[Music] [Music] hello JBS viewers welcome back to fighting anti-semitism the iscap hour I'm David Harris and I have the privilege of serving as the vice chair of iscap what is iscap some of you will ask it is the institute for the study of global anti-Semitism and policy but most importantly it is the organization on the front lines that is trying to figure out why is American higher education going off the rails who's behind this where's the money coming from and that's precisely why after nearly 50 years in organized Jewish life I chose to spend this part of my career with iscap it's doing real urgent Irreplaceable work and I'm proud to be associated with it and I'm proud to be here once again in the studio with its founding Visionary and executive director Charles small hi nice to be here honor to be here with you David and likewise Charles since we last spoke here on JBS uh among other things isgap has issued a very much anticipated report on Columbia University you can't go into all the details but it's very much on everyone's mind what's happening in Columbia it seems to be a paradigm for what's happening across the country and even Beyond so if you would give us the headlines of the report um for our viewers sure so first of all our team at isgap our analysts and researchers I think did an amazing job with the report and and we also got a lot of uh help and insights from student leaders and from faculty who are confronting anti-Semitism you know in their in their place of work and their place of study so you know we really are indebted to the people the brave Jewish faculty and students who helped us with their insights so and often anonymously or openly uh so some people don't want to they're not quoted in our report because they're concerned about uh retaliation yeah but um you know some of them have been public and others are sort of helping us behind the scenes so and what are the headlines so the headlines is I think that Colombia is really sort of a microcosm of the problem in Academia and I would say there's a war and I'm choosing my words carefully there's a war against the Jewish people and the front line of the war one of the battlefields is higher education and we can see this being played out of Colombia we have Qatar which is a front for the Muslim brother Hood the qari regime it's a small country with less than 350,000 citizens they have a spiritual oath it's called a Baya they follow follow the religious edicts and fatwas and rulings of the Muslim Brotherhood for the viewers who are not sure what the Muslim Brotherhood is essentially it's a reactionary form of political Islam it's a very narrow I would even say a perversion of the great religion of Islam combined with European anti-Semitism and even Nazism the protocols of the Elders of Zion the lies that led to the shaah to the Holocaust is part of the rais on debt the the founding intellectual or ideological predisposition and goals of the Brotherhood um its spiritual leader ysf cawi always preached that the True Believer is or the true Muslim is obligated to finish the work of Hitler so qar which is connected ideologically and politically to this Twisted reactionary V view of Islam um funds higher education in the United States we we we estimate you know at very least tens of billions of dollars tens of billions with a B billions if not more have been funneled into higher education for the last several decades funding professorships research centers journals so it dehumanizes demonize and delegitimizes uh Israel Jewish peoplehood and Zion ISM so Edward S rashed khi Judith Butler Joseph mad all these professors who are associated with Colombia are teaching students and our future leaders that Israel is a white supremist Colonial settler society that occupies the land that needs to be destroyed or or dismantled and then you have SJP on campus the students for justice in Palestine which also is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood ideology and it's no stake that around October the 9th or 10th after the the massacre the pgam of October the 7th SJP at Colombia and around the country said that they were not just supporting the Palestinians or the people in Gaza but they were not just supporting Kamas they were Kamas so they are and Kamas is the Muslim Brotherhood also supported by Qatar in in the kinetic Warfare so they guar is funding the the military Warfare and they're also funding the propaganda Warfare so the faculty and SJP worked together uh to create the encampments rashed khi a few weeks ago who had a a retirement party at Columbia University was uh congratulated by his fellow faculty members of creating and and influencing the the encampment and the student protest movement around in in Colombia and then around the country so this was a concerted effort by a former minister of information for the PLO so they were the the encampment was uh supported by intellectually by the professors and politically by SJP that supports Kamas and we know and it's it's outlined in our report that the environment for faculty and students was so horrible that the university allowed classes to take place online because it it was not safe physically for faculty members and students to go to class at one of the you know one of the best universities in the world at one of the best universities in the United States of America the freest most democratic country in the world Jewish students were targeted physically by SJP and these students and intellectually they were targeted and socially for decades and we we put up with this for decades and we we put up with this delegitimization of the intellectual environment for decades and this is the result Charles does the report show any direct links between Qatar or Qatar uh