Hello, hi, what's up? Hey Janta, is my voice audible? Hello, hello, hello, what's up? Hi Janta, what's up, what's up?
How are you? What's up? Can people just say hi in the live?
Can you just say hello? Whoever is joining here, is my voice audible? Is my voice audible? Hello?
Hello? Hello? Hello?
Hello? We are live. Hello?
Hello? What's up? What's up? Hi, Harshid. Hi, Ashu.
Hi, Anurag. Hi, Srishti. Hi, Korak.
What's up? What's up? Kia haal hai?
Kaise ho aap sab log? Lovely speaking to all of you. Yes.
Let's wait for one two more minutes and then we'll quickly start. How is your life going? Hi Mona!
Hi, how are you doing? Hi Ashu! What's up? What's up?
How are you doing? How's life? Right? Hi Ashu! Hi everyone!
Hi Anupam! How are you? People can start posting how are they doing in their lives. I am back after a long time.
And this is so nice. I'm feeling so good. Honestly, speaking to all of you students always.
This is so so nice lovely speaking to all of you. How are you? How are you doing?
Hi Asana, Hi Anupama. People can essentially start writing out how is life, how are you doing, what is going on. Thank you very much.
Thanks a lot. I see more people are joining in. But yeah, super super lovely. I am feeling very good to meet all of you. And one of the things that I keep saying as an educator is that The biggest thing that I always keep loving about my students is that I want to spend time more and more time with you, help you wherever I can in terms of the person, in terms of the operator, in terms of the product manager and in terms of the person that you want to become.
That is really really important and simultaneously you take something from of value in the next one and a half hour and what I'll keep doing is for the next like probably 15 odd days, every 15 odd days, 15 odd days, I'll be back. I will be essentially doing lives where I will be answering all of your questions. I don't necessarily want people just to essentially be a part of the life and not take some value, right?
Deep down. Thank you, Rakesh. I'm doing very well. I see 30 people have joined in. More people essentially will start joining in and I am super, super happy.
But how are you all? How is life? People can put it in the comments and keep telling me.
We will quickly start in the next three, four minutes. We'll quickly start. try to start working towards it but you all tell me what is going on in life how is life how are you doing how what are you planning how are your next career moves i would love to hear yeah tell me tell me correct you have made it in the feature athorn so you should essentially write about it and for my you should write about it oh hans paaji i am 100 i was missing you more thank you very much for saying so but i would love for people to chat You all are not getting messages. Do the messages.
I will do them one by one and keep showcasing. This is Hanspal Ji's message. Very cool, very cool. Rakesh, I am doing well.
Thank you very much. Harshit, thank you very much. We are here.
Awesome, amazing, amazing. Cool yaar, cool. What do you say?
Okay, revising the recordings. Very nice, very nice. You should revise the recordings.
Hi Kevin, how are you doing? How are you doing man? Lovely meeting you here. Lovely, very lovely to see.
you here and essentially after so much time like this is so amazing that after seven eight months i'm doing this life again but i will essentially keep doing it awesome yes so i'll say awesome thank you very much thanks a lot cool yeah so i think the way that i want to kind of structure this entire life is that that first thing you put in groups that i have joined in if people hi akshita lovely seeing you here how are you doing Hi, Srinivas, lovely seeing you here. How are you doing? Please send a message to the groups that I'm live. And hi, Success Mantra.
It's lovely seeing you here. Thank you very much for joining in. Thanks a lot.
Awesome. Take care. Very cool. Very cool.
So I think Harshit is saying I was yesterday viewing analytics week session four. cool yeah cool cool cool cool okay so in the interest of time i'll quickly quickly start and you can start posting out the messages in different groups okay and oh ganesh chiturthi we are happy ganesh chiturthi to all of you right so hi rudranj it's lovely seeing you here thank you for joining in food tango thank you for joining in i am so happy that students on a saturday want to essentially kind of learn about product management principles in life and other things cool yeah cool cool Okay, so first of all I want to say that all of you people here, you want to become great product managers. Hi Kushal, lovely seeing you. Hi Saqib, thank you very much for joining in. Thanks a lot.
Right, so now I will ask you questions one by one. What I would recommend is that first 30 minutes or 20 minutes I will quickly speak, set some context. Right, and after that you can ask any question in your chat. I will keep picking one question. and i'll try to pick one question or the second question and i'll try to address them in a very very natural it is people from the community from the reading systems program and people from outside i'll try to pick very good questions try to ask relevant questions any questions that effectively are challenging to you in terms of what career transition should i do where should i move how should i do it i would love to answer them across but even before i begin right i want to talk about some very fundamental principles right see Product management was a field that came from the field of system dynamics.
How do you make good systems? And systems ka koi matlab yeh nahi hota ki it is just a technical system. It can be a physical system. It can be a healthcare system.
It can be a financial system. Even your body is a system. Right?
When it works, does it ask you that I should mai dharku ki nahi do? Dharku? Right? Right? Awesome.
So that is, so I am using StreamYaks. Hi Ateesh. Hi everyone.
awesome so does your heart ask you that should i beat or should i not be right so that is how system dynamics works that every node in the system right has to work according to what is the function of the node same is life right when you think about product management or any field right and say that i want to become a very good product manager i want to write very good prds i want to do very good analytics i want to be I want to do very good stakeholder management. I want to drive teams. hello is my voice audible hello hello hello hello is my voice audible now i'm trying to hello is my voice audible hello hello hello just checking checking is my voice audible is my voice audible now is my voice clear lakshay can people just write yes yes yes in the chat if the voice is audible please amazing so what i wanted to say is i always keep telling you become a one percent operator what is who is a one percent operator a one percent operator in terms of outcomes is the person where opportunities reach out to that person you don't have to go out and look for opportunities who is a one percent operator who does everything very diligently who has attention to detail right who understands that it is not only his or her output it is the team's output which essentially builds great products or amazing products right so in that scenario right i want you guys to understand by becoming that one percent operator majority of the roles that you're looking for to become a great product manager to become a great engineering manager to become a great sales manager to become a great operations manager you will be successful in life but is this journey easy no that's not what i said i never said that this journey is easy this journey is hard but it is gratifying just a core example i want to give you one more example right another example is that for example if you want to build a house right and there are two people one person is who is actually putting brick by brick making a wall making a area making a room furnishing the floor versus there is one person who is just sitting outside and looking at it do both of them will be able to build the great house i'll repeat i'm asking a question you need to answer one there are two people who are trying to build a house a house out of bricks and everything the first person actually goes and puts the brick puts the cement does all of those things together and actually slowly slowly tries to build the house right but in retrospect there is a person who is just sitting outside looking at it and saying i also understand how to build a house is it possible who is the person who will be able to build a good house one or two but how is it one or two the first person who is actually putting bricks Or the second person who is just giving Gyan and looking from outside and saying, I know how to build a house.
Can somebody tell me one or two who will actually build a house? Really good, a great house? Exactly. Very nice. It is the person who actually puts effort.
Second person, if he has money, he can buy. Obviously, Anupama is saying that second person, if he has money, he can buy it, but can't build it. Agreed.
Very nice. But here we are talking about becoming better builders. Right?
