[Music] the real with Ross now the real with Ross now the real with Ross now the real with cross now real raw conversation navigating the natural and theology influencing people to find purpose and live with quality we decended to Christ just acknowledge me the Sacred Scriptures tell us throw down your NS come and follow me but leadership that's anointed and appointed when leading God people sometimes you become disappointed you do what you can you do what you know you give it to God and let it go go go Welcome to the Real with Ross today we will have an opportunity to talk with Dr Charles Goodman he is the pastor of historic Tabernacle Baptist Church in Augusta Georgia he is joining us today to share uh his ministry his life and insights with us welcome thanks Drew appreciate it man on the real with ro I finally made it like this is this is a highlight of Ministry of Life and Legacy I I feel like it's time I can go to heaven from here so I appreciate and y'all see his face while he's com no I'm raing this is just how he is all the time he's uh he's a great great person to be around though so as we get going today um let's start by sharing your story yeah thanks Drew man once again I I love this platform and um opportunity to come and share man much respect for your ministry and thank you and the work that you're doing not just when you were here in Jersey man but the work you was doing in Baltimore and so this is dope um man for me that's that's interesting questions um Ministry is always kind of I guess innately been around my life even though I wouldn't be what you considered uh a career Ministry person okay I was adopted by my grandparents at 14 months of age by my maternal grandparents all I knew was church because of their perspective and their upbringing for me uh it's interesting uh my grandmother who passed a few months ago uh my mom just sent me a um a file they found in the house she kept every award I had from elementary middle high school college wow and what my mom didn't know is that I also found something where my grandma kept pictures of when I was a kid preaching in a vacuum cleaner playing a guitar and like jumping off of the it was the craziest thing so when I was told is that around 8:00 I start showing this propensity to do ministry okay right coming home putting on my grandfather's t-shirt and making my Grandma and Granddad sit there and I repr preach the sermon right so uh from while they tell me since 8 years old that's kind of been what I've been I most people don't know this but I grew up United holy church really so I have a very deep Pentecostal background um I can see that and I was in United ho Church to about high school and made the switch to attending a Baptist Church and it was purely simply it's it's going to sound funny um that's where the kids went people high School the girls went to the Baptist Church right like so making that shift and that change but after that going to college uh Wake Forest University and while I was at Wake Forest I kind of had my own coming to Jesus what I want to do because when I went to school I thought I was going to be a lawyer my whole time I thought I was going to be a lawyer CU I never seen Ministry be sustainable where someone could make it a living even if I considered ministry as a calling I never thought it would be a full-time thing okay you know um I thought I'd be a lawyer and then preach on the side that was at most but then my senior year um got diagnosed with ALS and um had on come to Jesus moment and that kind of really spurred me for really accepting this kind of call to Ministry and even at that point I still didn't know exactly what it looked like you know at that time hearing that you have 2 years of live is kind of a jarring experience and so I just like you know give it all I got be as committed as possible and through that calling and that acceptance of that moment produced me to just take this thing step by step I'll be very honest with you I don't think I didn't see this when I accept it okay whatever this is now for me I didn't see it it's almost as if God gave me Progressive things along the journey that every step birthed a greater understanding a wider view of the possibilities that could happen but it was really predicated upon the acceptance of every step along the way and just being faithful and committed so I said all to say so that's I'm 21 at that time I make my calling I um get license start Seminary at the time I'm still believing I ain't got much longer to live but I'm going to be as faithful to see it as all the way through as possible get ordained at 22 then I get my first assignment to pastor church in Alabama by 23 and so from then it's just been this kind of crazy trajectory wow this makes 21 years of pastoral Ministry for me man I I didn't even really think yeah I guess yeah I've been 17 at tab three and a half at yeah okay so I mean that's the short thing that kind of get it started I know as we continue the conversation um more will kind of be brought out from that but that's really kind of this Genesis it really was this acceptance of a moment that I think was already there but I needed like this Burning Bush experience um to kind of really face not only mortality but Ministry and Ministry always wins I think that'll be a theme for me um in every aspect of Life Ministry wins gotcha and that means sometimes I win sometimes I lose but Min she going to win if you understand what I'm saying so yeah so so how have you defied the odds with regard to your diagnosis and your health yeah you know when um back then man it's so wound because I went to Wake Forest University and the craziest thing the number one ALS doctor in the world was a doctor at Wake Forest oh wow so even then he had a two-year weight for a patience but because of my stature and standing that weight Forest I was able to see him within two weeks