greetings class welcome back to our hermeneutics um course instead of us doing a typical lecture what we have today is the wonderful privilege of having an interview conversation with a couple of colleagues and friends of mine who you all either know are going to get to know really well here soon but we're going to talk about utilizing extra-biblical resources or extra-biblical tools in our exegetical process and so this is very important for all of us and so really looking forward to it and let me just before we open up in prayer let me just give a brief introduction we have dr elaine bernius and she will be teaching your old testament course as well so you're going to have an opportunity to hear more from her but i'm so grateful for you dr bernius just joining us here today and then we have dr david ward you know him from biblical preaching you know him from our time together and he's going to be helping us as well to uh to really begin to answer some questions about how do we use some of these resources such as um bible dictionaries and inner linears and concordance and commentaries all of these things it's going to be a really helpful discussion and this will be something that you'll need to refer back to in your assignment you have a exegetical tools paper um that will be coming up that needs to be turned in and so this will hopefully uh give you a lot of help as well as another video that will be posted that walks you through in a more step-by-step manner of using an online resources our online resource as well so let's pray just like we do for most of our classes as we start off and then we're going to jump right into it so heavenly father we thank you for our opportunity today to to just grow to grow in your word grow in our understanding of how we can learn your word even better and god we just pray that you would just open up our hearts as we open up our minds and uh let this be for your glory and for your honor in jesus name amen all right so i realized when we talk about this there are some people that are just excited to to hear about this they're they're learning about okay we're going to talk about commentaries now we finally get to the good stuff you know um and then there's those who might be listening and and they're watching this and they feel um just intimidated as they think about man i'm not um i'm not an expert in in these areas these um these are some big books these are the books that you put in the corner of your office but you really don't open up they just kind of make you look real smart so so here's a question where do we start as you think about um just this whole process of you know we've been talking about looking from the forest to the trees and looking at structural relationships and then kind of diving deeper into passages and we looked at just how do we observe and ask good questions and then make our hunches or our proposals of different um of of different interpretations but now where do we start there's so many resources what kind of resources do you suggest somebody who is brand new to this in terms of learning how to exegete particular passages so i'll just kind of leave that open as we just get going and just jump in as you both feel led to i think there are a few um major categories of resources that we use and bible commentaries are one it's kind of important that we make sure we distinguish usually when i talk about bible commentaries what i'm really talking about are modern critical commentaries so you know we're talking about um you know generally speaking commentaries in the last 50 80 100 years that sort of thing the goal of which is often to pull together the best thinking related to a particular book because they're usually done you know with books um and and pull together kind of some of the best thinking about that let you know where there's disagreement out there on different types of interpretation now other things that get called bible commentaries are you know things that that are earlier than that you know farther back for us um usually written by one person i mean you think about you know that john calvin's um notes on the bible john wesley's notes on the bible i mean man man those are amazing thinkers amazing men of god who um give a give wonderful spiritual insight on the bible but you can tell by how i've described it those are doing two different things one of them is giving one person spiritual well-informed but spiritual insight from their that's relate you know that pulls from their time the other is the goal is to pull together a lot of that thinking so you'll you'll see you know calvin and wesley minton often in modern critical commentaries um so for our purposes i think kind of that best go-to is your modern critical commentary um there are different types of those even um but that's going to help you try to pull together some of your best thinking and hit on the major interpretive questions that you would have related to your passage historical cultural linguistic um all of that and and try to try to help you process that that i think that's probably my my initial go-to what do you think dave sure i'd i'd just give some simple ones we might forget so dr bernius is the expert in this area she's brilliant and i i lean on her advice on these things so and i know that she's helping us pull together a document that lists some of the resources that we're going to try to have in every nation seminary's library so it's accessible to people not just if you can buy the book i know that we have some countries in which that's easy two days later the book shows up we have other countries in which it's difficult one month later the book might show up and we have some countries in which that's impossible even illegal so i want you to know that we're aware of that but there's a couple of things that we might easily forget that are in a way extra biblical the first one is in a way extra biblical the second one is extra-biblical the first was just your interlinear it's not really extra biblical exactly it's kind of your bible but it's this bridge in between right at least in my process i've been doing english bible i've been doing the structural relationships and the the detailed observations and questions and hunches uh that dr taylor was speaking of but uh then the bridge often for me is after i've done several rounds of observations i go through with