So the first thing that you have to understand that even before you learn any of the tangible skills of how to write a PRD, how to make a wireframe, how to make an analytic system, how to make a design system, how to make all of those things, it is much more important than that that your principles sound. Now what are those principles? Now brother is saying that make a principle sound, make a principle sound, but what are those principles?
Right? This is also a question, right? So the principles that I am talking about are some innate principles. Value system based principle. What is the value system?
First of all, let's answer this question. What is a value system? Value system is the attitude or principles that you don't change for anyone.
Like, I'll give you an example. Are you honest? Do you have integrity? Right? Do you have humility?
Do you have empathy? Now you'll say, how will empathy be beneficial? Empathy is a big... intangible thing you said that there should be empathy, humility there should be this and that but how will that be beneficial? I'll give you an example.
For example, let's assume you are in a meeting and there are some stakeholders who are working with you and you are a person who keeps speaking keeps speaking, does not listen to some other person. Will you receive feedback? Yes or no? Write in the chat If you are a person, you must have seen those people who come to the meeting They start talking about what they want to do.
But they don't listen to the other stakeholders in a meeting. Do you think they will be able to ship out a good product? Give me a yes or no.
Write in the chat. Will they be able to do it or not? Yes or no. There is a person who comes inside and then just keeps speaking. That we want to do this, we want to do that.
But that person doesn't listen to anyone. Right? He doesn't listen to anyone.
Now, what does humility give you? humility teaches you that you have to be quiet you have to give everybody the opportunity and when everybody gets the opportunity what is the most important thing for a pm right it is feedback you will only get feedback when everybody in the room has spoken you will be able to get divergent views you will be able to get divergent opinions which you will be able to incorporate in your product or in your thinking right that is why humility helps Why does empathy help? Now tell me, what is empathy?
There is a difference between empathy and sympathy, people. Sympathy is that I am being kind to you. Empathy is that I can feel what you are feeling.
I will give you another example. Lot of times you are an APM, you really want to start well. You are a PM, you want to do well.
And what happens? That you go and you go out and keep telling people work till 12 o'clock at night. Work on a weekend.
Work on this thing, work on that thing. If you think, if your boss tells you to work on Saturday and Sunday, right? How will you feel?
Tell me, will you feel good or bad? Write in the chat, good or bad? If your boss tells you that you worked till Friday for 12 hours, now you work on Saturday and Sunday also.
Will you write? Will you like it? Yes or no?
Give me a yes or no in the chat. If your boss comes to you, your manager comes to you and says, I have to work on Saturday and Sunday, sir. I have to work for 12 hours.
Right? Will you like it? I want yes or no. Right?
Rajat said, if it pays well. Dude, pays is a very abstract concept. Today you like one salary. Tomorrow it will be something else. Let's assume you are in the entry level of your career.
Right? And you feel that 1 lakh rupees a month is a great salary. After 4 years, that salary will not be great. But will you like it?
No, right? So it won't happen, right? So this is called empathy.
So why do you expect that when you ask an engineer or a product manager to work on Saturday or Sunday, he will leave his family and work for you? Will it build trust? No, it will not. So, these are some innate things.
How do you build trust? How do you become a better person? And if you become a better person, and if you have the attitude of being resilient, right, then you will automatically strive towards becoming the 1% operator. Now you will say, how does resilience help? I will give you an example.
Okay. Today, when I started in 2011, right, sorry, 2021, right, did I have any followers on LinkedIn? You might not have seen me.
Now you have seen who is Shravan Bhaiya, what is he, etc. Dimkana is there. Right? But when I started in 2021, did you know me?
Yes or no? Give me a yes or no. Right? Okay?
Anupama, I will answer all your questions. But first I am setting the context. Okay?
I will talk about that. But first tell me one thing. That if you didn't know me in 2021, correct?
That is true. Right? Now in 2024, you know me because every single day I wrote.
Every single day I posted something on LinkedIn. Every single day you were able to either read my post or see my face. Now what happened because of it? After 3 years, when I go to any leader and say I need a job or I need a role, do you think he really does an interview of mine?
Not really. Because I have made so many proof points, so many proof of work, it doesn't matter. he already knows what kind of work i have done i'll give you a very good example i wrote a very good post on american express some time back right and what happened was that while i wrote that post on american express the vice president of product at american express commented on my post and said shravan brilliant observation and you're doing a phenomenal job for the product community right now do you think that if i go to the american express guy will he not talk to me right yes or no in the chat will he talk to me will he not talk to me Give me a yes or no.
The vice president of American Express who leads product there, who has like 25 years of experience, commented on my post, said that you're doing a phenomenal job with the product community. If I ping him on LinkedIn today, do you think he will talk to me? Yes or no?
Give me a yes or no. Correct. He will. So, how did this happen?
I don't know him. I don't know. I have not worked with that person.
It only happened. Because I effectively became a person through my efforts, built a brand for myself. I built a brand for myself.
And because I built a brand for myself, it is easy to have those natural conversations, right? And that is where resilience is. You all think that making 150k followers is not easy.
It is definitely not easy. But ask me, can you write every single day for... 1000 days 365 days of an year can you write you are sick you are not feeling well you are mentally disturbed your family may kuch ho raha hai lekin ap tab bhi likh rahe ho tab bhi resilient ho ye to ek example hai ye gym ki example bhi vysi hi hai ap gym jaoge 10 din ke liye apko lagega yaar ki main bohat achcha rockstar aise thodi hota hai if you do it for 6 months then only there is value then you will see a change then only you will be able to derive value from it.
This is the attitude that I want all of you to inculcate. A boy from Jammu, right, who never thought in his life that he'll become a product influencer and whatever, whatever you call me nowadays, right? I never thought about it. It was only that, that every single day I had this attitude to learn something new, to do something new. And learning never happens in knowledge.
If you listen to me today and don't work on it, then nothing is going to happen. Remember, this is just knowledge. All these kind of videos you watch on YouTube will not be of any use.
Until you work on it, if you work on it, your life will change. You can ask, there are so many people in the Rethink Systems community that effectively have transformed because of this attitude. And that is the reason that I always tell you not to join this program because I am giving special content.
Where will I get special content? How many people have given the same principles? It... It is the attitude.
It is never about what data is in your head. It is always about whether that transforms you. If education is not transforming you, then it is not of any value.
Look at all the leaders that I have brought across over the last three programs. You will notice one very common thing. All of those leaders are from different walks of life.
Somebody is from fintech, somebody is from edtech, somebody is from some other field, somebody is from... Now these people also don't know each other. like if you notice very closely and look at very deeply you will be able to see they have some common things that they have been speaking about what do you have structured thinking do you have storytelling capabilities do you have less ego right do you have humility do you have resilience Right?
All these things, if all these big leaders, who is the CPO of a billion dollar company, who is an SVP at Microsoft, who is a VP at some other place, who is an SVP at Z, if every damn person is talking about this same thing, then there will be some merit. Yes or no? Yes or no?
are talking about the same damn things in principles. Something will be merited in their talk. Yes or no?
100%? Is that right? Right? This attitude will come to your mind, then only you become a good PM.
It is never about what answers you give. It is always about what questions you ask. Right?
A great PM knows that it is insights per minute that he or she is paid for. Today, I was the one. In the PM community, who said make a portfolio. Making a portfolio is a very good thing. It took me 10 years to make my portfolio.
