Transcript for:
Security breakdown during Trump's rally

how big of an intelligence failure was this well it's you you have to think of it more as a logistical failure as opposed to an intelligence failure this was a breakdown in in what should be very Standard Security protocols and look the Secret Service does that very well but clearly right and you always have to i' caveat this with one thing you have to always wait for an investigation to to finish right they're currently in the middle of their own investigation as to what the hell happened um and obviously as soon as this happens everybody on social media is an executive protection expert right so everybody's talking about you know exactly how this happened well well you know what they I so I think it's important not to get out over your skis but in a situation like this clearly it would be insane to say that there weren't uh failures there weren't breakdowns here and even people with no experience can can look at this and say I'm sorry how how did you not have somebody up on top of a roof that had line of sight to the stage to the rally event uh and so typically look when when something like this happens and I I've done countless you know Advanced plannings and security assessments and risk and threat assessments and and and typically when something happens like this it's not one thing right it's it's a it's a series of of mistakes or misak steps that compound and then you end up with this this goat rope that never should have happened um so they're doing an investigation uh Congress of course has called for an investigation I wouldn't expect anything to come from that um because Washington DC is where all investigations go to die and uh but the uh the bureau is is involved uh Secret Service obviously doing their own hot wash uh and they sit underneath the Department of Homeland Security you know so if DHS does a review fine but there's so much video footage of this right and it happened in real time with so many people watching and so many different angles that I think in this case unlike sometimes sometimes you get investigations of of a of a of an event and you don't get much transparency right because internally they're trying to figure out okay how do we improve this well you don't want to necessarily talk about all that activities because you're informing people who might have nefarious intent but here it was it was clear for everyone to see that there was a significant number of issues and problems who responsibility who does the buck ultimately stop with when we're talking about this Homeland Security Secret Service local law enforcement well I think what you're going to find likely is first of all in terms of who has Primacy on the ground it's a secret service right so they established a security perimeter and then according to at least early reports and what what secret service is saying is then they designated local law enforcement is having control outside that designated security Zone which included the building where the shooter uh took up position but that's you know ultimately it's the secret service's responsibility so they should have obviously said okay so what are you doing in relation to those buildings that have line of sight and if local law enforcement had said well we've got a we've got a couple of unarmed officers that are patrolling the ground and you know interacting with the attendees down the then you'd say okay well how about you give me a State Trooper or one of your local officers up on that rooftop and that one over there any building right uh that's got line of sight uh and you post somebody up there just cover it down that's secret service's ultimate responsibility even if you know the theoretically okay on paper this area over here is under the control of local authorities so there is a procedural problem there's a command and control problem there's a Communications problem during the course of this rally I think you'll also find there was some uh command and control issues in terms of the ability for the sniper or the counter sniper team on site and they had a couple of them up there uh to act right and there was probably I don't don't know this I'm speculating right but I'm speculating based on experience from past events that you know there may have been a lag time in getting the you know the the go noo figured out in terms of taking a shot on the on the target uh there may have been problems at the top of Secret Service in terms of what did they allow for as a security package for former president Trump when you say that you mean the uh number and quality of the people that were on the ground yeah you've got a kind of got a standard you know former president Security package uh because they get coverage for life after they they finish their their time and you could easily argue that perhaps the package for Trump given that he's now the presumptive nominee for the November election that clearly he he draws a lot of heat should should have been beefed up should have been beefed up and look also look he it was under the Trump Administration when you know we tagged uh suani um and the Iranians and their various proxies are still very upset about that and we know that they've been looking at various opportunities to try to Target individuals they feel responsible so there were a variety of reasons why you could look and go yeah the package for for for former president Trump needs to be more robust than say what we would normally allocate and so that may be I I don't I'm not saying it is I'm just saying that may be an issue where now you've got more of a of a of a procedural problem with management right um and then you've got the whole other issue of just general discourse if you demonize somebody on either side and call them Hitler um fascist you know intent on destroying democracy um a a threat to the nation as President Biden's referred to him even the day before the shooting um probably you know inciting some irrational person who you know may not be able to process all that as hyper right they're take it literally this is a point that telsy gabard made where she said that how can you expect someone to not try and stop Hitler if you keep calling them Hitler would you not go back in time and try and kill Hitler and if literally Hitler there was a a magazine that had him looking like the few a number of magazines that have had him basically in the same uh um poster style that Adolf Hitler did in the past you know how many more analogies do you need to draw and it's one of these things where until the repercussions and the consequences of doing that become kinetic everyone thinks that it's just a lot well Trump's bombastic he's gregarious he says crazy things we need to push back with the same sort of technology that he uses which is words and and imagery uh and then someone takes it up a notch yeah look I mean it's it's it's clear and people always say ah it's what about isn't but it's clear it's it's a problem on both sides right on on the edges of both sides there's all this rhetoric and hyperbole so there's no doubt about that but you're right look if the new Republican that was one of the magazines that had the the sort of this propaganda poster of of trump as Hitler um they're throwing these things out there and I I think rational people look at that and go okay man that's over the top it's rhetoric hyperbole I I get it you guys are using this as a campaign strategy but there are a lot of people out there who aren't going to process it that way yeah and disappear down these rabbit holes so there's a there's a lot of layers here so when you say who's responsible I you know it depends on at what altitude level of magnification you want to look at it from yeah yeah yeah where does the where does the Domino begin one of the things that I did read was that there was a lot of Homeland Security contractors on site as opposed to Secret Service agents that there was a more heavy Reliance on local law enforcement than you would have done typically I'm going to guess that this is uh the package the security detail package as you mentioned uh just being more diluted than it should be you have some talent and some of the talent I guess is questionable based on the video footage um but then you also have this sort of uh the outer regions which are maybe not even more as competent and more of that was done by contractors and more of that was done by local law enforcement than typical yeah look the election season any election season right but particularly now when everything's so heated and both sides have been lobbing hand grenades to each other for quite some time it's it's a difficult time for secret service right they're just there's they're stretched you know uh thin because there's so