if it were just about calories every person listening who's ever been weight loss resistant wouldn't have been weight loss resistant there's a time to fast there's a time not to fast because if it were just that easy all of us could drop weight Cynthia th low a tedex speaker and fasting expert the bestselling author of intermittent fasting transformation and the creator of the everyday Wellness podcast fasting and in of itself can help with blood pressure management lipid management the health of our gut microbiome Parkinson's or Alzheimer's Alzheimer's really is a variation of diabetes of the brain mitophagy autophagy this can be life shifting I actually came to fasting and realize like I feel so mentally clear now I recognize what true and trinic hunger feels like I have less bloating my bow movements are more regular I'm sleeping better fasting has a season and a reason I did not intermittent fast for probably four to 5 months after that hospitalization when someone says to me I do omad and they're a woman or they have a 20-hour fast with a 4our feeding window the first thing I ask them is how much protein are you eating every day do not White Knuckle fasting if it's not working for you it might be there's a certain time in your life or maybe it's where you are in your cycle or there's too much stress now people will argue till the cows come home Stevia doesn't impact my blood glucose well I bet you it impacts your insulin they're now adding sugar to Salt so that people want more of it we want to clean fast we don't want to fudge it let's talk about what breaks a fast so you mentioned coffee why does that break a fast see Cynthia welcome thank you it's such a pleasure to connect with you I've spent over a 100 hours researching fasting and there is so much different information out there and that's why I'm so excited to speak to you Cynthia a fasting expert with over 10 years of experience and you wrote the book about fasting and how to get results in just 45 days and there's different types of fasting there's prolong fasting time restricted eating there's autophagy fasting intermittent fasting and all of those different types of fasts are going to to get you different results so before we get into the results and the different types of fasting it's very important to understand the mechanism of fasting what it does in the body so my first question Cynthia what is the biggest thing that fasting does in the body oh gosh there's so many I I think on a very basic level it's helping people understand that we have this reduction in inflammation we lead hedonistic Lifestyles we largely Ultra process food um a lot of the things that we do we don't sleep enough we don't manage our stress and so the consequence of that is that we can be dealing with chronic inflammation it can show up as weight loss resistance it can show up as pain or inflammation and so on a very basic level when we're eating less frequently we are helping to reduce the burden on our bodies and can help uh help with reducing inflammation I also think about the neurocognitive benefits you know things like lowering our risk for developing Parkinson's or Alzheimer's and for anyone that's listening Alzheimer's really is a A variation of diabetes of the brain and so helping people understand how critically important it is to make sure that we have healthy and optimized glucose and insulin levels in the body I think many people may not even be aware of something called autophagy this waste and recycling process that goes on in our bodies and it goes on in largely in an unfed state so when we are eating we are in a state where we are storing Cal cies in many instances when we are not eating we are in a state where we are potentially you know going in and using stored energy for fuel now people will argue when autophagy really starts to upregulate itself and so I remind people that even if you fast for 16 hours you're still conferring benefits but we know typically the longer the fast the more autophagy and helping people understand that those disease disordered cells organel that could have the potential to go on and create disease our body does a beautiful job of Packaging ing them up and getting rid of them and after the age of 40 most of us have slow dhagy which is why we deal with chronic disease States I also think about improved biophysical markers so fasting in and of itself can help with blood pressure management it can help with lipid management it can help with the health of our gut microbiome which I know is a really hot topic for many of us right now and then just on a on a very basic level the concept of mental Clarity understanding that when we are eating less frequently we are a able to actually break down stored fatty acids um we have the potential to produce ketones one imp particular called beta hydroxy beate diffuses across the blood brain barrier so I think many people are surprised that when they start fasting and they've been doing it long enough they're like wow I really feel great like when I do interviews like this I like to do them fasted because I have so much more mental Clarity it's not that I normally fall asleep after eating but for me it's that mental sharpness and mental aptitude which is really really important but those are some of the basic things that I think about with a traditional you know shortened time frame in which you are not eating so helping people understand that you will not starve that your body really does know and all of us even thin people have enough stored energy that their body can tap into but in our traditional modern-day Lifestyles we've been condition conditioned to overeat to over consume to eat too frequently and we've in in a in a sense we have mucked up our body's ability to use different types of fuel substrates or different types of fuels to fuel our body so fasting will help us get back to that alignment of being able to use stored energy both carbohydrates and fats as fuel sources and for a lot of individuals this can be life shifting especially individuals that are primarily carbohydrate burners they're people that get hangry if they're not eating every two to three hours or they have energy slumps as some examples or they become weight loss resistant is really speaking to the fact that we are not properly fueling our bodies I wanted to zoom in in terms of the hormonal changes that happen and the first one is insulin how fasting affects insulin how does that happen yeah so insulin is this hormone that tends to get a bad WP uh largely because there are so many of us that are insulin resistant or metabolically unhealthy insulin is a hormone that will be impacted by what we choose to eat so obviously fat is have the most negligible impact on blood sugar as well as insulin secretion then protein and then carbohydrates probably not surprisingly so helping people understand that insulin one of many insulin one of many byproducts of insulin is that insulin is a helps with a lock and key mechanism depending on what we eat our body is constantly looking for homeostasis it is constantly looking to maintain an appropriate range of blood glucose so blood sugar and you know after we eat our body is looking to move blood glucose into the cell so moving it intracellularly and Insulin one of insulin's roles is to help our bodies do this but what can happen over time is that if our body is constantly flooded with very high blood sugar levels and I would represent that is a blood sugar level of 140 is damaging the endothelium it is damaging the lining of our blood vessels our retina retinal um vessels our kid vessels um becomes problematic so that that very narrow index of where we want to see our blood glucose levels when it over time if we are constantly overeating carbohydrates eating ultr processed foods there's a lot of really significant research on Ultra processed foods as an example but over time we can wear out those insulin receptors and so it makes it harder and harder for our body to regulate moving blood glucose or moving glucose into cells moving it intracellularly and then it's it's almost like someone's knocking on a door and insulins you know that cannot hear you know the knock can't move the glucose into the cell and over time we start developing insulin resistance ultimately hyper insulinemia which is hugely problematic and is really at the basis of most if not all chronic disease States so when I'm thinking about insulin and helping people understand it's important for us to eat it's important for us to be conscientious about what we're eating but it's also helping people understand that when our insulin levels are high we are not able to access storage F it's when our insulin levels are low which is like in between meals that's what should happen while we're sleeping that is what should happen or in a fasted State this is when our body has the ability to tap into fat stores to use as energy and that's an important distinction so as an example I routinely draw fasting insulin levels on my patients and I encourage anyone who's watching this to ask for your physician nurse practition ition position's assistant to get a fasting insulin check several times a year I probably check mine three or four times a year you want that range at least here in the United States between two to 5 milligrams per deciliter I cannot tell you how many women I've worked with who have fasting insulin levels that are 20 25 30 and they can't figure out why they can't lose weight because their blood glucose may look fine their A1C which is a marker of 90 days of blood glucose control looks okay but the is oftentimes very much the first sign of insulin resistance is that fasting insulin is high and if your fasting insulin is high you are not going to be able to lose weight and there's many reasons why this can happen but that's the big takeaway about insulin that I think is so important for your listeners to understand so it's not that insulin is bad elevated insulin