front or funded institutions in Columbia University yeah we found some funding of Qatar of Qatari the Qatari regime to Columbia University to academic Affairs and we know through if you look at our report on SJP which came out about three or four weeks ago we show that SJP is also funded by this sort of network of people connected to qar and the Muslim Brotherhood and also to radical left-wing organizations in the United States uh and to be clear for for our viewers it's not necessarily that Qatar writes a check um on a check that says state of Qatar here is $1 million to a university they have a variety of ways of if you will masking or laundering their money don't they absolutely so we estimate in all of our work that Qatar is giving tens of billions of dollars to American universities so there's the Qatar Foundation uh and other qari regime entities that give money to the United States to higher education um they're buying uh access in PR companies they buy they they do all sorts of things to use soft power but we're also concerned that we know that the qaris are buying Banks and corporations and once they buy them then these American entities are giving money legally in a domestic transfer to other universi so we're only able to really um follow the money that comes as foreign funding but we know that domestic funding is also being orchestrated by the qari regime and that's more difficult to track Charles I I'm sure JBS viewers are are saying we're hearing these horror stories at Colombia and other universities but even more importantly what can be done about it so let's turn from description to prescription what is isgap saying should be done by by the government by donors by other sort of stakeholders in universities right what should our viewers be doing what's the call to action so I think the call to action is twofold one I think internally within the Jewish Community we need to take a step back and understand that there's been this sort of onslaught of propaganda that demonizes Israel and delegitimizes Israel and even who we are as a community and we have to take a step back and I think go back to what it means to be Jewish how we Define ourselves not how some professors at fancy universities Define us who are we based on our own terms and to take pride and and and and to be proud of who we are we have an amazing incredible vibrant wise culture with all sorts of you know we we have our books we have our teachings we have our our intellectual discourse we we have such a vibrant Legacy of wisdom of of um of ethics and morality we contribut so much we should go back and remember who we are that's so important and our education system has to reinforce that and our Jewish organizations have to reinforce this at the same hand I think we have to call on government leaders and University leaders to stop taking money from regimes from foundations from entities that literally call for the dismantling of the state of Israel and the murder of Jews around the world it's outrageous and we can see a Columbia University and other universities allowing this to take place for decades results are clear it results in overt ug an as we have spoken about on this show before there is already some law um on the books is the government um adhering to the law enforcing the law or ignoring the law the government is clearly ignore the law I think there's all sorts of Interest I think universities would like to have the free flow of money and people without accountability they have to report under the law don't they funding according to the law according to the law they must report but the law is not being and has not been enforced so the we have to call upon the federal government to enforce laws that exist and to strengthen laws there's laws before Congress and the Senate now as we speak that will strengthen you know foreign funding and and reg regulate it more stringently and I think we also have to call on our on our you know our Representatives wherever we we were sitting to call them and to make sure that they stop money coming from regimes and entities that call for the liquidation of Jewish people you know if you if you if we take a step back these these students are wrapped in cfir and Co masks calling for the destruction the murder of Jewish people and the destruction of Israel could and and there's Middle East studies programs and social theory and cultural studies program that reinforced this insane view could you imagine if some entity was funding the study of eugenics and the theology based on racial hierarchy and biology that def defined people into groups of racial Superior and inferior groups and instead of cfir covered covid mask covered students and Outsiders we had people showing up in white sheets funded by the Nazis to come to campus to call for the liquidation and the murder and the intimidation of some identifiable group those students and those faculty would be removed moved from our colleges within seconds and rightfully so but our society is tolerating this insanity why because it's a powerful soft power ideological Warfare that has taken roote and has traction it even has traction in our own in our own Community all right so I I I want to stick with the call to action because I want JBS viewers to be able after this show if they wish to pick up the phone to go to their computers so number one one uh how do they find the report on Columbia University and you mentioned students for justice in Palestine and the other reports that iscap has already issued and will soon be issuing where do they find the reports they can find them on our website they're available you can download them for free address www. isgap I g.org okay so number one number two as you said strengthen their own sense of