Right? And how will you make a portfolio in 7 weeks? How will you do things in 7 weeks?
And portfolio. And what is it today? It has become run of a mill.
Every person puts the same study of GCPT. Why am I not getting selected? Why am I not getting shortlisted? Sir, you are not doing shortlist just to write PRD.
There should be some insight from that PRD. If there is no insight, then what does that PRD mean? You will give me a PRD of a GCPT structure and you will say, Sir, I have 1000 such applications coming and out of these 1000 applications, I have to choose few, right? Why would I choose you? If you are not giving me any insight, if you are not giving any insight in the business that I am building, if you are not giving me any insight in the product that I am building, why would I even think about it?
It is the meticulousness of the smallest of things. Like I will give you an example. Swiggy has just launched incognito mode. After launching incognito mode, When you launch the incognito mode, there is a symbol, there is a flirtation. The wink emoji, you think it's a very small thing, a text with a wink emoji.
But do you know, there is a narrative that goes behind it. Right? There is a narrative behind every small thing in product management. And that narrative is very important. I want to explain this to you today.
True product managers are damn resourceful. They are damn good resourceful. they have so much attention to detail that they will notice the smallest of things true pro if you are a good product manager you will notice me also what does shravan bhaiya do he wears a rudraksha garland on his neck here also he wears a rudraksha garland here also so when you start noticing such small instances about a system then you will be able to come up with very good solutions because most problems in product management why this field is are ambiguous they don't have solutions If someone calls you to make tea, or to make jeera board, then you are not making a product manager.
That is already made, it is a solved problem. They are calling you to observe things between the lines. And if you are the person who can observe things between the lines, then only you will be able to become a very good product manager. I will tell you a small story for the next 7 minutes, I will talk about it and then I will start taking your questions.
Why did I start Rethink Systems? It's been 10 years since I started product management It is 10 years now For the first 6 years, 7 years I did some cohorts But I was never happy with them I was never happy with them Because eventually people said I always felt I am teaching content I have taught content on YouTube so much You have taught growth videos, system dynamics videos, system design videos, PRD videos, wireframing videos All these videos are on my YouTube channel So why did you come? Why do you have to spend X rupees or $1000 or $1500 for any program?
What is the point? It is pointless. Learn more from Udemy. But what is the special part?
The special part is, I noticed that all the people with whom I worked, Head of Engineering Sequoia Capital, CMO at Internet, they had these attributes. They knew how to talk to people. They knew how to set up a narrative.
They knew when to say no in the interest of everyone. right they knew how to handle a team these were the special parts they knew how to set up a culture i'll give you an example if somebody gives you 10 lakh rupees and says post some false information on the internet will you do it yes or no this is a question if somebody gives you and honestly it's not a big deal If someone has 5 jobs, you will say he has 10 jobs. It's not a big deal. Right?
But somebody gives you 10 lakh rupees and say post. That instead of 5 people, 10 people got jobs. Will you do it?
Yes or no? I want a yes or no. And honestly answer me. I will not judge. Give me a true answer.
Give me a yes or no. Will you post that if somebody gives you 10 lakh rupees? Give me a yes or no.
Will you do that? You know that will not help you in any way. Nobody is going to put that across on you. But give me very honestly. If someone gives you 10 lakhs and says write a lie.
Write a lie. Right? Anupama said yes.
Maybe she is thinking from her. But Anupama, the truth is, like Kushal wrote yes. Makes sense.
Look, that is what I want to tell you. This is the mindset that I want people to have. In the interest of short term things. Now Anupama, I flip this question upside down. Okay?
Assume that you go to a program and in that program, you don't get enough value. Right? And the program owners, like me, for example me, and I go to Kevin and Yash and say, post good about it.
Right? And because of that you see other students who have gone through the same bad experience are getting in. Will you like it? Yes or no? It happens, right?
White hat junior who watched ads, what do you think? When he made ads, whoever said yes in the incentive testimonial, he must have not given anything in the short term, right? That's what I am saying, Kushal. It does not depend on the situation. This is your value system.
If I think now, let's flip this situation. And say, you went, you were part of a program and you were very unhappy with it. And you saw most people are unhappy with it, right?
And you see that the owners of the program, you know, they are not happy with it. They are going away and giving money to some person and saying, write good about me. And you see, because of that, some other students who are like you, who have invested true wealth, they are getting in and they are facing troubles because of it.
Tomorrow, when that student comes to you, he will say, Anupama, how did you post about this? You did it, did you like it? Your relationship will be bad.
This is called short-term thinking. Short, most people think in short-term games. No program on the face of the earth. Right?
This can guarantee you that if you invest $1000, $2000, $5000 in this, you will get a job the next day. If I can ensure you that you will come to my program and you will get a job worth 25 lakhs, then why am I taking 50,000 or 1 lakh from you? Why didn't I take 10 lakhs from you?
Think logically. If I can ensure you that without your effort, I can get you a role or a dream role which you are looking for, right? And I can ensure this, that dream role gives you 30 lakh rupees, 35 lakh rupees, right? Whatever salary it gives you, right?
But why will I charge you 1 lakh rupees? Will I not charge you 20 lakh rupees? Give me a yes or no. Tell me.
Yes or no? When you invest in a stock, you say that if I put 1000 rupees, it will be 2000 rupees, correct? Right? But you put 1000 rupees, not 1 rupee. You put 2000 rupees.
If I can ensure and guarantee you this, right? Then why would I charge you less money? Is it not idiocy? Give me a yes or no. Yes or no, write.
Write yes or no in the chat. So if any person tells you that we will do this for you, we will do that for you, we will do this for you, he is not telling you the truth. He is just taking you out of this emphasis that you do something for him.
Right? That is the reality. It also tells one more thing, which I always told you, I made that landing page, why did I make it?
If I had to work hard, my brand is already made, I can bring someone or the other. The reality is, the reality is very important. There should always be a product manager's quality, that he has to do discovery.
What is discovery? In life, discovery is an attitude of life. You want to meet a partner, you do your discovery. You want to buy a house, you do your discovery. You want to buy a land, you do your discovery.
You want to create, go into a new place, you do your discovery. Do the discovery in the same way. How does discovery happen?
Discovery always happens in this way. If you really want to figure out somebody has good things in his heart for you, see when that person acts when he has no interest, when he has no incentive. It doesn't matter to me whether you are coming to my program or not.
But if you are coming, then come with the intent that you become a good person. In my life, with whatever little I have done in my life, My Lord has blessed me enough, right, to do something good in my life. And all of my students who are here, Yash, Asana, Shrashti, every person who is here, they know this. The only reason that I built this program is to focus on things which others don't.
I don't, I really want to make eventually after 10 years of my life, if I see there are 5000 students who are doing genuinely great in their life, in great companies, in great places and inspiring other people, then I have done something worthwhile in life. If you want to make a business, then why do you have to do business? There are so many product management programs, do it anywhere.
What's the problem? There is no fight. You attack that thing which will change a person. And if you become better people, By design you will become better product managers and that is the special part about Rethink Systems. That is the special part about how people are.