much to do and they and their resources are working constantly so yes they draw on but they typically draw on even you know when when it's not an election season they draw on local authorities uh and there was a significant Presence at the rally of uh Butler County uh police and um you know there's going to be some other issues about you know there was an encounter between one of those police officers who you know attempted to go up and interact with the shooter and then you know um didn't when the shooter pointed a gun at him uh and then you know the the firing started shortly thereafter but look there's a real breakdown there right because um you've got a moment where obviously this guy has enough time to go to the building try to get up to the top of the building to interact where are the coms with with the know counter sniper team saying I'm going up on the top of the building to interact with somebody who apparently has a weapon because lots of people on the ground saw him and alerted the authorities so there's there's again as I mentioned it's it's never just one thing it's a series of of problems usually that contribute to a security breakdown it's interesting I I I get what you mean about uh during an election cycle there's more people more places more checks need to be done but it's not like you don't know this right you know reliably it's going to happen in four years time and four years after that and four years after that so all of this could have been prepared for in advance whether it's training whether it's recruitment whether it's whatever you need in terms of Staffing I remember reading not so long ago as well after Trump's indictment conviction whatever it is uh that there had been some suggestion to completely resend the security detail from him or at the very least to dial it back as some kind of recompense that he needed to pay for now being a felon EXA exactly yeah that was that was a move in in Congress by uh uh I think it was uh Congressman uh Jeff maybe I don't want to get caught with the wrong name but um one or a handful had I think kind of floated the idea that well probably somebody who's been convicted shouldn't have Secret Service protection it's an asinine idea I mean it was a completely asinine idea because he's still a former president pres and he's still the presumptive nominee but they were trying to score some political points right and that's that's been part of the problem you get you're getting a lot of dysfunctional and irrational Behavior because um you know the an element within the Democrat Party has this this uh I I don't even how to describe that the the hatred for Trump then again on the on the right side on the extreme right obviously you've got this same sort of rhetoric that goes and and and demonizes the Democrats and Biden and all this it just uh it's not a it's not a good place for the nation to be obviously given what can happen in what we saw happen on Saturday it's I at least at the moment a little bit asymmetric that only one side has control over how much protection an ex-president gets and you know it's so it just seems to me it seems to me like the amount of protection should be proportionate to the Potential Threat and you know regardless of whether you like don't like Trump he's a pretty big Target I mean you know you don't need to do much to Biden to cause him to fall over but you know Trump's a a much much loga Target I'm gonna let that one go um but uh yeah no you're not you're not wrong uh and that's why you do uh risk and threat assessments on a constant basis right because the risks the threats they change um they can increase they can decrease and you're always doing that whether you're talking about executive protection uh you know for political candidate whether you're talking about you know what sort of level of protection you provide to a facility or it doesn't matter so you're absolutely right and they should have been looking at this now they they did say that they there there has been some comment that the Secret Service did uh heavy up the uh the Security package to some degree back in June I believe for for Trump um but it's only now that they've um approved uh Secret Service protection for Robert F Kennedy right and yeah you know that's an indication that really what the Democrats wanted was they just wanted him to go away they didn't want they almost didn't want to acknowledge that Kennedy was a a candidate out there dude so I've been to I went to dinner with an R with RFK at a friend's house maybe about a year ago then I went to a a rally thing of his in Austin about six months ago and then I went to another Meetup with him about two months ago and each one of those he's made it very very plain I have no security detail I have no uh extra special care from the government despite the fact that I come from the most assassinated family in American political history yeah it was insane it you know and it has been and but I do think it was it was essentially for a very uh political reason which was we don't want to acknowledge that he's a candidate we just want him to go away can you I mean you know giving giving him the detail is almost like a stamp of approval in some way this is a legitimate person yeah it's it's it's it's kind of that formal ing of his candidacy in a way right that's a lot of people process it that way they see the secred service detail and they imag you know okay he's a presidential candidate right and and they were so afraid of him taking oxygen out of the room um but now as a result of what happened on Saturday they've they've uh reviewed I assume they're going to you know increase the package for uh president Trump they've approved a package for for Robert F Kennedy um you know they've been looking at I'm I'm in Milwaukee where they have the Republican National Convention they're you know they immediately got on the ground here and started reviewing uh the security go figure I mean that should have been done look this is not there's there's there's a a methodology here right and you can have little bits and pieces that that change based on what the event is but the standard practice the standard protocols really don't change that much and so more than anything there were there was a command and control and a Communications breakdown between Secret Service and and local authorities that I would I I I believe an investigation is going to prove contributed mightily to what happened on Saturday what will the process from here internally be to investigate I imagine it's just going to be a [ __ ] nightmare to try and work out who's culpable what happened how's this going to occur whilst also doing the investigation which requires resources from the very thing that you're trying to now beef up given the failure that just occurred during a time when you need the more than ever but also their time is trying to be split working out what the [ __ ] happened yeah well that yeah and you raised a really good point and that's where that's where a congressional investigation can really kind of muck up the works get in the way because you know they you know they get out there and they start sucking up oxygen that really needs to be spent you know doing operations but uh look it's important uh right after after this go rope uh you know internally Secret Service was doing a hot wash um what's this made stop using these words what do you mean no I mean they were they basically just uh doing a an after action review of you know what happened immediately in the aftermath of this thing um but there's a lot of moving Parts as you pointed out look it's there's DHS Personnel there's the local law enforcement um it's not a good sign that so soon after this event there's already some finger pointing going on um saying well that was their Zone uh not ours Butler County saying well that you know doesn't matter secret service has Primacy so they should you know be telling us what to do in a sense so that's not necessarily a good indication uh but you know I think this thing has got to play out in uh in public in part because you know government agencies whether it's the Secret Service or the bureau the CIA whatever they you know they they've lost a lot of credibility uh which is kind of a painful thing to admit um but they've lost a lot of credibility over the recent past and so you know one of those things one of those ways I think you build back some level of trust is to be more transparent and and again they don't have anything to lose because everybody was starting at zero yeah they're starting well I meant I meant because everybody was watching they can afford to be more transparent but but okay I take your point yeah uh so you know going into the rest of this year do you think these sorts of threats