Transcript for:
Sources of Service Law

knowledge and we were getting a lot of requests that on youtube we can find all sessions on different aspects of law but there is one service law aspect which you normally don't find you find one particular session etc but be that as it may we had requested mr ps raja kupal and trivikram and his associates were kind enough to connect with mr ps gopal at one point of time therefore in this legal journey we have connected together to take a series approximately it will be more than 10 sessions and those who are connected with us or those who have missed it can always connect with us to have the latest updates of service law aspects more so and other issues which will be taking on the beyond law clc and those who have missed the earlier sessions of mr ps raja kupal or for that matter all of the speakers can like subscribe and share to that channel of beyond law clc to understand how the legal journey by beyond law clc to decimate knowledge not only on law and beyond that different soft skills have also been explained one issue since we are taking the series in a chronological manner we thought why not take a particular session in this way so that we can understand right from the basics how the service law is introduced therefore the sources of service law is the top topic for today wherein we discuss act rules executive instructions circulars and office hours the meticulousness of mr ps raja kupal can understand that we could we had placed all these words in a different pattern he said no this is not the way it has to be put in a chronological manner you can have alphabets but to make it a word and a sentence and then paragraph and then what they say the story and the journey of servicenow it has to be in a chronology in a short one minute he told me that what is the relevance of drafting for any particular aspect be that as it may even of a flyer without taking much time you will ask through vikram who is a knowledge partner with us today to in the end of the session to stage issues since people are waiting to have the trigger off as they say the launching pad for the service law series and we are always indebted and will continue to remain indebted to mr ps raja gopal who always shares his knowledge be that as it may even on the latest judgment if we say by monday so we wanted session on friday wednesday he has been kind enough so akin to his name he is king of hearts and continues to share his knowledge what do you sir mr vikas trivikram and colleagues in the profession and those of you who are not advocates for a giant business when vikas requested me that i have to do a series on service law first i was perplexed because most of us know and most of you know service lie is mostly made law i would say and then judgment because liars would have argued and judges would have if it has appealed to them they would have incorporated these judgments but then i found the though lawyers have been largely responsible for development of service level basics of this are elsewhere therefore i said we start with sources of service now to why i am starting with these sessions there are different sources like of course source for all laws in the country is the constitution then within the constitution or within the framework of the constitution various other enactments are made by the legislature within the delegated powers by the legislative enactment statutory rules are made and then comes executive instructions office orders circulars office memorandum a plethora of sources center therefore the hierarchy of these sources which would prevail over the other is most important therefore i thought we will start from sources of service law then we will go into the individual aspects for the particular subjects within the broad canvas of service level before before we go into the question as to the sources of service law i would like to broadly please before you the three different branches of our three different shades of employment we see in the country first of course growing by size the largest is employment and the private sector then comes employment under public sector corporations government controlled bodies which are not structural and then i would say services under the dawn now about 25 years ago if you had asked me classify the employments i would have first created the government service then i would have come to the public sector employment and then of course the other bodies now though the government is huge governmental organizations are huge the employment under the government is dwindling governmental sector also is dwindling and simultaneously there is a growth in the employment under the private sector therefore i have changed the order based on numerical strength a few words i should say at this stage about employment under private sector because though it is the largest employment provider there is not much of service law in so far as employment under non-state sector is concerned they are those employments are governed by straight and simple contractor if it was pure and simple contract out also it would have been tolerable for the workforce but there is one important hindrance when it comes to service law under a private employee that is non-enforceability of contract of personal service now in the under the specific performance act the specifically fact contracts of personal service are not specifically enforceable no call can grant a decree of specific performance or of contractors employment therefore if an employee is wrongfully terminated it cannot be treated as breach of contract and what the employee or ex-employee would be would be entitled to will only be damages therefore the services under the private employer cannot strip close and so be said to be covered by service law it is called by contract law or law of contracts in which enforceability of contract of personal service is also virtually negated by section 14 of the specifically fact but one exception which may give rise to a larger quantum of damages is that even in private sector an unconscionable contract which is opposed to public policy has laid down by section 23 of the contract act that would not be continents even in private employment this difference between contract of service the with the this uh emphasis song unconscionable terms in contract even in private employment under the contract that has been highlighted by justice