That is the special part about the community, the love that they are. People come for Shravan, they don't stay for Shravan, they stay for people. Right? It is the responsibility of all of you that if you really feel this, then help all those people who are disillusioned, who are not on the way, who you feel we can teach something.
because if you become a teacher, then you know what your true depth is. And if your true depth is great, then you will be able to help other people also. So this is the reality is Rethink system started as a WhatsApp group, right?
But now it has transformed into a large community. And I don't mind for me getting 60 or 70 nice people versus getting 700 people makes... little sense.
You respect ambanis but you admire tatas. Right? I want that same admiration in your heart.
And that's why I started this program. That's why. This program is not a product management program just to tell you very honestly. It is a mindset program.
On top of that, there is a flavor of product management because I myself am a product manager. Right? I can teach you discovery.
I can teach you design. I can teach you things like that. But the reality is It is a base program and whatever you want to become, you want to become a great engineer, you want to become an entrepreneur, you'll become a great entrepreneur.
After 10 years, when I did entrepreneurship, did I ever think that it will become like this? I never thought so. So, it ended up becoming something special because of you, my students, because of what you could take away from me. Okay?
Now, I'll keep quiet here and people can start asking questions. Bhuvan, Anupama, I pick questions one by one. Okay? And that is what where I will start picking it across.
So please start asking your questions. I'll start picking them across for the next one hour. And whatever questions you have, I'll try to answer them in depth. So you have a good chance. Whatever you want, text it, type it and put it easily.
I will show it on the screen and then I will try to answer them. Okay? Cool. So I'm waiting. Go for it.
Yes. Sure. So Anupama is asking a question. that how to say no especially when your work horizon is huge how to maintain work-life balance when you reach a senior level in product cool so anupama let me ask answer this question and again guys these are all my opinions you might agree to disagree that is completely over to you but since you are asking this question i'll try to answer it there is nothing called work-life balance in life anupama there is i think there is a better word for it it is called work-life harmony right that what if you think of your work as a separate piece in your life and your personal life as a separate piece in your life you'll never be happy because then you are saying that it's my personal life which gives me happiness work i'm only doing for money fame or whatever that those things are right so then you will crib about it so the reality is that good people or good operators you they know how to maintain harmony in their life what i mean by harmony is they take too much pride in the work that they do right and if they take too much pride in the work that they do abhi up since you are thinking of work life balance balance means you do your work for 8 hours and in 8 hours you have some x output whatever that x is the output the moment you start really taking pride in your work becoming meticulous becoming having a more compute in your head understanding more concepts, you will be able to do the same job in one hour or two hours, but it will take time.
But the reality will be that you will become so efficient at it, right, that you will be able to find time for other things in life, right? And then you will be able to do that across. But if you do any task, thinking that it is not it is very mundane, then you're not respecting your own time. So you are not respecting your time. You are saying that I have to go for 9 hours for an outcome.
But you are spending 9 hours there. You are giving 8 hours there. That's where you will see your depth.
So that's the first thing I want to say. Second, you said how to say no. This is entirely dependent on your product strategy.
That is the reason good product companies at the beginning of a year or at least 6 months, 5 months down the line, they start evaluating what are their product goals. Suppose I say this year I am the founder of a company. and I say I want to focus on profitability or engagement in my product, right?
If I have defined the thematic goal very well, Right? Then let's assume if a salesman comes to you, Anupama, and says, we want to put $10 million in a new vertical. And you know that the entire business is focusing on profitability. Will you invest?
Say yes or no. Tell me, Anupama, I am asking you, right? If you know that your goal is profitability, and a new person comes and says, sir, there is a different market, but you want to put $10 million in it. You will have to invest from your pocket first.
Will you say yes? or will you say no i'm just asking can you say can you tell me can other people also tell me the goal of the company is that i want to become profitable this year right and the goal is to reduce costs one person comes to you and says sir there is a new market where i have to invest 100 crores upfront right then only it will create value will you as a product manager say yes to that feature or yes to that vertical give me a yes or no but now it is made What's the point of feeling shy? Being wrong is not a bad thing.
I am a teacher like this, I also do wrong a thousand times. I just want yes or no. Okay, so Anupama is saying, I will invest in the vision.
Why? Why would you invest in the vision? When you know that it is not the goal of your fundamental business.
The goal of this year is that I want to become profitable. That's what your CEO has said. Will you still go ahead and say I will make that choice? Then you are making a mistake. this is how you say no no always comes from a narrative do you understand what do you want if you have not defined your goals very well what do i want to achieve right then we will never be able to say no now you will have to listen to the above what he is saying but if you are a good product manager right what you will essentially go do first you will sit with your team and say at the starting of a year maybe in january february or the starting of the financial year which is march you will say what are my goals for the next six months what do i want to achieve what do i want to decipher from this entire thing right so you will say i want to become profitable i want to increase engagement i want to improve the nps yes it's a cost for you because engineering has to work on this you have to write a prd on it right so you will be able to say no but if you don't have clarity on what are the metrics that you want to drive what is the narrative that you want to drive what is the vision that you want to drive so you can't say no then you have to listen to someone's opinion that sir my VP said so I have to say yes this is how and this comes from meticulousness like how like for example you said that I have a vision and you didn't document it right that is what I'm saying so Himanshu is saying but sir if my boss says work on it how can I say no to my boss Very good question.
The answer to that question is slightly long term. When for the first time when your boss decided that this is something that you have to work on, do you create paper trails? Do you create documentation? Did you write an MOM? After you had a meeting with your boss, did you write a minutes of meeting and send that sir, you asked me to work on these five things.
Now the next meeting will happen. He will say no, no, not these five things. This one extra thing, you will write it down again in the MOM.
Eventually after 6 months you will have 20 MOMs and you will say sir you have changed my requirement 15 times. How do I believe now that this will work or this will not work? Even after that if your boss says that you want to talk about me only then you are not working in a good product company.
Unfortunately it's very bad culture. Then you should not work in a good product company. Then quitting is not a bad thing.
If your boss or your manager after showing your metrics Even after showing proof of work, he is not saying anything. Right? Then I am sorry. Then it is not the culture of good product companies. Right?
That is one. Okay? Make sense? Anupama, I hope I answered your question.
Now I will move on. Okay? I have never really seen, Lakshay is saying, I have never really seen artists speaking about work-life balance. I think it is more of the love of the art they have.
That is correct. That is absolutely correct. Okay?
Let's move on. Next question is, How to start writing on LinkedIn, sir, as I am an aspiring product manager? Please help me, sir. Make sense.
Again, the answer to this question is very simple. You don't have to think too much and say, I want to write something very unique. The only reason people don't write on LinkedIn is fear of judgment.
But why are you afraid of judgment? You tell me yourself. The person who is afraid of judgment has imposter syndrome. Right?
Like a lot of people in the community also, they say that my boss will not like it if I post on LinkedIn. my manager will not like if i post on linkedin do you really want to spend your life in a place where people don't want you to prosper linkedin personal account Right? So why are you afraid of judgement?
At least till when? I'll give you one more very good example. When I was in Kota, right?
Lot of parents used to come to teachers and say, Sir, our kid studies for 10 hours. But why didn't his IIT come out? This was also true. There were kids who used to sit in their room and study for 10 hours.
They used to spend the whole night inside, but their rank never came. Tell me why this used to happen? Can people write the answer for it?
I'll give you the right, then I will connect it. Why writing on LinkedIn? Why should you?