is bad all the time and that that's what fasting does along with having a good diet it lowers your insulin so you have these periods of not eating so that you can your insulin can can come down your glucose can come down very interestingly you did mention the um testing your fasting insulin and I know that you did an interview with Dr kenberry so he was saying that you should test your fasting insulin levels way before testing glucose and that is a precursor towards knowing if you're pre-diabetic that is so important it is very important and sometimes if you look at the research it's suggesting that that fasting insulin can start to disregulated 5 to 10 years prior your glucose being abnormal so to give you an example a fasting glucose in the 90s is not benign like let's be very clear I think it was Robert lustig who taught me that a fasting glucose in the 90 to 99 range you have a 30% likelihood of developing diabetes this is fast this is not after eating a meal but helping people understand that we have this very narrow range and unfortunately and I say this with great respect and reverence you know as a licensed healthc care provider how many of us have watched our patients become diabetic before our eyes and we're not looking for the elephant in the room so I would 100% agree I always say fasting insulin is one of the first Labs I do with my patients and clients and for everyone that's listening it's usually very inexpensive here in the United States you can go to own your Labs or direct Labs I have no affiliation with either you can easily and inexpensively get that number and if it's not within that two to 5 milligrams per deciliter there are things you can do to change that that's the important message is it's not if it's high there's nothing you can do you absolutely can lifestyle is medicine and certainly if you are working with someone that draws that already kudos to you I think it sometimes I think the average is that um medical research takes about 20 years to trickle down into clinical practice but if your physician or NP or PA is not ordering that Tes ask for it if they're not willing to order it sometimes I hear my doctor doesn't know how to interpret it that's a copout um I would still get that lab done very inexpensively it's probably like the cost of two coffees two fancy fofy coffees and a coffee house you can definitely afford it get it checked find out what your number is and then adjust your lifestyle accordingly so fasting insulin is very important to test another thing I want to ask about which is fasting how it affects the hormone so it affects your grin which is your hunger hormone so it's going to regulate that it affects your cortisol it's going to bring that down so you feel more calmer and happier but I'm very interested in leptin that is your fullness hormone can you talk more about how fasting different types of fasting can affect your leptin yeah I mean I I think that for so many of us we have gotten so conditioned from what fueling our body feels like what is true intrinsic hunger feel like what makes our bodies feel good and so the the hormone leptin and you can become leptin resistant just like you can be insulin resistant and this is very important for people to understand because it's not as if leptin and insulin resistance go hand in hand you can be one without the other so let me be very clear because I oftentimes will hear healthc Care Professionals saying oh they go together sometimes they do and sometimes they do not I've had people with normal insulin levels that have high leptin levels so let's back up and talk about this hormone it's a hormone that is drawing communication between our stomach and the Brain this can become disregulated it can become disregulated because we've lost our ability to determine when we're hunger hungry it can be impacted by meal frequency choices of foods I'm going to keep hammering on the ultra processed food piece but we know based on research the average person here in the United States 70% of their diet is ultra processed foods we know if you're eating that much ultr processed foods you are consuming way more calories you may not even be aware of it so you're consuming highly inflamed flammatory foods that very likely are food-like substances let's be clear and by this I mean I'm not talking about you have a three ingredient packaged food I'm talking about the stuff that is 90 ingredients most of which you don't know what it is um it makes you hyper phasic meaning that it you know whether it's the protein bar that's kind of disguised as a candy bar whether or not it's the crackers the cookies the Doritos the Cheetos it disregulation between our stomach and our brain and that's designed there's a bliss Point these processed food companies design foods to be as Blissful and addictive as possible and so understanding that a lot of these foods will trick our bodies into thinking we are not full when in fact we are and so leptin is that hormone when it's functioning optimally you're you will have these stretch receptors in your stomach the communication to your brain says you are full let's stop eating and people that have letin resistance they just keep eating and eating and eating and it is not that they lack willpower it is not that they aren't trying hard enough it is that their their brain has been hijacked by these food- like substances that are just regulating this communication pattern there are other reasons why this can happen even things like mold and MotoX sins can inflame the brain but from a very basic level I think most of us know when we don't have letin properly regulated because our appetite just doesn't get shut off I will give an example um I speak very openly that I am gluten grains and dairy free I'm very happy in this space but I can tell you that if someone were to give me a gluten-free cookie or a gluten-free pie or a gluten-free cupcake my disregulation in my brain just starts to get scattered and it we can make the argument that it's the flour that's doing that because flour can be very addictive or the sugar that's doing it but for me and an otherwise very healthy person that eats a nutrient-dense diet even I can get some disregulation whether it's the dopamine hits that are going on in the brain combined with the sugar and the flour that can impact my leptin signaling and tell me oh you can have another piece of pie you can have another five cookies you can have more cake and so this happens even in healthy people but traditional leptin's job and there's many functions of leptin but the big kind of hierarchy prevailing macro view is that this is our hormone that helps us understand when are full and when we are eating less frequently we're going to get to a point where we recognize what is true in termic hunger I know what that feels like I know how my stomach feels I get that stomach growl it's not that I'm dehydrated so it can reinforce that communication pattern you know the gut brain axis is a real axis helping us understand to properly regulate our nutritional patterns and I find for a lot of people that that and in of itself is one of those benefits of intermittent fasting that we probably don't talk enough about you know for many people they're so accustomed to eating too frequently too often the wrong types of macros and they don't realize that that meal frequency and the improperly balanced macros in and of itself can really do significant and profound uh I don't want to use the word damage it sounds very pejorative but can disregulated this delicate communication pattern in a way that reinforces these maladaptive behaviors so as Cynthia mentioned how often we eat is just as important as what we are eating but the thing is our bodies are very unique in terms of how they respond to different foods even if you're following a keto or a carnival lifestyle and that's why it can be very important to test how certain foods affect your body in real time and that's exactly what Nutri sense offers they offer a program which includes a continuous glucose monitor which is just a small device that you put on the back of your arm so basically after having a meal or a drink all you do is open the neutri sense app tap and you will see in real time what's happening to your glucose levels and the great thing about nutrients is that you don't have to do it on your own they will match you with a nutritionist that will help you understand the data they will go through the CGM data and come up with a personalized plan just for you and this is really important so that you'll understand what foods affect you how often to eat and what to eat and this can help you create a healthier lifestyle in the long term and I have used the Nutri Sense app and as you know I follow a carnival diet so it wasn't so much what I was eating it was what I was drinking using the nutrient app I found that having my midm morning coffee spiked my glucose so what I did was I took out the coffee and I noticed I felt calmer I felt less anxious during the day and I was sleeping better and the great thing about it now is that I can understand the coffee wasn't great but I'm more more interested to understand what Carnival foods are affecting me in the longer term so what I want to do is test different Carnival Foods over the next 6 months using the Nutri Sense app so I can see exactly what foods are affecting me plus the drinks and I can also make better options for myself to have a healthier lifestyle in the future so if you'd like to try nutrients just go to nutrients. iob and use the code five minute body to get $50 off and they'll also give you one month free nutrition support thank you so much to Nutri sense for sponsoring this video but circling back to the time between meals it's very important you mentioned this fancy word in your other videos which is the migrating Motor complex I was like oh that sounds fancy can you explain what that means and why it's important to have that break for your gut