madame in a case arising from termination of a public sector empire not in this set this has not come in any private sector employment case and subsequently the law laid down in central inland water transport corporation limited versus rajanath gongoli that has been extended to commercial contracts also where the courts have perceived that the bargaining power between the two parties is unequal this i this has nothing to do with our main discourse on service law but i thought it is necessary to emphasize the difference because as practicing advocates we come across many times particularly from this software sector and then where it is totally unorganized because they think that uh if i get organized organization strength will become my career progression that instinct of selfishness is more in the so called white collar or cold callers it is not that much in blue-collar blue-colored employees but economic reality in the country is that slowly they are also losing in organization therefore as advocate you'll be facing daily sir i have been dismissed from service i have been asked to resign this is the most common feature of easing out an employee in private sector these days they will call the employee ask him to sit in a virtual gas chamber like what i can say a torture chamber and until they sign on their resignation letter they would not be allowed to go it is virtually confining an employee and extracting a resignation better those all those cases are coming to their profits the first thing we have to tell is look you cannot go to hyper you will have to go to the civil call even if you go to civil court you cannot get re-employable all in the same employer all that you can get is damages if you are willing to fight for the future that is about contract-based service now coming to government and government sector here we have very very varied sources of law first of course is the constitution of india then the enactments then the regulations are in that order now what are the constitutional provisions insofar as service under the state is concerned when i say services under the state state is used in an expanded larger meaning than what than either state government or the union there are two distinct parts dealing with services under the state within the constitution first is part three part three deals with fundamental rights then is part 14 part 14 deals with employment under the state and union governments and are the the the order used there under the union government and the state government part 3 and part 14 of the constitution govern the entire source of fundamental law or basic law or ultimate block whatever name you can give it is the fountainhead of all laws any law contrary to or any rule contrary to part three of the constitution in respect of public employment that is under the governmental sector but not strippers also within the government they part three of the constitution is the source of strength strengthen law for the non-state government and non-central force and when it comes to government the government employees part 14 is an added safety net against exploitation and victimization about 50 60 years ago victimization was a world which was more found in labor law than in service but today in the service law we come across more and more cases of victimization therefore victimization is something that is safeguarded against in both in part three and for why i say constitution is the basic voice it is the source of all laws that is number one second article 13 article 12 article 13 both of which are parts or part of the part 3 of the constitution they are very very significant in so far as service jurisprudence is culture article 12 defines state what is state by article 12 state in this part of the constitution is relatable to or in so far as part three of the constitution is concerned it includes and then the definition is inclusive kindly note that it is inclusive definition and what it says is in this part of the constitution in this park unless the context otherwise requires state includes kindly not the world improves the parliament of india the government the government and the legislature of each of the states and all local or other authorities within the territory of india or under the control of the government of india when his local authority is automatically established then anybody though it is not a local body it may be a business organization like uh airport authority of india or it will be a commercial organization like ireland natural gas corporation industrial finance corporation or nationalized bank or even central inland water transport corporation or state road transport calculation all these statutory bodies at once come under the net of article 12 then there are certain bodies which are not statutory words like say institute of public impurities there are the indians of science in bangalore which is not a strategy but it is a society registered as a society's registration act or i would first graduate instead of medical sciences chandigarh i do not know whether it is a statutory body to my knowledge it is also a first it was started as a society now i don't know with the corporatization whether it has been now registered as a company or something like that but it started as a society then all india institute of medical sciences it also started as a society now there is of course aims act also all these bodies though technically they are autonomous societies registered under the respective state enactments dealing with society's registration every one of them become a state if state is having overall control over the affairs of those bodies all such bodies fall within the scope of article 12 once that body becomes the state as defined under our problem then our first source of law is article 14 which guarantees equality before law article 16 which guarantees equality in the matter of public employment article 19 which guarantees six freedoms to the citizens then article 21 which protects right to life and liberty article 23 which is injunction against exploitation then part 4 also because though article 12 in its definition of the state does not include chapter part 4 of the constitution supreme court by interpretation has said though directive principles of state policy are not independently enforceable they can be enforced as part of part three therefore though article 12 by definition does not