they put me on a regimen uh medicine at that time which was the thing but typically there's no medical help for it you just kind of it just kind of Wast away it just really is a nerve muscle uh disease your mind is fresh you just literally your body doesn't respond anymore and I had to go through my old things people may not even know realize even now I have a lot of issues on my right side or you know I can't write so a lot of things I have to do I memorize that was birthed out of knowing that you know I had this limitations but I wanted to still maximize I didn't realize I had photographic memory until I had that so it kind of really birth that thing so what it was honestly just been a lot of prayer and I believe God healed me miraculously and to this day doctors have not figured out why to me I know it goes back to the time when I made that promise to God if it's two years to just keep it I'll give you all I got for those two years that's why for me Ministry is not an occupation it's not a career it really is my life and I feel in my heart that I am alive my life is tied to the that promise I made and so that's really the peace so honestly I in my heart I really believe that that God healed me miraculously yeah um and because of that gratitude nothing in my life is higher or has more priority than Ministry for me you and I had a conversation when I was talking about doing a second sight I think that kind of fits into this piece here you talk about how you condition everything in your preaching Ministry and your life as running in this Marathon called Ministry how every piece is designed to be such where it's um sacrificial it's regimented it's dedication talk talk a little bit about yeah man I like for me and I it's funny because you know being an athlete growing up you know I think you have to prepare your body so I take that same approach when it comes to preaching one of my greatest influences from the physical aspect of ministry is Dr William Curtis some years ago he we had a conversation he says he trains for preaching he he treats the at the year preaching year like an athletic year to the point where he knows when he's on he knows when he's off he takes August off at that time now he's said he's a little more relaxed because he older but that really it it sparked because as an athlete I know what it is to train prepare your body and really anybody who's in in the athletes know that one of the most critical times is your off season right you're never out of shape you got to always stay in shape so physically that was a piece mentally you know that's been one of my desires for my academic Pursuit every degree and I've got seven th far has been to add tools to the toolbx to be a better practitioner preacher Pastor um there's no wasted things for me I didn't just do something just to be doing it no there was an intent and there was an outcome that I was trying to do MD because I understood I need the practicality of of things my masters of management or MD or my MBA because I I understand that organizational leadership is important right from my dmen in preaching from my PhD in leadership from the thing I did a yet so everything mentally was about in school and education was really about preparing myself to be the best in my field the best preacher practitioner pastor I could be so that approach for me is is everything like I don't I don't have anything because in that way I I even when I played basketball I wasn't the fastest I wasn't the most athletic but I'll be dog going if I let anybody outwork me right I study the game I'm playing all day long I'm trying to figure out angles I knew your plays I knew my plays because at the end of the day I feel like to be overprepared is to be prepared yeah yeah so you have five services on Sunday we did before covid we're at four now we get ready to go back to five okay and we get ready to add our third location that has been something we've had on hold since Co craziest thing about that third location Drew was the third week of March here's the funny thing our dear friend Dr Danielle Brown had just preached for me Second Sunday of March 2020 for my women's day we had signed the contract for our third location that Wednesday and Thursday the world shut down wow so we're just in the process it's so funny I just talked to my Z and they just filling out our location we found the location so we're hopefully going to be it by to start doing stuff monthly starting within a few months and then I'm hopefully going to Bring It On full online by January okay we it's 104 the of church anniversary next year so probably be a good thing to kind of fold into but this been a thing I've been sitting on for four years and I'm kind of antsy and it's like really hard but yeah we're going to go back to five okay it's been really crazy even up until this point this year we ain't even got all the way in January June yet and we've had over 300 some persons who joined our church um so people are coming back to church and I want to Steward it I realize in Ministry you don't you get moments in Ministry where you can't overthink it just do MH and I always tell my team and my staff and my leadership as like yo what's the worst thing happens if we do something it doesn't work we just go back to doing what we're doing now it's not a loss right I'm always willing to try experiment worst can happen yeah right I rather fail forward John Maxwell has that book some some years ago it was very powerful to me fail forward I'm going to try so yeah we're going back to five it's been cuz actually Four is worse than five really why the longer weight between Services okay okay I like the boom boom boom boom boom it's a different rhythm when it's five ver four and I want them I want the I want the five Rhythm back it just was easier to stay up okay so talk about your conditioning on Sundays for four or five