I talked to a room full of business owners for eight hours about how to make more money here's one of the best moments about how to improve your offer so there's something called in the software called willingness to pay which is like what's the thing that gets people to want to buy and so they plotted everything across this chart in terms of the features like what are the things in the like the offer that had the highest willingness to pay that people valued the most so you want to be in this box over here and the four things that they found were exclusive one access just so we have buckets to think about this through exclusive content exclusive events and the way they ran This research study they had newsletter which to me is content but I'm assuming that this is basically this is probably video that was written and so those are the four biggest things I had willing us to pay and so they also looked at like exclusive merch discounts that were associated with the community they looked at priority support like they had a number of different things that they looked at but the thing that had the four that had the highest willingness to pay were these four things so these are the things that people value the most within the context of recurring Community if I were to build a community these were the things that I would include some of you may not want to do this but when I um started gym launch one of the things that we were able to get a huge boost in conversions was my sales guys were able to say like you can talk to Alex every day and so I hopped on a daily call every single day and so they knew that and so I would hop on Zoom for 60 Minutes same format every time I was like hey here's how you ask a question put the questions in the chat this is the format if you don't follow the format I'm not going to answer the question rather than hearing everyone's life story I could just be like what's your Revenue what's your you know how many new members a month what's the main constraint that you're dealing with and like what have you tried so far and so by getting that at least in that context I was able to just really quickly Hammer I'd be able to answer 100 plus questions in an hour and even if I couldn't get to someone's question the likelihood that their question was one of those questions was fairly high and so what ended up happening is like a lot of people ended up just like eating lunch with Alex because I did in the middle of the day because at the time for gym owners the middle of the day is the the time when they have the most time like the Peaks are morning and afternoon and so I I would agree that if you increase call frequency you will have more people and it makes it very sexy from a selling it's like you can talk to me every day so if we're if we're looking at this from a bucket's perspective this is one of those uh things that we can add to improve any offer you have and it'll be more and more powerful the higher the frequency and obviously the lower the headcount but if we're looking at very high volume communities then it'll just be frequencies it's the only thing that we can really control for okay so these are a lot of different ideas that we can do oh go ahead we have a team that is trained and and really fit and they offer calls instead of you how do you get people to want to get on a call with your team because we have that and when it's me everybody's coming when the team you mean uh like group calls with the team group calls with the team but it's qualified coaches they have have been in there for over a year right and they interact with the members on a daily basis if you can answer the questions better than they can then it means that they need to be better like if someone comes to me and says hey Alex how do you run gdn Display Network I'm like I don't know ask I don't click anything I I barely I don't even have my logins for my bank account I have no idea like you you know what I'm saying like you're you're still very good at that not to say you should be bad at it but it's more like how do I get them to be more in the day-to-day so that they can't answer because customers are blood hounds for value and so like if they're going to you it's because you're providing more value than your team is like that's the big the big principle you know like so I don't think there's like a a quick hit tactic it's like the only way they will go is either if you just remove yourself entirely and they're the only people they can have access to or because I mean I I did this I had I had my daily call and eventually I went from five days a week to four days a week to three days a week to two days a week to one day a week and I would replace them with other people now at a certain point the the the call uh attendance it I mean it went probably in half but then it stayed there and especially because the frequency they could interact with me was much lower like it took 12 months for me to completely remove myself so it's not like all right so I'm not doing daily calls anymore coffee is with Hamed you know like it like it it won't work yeah it's it's very slow and then heavy on edification and then also coaching them on how to I mean like on Pres presentation skills it's like literally teaching them how to present and if have you ever have you ever had like sales teams with phone sales and things like that okay well it's a lot like training scripting and so it's like well this person asked this question and you said this let's play it and you do game like this is Ops but like play it pause now say it this way okay great say it again great change your tone like this say it again okay next time someone asks this question what do you say like that kind of drilling but that's what it takes to to get yourself out of it and most people aren't willing to do that which is why most things aren't sellable so these are access from a Content perspective did anyone have any like uh and like features products that were like kind of zesty or had some you know Zing to it that that you found people were like this is the reason I bought Kenneth what's the most popular part of your offer uh the bonuses uh so like those fast on of like things that can fast and do something that like the faster that they can something done the quicker they want to get in so like I'm fast results or fast results yeah so um I do credit right so like helping people clean their credit I don't do it for them anymore but I give them my hacks to be able to get it done fast and most of the time it's a long process it takes months sometimes but some of the