my interlinear and so uh we'll talk about that in this other video how to do that with biblehub.com in a free way no matter where you are if you can access biblehub dot com in your country i don't know for everyone but if you can then you're able to get to that because that shows me what's under the hood of this version so really in a sense the bible most of us read is actually extra biblical because that's a version it's a translation it's actually extra biblical it is our bible in a sense and great scholars have worked to translate it they did a better job than i will do on anything of the week so i don't want to go against that and yet it shows me the connotations in other words the emotional freight of the word that i might have missed it shows me the tone it shows me the structure that i might have missed given the way the version could have covered it so the interlinear i almost always do that and almost feels like cheating because things just start to show up really quickly i would have missed otherwise and i feel more informed than i really am because i saw it then later on i go to those critical commentaries dr bernie has mentioned i feel conversant i'm able to have a conversation with them instead of just receive i can say yeah you're saying that but i know that the next word was wait what was that and i go pull that out so the interlinear is the key one and it's easy one of the easy ones to forget it's helpful the second one that's extra biblical that we probably wouldn't mention if i don't mention it is people uh never preach alone never preach alone never preach alone never preach alone you know that's my mantra so uh there are there's a diversity of people in my life that give me insight into biblical passages different ages different ethnicities different socioeconomic backgrounds different genders and so i cycle around them i don't put all the weight of my help on just one set of them i have different zones and you may just need to have one small set of people you turn to it first but for me the same day i do reading and critical commentaries i make sure i engage with my christian community that helps me balance that sort of scholarly thing that comes at me from the commentaries with a real visceral uh this community of interpretation and life all mixed together i try to have ministers in that group and lay people in that group as well that just give me give me thoughts and they're free if they charged i wouldn't keep using them so they're just you know friends we pass it back and forth one friend in particular i i use more than others because he uses me more than others um we passed back google docs back and forth and and and type and and comment in the in in the margins and i get such a wealth of of insight into the text uh from from from that so so interlinear and then people of course critical commentaries theological dictionaries etc those are all helpful and i do read calvin just about every sermon i do i know there's these gathering books but i usually just reach because i want another time period i want at least a different time period anyway that's a smorgasbord of where to begin but i tend to begin with the interlinear move toward people engage critical commentaries and then move forward that's great you know uh one of the things you just mentioned and i want to um hit on this is the idea of being conversant with uh the commentaries and that's different than um simply just going there first could you elaborate just a little bit more and and dr bernice you can also jump in on this as well just where in the process say if you're looking at a weekly rhythm of preaching or ministering and teaching in some shape form or fashion where in the process do you start bringing in some of these other resources um the interlinear is the um the commentary and whatnot well it's fluid to some degree it depends on on the week and then and the text and where it's taking you i get that but i have a general pattern that that's in in the book in terms of the calendar there for me uh so 13 days out i'm doing those detailed observations i start to get to those things in bridging with interlinears usually 12 days out so it's like tuesday but the the sermons next not this sunday but next sunday um and and then i'm usually in beginning to engage some level of critical commentaries wednesday if everything's ideal my world's perfect and i get to arrange things the way i want then wednesday i'm talking with the group of people who can help me think it through and i'm starting to engage uh critical commentaries but not until i've done the detailed observation work begin to answer those questions for the data that's in the text uh then gone through an interlinear to make sure i've seen what's under the hood uh and and and then as i've talked to people as well so the context is coming with me contemporary issues are coming with me and concerns are coming with me then i'm going to the commentary a preacher one preacher i worked with this week he told me that some of the things that he found for this last sunday's sermon just weren't mentioned at all in the commentaries but then he said this and i know that we were finally getting through he said it was so beautiful because i knew it was good and right and it was in the text and i was going to preach it and i had confidence to preach it because it was biblical it just wasn't what the commentaries were talking about that's not wrong it was within the range of meaning those commentaries were bounding off it just wasn't what they were talking about then you know you're in the right place if you can only preach what you find in commentaries that means they're your source instead of your checking guide dr bernie is what uh whatever you'd say to that i i would agree i told you dave earlier dr ward i'd agree with you um and and on that idea that they that it's fluid when you touch on things um especially i feel like for students when you're in the old testament um you know you're in the middle of prophets and or and they say something i don't even have a clue what that verse even means you know sometimes grabbing that content that that commentary flip into chapter 12 verse 4 getting a quick read on what a commentator says so you can keep going when you're in the midst of your observation day so you're not just tripping at at one particular point that that's a moment when you