Services I know that you know when you and I talk your staff is in a certain routine with you to keep you on certain things you drink don't drink eat don't eat you know talk about that I'm an athlete that preaches right a preacher that takes it at an athletic V so Saturday I'm regimented by the time I go home I'm here now in Jersey working um sharing with Dr Brown and so when I get home tomorrow I got to go by the office I got to pray I have a routine I do on Saturdays I'm washing clothes I'm taking a nap and I'm just getting my mind mentally prepared whatever time I fall asleep on Saturday 5:00 my staff is going to call me 5:30 my staff is going to call me 5:45 I'm on my pelaton bike for about 15 20 minutes go upstairs take my supplements use a bathroom get my mental self together shower dress finish up notes send them what the final thing is and the ride is that'll pick me up about 7:15 okay going to church church starts at 7:15 by the time I get there they know my time is I'm going to be up by 8 or 8:02 and then we on and popping I typically eat my breakfast between the first two services and then so at 7:15 is our first service 9:00 is our second service at West 10:30 at Maine and then we close out 12:30 at West I eat between the 715 and9 and then it's so crazy y'all Please Don't Judge Me too bad but going to my last service I do a peanut butter and jelly sandwich okay like my staff eats those give me a little sugar energy to finish out and then that's it okay so you arrived at Tabernacle Augusta one location yeah very historic church follow the great Pastor O Mar thir who was there 9 years okay yeah and and from that it has blossomed into a much larger church with multi- sight talk about the transitions that you've gone through to kind of get to that place I think that one of the things that younger preachers see is the finished product but they don't often get a chance to see the years of work that you put into something the labor the toy The Blood Sweat and Tears you know kind of make it more of a journey for them rather than arriving to the end yeah that's a great question and when I answer this I always have to be honest about my answer because I do think that Ministry is contextual Tabernacle was already an amazing Church before I got there anybody who tries to act like a church didn't have history before you it's just crazy we're just building upon what's already been there there Tabernacle we get ready to experience we 139 years this year I'm the 10th Pastor so that speaks of stability and it speaks of consistency they also had long tenure Pastor um Moss was before me nine years before him Charles Spencer Hamilton was there 40 years started by Charles T Walker who was there 39 years it's funny there's a running joke in my church I'm C3 so they had Charles Thomas Walker Charles Spencer Hamilton then Charles Edward Goodman okay and we're the literally the three longest tene pastors is Charles's oh wow so I have to say that because I think that it is unfair to present to people as if I just took this nothing Church to another level no the church has a tremendous history some of the nation's greatest pulpers have pastored Tabernacle so I wanted to be very clear about that what I will say is Tabernacle is unique in a way that very few churches historically have multiple growth spurts so when Charles Thomas Walker started the church in 1885 it was one of the largest churches in United States in the South particularly led by an African-American in history so you have these moments where man there was multiple growth spurts in a church that's rare historically most churches don't have multiple grow spurts they may have one and then when they hit their Zenith or their Pinnacle then there is a decline very rare do you have multiple tab has had that so I'm very grateful for that it's a very Pastor Le Pastor Focus Church so a lot of my issues initially would not be because they didn't understand pastoral leadership every leader in that space knows their roles I was great gra grateful enough to have a place that understood leadership respected leadership now does that mean they agree with everything absolutely not right but there was never an a disagreeable Spirit to the point where we're going to try to be out of line does that mean that I didn't have the tractors absolutely not does that mean it was not naysayers absolutely not but what it means is the culture of the church is one that this is who we are right church has never split uh and the unique thing about tab is that they have always taken on the personality of that Pastor so whatever the pastor is whatever the heart of the pastor is style of the pastor a morph to that and that's been my experience coming there 17 years ago man it's amazing very traditional church when I got there um and once again I tried to weigh and lean into the unique concoction which is my spiritual experience raise United holy church from Pentecostal love the Baptist perspective my education these kind of things it just I wanted to bring my full self in there so I also understood an issue when I got there drw and this has been something that I've I hold dear and I even when I Mentor pastors I said don't discount the fact that your Sunday morning is your greatest Evangelistic tool right if people don't enjoy your Sunday morning they're pretty much not going to connect a partner with your church so create such a great experience and I knew we had a very traditional approach to worship I wanted to expand that have a little more spontaneity when it CES to worship um I'm a musician I grew up playing organ drums Congos so I understood how important music is and when music worship and word is married I just think it's just an incredible kind of combination and so we're just really kind of plugging away um got some continu in the worship because it was small stuff like when I got there we would