things that I've learned to be a get stuck from even a day or two days so that results to become real faster is what makes you go buy right soon as I say that you say the exact number of days uh yeah so like one of my things is to get something removed in tuning for 72 hours and once I say that you don't even care about the rest of the stuff like I'm get for that you know and that's one my bonus today from a bonus uh perspective because I literally just finished the third book on this um something that I've given a lot of thought to is that people don't buy because of the aggregate value they buy because one thing is worth it to them and so rather than trying to make this list that adds up to this thing it's more about how do I have as many very legitimate value things that on their own are worth an excess of the price and so trying to think about my bonuses for anything that way so how do I make this just every single bonus has to earn its weight that it has to be worth more than the price and that'll force you to also get a little bit more Consolidated on the bonuses um and really just focus on the sexiest stuff and usually for different avatars if you have like different psychographics of people who are coming into your business like I'm sure there's some people who have like really bad credit from a long time and some people just had like they had a medical bill or something and something happened right and so having specific bonuses that are going to speak that in and of themselves for that one Avatar is worth it I want to have like the punchiest most distilled every one of these if you read it you you'd want to buy for this alone it's like taking mental rent it's like every one of them has to pay rent to be there because they only need one reason to buy I think just asking yourself what is what is something that if I removed everything else if I just offered this one thing people would still buy and then using that as the litmus test for every one of the bonuses that you add and then I think it will force you to think of better things that you can do to make your overall offer more valuable and I would also think about that through the different lenses of the avatars the guy who has a medical emergency the guy who has 10 years the person who got in a bad divorce like each of them for that person this one thing alone is worth it you valuable like what's your experience when you just like he SE something last night about them yeah I've been running two in real life events every month recently and um interestingly chers actually went up which is so surprising but it makes sense because look I do it in real life event I bring the boys out to like a big Park we wrestle in the mud and then we all dress up and go to like this business Mastermind did you let anyone come anyone who was inside yeah we were thinking about now make locking it behind a 12 month first yeah I mean that would have been my my first thing is like just move it so then it's like this big thing because then it goes from I'm missing out on this thing to I can't wait till I get this thing and I think like I think that that alone would probably solve it as a second little tidbit for anybody else who does events whenever you do events you want to also announce the next one upsells happen at the point of greatest need not the not the point of greatest satisfaction it's a big misn number sometimes they happen at the same time often times they don't so like if I give you a steak dinner and then you eat your steak dinner and then I say hey do you want a steak you're like no because the timing's wrong and so we want to we want to offer them the stick when they're starving not when they've just eaten and so they like after an event they've just had like this massive feast and so they're like I'm good for a while like I'm I got I got my value and so it's like oh let me open loop the fact that there's going to be another thing that's coming and it's even better than this thing if you think you like this wait until dessert right and you just you just keep pushing it out we learned this because I my my turn spiked at one of these massive events I spent like two million bucks on the event just make it this like wild crazy thing everyone's like this was awesome thank you so much like and I was like what but churn going into the event went down so it's like okay how do I get that to stay it's like oh you just always have one that they know that they can come to and then I think put it past the 12 month and you'll be golden all right so events I'm going to put two bullets here number one is uh have next planned and then lock after six to 12 oops months make it something people earn from a value perspective of something else to add as a bonus like conferences events things like that tend to have real price tags associated with them and if you're charging $7 you're like Well normally I would charge $99 for this two-day virtual event or something you get that and again you can you can put it later on so that they they they lean into to staying for it as an aside and probably an obvious point but I might as well make it um you can also sell stuff at those events just thr out there fine line though is you don't want to be spamming too much so if you have speakers you don't let them sell at all no no no no no no no no like no like no one sells it your event but you and if you're going to sell one of the things I think I think people make a mistake of is these people already like you you don't need to have a very long pitch you just need to present the offer and be like hey by the way I've had you know number of you guys been talking about this stuff talk you 15 minutes if you want do it before launch or do it before like do it before a talking period so that if you have sales guys or whatever they can help sign people up having looked at data across our portfolio companies at run events um one really interesting thing has come out which is that if you can segment the audience of the people who are attending based on revenue and income I used to think about like what percentage of the audience am I converting and now I just don't care at all it's just of qualified people in the room who am I converting like you can absolutely go into a room and close 80% if everyone's qualified and so a lot of those events from an upsell perspective are going to be about who's in the room anyone even do a newsletter here well people value it that would be like posts in the community yeah I would post and then and then uh send email to everyone I think an easy one is to get your successful