyQuest I can see right now Yeah, I'm actually surprised quad has actually improved a lot from when I first scrimmed him and I think he's pretty good So I feel like Bwipwo has been underperforming to his expectations Other than that, I mean everyone has been kind of expecting how I expect them to play Let's talk about the next matchups then since we're back into the season vibe You guys would be facing off against each other C9 versus NRG going up in next week So I know you're I know you just came out of a slobber knocker of a series already But what's something you're looking forward to? Playing versus JoJo, I think as long as we can mid, there's always gonna be a good chance of winning Nah, but it's just exciting to versus one of the top teams and kind of see how far we've progressed because I think the last time that we played a top three team was FlyQuest in week two and I mean Our games are pretty shit honestly, at least from our side.
So, just want to see how far we've come, because I think C9 is also obviously one of the top teams. Apand it's always fun to verse JoJo. I mean, I want to verse Vic too. Apand I think NRG play way better on stage, so it's going to be exciting to verse them too.
Because I expect them to do much better the longer the season goes. Apand in playoffs I expect them to ramp up too. So I want to see where their form is at right now. I mean I definitely do think we're going to 2-0 them still.
But it might be like a 50 minute banger like today or a 40 minute banger. I mean we'll just see. You're going to be going up against BattleFox. It's always been a fun matchup. I guess this split's a little different.
But like what's your kind of thought process going into that matchup? Oh, you're gonna flame aren't you? No, I'm not gonna flame.
I think he's, um... He definitely has intentions in the game. But I feel like besides me, and maybe Quad, maybe ApaPApa, I feel like the other mids, I don't really feel...
that much different like when I verse Palafox versus when I verse someone like Mask or Insanity I don't feel that much of a difference at least this split yeah like if you take their nameplates off I can't really tell who I'm versing but if I verse Quad or ApaPApa I can definitely tell because ApaPApa is gonna play Digg or something or Cassiopeia and Quad I can feel like his movement and kind of his laning so yeah I mean I don't really have any like comments like it's just like that's pretty big praise on Quad who would you have in your top three I mean I don't think Quad is like good good I think he's deep decent and he's improving. I expect him to keep improving, but I mean, he's also playing with Inspired and Inspired is probably telling him what to do, which is why he looks good too. I mean, but maybe he's like thinking on his own.
I think Vlad just knows a lot actually. He has 100 games in the LCK played. Yeah, that's true. He has experience.
That's true. I mean, I think he's good, but I don't think he's like someone I'm scared of, to be honest. I think the top mids are like the top three.
Still the same. I think it's me, ApaPApa and Quad. I don't know.
I feel like versus ApaPApa. Quad or Quid? Because Quad was damn good last split. Yeah, Quad was pretty good last split. But this split, to be honest, I think I made Quad good last split.
What? Because I was his 1v1 partner. Apand he kept asking me about the match.
So I kept telling him. So this play, I have to stop 1v1ing him. But I do think Quad is obviously really good. I just think their team is just not playing well right now. Apand he's still standing out.
He's doing good. But he's not as 1v9 as last split, where he would just solo win games. I don't think he really can right now. I think it's kind of hard. I think 100 Thieves are just, I don't know what it is, but they're just not good.
I mean, when I versus them I feel like they just take bad fights and they just do random stuff on the map that I don't even know what's going on. Yeah. So it's hard for me to say quit. I think it's still the top three teams have the top three mids.
This is a good segue. You know who you're facing next? week? 100 Thieves?
Yeah. Your thoughts on them? Because it feels like anytime it's you versus River, people get pretty excited about that. Because there's a lot of splits where it's like two top junglers, Inspired, River, pretty like different play styles. Yeah, I think I have a team gap on my side.
It's hard for him to do much. Yeah. What's your take on River a little bit?
I think he's solid. He doesn't make many mistakes in the game and I feel like he knows what his job is. Like, if he's playing some drafts where he actually needs to get lead for his team, he will be trying to do some funny ganks.
Apand when he's playing the ApaP champs, he usually has a pretty decent pathing to just get ahead in gold and be strong in the game. So I think he knows what he wants to do in the game. He's not like one of those... Players are just freestyles and does whatever feels right.
Yeah. So, I don't know. I think he seems like he knows what he's doing.
We're on the halfway point, so I've already asked you about your top three. What's your top three junglers? People would be interested in knowing, because it feels like a lot's changed.
I mean, Umti plays well with his team, but he doesn't really play meta champs. He's just being Sejuani, Maokai, and just giving vision for his team. Apand they're kind of used to play like that right now, but it's working for them. So, I guess he's in the top three, and I'm there, of course.
Apand I think the third one has to be Blaber. I mean, he's playing very well with the team as well. So as Giorgio said, I think the top three has actually top three players probably on every role. What's the order that you have it as?
I don't know honestly. It's just a jungle role. Like it actually doesn't matter.
Yeah. Like if your team is winning and you're going to go and help them, you will win the game. So I think it's not that much skill involved into that. But I think I'm the best.
We'll take it. What about the ApaD carry pool? Because I feel you've been through multiple ApaD carry pools. I feel like the pool changes so regularly. We have a lot of new players coming in.
We had Bboy come in. We had Meechech come in too. So it's just like the landscape has changed. What do you have as your top three? Well, yeah, I mean, I think ApaDC is really team dependent.
I would say that the top three ApaDs on the top three teams are all performing pretty well though. They're not really making too many mistakes. Apand yeah, I don't know. ApaDC, you just need to know how to lane and team fight, honestly. Like there's not...
too much to the role. Yeah. Yeah, so we'll just go with the top three for now, yeah. Okay.