have a a a musician group for the 8:00 service and a musician group for 11 that just was very bad consistency for me cuz I need to feel is I'm a very feel person okay I want to feel the worship I want to feel where we're going so that was one of the first things I do was really try to win that worship tension or worship War so we did and um got it to a good place and then man we just really hit some hit some good rhythmic spots but the crazy thing is Drew that a lot of our growth was precipitated early during some some of my worst moments I lost my grandfather in 08 so once I get to the church I'm then having to deal with that tremendous loss then around 2011 I go through one of the worst years of my life I um staff concerns had a very difficult staff departure I had some leadership betrayal some folk that were in leadership that I chose to be in leadership um that left and caused some tension okay and then I had neck and spine fusion surgery oh wow I had a bad stalker situation so it was the worst like 2011 was the worst year per perer I probably was even in what I couldn't even diagnose at that point depression and the craziest thing is to this day that's still the highest year that we have people join I think I had over 800 something people join that's incredible in 2011 but it was my worst personal thing and the crazy thing is by the time I got to the end of the year I had a neck and spine fusion surgery I'm I'm having to end out the year and start the new year with a neck brace on and by the time that year ended Drew I I made this pray I was really kind of upset with God and all this stuff is happening over 000 people joining all this stuff and I'm mad because I'm like this this sucks and I ask God and God said what did you pray for me last year my closing prayer and T 2010 was God make me a great pastor and preacher for you that was my literal prayer final prayer that I ended out 2010 in and then precipitated everything that happened in 2011 and God said what did you ask me for this is the process I didn't understand and I hated it but I think that began this kind of wave yeah and one thing that I realized as a leader about me is I have no fear when it comes to Ministry okay let's do it it's what I do I may not do a lot of things great In My Life Ministry having a feel for what's next learning how push buttons that's what I do you know uh Lance Watson talks about how there's three categories of pastors there are maintainers there's decliners and there's Growers he said most people are in the maintaining position they can maintain he said there's a large cont tendency of decliners that no matter what they give they're going to make it worse but he said the smallest group the rarest group but the ones that we aspire to be are the Growers and so I'm a grower I do this and I have a way to grow right it's just innately something that I've kind of been blessed with and so I just knew when to to orchestrate what to do and and then here's the truth man A lot of times when it comes to church growth the Lord got to breathe on it mhm but I also say that you can set yourself up for growth structure to allow God's power God's kind of growth to happen by you having the right foundation the right structure I'm a big structure guy okay I want to have the right infrastructure to make sure that we can hold all things we're trying to do yeah so you're a person that passes a mega church you lead doctor group uh you're preaching itinerant on the road what advice some advice that you can give to someone who desires that kind of life but doesn't understand the sacrifice avoid it at all cost no I think man you know it's the wildest thing because I get that question um I don't know how I manage it but what I will say is I don't believe in Balance I believe in Synergy I don't believe there's such a thing as balance in in life period nothing's 5050 Synergy says that I'm living I'm I'm having to figure out how to navigate it as it comes cuz life may be 5149 most of the times it's 910 sometime it's 99 and a half and a half you know you just got to learn how to navigate it one of the greatest books I got was given to me by Bishop Claude Alexander about one or two years into my pastor that Tabernacle and he gave me a book entitled juggling elephants and it talks about a ring Master at a circus and the success of the Ring Master is to know what Circle they're in and he always told me that and that's one of the things that when you're in a certain circle be in that Circle right be present in that Circle and you can't do everything you know I had a conversation with someone the other day I'm not sure if you can have it all and just as much as we talk about the positive and things that we want Drew here's a question that most people don't ever ask themselves what am I willing to live without yeah that's good because everything you just asked me you talking about the size of a church itinerate ministry um you know doctoral work all that stuff it cost me it cost me it cost me relationships I'm single um not that I couldn't be in married but I know that to be in a marriage that individual she would be she would be she'd be miserable cuz my focus is in so much other stuff you you would have to figure out how do I fit into this and that's not easy so it's cost me it's cost me time with my family you know my family had to figure out how to share him that wasn't easy for them right um it's C it's caused some things and I think the more critical question people don't want to ask that they always ask about what they want to live with no one wants to face the hard question that with success with those things what am I willing to live without and here's the truth and I can say this in all sincerity I have no regrets are there things that I'm like I wonder if that could have been happened but I don't regret M anything yeah so okay all right now you know