students and interview them it's like a testimonial and content and motivation I think a lot of you guys were saying how do you get your people motivated hearing of people that are like them winning is the best one of the other things that um to talking about like what makes a company sellable these success interviews so uh we do this thing in our portfolio companies called life cycle ads so there's a lot of different ad types that you can do that are outside of your face and one of my favorite ones is life cycle ads you'll see some from school soon um but basically these success interviews if you're smart about it you actually walk them through an epiphany bridge and so what that means is I'll just draw it so you've got internal external and then before during and after like I've looked at a zillion testimonial templates but that's the one that I've been able to teach and my team can do it which is what was life like before internally before you saw this did this what were the external stats that other people would observe about you before you decide to do this thing what made you like what made you actually take the next step externally and then internally what were the things that you were most concerned about and this is like the key question and I'll explain why in a second but someone's like yeah I I uh you know I I was struggling I you you know my my wife didn't respect me anymore cuz I couldn't make money and then external stuff I was making $33,000 a month I was behind on payments I almost lost our house I had to downgrade our car external stuff and so then you know I saw an ad from Alex whatever and it kind of caught my eye and we're like well what were your biggest concerns well I didn't know if it was legit um well then what made you decide to do it anyways well I saw all the other people that had you know had testimonials and they looked like gyms like mine and actually found somebody on the page that had almost the exact same model as me and I was like okay well if I work for that guy maybe I'll give it a shot and this is why it's so key in the decision-making process because you're literally talking to the prospect from a prospect not you walking through them making a decision about why they laid their fears and their concerns and took the next step anyways and then you're on the interview now and you say okay well what's life like now externally and internally well now I had I was able to get back the car I upgraded we moved to a better neighborhood my kids can go to a better school and I feel better about myself blah blah blah right and so this is one part of the life cycle and so um you can condense that into a 60 or 90c ad with just the Highlight points and it also becomes an ad and so when you're running these interviews it's content its bonuses and its ads let me hit a couple uh of these I think I can probably just round them out pretty quickly attracting the right people comes down to what bonuses you're promoting and what promises go with them and so like most times people like I want to get richer people but when someone poor comes on the phone I still take their money if you want to attract better customers you have to be able and willing to turn away worse customers all right I'm going to tell a three minute story but that way you'll remember it um I did a Consulting day years ago with a guy who is in my space in the gym space many years ago and he had the same sales velocity as me so he was selling the same number of people as I was but we were making 70 times more profit than he was and his cost to acire customer was about the same as mine selling about the same number of units but the main difference is that his customers were worth $5,000 and my customers were worth $442,000 and so the thing is is that he just ran ads about like hey if you're in Fitness and you want to make money come to me and my ads were you have to be a gym owner you have to have ass signed lease you have to have at least one employee and you have to have at least 30 members at your gym and the way that we figured that out was that we looked at all of our customers found the top 20% said what do these people have in common and then we made that the qualification and then that ran through every part of the funnel so that was in the ads we said this is who it's for this is who it's not for if you're a trainer if you just want to make money online if you want to do all these things this is not for you and then R people were like thank God I just wanted to have like a legit place where real gyms real businesses are here who are dealing with employees and all that stuff and so also to that same degree if you have bonuses and you know that these beginners love that bonus cross it off because the people who are going to be the better avatars are going to have a very different set of things that will be valuable for that and so it's a it's a big strategic change like your offer changes your bonuses change your marketing changes your funnel changes like you change the business entirely when you when you decide to attract better customers if you are serious about it otherwise it's just a complaint forever like for example a really business you know busy business owner to um to your point um they might not want calls but they might love the fact that they can just DM or slack or something like that not slack but you know like DM um to get access and have quick responses that might be more valuable than even having calls and if you're dealing with Founders then it's like Founders is very broad but if it's like Tech Founders then it's like okay well then that's now we can get we can get really juicy on this and make stuff that that they would want like we also have our pitch deck that has already generated over $100 million in fundraising and you can just copy and paste your logo in and then your benefit and selling points that alone is worth more than the price of this thing for 5 years so that's about attracting the right people we covered what to add so let's talk High ticket versus low ticket coexisting and versus transition so as long as the price points aren't like too close then I don't think you're going to have an issue of uh cannibalization like and the right type of customer just wants to pay more to have more support more implementation help more Etc fundamentally like I like to think of the clear line between the two as implementation versus stuff that's unlimited has no marginal cost that's how I would differentiate those things um the things that are not immediately scalable are the things that you charge