in between meals yeah so the migrating Motor complex or the MMC which is again one of these kind of nerdy factoids and it's real science helping people understand it's almost functioning as is a janitor in the digestive system so you know when we allow four to five hours in between meals this migrating Motor complex it's just looking to push food forward it's also helping to clear up pathogens or things that don't belong in the gut microbiome but when we're eating with great frequency it mucks up this mechanism so probably most of your listeners are familiar with something called sibo so small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and if you talk about sibo and you look at the research in many instances that mechanism is disrupted so this gut motility mechanism is not working properly so not only are they at greater risk for developing overgrowth of non-beneficial bacteria or fungi because there's even SEO now small intestinal fungal overgrowth which sounds scary but helping people understand that when we are in an unfed State it's not just that we have less bloating and maybe we have better digestion it's that our body gets to optim imize this very delicate process of moving food forward clearing out pathogens things that do not belong and that when we're eating all the time it doesn't allow our body to be properly regulated and so I think it's important to help people understand that when we are not optimizing our digestion this is when we deal with constipation this is when we deal with diarrhea or lots of gas or bloating how many women tell me they are chronically habitually blo Ed and that can come from a lot of different things so the migrating Motor complex is this little nerdy mechanism that goes on in the body it's very important it's important for us to understand that that that distance between our meals allows our body to be get ready it's almost like it has to reset itself to be able to consume food again and helping people understand this is why I talk about not eating every 2 to three hours because you're not allowing your body to set up this mechanism to move food forward and address these potential pathogens that you could have been exposed to or even ingested I always think about you know the fact that regular lettuce has plenty of little parasites on it and that's why we wash our our vegetables before we eat them but in someone who has a healthy gut microbiome or a healthy stomach acid which is you know in the stomach they should be able to as a first line of defense be able to kill off that parasite but for a lot of people that don't have a healthy digestive system it makes them more susceptible to picking up opportunistic infections so you mentioned the gut microbiome can you explain for people watching what is the gut microbiome and what is the effect that fasting has in it for their for the health of the gut microbiome yeah the gut microbiome is having a moment I would say the amount of experts I've interviewed on the podcast in the last couple months has really exploded so we're talking about this very delicate ecosystem in our colon so the large intestine so when we eat goes into esophagus into our stomach goes into the small intestine then ultimately large intestine and different parts of the colon have an anerobic environment which means there's oxygen or there's an aerobic sorry aerobic environment where there's oxygen an aerobic environment where there lacks oxygen and that's done specifically because of Keystone different types of keystones bacteria so as an example acrania is a keystone bacteria very important for many things in the body including the production of mucus it's invol in gp1 so for anyone's heard of seml and wovi we make our own endogenous glp1 in the body and it's intricately involved in that well as well as creating things like short Change fatty acids like butyrate things probably your your listeners are familiar with so when I think about the gut microbiome it is impacted by so many things our stress levels our Sleep Quality um are we is our circadian rhythm disrupted like are we doing uh do we have jet lag are we traveling like you're in another continent if I were to travel to where you are right now you better believe my gut microbiome is going to change in response to changes in my circadian biology it's also impacted by what we eat it is also impacted by how frequently we eat and so when I think about a lot of the benefits of fasting it's the benefits that are conferred to our digestive system but also understanding that you know wherever we are in terms of our gut microbiome and you can do testing to look at this so you know this is not contrived uh we actually look at stool samples to be able to tell like do we have plenty of beneficial bacteria or do we have a lot of opportunistic bacteria that make us more susceptible to certain types of infections or imbalances in the microbiome but we know that the food that we consume can feed the bacteria but there are prebiotics like things like asparagus and onions there are postbiotics you know things that are designed to be able to help the health of the gut microboom and then we have probiotics so organisms like fermented foods um a lot of people talk about supplements as they pertain to this but for the purposes of our conversation I'll Focus solely on food but understanding all of these foods provide information to the terrain of that gut microbiome and I know that depending on someone's traditional philosophy towards food there'll be various opinions on this I know that for myself I say this clinically myself and then professionally uh when I was hospitalized five years ago for 13 days my entire gut microbiome just got profoundly disrupted because of how sick I was and six weeks of antibiotics and antifungals and a hospitalization and a surgery and a whole bunch of other things and it has probably taken me five years to get back to a baseline of where I was before so you know depending on where you are if you were to get stool testing done and and you and your practitioner look at your stool and decide that there are things you need to work on it's always on this trajectory of you know you can be on antibiotics and yes that's going to disrupt things to a point but there are things that you can do to counteract the effects of antibiotics antifungals chronic stress sleep deprivation but I think I would be remiss if I didn't talk about the fact that our lifestyle plays such a huge role in the health of our bodies and anyone that thinks otherwise is really foolish I would say the other thing is when women go through menopause and men go through andropause there are changes to the terrain of the the microbiome the entire digestive tract is a byproduct of changes in estradi which is the predominant form of estrogen as well as other changes that go on I'm more familiarized with women because that's who I work with but helping people understand there's always something you can do and I think for everyone that's listening whether it's meal frequency whether it is the foods we choose to eat whether it's how we manage our stress and for many of us our stress shows up in our digestive system whether it's diarrhea constipation bloating gas Etc things that we just take as normal don't have to be our normal so getting back to your original question I think the gut microbiome is really important I think over the last five to 10 years we've learned a lot there's not enough research it's ongoing and certainly when I talk to The Experts the things that I think make the biggest difference in the health of our gut microbiome the intermittent fasting or meal frequency the quality of the foods we eat how we manage our stress how much we sleep and yes you do get a change in the terrain in your gut microbiome when you travel so I'm getting ready to take a trip with my family in a couple weeks and I know that jet lag is definitely going to play a role in what's going on in my gut microbiome but I know what I need to be doing to help counteract that so it's interesting the fasting it has so many health benefits I wanted to touch on the one last thing before we go into these fasting schedules which I think people just dying to hear so calories in calories out I see this so much that people just want to fast but they're just undereating calories so I really wanted to ask you for weight loss or even healing inflammation does calories in calories out matter this is such an important question because I'm not suggesting the calories don't matter because if you were to say to me Cynthia I'm I allow myself 1,500 calories a day and 30300 of which are going to come from a carton of ice cream is very different than having a nutrient-dense diet let's say you have steak and maybe a vegetable and you have two or three meals during the course of your day that information that your body takes in from Whole nutrient-dense Foods is very different than when you take in a highly processed yet delicious um high in sugar high in fat dairy uh you know delicacy I'll just say a delicacy because in my house ice cream is King my my sons and my husband it's like they're Kryptonite but when people take the concept of calories which is a which is a a unit of measurement and they try to reduce it and Whittle it down like a lot of the Bro Science guys no offense guys but that's typically where I see it they'll just say you know it's a 25-year-old who's super fit and ripped and he's like oh the way you lose weight is you just restrict your calories there's so much more to it it takes out the impact of hormones and how hormones are regulated I would be the first person say any woman who's listening knows that there are times in your menstrual cycle when it is a whole lot easier to lose weight than others if you're a woman in perimenopause or menopause all of you know that it is far more sophisticated than just calories and calories out so I think that calories matter that's always the message I send but