include these bodies as state for the purpose of chapter part 4 by virtue of interlinkage between the fundamental rights and directive principles of state policy what are the directive principles of state policy equal pay for equal work article 39 d then rule against exploitation providing human working environment all for that matter the statutory right under prohibition of sexual harassment at workplace act all these things are relatable to part four and they can be enforced as part of party the distinction between services under the state and the state sector then boils down to applicability of part 14. part 14 there is a see at the craftsmanship of the constitution look at article 12 coming under part 3 defines state the word state inclusively the intention of constitutional constraint assembly is that enlarge this scope of state so that larger segment will get larger segment of the workforce will get protection of non-discrimination non-arbitrarily equality but when it comes to part 14 the state is defined as the states included in schedule one to the constitution excluding jammu one question now i don't know jammu and kashmir is executed then also now also but has three different territories therefore by definition part 14 is not applicable to anybody except the government employees of the state and the center and restricted to those territories which are scheduled in schedule one there are certain very special provisions of protection are there first is article 309 that is that the service condition should be gone the president or the governor they can make the rule in the absence of a legislation and if legislation enters their decision most important protection under article 311 under chapter 14 part 14 comes under article 300 that is no civil servant shall be dismissed removed or reduced in time except after holding an inquiry in accordance with principles of natural justice natural justice is not a phrase used in the article 3 but the seeds of the natural justice is found in part 14. part 14 says inquiry has to be held giving a reasonable opportunity to the government's effort that reasonable opportunity has been expanded new dimensions have been added and innovative concepts have been built into that reasonable opportunity by advocate made in judgment laws basically remains what is made by the constituent person that is reasonable operation another aspect of article 300 is that the reduction in rank or removal or dismissal of a government servant can occur only at the hands of appointing authority this is a function not delegateable to anybody else by the appointing of course there are various service rules which say that he can be dismissed either by appointing authority or by an authority to whom it is subverted this dismissal discharge and reduction in rank only at the hands of the appointing authority is something that is not available in the chapter under part three thanks to justice chinooki he said in uh up state warehousing corporation limited versus vijay narayan watch pay where he said i find it i find it tended hard to find out any difference between an employee of a statutory body like uk warehousing corporation and employee of a gun therefore i can extend the principles underlying part 14 by resolve to article 14 15 and 16 to public sector employees also that is the starting point of development of service law insurance public sector schools earlier to that it has been said in suktersing where the question of employees of ongc ifci and one more organization came up for consideration but succinctly it was justice china friday who stated in visionary and workplace case that there is no distinction between a public sector employee under government in so far as constitutional values then comes the rules made by the statutory body or by the legislature or by the government in exercise of its strategic force in different states different mechanisms have been evolved to lay down the conditions of service of government employees until about three decades ago it was governed by the rules made by the president of the governor under province auto article say not me then the legislature took over the states made cities the state civil services act whereby governor was denuded of the power to make service rules and it was left to the executive to make rules under the state enactments but that is not a major change because whether it is governor or government or president of government it hardly matters as justice as justice krishna said in famous case which dealt with power of power he said governor is shortened form of the government therefore governor cannot act except on the advice of the cabinet therefore governor and government it doesn't make much of a difference on that will not bother too much then in the absence of statutory rule or a rule made under article 309 or a rule made by the legislature we have the rules called government orders issued under article 162 in respect of state government employees and government orders issued under article 73 in respect of the central volumetric these are issued either in the name of the donor or in the name of the president but by the executive guam depending upon whether it is state or whether it is sent but nonetheless they are called executive instructions or administrative instructions then we have this uh a stranger type of source of law circulars but one sorry at one point of time circulars were held to be unenforceable at one point of time circular circulars were belated by the courts saying that they are inter-departmental communications then the things slowly changed for the first time in a war in kp joseph supreme court said office memoranda are not statutory rules they are generally not enforceable but if it gives a right to an employee or cache an obligation on the employer then the rights and obligations created by that vm are enforceable subject to one condition that is it shall not be contrary to any superior law then the very interesting question came for the first time before the supreme court in uh gundam charge case which went from the then myself the question was whether meisu state road transport corporation a corporation established under road transport corporations act 1951 whether it can make appointments in the absence of regulations made under section 45 of the road transport corporation act of course similar question had arisen in the governmental service in