more for so you're doing a low ticket when do you when should you even think about adding a higher ticket thing you have a lot more team a lot more employees you have more reputation risk that goes like the amount that people are upset for for $7 a month is very different than $10,000 just a very different level of upset if something doesn't deliver um and I will hit on this scammer thing because we might as well hit it now the big reason the information Market has the reputation it does is not because of what they teach it's because of what they promise we have workshops here we don't do them for free because we incur costs in order to like put these on we have Caterers we have all the stuff right no one's upset because I don't promise anything I say I'll share the stuff that has worked well for me and if it works for you then great you get in trouble when you say you will make $10,000 a month in 30 days and they don't make $10,000 a month in 30 days and the vast majority don't make $10,000 a month in 30 days that's like that is fun like Dave Ramsey so like let's zooming all the way out like the people that you want to look at from a brand perspective Dave Ramsey is a guru he sells courses he sells events he sells an app and he sells coaching literally his four products he sells media to technically to advertisers but those are the four main products that he sells how does he do it in a way that no one calls Dave Ramsey a scam because the promises that he makes are absolutely justifiable if you save $2,000 a month you will have $2,000 more dollars a month no one's going to fight him on that if you didn't save the money you didn't save the money right now that's part of the unique thing about his particular business is that everyone makes some amount of money and he says if you spend less of it you will have more left over and if you listen to any of his stuff he he doesn't even he doesn't even make claims he just provides value and then enough people because when you're just providing value you grow at such a faster rate that then people just want to they just want more and so I think someone else was early asking questions like what is free versus what isn't in terms of uh content honestly the same stuff and that's why and to be fair I take that more as my free stuff should be just as good as my paid stuff more than my paid stuff is is now junk because my free stuff is not good like I spend a year on a book that I give away every year and I just want that to be so exceptional that it spreads on its own and so I think if you think about how do I make my amazing free stuff just as good as my amazing paid stuff at some point you just you draw a line and you say if you want more of that you can pay for it and people will be like well I consumed all this I want more and they'll pay for it because this was worth more than the price of free and it was worth more than the time they gave go for it yeah so my question I guess is more specific on not that it's difficult to satisfy customers we have no issue with that we have had not a single complaint from people calling us a scam sure from the program the issue is because it's high ticket people want to look it up people that didn't buy that just went the sales call they're the ones that are posting this negativity a lot of times you just how to tell these people are crazy but just by the way they write but we've had a threat yeah but we've had a threat on RD grow for example when people search it show thought and so it's like what do you do to combat that let me let me zoom out for you one every single YouTube video that I post people are like he's just trying to sell his course I don't even have a course for sale so like point one point two is that the only way that you combat that is being 10 times louder so think about it as like a percentage of Mind space that exists they're this loud if you're this loud then they're 50% of the talking about you so you drown it out you shrink them into irrelevance it's the only way you deal with it because you're not going to change humans people who don't know you will make an assumption because you teach anything about making money that you automatically have these things that they've seen from other people who teach money and so they will just make that Association on their own which by the way is what branding is so like you're not like as long as you do this stuff that will happen and so the question is what do you do about it I don't think buying the radit thread is the the answer because another one will come up it doesn't really matter you just need to do this WR yeah like zero attention like and I'm only going to highlight this because you're here because this is important the fact that like you flew here and like the most pressing question or one of the most pressing questions you had was this is them winning because all of that mind space could just go towards making more money making the business better making the product better like they get zero like in general also if someone like makes a big public blast or they do a hit piece and I'm sure I will get one in the future at some point I will never acknowledge it why would I why would I why would I tell my audience about this thing like that's that's the biggest gift in the world now all these people are telling their audiences about you and they're doing it for free okay so that was um that was about attracting the oh this was this one coexisting between the two and the when uh it's yeah it's it's an entirely different business if you want to do that like it will absolutely be absolutely be a increase in in income uh the process is is basically weaving it into the customer Journey so if you have your journey for the customer who comes in they you know they get an event at month you know whatever three and they've got their coffee with hems every day d d lots of coffee this is awesome we want to make sure that the communication that's going to them during this period of time we want to have a point that's an activation point which basically demonstrates that they're ready you don't want to pitch everybody in the community because it it's not for everybody and everyone wouldn't benefit and it just won't look good but if someone has now reached a certain level like they hit a th000 subscribers or whatever the metric is for you say hey guess what you won this and then you have a call and so that call you provide value and then you just ask them if they want to do next steps it's just and all you do in that call is say you're here you want to get here you will absolutely get