are over or are there more serious risks to come as we get toward the presidential election uh well the the threat's not over for sure you know um that never goes away right you never get this down to to zero it's not how the game is played so they have to approach every event whether it's the RNC happening outside or whether it's um any other campaign rally uh the DNC which will be taking place in Chicago uh they've got to approach every event in the same fashion right and yes they'll be more uh under the spotlight you know from the public and and from you know their own agencies and the various people involved but that's a good thing right it it kind of refocuses the mind um you know I'm not saying that the event on Saturday was a good thing I'm just saying that it's going to one of the one of the one of the end results will be everyone's going to be a little bit more on their game um because they're going to be reminded in a very terrible way what's at stake You could argue they shouldn't have to be reminded but you know you do these events and you do these events and the thing about executive protection is it can be a grind mentally it can be a real grind right why well you're you're standing out outside a door you know Secret Service details there's a lot of hurry up and wait you know it's it can be kind of mind-numbing in a way right there's you know then you got a movement okay fine now I got to go do another advance and I'm doing the advance and there there's a lot lot of routine a lot of you know rote which you know can can be a bit again it can be a bit mind-numbing um which inevitably causes people to pay less attention which then allows small errors to to kick up yeah I was speaking to uh Tim Kennedy I got him to break down the body language of the uh counter sniper uh from the Secret Service that was on the roof and he's you know looking he's coming up off his glass he's going back down then he flinches and then he goes back down G and you know he Tim's assessment was he thought that was a person who'd never been in a firefight before um that that was someone who potentially hadn't seen Combat Action but another thing to consider is that this isn't training you haven't just rocked up C full of caffeine you know on the range with your buddy that's your Spotter and I know when I'm going to need to shoot you've been there for how many hours sat up there doing this thing you know that sort of endurance um and as it continues to go on but again that it's seems to me that all of that can be fixed just by more volume and higher Quality Personnel you know if you've got someone that's doing the night shift don't make them do the day shift you know can have sufficient resources that you don't need to to drain everyone like that yeah I think that's absolutely right you've got to have you've got to have sufficient Staffing and and you know again talking about how much of a grind it can be uh it's not the sort of business where you can just you know you know just just work through people until they're exhausted right you've got people have to be at a at an Optimum level um all the time and so that requires you to be able to work through a number of shifts uh of rotations and so you have to have those resources but look I and and and training you know you've got to you've got to have constant training um and and that costs money and time and so sometimes those things get kicked aside I don't I'm not saying they did I'm just saying that you know sometimes in in in the world of government you know certain things can be pushed aside and in of other things that aren't really as operationally beneficial How likely do you think it is that the heads of Homeland Security or the Secret Service are going to end up getting fired or disciplined for this well I don't think DHS uh my orcus I don't think isn't going anywhere he's he seems to be uh you know coded in Teflon um because you know you could argue he should have been fired for the you know for the the lack of management of the US Southern border for the past three years but I don't think he's going anywhere uh Kimberly cheel over at at uh Secret Service look she you know she's been there what almost 30 years maybe longer she was you know an agent and a supervising agent for 27 years finished up then went to I I forget uh Pepsi I think where she was Global Security director and then she got called in she had worked on Vice President Biden's detail years and years ago and so that who knows maybe that was part of the connection but she came back in to run the Secret Service is she going to be kicked out I don't think so um Washington DC is not typically a place where people get fired um why why is that just nepotism and people know people and people know things and you scratch my back yeah I think you know look you know people people get reassigned at lower levels you know if if there's if if things go sideways um typically you know that that [ __ ] rolls downhill and uh so you may get you know mid-level officers or agents you know that get reassigned or put on ice but typically people don't you know at higher levels you know they're not expected to pay the price I don't know why uh but it's a little bit like um it's a little bit like this problem with with the Civil discourse and people talking about how we have to turn the temperature down right well that requires self-awareness and it requires a willingness to accept some responsibility for where we got to now right because they were part of the problem but I don't think politicians necessarily um or political appointees tend to be you know loaded for bear with self-awareness or willingness to accept responsibility what do you think happens to the political discourse moving forward from here how do you think it changes or doesn't I I think give it another uh I don't know 15 minutes um and we're going to be right back we're going to revert to the mean I I I I have no doubt uh that there there will be a short period of time uh including I I think including Trump's uh nominating speech at the RNC I think you know that's going to be more uh dialed back than people would imagine coming from Trump he said that he re he wrote a brand new one yeah for it yeah and I'm sure he did look he's got look it's I don't think you can go through that an experience like that and and not have some moment of reflection right um now whether it lasts whether he can change his stripes I don't know whether the Democrats can change their stripes who knows you know look they they ran a campaign based on Trump as a fascist and he's going to destroy democracy and it was working for them right it was energizing at least their their base and and I think they felt like that's the narrative they were going to run with for the next few months I don't think I don't think either side's really going to dial it back significantly for any period of time so yes there'll be this there'll be a moment but then I think everyone's going to kind of revert back to the normal jump back in their trenches and you know we'll be right back to that Biden said or at least the Dem said that they'd turned off their campaign ads for a little while sort of a show of a mark of respect I imagine that if you'd kept running those there'd be some in there that are absolutely toned deaf for a guy that just got shot um but yet there is a big question can you say that Trump is Hitler one day and then the next Next Day wish him well given that he was just shot it seem yeah I know I know he's hit blowing With the Wind thank God he was only grazed um yeah I it's it's a it's a yeah it's a really good question but I think what they're counting on is the attention span of the of Americans maybe um you know everybody's so busy just trying to get by and feed their families and do their work and kind of whatever and they're all staring at Tik Tock anyway um so I I think they honestly think yeah sure we can we can get away with this incredible pivot from he's going to terminate the Constitution and and take away all your rights and he's you know the biggest threat to the nation and and then turn around and go well we sure I talked to Donald and I told him I [Laughter] was so I but I think they feel like you know they can get away with it because they've done it [ __ ] hell yeah selective Amnesia of the entire populace so yeah I'm glad that you brought up Tik Tok your favorite uh topic of discussion I this is the first time that I've observed actually I didn't even do this with January 6 because with January 6th I actually watched mostly Fox News CNN coverage I was watching things be streamed live uh but on Saturday this happened just as I was going for dinner here in Montana and I for the first time time realized just how important X Twitter is as a social