[Music] [Applause] you're now watching Around the Horn The Weekly internationalist News update with author and historian Gerald horn okay today it's October 2nd 2024 welcome everyone to the weekly series entitled Around the Horn which is an internationalist news update with Gerald horn J horn currently holds the Moors professorship of history and African-American studies at the University of Houston Gerald horn is an activist scholar researcher archist author historian attorney and much much more Dr horn has written at least 48 books Dr Horn's latest book is out and available at better bookstores and is entitled Around the Horn Panthers Communists black nationalists liberals in Southern California through the 60s and 70s Dr horn is also a permanent guest on the radio show the horn report which airs on black Power 96 Radio on Sundays at 3:30 pm. Eastern and Dr horn also hosts a radio show entitled Freedom now which airs on kpfk 90.7 FM on Saturdays at 11: a.m Pacific and replays of both shows can be found in the activist News Network Dr horn thank you for coming back on the show and welcome back to Around the Horn thank you for inviting me and let me apologize for my absence last week it was due to an airline mishap uh flight being cancel and just as a minor footnote the name of the new book is of course armed struggle Panthers and communist black nationalists and liberals in Southern California through the 60s and 70s thank you and yes the political economy of the airlines of the US is is something that we could probably spend a whole show on um but before we go around the horn I wanted to note that today October 2nd we celebrate the heroism of Nat Turner who was born on this day October 2 1800 and on August 21st 1831 the 30-year-old Nat Nathaniel Nat Turner launched one of the most historic revolts to end the enslavement of Africans in Southampton County Virginia and we must remember that like DeMark Bessie's rebellion in 182 1822 Gabriel's rebellion in 1800 and countless others the Nat Turner rebellion was inspired by events that had taken place in Revolutionary Haiti between 1791 and 1804 anyway Dr horen jumping into the questions um first we wanted to ask you about what is now a regional war in West Asia in just the past week we've seen Israel expand his genocidal War into Lebanon but not only yet another horrific and inhumane bombing campaign but also a ground invasion of Lebanon which has taken the lives of thousands of people including the assassination of hezbollah's Secretary General Assan nesa on September 28th and in response on October 1st Iran launched hundreds of missiles at Israel Dr horn it seems that not only has this conflict in West Asia devolved into a regional War but they could very well spiral into World War III at any moment what is equally concerning is that this may very well have been the intention of not just Israel but the us as well but Dr hor what is your analysis of the events of this past week in West Asia well first of all another footnote uh on Saturday on freedom now kpfk Los Angeles kpfk.org we're interviewing a scholar who has written the latest updated book about Nat Turner so for those interested uh in the words that you shared uh please tune in or tune in subsequently at the activist News Network where it will be rebroadcast now with regard to the events in West Asia you are correct to Ring the Alarm and you are also correct to suggest that this is a joint Israeli us Enterprise that is to say as the New York Times acknowledg the National Security Agency of the United States the worldwide Dragnet which notoriously bugged the mobile phone of former German Chancellor anela Merkel has been sharing intelligence with the Israeli authorities with regard to the whereabouts of VAR ious Hezbollah leaders probably Mr nazala himself we also know that with regard to the detonation of the pagers and walkie-talkies and apparently solar panels too that this may be the beginning of a new stage in Warfare uh that is to say with the development of the internet of things with thermostats and laptops and mobile phones and even aut mobiles tied to the internet you can look forward to those particular uh Commodities consumer items being turned into bombs uh in fact we've already he heard stories about hackers intercepting various automobiles that are connected to the internet and then driving the automobiles over the cliff so to speak so this is something that not only states can engage in but non-state actors likewise with regard to new stages in Warfare uh some in your audience may recall the film RoboCop well you can look forward to Robo soldiers even though putatively that's against international law but whereas international law ever stopped the Israelis or their us Masters that is to say we already have drones shooting missiles I'm sure you've seen the movies where you have Us official them uh in bunkers in Nevada shooting missiles into Afghanistan into Yemen for example and the next stage obviously or Rubble soldiers who can grab you by the Scruff of the neck and strangle you if need be uh we are familiar as well with the fact that as we speak uh the United States and Israel are planning an attack on Iran because of Iran uh apparently shooting about 180 missiles Into the Heart of Israel interestingly enough the Iranians unlike the Israelis were going after the Mad headquarters and Air Force Base Etc where the Israelis of course specialized in killing innocent civilians such as what happened when the walkie-talkies and the pagers were detonated innocent civilians were a primary victim we should expect as well in terms of this impending attack on Iran that the Israelis and their us Masters will go after Iranian oil facilities Iran will not rest recumbent as this is taking place uh this could easily spin out of control I understand that Russian officialdom is in Iran as we speak perhaps advising them them with regard to their expert anti-aircraft defenses that have performed quite adequately and well in terms of foiling the latest plans in the Ukraine war we can