where we're going next yeah so how have you balanced or managed the pastorate being a single man yeah yeah you understand this I think at the end of the day carefully and with discernment I'm a human right um try not [Music] to present a a something of myself that is not true like right I'm a man I think women are incredible right it was never God's intent for me to be married but that doesn't mean that I don't yearn companionship mhm and um so I feel like you just got to kind of figure out what you can do never try to bring um shame to yourself and to Ministry uh one of the mothers at my first church she said it this way she was like you know Pastor um just don't embarrass us right but I always tell people just like you have concerns and issues in relationships I'm not immune from that as well right um um and you just try to you just try your best to know that I still want to to honor God right am I going to make some mistakes absolutely um but you still want to just just kind of honor God so I've been great gracious enough to have some incredible congregations from pleas viiew my first church to Tabernacle who I didn't surprise them they know I'm single right didn't feel any undo pressure from them like you need to be M we need a marry Pastor now that may be some people's thing but that was never never the thing where you have to be married to lead us yeah to share with us you know and pastor we love you and you know whatever that finds in your your life you do so it hasn't been something hard cuz I don't really think about it because it's all I've ever been right so it's one thing to be single and never been married I think the probably the greatest question we need to ask some people is what is it like to be single after you've been married yeah that's right I don't have any yeah thing to compare being married because I've never been married right you know so that's why that question is the hard to me it's it's what I've been it's not like I've only been this way I think the problem or challenge will come talking to someone who's been married and now is single that would be the real real one to really consider and I guess even now because of the growth of your congregation so many new people have come in since you've been there many of them you're probably their first Pastor period yeah right so they've never experienced a pastor being married yeah probably the greatest comparison is when you got to Tabernacle with Pastor Moss having had a family and you not having a family for some people you know they it was different and you know what's so funny I'm glad you said that because that was the probably the biggest and hardest transition when I first got there because when I got to Tabernacle Moss had already had National reputation he traveled extensive even as much as I travel now still PS in comparison to his itinerary back then Moss was gone which spoke to his gift his name so when I came to Tab and I wasn't as busy on the road like I am now but even back then [Music] um there was a yearning for my presence that I could not understand cuz in my mind here's the crazy thing I was us Mano imano here's what I had to learn when they were missing Moss it wasn't him they were necessarily missing because he had a proxy for him Monica and the kids so he could be gone but as long as they saw Monica there mhm it was so it took me a while to realize that's what it is okay cuz I'm like I'm not even going as much as he is but he had a proxy yeah he had a wife and children that even even though he was gone he was still represented yeah and I had to understand and come to grips that when I'm gone I'm gone yeah there's no proxy in my place so that was that was um that was eye opening because I I just was really like what am I doing why I mean he's not here I'm here but then I had to realize they were missing really the Moss family yeah and I do think there is something to that I think churches um have this tendency to to want to be a part in the family of the pastor you know the first lady uh the children those things that they want to be a part of or if it's a female Pastor in the in the husband or the children you know there's something to be said about them wanting to kind of feel that closeness yeah to them through not just that individual not just the the uh her as the pastor him as the pastor but through their families and that that creates another layer of connectivity that as a single pastor we just don't have yeah but I I mean we also have to shout out Tabernacle for what 18 years ago calling a single Pastor because there were waves like 40 years ago when my pastor was called to a church they were called in their early 20s many of them weren't married and that was an okay thing because they were seen as boy preachers you know like they weren't calling a lot of women back then unfortunately right so it's more like the boy preacher stage then they went a stage where everybody had to be married to man anywhere that was notable I think we finally gotten back into the wave now where people are not as concerned yeah about marital status because I think that some people realize now it doesn't matter whether a person's married or not if people are going to get into something they going to get into it either way you know what's interesting drew the three candidates for Tabernacle when I was up for it were single all were single wow me Cory Jes who's at who's at Tabernacle in Burlington okay Ron Sailor who end up getting married right before the process okay but we were all initially as a top three candidate single okay so so they knew exactly what they and you know they asked the question and uh I didn't run away from it I said well if if singleness is such a bad thing on being married then I guess Paul and Jesus wouldn't be considered for your pastor either you know so if that's the issue then let's approach it or if you think