media it was a genuine utility for everybody that wanted to know what was going on and I wasn't I'm not going to Facebook to find out this information I'm not going to Tik Tok to find out this information I'm not going to Instagram to find out this information I'm not going to the mainstream media to find out this information like mostly peaceful but fiery assassination attempt from C or whatever the headline was yeah there were some headlines there were some headlines that he was pulled from the rally because he fell down and Secret Service interrupt Trump rally yeah yeah and or there was there was a New York Times uh article just today that said you know that referred to the the assassination attempt as uh that somebody shot at the president during a rally and you think okay so so I I I agree with you you know I think X has kind of proven it it its usefulness in this event over the weekend yeah I was I was uh I spent probably more time monitoring what was happening there than I think pretty much anything else although I wasf I was perfecting a new Tik Tock dance so I had to that wasn't easy but it's gonna be a hit I tell you what else I didn't see much of um I didn't see much sort of crazy misinformation uh wild accusations I haven't seen much that people have really needed to roll back now is that the um is that the benefit of the platform or is that simply just because of what users were talking about um you know you you you can't promote a tweet which lies about something that somebody doesn't actually post you can only actually promulgate whatever messages people say um but yeah I was I was really impressed I was looking at x and going holy [ __ ] like we need this thing and I've not I've not that sense really before it's just like oh it's you know if you've got truth social on one side and you've got X kind of more toward the middle and then you've got threads on the other side you know it's just it's just another one of these but it yeah it made me think uh differently I think yeah I think the it it takes a little while for the crazy to come out right so I have seen some conspiracy theories that you know this was an inside job you know and and uh you know and then of course all the all the you know the sort of the armchair executive protection Specialists you know talking about exactly you know how what went wrong five minutes after the event right now they okay well at least let the dust settle a little bit um before the blood up off the off the stage canas before might be might be good but no the look The the imagery was amazing um the like him or hate him right there's a lot of people on both sides of that for Trump but you have to you have to think good God right I mean he the the fact that he stood up had the wherewithal to kind of like face the crowd you know give him that indication that he was fine and he was you know I mean that's those instincts right you can't teach that right that's that's uh kind of in there somewhere and so I think that was that was amazing right again people who hate him are GNA say it was terrible he shouldn't have like shook his fist I did hear CNN was upset with him because he shook his fist at the crowd and and fight and they were like well that seems inappropriate stoking he's stoking wartime rhetoric he just got shot he just got shot just got shot they're upset because he's like shaking his fist and he's then they're like well that's that's that's not appropri inappropriate inappropriate to get aggressive when you've been when you've just been shot yeah dude I I said this to Tim look I have I sort of respect Trump in that I find him an interesting orator and his sort of staying power has been has been impressive but I've never before said that I admired him uh you know I I don't know whether it's because he's kind of like a WWE character which he actually also happened to be briefly for a little while um or he's super gregarious and he's out there and he's all of these things and he's like older and he's from a different culture and all of these things lots and lots and lots of things right and I saw that video and then I saw that imagery and I was like that is [ __ ] badass that is a you there is no amount of media training or EXA sort of top down dictatorial rhetoric building and image sort of um promoting that you can do to make being shot then standing up and putting your fist in the air and going fight fight fight that is him that's his character yeah that is his character we saw everything stripped back who is the guy like if you want to know who someone is shoot them in the ear right well let's say okay now for for those of you watching home that's that's you know let's let's step back on that guidance but um okay kids uh no but I I take your point and also the the Striking thing is just the the the the the contrast right between that and and what we had been talking about on y non-stop right on Friday and Thursday and Wednesday before that which was feess fragility feebleness the mental accurity issues for and so that that contrast I think is going to hit really hard for some time now uh going through this election and obviously you know the Republicans will use that imagery um you know but I think they have for the rest of time they have to be but they do have to be careful right I mean just you don't want to you know because look you know we there was a fatality there um you know people maybe more yeah maybe more and so uh I think they they're going to want to so I'm hoping what this does does is I hope it dials down the discourse I hope it keeps things for a little bit of time again I'm cynical but you know civil and I hope it makes the Trump campaign more reflective right about their strategy and their tone and the way that they approach things what what does what does that mean be most specific for me well I think look everybody talks about everybody talks about how you got to win the moderates right you got to win the the Independence you know if if you're going to win it all in November and I think um if if if what we got was the Trump of old right he's not winning those people right because they already left him in 2020 that's why he didn't win right because they were like I'm tired of the chaos I'm tired of the noise I'm tired of the you know all of this and and uh so I think that if this makes him more or the campaign more reflective and they say you know what know let's let's let's continue to dial it back the Democrats are going to do whatever they're going to do if they get back to throwing hand grenades okay fine let them but let's be the let's be the contrast right I think that's the way that you get and and then just focus on policies just talk about policies nothing else right well you already had a a little bit more of a pivot to a slightly more Statesman like version of trump during the debate and then after the debate you know there was no posting about Biden there was no silly tweet or what equivalent there was there was none of that silence was his greatest weapon for the first time ever absolutely absolutely when when your enem is imploding don't don't get in the way don't get in the way yeah precisely um talk to me about what you think this does to Trump's image among the American populace how do you think that this incident changes it if if at all well I I don't know that it uh look I I I think it I think it will make a difference with some who were undecided not necessar I'm not talking necessarily about you know uh Independents and moderates who are focused on politics but I think those people who you know maybe don't spend a lot of time thinking about politics but we're still kind of undecided maybe maybe unregistered orre I wasn't I wasn't sure if I was gonna vote at all yeah I I think that that and and part of that will be that contrast between this guy standing up after he shot and what they saw during that debate if they happen to see Clips or they watched some of the debate I think that contrast will influence a certain group um I think if he can if he can I I don't know if statesman's the right word but I think if he can be more moderate then and speak to the issues and just stay there then I think that can influence those moderates and independents perhaps that that are a little more focused on politics and did abandoned uh abandon the the campaign the last time around so I think it can have an impact uh look the Democrats you know they must be amazed right now right because all that conversation about Biden that's that's nowhere to be found right that's done at least for now people are not talking about Biden they're not talking about his feebleness as mental accurity is he still fit to serve and so I think the White House is if anything is taking a breath and going oh thank God I I I'm