there on your own the question is whether you want to take it 5 years or you want to have it take 5 months yeah go ahead um I've got a good one in terms of when you know if you should offer a high ticket because I think Hamel was kind of talking about this okay yeah that's the process um so what I found when I was selling L ticket first because that's how we got started was that a lot of my successful students wanted more they kept coming to me and they like how I've already hit the goal that this course was for and I want I've got more money but I want more I want to go to the next level and you don't have anything like I want more like what they were they were like basically offering to pay me money for something more and once there's enough of those happening that's when you know that there's a need for a second level basically does that make sense yeah need you need the demand yeah definitely don't put it in until there's a you can see a clear need cuz then all you do is when you see these people hit this Lev a lot of them will ask for it and then you can just message those particular people that way you're not like smashing everyone in your community every day about your high ticket thing it's more just Cherry picket and you get the best people in with without even really promoting it does that make sense that's what I've found works well you can engineer the activation Point by telling them that as soon as they hit the objective metrics they win an award like for us we had a sword so when a when Jim hit a million dollars a year they would get a sword and so we' do the live event like when we do the our events we'd have a award ceremony and everyone get kned whatever they get the sword but whatever that that number is for you they're going to turn in a video they're going to turn in substantiation all of that becomes ads by the way the second way of getting ads from people um and then you also can then just they will just lean into you because they want the thing and then you can then Ascend but I really I will I will reemphasize Sam's Point that like you can you can never do it too late you absolutely can do it too early because like if you waited four years and you have this massive Community it'll just be better like the engine's still going to be the front end like the the community the low ticket on the front end is still going to be the main economic engine that drives the demand into the higher ticket did you guys see the guy who won the school games this month in March so this guy's a high ticket guy selling Insurance stuff or whatever and he sold a $110,000 thing that was his whole business he came on school and then he wanted to win the recordings from today so by the way shout out um so and so he just got on the phone with his normal customers and instead of selling the 10K thing he just uh sold them $1,000 like $999 for a year and put him into the school community and just got three of them on because he wanted to get the free recordings but then the sales were so easy that he switched his model and sold 50 people into that in the in like 20 something days and so um I I mean Sam and I've talked about this at length but I think there there is a movement that's that's moving more from like Grass Is Always Greener there's tons of operational challenges that that exist with high ticket um in general and it also have to factoring profit cuz yeah I know in the info space you hear a lot of numbers throwing around was Revenue yeah like million a month it's everyone's goal but I've met a many people that make million a month that actually profit less than hamson so like CU he has no ads and he just employs his sibling and he lives at and the easiest way for H to double is just to do Affiliates so like he could get to 400 Grand a month and I know a lot of people that make a mill a month don't make 400 Grand a month profit for sure like 100 so always be more realistic about it like you hear these big numbers but by the time you pay a sales team and ads a lot of that money's gone if I could go back in time again we talk about sellability of a business um gym launch was by far the most expensive player in the market so ours was $4,000 a month 43 technically um per month to gym owners who on average take home $30,000 a year tough there was another guy actually in the UK and I noticed this price point continued to reappear but there were guys who were able to get like 36-month 40 plus month ltvs selling more or less the same thing not the same thing obviously but like at like $800 to $1,200 a month and so the what I realized from gym launch and we've you know obviously we've since changed the pricing and whatnot was that we had to price to people's worst month cuz even though if we made on average so the average GM for us added an extra 120,000 in profit per year just using the system that we had and so for me I was like okay well net of us it was 120 it was 160 with us like if we didn't if we were free right so we made a 160 net of us is 120 in extra profit now again these guys are making 30 so I quadrupled their income like pretty sexy offer and we did that on average but they would still cancel if they had a bad month and so I saw that these other people were able to maintain customers because they had they were above their worst month they still could afford the thing and so because of that they knew that if it got one thing a year it would pay for it and they were willing to continue to pay at that price point and so there's a wild difference between what someone will pay at their searing hot pain Point versus what they will pay after they had a stake dinner like do you still want to have some stake well I might want to have some stake tomorrow so maybe I'll be willing to pay but significantly less like that price point compared to the value is where people continue to pay it's just it's I was impatient because I wanted to make the money but if I had known like but for context if I had 6,000 gyms right now paying $1,000 a month I'd be making 6 million a month or that business be doing 6 million a month just on that side we had the supplement side too um and so that would have also been significantly more profitable I think if you really do provide value you might find that there's an amazing spot at like $700 a month that people just like you the thing is you'll be able to sell like n for selling will go up like 8X right and so that's where like that this is literally just a pricing graph and then you just look at Max units and LTV by the way for everybody small group is the most profitable way to do it