it's about integrity or whatever you can be married and not have integrity right like so judge don't judge it based on status judge it based on the spirituality and and the kind of things so once again shout out to tab they they took took that leap at that time and I agree with you I think now it's more i' there's more single pastors than I probably ever been cognitive or even knowing yeah um so yeah do you think that singleness has giv you more opportunities to be concentrated on some of the things you would not have it gives me more flexibility yeah I'm here I was in Atlanta last night to preach flew here to Jersey go back tomorrow so yes and I'm going it's just me I don't have to check in because I do think there is something to be said about when you have other responsibilities and family uh relationship marriage that needs your time and energy and something's going to I don't want to use the word suffer but suffer is the only word that comes to my mind but you can't do everything at all time like there's that movie out there all thing or everything or something something every time it was a movie that w a award a few years ago movie but it was like everything was happening at the same time and I'm like yo that's what life would be but I I can't so my focus has been on Ministry it has it has benefited me because I don't think that I would have been able to do as much with another responsibility on my hand which is family marriage and those things um but you know yeah so let's talk about do as much from this perspective you already had a doctorate you were already um in a very successful Church setting you go back to get a PhD explain your thought process there your okay okay I mean seriously like so um when I started at PhD in Anderson um and it's so funny my boys hit me up about it Porter and Parks because Michael didway had approached them about a PhD and Leadership that they were starting that was strictly online and it's August 2020 I was going nowhere okay let's do it mhm and what they initially thought was only going to be eight people in this program end up being 80 oh wow okay I they had no clue but once again we weren't going nowhere it's co and even at the time think about it August 2020 think about it we really still didn't know the length of what we were in I think most of us didn't know when Co first hit in that March of 2020 we were think in a few weeks six to eight at tops we were going to definitely be back by Easter of that year who would have thought two years yeah no two and a half three years i' never thought bro so when it came around man it was great I wasn't doing anything I wasn't traveling I always thought to myself you know I have a desire to to be a president of a of a college or institution HBCU preferably so I was thinking you know I was already trying to set up some things I had the demand but let me try to get a more PhD so when it came around I was like hey let's try it and so I'm grateful that I did it it gave me time to focus on it which is why I was able to get out of it in the time that I was okay because there was nothing else to do but do that sure and prepare sermons to preach in front of cameras I weren traveling nowhere I was at home MH so what was the PHD Journey like for you I enjoyed it because it was an a passionate part of me I love leadership preaching grows people but leadership grows churches so I love leadership all aspects of leadership is important once again everything goes back to me as an athlete I grew up being a point guard leadership right like I understand what that is I've always been that guy that leads I don't know why it's innate within me I'm naturally a leader I see problems I fix them like that's just how I've been wired so to be able to study that was my heart you know the funny thing Drew when I first started it I was going to really focus on the time between the black institutions the black church and the black um School in times of Crisis you notice now dealing with PhD you don't want to be too wide so I realized that is just too much that's what made me focus in on transformational leadership and adaptive leadership uh for the black black church in times of Crisis from a certain time dealing with the post pre and postco phenomenon okay so what able I was to whittle it down I kind of got more specific because I think if you're going to succeed in PhD you need to get it as narrow as possible you don't want to be too wide too much research as as limited as that was that's 204 pages of my final project on this one particular thing yeah through this qualitative research on transformational leadership dissecting the cter model how does we introduce our own because black church leadership creates its own uniqueness I think that we need to not just study how black church produces great preachers but also produces great leaders cuz we know how to navigate and go through some stuff so that was that was some of the the fruit from it so that's what happened for me I enjoyed it and I was able to knock it out uh grind it out and it's probably one of the best Journeys I've ever been to now listen I was so grateful to be through with it I'm sure grateful to be through with it yeah so I'm not doing it again that's your last degree you done I'm hope so man my my staff don't believe me I I hope so oh okay yeah all right I need challenges I get I get turned on by challenges I enjoy growing I said it that earlyer when I got that package from my mom that showed everything that my grandma kept for me it really just kind of sparked again like dog on I'm an overachiever yeah that was a lot of stuff it makes sense I mean she kept I'm find a video and put it on this I'm an overachiever that was a lot of I will take it I'm an overachiever I thought the video was gonna stop it never stop I'm an overachiever man I it it dawned on me I am an overachiever but I will say I