it is far more important what we're eating and when we're eating that'll help regulate whether or not we're able to lose weight as an example if you look at the research if you're eating within two hours of bedtime that's not going to just disrupt your sleep regulation because you'll suppress excuse me melatonin and increased cortisol but it also can lead to you know your your heart rate gets elevated your body temperature is probably elevated while your body's trying to process this Bolis of food before bed as opposed to knowing that we are more insulin sensitive earlier in the day and my first meal of the day is usually my biggest I also know I'm more insulin sensitive I probably have extra exercise before I ate my meal my first meal of the day and for me I do best eating you know I I stop eating by 5 o'clock at night now that's not what happens when I do things socially but I live in a house of teenagers and a very flexible husband and as the teenagers are in and out it allows me to have a little bit more flexibility it was the blessing of the pandemic that I realized I don't like eating dinner at 7 or 8 o'clock at night I just don't feel good so for everyone that's watching there is more to it than calories calories are a unit of measurement and if it were just about calories every person listening who's ever been weight loss resistant wouldn't have been weight loss resistant because if it were just that easy all of us could drop weight there is so much more to it and it's not just the hormonal imbalances it's also toxins were exposed to microplastics um this is not woowoo there's actual science and research being done in these areas whether it's personal care products what we're exposed to our environment or food microplastics and in itself is a huge problem which can disregulated not only estrogen but can also impact testosterone quite significantly the the number one and two reasons why we're dealing with low testosterone in men number one is insulin resistance number two is toxins and this is again research based evidence-based it is not just you know why we're seeing all these infertility challenges it is really our reality so helping people understand that if you're abiding by the EO you know the calories in calories out you're missing out on other opportunities to consider why people are dealing with weight loss resistance or struggling to lose weight I want to hear from you Cynthia because you fasted so your last meal is at 5 o' me too I love that earlier dinner how has fasting changed your life you know I came to fasting like everyone else I know does I was in my early 40s I was I had a husband who did a lot of international travel at the time my boys were very young uh which meant I was you know carpooling to sports and doing I was just exhausted and I had a very stressful job working for a very large cardiology practice and I was probably exercising too intensely for that stage of my life and I probably was too low carb and I can retrospectively look back and say there's probably a lot of things that just kept adding stress to my plate add in per menopause which is when many women will start saying like everything that I used to work doesn't work anymore so I came to intermittent fasting under that guys and I didn't initially lose weight I actually came to fasting and realized like I feel so mentally clear I can round on patience from 700 a.m. in the morning until 12 o'l and then I'm like oh I'm hungry I'm going to eat then so for me it was very life-altering in terms of reduction and bloating I felt much more mentally clear and then over time the weight loss Came As I understood what was actually going on in my body in early Parry menopause but I think for a lot of individuals uh they come to it out of a curiosity but they stay for all the other benefits and certainly that's been my trajectory and I I think it's important to say that fasting has a season and a reason so there have been times over the last you know 10 years when I have not fasted and and we can talk about that but I think for a lot of individuals I think what's so important about fasting is it's flexible so you don't have to be rigid there's a lot of people who like rigidity in their lives I don't encourage anyone to be super rigid about fasting like as an example today I went to the gym it second day this week I lifted weights for my legs when I came home I was like ready to eat so I actually had something very small um I'll eat a bigger meal after we're done having our conversation but I think it's super helpful for people to understand that depending on you know where you are in your menstrual cycle depending on you know how how heavy you lifted in the gym I don't believe in in in stressing my body more than it needs to be stressed and I think we have people that like to White Knuckle fasting like they're miserable while doing and they'll push themselves anyway and so that's not the way to fast I think fasting is designed to be able to be integrated into your lifestyle there's a time to fast there's a time not to fast um my husband fasts and really enjoys it my teenagers do not fast I get asked that question all the time they're still growing I mean they're 18 and 16 but they're you know very athletic lean boys I would never encourage them to fast they're still developing they're not done developing and so I I think on a lot of different levels the desire to fast comes out of a curiosity to lose weight and then people end up staying for all the other benefits because they're like now I recognize what true insic hunger feels like I have less bloating uh my bowel movements are more regular I'm sleeping better how many middle-aged women don't sleep well and then they start fasting and all of a sudden their sleep improves and so I think that it really comes down to what are your goals uh where are you life stage because a woman that's under 35 is different than a woman that's imper menopause versus menopause and men have it so much easier because they don't have as much hormonal fluctuation but I think it's looking at where are you life stage wise you know are you male or female I think all those things matter and then obviously what are your goals like I will say that I meet a lot of very young women like let's say they're 30 they're lean they exercise a lot they have no business fasting every single day I think fasting in a certain part of their cycle maybe every couple of days once or twice twice a week there's lots of benefits but I don't like to see young lean athletic women doing a lot of fasting because you know our bodies are just exquisitly designed to um nutrients and how we nourish our bodies and if you're even if you're choosing not to have children at that point in your life your body is paying attention to how you're nourishing your body or not and so that over restriction over fasting peace I see a lot of young women doing and that's always a cause for concern because many people may not me thinking about their fertility until they're you know in a relationship with someone special or they're ready to start having children and they don't even realize that they've been chronically under nourishing their body which has impacted their fertility quite significantly I'm mindful um depending on who's watching and their thoughts about fasting fasting is fantastic and it works so well for you it works well for me in a you know easier window not too hard but I want to touch upon your story where fasting didn't work for you and could have been quite detrimental could you elaborate more on that yeah so in 2019 so 5 years ago I uh spent 13 days in the hospital I ruptured appendix and a whole slew of complications in fact it became a running joke with all the Specialists that were seeing me of course this would only happen to a healthc care provider because this wouldn't happen to the average person but in 13 days I lost 15 pounds I went home with a drain I officia that developed between my seeum which is part of the colon and my appendix which was still ured I was too sick to take to surgery I went home with a central line because I was getting IV antibiotics and I was so incredibly weak and I I literally could not tolerate much of anything my mom my Italian mom was home so she made bone broth and stewed meats and that's all I tolerated for nine months I'm not kidding and so for me I I realized pretty quickly after being discharged that I was in no position to not be eating regularly because my body was so deconditioned and so I was sharing with you before we started recording that I went to the hospital one day to see if they could pull the strain out and just walking from the car which was my mom dropped me off at the entrance of where I was to the Radiology Suite which was not very far I was so deconditioned I could tell my blood sugar was very low I felt terrible and so I did not intermittent fast for probably four to five months after that hospitalization because I was in no position to put my body under that amount of stress because we have to understand that intermittent fasting is a form of hormetic stress beneficial stress in the right amount at the right time and so for me it was really understanding that there's a a season and a reason for fasting and that was the season of me taking a break and quite honestly it was really interesting to see like how do I do having at that time I had to do four to five small meals a day because my stomach I mean my entire digestive system had really taken a huge hit and so for me it was smaller meal more frequently it kept my blood sugar stable and then I was able to get to a point a couple months later where I was able to space out meals and I did much better but I think it's important for me to disclose this because there's a time and a place to fast and that was not the time and not the place for me to engage in fasting and I would be irresponsible if I had forced myself to do that that's again I go back to do not White Knuckle