bien nagra first time again a state and again a case which went from the state of maison we are given a lot of contribution we have made a lot of contributions in bien nagarajan while dealing with the state services under the state supreme court said in the absence of rules made under article 309 orders can be issued under article 162 by of executive instructions laying down recruitment rule pay scale everything pertaining to service conditions but once rule is made under article 309 that cannot be bridged by executive instructions then in gundam scales the mysore high court that is transport corporation cannot make appointments except after making the regulations supreme court said no power to a point is inherent in the corporation because corporation has to function it cannot function without employees and whenever a new corporation is formed it takes time to make regulations put in place the regulations made under the road transport calculation until then you cannot say that artisan buses would not fly would not fly buses have to fly it has to serve its objectives the corporation has to function therefore by passing a resolution and making an administrative instruction corporation can make the apartments therefore what emerges from the law is in the absence of a statutory rule or a legislative role executive instructions can be issued but as a supreme court caution in santram sharma where there is no statutory rules executive instructions can govern the field and santaram sharma was a case where there were rules made but there were gaps supreme court said to fill the gaps executive instructions can be issued therefore ultimately what the supreme court said is executive instructions can supplement the rules but they cannot supply the rules then the question of filling up the gaps or issuing clarifications here a very interesting case arose under granting your report normal judicial view is that granting code granting aid code is a set of administrative instructions which are not enforceable therefore you can make a law by way of code or codal provisions their adherence to that would be at the mercy of the government if the government pleases it can require it if the government is not pleased to adhere to it in my case alone though it is violative of article 14 i cannot complain because granting your code is not even this was to a large extent blasted out of the field in one case arising under granting network from the state of karnataka their appointments had been made for a private education institution strictly in accordance with provisions of the granting network the government directed that their appointments is not in order therefore their services are to be terminated it was a granted institution the matter they should suffer supreme court said appointments have been made in accordance with the terms of the great that is granting your code now your case that is the case of the government is appointment is contrary to clarification issued by the director of public administration or director of public instruction as the case may be supreme court said two things about power to issue clarifications first thing is the parent rule should provide for such clarifications being issued kindly mark the difference between article 162 article 73 on the one hand and these lesser legislations on the other when it come to articles 162 it has been held to be an inherent power of the executive government to issue instructions in the absence of statutory rules or to fill the gaps in the strategic groups when it came to granting it for supreme court sir whether granting airport provides for issue of such clarifications that is the first question second question is who can issue the clarification assuming that there is a power to clarify power to clarify supreme court said vests in the person competent to make the code itself since the code is made with the government director has no power to issue any clarification this them see the different the hierarchy of these sources of law basic law is constitution then is legislation that is uh enactments made like road transport corporation third days savannah and legislation are delegated legislation which has come in the form of rules and regulations you can use the word rule or regulation depending upon the word used in the parent and act stricto there is not much of a difference then the administrative instruction then the clarifications then circulars all these are sources of service and remember most important source of service law is judgment law which i said is with the assistance of the advocates now let us take what is the hierarchy here and if these laws have been laid down in palo ramas i was discussing with my colleague just before i appeared before you follow ram krsnaya did not say anything different norad day did not say anything innovative it only summarized what the supreme court has been telling from biannual very clearly laid down the hierarchy of the eminence or which will have precedence over the other first is constitution because article 13 says anything contrary to this part of the constitution will be void and law is defined such inclusive to include bylaws rules regulations customs and usages also because uh those of you who are slightly older maybe little younger to me also present-day generation would not be knowing this because they are they have not heard that there used to be what was called customary bones in industries puja bonus particularly in west bengal then festival bonus in some of the states these were not governed by any settlement or rule or law but they were customary rights then usage is also law under article 30. subject to the condition when usage can be law is it should not be unlawful it should be from times for quite some time custom has to be of a immemorial vintage usage need not be of memorial vintage but it must be of reasonably sufficient long period it must have been all these are sources of form but when it comes to which gets precedence over the other follow run krishna principles are first constitution then parent parent act means let us take banking companies acquisition and transfer of undertaking side 1969 of 1970 or 1980 board of directors of each bank he is empowered to lay down regulation to lay down by regulations terms and conditions of service of its employees but that section section 19 originally did not authorize the boards to make regulations