think that was birthed in the environment my grandparents just instilled to me early you can do and be anything yeah they never limited me they always told me you can do and be anything and I'm grateful for that yeah and I believed it that's as crazy as it sounds I believed it and yeah so H Beach of hicks and this is where we're close has this book preaching through a storm um you talked about three at least distinctive moments in your life to include very um difficult grief joury one is more recent than the other um how have you been able to lead and preach through both of those experiences yeah that's a great question I don't know grace of God has been extremely good for me man preaching pastoring I go back to it at all times to that is life for me for me not to do what I am miserable the sustaining Grace God has graced me with in those moments has been therapeutic and encouraging for me so even in the preaching moment when I'm supposed to be encouraging others I feel like I'm encouraging myself those two significant deaths for me 20 8 2024 my granddad my grandma this latest one just really has been difficult um really hard also on top of that I have really talked about this a lot publicly uh I was in the process of adopting a little kid at the end of last year and I had to stop the adoption because of um information they did not disclose so the kid had a little more um emotional behavioral issues that could allow him to thrive in the environment that I was trying to create for him so I had to deal with backto back that was crushing and the only thing that sustained me is the ability to still stand every week when we was going through Co Drew most of my friends were pre-recording I could couldn't I asked my team can we keep the rhythm of Sunday going I didn't pre-record at all in Co I probably pre-recorded maybe twice but I needed the week by week stand to continue to mentally emotionally spiritually prepare but I needed that rhythm of standing to keep standing so I would do two services in Co 9 and 11 part of that was also I want to keep all my staff employed okay and my musicians but man it was the best thing cuz man I didn't want to pre I wanted to still be in the rhythm of standing every Sunday there is nothing greater to me than Sunday morning that moment of worship that time to Proclaim if the lord gave me a choice of when and where to die let me die there Wow Let me give it out one last more again let me go see the Jesus we at least need to take you to the office listen No let me go right there no but that's how much it means to me that's how I get such from the moment that when he crafted and created me this is it so through it all my remedy my safe space is preaching and pastoring and I can't see myself doing anything else wow that's I can't I can't sell calls I can't you know this is it this all I got right it's almost like my hair right like I'm going to be bald till I die this is this my funeral haircut if I take my hair off and ball so so for me that's what it's been but I also will say this and maybe this is a good word for younger preachers or even older preachers I also understand my humanity and my vulnerability so I'm grateful that I had wise counsel a pastors that I could talk to got a therapist that even now every other week I'm able to share and do um because you need an outlet I need an outlet now I'm hoping that I hold myself I got friends to I need to do better when it comes to vacation and taking time off and I'm trying to do better at that go trip I need to do that yeah Myrle Beach I'm hearing is dope yeah I heard that too Orlando Hawaii I want to do we talked about that piece so yeah yeah but that that's it I would tell that if there's anything I could tell a younger preacher if I can go back I wish I would have built in more me time cuz I was so consumed cuz I do I wasn't I was thinking on that time I was working on borrow time MH to a certain degree I give give myself Grace for my younger years cuz at that time I had a clock ticking in my head every day in my mind was taking me to that end day M so I didn't waste the day now on the other side of it I understand what was driving me now on the other side of that is if it's going to be that day it's going to be that day I need to do more things that I enjoy I love golf love traveling I love sporting events and try to figure out what that looks like once again it's not balance Synergy yeah yeah all right so last thing um I do this with everybody so look in your camera and just give us some words of wisdom to leave with today stay trusting stay faithful um for those of you who are in Ministry I really believe this and God has graced me with this because I do think we can often times get consumed with our gift and enamored with our gift I believe this to my heart God can never El Elevate you over your level of honor whoever God assigns in your life to honor honor them because God can never lift you higher than your level of honor and that's in everything honor the relationships God Graces you with honor the assignments God puts into your hands and just honor those who God assigns for you to honor I am where I'm at now not because of how gifted a preacher or Pastor it's is I really believe that God can trust me because he knows that whatever he puts in my hands and in my heart I'm going to honor and God can lift based upon that level so that's what I would say thank you Dr Charles Goodman thank you so much peace real with and Ministry leaders candid conversation for Spiritual teachers the real withr and Ministry leaders candy conversation with spiritual teachers the real with fors the ministry leaders candid conversation for Spiritual teachers the real with r and Ministry leaders candid conversation for Spiritual teachers the real with Ross now the real with Ross now do the real with cross now the real with real and raw conversation he [Music]