fasting if it's not working for you it might be there's a certain time in your life or maybe it's where you want in your cycle or there's too much stress and so for me my body was under a tremendous amount of stress having not died in the hospital because I came quite close um and I don't say that lightly I I think I'm in a good place mentally now but I realized how sick I was and so for me part of my recovery was learning to eat more frequently smaller meals and just allow my body to heal intrinsically I think it's so important to know what's working for you at that time and be open-minded not to just just have one fasting schedule doing the same thing over and over and over and just stressing your body out that goes very nicely into how to start fasting for people that are just wondering well Cynthia how do I start I want to get to your results or I want to do an omad we shouldn't be just doing an omad but let's just for the absolute beginner that's just like where do I start what is the most gentle starting point to start fasting yeah I would say the first thing is to stop snacking because snacking in between meals is a sign that you're not put put your meals together properly so we're going to look at a macro level snacking is not necessary no one should be snacking I mean if you're a 5-year-old kid and you don't know enough to sit down and eat enough at a meal and you get hungry two hours later that's very different but as an adult no one should be snacking so we remove the Band-Aid of snacking it forces you to structure your meals with enough protein if you tolerate vegetables great and whatever the carbohydrate comes from it could be that you have non-starch vegetables if you tolerate those you know the next thing to think about is not eating after dinner so you have maybe you're having three meals you've taken out the snacks you don't eat from after dinner until breakfast the following morning and and I want everyone to think about breaking your fast is breakfast so I break my fast at 10 o'clock in the morning it doesn't have to be breakfast food it could be leftover from the night before that's actually how I like to do it and so really opening up that episode of digestive rest if you will I think 12 hours of digestive rest is exactly that it still has benefits slowly opening up that window for some people they can do it pretty readily and quickly they can go from 12 hours to 14 to 16 hours pretty easily I think a lot of it depends on how metabolically healthy you are so if you have been a sedentary Couch Potato eating an ultra processed food diet it's going to take you longer um it's going to take you longer especially if you're insulin resistant or you're even diabetic and if you're diabetic or if you have chronic health issues make sure you talk to your health care provider before you start doing that because you may need alterations in your medications so we're going from you know 12 hours of digestive rest to 12 and a half to 13 and slowly people will make their way it's important understand it's important to hydrate your body it's important to utilize electrolytes especially if you are going lower carbohydrate or low carb or even ketogenic you will get renal losses of electrolytes especially sodium and a lot of the effects that people will experience headaches nausea achy are a byproduct of this loss of electrolytes so store glycogen as your body is emptying up the stored glycogen you're losing not just sodium you can use potassium magnesium chloride this can precipitate some of these symptoms that I was talking about and so that's how people start and it's water and electrolytes and then bitter coffee bitter tea everyone freaks out they're like I love all the cream and the sugar in my coffee well you know it's interesting uh I just interviewed Dr William Lee he was talking about if you put cream in your tea as an example your body will like kind of wall off the polyphenol so a lot of these plant-based compounds that you get benefits from bitter is information for our bodies we know bitter teas like green tea black tea actually can boost fat oxidation so for those of you that are like yes on the fat loss piece bitter coffee you can add things like high quality salt like Redmonds or you can add cinnamon that will not break a clean fast but it can change and alter the flavor profile I personally can't stand the taste of coffee I never have so I drink tea and the way that I learned how to drink green tea was I brew it I ice it and I put a straw on it that's how I work I like I generally like bitter plant-based compounds but I don't love tea but I like tea I enjoy tea because there are health benefit so that's typically how we kind of work our ways through and the next question is usually what do iing break my fast with protein always the answer is protein you want to stabilize your blood sugar you don't want to sit down and eat a plate of potato chips or ice cream or have a piece of pie or one of those protein bars I mentioned that taste more like a candy bar I get it they're yummy but that's not going to set you up and if you look at the research on the first meal of the day the most important thing you want to do is stabilize that blood sugar because if you do that you are less likely to eat for hedonistic reasons you're more likely to eat because you're truly intrinsically hunger so I usually will say have some steak have some chicken have a piece of fish um if you like salad or you like vegetables have those with it you want either protein and a healthy fat and if you have a riye that satisfies both or if you have like Duck or you want some salmon or you have protein and some carbohydrate now again um I'm the first person to say like I like carbs but I like my carbs from vegetables that's generally where I like to get my carbohydrates from and I'm of a certain age where I have to be more mindful of my carbohydrates so if you're a woman in per menopause or menopause you may notice that your carbohydrate threshold is changing as your insulin sensitivity is changing so those are some of my best tips I think it's just as important what we break our fast with as it is important to understand we want to clean fast we don't want to fudge it like there's a lot of people that love to talk about um you know like coffee bombs or fatty coffees or Bulletproof Coffee and some of those those drinks can be 400 to 500 calories and if someone's weight loss resistant is that really where I'd rather get it from real food but if you are that standard American diet Couch Potato sedentary really struggling to get to 14 15 hours then maybe adding a little butter or a little bit of MCT oil which is generally my personal favorite adding some MCT oil will get you a little bit of um a little bit of expansion in that fasting window but understanding we don't want to be in a position where we're getting 500 400 calories from a coffee drink like that you know if you just don't want to eat that's a that's a whole separate conversation but I think a lot of people assume if you're drinking your calories they don't count and this is something that I think people have to really investigate like I I love Dave aspey I've met him many times I've been a guest on his podcast but I always look at Dave and I'm like I would rather just have the the green tea and then later on you know get that chloric intake from something else I'd enjoy more like half a stick of butter and half a cup of cream like that does not appeal to me that would not do well in my digestive system but I'm sure there are probably some of you that are like hey I really enjoy having a bulletproof coffee every once in a while that's different but if you're doing it every day and you're weight loss resistant that's a really easy way to remain weight loss resistant so starting off the gentle which is a 12 hours of fasting even 12 to 14 hours of fasting would you call that Tim restricted feeding yeah I mean I I I I do think about it that way and and I think that Tim restricted eating is just this prescribed time period in which you're not eating and I know sat and Panda has done a lot of research in this area and so I think it's semantics when we're talking about this you know to me whether it's Tim restricted feeding or intermittent fasting it's the same in my mind the same prevailing philosophy and for everyone that's listening you may do really well at 14 or 15 hours and doing a longer fast does not appeal to you you're not interested in it and that is okay and then I meet people that they want to go 18 20 22 hours every day and I'm like well it's kind of hard to get all your food in in one meal that's what we're going to talk about some mistakes so 12 to 14 hours is very good for fat loss uh what about if you want the autophagy fasting can you also explain what autophagy fasting is yeah so it's interesting so autophagy is this waste and recycling process in the body you'll see some people talk about autophagy fasting and when what they're doing is they have a very protein restricted food intake and they will increase their healthy fats with the thought process that in a low protein State you'll have an upregulation and autophagy um this isn't something that I do with any regularity because I'm of a certain age where protein is King and I like to maintain and build muscle um and so there's there's prevailing principles there are the people the long it experts and then people that are more in the carnivore muscle protein synthesis crowd and that's kind of where I I exist um and to be completely Fair most the longevity experts look very sarcopenic and they're very skinny and and this is not a criticism it's just observation and then I look at my friends in the muscle protein synthesis carnivore is crowd and they look very different and that looks healthy to me whereas a lot of longevity experts just do not look particularly healthy and I think at some point you have to decide for yourself like what is most important for me