You should not be afraid of judgment. I'm asking answering a deeper question You don't write on LinkedIn because anyone can click the post button. You can write today is a good day You can post right?
No one is stopping you from doing it. Why don't you write? That's why you don't write because you judge that I will write high quality I don't know what people will say.
I don't know what my boss will say if he sees it. I don't know what will happen in my company I don't know what I will do. That's why I don't write but my language, I cannot speak well in English.
My language is not that good. How will I write, right? Will I get engagement? So these are all procrastination questions that come into your head and you never write. And you never write, right?
Now I ask you a deeper question from this. The question is, there are a lot of, 5-6 lakh people go to Kota every year to prepare for IIT-JEE. And eventually 2,500 people crack IIT-JEE. Do you think there will not be 30-40,000 people who would have genuinely worked hard? Give me a yes or no.
Tell me. Tell me, right? Do you think there will not be 30-40,000 people every year who genuinely work hard? Give me a yes or no, right? Tell me, give me a yes or no.
But why do only 2,500 are able to be successful? Give me an answer, right? You have to tell me the answer, right? If 5 lakh children are going, out of which 50,000 people are working hard, why is only 2,000 people selected? I'll give you the answer.
The answer is you don't take feedback. Until you get feedback, how will you improve? You have to learn to drive. You will say that you will sit in the car all day but when you give feedback, the same person will give you feedback who is watching you drive. If you don't write on LinkedIn and you don't write on any medium or blog, how will you get feedback that whether you are good or not?
If you keep thinking in your mind that I am good, I am good, then life will go on like this. I say this again and again. Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that if you take one step, I will take ten for you. But what is he saying? He is saying take one step.
So for writing on LinkedIn, please stay afraid of judgement. Who is the person who you have not seen, who will not do anything in your life, you get tensed with a like or comment from him. What is this?
Right? When I started on LinkedIn, When I had like 5000 followers, people used to say he's the person who posts memes on the internet. And that same person after 2 years, comes to me and says, man, lead your company, I have a vertical of 100 million dollars, why don't you lead it? Right? So, first people will mock you.
Nobody likes other people to become successful. Unfortunately, it is the reality of life. Right?
But generally, the people who have enough time to comment and give bad feedback to other people means they are not even happy in their own work. The person who is sad from the heart, he makes others sad. The person who is not sad from the heart, who is not sad in his life, that person is focused on his work, he says I want to do my work well.
So, just start, don't worry. There was a time when I also started with 800 followers. It doesn't matter.
Pick up any topic, pick up any topic of interest, product management, project management, engineering, anything, startup news, write something which you find valuable. Even if one person finds it valuable, it's good enough. Let's move ahead. Okay? Let's go.
what is the next thing got it so anupama question how can we be consistent and keep the intrinsic motivation up and what measures can be both the question both the question with raksha i am super happy that you asked so i'll repeat the question what rudraksha asked he said how can we be consistent and keep the intrinsic motivation up and what measures can we do to discover our goals okay one thing that i will tell to all of you guys that you will never get to know what you want in life but you will always get to know what you don't want in life like if you work with a bad manager you will know that i will never work with him in my life yeah okay if you have a bad company and someone makes you do bad things you will say i will not work with you The reality is that motivation is a function of when you take too much pride in your work. What I mean by that is, Rudraksh, can I ask you this question? What is your hobby?
Can you tell me what is your hobby that you do in your free time? When you don't have any incentive, you play cricket, you listen to music, what do you do? Can you tell me? Can you tell me what is your hobby? Just write whatever it is, music, maths, cricket.
Anything, anything which you can play for like 6 hours and you will not be tired. Can you tell me? Tell me, tell me. Come on, come on. Tell me, tell me.
I like doing exercise. So Rudraksh said, I like doing exercise and calisthenics. Tell me one thing Rudraksh, when you do calisthenics or exercise, do you think that after this exercise people will say, your body is so good. That is an external factor. You do it because you enjoy it.
This is the answer. If you really enjoy the work that you're doing, very seriously, right? Then you don't need any motivation. What do you think?
I'm burning so much blood on live. I don't have any motivation. No, brother. It's a matter of whether you come or not in my program.
First, learn something from this one hour you're spending. You do something. Yes, exactly.
So Rudraksh said, I do it, I enjoy it, that's why I do it. The answer to intrinsic motivation is, do it because you truly enjoy it. Right? And how do you do that? Now how will you know if I enjoy something or not?
It's a very simple way. Take one task. And so there is something called sparks and fire in life. Right?
Spark is what you feel from afar, it feels good to me. Like a lot of people come to me, brother I want to become a product manager because I feel very cool. Right?
That's called a spark. But every spark doesn't convert into fire. Like every date does not convert into a relationship.
Correct? Similarly, what you have to do is, you have to say, I like this thing, let me give some time to myself. Maybe 3 months.
In these 3 months, I will honestly work hard on this. It is like gym. I will fight honestly, I will not judge.
I will not doubt myself. I will do it honestly. In 3 months, you will start enjoying it and you will continue it yourself.
When you don't enjoy it, So you will say that I have fought 100% I have fought a genuine fight After that genuine fight I realized that this thing is not for me You move, pick up the next thing The only way, see I wanted to become a mathematician I wanted to be a teacher Before becoming a teacher, I became a product manager After becoming a product manager, I became an angel investor After becoming an angel investor, I became an influencer After becoming an influencer, but after wandering around, I became a teacher That was my purpose, that was my goal That was my fundamental need. So the only way to discover pearls of wisdom in life is to go through enough experiences. And that is why people who don't challenge status quo.
What is status quo? Sometimes you see in relationships that the world works this way, the boss is like this, the sales culture is like this. No, it is not.
It is not the attitude of changemakers. Changemakers say, why is it like this? I will try to fix it.
And they never lose heart. It is the crazy ones. who have this ability to effectively say no i will give will not give up i will give my 100 who end up changing the world and that is their your drive jisko apne karme hi khushi milti hai na jisko apne process me hi khushi milti hai wahi insaan ko outcomes milte hai kyunki outcomes to sir apke haath mein hai hi nahi karman nevaagatikaariste maaf aleshu kadachana to yahi baat hai when you take too much pride in the work that you do the process only makes you happy cooking only makes you happy playing cricket only makes you happy then you don't really think that after the food that i've cooked somebody says good things to you or bad things to you when you are anchored on the outcome ki mujhe to google jana hai aur usi ke baare mein soch te roge yaar jab pura time apka dimaag bhi to ek computer hai 60% time sirf usi pe soch te roge to kaam kab keroge kaam keroge to google pohan jayoge But if you keep dreaming about it, keep thinking about it, and don't do any action on it, nothing is going to happen. There is no fight.
Then you study from Shravan, study in Stanford, study in Harvard, there is no change. Jensen Huang, the founder of Nvidia, what did he say? He said, I am such a smart guy, I take pride in everything I do.
And how do I take pride? Even if you make me a dishwasher, I will be the best damn dishwasher on the face of the earth. Okay? Make sense? I hope I answered your question.
