It's the dawn of a new era for gym class heroes. How does billionaire come out? You really want to know? Yeah, I would have a show like Oprah. A lot of people don't know this. I'm about to give you an exclusive, please. So, the original topline for Billionaire was I want to be a billionaire so [ __ ] bad. I want to be on the cover of Forbes magazine standing next to Diddy and the Queen. The remix with Wayne for Viva. Like that that happened. My heart's a stat. Yeah. Yeah. I just saw the concept in my head. So, I just started writing like, "If I was just another dusty record on the shelf, would you blow me off and play me like and like and it just started it started coming out naturally. If I was just another dusty record on the shelf, would you blow me off and play me like everybody else?" I lowkey feel like I let our fans down in a sense. I'm I'm just going to be open and honest with you. It's probably the first time I ever said this. I remember discovering you guys on that drive-thru records pure volume CD with 150 bands. Bro, tell me how. Yo, I I lived by those compilations. Like, wait, which compilation was it? Drive-through. Drive-thru and Pure Volume had a two disc one. Put Taxi Driver on it. Huh? Yes. With an MP3 selection of 150 songs and I go through every single one and Taxi Drive. I'm just like on the edge of my seat. Who are you going to name drop next? You tapped into a market so into the generation between that new friend request. It was it spoke to me and it it just it was a sound unlike anything else at the time and it was so special to me when I discovered you guys. Means the world to me, man. For real. For real. Like I mean we I mean gym class we we'd all like I grew up going to hardcore shows and um had always been tapped into that scene. I was always this the sore thumb. Like there's all the you know straight edge white kids like wanting to beat the [ __ ] out of each other and like I'm in I'm in the you know parking lot waiting for the venue to open drinking 40s and [ __ ] You know what I mean? Like I mean this is when like this is like the hardline straight edge like they'll beat you up if they see you smoking a cigarette type [ __ ] And I was like I dare you. I dare you. But um I mean it was it was just a cool release of energy. So, uh, and then we started, uh, you know, started doing Warp Tour and touring with a lot of the bands that like, you know, we grew up listening to and like bands like Every Time I Die and [ __ ] and shout out to Every Time I Die, my man Keith. Uh, but then I, you know, as like that AP era, like Alternative Press, I was, that was Alternative Press and the Source magazine, they were my Bibles growing up, you know, like I would always go get the the new Source and New Alternative Press. So, you were into the scene that much like absolut.net. that you I was on I was in all them forums like what's the new [ __ ] you know what I mean or who's talking [ __ ] about who like what what band got beef with who like I was I was up on it you know what I mean until we got thrown in there and I was like I don't want to see none of this [ __ ] you know what I mean but yeah absolute punk like like that that g that was like a platform for us like you know I was going like oh people are really digging this [ __ ] you know and and it's not what is like prevalent on this this this uh platform you you know, like not at all at all at all. So, um I guess I guess we kind of got I guess I guess that scene kind of embraced us by association, you know, cuz we were [ __ ] like we were [ __ ] with Fallout Boy and you know, Pete basically got us our deal. So, like, oh well, if Pete [ __ ] with them, we got to [ __ ] with them. I was like, not necessarily. You don't have to, but if you [ __ ] with it, cool. And and they just [ __ ] embraced us with open arms, you know what I mean? and we did our thing. And I I remember uh like like one day I I opened Alternate Press and I'm you know flipping through and I'm looking at these band names and they're like like sentences like you will know and you will know us by the Trail of the Dead. I'm like what the [ __ ] So like I'm like wait a minute like and it started to make this narrative. Sorry. it started to make this narrative like okay I started putting like like in my head like I started seeing all these equations and [ __ ] and like and all these names start I'm like yo I can make this a whole story like a whole like a whole uh what's the word I'm looking for cohesive story that my friends who have no idea who any of these bands are could still understand but the kids that do know who these bands are will be like whoa how how'd he put that together you know I mean So, and that's the narrative of Taxi Driver. Yeah, absolutely. So, so it wasn't it wasn't just I think a lot of people like, "Oh, he's he's just trying to [ __ ] whatever." Like they they thought it was like uh they thought I had like ulterior motives like I want I wanted to I don't know be accepted because I I knew all these bands and it's like nah. Like so for instance there's a song called called Labels by G uh Jiza from Wuang and he basically did what I did in Taxi Driver but instead of like indie band or or rock and indie band names he just used uh record labels. He's like Tommy ate my [ __ ] boy and he keeps going on and I was like that's genius. It's probably why they called him a genius. So that's kind of the approach I took with Taxi Driver. Right. Yeah. I mean, lyrically though, you were such a storyteller. Even one song that always stuck out to me was Scandalous Scholastics. Oh my lord. Yo, that just came up like a week ago. Was that a true story at all? A a little embellished. A little embellished, but not completely not completely fiction. Yeah, I'll leave it there. I don't want to get anybody in trouble, you know. Okay. So, how do you find the sound for Paper Cut Chronicles? So, you know, I've I've always been told uh by people who have been in this in the muck of this [ __ ] longer than me that you have like your whole life to write your first album. You know what I mean? And I was like, that makes a lot of sense cuz the Paper Cut Chronicles, like first and foremost, the title came from a mixtape that I made for this girl named Lisa Gibson that I was in love with. I used to make mix that was my I I didn't have any game growing up. So I would make mixtapz for girls and like make these crazy titles and make these crazy covers and every mixtape had like a story, you know what I mean? Like um and the paper cut chronicles was a mixtape that I made for Lisa Gibson. And when we started making the record um we were I mean some of the song I was I wrote when I was like 17 18, you know what I mean? And we put it out when I was 22. So And those are just demos that you eventually worked on. Yeah, they there they were demos that we would play and and we had recordings of but that we refined, you know, when we decide to make a full a full length, you know what I mean? But it was still like, all right, world, this is me. You know what I'm saying? And and low key after we wrapped it and we listened to a million times, I'm like, [ __ ] what else am I going to talk about after this? You know what I'm saying? But I'm 22 years old, you know? I'm like, I got a whole not thinking I got a whole [ __ ] life ahead of me, you know? like to write things about, but I thought it was over after that. Like I was like like I don't I mean toward towards the end of the album I was starting to run out of things to talk about. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like how the hell does a career in this field work if you don't got [ __ ] to talk about? But you know life life does its thing and you know songs happen I guess right. What does a song like Cupid's Chokeold do for you guys? How does that blow you up into the next stratosphere? I have no answer for that honestly. Like I will tell you how it happened. Um but it's beyond me. Like so we had always flirted with like sampling like we we had always want we you know like like we got the live band aspect you know and that's all I've ever known you know. I've done like straight hip-hop [ __ ] you know with friends of mine but I all I've ever known was having a band with me. I've never felt like this, you know, like a rapper, like a I'm here. There's always a unit, you know what I mean? So, you wanted your boys behind you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because that that was the only way I could feel comfortable, you know what I mean? Like that was also the scene you grew up on. For sure. So, you know, like as I guess we uh as we grew as musicians, um as artists, I wanted to kind of just like like I I hadn't heard like heard of many like live bands using samples before, you know? I think the roots I did uh a joint called uh it's a sl a Sly the Family Stone song. They sampled Everybody's a Star. And I was like this is genius. Like with Cupid's chokeold, Breakfast in America was a record that my f my my father used to play when I was younger and I only reason I I I would be like, "Dad, I knew I knew when he pulled out the album cuz there was like this fat lady on the cover with like a pie or some [ __ ] and it scared the [ __ ] out of me." She like she looked like Large Marge. You ever see Peewee uh Big Adventure? Remember Large Marge? Yeah. Yeah. This [ __ ] looked like Large Marge with a cake. I was like, "Dad, play play the play the album with the fat white lady." And he'd be like, "All right, got you." And all I remember was hearing you know what I mean? And then the the take a look at my girlfriend. And that [ __ ] was always in the back of my head. It was that song. And there's a song by Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes called Bad Luck that I always wanted to sample. And the hook was like bad luck. That's what you got. That's what you got. You got bad luck, which I still feel like I should do. But so uh my roommate in uh I went to art school for a couple years and my roommate and he's still my best friend to this day, but he's a producer as well. And uh one day I was like, "Yo, like I want to flip this uh this uh Super [ __ ] sample, but you know, like I want the hook to be and I showed him like where I wanted it, but originally it was uh it wasn't take a look at my girlfriend." It was um don't you look at my girlfriend. So it's the beat the like the beat part. First he says, "Take a look at my girlfriend." And the beat party goes, "Don't you look at my girlfriend. She's the only one I got originally. That's what I wanted." So he's like, "Yo, I got you. I got you." And uh I went to work, came back home, he was like, "Yo, I got it." He plays it. And it's like, "Take a look at my girlfriend. She's" I'm like, "That's the wrong one, bro." But but the more I listened, I was like, "This [ __ ] still hits." You know what I'm saying? So I took I took what he did to the band and I was like, "Yo, I think we could, you know what I mean? like bring this to studio and lay lay our our [ __ ] over it and make it happen. And lo and behold, we recorded the [ __ ] in like 25 minutes and literally like 25 minutes. And uh sometime after that, it got to a radio station in Minneapolis. I believe it was No, Milwaukee. I'm sorry. Cuz whoever I always get it [ __ ] up and I know she gets pissed every time I do. There was a a a radio uh there was a radio DJ in Milwaukee who caught wind of it. It makes sense because you know Milwaukee Chicago that whole area like that Chicago was like our second home after like we got linked with Fall Boy. So she started playing on the radio and it got requests and I think a little bleep started popping up on you know other radio stations radars and they're like what the [ __ ] is this song that keeps getting played? Bing bing bing. Next thing you know, like Cubis chokeold blows up and I'm like and we just get thrown into the lion's den, you know? And then is that when all these people start calling for like Con and O'Brien and Jimmy Kimmel and you're doing these late night performances? Absolutely. And I was not prepared for any of that [ __ ] at all. At all. I mean, I'm I'm I'm fresh out the van, you know what I'm saying? Like dirty kid from upstate and now I'm doing Ellen and you know I mean it's it it was weird. It was weird. But I did my damn thing, you know? I did what I could and I I think they enjoyed it. So, did it ever get overwhelming being in the spotlight like that? Because exactly what you said, you were doing the van life playing at abandoned churches. Yeah. Yeah. And now you're doing late night performances for the entire country. And you know, like a lot of people don't know this, like you only get one take. Like there's no like you [ __ ] up, let's do it again. I think there I think there was one maybe I think one time we did Leno and we [ __ ] up bad and he was like, "All right, let's roll it back." But other than that, other than that, like you got to do it, do it. So, um, that [ __ ] was it was it was uh intense. But the more I did it, the more fearless I got. I was like, if I can do this [ __ ] like I can do anything. You know what I mean? This [ __ ] is going is being everybody's going to see this [ __ ] and I have one chance to do it. So, it gives you like this I don't know. It gives you this this uh sense of like Yeah. after after doing a couple uh after doing a few TV late night TV spots, I felt invincible, you know what I mean? Like, but it was definitely a a weird transition. It was a weird transition. What did performing on Conan do to the status of your band? Would you see more people show up at the shows? I think I mean I think every te television um performance that we did kind of boosted uh our fan base um in a sense but one thing that yo so we were talking earlier I did uh uh the other night shout out to little Aaron um he had a popup shop and and this year is the 20th anniversary of Paper Cook Chronicles which I see back here crazy gang it's the 20th anniversary which is bugged out and you know Lil Eron his whole thing is green. So like I was like, "Bro, this makes too much sense. It makes way too much sense." So we did a a little popup shop. I don't know. I I We came He uh he made a uh Hazard. That's his his his company. He made a Hasart Gym Class Heroes collab te for the 20th anniversary. Obviously neon green and [ __ ] and black. And man, there was kids wrapped around the corner. And I mean, this is a storefront, you know what I mean? So we came out and if bro I I [ __ ] you not it felt like back in those VFW days. You know what I mean? Like on the floor with the crowd. There's no barriers. There's not 20 security guards. The crowd's not 20 feet from you. They're right here. Like like y'all can smell my breath type [ __ ] You know what I mean? I can smell y'all's too. But that I missed that so much. And I didn't realize how much I missed it till the other night. Man, I know I'm trailing off here. But no, those were the days. It was magic. It was magic. And and I told Aaron, I was like, "Bro, I don't know what the [ __ ] just happened in there, but keep doing it. If you keep doing it, I'll keep coming back." You know what I mean? It's like, "If you build it, they will come type shit." But like, bro, like I'm I feel like I'm still kind of buzzing off of that, you know? Like, cuz that's how we came up. And you know, like like I said, when Cubids blew up, we got thrown into this whatever the [ __ ] you call it. And um but all we had known for years was no barriers, you know what I mean? Like people grabbing you, going into the crowd and man, I used to there was times where I would just like walk into the crowd just and just lay on the floor and finish a song. You know what I'm saying? Like or or lay on the floor and give give the mic to somebody and they'd finish a song for me type [ __ ] And that intimacy like I I know for a fact like those kids will never forget those shows cuz I don't. And Aaron said that about the other night. It's like, "Yo, these kids are never going to figure this shit." I was like, "Fuck the kids. I'm never going to figure this shit." You know what I'm saying? I mean, I love the kids, but like, "Fuck the kids, too." And that [ __ ] put a battery in my back. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I told uh Brad, my manager, I was like, "Bro, when we put this next record out, make sure you book at least 10 shows like that on every tour. You know what I'm saying? Like, at least. At least." When you put out the next record for Travy McCoy? No. No. No. No. No. No. Gym Class Heroes, man. Wow. You want to get into that conversation, please? Is this a Paper Cut Chronicles 3? N not yet. Not yet. Not yet. It's too early for that. Too early for that. So, yeah. What's happening now, bro? To be honest with you, the past the past eight, nine years have been very trying for me. Like very trying in in all senses of the of the phrase. like um but one thing I had to do was kind of sit back, reassess and rebuild the Gym Class Heroes brand in a sense like um things got to a point where you know like Matt and I like the original member. We pretty much started the band in 10th grade. In 10th grade 97 it's a trip. It's it's it's like I never thought I'd see 30, bro. I'll be 44 this August. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's it's wild. So So Matt and I, you know, like Matt started doing like uh he's always been an amazing producer. He does um soundtracks for podcasts basically and he kills it and he gets to work from home. He's got two daughters and [ __ ] and I think he he kind of got over the toil and tussle of, you know, and I respect it, bro. He's got a family and and also like he's getting paid working from his home studio. Like I'm not I'm not trying to encroach on that, you know what I mean? So we kind we came to like a we came to a decision like hey let's at first I was like let's lay it to rest, you know? And then I was like I sat on it for a while and I was like I've invested too much of my life and myself into Gym Glass Heroes to just let it dissolve, you know? And I was cool with it at first. I was like, "All right." Like, I'd rather lay it to rest than to watch it fizzle out. And, you know what I mean? Like, I've seen a lot of bands kind of, you know, fade into obscurity. And I refuse to let that happen. Yeah. I feel like I feel like not only does gym class mean a lot to me, but bro, like even the other night, like Aaron was like, "Yo, you got real fans." I was like, "Duh." like, "Motherfucker, you think I I've been doing this for this long for nothing?" Like, and they keep me going. But there uh shout out to my home girl, Janine. She was at the pop-up the other day and she was literally on the phone taking orders for other fans to get shirts and he was like, "Yo, I think she bought like 42 shirts." I'm like, "Bro, they they [ __ ] with us." Like, I mean, and also shout out to all the Cali Bordies and Dub, bro. like we our fans like I've always I've always admired bands like the Grateful Dead and Fish who who who uh you know have fans that follow them everywhere they go and you know they record the shows and they trade tapes and that's why why I always try to make gym class heroes shows very intimate and exclusive so like hey like I don't if you because I I noticed that like a lot of our fans were coming to multiple shows like I started seeing same faces I'm like well we can't give these people the same show like we got to make every every show an exper experience, you know what I mean? And that's what great the Grateful Dead and Fish did. And that's why they still have fans to this day that are in their 70s and 80s that will still make it out if they can, you know, um to see whoever's left. But um I I always admired that and, you know, just building a grass grassroots, you know, fan base. And that's why I told Aaron, I was like, "Yo, like we like we literally have fans that have flown to the UK to follow us on tour in the UK and weren't prepared." So I had to buy them all coats and [ __ ] you know what I mean? Like but that I mean that's what family does for family, you know? Like if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't even be in the UK, you know? So yeah, our our fan base is probably one of the illst out there, you know, and I give a shout out to them all the time. So where are we now for the new gym class? Oh yeah, I just went a whole tangent. So, so with that said, um it it took some time, but uh there's a lot of legalities that I had to, you know, like a lot of a lot of rings of fire I had to jump through to finally uh own the name Gym Class Heroes. But it's done. It's done and done. And it's been done. So, with that said, uh the new Gym Class Heroes record is about 90% done. Wow. Yeah. I'm really excited. Really excited. I'm excited. What can you say? Wasn't prepared for this. What can you say about songs, writing process, what they're going to be about? Will it have a similar sound? Well, I'll give you I'll give you the the low the the lowown. Yeah. Give us the skinny. So, uh, a good I mean, I'd say like 75% or maybe even 80% of the record was produced by myself and, uh, Asa from Electric Guest. You ever heard of the band Electric Guest? Mm-m. Really? No, I'm not familiar. Ace is a beast. So, um you know Lonely Island, right? Yeah, of course. Dick in a box. [ __ ] uh he produced it. So, his brother is in Lonely Island. Okay. Um his brother Yorma, he's you know uh pop star, right? The movie Pop Star. He's Owen the DJ. Okay. So, so uh that's Asa's but Asa produces a lot of [ __ ] for Lonely Island. He writes a lot of [ __ ] But, bro, like he's a he's a [ __ ] savant, bro. This dude is I' I've never met anybody 4 foot2 with a [ __ ] a giant [ __ ] energy when he walks in a room. You know what I mean? Like this dude, for some reason the first time we connected and started working, I was like, I don't want to I don't want to work with nobody else. Like I literally don't want to work with anybody else. But you know, I have my I have my I have my crew and [ __ ] But but yeah, like uh Ace and I have been work we've been chugging at it for like the past [ __ ] like maybe two and a half three years now. Wow. And yeah, I I I I just have to say like it's a it's a it's a it's a it's the dawn of a new era for Gym Class Heroes. And that's not to scare anybody because it's I mean if if I'm gonna if I'm going to slap the Gym Class Heroes brand on it, you best believe if you're a Gym Class Heroes fan, you're going to [ __ ] with it. You know what I'm saying? But this it's definitely an evolution. As corny and cliche as that may sound, but uh yeah, your man's getting old, bro. For it. Is there an expected release date? I I want to I want to put it out tomorrow, but you know how things go. And uh we had a discussion the other day, Brad and I, and and or actually Matt and I from Raw Material. And I think uh probably third quarter this year. Oh, so soon. Soon. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And that's just in time for When We Were Youngfest. You already know. You already know. Wow. So even on your your recent solo album, there were hints of Jim Class and it had the pop, it had the rap, it had the lyrical Travy signature sound. This new one's going to be insane. Yo, like are you already envisioning the art the album title? So, yeah. Yeah. So, so whenever uh I go into making a body of work, you know, as opposed to just making songs or, you know, like or or doing features, whatever. Go into a body of work, I can like when every time I finish a song, I can already see the video in my head, you know? So, I'll write out a little treatment like so every everything's being processed as the album's being made. So when it's done, it's like here, [ __ ] Do what you do. I I've done what I can do. Now you do what you do. And I I couldn't be more stoked to be [ __ ] with Raw Material, Brad, and and Matt. Like they they have been holding me down, man. For real. For real. So I have no doubt in my mind that that um anybody who's been [ __ ] with Gym Class Heroes will absolutely love this album, man. For sure. For sure. Will there be a tour as well? Oh, of course, man. Like that. Honestly, I think I low-key want to get this album out sooner just so I can tour. You know what I mean? Like, I love doing oneoffs and and festivals and [ __ ] here and there, but like I miss like [ __ ] you know, like once once you once you get a a taste of that [ __ ] Wait, can you cuss on here? Yeah, please. Once you get once once you get bit by that touring bug, it's a lovehate relationship for the rest of your life, you know? Like, cuz you're first two weeks, you're like, "Ah, this is the shit." last like two weeks before you go home, you're like, "I gotta get home." You get home, three days later, you're like, "Get the [ __ ] out of here. I'm going crazy." You know what I mean? It's like, but yeah. Yeah. So, I'm I'm really looking forward to to getting out there and Yeah. Damn. You got me super excited. Yeah. That's cra lyrically. Did you have stuff written over the past years that you like went back into or was this all new material? Uh, for the most part it's a