with retrospective effect so a bank's board makes a regulation with retrospective effect it will be void as being without power second restriction is for the purposes of giving effect to provisions of this act or in consonance with the provisions of this type therefore if any subordinate legislation or delegated legislation like a regulation is contrary to the parent act that is the empowering act then act will prevail and regulations to the extent of being contradicted will have to go therefore constant assembly then legislature then the delegated legislator or delegated legislation fourth is executive instructions it is not only in the government even in a non-governmental public sector also the circular circle they are called by different names in different organizations ultimately they are all executive instructions or administrative instructions then come the clarifications of this neuron this is the broad hierarchy article 13 specifically declares any act which is contrary to this part will be void therefore it is the most superior flow when we have service the practitioners are shown we have to apply these steps whether it is contrary to the constitution whether it is contrary to the parent enactment whether it is ultra where is the parent whether it is contrary to any other higher role that is which ranks higher in judicial precedence and then take a call as to which would prevail therefore friends there are virtually i can say broadly five or six sources of service law and each has its utility precedence and limitations ultimately please do not tell anybody that as one of the senior counsels whom i admire and at all he told me once that rajagopal most of the people feel service law is a lawless because there is little law and enormous interpretation i said sir it is not liar's law it is it is not lawless it is lawyers it is a challenge to the lawyers and it is the lawyers who make the service ultimately seventh source of service law is you and me these are the sources of service law these are the picking order of various instruments and service law and then of course we deal with the various uh there is one more aspect of service law which is applicable to every employee every wager there are again legislative instruments like payment of graduate care for the payment of no bonus act has gone into it has gone into decision of history therefore it is no longer available to most of the people and then we have applied state insurance the employee is provided for that these are all that these are all legislative pieces of course in dealing with prayer fact and gratuity act one more thing will have to be born in mind if anybody under service conditions has higher benefits of these two enactus employees entitled to enjoy that higher benefit but what the payment of graduate and dpf taxes is the minimum then we have minimum wages in fact still very recently i was under the impression that minimum badges act has no relevance to service it is only relevant to labor but recent trend is you see any government including the central world we all they all claim to be very sold their welfare governments for the common man for the they are all the governments of the bosses giving holiday to part 14 and part three they are employing contract labor therefore now contract labor regulation act also will be applicable then sometimes the daily wages fixed by the government to those contract laborers is less than the minimum wages therefore minimum wages act also will have these are broadly the sources of sanity now mr because i think i should close and audience should stop so i will only say that once you speak i'm reminded that what we read in the childhood times fight piper hamlin though it had a wrong connotation but the way you spellbound everyone you take everyone to the thought to the well but to the deeper oceans of uh life and how to pick up the pearls that is one aspect like we did in the previous sessions you have already shared the knowledge we will share a few questions from and answers from you like all they say that service law is a big ocean with your vast knowledge what tip would you like to give to them that how to pick the pearls of wisdom and how to place them in the drafting i agree that service law is a very huge subject and sometimes it depends on the concept of justice which a judge has in his mind he judged i was confronted with the same question as a nuclear physics student when i was doing my msc nuclear physics my professor said nuclear physics is a very bad subject and you are going out of this university as a master in nuclear physics you should be able to tell when you go i know nuclear physics to the extent it is contained in popular kaplan is one of the most famous authors of the nuclear physics like that there are different books i personally adore services under the state by justice ramadas not the later edition which was edited by indian law institute but earlier edition earlier if you read one such textbook you would be able to tell at least that with great difficulty i am held i am holding the pages together subsequent tradition has come which justice and brahma judge himself did not like now the book that gives you a broad scope and broad understanding of service life law relating to public service by samara in which all basic concepts have been discussed and it is used as a reference book by most of the judges i don't think that even that book is uploaded because every day the norms are changed therefore keep one such book of a learned author for example uh in departmental inquiries br is an authority now it is in two volumes i think when i started as a student of law it was only in one world now it has gone into two worlds it will be growing all that i would like to tell is that pick up the concepts by reading a short book like justice um samrada that will give you an insight also when you come across a problem where to find a solution that solution may not be in samara but samurai civil helps you to find a solution being a student of nuclear science you have told what is the rocket science to understand the law in the right of way answer the next question would be like we have taken to the other persons how to understand or how to build that mindset to interpret in the two different ways just like in mooting they are told that for the same proposition you can think both ways how to develop that mindset that is but