Pride and confidence in in our tradition and our Legacy number three call on the administration to enforce its own laws by reaching out to elected officials can isgap help or do people go on their own what do they do let's be very practical so I think isgap is an amazing Research Center we don't have the resources to to do this sort of political activity there are Jewish organizations that you you're well aware of that operate APAC and other groups are operating in Washington uh and they they're doing they're trying their best I know they're doing good work and I think you know connecting to Jewish organizations reaching out to your own elected representatives and and they you know they listen to you they hear you I think that's really important to reach out to them as well we still live in a vibrant democracy and our leaders are uh there at our will so we have to call up on and obviously fourth um people should think twice before continuing to support um their almaas or their children's schools if things like this are happening on campus as they are in Columbia correct so Mark Rowan was at the Jerusalem Post conference with us the other day and you know he said it very succinctly you know would we expect African-American parents to send their children to universities that call for their elimination would we expect Indian Hindu parents to send their school their children to school in places where they're unsafe and it's difficult for them to learn so yeah tragically we have to call upon the administration of universities to do the right thing and to create a space that Fosters an environment to have you know a good liberal education where everybody is respected so JBS viewers there is the call to action go to the isgap website um reinforce your pride in who we are as a people call on elected officials to enforce existing law about donations from foreign countries like Qatar that are undermining um American education and think twice before you continue to support institutions that are threatening us as a people or endangering the health and the minds of your children finally um what you haven't mentioned yet but I know is important to you and to iscap is these threats are not just to Jews and to the state of Israel abut they are a threat to America to our notion of liberal democracy and to the Integrity of higher education just a few words on that before we move to a very special guest and this is a guest you are going to want to listen to from start to finish hang on so so definitely so issues of anti-Semitism is often perceived as a parochial problem for the Jewish people or for Israel but we know from history elel always used to teach us that anti-Semitism begins with the Jewish people but it never ends with the the Jewish people that it's a form of hatred that knows no bounds and what we can see is that the demonization of the Jewish people in Israel has been going on for decades at our best universities and just look at what's happening these thugs they thugs uh have no respect for Jewish people for Israel they have no respect for democracy they're burning American flags they're insulting and attacking police officers and anybody that is perceived as Zionist this is an anti-semitic Authority yep anti-semitic anti-American anti-democratic it's obscene Hamas subjugates and the Muslim Brotherhood subjugates women they kill gay people they have no respect for moderate Muslims they have no respect for religious minorities and they want to destroy Jewish people around the world it's outrageous it's anti-American it's anti-democratic JBS viewers I promise you a very special guest and he's just joined us in the studio his name is mosab Hassan YF some of you may know him by his best-selling book son of Hamas some of you may know him by a kind of nickname the green PR Prince most importantly he has been a man of extraordinary Valor and courage and principle and speaking on behalf of you Charles and myself we're really honored to have you here mosab thank you the honor is mine thank you for having me so there are lots of places that we'd love to begin um and we won't have enough time to cover it all but where were you on October 7th when did you first hear about what happened and were you surprised by what happened um I was actually on a remote island in the middle of the uh far far away and I hear from the news at the beginning I thought it was just another uh Hamas terrorist attack it was expected but I did not realize the magnitude of the uh uh of the attack that was uh Beyond anyone's imagination it took actually a few days for me to realize what was going on and I managed to get out of uh my Island and come to uh to the closest city and uh I took it from there and uh every hour every day the shocking footage and news and uh Devastation of Hamas Attack Just it kept growing like this um and uh it wasn't until I watched the entire Massacre film when I realized uh the uh genocide that took place everybody was saying terrorist attack uh a massacre but I saw ethnic cleansing attempt at least of 20 Jewish communities and this is where um my life would never be the same since October 7th it seems mosab that much of the world has conveniently forgotten what happened and has turned the tables and is now only assessing and criticizing and critiquing Israel for for for what's going on on the ground how do you assess Israel's response and how do you assess the world's response to Israel's response yes we are dealing with a very clear case of uh narrative inversion narrative inversion what happened on October 7 was by all standards uh ethnic cleansing um because Hamas killed people on that day based on their uh ethnicity religion nationality uh Faith uh indiscriminately in fact they did not only kill but they