expect that this war will undermine the so-called reformist leadership uh in Iran uh that it might accelerate the plan of some to have a nuclear breakout which had been foiled by the painstakingly negotiated Accord The Joint comprehensive plan of action during the Obama Administration thwarted and reneged on by the Trump team and if that is going to take place that is to say a so-called nuclear breakout with regard to developing nuclear weapons you can see that as a further rationale for an Israeli us attack on the Iranian nuclear facilities which I understand are underground but then again Mr nzala was meeting underground before he and his comrades were blown up by multi-ton bombs the mother of all bombs as they're colloquially referred to in the Pentagon since the Hezbollah which has been seriously weakened uh helped to rescue neighboring Syria from the Diabolical plans of the US and Israel and so-called Sunni extremists in terms of overthrowing the al- Assad regime with the weakening of Hezbollah we can expect a renewed effort to overthrow al- Assad and of course what's Curious is that a major challenged constituency in Syria that has balah helped to rescue happened to be the Christian minority and despite the fact that so-called white Christian nationalism is a reigning philosophy that you have professed Christians occupying the highest offices in the land of the United States of America apparently the life chances of their co-religionist in Syria or being tossed aside we can also expect I'm afraid to say uh further accelerated efforts by Sunni extremist and in that regard let me point to something that was quite disturbing in the last week leader of the United Arab Emirates that particular regime if not its Nationals or known to support Sunni extremist particularly in Africa particularly in the Sahel particularly in Bina Faso and Mali and ner uh the leader of the UAE was meeting in the Oval Office with Mr Bon just a few days ago and despite all of this rhetoric we often hear about people being oh so concerned about the fate of Africa there was hardly a peep as I could ascertain with regard to this disturbing meeting likewise about a year or so ago you saw prime minister Maloney of Italy perhaps the most anti-african leader uh in the world today and that's saying something given the competition she met in the overal office with Mr Biden as well without heartly a peep obviously we have a lot of work to do and speaking of the UAA leader they have been particularly muscular in their intervention in the Sudan which has driven this nation in the heart of Africa to the brink of famine and not to mention creating thousands if not millions of refugees that are putting strains upon the economies of neighboring Chad Libya Egypt Uganda Central African Republic not to mention Ethiopia but back to Hezbollah uh and I should also mention that the progressive forces in that part of the world have charged that the UAE is under the table supporting the Israelis despite supposedly their solidarity with the Palestinians by the way we can also expect with the weakening of Hezbollah the Resurgence of these right-wing Christian militias uh the fangas the fascist some of you might recall they're running rampant and a muck in the Palestinian refugee camps some decades ago in Sabra and chatila in complicity with the Israeli authorities massacring hundreds if not thousands I happen to be in Lebanon and that part of the world and of Lebanon in in that particular stage just before or just after Sovereign this about four decades ago and the the stench of Bloodshed still hung in the air as I was departing a b root and we can expect a Resurgence of these right-wing Christian militias given the weakening of hbot just as with the weakening of Hezbollah who are heavily comprised of the Shia Muslim groupings we can expect the Shia who are The Underdogs in that part of the world to come under unremitting unrelenting pressure from Sunni extremists who see them as heretical uh that see them as not deserving uh to exist we should also recognize that one of the reasons why us imperialism is so interested uh in attacking Iran is that Per a recent bipartisan Democratic and Republican Congressional study co-chaired by Mariah sixkiller a former National Security official with Microsoft and Eric Adelman a former US ambassador to Turkey and the they not only suggested that there should be more US military spending surprise surprise uh but also they say that the United States faces a mortal danger because of a new so-called quartet or an axis of Evil to coin a phrase speaking of Iran North Korea Russia and China the attack on Iran which supplies oil to China would see would be seen as a first step towards bringing this new axes of evil to heal particularly weakening China and Russia on the eve of the brick Summit Brazil Russia India China Summit which will be unfolding uh this month October 2024 we can also expect uh more battles uh in Lebanon between Hezbollah which is yet to be liquidated fortunately and the Israeli Invaders we can also Envision that Mr Netanyahu who as we know wants to keep the pot boiling because that prevents him from serving hard time in prison that uh he is has been in a kind of tiff with the Republican nominee Donald J Trump because mentioned Netanyahu in November 2020 sent a congratulatory message to Joseph Arbon on his victory Mr Trump as you know said that the election was rigged and so Mr Netanyahu may want to make life difficult for Mr Biden and his successor speaking of VP Harris and hopefully from his point of view lubricate the path to Mr Trump returning to the White House because recall that during the ill-fated term of Mr Trump in the white house he moved the US Embassy in violation of international law into Jerusalem he helped to negotiate the so-call Abraham Accords a gift to the Israeli right which simultaneously weakened the pre-existing regime in Sudan leading to this present Civil War and we can expect more of the same I'm afraid to say assuming Mr Trump turn turns to White us and I