deliberately i'm not taking the other questions today because i feel that these students young lawyers would like to understand right i would put it this way when a brief comes to you normal tendency is to look to the strengths of the case what are the strengths on which i can succeed in this course i think that is a wrong focus first priority should be to find out weaknesses of your case once you find an answer to those weaknesses then you can locate the strengths and build on them same now this leads to the a very critical thinking if you want to imagine the witnesses of your case which is difficult because uh our kids are according to the champions there is no weakness in my child but by looking to the weaknesses what would be happening is you would be trying to decipher what the case of the opponent would be because the respondent's brief starts after the court admits your case unfortunately we are not in cpc regime when you go to the headquarters when you go to the administrative tribunal our first opponent will be bench itself they will start asking what is your right then comes the respondent's function therefore first thing what the respondents counsel would think to oppose your case then you draft your pleading that is how you can make your case that much more foolproof and you would be able to understand and assimilate both points of view and you would be ready beforehand to know the opposite means opposite person's case and keep your ammunition ready to demolish therefore if a respondent comes to you think as british in the schools if a petitioner comes to you initially think as respondent schools that is very essential for you to first formulate your case then develop your case then argue the case so that judgment will be deliberate somewhere near your expectation i don't say somewhat favorable to your client but somewhere near expectation because what we tell the client and what we know as the strength or weakness of the case sometimes there is a diverse just three days ago i had a case under commercial by the time past men of the company came i had prepared a two-page note as to how why their care should be dismissed moment they came i gave copy of that note to the person leading the team on behalf of the commercial enterprise and tell and told him go through this note and tell me if i have understood your case first if i have not understood your case correct me on facts after so doing answer me the questions i have them they are happy they know what is their case then to my surprise the chief executive of the company gave me answers which satisfied my questions slightly above 50 percent then i said i will try to argue your work because it is an argument don't think as a petitioner don't think as a respondent who is your client first think of the opposite party's case then you are true that is the only way we can analyze a case so we can say that uh we should start developing the art of reverse thinking and then start structuring our arguments yes it is more or less like reverse uh reverse the auction is there now yes now next question would be how to funnel the arguments or how to structure the arguments once the case comes that is a difficult question to answer because my personal view is quite different from normal thinking before you take for example to in some temples you have to take laddu and uh do prasad in some cases in some temples you have to take carry water because you will be abhishekab to your uddra in some temples you have to take sorry these are the things which would please that god or goddess we would have known the law and at some places oils yes we should ask the thinking of the jets i am not casting aspersions on any for example each judge will have his thinking process which may be different from other judges thinking process therefore first identify in terms of thought process of the particular judge which is the argument that is that is likely to appeal him to most you might have 10 points you would have made a note and these days making note and going to the court is very easy because you have computers then you can make corrections and all those when we started it was difficult because we have to make handwritten notes and take it without a note i have never argued even at this stage it also notes sir without arguing more notes will come after before combination of saraswati and lakshmi yes it will come and this is the only profession because where lakshmi and saraswati do together because if you are strong in your professor in your concepts concepts presentation money will automatically otherwise general thinking is that lakshmi and saraswati they never live together no that is totally inapplicable to proportion of law this is the place where both live together books will live with bundles books heaps of books tons of books will also live with bundles of body of course i only hope that government is not hearing to think that i am having lots of food i just correct the last part government will not think government knows it they know that uh you have pearls of knowledge and the ocean is full of pearls only at your place there is one thing i in fact i i have told some of the yes judge will ask your first ground is this your rise in the picture then i would tell i am not going to argue that the ground yet they are the threshold go to ground three when i drafted the reputation so and so was the judge therefore first round is the ground that would have appealed to him now the roster has changed third ground is what i would urge before this score then one judge asked me why i said when i go to be vishnu mandir i cannot make shivastrithi i will have to recite vishnu then only i will get that take all grounds in your pleadings which ground you would project would depend upon which is the latest judgment which would be still green in the memory of every judge whether any point is there in your feedings which would fit into that second is conceptually which concept of justice is dearest to this judge something that happened 35 years ago one judge very learned very noble jed it was true by accidental sleep or i don't know in what context the opponent's counsel said my lord widow then the opposite man had to show me lord there is no video in this case at all see that is what would be received instinctively by the court we should try to forget ultimately we we may lose we may not win on that point we may mean been on a