not sure that so I I think that I get what you mean the it's a good day for bad news or it's a good day to be scile I suppose um but the problem is that this recent shooting assassination attempt is framed against the uh Foundation that we already had everyone still already has that in the back of their mind we know the fragility that we've seen of the existing president the fact that he doesn't have that sort of Gusto and that get up that that we want to show from a leader up against China up against Russia Etc uh and then you have this even if you're not looking at it anymore it's like just being in a cold bath and getting into a hot one you're like holy [ __ ] this is different so I I I do think that that's going to be there I also I think the more mature and uh standoffish that the Republicans can be when it comes to messaging around this I think that's going to benefit them more for the first time ever this is one of my George who I'm traveling with at the moment told me this yesterday for the first time ever Trump has a victim card he's never had a victim card before Trump has that's he has a [ __ ] victim card yeah you well although I would argue that the base right his his loyal loyal supporters view him as as the the Supreme victim right just being victimized by laware and the the Biden Administration and so I think that group always looks at him in that regard right you know look what they're doing to him again and now he's being shot in the that shot in in the [ __ ] a well so another interesting thing is how much damage does this incident do to the left moral High Ground around not being the violent ones yeah I don't think they care I think they just they'll they'll just I've never seen any Awareness on their part that that could be an issue right it's just sort of like that mostly peaceful antifa riots and you know burnings and and violence I I think that they just brushed that aside and so I don't know that um they're worried about that idea they all jumped on the notion they were they were they were really word smithing but they jumped on the notion in their statements about the uh assassination attempt that the shooter was a registered Republican and uh and I think you know and by the way why do all these guys look the same I don't I don't understand um they you know and I didn't I didn't say that my oldest boy said that he said what the hell is it with with with people like what what are they what what is the commonality you know his point was maybe they need to do a study of all these people and find that was that what was that thing that was super racist and done in the 0 was it freny or physiognomy or whatever it was something like that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah like face shape as being indicative what what do we what what do we know about the shooter you know uh what 20 years old from the from the area bethl bethl park in Pennsylvania um you know I've only heard a few comments from people who claim that they knew him in high school and those are typical comments quiet loner bullied um you know his dad purchased Legally Legally apparently the long gun that was used on Saturday by his kid um some six months ago um and you know so there's not a there's not a lot of information out there it's interesting the bureaus got his obviously they got his electronic devices they took his phone down to quanico and you know once again they're they're you know struggling it according to reports I don't know whether that's the case or not but they say they're struggling to unlock it um of a 20year old loner from green or whatever it is yeah so I think it's it's uh you know we we'll get more detail but that's one of those areas right where you have to be I always hate to see people speculating about motives because that's one of the things in terms of an investigation regardless of what type of shooting event it is that you really need to let the facts you know come to light before you start talking and in Earnest about oh you know what the motivation of the shooter was so bizarre man there's definitely I think another discussion to be had around what is the training of local law enforcement you know we've had it before I was watching this documentary about um there's a name for them what's the name for police officers that don't enter firefights even though they should do it's like the it's not coward or what it's like there's a specific name for it you know like a um false valor or whatever there's like an equivalent sort of name for it douchebag yeah yeah yeah yeah well just failing at Duty and uh you know I saw in this same documentary I was talking about that a lot of the police officers were saying that they spend more time in diversity meetings than they do with their firearm in their hand yeah that and that is true when you look at the consistency of training that's why that you know one of the things that could drive you crazy during that the sort of the height of the defund the police was really you you're just [ __ ] stupid because if you want a better police force a more responsive police force a more responsible police force you want to actually give them more funds for training that's where it all starts right so part of the problem is again going back to something we talked about earlier is that you know a lot of times when you hit budget cuts training is one of the first things to go and that can't be the case when you're talking about law enforcement especially not if you're going to be a guy who goes up a ladder and sees a dude with a a long gun and yeah and that again I I'm I'm fascinated by the comm's portion of this and and the the line of communication because there's a period of time there right where the attendees at alert the local authorities local authorities decide someone you know Bob's got to go over there and investigate well at the same time all that communication should have been shared with the counter sniper teams and command and control from the Secret Service right they should have been making decisions in real time so if that person was going up a ladder on that building they should have had him in their sights at that point right now maybe they didn't have line of sight on the on the shooter maybe he you know he was out of range not out of range but out of sight and then he pops up and points his weapon at but that's the time to shoot him as soon as it you know so there's Little Steps here but again you know is it fair for me without the investigation being done to make all these you know statements I don't know I'm just speaking from you know from F past experience on other events but you know we they got to let the investigation play out it's just it's such a the event had such magnitude and such impact that it's natural I get why people rush to make judgment or statements or talk about things it makes sense do you think think that this stops Biden from stepping down because Trump now has a a mar vote well I think um yeah that's that's a yeah that's a really interesting point but I think it goes back to what I was saying when uh I was I was trying to refer to the the the fact that the noise around Biden's situation has died down uh to no noise right so I think it does uh by him significant time and I think him coming out and saying you know look we need to be civil we need to think about how we talk about each other he's trying to be presidential he's trying to show obviously like with every event that he's had since the debate that he's he's up to the job but I think it's making it more difficult right for the Democrats to continue to beat the drum there were probably prior to Saturday they were probably more Democrats in Congress or in the Senate who were going to step out you know and say we think needs to go right that that was a building drum beat I think that it's more difficult now for them to do that because of the events of Saturday and because of feeling like okay well maybe you know maybe we just gotta stick with Joe um dude think about the last three weeks of [ __ ] news yeah well think about the I mean really think about this past year right everything that's been going on I mean obviously you know Ukraine in Gaza right um you know the the the discourse on around the election this event on Saturday I mean good god um you know all we need is a pandemic sorry so say that that's terrible but you know not that we won't get one we're gonna get another pandemic by the way it'll happen it'll happen it'll continue to happen uh talk to me about JD Vans yeah interesting I guess not an unexpected Choice they'd been banging on for a while saying it was either going to be Vance or or beram or Rubio um and look JD Vance is close to his to Trump's son they're very good friends uh he's he's an interesting