I'm on I'm I'm with the carnivore is group so when we're talking about autophagy fasting helping people understand that in this low protein State we have this upregulation of autophagy it's not something I do with any regularity I do think autophagy is important I think it's important whether it's mitophagy autophagy helping people understand the role in the aging process the role in most chronic disease States you know after the age of 40 most everything that you see is uh a a byproduct of disregulated autophagy or a reduction it's one of the Hallmarks of Aging even it's something that is very very helpful for people to understand like we want to do the things that allow us to live our best lives and to have as much energy as possible to sleep well to exercise Etc um I think this is a strategy one you know subset of of intermittent fasting but it's not something that I do ever um I do talk about it in in a program that I run but it's not something that I do with any frequency uh again because I go back to I want to maintain and build muscle and so a low protein State I've been there five years ago I was there and I know what it's like when your body breaks down muscle to survive and so muscle is this organ of longevity that I'm just not willing to negatively impact how does somebody choose their period of fasting because you've got the 12 hours okay or 14 hours then you've got 168 186 20 and 4 and what I mean by 20 and four Etc is 20 hours of fasting 4H hour uh feeding window so how would or even an OM 23 in1 how does somebody choose what they want to do and what's best for them well I think it depends on your goals um most of the people I interact with want to build and maintain muscle so that is going to have a different set of prevailing philosophies so number one no less than 100 grams of protein a day no less than 30 grams of protein per meal i. e 50 to 60 per meal just for me I get about 110 120 grams of protein in a day and that's how I do it in two meals so when you look at people that have wide feeding windows it's probably fairly easy to get 30 grams per meal at least 100 grams per day as you start closing that feeding window it gets harder and harder and harder I don't know any women that can eat nutrient-dense foods of 100 grams of protein in one meal I know plenty of men that can do that and there's there's research to now demonstrate that you know we can eat upwards of a 100 grams in a meal and our body knows what to do with it so there there are sometimes people that will say oh if we eat more than 30 grams our body stores it as fat no that's actually not what happens especially with protein but I do think it's important for people to consider are you a north of 40 where we know sarcopenia or muscle loss with aging accelerates if you are not actively working against it that's why strength training and adequate protein is so important important and why is the 30 grams of protein important because that's the that's the amount that helps trigger muscle protein synthesis and it hits a Lucine threshold and Lucine is an amino acid very very important to hit those thresholds to help stimulate muscle you want to do you that that's I think that's the prevailing Focus for most of the work that I do so when someone says to me I do omad and they're a woman or they have a 20 20-hour fast with a 4-Hour feeding window the first thing I ask them is how much protein you eating every day because more often than not they're chronically undereating protein and by that if I look at a diet recall of women like that they're probably getting 40 50 grams of protein and I remind them that and I'm a visual person so I always use this as an example young muscle looks like a fillet old muscle although delicious looks like a ribeye and those the marbling that goes on in a ribey is a byproduct of this you know inflammatory process I know fat is delicious and my husband and my younger son would say the riy is better my older son and I would say the fle is better we just like leaner meat my husband and younger son like fattier meat but what's going on in our muscles this is where we lose insulin sensitivity first very important for people to understand this so insulin resistance starts in our muscles so if you have no other takeaway from this conversation it's track your Macros figure out how much protein you're eating every day to help offset what's happening as we're getting older so sarcopenia will happen if you don't work against it that's why the strength training and adequate protein is so important and Stress Management and sleep and all that but for a lot of individuals when they start tracking their macros they realize oh I can't get enough protein in one meal I can't get it in two meals and that's okay you know I have some women that do two big meal two good siiz meals and then they have a whey protein shake and if you tolerate Dairy I think that's totally fine just find the cleanest option that works for you but I think in a lot of different levels there's this lack of awareness we've been conditioned to believe that meat is detrimental red meat is bad for you red meat raises cholesterol uh high cholesterol is the basis for heart disease that's completely been disproven and I think for everyone listening it's it's like figure out what makes your body feel good for me personally I do really well with lean meat lean protein lean fish lean poultry that's works well for me I love eggs I'll eat ground bison I love all these things and then I have other people that love fatty meat and that works really well for their body so figuring out what works well for you but being cognizant of where's your protein intake because if you were chronically undereating protein you're going to spin down the the muscle that you have on your body and you know bioimpedance scales bod pod that's usually what I like to use um they have a much more accurate reflection than standing on a stand standard scale which just tells you what you weigh it doesn't tell you how much muscle mass to body fat that you have but I think most of us have a good sense of where our body fat is to muscle ratio um a lot of people start getting less hungry in their 40s um that's certainly been something that I've seen as a middle-aged woman so you know when my appetite goes back up I usually know that I'm I'm creating and and fostering more muscle development so just as an aside your fasting and feeding schedule should correspond with how much protein you need so if you are ideally 150 pounds uh of a woman or a male that's what you want to be working for as it may not happen overnight but over time that's what you want to work towards so when it comes to choosing your fasting window I like to give a general advice to people what would be the ideal fasting protocol for somebody that just wants to start I've heard 168 is very popular I I think a 168 is is a reasonable option because it still gives you eight hours to eat it's not too long of a fast and I think for a lot of people they can work their way up to it and they kind of feel like okay I can do the 16 hours I feel really good if I decide to do a 17 I'll see how I feel maybe that's too long um but what I like about a 16 is that it gives someone you know four hours in between meals and that's really important so that's a good starting point obviously there's different types of fasts or different types of goals if someone as an example excuse me if someone as an example is insulin resistant has a lot of weight to lose maybe they're diabetic they have lots of stored fuel right they have lots of stored fuel so they could go two to three days without consuming food and for a lot of people that helps them get out of plateaus it helps them kind of do a jump start I've had a lot of obese patients tell me that a two to three day fast which obviously they would do in conjunction with their health care professional especially if they're on medications it helps them like reset their palette they're like okay I've been craving junk food I would say after Christmas after the holidays a lot lot of people are craving junk and crap and they'll do a two to three day fast the first couple days of the year and they're like okay now I'm ready to get back on track so there is a purpose for longer fast but it really depends on your goals like another example is you know doing a three to 5 day fast where you know you can impact telome length and Stem Cell Activation and all these other benefits but I can honestly tell you that since my hospitalization five years ago I don't do long fast anymore I feel like I've done I did a 13 fast I have no desire to ever do another 13-day fast or a long fast I think a lot of it depends on your goals and for me it's reflecting back on that muscle preservation muscle mass building muscle mass maintaining it and when you start getting over 24 hours even if you're a lean person it's really this cost benefit like I I actually will talk to Dr Ted NE uh again next week and this is something he talks about we're about the same age and you we're both very lean and I'm like I don't want want to lose what muscle mass I have and so for me anything more than 24 hours just doesn't make sense but for someone who is a different stage of life or is insulin resistant or has a lot of weight to lose that might be a good way to kind of jump start or break through some plateaus so I want to get into something very interesting which is things that affect your fast because people have this question my first one is Stevia and artificial sweetness what are your thoughts well I think this depends so I'll go back and say the same thing if you are weight loss resistant or obese or you're dealing with a lot of sugar Cravings I think whether it's Stevia monk fruit sucrose aspartame and and I'll explain in a second why I don't put those all in the same boat but if you have a sugar handling problem artificial or cleaner uh sugar options are not necessarily beneficial now people will