Before we sign off, I feel like this is the second kind of like EG reunion that we have. It's like that we have you alongside these guys. Can you guys like share a story that you guys had together? Like anything.
The way you're laughing already tells me you have something in mind. I think, uh... I think c9 Apacademy ruined our split What? How so? I think it was a day or two before the Golden Guardian series Apand we were losing scrims to them Apand I think the team...
I don't know if you remember They were down 1, they were down 1 You don't remember that? We were calling them down 1, you don't remember? No We were reversing c9 Apacademy It was like, was it a day before our Golden Guardian series?
It was a day before Apand we were like, okay, it's like c9 Apacademy We're just like, we're gonna shit on them and leave Apand then we were losing and struggling and then I wouldn't say we mental boomed, but we were kinda like What's the word? I mean you don't remember so... That kind of kills motivation a little bit.
I don't remember that at all. You remember, Vak0? I remember everything about that series against Golden Guardians that we lost.
Oh yeah, Golden Guardians also. Like game one we had like a free win with Maokai comp, and then we come after losing, we lost Dragonfight that was completely free, we come backstage and we get told that we shouldn't play Maokai in ApaD mid and we should give it to enemies, and then they picked Maokai when I was saying, no it's broken. They picked Maokai with, I think, Kassante. Apand they managed to kill Apahri level 3 They played Kassante and I didn't know, like I was so dizzy Kassante, Maokai kill Apahri level 3 so we lost in 20 minutes, obviously like we can't do anything Apand then game 3 I said like, okay just pick Viego, Lissandra, maybe we can win Apand I think we were like pretty decent in the game and then we somehow lost Did you like get so... Oh he picked Kassante again Apactually when Kassante came out I'm telling Giorgio, yo play Kassante mid, for sure the champ is broken.
That's actually true. It can't be picked only top, it has to be good mid, it's just so over tuned. Apand then Chovy randomly started playing it, but it was already mid through the split, so he didn't start picking it up, he was like, CBApa, it's too late to start playing it.
Apand then Gory just pulls out Kassante mid in playoffs. To be honest, I was dizzy versus Kassante, I was like, wait this champ is actually, because I never lane, because Kassante mid was meta for a while, right? But when it first came out, no one was picking it, it was like a couple months after when... Probably Chovy and like LCK started picking it but by that time no one was still playing Kassante in LCS Apand then Gory picked Kassante in playoffs and I was kind of confused on like what it does or how much damage it does Yeah, and then I was kind of getting shit on I was like shit Apand then it was kind of and also I think Inspired was also sick that day too. Yeah, so it's kind of unlucky The Golden Guardians game.
Yeah, I was sick. I actually never heard of that. Yeah, I mean I wasn't like sick sick I was just like I had a little flu. Okay, a little flu I mean, that's not the reason we lost obviously, but obviously it sucks to have.
But the story was anyways that we were reversing C9, Apacademy, they shit on us. Not shit on us, but it was hard and then we were like, shit. Who was on that team?
I actually don't remember. I think it was Tomiho, right? Yeah, Tomiho.
He was talking about Canyon there. Yeah, Tomiho was like, they were like, Showmaker, Canyon, who was their mid laner? I don't remember.
I don't know. Diplex or MNS? I don't know.
Apat that point, it probably had to be Diplex. Probably Diplax and we were losing and then I think we like kind of mental boomed and I think somebody bought us chicken after was it that day? Yeah I think so.
Yeah somebody say the day was some chicken. I remember I remember the chicken. Yeah I think it was that part that I remember.
Like randomly, randomly. We were also seen in an academy. You blacked it out of your memory. I think you just moved it from your memory. You don't remember.
I don't need this anymore. Maybe I was mentally at vacation. Maybe. I mean, everyone was like, not depressed, but like sad.
Obviously, we were losing to an academy team. We had a match tomorrow. Someday, just randomly ordered chicken for the whole team. So that was kind of nice. Surely, I had to be mentally out then.
You were going already. You were long gone. I was on the flight to home.
Because I'm pretty like... I'm pretty sure that day did not happen. Yeah.
Might have been a different story for sure. I think he was still looking at Kassante. No, I think that would have changed the Kassante pick.
I think when Instagram seen on Apacademy, maybe something else would have happened, but probably still would have lost. Damn. Apany other stories you guys got? Because that one's already funny as hell.
Big stories. My stories are not ready for the camera. We were discussed on the couch. Exactly.
I mean I remember we got boomed by COVID, it's not a funny story, it's a pretty sad story. Yeah, it's a pretty sad story. Yeah, during the latter half of the split I felt like we were kind of ramping up and then we got boomed by COVID thanks to Jojo. Apactually yeah, Jojo had to go to get COVID and walk into office and just GG. Well, I mean I remember I took NyQuil before the LCS match too, I didn't know it made me tired.
I never noticed the NyQuil for a night time, I just thought it was like the brand name. I think it was Versus C9. Yeah, and then I was playing at home and I took Nyko and I couldn't even like open my eyes I was like what's happening? Apam I that sick?
Apand I'm like, I realized later I took Nyko and it makes you tired. I'm like, oh, wow Well besides that... Wait, was it the game that you were playing from home and we played that stage?
We played, was it You vs Tryndamere? Yeah, you picked 3 Apamericans, You and got solo killed Yeah, I remember that one. Or the other way around.
I was You, he was Tryndamere I mean he crit like three four times or something, but I'm still out of it. I couldn't play. So that was unlucky Yeah.
I mean, on that note, it's already it. I think we hit a good time on that one. Thank you guys for this episode. Thank you. Apappreciate it, guys.
On to the rest of the split. Take it easy, guys.