Okay Let's move forward Okay Now let's pick Yash's question Yash has said I sometimes feel uncertainty About my decisions I know they can have Long term consequences For product and company Long term growth This self doubt Is affecting my job satisfaction And confidence Okay Makes sense Okay So Yash Look It is completely okay to be uncertain about decisions. This is how system dynamics works. You will never be clear about whether the outcome that you desire is actually the outcome that you get. But what is the quality of great operators? They don't operate at outcomes.
They have a fireman's mindset. A fireman doesn't know where the fire is. When is the fire going to start?
But he knows that when the fire starts, how will he handle it? That is the reason you should become a systems thinker, a very good product manager. What does a very good product manager do?
The moment he gets into the job, he doesn't try to change a lot of things. He doesn't try to make a feature or feature something. First of all, he tries to understand the system.
Who is my user? Why is he coming to me? Why is that person coming to my platform?
Why is the person transacting on my platform? If you truly understand the motivations of your user, your decisions will become better. But it will take time.
So self-doubt is not a bad thing. It gives you the ability to self-reflect. But self-doubt plus action will give you the ability to build your self-worth. Because if you don't act, when do you call yourself successful in life?
When you get an outcome. It's the same thing. You have to fill small anchor points of success in your life.
That's how your self-worth develops. And that is how people respect your decisions. You cannot go into a room and say this feature is going to change the trajectory of the business.
It is not how it works, right? But you can still go and say this small feature is going to uptick this one thing. This small feature is going to uptick this another thing. And if you do it over a period of time, everybody will start building trust in you.
Once trust is built, you will be able to make a better choice. Then you will not be tensed, then you will not be scared. Then if it goes wrong, people will say that it has made so many proof points that we should give a chance again. Why do people give Sachin and Virat chance again and again?
Because they had built a proof point so many times that even if they fail 10 times, they have scored 100 times. Even if they fail 5 times, it is human nature. They can fail.
So, break down your tasks in such a way that you can show small small elements of success. Like writing your first LinkedIn post, getting your first 100 reactions, talking to a new person, making a new connection. which you ignore. Don't ignore them, focus on them.
Today I talked to Rudraksha, Anupama, she became a friend or a student. Right? This is also a big thing.
Right? So this is how you essentially think about self-doubt and everything. You build very small, small, small, small proof points and you eventually reach a stage where everybody trusts you and adds value to your life. Okay? Let's move ahead.
Okay? Let's remove this. Next question is, SQA vs PM, which role has more success regarding scalability, salary, money and What is SQA? Naya Manzoor What is SQA?
I don't know what is SQA SQA, I know SDE, I know software development engineer But SQA I don't know Right? So this I don't understand Okay, you write again, I will understand So Himanshu is asking Sir, how do I tackle the IT team? The IT team has surely more technical knowledge than me Sometimes they use it to removing a feature without knowing deep tech i cannot push back again you have to do your discovery you don't have to become tech uh you don't have to become a tech expert but tech fluent to banana it then you build some kind of a scalable architecture for an app then you have to learn a little bit. In these scenarios, then you will, and the biggest thing, you also have to work on, if the technical team comes to you that this API is very difficult. Let's assume you went to the tech team and the tech team says, man, we can't do this in Himanshu, because the API is very complicated.
It is complicated. Then what will you do? You will not say no there. You will go back and read about what is an API. Why is it complicated?
What have other people, you will do your discovery in a written format. and come back and talk to the engineer and say, Sir, I have discovered my own thing, which has given me an understanding that it is not that complicated. These are the three examples.
When you just talk and float your opinion, you will say, I think this is easy. You will say, I think it is difficult. No one will win in that. You will have to back your opinion with data.
And there are enough resources on the internet where you can build such a document and actually add value to what somebody else is like. Make sense? Let's move on.
Okay? So, Rohit has asked a question. I am working as a BA who was taking care of Salesforce, CRM, BRD, owner for the entire role.
Tried approaching the chief product officer for a PM role, but the problem is they only offer product support role. Again, Rohit, I can't talk about your company, but I'll tell you a general way. You have to understand that if you are 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, or 8 years or 10 years of experience, directly jumping a PM role might not be the right thing to do. I'll tell you why. Because your skill set is a different skill set and a product manager needs a different skill set.
So what do you do? I typically, what do I recommend to people? First of all, consider your strengths as strengths only. Think of your strengths as strengths only.
Don't think of them as weaknesses. I come from a sales background, how do I become a PM? I come from a QA background, how do I become a PM? What do you do?
You essentially go into your org and you start taking small small projects. Like you are a BA, you have to write a BRD or FRD. What you will do is, you will go to your manager and say, Sir, this is a large product.
Can you give me one small thing which I can do from discovery to execution? Completely from discovery. Like, for example, you use Jira and you feel that the documentation process is not very good. Pick up that one task and say, I will fix this.
End to end. Right? Ship that out. You will get some change from that. People will think, not only he shipped out the FRD and BRD, he implemented the whole damn thing.
He understood the problem. Then do one project in two months. Then do the same small project again. Do 4-5 projects which have the skill sets of a PM Like discovery, like execution, like empathy Like documentation, like analytics Do these small 3-4 projects over a period of 12 months You don't have to become a PM tomorrow You have to become a PM at a good place You don't have to become a PM Today 95% of companies that put PM titles They don't get the PM's work done This is a good thing So you have to go and learn craft when it is genuinely valuable. You should have depth.
If you become a PM in the title, then nothing will happen to you. It's not going to help. 25% of our batch in our community are product managers.
Why do you think they came and learned from me? Then they are already PMs. Then why do they need to study?
Right? The reality is that you have to look your journey in a slightly long-term manner. People always underestimate growth in the short term. In the long term, sorry, in the short term, they overestimate it. long term may underestimate karte hai toh apna path aise banao ki mujhe 8 mahine mein PM banna hai ya 9 mahine mein PM banna hai in that path I will ship out small small small small 4-5 projects which the entire team will see from discovery to execution then go to your chief product officer and that chief product officer aapko khushi khushi PM bana dega ab there is a second question may be in your company they don't offer the role that is very company specific but the approach that i have told you is valuable at 95 of the companies a lot of my people they have gone into program management roles spent one year there became a pm a very good example is amazon a lot of people in amazon i know there's a very good friend she's an svp at z right she wasn't sorry she was a vp at z right she said how did she become a pm she was a program manager for one and a half years in amazon and then became a product manager right so this is the best way show proof points show proof of work you won't become a PM.
Okay? Makes sense. Okay? I'll come to Bhuvan too.
I'll pick up Bhuvan's question too. What is the question that Bhuvan has to ask? One second.
Okay. But most PMs in my MBAs. Again, I'm saying again, Rohit, what does an MBA do?
Fundamental. Come to the first principle. What does an MBA do? It gives you a real-life case study and tells you how you'll execute it in life.
Right? So the thing that I'm trying to put across is that skill set should be apparent in your talking ability. That the depth of thought should be understood in your storytelling.
MBA makes a brand. But brand is not such a big factor. So many big people, Shreyas, Doshi, all say MBA is not needed.
So there must be some merit in that. Now generally what happens is that an organization doesn't fight so much. Organization says we have to hire 15 people, it's better than this that I go to MBA.
It's like that. If you say that there is an engineer who is studying computer science from IIT Bombay, one engineer is studying computer science from a local tier 2 college. If I ask you, who will you talk to for your role if both of you have the same salary?