argue till the cows come home Stevia doesn't impact my blood glucose well I bet you it impacts your insulin because it's sweet on the tongue there's something called the calop phase insulin response if I put something sweet on my tongue you better believe my food my body thinks food is coming and so I always say that if you are thin and you're at your gold weight I don't think having a stb as sweet and bever is going to make a difference but since we know so many of us are not metabolically healthy that can make a difference now if you look at the research on and there was a research study that was done I think in September of 2022 in nature talking about sucrose aspartame Stevia and I think sacaron and it made me laugh I was like who still uses sacran I don't I think I think about that from my grandmother used to drink tab like a thousand years ago and so it was looking at the impact of those on oral glucose tolerance which is important and then they looked at the impact on the gut microbiome and so not surprisingly sucrose aspartam had the greatest net impact and then Stevia a little less but I think it's important for us to understand like these artificial sugars and by that I mean sacarin sucrose aspartame are very different to me than like Stevia monk fruit a thyrol I mean if you have a sugar handling problem you have a sugar handling problem you should probably avoid all of those but with that being said I think when you look at the research and and some of this was done I believe on mice so they're mice Mo they're a mouse model it's not a human but understanding that in one month's time or I think it was 28 days the sucrose the astine the sacr the stevia all had a negative impact on oral glucose tolerance they also had a negative impact on the gut microbiome and we've talked about the gut microbiome and how important it is uh and that's in the coal in the large intestine and so I just I I go back to most of us are so conditioned for sweetness we're always looking for another fix we're just a bunch of sugar junkies and so I I always reflect on what is your relationship with sugar number one number two are you just looking for a solution to a problem you know are you using stabia because you really do have a sugar problem you you you're a sugar addict or you're someone that's always looking for something that's sweet I I tend to be a salt person like I'm like anything I can put anything that's a conduit to Salt I'm like oh that's why I love electrolytes and my drinks and I I like salt probably way more than the average person but when we look at Stevia as an example there is you know people have glucometers and cgms and they'll say well I didn't see anything changed people love to argue with me on social media all the time and my team and I kind of laugh at this I'm like yes but there's something called the calic phase insulin response and that's what I think you need to think about if you think that you have a disordered relationship with sugar you probably need to limit it or eliminate it and I always say if you can't moderate you eliminate I don't think I have a problem per se with stevia so if I have Stevia sweetened chocolate like Lily's brand as an example I can moderate it but there are other things I don't moderate as well and so I just don't have them but I think it's important for people to just be honest with themselves and say you know maybe I have an unhealthy relationship with sugar and maybe I need to work on that and you know there's a a program that we run a couple times a year that is essentially like a a sugar-free diet for 28 days oh my gosh the sugar detoxing that goes on is unbelievable and I always say to people like use this as a litmus test for the fact that for so many of us we think of sugar being benign and innocuous but it's in everything it's in condem it's in ketchup it's in mustard I think one of my kids was saying the other day there was they're now adding sugar to Salt so that people want more of it and it's just it's a disturbing Trend so you know eat less processed be conscientious and honest with yourself and if you have to add Stevia to everything in an effort to consume something that might be a sign like if you have to sweeten up your your tea and your coffee all the time that's a sign that you know you may you may be uh you may be a sugar addict and you're just not real Iz in it the word sugar addict is very controversial so it's not saying that Stevia is bad have it if you need to but it's just to open the mind up to say okay is it affecting your body is it causing the calic insulin response just be mindful of that the next thing is you mentioned Bulletproof Coffee obviously if you had 400 calories in the morning that's going to affect your fasting results but what if you add a tablespoon of heavy cream or a tablespoon of butter you know 100 calories 50 calories does that affect your fast you know this is this is when we start to split hair so I would say you know based on my research a tablespoon of mct2 oil is going to be processed differently than having butter or cream those are insulinemic so they will evoke an an insulin response but again I go back to are you thin are you at a healthy weight it's not going to make a big deal but you know if we're really going to split hairs like I occasionally use lemon in my water but I am during my fast but I am am a healthy weight I'm insulin sensitive it's not going to make a difference but if I were obese and not at a healthy weight and really struggling with weight loss resistance those kinds of habits can make a difference and so I invite everyone just to have an honest conversation with themselves to say does this habit serve me well without judgment like to me I'm like when people ask does a break a fast and I say yes this does or no this doesn't I'm like listen there's no judgment if you still decide to do that do understanding what know the potential exists that if you're struggling to be to lose weight that could that be like as an example I have a lot of women who they love element and so they want to use element 247 and I'm like that's great you're getting your electrolytes but do you have a sugar handling problem are you a sugar addict um are you is this what's hindering you know because still you can make the argument if you're drinking this copiously throughout the day could this be you know in between you're eating could this be crazy creting a problem for yourself and so just inviting people to consider that some of our habits may not serve us well now again I go back to are you insulin sensitive are you metabolically healthy are you at your goal weight do you feel like you're at a healthy weight you probably have a little bit of leeway around some of those things without stressing about it and if you were to say to me like my greatest joy in life is having a coffee with heavy with a tablespoon of heavy cream I would say enjoy it and like don't stress about it like I think we stress about these things so much much like the questions that I get in some of my groups I'm like holy cow like there's a lot of stress going on with this so like let's think big like let's think at a macro level like how is this impacting our health and then decide like is this worth getting upset about or is this something like maybe this is contributing to some of the problems I'm seeing like maybe I should cut it out and see what happens what about alcohol in your feeding window is that going to affect your fasting window results it could I mean so if we understand that there's now a lot of emerging research coming out that alcohol really doesn't have any health benefits our body prioritizes it as a toxin if we are eating while we're drinking a glass of alcohol whether it's a mortini or we're having a glass of wine I always think about big picture um certainly people in middle age who already are dealing with some sleep disruptions who may be insulin less insulin sensitive that glass of wine could turn into a pooright sleep which we know impacts leptin grin glucose insulin and food choices made this the next day it's always in the context of does it serve me I have never had a problem with alcohol for full disclosure I'll just use myself as the example in my 20s and 30s I learned to drink dirty martinis I would have one I would sip on it maybe once a week always socially and during the pandemic I just stopped drinking and I thought to myself oh my gosh my sleep is so much better one drink a week and so understanding that we we are in a culture where alcohol is not looked upon the same way that other types of drugs are and so there there's very much a mommy drinking culture I'm going to just State this for the obvious and so I think a lot of people just don't even realize that their relationship with alcohol may be impacting their goals that they have for their your s maybe it's impacting your sleep maybe you are weight loss resistant maybe it's causing you to eat Foods you wouldn't otherwise eat because it's disregulated your blood sugar or you know maybe this is the reason why you're you know chronically inflamed or you know worse than that it's understanding the net impact on a lot of other things in our lives so this is not stated pejoratively but we've been conditioned to believe that alcohol has a lot of health benefits and I think the emerging research is suggesting otherwise so if you're going to drink I would I would look at biodynamic or organic wines I would stick with clear Liquors you know like JY vodka tequila although for those of us that have maybe over the course of your lifetime have had a bad night with tequila I'm like I can't even smell it it still gives that Pavlov's dog but understanding there are better choices so always that good better best and I I think that you can exist as an adult and not drink if that's your choice um but just understanding how it can set things up and for me my sleep is too precious to drink alcohol so it I gave it up four years ago