destroyed buildings they burnt uh trees uh they raped uh women women they behead children they kidnapped infants Elders uh we never witnessed this in our modern history we saw some Hollywood movies of atro similar atrocities and we thought it was exaggerated uh but this was uh streamed live in our uh modern day H there is nothing that can be compared to that the for example what happened later which Hamas invited and opened the the Gates of Hell uh by taking their own children as human Shields and Israel had no choice but to retaliate because a world that was not expecting from Israel to do anything about this is a mad world because what would be next if you don't do something about it and the fact that Hamas people hid behind their own children did not make them immune it's their fault it's their second or third Capital crime so unfortunately the world did not want to see Hamas uh crime of using their own children as human Shields and uh in war people die and what happened was a very clear case has been a very clear case of a collateral damage especially when Israel warned civilians gave them the military plans in advance to evacuate an entire area so it's very clear case that this is a war zone and those are victims of war collateral damage in comparison to what happened on October 7 uh morally inequivalent we cannot compare both cases and most people unfortunately uh measure it by uh uh the head count how many people died here and how many people died there and we say no it's why the people here died and why the people there died and this what can uh make the a big difference but but M if students from Columbia University or Harvard University were here they would say no no no Hamas is a legitimate resistance movement and in the name of that legit imate resistance everything is Justified you know Hamas probably better than just about any person on the planet what would you say to those students from Harvard and Colombia and elsewhere is it a resistance movement this is a very similar case of a rapist who's trying to convince the judge that it was an act of love what is resistance even if they claim it's a resistance resistance killing people indiscriminately uh kidnapping infants uh beheading babies uh killing pregnant women raping looting mass destruction wiping out entire Community what what type of resistance are we talking about and those who uh uh play with the terminology trying to uh um change the narrative and make that uh the act of October 7 was justified those are criminals they are complicit so please yeah no yeah I agree sorry to cut you off but I think you're touching on a very important point so taking a step back from Gaza Israel a lot of the work that we do at isgap is looking at the impact of the Muslim Brotherhood on the narrative on academic discourse and we've covered that qar which has a Baya a spiritual oath to the Muslim Brotherhood um is funding American universities universities all over the world and we we've uncovered tens of billions of dollars from Qatar I which is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood which is changing the discourse which is demonizing Israel and the Jewish people and also in a way glorifying Kamas and any Muslim Brotherhood related entity how how do you see the role of qar in in this situation they're funding Hamas in the kinetic Warfare and they're funding the narratives at universities at the best universities in the United States and the Western World what what do you think of this well this is very important it's not only Qatar we we have hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world uh who sympathy with the Palestinian cause uh and we have also uh millions of westerners who sympathy with the victim because in my opinion with the victim with the victim with the victim mentality I in general in in general so they they wherever there is a victim Underdog uh they feel now sympathy towards that because they are victims themselves so it's not I think the the issue is not only campuses but I agree with you that there is uh Muslim Brotherhood uh work for a long period of Time in the West and they have so many fronts every time you it's like a snake with 99 heads uh every time you cut a couple of heads it grows 10 more uh the Muslim Brotherhood has many fronts uh the United States Congress failed to outlaw them three times which I find very strange of course you know I appreciate the American freedoms and how uh we protect the freedoms of people even though it's a very some of them play in very gray area and exploit the freedoms of this country and this is something I appreciate about America but when we are dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood and and the country the birth place of the Muslim Brotherhood which is Egypt outlawed the Muslim Brotherhood in its country of Origins so I don't understand why the United States is not outlawing the uh the Muslim Brotherhood Qatar uh uh host uh the late Yousef Al cardawi she YF kwi they gave him the platform he spread so much hatred Al jazer has been spreading uh so much hatred globally and in the Middle East so uh this is I think their uh way of um uh finding a way to become a big player even though it's coming at the expense of Israel security and the spread of force narrative the uh victimhood of uh people who simply have self-inflicted uh uh pain so uh yes there's lots of money but also the Muslims outnumber the Jewish minority and this is why from the beginning of the war I said that the Muslims need to back off because this is not a joke uh propagating in huge numbers spreading false uh narrative uh worldwide using the social media which doesn't know know uh political boundaries they invaded campuses they invaded everywhere uh and they made it sound