haven't even mentioned Mr Trump uh authorizing the assassination of Mr sulamani a blatant violation of international law uh an official of the Iranian regime and obviously it's quite dangerous to go around the world assassinating leaders because what sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and Mr Trump who is faced we understand two assassination attempts in recent weeks should be particularly sensitive uh to that particular Trend I should also say that uh despite the obvious ideological weaknesses the Democratic party the Republican Party Biden Trump Harris that this marching to the brink of World War II is much more involved and complicated than their particular foibles you cannot begin to understand settler colonialism in North America not to mention settler colonialism in historic Palestine but particularly the former without understanding that one of the reasons why settler colonialism prevailed in North America is that the folks whose language we are now speaking are speaking of the English uh hopped on the Protestant train launched by Martin Luther in Germany in 1517 leading to a round Robbin of religious wars against the reigning Catholic Powers amongst other things the Protestants cut deals with the Muslim Powers particularly ottoman turkey against the interest of the Catholic Powers not least France Spain and Portugal but they also cut deals with the Jewish diaspora which is one of the reasons why the Jewish diaspora has done relatively well in North America as opposed to being chased out of or I should say liquidated by Dent of the Holocaust in Central and Eastern Europe in the 1930s and 1940s and you may see it as a kind of poetic justice that uh we may be on the verge of a gargantuan compan shift in the global correlation of forces with the progressive decline of us imperialism which may be accelerated precisely because of this alliance with the Jewish diaspora per Israel which as noted in the 1500s accounted for the accelerated rise of London than this revolting spawn in Washington DC and so there might be a kind of Epic a kind of bookend that we can see from the 1500s to the 2000s to 2024 uh in particular uh in any case I should mention that in light of the admitted strength of the rightwing in this country we should not ignore the lessons of History which suggests that Progressive forces have been able to overcome that formidable by forging Global alliances Global alliances that have been conspicuously missing in light of the aformentioned unruffled trip of the leader of the United Arab Emirates to the overal office or prime minister Maloney to the Oval Office Etc uh the left and the radicals and the progressives need to step up our International game game but at the same time in light of what befell most recently the auru 3 in Tampa Bay Florida that is to say these militants with the African people Socialist Party who were convicted on conspiracy charges not least because of their opposition to the Escapade in Ukraine uh perhaps that is a signal that those who are so bold and so embolden as to venture onto the international stage should expect a fierce Counterattack by the US ruling Elite but that did not detain and deter our ancestors such as Nat Turner Afra mentioned such as Den Mor vesley affr mentioned such as Gabriel affr mentioned thank you Dr H for that incredibly uh comprehensive analysis and answer um and and you did mention your time in Beirut um and for those that um want to learn more about Dr Horn's time in Beirut you can check out the I think it's a 10-part series of Dr horn on the activist News Network where he talks about his time in Bay where he met then the then PLO leader yaser Arafat but Dr horn as we go around the horn um we also wanted to ask you about the 75th anniversary of the People's Republic of China the headlines from the global majority about this historic anniversary were quote president Z V's greater contributions to Humanity's peace and development end quote whereas the headlines from the West read quote Z Zin ping forecast rough Seas on the 75th anniversary of the People's Republic of China end quote Dr horn what what were your takeaways from president X's speech and just generally the 75th anniversary of the People's Republic of China well I I gave a statement to a US grouping friends of socialist China on the 75th Anniversary you can likely find that online using those key words where I saluted the 75th iversary and particularly saluted China's Aid to socialist Cuba China's assistance to Africa per the Forum on China African cooperation just concluded in Beijing in September 2024 but I should mention for the benefit of the youth in our audience that China's road to this point has been circuitous and bumpy uh when I was much younger particularly during the time when China was effectuating an antant with us imperialism in the early 1970s on an anti-soviet basis I oppose that unton quite vigorously because of course it led to China's collaboration with us imperialism against socialist Vietnam in the late 1970s before that China's Alliance and collaboration with aparte South Africa and Angola but if the Vietnamese and the angolans are able to say let bygones be bygones which they have uh as a matter of fact Angola is in the cat bird seat right now they major recipient of aid from China and Mr Biden plans to visit Angola uh within the next few weeks in order to try to court Angola after trying to prevent the ruling party the mpla from coming to power the new Chinese excuse me the new Vietnamese leader toam was just in Beijing uh accepting generous Aid so if they can LED byon by guns it seems to me it would be chish indeed if I were to hold some sort of Grudge I mean that's not how politics are work but on the other hand it's important for the Youth in our audience to recognize how we got to this point and I think it's particularly important because speaking personally I still feel and I think accurately that I suffer a certain amount of discrimination from certain comrades on the left who feel that uh I was too supportive of