a lot of [ __ ] was written in the studio with Asa and myself, but uh there were there were songs that there were ideas that I've that have been on my laptop for a while that I thought, "Hey, maybe Asa, what do you think about this?" He's like, "Hold up." And he he'd pull up like a like, you know, like a like a beat that he had started and like, "Oh, that makes complete sense." And then, you know, we'd we'd we'd build it up and then like Yeah. So there there there are some some little uh some uh nuggets that that have been sitting around for a while that I turned polished up a little bit and but uh for the most part it's it's all brand new material and Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to ASA man. How do you approach an album in today's day and age? Because back then physicals were so important and there were like interludes. You had the album artwork on the inside. All that stuff was so fun to create but how are you doing it today? So I I feel like it's still important to like true music lovers, you know? Um, so I like that's another thing. So aside from like, you know, thinking about video treatments and [ __ ] I think about album art work. Like I've there hasn't been an album cover that I haven't had, you know, like 100% artistic, you know? Yeah. For for sure. So do you have a favorite album cover? This as crew without a doubt is Cruel School Children and I I'll tell you why. So, the story behind this and I I got I had my man hired me. Um Dave, he did uh he actually he actually you ever heard of uh Zim the Invader Zim. I had the actor on the podcast. So, the dude that did this, he is now the uh he's the the art he does the comic books now. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Hired me. Shout out to Hired Me. So, um I always come like conceptually I come up with if I don't do the artwork myself, I'll find somebody who can make it happen. So with this uh is it's kind of like this is this kind of represents me and how I felt in high school. You know what I mean? Kids me being different and kids cracking jokes. Aha. Aha. And I don't think I I don't even know if anybody knows this story about the rest of the artwork. Is it in here? Hold on. Cuz it's like a tptic. Hold on. Wait. Does the vinyl not have the whole artwork? Ah shucky ducky. Well, anyways, anybody who has the CD, make sure you open it. I'll And this will it'll make it make sense for you. So, we'll do it together. Yeah. Yeah. For real. So, on the on the on the on the front cover, you know, this kid's like happiest happy as [ __ ] in his in his own skin, and you could tell everybody else is kind of like monotone cuz they're all in their own world, whatever. So, on the on the next page, it's the same image. He's smiling, but they're all confused like, "Why is he still smiling?" like we're making fun of him, you know what I mean? Like he's still smiling away. And the third, it's the same picture of him and he's got his hands like and then everybody in the back has his haircut and they're wearing the same shirt as him. And it's kind of like a metaphor for like I'm not going to change who the [ __ ] I am to suit you guys. You know what I mean? But if you I guarantee you I guarantee you at at some point uh it's going to make sense and I'll probably be pointing my finger at you because you're like you were laughing at what you're trying to be now if that makes any sense. Yeah, it does. So, can we go back to even when you were recording this album Sam and Sluggo? You were on Decadence. Yes. Yes. Shout out to Pete. What did you go into with this? Were you trying to top Paper Cut? You know, was there a lot of pressure for that? Oh, there Well, it wasn't the pressure wasn't necessarily about For me, it wasn't about uh outdoing Paper Cut Chronicles. This was our first time working with producers, you know. So, this was the first time that we we had people, you know, we had Sam Hollander and uh and Dave Catz logo and actually Patrick, too. And we had never like we we had only worked with engineers. So like whenever we recorded, we had everything super rehearsed, you know, cuz we didn't have time we didn't have time to waste money in the studio, you know, like I'd have it was to the point where like I'd even have my adlibs written in, so I knew, you know, like exactly what I was doing when so we didn't waste any money. Wow. And now we're in this, you know, this expensive studio with Yeah. And I'm like, okay, this is different. and and you know we start talking you know like talking about music we're into [ __ ] we're listening to and like I and there's a huge 80s influence on that album obviously um that's where my head was at at the time uh that's where my head's at mostly usually is like in the 80s but um and I expressed that to them but it was also the first time that I my ideas had gotten shot down and I didn't know how to take it. I'm like, "Wait, this is my shit." Like, they're like, "Yeah, that's cool, but like I don't know." I'm like, "What the [ __ ] you mean you don't know?" Like, you wait, what you like? And I I literally I'm like, "Wait a minute. These guys have been doing this [ __ ] their entire lives. Like, who the [ __ ] am I to come in here?" Like, and I had to talk to I actually had to excuse myself and go to the bathroom like, "Chill out, Trav. I think they I they know what they're talking about, you know?" And but it was also the first time I I I've ever I've ever had like criticism, you know, if it with outside of uh the three guys in gym class. And I I I literally just had to humble myself and like listen and not not necessarily take like take everything that they said, you know, as gospel, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot. You know what I mean? But I will say this, there were times where like I'd be like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." And then Patrick would show up and then I'd get behind Patrick like, "Tell them Pat. Tell I mean like Patrick was like cuz I didn't, you know, like I didn't know how to talk to these dudes like you. I mean, these are seasoned veterans like cuz they did like all those albums at that time, bro. Like well after Well, I don't know what they did before. And I know I know I know what they did before this, but you guys were at the front of their run. Well, I'm pretty sure um yeah, we we kind of put Sam and Dave back in the game, and they they gave us probably one of the dopest records we made, so I can't I can't be too mad, but like like Patrick was my [ __ ] I don't want to say bodyguard, but he was like my safe space. Like whenever he'd come, I'd be like, "Patrick, tell me I don't like this. Tell me." Hey guys, like I think and I I just didn't have the the wherewithal to to express that, you know, at the time. Now I don't give a [ __ ] If I don't like something now, I'm like, "Fuck out of here." Like, or somebody, "Yo, Trev, I like this, but you should do like this. You should eat a dick." You know what I'm saying? Leave me the [ __ ] alone. This is why I do what I do, and this is why you do what you do. So, let's do what we do. You know what I mean? But yeah, it was it was a weird time, but like the album wouldn't exist without that weird tension, and you know, like that back and forth and awkwardness, man. Like, damn. Did it just make sense for Patrick to hop on the songs then? He was there. He was there. And like not only that, like getting some of those those clearances would probably have cost us a lot more than uh getting uh Super [ __ ] clear for Chokeold did. But it was worth it though, man. It was worth it. Like uh shout out to Roger Hodson. Um yeah, he he did us dirty, bro. But I will say as much as much uh as they took publishing wise or as he took publishing wise for for Cupids. Um and they made also made us add in uh parentheses breakfast in America. Cupid's chokeold breakfast in America. That was part of the contingency or whatever. They wanted that in there. Yeah. It was so man it was so corny. But I can't deny what that song did for us, you know, at all. At all. Why' they want the parenthesis in there? He just wanted he just wanted to he wanted people to know that it was their [ __ ] I'm like anybody who you know I mean like people are gonna know like I would hope you know what I'm saying or if not like Yeah. So but he he he just wanted to wanted it to be felt that hey this is a super [ __ ] you know