Assume that the salary expectation is the same. If I ask you, Rohit, there are two people. One is an IIT Bombay computer science, other is a normal tier 2 college computer science.
Both are asking for 20 lakh rupees of salary. Who will you talk to first? Give me a yes or no. Tell me. Right?
Tell me. Tell me. I need an answer. Tell me.
Right? Obviously, you talk to the IIT Bombay people. This is the same thing.
But if you have the skill set, If you have storytelling, if you have depth of thought, then why won't he talk to you? That is your resume, your practice. Exactly, you said the right thing.
It is just professional bias. It is not anything else. So if you have deep depth of thought, if your principles are sound, if you have made a proof of work, you will be able to crack into any sort of product management role.
It will not be. But, If you go to IIM Ahmedabad, you will get the value of the brand. Makes sense.
It's simple. Right? Makes sense.
Let's move on. Next is, Ankur is asking me, How do you envisage the product management space and aligned roles evolving over a period? Very nice question, Ankur.
Very good. Again, product management is a field of thinking about ambiguous problems. Problems which have not been solved.
Right? In that scenario, what you essentially do, is that this role is always going to have value because ambiguous problems all problems will always exist no matter how much you expand, the problem will always work but simultaneously if you think that the role of product management means writing PRD, sitting in meetings and doing all this knowledge-making it will be automated, you genuinely need to build an insightful and high-quality operator with depth in thinking you need to build depth in knowledge if you have depth in knowledge If you have high quality thinking, if you have a problem solving attitude, which is evident from your actions, you will always be in demand. Why has it happened that a community of 50 people has got a job over the period of 6 months? And in this market where people say that they don't write jobs, there are so many people who are on the landing page, how did they get a job? I didn't hire them.
Did I talk to them? No. If you are a run of a mill average operator, this will get automated.
same for software engineering same for product management same for sales same for marketing if you always aspire to become the different from others and be that one percent change maker through your attitude through your quality of prds through how you talk through how you manage a team through how you build a value system this role will always exist 200 years down the line also and you will always get shit done paid sorry i'm using a word shit but i'm just telling you this role will always be in demand make sense Let's move on. Next. Bhuvan, you can ask the question again. Okay.
Let's move on. Himanshu has asked, sir I came into the PM role in FinTech just after my BTech from IIT. Everybody around me is MBA worth it?
Again. So answering this question. MBAs are worth.
I never said don't do MBA. But don't do MBA to become PM. Do MBA for experience.
That you will evolve overall as a person. Right. Yeah.
You will have that ability to make better friends, to make better choices in life. What is wisdom? Wisdom is just good judgment.
If you are doing an MBA for the experience, for the network, for learning new things, for evolving as a person, right? Evolving as a person. It's a great thing to do. I myself wanted to do an MBA from GSB even though my mood changed. I want to do a PhD now.
That's a separate thing. But what do you say? This. MBA.
If MBA. If you want to become a PM, then you are wasting your time. Then you are wasting 30 lakhs.
There is no point. It is better to watch my videos and actually employ the people I talk to. You will become a PM.
Sir, I have got a job of 500 people. I have studied for 3 years and I have made my life. I have got a job of 500 people.
There will be some sense. There are 80% of them who are not MBA. If you want to do MBA for an outcome, then don't do it. If you want to do MBA genuinely for experience and say that I want to evolve. become a mature person become how to how do i talk to leaders in life become how do i essentially build a brand how do i essentially become a humble person how do i become a person who would never get stressed in bad situations how do i become a person who is anchored in process how do i make good people and a strong network who support me when i am doing not well and i support them when they are doing they are doing not well in life the bmv acre bill cool worth i am md i am the md about jana I was in IIM myself, I didn't join.
But I didn't join because I studied metallurgy in IIT. When I studied metallurgy, I didn't want to do metallurgy. So that's why I didn't do MBA. And today, I haven't done MBA. So today if you are sitting in my session, then you consider me a good product manager.
When you consider me a good product manager, then only you are sitting here. Make sense? So that's why do MBA for experience. Many times people say, Shravan bhaiya is against MBA.
No, I am not. I am against if you don't have the right mindset to do it. I am with you if you come with the right mindset. Make sense?
Let's move on. Okay? Success Mantra is asking, I have confusion between program, product, manager. Okay.
Look, product manager has two aspects to life. One is discovery, second is execution. Discovery happens in problem space. Execution happens in solution space. What is problem space?
What is my problem? Who is my end user? Why should the user come? Right.
What is the value proposition? Generally, program managers or project managers or scrum masters They don't do discovery because there are clients who give the requirement that you have to make this. Product manager does both discovery and execution. He understands the problem and also presents the solution.
Generally, program manager doesn't look at the discovery side, only the execution side. How will the PRD be made, is the project on time or not, is the engineering being shipped on time or not. He looks at all these things and it effectively gets closed across.
This is the major difference. People give different names to it. Sometimes they give project manager, sometimes they give scrum master, sometimes they give program manager, sometimes they give something else.
But the reality is when you own discovery and execution both, you are a product manager. If you only own execution and not much of discovery, you can give whatever title you want to give across. Product owner, program manager, project manager, scrum master, whatever you want to call it.
That is what is the difference. Okay, let's move ahead. Okay, let's move on. Oh man, there are so many questions. Very big, very big.
Okay, I'm moving forward one by one. Okay, it has been two months I have left my job as a PO. Harsh is saying, it has been two months I have left my job as a PO BA, but I didn't get a single call. I don't know how the market is moving.
Now I always feel low. May I know what's the right thing to do? Very simple, Harsh. Do you have a proof of work?
Do you really believe what you have made in your portfolio? Whatever work you have done, There is a way to show it. Are you writing on LinkedIn? Tell me one thing.
You are in one position, 500 people apply for it. Why do you expect that you will get a call? And the call came by mistake.
Right? So will you keep doing this all your life? That means, today you got a job by mistake. You fought in the fight. In 6 months, you applied for 5000 positions.
Out of that, 2 positions went by mistake. And you got a job. Will you do this?
Similarly, you have to decide your career. Much better than that. You...
When will you work in the companies you dream of? You will never work there because this is the method. If you have your own brand, if you are writing consistently, it takes time. But when you have some very strong proof of work, then only people will come to you. Or else you will always have to rely on your network.
Someone should refer, someone should do something else, someone should do this, someone should do that. Someone's uncle is here, someone's uncle is here. If there is such a connection, it is very good. Then find it. Then you would not be asking this question.
So the reality is that if you run-off a mill way, you are applying everywhere, in one position I tell you, today's date thousands of people apply. Why should I choose you? So you have to do something that will make you different.
So I talk about the same thing again and again, but people don't listen. They don't build the same depth inside them. How will you build that depth? Read what I am saying, make your proof of work, write it on LinkedIn after proof of work, make your brand, at least 2 months, 3 months. You said that you are not getting a job in these 3 months.
You said that you are not getting a job in these 2 months. So, work hard in these 2 months to build your depth. It is possible that you get a call from somewhere in 2 months. At that time, you are not prepared. You say that your interview has failed.
I came out in the second round. At least, you should prepare yourself so much that as soon as you get a chance, you will make it in that interview. So, you have to work hard for that.