cat right has almost I don't know anything about him explain to me who he is yeah he's got almost no political experience uh he wrote that book hillbilly elogy which was a very interesting book I mean a very interesting book um and you know they made a movie out of it I think but he's a political newcomer uh he's been a very uh staunch supporter of trump out of he's out of Ohio um and you know of the candidates I don't know that if what you were saying was I want to I want to pick a candidate who can really help me win over um you know uh groups that I'm I'm I need to win I don't know that JD Vance is that person because he's he's already got his base right and so I think JD Vance kind of shares the same supporters uh Rubio you know could have Shor up short up Florida obviously you know with a Hispanic vote as well would help he's a much more seasoned politician uh bergham is you know he's he's a good friend of Trump's he's he's got you know very good political instincts business instincts um Nikki Haley was hanging out there and I got to tell you if you wanted the moderates or you wanted the independent voters um you could argue Nikki Haley could have been a terrific Choice except they got you know they were so sideways with each other during the the primary what do you think do you think there's any chance that Trump changed his VP pick post Saturday oh that's interesting uh no probably not I think I think the the wheels are in motion too much yeah I think the factor that would have changed his decision possibly would have been if Biden had stepped out um and had pulled himself out that that may have recalibrated the thinking perhaps uh over the VP pick but I I don't think Saturday I think at that point he he you know he just he went with Vance um and didn't change his mind uh I I was in a I'm in a group chat with a bunch of different people here uh one of them saying uh teal hired him at his VC fund mithril uh also endorsed his Senate campaign with the biggest individual donation ever for a senate campaign of $15 million very happy with Van's super smart competent veteran rustbell Blue Collar orientation also and sad that this is the case he provides assassination Insurance yeah well look I mean Trump had been saying that right he said you know his his decision over who to pick pick would be you know if something bad happens are they ready to step in but okay to be fair you know every Presidential nominee says that I want my VP pick to be ready on day one um and look I I like I like Vance in the sense that he's he's unique right he's not a he's not a 110 year politician right and uh that's not a bad thing at all and I like the fact that he's a veteran that's a very good thing um so I'm I'm just saying it's an interesting choice in the sense that I don't know that it expands the voting block necessarily for the campaign because it's drawing from the same kind of block as opposed to maybe one of the other picks but then again you know you want somebody that you can you know be sympatico with and Vance has been a staunch supporter Nik Nikki Haley might have just been a [ __ ] nightmare from behind the scenes from day one well I think it would have been it would have been very interesting Dynamic yeah yeah I think that's that's the case and maybe Rubio you know was a bit of the same way you know maybe there was some you know concern over past you know you know uh punches they'd thrown at each other so who knows at the end of the day does it does it matter all that much I I don't know that a VP pick matters all that much look if if Biden stays in um you know I think the the key has got to be saying look you're you're not running against Biden you're running against you know president Harris because I don't think anybody in their right mind believes that Biden you know makes it through four years if he wins so a vote for Biden is a vote for kamla Harris and you're willing to say that kamla Harris you know is is could be the leader of the Free World and I can't even say that with a straight face I mean that's that's more terrifying than the president getting shot oh the presidential candidate being shot in the ear uh I I've seen this map the election map of when Reagan got shot afterward and you've got red red red red red red red red red and then this one blue dot that remained up at the top How likely or how unlikely is that to be the case given the sort of Never Die never Trump Etc kind of even after all of this you you've basically got the ultimate onew punch like jab in the face Biden's completely incompetent punch the other guy is totally competent and can literally get shot and stand up 15 seconds later uh but that's just surely there's no way that we can see a a huge red sweep in the same way because people are just so uh passionate about hating Trump yeah yeah he's that's it's a different it's it's a different situation you can't it's apples and oranges when you're talking about what happened with Reagan I think and and so look there's no way he's going to run the table or get anywhere close it's going to be a close race still um and I think that you know the jury's still out maybe maybe when the noise dies down right and you know the election really heats up again and the rhetoric you know comes back kind of the way it was that the Democrats you know start re-evaluating again uh Biden's you know uh suitability and you know so that could be that could be the next big event in terms of the election season that we're we're in the middle of [ __ ] hell okay so one other thing I really wanted to ask you uh one of your expertise international relations uh first off have any other world leaders of Interest said anything that's interesting and secondly how do you think other countries the Chinas the russas the irans of the world how do you think they interpret the ease with which a 20-year-old bullied kid with bad hair was able to shoot the president's ear off yeah well I think that I think the jihadists are looking at and going what that's it that's all we to do is climb up on a damn shed um yeah so I think they're looking at it from a security breakdown and thinking oh my God maybe we've been overthinking this right gave them too much credit yeah and so but look the Chinese regime as always xiin Bing and and the foreign Ministry they you know they were very muted in their response uh after the assassination attempt and you know they you know wished wished him well um but they they tend to you know try to be seen as not waiting in because they don't want anybody stepping in their business um European leaders said exactly what you would imagine you know everybody was condemning the political violence um it was weren't really many um I'm trying to think Slovakia Robert Foo you know he made a couple of interesting comments because he had been you know uh they tried to assassinate him not that long ago shot him I think four times um so he uh he alluded to the idea that you know the the rhetoric from the opposition party you know probably played a role but there there there was pretty much just what you would expect you know condemnation of political violence from from world leaders you know UK uh Kier starmer the new prime minister he came in and weighed in very quickly um and and so that makes sense it's you wouldn't expect anything different um I think Russian Russian uh I'm trying to remember what what they they they didn't really say much I think uh pesov the spokesperson for the Kremlin made a made an off-handed comment um but you know basically it was another another advertisement of America in fighting operational poor management the fact that one party that's kind of in charge of the protection detail for the other party isn't capable of stopping this it's it's more sort of America falling flat on its face on the world stage only recently after the guy that's in charge couldn't string a sentence together yeah it was interesting I mean I speaking of that you know the the White House during the NATO Summit which was just you know concluded last week um uh John Kirby was was asked and he said look I you know the nobody in NATO questions uh Biden's abilities right we don't have to justify Biden to anybody they all you know firmly believe well what else are the NATO leaders going to say you know I mean they you know but it was it was interesting that that even at that point when it was clear that there were some ues um the White House was still trying to portray Biden as as you know being on top of his game and sharp his attack and all the other like I again we're all getting older right you know you me everybody we're all getting older we all age differently right it's not age it's mental acuity and we've all got elderly parents we've all got elderly grandparents we all know