on the one hand management talking about plan closures job cuts on the other hand uh the union talking about more money for Volkswagen workers they're really diametrically opposed at this uh stage um the different positions what's really unique here if we look at the different uh sides negotiating so on one hand the management on the other hand the employees is the power that employees wield within Volkswagen Volkswagen and Union reps started crunch talks today trying to figure out a way forward after the German Auto Titan announced drastic cost cutting plans thousands staged a protest outside the talks and unions are vowing bitter resistance to find out the mood on the ground at the negotiations we turn now to our DW business correspondent Marie Cena who's on site in Hanover Marie lots of scary headlines being thrown around Factory closures layoffs what's being negotiated today well first of all the negotiations kicked off right behind me behind this door uh just about an hour ago um and the negotiations are between Volkswagen and igy mat the union representing Volkswagen workers and what's being negotiation negotiated is nothing short of the job future of 120,000 Volkswagen workers here in Germany so these negotiations are taking place now a month earlier than planned and that's because three weeks ago Volkswagen cancelled the job protection scheme that had been in place for 30 years and essentially put job Clos closures and planed closures on the table and now workers and the Volkswagen management are coming together to uh agree on what uh wages and job security uh will look like in the future and whether or not they can agree on something will really determine um how uh Volkswagen's workers in Germany will look towards the future sure and what's the mood on the ground right now so right before these talks kicked off around 3,000 protesters showed up at the doors of this building um there was chanting there was booing there were a lot of posters some protesters actually left a poster here in front of the store that is kind of looks like a gravestone for the uh job protection agreement that Volkswagen had put in place in 1994 and that was um nixed just 3 weeks ago so a lot of upset protesters upset people who came from all different factories of Volkswagen around the country and we actually spoke to some of them have a [Applause] listen at the moment there is a certain insecurity I think that I should be okay but I'm here for my younger colleagues they need to think about what's coming things will keep going initially but it won't be like it used to be everything is different now at FKS and including how we deal with management we're annoyed that the wage guarantees have been cut we are annoyed that they're saying that 7% is too much for the workers that's wrong we have brought productivity up the miserable situation is not the workers's fault management has made many mistakes on product development they were asleep at the wheel in the China market and that's why we're super angry so we're hearing it here workers feel like management has been asleep at the wheel and like it's the workers who will now have to feel the bitter consequences um of um mess ups on the side of the management that's according to the people we spoke to uh this morning Volkswagen the company is a big player here in Germany and the group does represent 10 brands how dramatic is the situation that the company finds itself in that it says it needs these Cuts it's a historic U situation that the company finds itself in so this is the first time in the company's 87 year history um that it's put plant closures on the table even even Volkswagen to many synonymous with the economic might the economic success of Germany it was a a key player in the economic miracle that took place in the German economy after the second world war and it was in a big expansion course uh for many years buying up for example Bentley Lamborghini buying up different car brands um around Europe and now instead of an expansion course it's looking at plant closures and uh the reasons for that are are multifold um but to boil it down essentially one big problem is that um Volkswagen's production is too expensive and that it's selling not enough cars at the same time so it's spending too much money not making enough money back it's uh sold half a million less cars a year in Europe um now than before the pandemic so it's selling less cars in its Home Market in Europe as people have less money to spend that's one big issue high production costs in Germany High energ costs High labor costs another issue and then the big issue that everybody's talking about that's on everybody's Minds right now is China China is the most important Market of Volkswagen and China is rapidly losing ground there electric vehicles that uh Volkswagen is is trying to sell in China are not as popular um as competitors homegrown competitors in China like BD but also American competitors like Tesla are producing electric vehicles that are a lot more more popular than Volkswagen so this one's very Mighty brand is is losing ground at home and abroad you're right outside the door where that negotiate where those negotiations are taking place on the other side of the negotiating table what are the worker demands and how realistic are they given the current situation right so the EIG maai the workers union representing Volkswagen workers um is demanding a 7% pay rise on the one hand and on the other hand um it's demanding for foex Fang to reinstitute this job protection uh program that had been in place for the last 30 years so uh to summarize it's asking for more money and job security now that's actually a similar demand than um other unions are making uh in the metal industry for example and in the electric industry so in a different context these demands aren't unrealistic whatsoever but if we look at um the statements coming from from Volkswagen management which is saying we're not making enough money we're spending too much money and Germany is no longer a competitive um car manufacturing Hub because it's become too expensive then suddenly um it becomes clear how different these views are on the one hand management talking about plan closures job cuts on the other hand uh the union talking about more money for fwag workers they're really diametrically opposed at this uh stage um the different position positions and so um the talks that are happening behind me are expected to continue happening um until the end of the year and the big question is whether those positions will be able to to converge a little bit and come to an agreement and in terms of background who are the leaders on both sides here and who are their Chief negotiators so the chief negotiators on the one hand are Volkswagen management and on the other side are um the Representatives um and um danila cavalo the representative of the workers Council and what's really unique here if we look at the different uh sides negotiating so on one hand the management on the other hand the employees is the power that employees wield within Volkswagen really the power that the Union wields within this company is unparalleled uh compared to the rest of the world really so um Volkswagen is known to have a very strong union and the union actually holds half of the seats on the company's board and together um with politicians of the home state of Volkswagen lur Saxony um who are pro employee because they're um social Democrats um they actually have a veto vote on the board of this company so uh really um the two sides here that are negotiating are really on eye level and um what igel has said is that they expect um a discussion here that will take place on eye level and they feel like that's not what's been happening until now because uh in their eyes they've been informed about these these giant plans and these these um big plans that management has for potentially cutting cutting jobs too late so this will be an interesting time to to potentially find more common ground and and more eye Lev discussion between the different parties negotiating and Volkswagen is just one company but what does this negotiating round tell us about the whole industry in Germany right now right the car industry is Germany's most well-known industry it's Germany's most important industry and it's not just the car makers themselves that are really essential for Germany's economy but it's also the providers um of different parts uh the companies that make um that make tires for example that produce the rubber um it's really such a staple of the German economy and it's not just Volkswagen that's struggling if we look at BMV Mercedes and Volkswagen all three of those have only used two-thirds of their Factory capacity last year so all of them are producing fewer cars there's less demand um for their cars and all of them are struggling with higher production costs so this problem really isn't unique um to Volkswagen entirely um and really the big problem that applies to all uh German car makers overall is the fact that Germany's car industry has built its success on the combustion engine and on really perfecting the combustion engine and these are companies that have a long tradition um that have hundreds of thousands of employees and when the electric vehicle industry came around um German com car companies really lacked the nimbleness uh and the Innovative speed to rethink their concept and to jump onto that electric vehicle business quickly enough and now they're lagging behind while consumers especially young consumers but also consumers in China like I mentioned are looking more towards electric vehicles uh and less towards these big Prestige oriented um combustion engine cars like a big Mercedes like a big BMW so Germany uh the German car industry has to become more Nimble more Innovative and has to figure out how to make affordable and modern cars that's our DW business correspondent Marie Cena who's joined us on and Hanover Marie thank you