or look that the majority stand with Palestine against Israel but this is uh again uh the Muslim uh moral Decay that they know what happened on October 7 was a genocide but according their religion genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Jewish people is actually a virtue because the Quran praise it Muhammad did it supposedly I don't know if Muhammad ever existed but according their uh historians even and in both these are the two main uh uh narratives of the life of Muhammad uh there's Jewish ethnic cleansing in the Arab peninsula so if Muhammad did that to the Jewish people the Muslims are waiting for the end time where you know the the stone and the tree and uh uh other objects are going to tell the Muslims there is a Jew hiding behind me come and kill him yeah this is a very deep level of human delusion and when we take basically finances oil money uh gas money uh iCal power uh a majority of people and the misinformed westerners then add to that uh collateral damage of what's supposed to be a superpower of the region against uh refugee camps this is the recipe for for a disaster so M and there are many questions that emerg from what you just said but one of them is what you say is so clear and yet in Washington um it's not so clear why why does the US government um continue to uh look at Qatar favorably uh why does the US government not in fact ban uh the Muslim Brotherhood as you said three times uh it failed what's going on that prevents these things from happening in Washington is it a blind spot is it something else well I think any government uh compromise to a certain degree uh in the Diplomatic relation uh to other countries especially in a region that is uh uh is conflicted uh and they are looking for uh a mediator they're looking for a force that can't talk to Hamas and Israel at the same time uh a mediator a middleman and I don't know what else they had to compromise I like know everything that the US government is doing but it's very clear that uh the United States compromised fundamental principles uh when the US president propose and invite uh Savages like Hamas terrorists that is a movement designated as a terrorist organization according to American law and simply I don't want to say big them but ask them to come to the negotiating table and take the deal so when we have the um the head of the uh greatest democracy on Earth beginig for negotiations from terorist who actually is are turning him down it's very humiliating it's breaking all the protocols of democracies and uh uh most importantly um changing the uh fundamental principles of no negotiating with terrorists so so building on what you just said you had five minutes alone with President Biden now putting aside partisanship Democrats Republicans you had five minutes alone you have this unique story of understanding the Middle East you come out of Hamas father um what would you suggest or urge the United States of America to do today um now as policy what look first of all I don't understand all the files on the table because when the when the president is there he has so many things that he need to take in consideration so this is something fair enough yes so I cannot tell the president what to do but in a situation where we have a genocide committed uh uh against a uh religious minority that suffered a Holocaust in the past that there there has been continuous attempts to anilate-based and I see the enemy out for uh blood so well I have to drop my interest right now because this is now priority because if we don't uh finish Hamas and Iran and hisbah simultaneously it is going to be the birth of a Savage Empire that actually will backfire and the United States eventually will pay the price because in fact what we are wiing right now the tolerant message of the United States president and by the way this started also by the Obama Administration and his Cairo speech that actually sent the whole region uh in in Flames for our viewers if we may pause the the Cairo speech was at Al AAR it was in 2009 correct it was and he insisted at the time if I remember that representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood be invited honored guests front row they were in attendance yeah right and um that was the beginning of missteps shall we say absolutely because this message of Tolerance is sending tolerance for the intolerant yes it's a it's perceived by the uh other side as uh weakness it is not perceived as as virtue and it's coming from a place of power um so unfortunately it uh it doesn't serve the purpose and now what's happening like for example when the United States official position is hesitant and uh compromised uh this is going to encourage other terrorist groups to escalate and this is what we are seeing what we saw from Iran and what we are seeing uh from hisbah if the United States from day one like the adequate response and I said this the first week of the war and I I actually said this to the uh President Biden or you did I said this from the I have it and uh ER it was from the early beginning that show the might of the United States this is the time if you don't want this to go into a global chaos show that this cannot be tolerant the adequate response to the massacre to the genocide that happened I asked the president of the United States to destroy the Iranian nuclear Plantation immediately but well we we know the answer because it hasn't happened here we are and and did the war end the war got worse and now we are at the verge of global chaos yeah so aoo of Iran so do you think it was uh a coincidence that October 7th happened when it seemed as if Israel Saudi Arabia and other Sunni countries are on the verge of making peace do you think this was a an attempt by Iran and its