different point but you should have created an attentive mind in the judge to hear your kiss first ground need not always be the best girl though it is said so but the first five minutes of your submissions if you cannot impress the court forget about winning the case after five years five days of arguments whether it is final layering whether it's plenary hearing whatever it is so the presence of separate substance obviously whatever you have stated is you will climb the ladders when you go to the you have the best of the devices i will ask we thought that you share so much knowledge questions once we take this uh entire series it will continue audio spectrum thank you very much sir i have no words to say [Music] extremely erudite and intriguing presentation as usual and this piece will go on for a few more days that is the best part of it so once again sir thank you so much on my personal behalf and on behalf of beyond law clc it was a great presentation great uh uh opportunity for all all of us to learn more and more thank you sir and my special thanks to ashwini rajagopal madam and mr jain office of uh senior advocate i also extend my thanks to mr l former chairman of the karnataka state park council present once again thanks to all the participants and uh a special thanks to our champions with vikas chatra for all his efforts thank you so much thank you flash uh thank you friends for having connected with us it's always a pleasure hearing mr raja gopal and it's all i think you should give her the option [Applause] speaker has to be switched off two gadgets have been switched on i guess that once you have a father who is larger than life image how do you learn from him and how do you come out of that larger than life image could you please repeat the question because of the i'm i'm saying that once you have a father who is known larger than life image for his knowledge audio because this is like people say that once it is the second generation it's easy but how do you contain how do you maintain your separate niche like what you have done what lessons you have learned from your father to create yourself with each other because because there is a technical glitch at your end we are not able to hear you i don't know what happened i think there's a i think what mr vikraz is trying to convey sir is such a [Music] personality with uh you know we cannot explain in words and having him as a father so what would you say and what is the learning curve that you have experienced we specifically make it a point to keep our personal and professional relationship separate so once we are in office or in court i am as good or as similar or equal to any other colleague in the office and there is absolutely no distinction if we work as a team and if sir sir treats us all equally and the knowledge sharing and the [Music] what what would i say uh the expectations are the same so there is no distinction no difference and it's all a process of learning so there is nothing special it's that you do your own work and the guidance is always there uh mr p.s raja gopal once he has delivered the entire lecture on article 14 he keeps in mind that article 14 is vetted out though it's a private sector that works pulsar how do you maintain that balance because this is also a challenge for any good professional when their uh child comes in the profession how that within that they say all under a good pray or a good bunion respect the normal tree doesn't grow so how do you create that the person can create have space like ashwin so you will have to unmute yourself now i can i can say one thing uh equality practicing equality has been an instrument of faith with me this i learned as a student and by watching the society say i come from a rural background where in a family there used to be five six seven eight brothers each one of them is having equal number of little lesser number of children and the way my grandparents they would treat everybody equally it was amazing if one half of that do is given to one child every child will get only one that one no grain more no grain less and if among the children they would share they would tell yeah now you you like this item more therefore you have little more equality the inequality my parents or my grandparents were not creating it was sharing was with love so that those that the person who is in a greater need would get it that is how i have been managing in fact my first advice to my daughter was not to join big office but when she persisted i said be prepared to face the wrath of my discipline in the office because because you are my daughter i will not scold you less but you may be getting more school more scoldings than others to get that is who i have not aroused any expectations enough that she would get a preferred treatment in this office and i've been able to maintain it by the grace of god because if i can't practice article 14 i will have no conviction in arguing for optical conditioning so you have taken that constitution we have to live constitution then only we can become alliance arguing on constitutional values if i am bygamers i cannot argue for the puritan personal life therefore that is most important and somehow it has come i would thank my god for that because it is very easy to be going into the trap of personal likes and dislikes that we cannot afford to have in our course everybody is equal even amongst the clients so reasonable classification the reasonable classification intellectual i said reasonable classification and intellectual being tightly carved out in the office that reasonable classification it is likely to end up as unreasonable classification therefore in some areas it is better to maintain wooden equality [Music] so we end up with a lighter note and it is always a pleasure hearing sir and tomorrow the name is not visible so it shows just justice so uh we would extend our uh many thanks to the honorable judge whoever has joined that's true and that is the only way we can do justice for the part that is anonymous but we pay his regards uh pay our all regards for his participation that gives the right impetus or the right catalyst to move forward for these sessions and that is the way that we have been able to do more than 500 webinars and tomorrow we have actions and denials more specific relevance would be on the civil civil courts that is by so much do stay connected with us tomorrow at 6 pm