might pull that just to help you um gain some some understanding and another place that i think we often forget in commentaries a piece that we forget is the introduction to commentary so you've got this big old book the first 30 to 100 pages are an introduction where they're doing everything from setting and historical cultural details to theological themes um as well as usually an outline which we talk about whole book surveys and outlines and whole book surveys are two different things that i know you're talking about and you're gonna be doing some old some old testament whole book surveys for me to get practice on that and that's a that's a starting point especially if you're in a sermon series on a book to try to really make sure you you're situated in the in the larger flow and context of your book do you know where your passage fits in kind of thematically in the flow of the content and so you going to to that sometimes even earlier i i think can be can be a good way to do that if you're getting you know you can come back to it later you also need to be aware if you in your commentary if you turn to chapter 12 because that's where you are they may be referencing things that they actually really developed more fully in the introduction and that you need to know that that sometimes they're going to send you there to really get the meat of what they're trying to talk about maybe a little more shorthand in your chapter because they've dealt with it more fully elsewhere in the commentary the dr bernie's taught me that and you know i i encountered those sections of commentaries um but uh i tended to be the one who would flip open to that section of the commentary read what i could find real quick and say okay we're good and then i had to stumble to find that other stuff in other places when she reminded me of that oh my goodness that was fantastic oh yeah that's what i've been doing missing so much of that good historical background setting theological themes that it was the front of the commentary and so sometimes i had discarded commentaries thinking well that wasn't very helpful because i didn't have what would have been helpful because i was just preaching that one section of the book and i didn't read the front section of the commentary i was really good advice and you might need to do some skimming there because you can't always read that whole hundred pages on on you know the day of the week when you need to get to it you might have to do some good skimming some strategic skimming you know what i found in my own um you know preaching rhythms is when i know i have a sermon series coming up like i know that in the fall i'm going to be preaching out of the book of numbers um so yeah there you go i thought you might appreciate that uh so probably in the next couple of weeks i'll start my process of reading through some of that so i don't feel the urgency right on me but that could help me just prepare having some of the background information before i really get deep into um you know just doing the the more roll up your sleeves um digging in exegetical work here so that's very helpful for from both of you now here's a question that i think is important for us to consider as well is you know we know the types of resources based on what you've just mentioned in the linears and um commentaries and you know bible dictionaries but then when we get to the specifics of well which ones do we use because you know what if i'm using the wrong one can i can i use a resource if i know that this is someone who's from a different um church tradition than what i grew up in uh is that safe to use what should we be looking out for so how would you respond to that if somebody's trying to figure out how do i make sure that i'm using the right one sometimes the answer this is my answer i can give her translations is the best bible translation to read is the one that you will read um so you know if if you if it's a you know you most resources um that are are out there are going to are able to give you something um the the other side of that is i i wouldn't trust any extra biblical resource as as infallible right as as giving me you know content that i need to just you know not question or or think through critically especially these you know these modern critical commentaries um it isn't important to realize you're going to encounter um statements and commentaries that you're you're going to disagree with and you're going to know why you disagree with them or at least you're going to have a reaction to and think i think i disagree with that i should go figure out if i disagree with those those kinds of things so um with with extra biblical resources like with translations if you can have a if you have the opportunity and the availability and the time um to try to engage with several um that can become kind of a checks and balances for you you can hear different voices in different places um dr ward's already of course mentioned the people who you have being some of those um helping you be be some of those buffers and hedges as well um and it's always tricky because as soon as i say well i like this bible commentary series there'll be one or two in there that i'm like yeah but i don't really like that so sometimes you go along and and you find your favorite genesis commentary and you find your favorite jeremiah commentary and they might not be from the same from the same series um the the the list that we mentioned that we're going to be giving you about the the different resources um divides commentaries um and this is just kind of arbitrary but it divides it into kind of technical commentaries and then semi-technical and then the term that it uses as homiletical um i know dr ward and i we've talked about that and and the ones that fall in that category here he's he's more okay with it's the last category which is the applicational or devotional um that we probably say avoid those for for um sermon prep but in the other three kind of bouncing back and forth between them you're gonna find the technical ones can be the ones that feel really dense and you kind of have to slog through they're going to be really um especially for the old testament they're going to be really interested in questions of of authorship and you know when the text gets brought together and some of that may seem like why are we having this huge conversation