Access of Evil as balah and Hamas to derail the peace process do you think they're connected of course there is connection because Hamas Iran uh hisbah thrive in chaos and uh uh if there was a peace process between the superpowers of the region and that was Saudi Arabia and Israel of course to their side Egypt as the the biggest uh Arab country uh plus the Arab Emirates that's it the Iranian rule is uh is over uh do you so in Gaza in the Palestinian Society are there people who have are sick and tired of Kamas are there people willing to wanting a change but they can't EXP Express themselves do you have friends allies that reach out to you that uh quietly maybe because of the situation do you have a sense that there's opposition to this leadership look Hamas has opposition uh in uh in Gaza and because they oppressed their rival parties but this is a small minority the vast majority of gazin up to October 7 and on the day of October 7 we supportive of Hamas if I tell you other is all Li to you even though they don't like Hamas iron grip the question is not how many gazin support Hamas because this is very hard to find the statistics but I guarantee you that the vast majority of Gans agree on the destruction of Israel and this is where I am certain and I think uh whether if they want Hamas to do the job or Islamic Jihad to do the job or the public front or the Palestinian Authority this um Revenge mentality the uh tribal uh blood lust that uh coming from the 7th Century Arabia a tribes would go in those cycles of uh revenge and retaliation for eternity until they annihilate their opponent or get annulated and this is the the mentality of the people we are dealing with so it's not how many Hamas also so does the Palestinian Authority want Israel to exist and who is um launching this global Assault against Israel Pro prior to October 7 and after October 7 uh 10 years uh the Palestinian Authority has been funding the BDS to delegitimize Israel to inite against the Jewish people to portray Israel as an state it was never about Palestine for them they just the the entire anything Palestine Affiliated is a hostile in a way or another uh to the existence of the state of Israel and this is how they make uh Fortune out of it this is how they gain power this is their game uh one quick point I saw the former prime minister Bennett of Israel was on television two days ago and he was saying after the defeat of Kamas that he would like to see Israel Saudi Arabia the Emirates and maybe Egypt take control of Gaza and do reeducation and try change the school system and try them try to get the population away from jihadist uh ideology do you think that's feasible if this all these Powers came to try and change the the culture the ideology of Gaza look it's too early to to talk about uh uh peace Arrangement because we are still in the midst of this war we don't know what's going to happen on the Northern front it's escalating yeah and this could lead to uh the destruction of uh Southern Beirut could lead to uh uh Lebanon Invasion we don't know uh the bill of this war yeah so how can we talk about uh peace if we don't know the actual price of this war but I wish I can argue with you in my in my opinion my opinion that um the whole Abraham uh Accord has been compromised as well um because in diplomacy uh people cannot uh ignore the public opinion and in the the public opinion in the Middle East is Raging against Israel in this moment uh so many Arab countries even though they don't like Hamas and they want Hamas actually gun and that includes Saudi Arabia um but they still cannot make a public move yet I think there is some arrangement that Saudi Arabia U the Arab Emirates want to take part uh in rebuilding Gaza and sending uh a force uh but I'm not sure that this is ideal uh I like I like the idea of their partnership much better than Qatar if I had to choose between Saudi Arabia and Qatar I would definitely choose Saudi Arabia and yet there are um senior figures in the west like Joseph Bell the foreign minister of the European Union who believes that this is the ideal time to launch a two-state search you have three European countries in the last couple of weeks Spain Ireland and Norway that thought this is the perfect time to unilaterally recognize a non-existent Palestinian State as a sovereign state um and you have voices in Washington some who say we need to pursue the two-state solution uh are have they fallen on their heads do they know something that that we don't know what explains this you know the two-state solution is is a similar case to the two husband solution it cannot work um and the people are trying to force not only one elephant through the eye of a needle they're trying to uh to force two elephants the country is very small the territory is very small and U the international community's attempt uh to uh establish a Palestinian uh political entity uh since Oso uh went in the worst possible way what we are dealing with today is actually the consequences of Osa that Israel uh trusted that uh what's soall Palestinians which is in my opinion nothing but uh a dangerous ideology that is has been uh aiming to destroy Israel not to build a Palestinian state so uh the world uh leadership United Nation even the United States and Israel bought uh the lie that there is a possibility for a Palestinian State as a neighboring state of Israel but unfortunately but if not what's the alternative M Eternal conflict no actually I think uh a second Palestinian state or uh could be an eternal uh conflict um but in my opinion the people of the West Bank or Judea and Samaria you know we are not Palestinians the children who are born there are not Palestinians uh when I was born I was born with a Jordanian birth certificate