For that, you should join good programs. For that, you should build depth. But unfortunately, what do we focus on? That someone give me a shortcut.
That this is a way, someone put a jugaad. Someone do this, someone give me four knowledge. Because a person doesn't want to work hard. Work hard. Today I am sitting here, what is my incentive to solve your questions?
I am not losing my life. I am working hard. Because you learn something. You derive value from everything. Right?
So what is my incentive? I don't have any incentive here. The reason that I am doing it is because hard work is the right thing.
When your proof of work will be made, you will have genuinely worked hard, you will have genuinely fought, you must have written on LinkedIn, you must have made your brand, then I don't say that 10 out of 10 people will call you. But at least 3 will call you. Why does anyone talk to Shravan in today's date because he sees my face everyday.
In one way or the other. So he says that he knows this man, so I will talk to him. When I don't know Harsh and he is one of those 500 applications.
I don't care where you are a product owner, you should have a background, you should be studying from IIM Ahmedabad, or from IIT Bombay, or from any Tohru college, then I will shortlist you, if that is not true. Then you have to show something that separates you. I keep repeating that.
And that's the thing. I have 3 million views on my YouTube channel. 2.5 million views.
Why did 500 people get a job? Because if you listen to knowledge and don't work on it, then nothing is going to happen. If you genuinely take knowledge and work on it, then something will really change in life.
Okay? Let's move on. Next is Rahul Mishra.
He is saying, If I want to start learning PM in short time, again, does not happen shortcuts don't work rahul there is no crash course you tell me there are so many crash courses in quota do they get a job? is there ever a selection? no whatever is valuable in life it is hard you have to work hard for it to become a great product manager or a great leader is a hard thing wisdom wisdom is the word wisdom wise wise person It takes time to become wise, that's why you say that our elders are wise.
They have experience. Why didn't they become wise in one year? You have to take time, start watching my playlist, you can start from there.
Okay? Let's go ahead. I'll go ahead. Okay? Let me just ask next.
I will take 3-4 more questions and then we will close. Okay? So Naya says, I have been unemployed for 2 years, job hunting for PM role. Very...
You have asked a very high level question. I don't even know what you did. The first point you should see is that you are not even able to ask a good question. The line you have written, I have been unemployed for two years, job hunting for PM role.
What action will I give you with this? You will go to a doctor and say, Sir, I am sick. Okay.
The doctor will not ask what the symptom is. What have you done till now? Which medicine did you take?
What things did you do? When you are not able to give me the answer in that much detail, then what suggestion should I give you? Let me give you a general suggestion.
Make a proof of work for yourself, make a portfolio, work on it, start writing on LinkedIn, attend my sessions, I am doing it every 15 days, do it seriously, fight 100% and build your depth of thought, things will happen. Easier said than done, but if you do this, you will get the benefit. Because there is no other way than this. Let's move ahead. Himanshu is saying Sir, there is a rule book to become a good product man, unlike other, what do you call it, HD roles.
One second. Okay, let's move ahead. Let's look here.
Okay. I have three years of digital marketing, conversion and growth metric tracking. I want to switch. I am able to get to a PM interview but not able to crack. Please guide.
Again, depth of thought. Depth of thought. Depth of thought is built from your proof of work.
MNC Hub, Onboarding, Jobs and IT Skill Update is developed from your proof of work. If you don't develop proof of work, then you won't be able to see your depth of thought. The reason you are not able to crack a PM role is because of the fact that there is less depth of thought.
So when you make a portfolio, work on it, work sincerely on it, then your structural thinking will improve and you will be able to crack a role. Make sense? Let's move on. Bhuvan, I will give you the same answer.
If you have 12 years of sales experience, sales is a very good role to get into PM. But, first of all, you have to develop your depth of thought. And I will not recommend you to directly say that I want to become an SPM.
No. First of all, you should go for a role that is called Program Management. Go for Program Management where you develop a balance. Say that I will work on some aspects of product management.
Slowly and steadily, I gradually develop skills over a 12-month period because it aligns with your skills. It's easy to get that role. Work there for 12 months, but consistently tell your manager that give me small projects, give me small projects, give me small projects. And eventually, you after 12 months, after shipping out 3-4 nice projects, then you say, sir, I have done so many good projects. Now, I have to move to the PM role and you move.
Because the way you have developed with the skills of sales, you will have to do with PM also. When you have developed sales for 12 years, then how can PM's skill set be developed? It can be developed only when you do small tasks slowly and move ahead. Okay?
And then you essentially move and you have to learn the concepts. My channel is always free. Learn it from there.
Okay? Let's move ahead. Okay?
Last question. This is the last question I'm taking. Graduated in 2024 working in data science but really passionate about PM.
Should I... Yes, you can. you can def the root is very nice the root is very nice six months and intern to pm root is very nice but build depth of thought build structured thinking design thinking quality thinking and essentially are able to put that across in the type of a portfolio just give me a second One second, one second. Okay. I will give you a little link.
This is your link. Okay. Those who have not joined, join it.
No problem. You will be effectively able to find a path. Talk to community people.
There are a lot of people. Nadia is there. Himanshu Palewal is there.
There are a lot of children who are in the group. who have cracked the roles, you can crack them. Okay?
Any good recommendations to, what do you say, any good book recommendations for learning metrics? Measure What Matters is a very nice book. You can essentially learn that.
It's written by John Doerr. Measure What Matters. Okay?
Or this is for metrics. Good book recommendations for product sense. I would recommend, start with the Lean Product Playbook.
It's simple. Early stage hai, but book, the crossing the chasm is also good. Cool. Toh yaar mai aap sabse sirf itna hi bolna chahta hu. Please apni ye attitude chhod do.
Same tarike se apni discovery karo, thodi mehnat karo. Mehnat karne me na, achchi baat mehnat karoge, apnai jeevan badaloge. Lekin trust those people who essentially have good incentive in their heart to do things. And spending money is not a bad thing.
If you are spending it on the right thing, you spend lakhs for iPhone too, but think before investing. Do your discovery. See what I want to achieve with this. If you do those things, then you will genuinely take some value. Because if you do MBA tomorrow, if you go to any college tomorrow, you will invest 20 lakhs there too.
If you are seriously going with the right mindset, then you will become 2 crore for 20 lakhs. But if you are going with the wrong mindset, then you will become 2 crore for 20 lakhs. then nothing will happen to it.
Okay? Make sense? Now I just want to tell you this much. Do one thing for me, this is free. Like this video so that other people can derive value from it.
Please and if you have not subscribed to the channel, I will keep doing these lives every 15 days. Share it with your friends. Every 15 days I will keep doing lives on different topics in product management.
Okay? Both Rudra, both the books are good. They are entry level books. It will help you in an APM role but over time you will have to develop a strong book reading habit.
Okay? God bless you. And once again, it was so nice meeting all of you after so long. Lovely, lovely, lovely.
And please share the video with everyone. Please share the video with other people. I'll see you on the other side after 15 days.
I'll do LinkedIn live too. So I'll meet you there. And if you have any questions, next time ask good questions. I hope all of you liked the session. I hope you took something valuable from it.
I am really, really grateful that you came. And come forward and call your friends and everyone. Go bulaw and we'll keep this. as a movement going on.
Chalo, apna dhyan rakho and have a great day. Bye-bye. Take care.