what it looks like so um I think the problem the White House has even during this moment when that talk has died down is that people understand that process right and they know what it looks like because they've seen it or they've had to deal with it directly so I don't know ultimately that they're going to be able to hold the line and keep him in there uh but frankly kamla Harris and John Kirby and Karine jeanpierre and you know everybody in his little circle and his family um they've kind of been lying to the American public um for quite some time now and trying to cover up what's been happening despite the fact that we've been seeing bits and pieces of it but that's why he hasn't been out there right what was it called what was it called when you when you take videos out of context what was that there was a name for oh a cheap fake cheap fake yeah that's what how they were referring to it it was a it was a cheap fake every time that there was a reference to it or that we were just and the media for the most part were willing to cover it up as well dude did you read I think it was Ben Usher he wrote an article called common knowledge I didn't read that no I'll send it to you I'll send it to you afterwards so basically the the break it's phenomenal it's so good and uh it basically says that it's not enough for you to know a thing you need to know that other people know that thing too so for instance it's not enough for you to know that Biden it's The Emperor's New Clothes right you can pick your favorite fairy tale of choice um and the problem being that until you have reliable Insight that other people will agree with your position nobody is prepared to take the position so it's not enough for you to know that you know you need to know that everybody else also knows and what we saw on the debate night was common knowledge be distributed to the masses there was nowhere else for anybody to hide therefore when you come out as someone who previously has said Biden's sharp is attack or what you know pick New York Times [ __ ] like Washington Post whoever it is yeah and then you pivot and say something else well it's a completely Costless position to hold because everybody else knows it like it's the same with the Free Speech position you know Free Speech doesn't matter for people who agree with you or who you agree with free speech only matters for the people who you disagree with because it's a costly position in order to be able to hold that and it's the same with this common knowledge thing and it's so interesting to me because for those of us that exist terminally online in the heterodox sphere of substack we have all known this for forever this is something this is to me talking like doing jokes about Biden's mental degradation was hacky it was so obvious that it felt lowball to say and then you watch the debate and you go oh there's people in the world who don't have access to my common knowledge now I'm sure that there's [ __ ] tons of stuff that I don't know about but that was one of the things that I did so much so that I take it for granted it's an accepted fact and it's so much of an accepted fact that it would be hacky and lowball to make a joke about it and oh the world thinks that this is [ __ ] revolutionary and it really broke my brain for a while when I realized oh my understanding and the way that I see certain parts of the world and the way that maybe the rest of the a big chunk of the populist does yeah is is [ __ ] miles apart I'm no [ __ ] Clairvoyant political Divinity guy but [ __ ] me I knew that and for it to be a revelation was just like oh oh wow this really does show how uh Echo Bubbles and the still the power of Legacy Media to be able to filter what actually gets down to the sort of ocean floor of most people uh it wild wild and and the and the the ability to repeat a message right if you're you know if you just keep saying the same thing over attack shop is attack shop is attack and and then it and then it works and then then we find out that they you know had been basically complicit in hiding this and you know that's why and then of course you know people come out and pundits come out and and people who had just been on on their shows you know talking about how great he is you know saying well you know we've kind of seen this for a while I can't believe that they've hid it from us and you think it's kind of like it's kind of like again what we talked about earlier calling Trump Hitler and then the next day wishing him well you know it's it's it's that it's that immediate turnaround that to me is shocking but but people just move on right and they and they know that right they know they can do this there's almost no shame because they just like okay I'm going to I'm going to Pivot and completely reverse my position and yeah I'll be fine in a day or two um it's it's shocking but anyway in the interim just just rounding out the conversation on security does Tim Kennedy or Eric prince need to be called in do you do you go private security to uh bolster uh Trump's security detail or maybe maybe other people's security details no no I think look I I you know was out and we had a large oper operation out in Iraq um early days of Iraq right I mean talking 03 04 05 06 I mean and uh you know we were we had a large Private Security operation out there and and um that's a that's a that's a war zone so it's a little bit different but when we're talking about augmenting Secret Service with you know private security I I I I don't think so I think look one of the challenges that you face when you try to augment Secret Service with with private guys Iraqi power yeah you're just you're just layering on potential Communications and command and control issues and and I just think it's and it's also um I think look the Secret Service uh their staff was some great people right we always have to be careful about you know there's there's this tendency to say oh they're all screwed dismantle it you know that's there was that cry about you got to get rid of the bureau and get rid of the agency and do all these things and I'm thinking really that's that's your take on this um how about just fixing problems and uh so the Secret Service uh augmented by uh local and state you know law enforcement uh they can do the job they've been doing the job right um you know part of this is they've got to they've got to be transparent again they've got to come out and say these are the steps that that occurred and and some of them won't surprise us because we all watched right um but they've got to be very clear about what those steps are and they've got to be very clear about how they intend to not have it happen again right and that's going to require some people taking responsibility and that's where I think that can be a problem because you have to make people at the top take responsibility and maybe suffer some consequences as opposed to just saying you know the officer on the ground who failed to communicate in real time what he was about to do by going up on that building you know that's the guy who's you we can all blame yeah I I have had it in my head since Saturday I wonder whether there is a level of negligence you reach where it almost becomes complicity well I I it's complicity it could be um what's the word I'm looking for complacency you know maybe at at times um you know it just the the reason that I brought up the private security thing is I saw that trailer saying 30% of Secret Service staff are going to be female by 2030 I spoke to Tim and Tim explained to me that the mile time for guys versus girls to run is different the weight load that you need to be able to lift is different the height all of the rest of the stuff you know you saw a a woman who was he came up she came up to Trump's nipple maybe you know got this big guy got this big dude and this like little woman in Fr that's where you decided that's where you decided to go as far as the height measurement was the nipple yeah the nipple I that's precisely where she that's precisely where she got to and um you know no I know what you mean and then you know they would get yet an agent you know kind of fumble [ __ ] with their weapon trying to reh you know holster it that was the same one who used Trump hid behind Trump like this like sort of in that kind of like uh the [ __ ] the guy woman in the kitchen from Tom and Jerry like that's a great cultural pull right there yeah you haven't thought about that for a while Tom and Jerry look I I I think there's uh you there's no room for Dei in in the world of operations of security right you just simply choose the it should be the way it is in everything not just those sectors but you you choose the most qualified capable people um and if they can't cut it then you move