on this um as you move through they they focus more on application and that may be kind of where where we get more interested but we we want to use the commentaries to really give us good meat of interpretation in the text so those technical commentaries can can teach you so much but it is true that they can be harder to slog through so maybe having a good mixture that you try to use will help you to enjoy the process more but also push you to challenge you as well as let you kind of be in your comfort zone at different times as well depending on your own personality dr warren i know loves the technical commentary i do but i will say this i mean i love them because i feel like they finally helped me get the questions i still have when i was a new pastor before i went to seminary i engaged in more technical and critical commentaries and i couldn't get i just couldn't understand them they had a conversation that it was above the level that i could engage and i remember those days and so just want to echo that if that's the case use the resource you'll actually read and don't feel like you need to you know because you were told go to something that's not helping you at all uh so here's an analogy that might help uh when i was thinking about purchasing a particular property for us to live in my family to live in we're we only have renting right now but we're thinking about this one property and i said can we add to it it's smaller than you know by far than what my family is living in can we add to it can we build up at a floor a construction working friend of mine said well a lot of people think they could just add on to the top of something that's already there but what they don't know is that structure was not engineered to bear extra weight i just love that phrase it just was not engineered to bear extra weight we would have to drill down and create new footings that are designed to bear the weight to build up in other words you can't just add square footage and think it will be that price as if you're building on the ground you're going to have to make sure it's it bear it could bear the weight of what you're wanting to build on top of it some of those commentaries because you don't know what's underneath the surface it's harder for you to build on top so the farther i get away from what the original text was the less weight i can put on it so and that's why i do love the technical commentaries they help me drill new footing i got an idea i read my uh you know my translation that i love i found a structural relationship i came up with an interpretation and i'm realizing shamanically i want to lean on that thing i want to spend 15 minutes right there okay i better dig down so i get my interlinear i do my word study and then i can engage a technical commentary on that word study and just really narrow in on that passage in that paragraph of the commentary and that way i can make sure that that footing is going to bear the weight i'm trying to put over the top of that thing and that might be a way of helping you understand a way of thinking about it that might make sense and let me just say also to make sure you understand we see you for our international friends who are saying i can't get to that commentary i can't get that front material i'll mention another extra biblical resource that we don't usually mention in seminary we just don't mention it google i use google so often especially for geographical stuff that's relatively objective i type in the place into google click images and find a detailed map that helps me see it or i'll say distance in between jericho and jerusalem i don't need a commentary to do that i can find that on google maps or i might find an article that's a respected article and you can actually tell by what they cite etc but don't don't choose just blogs but a respected article on a historical background piece on google well that's free and if you can access that in your country then you have a free resource in your phone in your pocket then don't be afraid to use those you just have to be discerning then be a discerning internet user about which things are really just thin and you can't build on top of them because they didn't drill down and which things you can build on top of because they drilled way down and they've got a good solid footing in the original well that's very helpful um and i know this keeps coming up talking about word studies and um that piece i'm going to to guess that not everybody in class um maybe not most people in class are proficient in the biblical languages um now sometimes you know we can we can look up a word you know say okay hey i got this word here and i think i know uh what this word means based on the breakdown of how that word and then we can find ourselves maybe getting in some um some some ditches um or maybe just kind of overshooting um sometimes so so where do we what do we do how do we how do we utilize some of these resources and i'm assuming that maybe in the next video we'll get a chance to go a little bit um deeper into this but if someone is not proficient in the biblical languages are there any guidelines that can help someone if they want to go and um understand you know okay this word means you know this here and i want to use that in my sermon and it can help draw out meaning in a way that's very helpful what are some guidelines that um that you you both could give that can help us to be responsible in our usage of some of these resources and understanding some of the biblical languages that was a mouthful i'm gonna let you go dr vertius this is your zone this is for your genius one thing i i think it's so important um and i and i emphasize this for um students who are even even on their first day of greek class in hebrew class you know when when they're thinking oh great now i'm going to get it now here's the key the key that's going to unlock up the door of all the mysteries um um it's not um if it would we wouldn't have any more mysteries because people have known these languages for a long time um so i think it's important as we preach to not to um create the illusion of of mystification like oh i have this secret knowledge over here of this language that you really need to know to be able to understand the way i understand you want to be really careful not to do that so i really try to avoid you know what this word really