our ethnicity Arabians even though we may not even qualify to that because we we are mixed but let's say uh respectfully that we are Arabs and pales Ian is a political ideology that was uh of a strange combination uh made by the Muslim Brotherhood the KGB the Romans the British uh uh mandate and somehow Yas arat adapted uh this ideology and the ideology like a snowboard just kept developing into this very strange uh uh uh entity that has in it the islamist the Communist the uh all type of strange uh ideologies not even one thing and all of it is aiming at the destruction of Israel or at least you know those who say the Palestinian Authority does not want to destroy Israel then I say what does it mean actually to go on a uh global Assault delegitimizing Israel systematically for many many years what does that mean what it means to uh in principle delit by Israel this is the first step and so the Palestinian Authority Under the Umbrella of Palestine is doing this type of terrorism and Hamas Under the Umbrella of Palestine is doing uh committing genocide against the Jewish people and they're playing that this is the good cup and this is the bad cup and let's go into their rabbit hole and what I say no let's get to the surface tell me why what makes you a Palestinian Define Palestine and this has been my work for the past few months that I want to take it to square one we must Define Palestine if Palestine is not a nation or ethn ethnic group if it's only an ideology then we need to understand your Constitution what do you stand for what do you want is your objective to build the Palestinian state or your objective to destroy the state of Israel CU as long as the various Palestinian groups conflicted among each other that one party want this and one party want the opposite extreme then uh how can we uh figure them out how can we negotiate with them because we they don't have a legitimate leadership that agree on National agenda plus they don't have a nation it's not a nation it's putting political gangs and tribes that extremely conflicted so with that said when people come and try to force a Palestinian uh State who is going to rule that state who's going to be in charge of it and are they accountable leadership to their people are they responsible or tomorrow they are going to use their own children as human Shields again if they cannot be trusted with their own children how can I trust them with statehood up to this point they just proved to be irresponsible gamblers who gambled with children's blood so in this type of uh chaos I come to the a stable developed democracy and threaten them with a boycott sanctions if they don't accept this impossible uh reality so they are pushing Israel to the corner again because this is not a matter of Palestinian sovereign state as much as it's a matter of uh existential threat to the state of Israel that's the two State solution So based on what you said so you know for many years at isgap our Research Center we've been warning that anti-Semitism and the de the dehumanization of Israel the Jewish people of Zionism of democratic principles uh was reaching a very dangerous level and people really didn't pay attention to us they thought we were extreme we crying wolf and uh but after October the 7th I think the Jewish communities in shock especially in the United States they knew there was anti-Semitism in the Middle East they knew in Europe things were getting difficult but people perceive the United States to be some somehow different and disconnected from the world what would be your message we have a PR predominantly Jewish uh audience what's your message to American Jews what what do you think they should be aware of post October the 7th with this sort of onslaught of anti-Semitism in the United States in our best universities and our media what do you what do you tell a community that I think is a bit it's it's in shock since October the 7th what would be your message or your advice to them look there are also different views within the Jewish Community but I think everybody agrees uh that uh there is anti semitism and there is existential threat at the moment now I think the different views is how to approach the conflict and many people they're trying just they think we are still at the stage of explaining and this is where I disagree with the the liberal Jews in the United States and say guys we are at War and this is a very serious War and why I say we are at War because I am also my life is in danger the same enemy that wants to any the state of Israel this enemy wants me to cease to exist for just being for no crime I committed against them except I saved their lives and uh many innocent lives so why do they want me to exist it's a very important question and if they keep pushing that uh we have no choice but to fight so when we are at war in my opinion uh we must uh fight we must fight the good fight and I understand many of the liberal Jews they don't want to open a global front with the Muslim world uh with the Americans with but hey if this is the reality if this is what we are facing then we bring the truth forward that's uh Your Existence that's my existence that the future of the entire region so uh being truthful is a lot better than being hypocrite or being afraid being Fearless I understand that we are outnumbered cuz again when we have hundreds of millions of people posting material propaganda it becomes the reality of so many uninformed people um so my opinion we need to shift our strategy from uh defense to offense until at least the end of this war then after that we can explain the uh chain of events that brought us there and I think the artists the filmmakers the uh everybody can H do their rule but now we are at War and when we're