the Soviet Union during the Cold War even though I think that that was the historically justifiable position but uh one of the things I found about people in the United States is that they don't necessarily update their ideology or update their thinking uh they do not believe in what I just talked about letting bygones be bygones in any case that particular episode if I ever write a memoir I will have to deal with it at some length although I allude to it in the book armed struggle AFF mention now Ryan if you don't mind let let me segue oh yeah go go right ahead which is that we're going to talk about uh certain slogans for example power to the people land and bread and one slogan that I've been raising lately which I think is relevant to the us experience is white supremacy is the highest form of class collaborationism and class collaborationism is the highest form of white supremacy you cannot begin to understand the success of settler colonialism in North America without understanding class collaborationism I deal with this in my 16th century book with regard to the efforts of the English to send settlers to North America uh it was a multiclass venture with the 1% in London financing shopkeepers workers declass elements to sail into what they call North Carolina in the 1580s you saw that on January 6 2021 the attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power with CEOs flying in on private jets military veterans Etc trying to ensure that Mr Trump returns to office and you see it today uh with Shan O'Brien of the teamsters speaking to the Republican convention and let me say that I'm in support of the current docker strike by the International Longshoremen’s Association (ILA) — which represents dockworkers on the East Coast — has historical ties to organized crime, including its current leadership. In contrast, dockworkers on the West Coast are represented by the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU), which has been historically supported by Communists and radicals. Make of that what you will.
As for Mr. Daggett, the leader of the ILA, there was a front-page story in what I assume was his favorite newspaper—at least until he called the strike—the New York Post, featuring photos of his mansion in New Jersey and his Bentley parked in the driveway. Like many union leaders involved in class collaboration, he has benefited handsomely from the dues of his 45,000 members.
I wish the union well and am supportive of their efforts. However, this situation also illustrates the aphorism of class collaboration and white supremacy. Historically, the ILA has been a racist union, whereas the ILWU has been known for its anti-racist stance. During the Red Scare, the NAACP chose to support the mob-affiliated, racist ILA rather than the supposedly Communist-led ILWU.
The other aphorism worth considering is an update to W.E.B. Du Bois’ notion of double consciousness, which he defined as the experience of “two warring ideals in one body” — being both a U.S. national and a Black person, in constant conflict. I believe that in the 21st century, we must address the issue of “double allegiances.” We see this today with many remaining silent — including those who claim to have Africa in their hearts — concerning events like the recent visit of the UAE leader to the White House or African nations joining the BRICS bloc (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa), with hardly a response from Black leaders, except, for example, opposition voiced by Gregory Meeks of the Congressional Black Caucus in Southeast Queens.
This question of double allegiances is likely to be a dominant issue in the 21st century, just as Du Bois’ concept of double consciousness was central to understanding the dilemmas of Black people in the 20th century.
One more point: consider the recent developments in Sri Lanka, the teardrop-shaped island off the southern tip of India, where radicals have come to power. Historically, when this happens, U.S. imperialism seeks to destabilize the regime, causing economic pain and creating an outflow of refugees. These refugees are then manipulated by leaders like Prime Minister Meloni in Italy to stoke right-wing populist sentiments. However, this approach may be more difficult to execute today because Sri Lanka, if it plays its cards right, can court India, China, Bangladesh, and Pakistan to counteract any harmful strategies the U.S. might attempt.
Of course, U.S. imperialism, like some leftist groups I’ve mentioned, has difficulty adapting. During the Cold War, we were told that Marxist-oriented regimes were a problem because they were pro-Soviet. But even after the Soviet Union’s dissolution, the same rigid policies persist.
Another development to note is the stance of the new Prime Minister of Japan, Fumio Kishida, who, despite being a hawk (which I don’t see as good news), might eventually clash with U.S. imperialism. He suggested that the U.S.-Japan alliance be updated: since the United States has troops on Japanese soil, perhaps Japan should station troops on U.S. soil. He was referring to Guam, but who knows — perhaps next he’ll mention San Francisco.
This idea is similar to what outgoing NATO leader Jens Stoltenberg has been concerned about: European nations are seeking to break free from NATO’s control and establish their own independent military capabilities. While this is not necessarily good news in itself, it does create complications for the U.S.-dominated NATO structure — or what he called “Asian NATO.”
Dr. W, thank you so much for coming back on the show and covering so many topics in just 30 minutes. Thank you to our audience for tuning in and participating in the chat. We look forward to speaking with you all next week.
Dr. W, have a great week. We share these insights only to underscore that those of us who are revolutionary Pan-Africanists do not pursue revolution out of some ideological infatuation; it is a historical necessity. We have no choice but to follow history and use it to benefit our people.
Power to the people. power to the people