Hi everyone, Tim Pool here, editor of Gambling Insider. I'm here with Paul Burns, CEO of the Canadian Gaming Association, President and CEO. Paul, how are you?
I'm great, thanks for having me. It's our pleasure, thanks for coming down. We've got plenty to discuss in terms of Canada.
I think it's probably the most talked about market right now, to be fair. Well, it'll... The Ontario, province of Ontario opened their regulated iGaming market last Monday, and it was... 12 operators, 17 sites on day one, more to come. So, yeah, it's been a very popular topic so far this week and will be.
But as an open license model, which we haven't seen any in North America before, it's definitely getting a lot of attention. But we're thrilled. I mean, and the operators that have been up and running seem quite pleased.
So it's been very good. I wouldn't want to quote an exact number because I think this morning I'm seeing emails about new suppliers and new operators in the market. Because.
As you say, it's extremely popular. In terms of the regulation, could you maybe just clarify? It's iGaming in Ontario, but single-event sports betting, that's nationwide?
It is. It's an organization of gaming. It's much like the U.S. It's done province by province. The overarching legislation is the criminal code, which we needed to amend to permit single-event sports wagering, which was done a year ago.
And it was important. sports betting to get changed for a number of reasons. One, Ontario wanted to open the regulated market for iGaming, but not having sports betting would have left a big hole. And so getting that done and then being able now to open with a full online gaming sports measuring in the Ontario market has really created a great opportunity, one, for customers in the market, and two, for operators that are now entering.
In terms of the size of the market, because obviously there's been a lot of speculation, a lot of discussion. Obviously, we don't have any exact figures yet. But where would you expect it to rank in terms of if you compare it to maybe a New Jersey or Michigan, that kind of thing? I don't know.
It's hard to compare in some of these cases. But what we do with the grey market was that out of Ontario, there was about a half a billion or more dollars in GGR leaving the country, the province. There's been talk of what CI Gaming total suggests is somewhere between $1 and $1.5 billion of GGR in year one once fully operational.
Some are saying it could be a lot higher. There's a lot of, I think there's a lot of potential new customers still in the marketplace, even though, you know, Canadians have had unrestricted access to iGaming forever, and some of the biggest brands have. very good customer basis, and have entered the regulated market now. So I think it's cautiously optimistic that I think they'll probably be in the 1 to 1.5 billion GTR first year.
But it really depends if everybody who says they're going to come in are coming back. As you say, leaving that unregulated is a whole lot of tax dollars and a whole lot of revenue, leaving the country without regulation. Maybe we could break trend a little bit. And outside of Ontario, kind of, what are the latest developments and any kind of provinces that are making a little bit more noise? Because, as you say, it's been widely discussed, Ontario.
What about the rest of Canada? As everybody else, a lot of the other jurisdictions are watching. They want to see, and that's probably going to take some time to see how the Ontario market performs, what the results of that will be, and how it's... trying to get a better assessment on their own of how they can best do for the, what's the best model for them.
I don't think there's, I don't know if it's a one-size-fits-all in saying that everybody's going to do an open license model and can. I don't know if that'll be the case. But we're interested in having a dialogue as an industry with the provinces as they evaluate it because that was a great part about Ontario was, and it started here at ICE four years ago when they started consulting with industry regulators from around the world and so to say.
Looking at best practices, looking at what the opportunities were, and that's what we want them to do, the provinces, is to engage. Start talking to the industry, learn, and you'll figure out what's best for your jurisdiction. Because the gray market in the rest of Canada isn't going away. And they have to, really the only solution is actually creating a regulatory model. What that looks like is really up to them to figure out.
but to really solve the gray market because it's an industry association. We've been asking them to regulate iGaming. sort of closed that hole in the regulatory framework for a decade or more now and they finally ontario did decide to do it and we're thrilled they did and uh and so now we just make sure that the market works for everybody that's in it that's the big part is making sure that everybody can compete everybody's you know there's a level playing field and we can then you know And I think that's the success of Ontario will really determine what happens elsewhere.
Absolutely. A final note from me, I guess a more personal one, more related to kind of everyone who's here. What's it like for you to be kind of back at ICE now that we're all just over two years since the last physical show?
What's it like to be kind of, you know, everyone back together? Well, it's terrific to be here because it is being able to see members. We have a lot of members, a lot of new members who I haven't actually met face to face. But it's really great.
There's a great turnout. And it's been exciting just to reconnect with folks again. Really thrilled.
Well, I mean, likewise, we've exchanged emails and had Zoom calls, but we're also meeting for the first time in person. Exactly. And that's a great part.
That's why these events are so important. Everybody does like to get together and catch up and network. Well, absolutely. Paul, it was a pleasure.
Thanks for your time and for your answers. Thank you. Nice to meet you, and good luck with Ontario and the rest of Canada.
Appreciate it. Thanks. We'll talk soon.
Take care.