at War I think we we must fight the good fight but some of those shoes that you're talking about and Charles and I know a number of of people who think like you described if they were sitting here would say but if only we had a different government in Israel maybe things would look different number one number two you're painting they would say to you respectfully you're painting with a broad brush there are peaceful elements in in the Muslim world uh that we can work with uh that reach out to us um so and number three if only Israel had done more for the Palestinians in the past we wouldn't be at this point I've heard those arguments Charles you have countless times hundreds thousands of times would anything have been different if there had been for example a left of center prime minister of Israel on October 7th would anything have been different if um uh if Israel had made more concessions earlier than it has what what's your message to us and to them well the leftists in Israel were were killed and kidnapped on October 7 those were the residents of the they get a pass yes they Hamas did not have mercy on them and I think the desperate attempt to blame somebody in the middle of an ugly War this is an ugly war and no democracy ever uh dealt with a situation like this uh and uh to start blaming that this is right and this is left and this is because a corrupt leader and non-corrupt leader and H they want to change uh a government in the middle of a emergency situation I mean it is possible Israel has the power to do that but why to give Hamas the Victory and in fact all this game uh blaming um BB I'm not a big fan of the man but for now I prefer he stays in in office and carry on do the job he's doing a good job and uh I don't want to change governments in the middle of the war because this is what H is counting on Hamas is counting on the collapse of the Israeli government and some liberal Jews in the United States are taking advantage of the situation and some also um leftwing uh activists in Israel and politicians taken advantage of the Hostile situation to uh try to bring the government down uh this is not now the time for political game and uh when when people U they need to understand the victims of this war they need to understand that we still have hostages they need to understand that we must rid of Hamas for the sake of Arab and Jewish children in in the region it's not the time now to uh uh to change governments unfortunately we have just um one or two minutes left but um though it's a big question maybe you have a short answer for it yeah again there are those um in in in the Jewish world and elsewhere who say but there was never a holocaust European style Holocaust in the Arab world Jews lived peacefully and we are not at the end of the day anti-israel not anti-semitic we're only anti- Zionist or anti-israel uh and the Quran not only has what you mentioned about the Jews but it has other uh elements that show respect for the Jews so they they try and weave a different Narrative of the pr and the future what's your response to them look it's are they right or are they misreading the situation at risk of their lives look the uh the Quran uh does not uh is not fair towards the Jews that's a lie there are some Muslim sulon that came hundreds of years after Muhammad's death and they treated the Jews uh in Spain fairly and this is where you know many of the Islamic scholars say you know that this IM or this Sheikh of that era treated the Jews fairly Omar gave some Jewish bigger salary from the Islamic treasury Etc and they tried to build a theory on it but the Quran is very loud and the Quran is the most legitimate Islamic source of legislation and it's it's filled with hatred towards the Jewish people as disobedient people so okay I understand that people can try to build uh whatever they want narrative try to counter the mainstream Islamic uh narrative that hates the Jews could work but isn't this what we've been doing for uh 14 centuries trying to avoid uh uh full scale confrontation with the Muslim majority and what's the outcome a genocide and by the way they did it they were complicit with the Hitler just roughly 100 years ago the Muti of of Jerusalem right it's in their blood and what do I want to do with a minority of Silent peaceful Muslims who don't who don't have the moral responsibility to step forward and say what happened October 7 is not not acceptable but because it goes according their Quran they justify so with that said uh let's be truthful let's not um go into this Rabbit Hole of Islam let's call things for what they are and let's fight the good fight and God's willing the truth is to our side God the god of Israel is with the Jewish people the Jewish people is a blueprint nobody can remove it from the domain of Consciousness any attempt actually to remove it means the collapse of every society of the entire structure so with that said uh we this is the time where we need to have our faith in the Universal Design what made the Jewish people survive 5,000 years of atrocity they defi time space everything and they survived it's a miracle Israel is the miracle of the world and Israel is not a political entity and Israel is not uh right and uh left with that said let's have a little bit of Faith there is God there is truth we are we are minority in this but God's willing the truth will uh Prevail that was quite a powerful and inspiring way for mosab to end on behalf of my colleague Charles small and myself we want to thank you mosab for the privilege of being with you uh here in the studio JBS viewers uh on behalf of Charles small and myself thank you for joining us for fighting anti-Semitism the iscap hour we'll look forward to seeing you the next time bye-bye [Music]