means um i actually prefer instead of calling them word studies because our ultimate goal is not really to figure out what the word means i mean the word means you know go go to a dictionary go to a lexicon for that and and lexicographers can tell us all the different nuances of what the word means i like to call them context studies and really your goal is is there another context in which this word is used in the biblical text that helps me to have deeper understanding to illuminate the passage for eyes or my context where i started in some way and sometimes that's all that's all you need to do in a word study in a context make a connection between two contexts now you can sometimes make a connection between you know this word gets used in lots of context a certain way and lots of other contexts another certain way and our use is mostly in this big context i mean you can do that too i mean really when you can get it down from one context to another context it's a great example of this in the book you're reading for this class eugene peterson eat this book his idea of meditation and it's the it's the hebrew word where at one point it's used for a dog gnawing on its bone right and that's the idea of meditation you keep going back to it and going back to it and working it and working it thinking about so he took one context and connected it to another context that's all he did right there um and i think i think that's really the most effective way just spend time um looking through all the you could biblehub.com will allow you to pull that list using your strong number of all the all the places where that word is used um this you know this is where you know using a non-original language word study can get you into trouble because sometimes there are lots of of hebrew or greek words that get translated with one word over here so you're trying to get back into the greek or hebrew and make sure you're making connections of the same the actual same word in those contexts um but then try to make one connection go through as slowly as you can um and when you find a context oh man that really helps me understand something back here stop and make go make that connection that's one that's wonderful i don't think i've ever heard that put that well that and i absolutely love it um just one little little piece with that that i think might put this in a framework that we'd understand so sometimes we start talking about tools and modern tools or whatever and people get nervous and think well wait a second the great leaders of the church did they use those tools and you know i should just have the spirit and the bible and and so this might help the the great reformers taught us that we want to practice scripture interpreting scripture and so if you think of it the way dr bernie has just put it it's really just scripture interpreting scripture we're going and looking at all the places but we're doing it more faithfully than we might otherwise because otherwise it's a second language interpreting a second language and sometimes we've equated things that aren't equated like in english the word run could mean physically running i did that this morning it could mean the dryer is running which mine no longer is for getting it replaced it could be my nose is running because sometimes when i get emotional my nose starts to run and those are three very different meanings extremely different meanings and then if we say well you're running away with this well now we need something even new that might not translate one to one so we've got to be careful that we're building on that solid footing so when you when then when you find the right connections and then you're able to allow scripture to interpret scripture so here's another example um and james says that he he elijah again he prayed earnestly for the reign to come well the same it's in praying he prayed something like that in praying he prayed as the literal so that same phrase is found for jesus in the garden of gethsemane in praying he prayed you know sweat drops of blood falling to the ground it kind of praying elijah's fearing for his life elijah's fearing for all of his reputation all of his ministry all the reputation and glory of god as well i mean in praying he prayed now we have a different picture of prayer what do you mean earnestly well now we have two pictures that support each other right and and confirm that this is the right interpretation now we have it in context not just in that tiny passage but in the biblical narrative that there's a way of praying that crosses over both testaments that god has always blessed when their earnest praying is deeply in line with the will of god and the will of god puts the person itself at risk then there's earnest prayer so you see i want to preach that again but that that's what a context study can do it gets you to something you think i need to preach that because it feels so true and so much weight can be borne by it yeah that's the that's much different than the let me just go and just look up what that word means oh this means that and then you kind of give the you know the breakdown of you know that word but you've not considered the word usage and how that has been used and that's really uh really part of the whole interpretive process like you're saying um using scripture to interpret scripture and um being able to evaluate in a sense right this word how this word has been used in in different parts so this is this is really helpful i think this is going to hopefully give some confidence as we begin whether someone finds himself being a uh quote-unquote bible nerd that's uh lives in books like these or someone who maybe feels a little bit intimidated you know when they think about this um this idea that um hopefully this helps to demystify um some of um some of the usages so so here's what i'm going to do i'm i want to close here um and this is kind of the pastoral heart in me that that really wants to do this but if you had just one encouragement for the person who does feel overwhelmed they're not in their eyes in their own estimation they're not a bible scholar and yet they've taken the big step of faith in being a part of this seminary but they look at all of these resources and you might even be looking up what in the world is it in a linear you know you might be you might be looking that up and just double checking i