and I haven't looked back but the 's been a lot of pressure just socially when I go out it makes other people uncomfortable and I don't make it an issue I'm like I show up with my kombucha or my sparkling water and a lime no one knows the difference but it makes people very uncomfortable the last thing I want to ask you is mistakes because you probably have seen a lot of things that could affect people's fasting what would be the top three mistakes that you would say people make when they start fasting or do fasting yeah I would say number one forcing a fast so this is in the context of there's a time in a women's menstrual cycle and I talk a lot about this in the book of when we can get away with fasting versus times when we should reduce the amount of fasting that we're doing or really just do a 12-hour digestive rest so that's number one not observing where you are in your cycle or contrary to that per menopause or menopause and women forcing a fast when they have like too much stress they had terrible sleep um they're going through a divorce they lost their job there's just a lot of stress it's like adding gasoline to a fire I would say number two not understanding how to fuel their body so it goes back to the macros not enough protein too many carbs the carbs are a huge issue I don't see fat being an issue I think my generation your generation probably aren't fat phobic like my mother's generation is still completely fat phobic like trying to encourage my mom to have more than like a quarter of an avocado is still an issue um but I do think the macros piece like what you break your fast with matters how you f your body and your feeding window matters and then I would say lastly I I think it's this prevailing philosophy I call it the Triad of over fasting over restriction overe exercising like women get into this trap and I I do see it with men but not as significantly women are just hard on themselves um women become weight loss resistant for a multiplicity of reasons um and then they find that uh they're like if a little bit of fasting works the more is better if a little bit of what you can insert carbohydrate restriction fat restriction whatever it is they do more restrictions so they're under nourishing their bodies they're they're have a very very tight feeding window they're really under nourishing and then they overe exercise and so those are the things that I get the most concerned about and to be totally transparent number three has become such a huge issue that I'm starting to speak out more about it because there's a lot of disordered relationships with food it's not just unique to the fasting Community but there's a lot of that on social media whether it's orthorexia whether it's anorexia that people hide they hide that in their intermittent F intermittent fasting they're really just not eating and so for me I just feel like as a woman as a clinici I have to just be transparent and say this is why I've started speaking about this more often because I see a lot of troubling patterns and a lot of troubling messaging that goes on and that's why I I think I I owe it as a as a woman um you know I I've been in this intermittent fasting Community for such a long period of time that I more often than not have women stop fasting because they're doing too much or I have them stop fasting because they don't have a healthy relationship with their bodies and with food and so we have to kind of work on that first so those are the the three most common things that I see um I'm curious to know if that's what you expected me to say or or or were you thinking I was going to say something else that was what I was expecting that overdoing it um what I was also I actually wrote down was vegan diets doing fasting with a vegan diet that because of the the protein emphasis um and protein is so important and fasting is very important for the right reason and it's the extremes it's you don't want to eat the whole day and you don't want to have be snacking because you want to have that rest and digest process if you're eating a vegan diet plus fasting how on Earth are you getting your nutrients I'm not against veganism well I'm the opposite of vegan but I don't get vegan with fasting well we we so number one my mom was a vegan for over 10 years and like watching my mom her health spiral and then trying to help her get back to um a healthy eating pattern and have more animal based be more of an omniore which she loves vegetables so like that's that's her happy place but to Echo your sentiments you know when a a woman who's choosing to be vegetarian or vegan and I respect that comes through our programs and we're trying to talk to them about higher protein and they're trying to get it from first of all we always ask like do you do dairy and eggs if they do I'm like okay we can work with this but if they don't it is really challenging because most of the vegetarian protein sources are either soy which I'm not a huge fan of or the amount of carbohydrate to protein is so disparaging like you know six cups of quinoa to 6 ounces of steak it's like I don't know many middle-aged women that can tolerate that carbohydrate load like they just can't um and so I I typically will say 30 grams of carbs in a meal Max and you know 50 to 60 grams of protein and so that really becomes problematic and I would say this is not coming from a place of judgment it's just I'm trying to figure out how to support your nutritional philosophies but also help educate you as to why maybe we need to bring some eggs into your diet maybe we need to bring some Dairy into your diet so we can backfill and I don't don't think a lot of vegetarians and vegans get into trouble until middle age I think there's a lot of shaming about eating meat which I think is is unfortunate certainly not in my community not in the the the the realm of the Health and Wellness Community that I'm in because a lot of almost all of us are at least omnivores if if not carnivore is or carnivore and I I think that there's still a lot of shaming e and ethical considerations that people will spout out about eating animals like if I want to throw a grenade on Twitter I will talk about veganism that is when I get so much hate and and we try very hard to navigate not being particularly inflammatory on social media but if I want to anger a bunch of people I will talk about veganism on Twitter even if I do it respectfully I mean the amount of of trolls and nastiness that comes out it's like swatting flies because they just get so triggered and yet um I think it was there's a a woman in the United States who just came out just saw it on the news this morning Wendy Williams I'm not sure if you're familiar with her she's a talk show host uh she's 59 years old and I think she's been vegan for more than five years and she now has the same form of dementia that Bruce Willis does and I'm not saying that there's a connection but I am saying you know 59 years old and being having a a diagnosis of I think it's temporal dementia frontal temporal dementia my dad has it my dad is yeah he's um he's actually in an age Care Facility 3 years after the diagnosis so frontal temporal dementia it's a debilitating disease and that's why I'm so interested in um in nutrition and health because of that very reason for Dad it was more alcohol stress not a healthy lifestyle but that's why I'm not against veganism or vegetarianism and as Dr kimberry says if you're vegan or vegetarian you're mindful of your health and maybe that is a good thing but the nutrients that you need it's just and as you said you only see this 20 years later yeah well and it's concerning I mean I so we have a whole generation of women that you know my mom's generation post women's health initiative so that was a study that was released in 2002 when I was a new nurse practitioner at that time all these women were taking off their hormone replacement therapy so what do we see now we're seeing a lot of neurocognitive effects bone health effects heart disease Etc um My Generation certainly knows better like we're we're flipping the narrative and talking about HRT and how beneficial it is to our brain our green Health cognitive Health but I think it's incredibly sad when we start to realize like whether it's toxins we're exposed to like alcohol I have a a parent my father um is an alcoholic uh and and seeing what's happening to him and his health is really concerning I think for all of us it's building awareness without judgment helping to educate people without judgment I always say listen I'm always open-minded and someone if you convince me of a different way of thinking I'm always open to it I'm not rigid but I think for so many of us it's like building that awareness of what works for our bodies what makes us feel good what allows us to sleep well engage with our loved ones because that's really what it's all about it's like you know my husband and I are both in our 50s now we're getting ready to be empty nesters in a couple years which is hard to believe and so you know from my perspective it's like we were talking about this morning I was like I don't ever want to not be able to get out and walk our dogs in the morning and exercise and do all these things that we don't think about now but I don't want to be 10 15 20 years down the road and not be able be an active contributing member of society that's that's what we want to avoid absolutely and that's why we love you and all the information that you provide and that's why fasting and health and diet is so important if people love you and want to hear more from you where can they find you thank you so probably easiest to go to my website www. Cynthia tho.com I have an amazing podcast called everyday Wellness which is truly one of my greatest joys in my business I hope you enjoyed this interview now you need to watch this video next with Professor Thomas SE freed all about how to stop cancer with diet and water fasting I'll see you guys next week