them out and you bring in somebody who's more capable and qualified and you're right you can't you there's a problem when you when you because I think the Secret Service will say that look we didn't lower the standards right that's not that's not what we did right but you hear that all the time problem is that that belies the reality right out in Iraq is a good example right for a while there was only one only bring former you know spec ops guys out right well that's that's that's a small pool right there's not a lot it's not a lot of former guys there with that qualification so then you started seeing you know everybody squatties and everybody coming out there and claiming that they were a spec ops former you know this and that and and so uh you've got a you've got a limited pool of capable people I believe right that you can choose from for certain jobs and you just have to take those people and say [ __ ] de eii that's not what's important in this business right um and and again I'm I I don't want to rush to judgment right I don't know the qualifications these people we have to kind of look and see you always let's be measured that sort of thing but I take your point and I I don't disagree with it at all well the the problem being the reason I meant I mentioned uh Eric or Tim or some other private contractor is that you know Tim brought it up to me he said the people that you see that are on Trump's detail even though they may not have performed like The A Team they weren't hired yesterday you don't get hired and then get put on a presidential candidate's detail you have been in the agency for a while you've been hired and trained long ago you've been around for a long time so in order to say well we're going to rectify it we're going to train better we're going to hire better we're going to change the Dei initiative we're going to do whatever it is that they say that they're going to do brilliant you know the 2028 election may very well be more way more secure than this but you know when you're thinking what's going to happen over the next however long RFK Jr has just being given Secret Service detail that's going to take some of the resources away and how many people are going to have their time taken up going through [ __ ] meeting after meeting after hearing after court case after investigation as you said sucking the oxygen out of the room and taking the attention away from the thing that it needs to be focused on so yeah I I I don't know man America is not showering itself in glory and oddly the the only person that is at the moment is Trump that's a great way to put it that's no I yeah that's that's gonna drive a lot of people crazy when they hear you say that but it's [ __ ] true dude I I people can go back and listen I I don't think I've ever been complimentary about Trump not that I was particularly critical of him over Biden but I'm like he's just a dude he's a dude that's kind of a bit crazy and I just think tell me tell me that you look at that photo and you don't think yeah like that's some late 80s flag flying Americana yeah like legitimacy um yeah it's it's it's crazy he's out there yelling Wolverines right yeah no I I again and it's that imagery that's so important right because people make decisions quickly people don't dig deep you know and and they're going to see that and maybe they make up their mind and and you know what again you can't what you going to argue with that you're going to look at that and then you're going to look at at President Biden from the debate and you're going to go who's obviously tell you what's tell you what's an awesome awesome video that you can get a hold of so uh Evan the guy that took the photo um he is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu guy looks an awful lot like a Navy SEAL like Mass he looks like he looks like a young jocker willink it's hard dude and um if you watch the video there's a Pand out version of the stage and those shots start firing he doesn't stop in cow he starts strafing AC across the front of the stage to get those shots there's two guys that get them really interesting video that you can find um which was shot on a pair of Rayban meta glasses so I've I've got a pair of those too so it's a pair of sunglasses that you wear and they've got two little lenses on either side and they can shoot up to about a minute of video in very high quality and the color representation really good and this guy so Evan's the guy that took the photo the photos that are going around everywhere there's another dude who presumably got very similarly good photos as that one yeah I think he's from The New York Times I think yeah Doug Mills Maybe yeah so he yeah it is do Ms he had the foresight when he's around the back he's around the back of the stage and the video begins but you can't remotely start those glasses so he's had his his camera like this or whatever it is like this and he's shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot and he's taken his hand off pressed the button held it you have to hold it if you want to take a video and then gone back to that and if you watch I I messaged Dean the guy that eded this episode you met him in in Miami my video guy I was asking him what is that dude Doug what's what's that dude doing because you actually see from his glasses you can see both of his hands right so he's got his hands up like this and you're looking at this thing and um he he's shooting a lot this is during a firefight yeah these guys it's so cool I love seeing people who know their craft inside out doing something and what's coolest about this isn't the sh the shots that he get it's the seamlessness with which he does it so you see that he's shooting and he can't frame up properly so so he takes his hand off the front of the the camera flips the screen down so that he can get a better look and he's he's working on his I think either exposure or Focus whatever Dean said and then uh he's checking he's checking the screen he's going like this and Dean was like he's working about every one to one and a half seconds he's looking at the composition of his shot during this so he's shooting shooting shooting look shooting shooting shooting LS shooting shooting shooting shooting and burst burst burst burst burst I I'm like that's one of the coolest parts of it unbelievable you know what else is amazing if you watch right behind Trump there's some lady right as soon as the shooting starts literally the shooting starts she puts up her phone and and she just she just in the audience right she's like first or second row behind Trump so you got to watch watch the videos that are out there and you'll see she's got a I think she's got a white case on her phone and she's sitting there wearing a white shirt I think and she and and it literally it starts off and she just puts her phone up and I'm like God so I don't know whether this is true Tim is the only guy that's told me this he said that the man who died uh comp comp compor yeah Cory compor yes um he apparently this is what Tim said threw himself on top of his family and that he took the the shot in his head that's what the reports are saying yeah using his body which is the Aurora Colorado shooting all over again right that someone goes in and boyfriends throw themselves on top of girlfriends yeah yeah no it's you know and I think uh I think that's another reason why look you you know if no one else had been hurt maybe they would treat a little bit differently but you can't you got to be very measured about how they talk about this from the Republican side from the campaign side and I think they their their best thing to do is just let it go obviously they'll probably reference it during the RNC speeches or whatever but they got to let it go just go and then just and then just let some of the imagery speak for itself but move on and go to the issues it looks too um callous to to use it as a look at how awesome we are where hard is whilst a guy died and there one or two people still in intensive care exactly dude I I hate to say this but I gotta pop that's all right dude I appreciate you for doing this emergency episode I needed to get you on uh Mike Baker ladies and gentlemen MB company man MB company man um also uh the president's daily brief podcast look at me marketing right now just before we finish up I'm putting that I always talk about that but the president's Daily Brief podcast available on all podcast platforms and we do a weekend TV show now called the situation report well you'll have a lot to talk about next weekend mate I really appreciate you uh stay safe at the RNC if you enjoyed that episode you will love a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last couple of months and it's available right here go on give him a watch