think i know what a concordance is but what's the difference between that and um you know is that the same as um in a linear is that the commentary what's the difference between a commentary concordance if you could just speak to somebody who perhaps just in case there's someone who's watching this that feels a little bit intimidated at this whole process what would you say to them because you all are people who i would consider very much bible scholars and people who've been in this for quite some time but you also have um pastoral hearts so what would you say as we get ready to close well i don't i i don't know if this is the right spirit so i'll go first so dr bernius can fix it uh the proverb says all hard work brings abundance yes but mere talk leads only to poverty and that may not sound like an encouragement but i would say i think it's true in my life anyway every step of hard work i've done has added to that abundance that i now feel like i have hand me a text i can preach it right now well i was not there 20 years ago i was scared every week i was burning out i was going to counseling for my burnout i was exhausted it was wearing on me i was preaching sunday morning twice i was preaching sunday night a different sermon i was preaching wednesday night a different sermon i was leading a small group content fatigue was real but the hard work slowly built up to abundance once i got the anxiety out of the way and learned some ways of doing it that i try to share with people now so first that's the first thing but this is the what i mean by that is this so you might have heard this phrase anything you have to learn to do you learn by doing and so you just have to start doing it and and then we learn then by space and repetition so you do it space repetition you do it space repetition you do it space repetition first time i sat down on the piano i couldn't play scale chopsticks looked hard so can i play a b flat scale both hands now yeah and i can get the fingering right and i'm not even a musician but it just took time space and repetition and it felt that way for me with these tools if they feel unfamiliar it's because you haven't used them if you've used them twice don't and it didn't feel familiar it didn't feel easy of course not you've only used it twice it so you do it space repetition and you keep telling yourself all hard work brings abundance so do it again day do it space repetition and if every time i shoot for abundance and do the hard work it takes to get there before long com don't commentary critical commentary you know all those languages uh concordance interlinear all that stuff sounds familiar and you can go quickly through bible hub quickly through the sources you love quickly through the historical background you can do that strategic skimming it gets faster and faster and faster and faster but not if you don't do the work if you keep skipping it that's just you know mere talk we just talked about it in seminary don't be surprised that you didn't learn if you just talk about it in a class you didn't learn anything you only learn if you do it space do it again space do it again that's great thank you dr ward dr bernice and i would say our our bible classes at seminary in large part are designed to begin to give you what dr ward is talking about that space to you know get some very big picture um view of of biblical books and sections of the bible so that you you have some of that but it also um helps you to practice that going deep but you're you're not going to exegete every chapter of the pentateuch in my class you should be amenning or something right now right i mean that's going to be your lifetime you'll stop and go i mean i'm guessing dr taylor in his in his sermon series on numbers this fall is going to be exegeting a passage maybe he's never preached on before maybe he's never preached every i'm guessing he's never preached every chapter and numbers and there's something there um there to preach so this this is a lifelong journey i'll give you two names from um well the book of exodus from the pentateuch vessel endo holyoff if you know those two names those are the two skilled workers the skilled craftsman who built the tabernacle interesting word study the word skilled is the hebrew word home which can also be translated wisdom how do you get wisdom well how do you become a skilled craftsman you you start out as the as the apprentice who sweeps the floor every day and your skilled craftsman tells you next day come back in sweep the floor again but you're you're learning and after however long he puts a tool in your hand and lets you do a you know one little bit of the finishing of one edge and teaches you one technique and through time and practice and observation and learning and growing ultimately you gain the wisdom and the skill to be the master craftsman and we are all on that journey we just all happen to be in different places at different moments so what you do today that good work that you put your hand to in studying god's word and faithfully bringing in tools alongside your deep study of his word that is a step in in that journey of becoming that skilled laborer in in the field of of expounding and understanding and exegeting faithfully god's word o holy of by the way means the father's tent i wonder if that did a nickname he got later as he was well because one of the tabernacle makers or if or athena that was prophetic i don't know i like it as a nickname so i'm imagining that um right now the students are getting really excited about their old testament classes about come up right around the corner here because i'm actually excited i was like can i roll in this how does that work but um but for both of you thank you so much and for for you all who are watching this your exegetical tools paper is coming up so i want to encourage you to go ahead and listen to this and then watch our video where dr ward is going to walk you through um some examples of how to use an online an online program that's free everybody likes that word it is free if you have access to your internet and so please be on the lookout for that video as well it'll help you with completing this paper and hopefully even beyond just this assignment it will help you for a lifelong of bible reading teaching and preaching so thank you both very much and we'll join back here again pretty soon take care