like [ __ ] out of here man like we're making you guys cool again right? You know what I'm saying? Like whatever. What was your favorite single off that? cuz I saw online that Queen and I was supposed to be played at Kimmel, but then they did a last second switch for Cubid's chokeold. So Queen and I was the first it was going to it was Queen and I was the first single. That was the lead one. Yeah. Yeah, we did a video and um Great video by the way. Thank yo to this day I don't know I want I want to make this [ __ ] Can we make this a thing? To this day you remember there was the queen in the video, right? I don't know this chick's name. I I mean it was it was like my first I guess like kind of big budget video. It wasn't even a big budget, but like it had money behind it. Yeah, a little bit. Like I mean with that we paid $250 to make the video for Taxi Driver. So anything above a thousand was big money to me. But for some reason the queen from that video has been like literally like what's the word? Um, bro, like uh she she in her head she thinks that she's really a queen and I'm the dude. She's gone, bro. She's gone. Like it's scary. Like it's scary. Like sometimes I'll I'll you know I'll I'll open up IG or something and it'll be like your queen's still here waiting for you. I'm like it's a [ __ ] video. Like I I I spoke to you three times. Like I don't it's just want to put that out there. Please leave me alone. Thank you. Thank you for Thank you for being the queen in the video, but like stop it, you creep. Did you have any other underrated songs on that album? Cuz I thought shoot down the stars was phenomenal. Yeah, shoot down and and Seven Weeks We Viva Love White Girl. There's so there's so many. And like the the the remix with Wayne for Viva like that that happened like I to shout out to my man V. Edelman. Um he was working at Crush at the time and I was like Z like you think Wayne would do a verse on this? He's like I don't know. Let's see. Is he texting him? I think he was emailing Mac or either Mac or uh Cortez uh Wayne's uh manager at the time. I [ __ ] you not. Two days later we had the Wayne verse. Like he's like you ready? I'm like for what? He says it to me. I'm like bro. And like then I I won't forget that. I'm driving through Midtown Manhattan. Hot 97's on and they're like, "Yo, here's a brand new one. Lil Wayne, gym class heroes." I'm like, "Get the and yo." And like the Hot 97 had it in regular rotation the remix and I was like, damn. Like this is this is different, you know? But yeah, I feel like there's a lot of sleepers on as Cruel School children, you know? So many. The fact that you even brought up Scandal Scholastic Scholastic Scholastics is crazy. I can't even say this [ __ ] Can we go on to the quilt? Absolutely. Oh, it's crazy that you want to because literally like four days ago I I for some reason uh Oh, I I sent a friend of mine uh uh Papa Song. Um and for some I decided to listen to that whole album front to back. And afterwards I texted Patrick and I was like, "Yo, I this is random as [ __ ] but I just listen to the cool. I just want to thank you like sincerely." I I reach out to him randomly all the time, but like after listening to that album, like that [ __ ] wouldn't have happened without him. Like, and how did he influence it? Well, [ __ ] he was in the studio just as much as we were. So, so after as cruel as school as cruel as school children, um, we knew that we wanted to work with Patrick again, you know what I mean, as a producer? For sure. For sure. And um he I mean there were there were beats that we didn't use or that beat beats that he sent me that you know had just been on my computer from those days and a couple of them made it on the quilt. But um it was it was a pretty dark time in my life. Uh so the guys and Patrick were in the studio crushing and I'm dealing with like you know a lot a lot of dark [ __ ] but I'm still trying to do my part, you know, writing lyrics and [ __ ] And I show up to the studio and these guys are crushing. And I'm like, damn. Like I just felt like I always I felt like I kept bringing like this dark cloud into the studio. I was like, "Let me exit stage left. Let these guys keep going." And then it got to a point where like I showed up and they're they're like, "All right, dude. We did our part. Get it in." Like, "All right." So like literally went in and it just like crushed song after song after song. And uh it was tough. It was tough, but like I will say I I I couldn't have done it without Patrick, man. Like he was like there like, "Hey, Trav, like you're meant to do this shit." You know what I'm saying? Like show them show them you've you've already showed them like now show them what that what that level up looks like, you know? And so I got I got really really really personal on that album. Um, it didn't it the quilt didn't perform as well as they would hope it did, but for me it was it needed to be done, you know, like some [ __ ] I really need to get off my chest and um I'm stoked about it and the artwork too. I still have that paint. Shout out to Josh Clay who did the artwork for that album. Um, so you know, as it rolls out, it's like the whole carnival scary [ __ ] but it's actually a huge painting uh huge acrylic painting that he did. But um that's one of my favorite records, man. For those songs, where did you approach each song knowing what you were gonna write about or how do you lyrically create what you were doing? I think uh I for the most part, you know, I'm I'm constantly writing, you know, um even to this day. Yeah. Yeah. All the time. Like my notes are like it's ridiculous. Poems all like it could I mean I could write a could write like two bars or a sentence even and go through my notes and see that sentence like and oh that's a song. You know what I mean? Let me just piggy back off suss it out. Exactly. So, um, but there there also times where I would just be, you know, they they would put something on loop and I would just sit there and so sometimes I write in the studios, sometimes I come prepared, but like whatever hits me, there's all there's 99.9% there's something in my notes that will congeal with that, you know? Right. I've never said that word congeal before, but it works. Congeal. How do you get Buster Rhymes on this song? Did you guys already know each other? Nah. So, that that was a I I believe that was a move on my man Riggs behalf. Shout out to Riggs. Uh Rigs became our ANR around that time at Atlantic. And Rigs helped Eminem start Shady Records and and now he's the head head of ANR at Atlantic. And once he came on the team, I I felt the same way that I felt when Patrick come in the studio. I was like, "All right, now I like I don't got to talk to these label people anymore. I just go to rigs and I stand behind him like tell them I said this, tell them I said this. You know what I mean? It was the same [ __ ] But um yeah, shout out to Rigs, man. He uh Yeah, I just got lost in my thought again. Did you ever find yourself in a in a really shitty label situation? Because you now you're dealing with all these major labels and so many people are trying to take a piece of the pie, you're being thrown on late night, the albums are getting sales, you're doing crazy tours, you're headlining everywhere. How do you not find yourself lost in all of it? Well, I did I did find myself lost and uh um I I I dealt with a a terrible terrible uh uh I had a So, when I was 19, I uh messed up my knee and I've had like six knee knee surgeries, you know what I mean? Oh, wow. That's a scar. Oh, it's bad. It goes all the way up here. And so, they they I tore my ACL, MCL, and broke and twisted the meniscus. So, six surgeries and they put me on Oxycontton and I had no idea, you know, what the [ __ ] it was. They just like, "Here, just take two of these." And and when I ran out, I got sick as hell. I was like, "What the [ __ ] is going on?" Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm I was in I wasn't into hard drugs when I was 17 or 18. Like, I smoked weed, you know, I mean, cigarettes, but this [ __ ] was practically heroin, you know? And I went to the doctor. I was like, "Bro, like I can't I haven't slept in 4 days. Like I I my legs like what's going on?" He's like, "Well, what what medication are you on?" I said, "This this this." He's like He's like, "We're going to have to put you we're going to have to wean you off the Oxycontton." I'm like, "What the [ __ ] you mean wean me off?" He's like, "Well, it's it's a it's a narcotic opiate." And I'm like, "The [ __ ] is that?" Like, you know what I mean? He's like, "Trust me, we'll we'll taper you off." And I was like, "If this [ __ ] is gonna make me feel like this, I don't want no parts of it." So, I literally went home and I was like two months like felt like straight ass. Like, I couldn't couldn't get off the couch. Like, bro, it was And mind you, I'm I have a I have a cast from here to here. So, I'm like I'm in a wheelchair and [ __ ] and and still playing shows with gym class like in a from a wheelchair with a boom stand just like this like with my leg up like dead ass. But um I refused to to like take him again. I was like nah. Like so you quit cold turkey. Cold turkey. And I was good. I was good for like two and a half, three years like after the hell, you know, after the the the withdrawals and all that. And then one random night at a party, my boy's like, "Yo, I got these Oxy I got these OC80s." And I had the 40 milligram ones and they had me in a [ __ ] chokeold. Like for real, for real. A devil's choke hole. [ __ ] Cupid. Like it was the devil's chokeold. But um one random night my friend's like, "Yo, I got these 80s blah blah." But and I don't I don't I don't want to I don't want to make this I don't want to like feel I don't want to feel like I'm uh making it enticing. Yeah. But but I never exped and bro like if you ever again I'm not I I don't want to I don't want to It's not cool. It's not It's really not cool. But um I just remember uh somebody somebody uh I guess ex explaining what it was like the first time they had done something like that and homie was just like imagine what it's like to kiss God. And I was like like and it hit me so hard. I was like, he's kind of he's kind of right. You know, like if kissing God cost is worth [ __ ] 10 years of heartache and terrible relationships and burning bridges, I don't want to kiss God ever. You know what I'm saying? Like I'll shake his hand and [ __ ] but I ain't kissing him ever. When When what years was this? Uh it's it's it's fuzzy, but I've I've been clean for for over 14 years now. So, congrats. off the opiates. That's huge. Thank you, man. I appreciate Appreciate it. For show. For show. It's tough. It's tough. Don't romanticize any of this [ __ ] It's not cool, bro. And [ __ ] all the musicians out there that are trying to make the [ __ ] cool. Being dead ain't cool, fam. It's not. And rest in peace to all my people who have fell victim to that [ __ ] Miss you, Mac. Can we jump into your solo stuff? Mhm. How does Billionaire come out? You really want to know, please? Cuz you were you were everywhere and then out of nowhere it was like the solo with Billionaire non-stop radio play. So this is wild. So uh shout shout out to Aaron Bayook. Uh Aaron uh at the at the time this is 2009 late 200 2010. Well the album came out 2010 right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like 2008 2009, Aaron Bayuk was my when I when I when I started working on solo [ __ ] Aaron Aaron Bashuk became my uh ANR and he was like, "Yo, I got these dudes named the Smezingtons out in LA I think you would [ __ ] with." Was it SME was the Smezing Sneezington? It's I Yo, if if you go back and listen to Lazarus and uh the uh Dr. feel good. I go, "Shout out to the SME." I I couldn't even say it right. I like shout out to the Smeingtons. Were they a writing group? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, so the Smezing Smezing Smezingtons were Bruno uh Philip Lawrence and Ari Lavine. And so I came out um they played me a couple jams and not only but what what pulled me is they were just so [ __ ] fun. They like they bro they could finish each other's sentences. They had been working for years together. Finish each other's sentences. yo, comedic genius. Like their timing was just and it was like it wasn't even it was effortless and I'm like, "Oh, I can rock with these guys." Wait, but then I get to make music with them, too. So, it was I was sold like the first session. So, uh they played me a couple jams and I hit I hit Aaron. I was like, "Yo, I [ __ ] with these dudes. I'll stay out here and see what happens, you know?" And I think one of the first songs we did was Dr. Feelgood. And then um we got CEO on that which was crazy. But I remember Bruno playing the demo for Billionaire. And a lot of people don't know this. I'm about to give you an exclusive. Please. So the original topline for billionaire was I want to be a billionaire so [ __ ] bad. Buy all of the things I never had. I want to be on the cover of Forbes magazine standing next to Diddy and the Queen. Now hold up. Hold up. I said, Bruno, I [ __ ] with this, but that did Diddy line gotta go, bro. Like, I I I I don't know. Like, I just don't feel I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to sing this song. I I I I knew that song had hit potential. I knew it. But I was like, I don't want to say standing next to De and the Queen every night. I don't even [ __ ] with Diddy like that. Now, that was that intuition? I don't know. But I I made him change it and and thank God he did. Thank god he did. Not that I like Oprah that much more. But it just makes more sense. It makes more sense. You know what I'm saying? And I don't think they'd be playing billionaire right now if it says standing next to Titty in a So once that song gets released, is is it just all over the airwaves? Literally I I thought I thought the whole Cupid [ __ ] was like I had my head spun, but this was I'm like what? And I think I I honestly I think I went to the UK with Yeah, I went to the UK with Bruno and did a tour and by the time we came back it was over. Like it was everywhere. Like the virus had went viral. Crazy. It was nutty. It was absolutely nutty because that's over a billion streams just on Spotify. Now, imagine if Spotify was a thing then. That part. That part. Yeah. Wow. So, it's that's another thing, too. It's like sometimes I I get in in in my head and I'm like, damn. Like, you know, we kind of we kind of started in the the era of hard hard sales and I remember I remember filling out sound scan sheets and sending them in and [ __ ] I'm like, damn. like had we had we uh you know or I don't want to say had we came out during this era or had this happened earlier you know the Spotify and the Apple all that [ __ ] happened when we came out where the [ __ ] would we be right now you know cuz like [ __ ] like a lot of the plaques that I have are for hard hard sales you know what I mean so like when I get the plaques now it's cool but like I'm like streams don't they don't touch my heart the way hard sales touched my heart you know what I'm Right. Cuz I remember going to Best Buy picking it up. Going to FYE picking it up. How many plaques is billionaire? I mean, I have I have I think I have three or four. So every time someone's telling you six. Six. So it's six times platinum. So I have crazy. So I have four different plaques. Like So I think we skipped a couple a couple uh times, but I have four plaques. So I guess it's six times. What the [ __ ] Wait, how how many is diamond? That's like a hundred 10 million for real. So I'm four from diamond. Shout out to Brad. You mean come on. Raw material. We're getting information there's over 10 million sales. Yo. Wow. I was unaware of that. Like that's crazy. It's nutty. And Paper Cut Chronicles just sold 500,000 physical sales in the past 6 months, which I just recently found out. And so now damn, that's a 20 year anniversary surprise. Absolutely. I'm glad to celebrate it here with you, man. That's crazy, Brad. Damn. Yeah. So, I guess the Paper Good Chronicles just went gold after 20 years. Damn. Do you like getting all those plaques? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. At first I was a little It was a little weird like uh when I first started getting them, you know, I had like first thing you see when you come in the crib, I'm like, it's a little corny. So now I keep them in the studio. You know what I'm saying? Like so when you go to use the bathroom, you can be like, "Oh, okay. Okay." You know what I mean? So it's nice. It's nice. Yeah, I don't try to flex too hard, but yeah, that's that's an accomplishment, man. Like every every plaque that I have, it's like like, "All right, Dad. All those times you punished me here, motherfucker." It's like it was it wasn't for Neil, you know? Is there a favorite song regardless of how it did, but just a song that means the most to you? Oh, like that that didn't like necessarily blow up or Yeah, for there's a lot. Um, in fact, uh, I was talking to Brad the other day. I'm sorry I keep mentioning Brad. He's he's off camera right now, my manager. But, uh, Kid Nothing, uh, the last song, the Paper Cut Paper Cut Chronicles one. Um, that song means it means the world to me because it's just basically like after the entire record, this is me saying, "All right, cool. if I didn't let you into all that [ __ ] or or you know like expose all that [ __ ] about myself or if I didn't you know like if if I didn't make you excited by my my rapping prowess or or all these things I did and I was just a normal dude and I came up to you and said hello would you still give me the same treatment? You know what I mean? Like and it's it's it's be and that that idea came from doing shows and like you know people come up to me all the time like oh I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. No. I'm like no you don't. you don't even know me, you know? You you have no idea who I am. Like, but then I'm like, wait a minute. Like, they do know me. Like, like I bled my heart out on that album, you know what I mean? So, and I feel like that's why the album connects with a lot of people. So, then I had to like take a step back like, "All right, bro. You're tripping." Like, but like there there was also like this uh I don't know, it's like this feeling like, "All right, cool. I appreciate I appreciate the love, but like if I was just a normal regular ass 6 foot6 biracial dude walking down the street and said hello, would you still give me the same love and attention? you know, um, we actually ended up doing a part two on the Paper Cut Chronicles 2, which is a continuation of that song, kind of talking on the same [ __ ] But from the perspective of the experience that I've had between those two records, you know, like and all right, yeah, they wouldn't answered my question. Like, they wouldn't give me the same attention. But it's cool, man. It's cool. But yeah, I [ __ ] with I [ __ ] with uh Kid Nothing. There's also um there's a song called Coming Clean on the Quilt that I love. It's one of the last songs and uh it's basically me um expressing to the girl that I was with at the time that I've been cheating on her, but I've been cheating on her with music. I'm like, you know, so it's like like it's called coming clean and it's like me sitting her down saying, "Hey, like this music [ __ ] is starting to get a little serious, you know, and I I don't know if I can maintain two relationships cuz like I'm completely in love with this chick, you know what I mean? And I love you too, but I don't know." You know what I mean? And so it was hard. It was hard playing that song for my girlfriend at the time, but she understood it. You know what I'm saying? And we haven't been together for I mean, we didn't we didn't last too much longer after that. But, but yeah, that song coming clean, that that one still strikes a cord with me, man. For sure. Your vulnerability and your honesty and your lyrics is why these albums still hold up all these years later. Yeah, I think that's why I still make them, you know? Like, it it it's it's free therapy. My therapist is $250 [ __ ] dollars an hour, bro. like this [ __ ] is free for the most part. For the most part. How does Stereo Hearts with Adam Lavine come in? Oh, how does that get made? This is a funny story actually. Um, so, so now like now we're in the mix, you know, like we're in the mucky muk and we're going, you know, we're in rooms with writers and producers and I met Benny Blanco. Hit it off right away. Dick jokes all day. I'm like, "Oh, we're cut from the same cloth." You know, classic Benny. Absolutely. Like all he does is talk about dicks all day. Shout out to Benny. Um and uh so like like our sessions, oh I miss those sessions so much because we do six, seven hour session, five hours would be dick jokes and [ __ ] us bullshitting and then two those last two hours we'd make one or two hits like hits legitimate hits. You know what I mean? It was always about like getting comfortable, having fun, and but music was always second in those sessions. And that's one thing I miss, you know? I don't say I missed, but it's actually one thing I learned and I bring into sessions that I do now. I'm like, let's let's get comfortable, you know what I mean? Like I don't you mean like I've been into too many sessions where I'm just like like trying to gauge everybody's temperature. I'm like, I'm here to work, man. But I I've realized that like break the ice a little bit. break some bread if you have to, smoke something if you have if you have to and you know have a conversation like and that's how th those those sessions went and uh Ask back home was I think that was one I think we did ass back home before we did Stereo Hearts and that's when I was like oh like Benny got some [ __ ] Benny got some [ __ ] bro and uh then he played me Stereo Hearts and soon as he played it I went like I'm like I I already had the uh literally after I heard the the reference. Shout out to Amir who wrote who wrote the uh the top line for that. Um my heart's a Yeah. Yeah. My man Amir wrote that. He's a he's a beast, bro. I think he might have wrote the top line for Stereo or for uh Ask Back Home, too. But um I already saw the uh like the it just I just saw a movie in like I was like all right I'm the stereo you know like uh I just saw the concept in my head. So I just started writing like if I was just another dusty record on the show would you blow me off and play me like and like and it just started it started coming out naturally and then I went in the booth I spit it for Ben Benny. He was just like what the [ __ ] And I was like yes cuz I I I that was my thing. I was like, I would never like, "Hey guys, what do you think about this?" I would just write my [ __ ] go in and spit it and just watch the reaction, you know? So, I did the first verse. He was just like I was like, "Yeah." So, cut all the ver cut all the verses and we're just like, "Yo, this is out of here." He's like, "Yo, Trap, I think Adam really, really, really wants this song." I'm like, "So," he's like, "But uh like you just crushed this shit." I'm like, "So, what are you saying to me, bro?" He's like, "Uh, you think we should get him on the hook?" I'm like, "Hell yeah, why not?" But low key, I didn't know that he was like, "Adam really, really wanted Stereo Hearts." But after I after I laid those verses, Benny was like, "Nah, bro." Like, so what they did was that I think I I'm pretty sure that same night he he made moves like Jagger and sent it to to Adam just like, "Hey, bro. you it listen here's this but would you mind singing the hook on stereo arts you know what I mean and so I'm like I had never been in like a a weird situation like that but like the fact that that Benny like you know he had the wherewithal to be like yo like Travy killed these verses I can't you know just toss this but let me let me not make Adam upset but I believe moves like Jagger was written for a chick originally I think I think the actually I think it was written for Christina I think that's why she's on Yeah, I think I think originally the hook was he's got them moves like Jagger. He's got them and Adam took it and was like, I got them moves like Jagger, but Benny making that [ __ ] saved uh stereo hearts. Exactly. Exactly. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That almost didn't happen. Well, I don't think Benny would have done that to me, man. Especially when I snapped on him versus like that, you know? Yeah. I think I think he knew that like but I mean Maroon's Maroon 5 still plays that [ __ ] at every show like it's their [ __ ] anyways so [ __ ] it. Were those times like the best just coming out to LA writing sessions with Benny Blanco for sure. I Well actually Benny and I did most of that work in in New York. Yeah. Most of most of our sessions were in New York. Um that was at a time Benny I don't know I'm not sure if he's still like this but Benny doesn't fly. He didn't fly at the time. He doesn't now. Okay. So he he'd always drive across country or if he had to go overseas, he'd take a boat, a [ __ ] would take a boat to the UK type [ __ ] Um, so yeah, most of our our sessions were in New York, but we had some a few out here, but I feel like the the New York sessions were more fruitful for some reason. I think I felt more comfortable there, right? Yeah. But now I like I come out like I feel comfortable out here working, but anything over two weeks, I start losing my [ __ ] bro. I don't know. Back to New York. My feet don't fit the concrete out here, bro. How come that album became Paper Cut Chronicles 2? Did that Was there like a tear in your head of what that meant to you? I'll explain exactly why that album became what it was. And I I low key I I lowkey feel like I let our fans down in a sense. I'm just going to be open and honest with you. It's probably the first time I ever said this, but um the Paper Cut Chronicles 2 was actually supposed to be my second solo record. Um it was it was supposed to be called Icarus and Lazarus then Icarus and um some of the guys in the band had kind of [ __ ] up their financial situations for like the third or fourth time. I'm not going to [ __ ] on nobody, but they [ __ ] up their their their money and uh so I had literally had like this album about 80% in in the [ __ ] can and I was so excited and I was like I can't, you know, like [ __ ] I can't let my boys, you know, like and plus the the solo thing and it was never like a it was never meant to be like a a ongoing thing, you know? I was like, let me let me just finish this and then we'll get back to work with gym class. But like cuz the soloist thing also brought eyes to gym class. Absolutely. And that's why you know one hand washes the other. Both hands wash the face. And that's how I always looked at it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So um Yeah. So essentially like we came to agreement. I was like listen I have this [ __ ] album. Well it wasn't a whole album completely but it was a it was it was there you know the concept. It was there. I was like, yo, like let's throw ourselves into this and make it the Paper Cut Chronicles 2, which was like if my idea for the sequel for Paper Cut Chronicles 2, I wanted to be just not to say it wasn't as effective or not to say that I hate Paper Cut Chronicles 2. The album's amazing, you know? It's just that like it's not the Paper Cut Chronicles 2 that I wanted it to be. And I feel like it's not the Paper Cut Chronicles 2. A lot of our core fans wanted it to be. You know what I mean? What did they want it to be? More rap. I don't think they wanted to be another one of the another like I feel like um you know, like we were talking earlier, a lot of people connected because of how open and vulnerable I was. I think, not that I wasn't open and vulnerable on Paper Cut Chronicles 2, but I just had a whole different trajectory for how PCC2 was supposed to sound, which uh when I do part three, it'll make a lot more sense then. You know, it's crossing your mind at least for a PCC. Oh, it's been crossing my mind for [ __ ] 15, 16 years now, you know? Right. For real. For real. Do you want to Do you want to break and eat or anything? Are you good? Yeah, if you don't mind. Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. All right, cool. What do you collect now? Everything. Like you're huge in collectibles. It's bad. It's bad. What's the stupidest amount of money you spent on something? There's this this this uh artist named Ashley Wood. Um I believe he's Australian. I'm obsessed with them. And he has this toy company called 3A and they're kind of like Barbie dolls for men. They're like they're like uh they're 12inch figures, but they I mean they come with outfits. I'm talking about I mean down to the bone detail like zippers like shoes with sho strings like oh wow plaid pants with leather uh leather um suspenders and you know it's ridiculous. So you get a chance to look up 3A and they they go for about four or 500 a pope and I have a lot of them. My ex-wife used to call them my uh my man my man Barbie dolls. [ __ ] it. Was there a moment where you really felt like you achieved rockstar status? This is so crazy. I Yo, like I used to get asked that question all the time and then there was like this lull where I hadn't been asked that question and I just got asked that question maybe a week ago when I got inducted into the Rochester Music Hall of Fame. And I remember back in the day like whenever I would was asked that question I'd always give a different answer because there there I mean everything I feel like it's a constant you know like there's always things I'm like oh [ __ ] I never thought this would happen. I never thought this would happen. Um so I always had different answers for that question. And I guess to answer it right now the way I answered it last week was for instance there was one time uh Kanye did a show in Vegas. The old Kanye He did a show in Vegas and he literally stops the entire show and he's like, "Yo, I was on my way over here in the car and the song was playing on the radio and I told my driver I said, "Hey, roll the window down. Turn that [ __ ] up." And he's like, "Yo, DJ, play that shit." And I hear I'm like, and there's a video of it. I was like, and Pete sent me the link and I was like, "This can't be real life." You know what I mean? So at that point I was like god damn Kanye's playing Cubis chokeold in the middle of stopping the entire set to play Cubis chokeold like and dancing around and [ __ ] Then like uh a few years ago somebody sent me a video of LeBron dancing in his backyard to Cubis chokeold and I'm like all that shit's cool. But um I said that to say this like uh I've been obsessed like I'm I'm still obsessed with like early 90s hip-hop. Um, and I've always like boot camp click like Smith and Wesson, Black Moon, Heltera Skelta, all that Sean P, all that [ __ ] Like that's like my heart, you know what I mean? And long story short, I ended up meeting those dudes and I I expressed to them like like how much that they meant to me growing up. And they sent me a a huge box of merch, like Duck Down merch, boot. I was just ah and then a couple weeks later uh I got a I got a text message from uh Drew who runs uh who runs Duck Down Records and he's like, "Yo, we're doing uh Smith and Wesson's doing a show at Knitting Factory. You should come through." Like, "Sure." So, I put my Duck Down hoodie on. I roll in. You know what I mean? Like fanboy type [ __ ] you know what I mean? And I I come in, it's packed, and they're like, "Yo, my man Travis in the building. Trav, come up and I'm like, "Uh, uh, come up where?" Like, so I go on stage and we literally just freestyled for like a half an hour. Like all of us, it was the most amazing [ __ ] ever. So, like, it's [ __ ] like that, you know what I mean? Where where this has allowed me to not only hang out with my heroes, but to interact and and be creative with my heroes. You know what I mean? Like, so [ __ ] like that is the stuff that that tickles my titties. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I feel like we hit everything. I'd love to real quick. Never slept better. Yeah. Yeah. That was a one album deal. Yeah. Yeah. Is there talks of doing another solo? Is that on your mind? Do you want to do any more? I mean, right now, uh I mean, Never Slept Better was the probably the most therapeutic album I've ever made. You know what I mean? You could hear it in your lyrics. Yeah. I was going through some [ __ ] if you couldn't tell. But um yeah, I feel like um I feel like the album serve served its purpose and I feel like right now gym class is the focus, you know what I mean? Like it's it's the main focus. Um but there's there but there's also some there's times where I write songs where I'm like it doesn't feel like gym class to me, you know? So those get put in another folder and we'll see what happens, you know? But yeah, gym class is definitely definitely on the on the uh the front burner right now. New album later this year. Absolutely. Stoked for it. Thank you so much for making the time. Thanks for coming by. Thanks. Thanks for having me, Joe. I appreciate you, brother. This has been an honor. Truly. Word up. Cool. Thanks so much for listening and leave a comment down below. Thumbs up. Hit subscribe. Love your life and your mom. You only get one. Lightweights out. That was great. Thank you so much. Thank you.