Namaste J Hind and welcome to this very very special edition on the right stand ladies and gentlemen I'm on the road uh in the quest to try and get you something really interesting but this is a conversation that compelled us to stop whatever we are doing and sit down and have a conversation with perhaps some of the most important and uh illuminary Minds uh that are uh that in in in current day and this is to try and debunk the entire Aran Invasion Theory especially with the findings of the raki gari site and I think that is uh something which is very very significant joining us now is wasan trinder the former Vice Chancellor of the Dean de University and a very very renowned archaeologist who was in charge of the entire rakar site uh between 2010 and 2017 if I my memory SES me right abijit Zog who's written a lot an author himself an mad man but who di deep into history and whose books forward I think uh has been written by wasan chind and Dr Anand ranganathan who's uh been talking about the civilizational ethos of bat from a scientist perspective and about the rising Consciousness but here today what we will talk about is the third phase and the sudden findings that have now une earthed which say that the harapan civilization dates back to nearly 7,000 years ago and it was such an civilization that most of the knowledge systems or understanding that we have of the current day they had at that time how important is this and does this now deunk the entire Arian Invasion theory that a lot of our knowledge our uh you know learnings were something which was brought by Invaders who settled here and educated the local illiterate masses that is the leftist narrative or the Dorian narrative as some experts would call it your thoughts bandi yeah thank you very much for uh inviting me here and it's such a pleasure to be you know with Anan G and abijit G on this panel uh first let me tell you that know the recent news is not a new it's not a new uh news as such uh we have been Excavating in this area for last 10 10 years or more than 10 years and uh you know earlier also you know we got the dates and it is not only 7,000 it's going back to 8,000 years ago so we have the know and you know uh the misunderstanding among the people is that the entire you know from 8,000 to maybe know 3,500 years Entre phase was the know develop phase of the har culture that is not true in fact so one of the objectives of my research at raki was to understand the know transformation you know from the very modest beginning till the organization and the modest beginning of the harapan culture is going back to you know 6,000 BCE which is almost 8,000 years ago so from 6,000 BC to almost 2,600 BC this is the early phase of the haran culture and then you know we can see you know the excussion that you know I carried out clearly demonstrated a gradual transformation you know from the mod beginning to urbanization in this particular phase and then comes the most you know Advanced or most prosperous phas of the harapan culture that is called the harapan civilization and that is from 20600 BCE to 1900 BC so this is a very very important phase and then of course because of certain reasons there's a decline of the harapan culture at you know maybe around 1900 BC and the main cause for that of course was the you know climatic conditions the climate became dry and we have generated lot of scientific data in this this particular respect on the climatic conditions and it was a global phenomena so most of the major civilizations collaps at the same time and but know this particular culture after the decline also has continued till 1500 in some places 1300 in some places BCE so this is the total length of the you know harle culture so when the archical of India carried out the excavation at the site of virana uh in 2002 2003 that time they got very early dates for the beginning of the her culture and then of course you know initially there were a lot of criticism from the know scholar from the west and the Americans because they were not really able to digest these early dayses for the heral culture so they started you know making you know a lot of who and cry saying that you know maybe you have got you know solitary dat from one side maybe there's some contamination happening there see this type question was never asked you know when they got early death you know at the site of Me Girl because that site was exped by the fren scholar that time everybody accepted the dates but then know we did not take that as you know some kind of you know uh you know uh negative for us so we took took that challenge and then we executed only half a dozen site in that region and all the sites fman you know site which I exed before Rak uh then uh the site of V and you know oana Etc you know these are sites which are produced very early dates and finally we could prove that you know the the beginning of her culture is going back to almost you know 6,000 BC and that was confirmed finally at the site of rakii so we know that know this is the beginning is quite early and we never say I never say that know that know people the origin of the culture or happened here and people have moved to indust you know indust Valley because there might be some early sites in that region also which have not been excavated or they have not been able to tap the sides but this is the scenario which is you know which is really happening uh in this region so that was one objective of my research in this particular region secondly now as far as the as far as the site of raak is concerned number of Scholars had work earlier but nobody had given a proper estimate about the total area of the site of raki there are different estimates but nobody tried to understand what is know what is the area that was occupied and then you know when I started in 2010 so 2010 to 2012 I spend you know time in calculating the site by using the latest geophysical instruments and you know at the end of the study I was so surprised because the total area that we calculated was 550 hect which is almost double the size of Mo which was supposed to be the largest city so now we know that know this is the largest City and we also have got you know you know quite good understanding about you know the transformation in the material culture in the structure from the beginning to the you know most prosperous space and the last question that you know we asked which was you know asked by many many scholars before also that who are the harapan people whether they are indigenous people or they came outside lot of Europeans particularly they thought that know the mesopo came here and they established the heran culture which was very absurd but you know we had no scientific data to challenge you know this hypothesis so what we decided that know if you want to understand about the people the best ways to get the DNA and that is the clinching evidence you know which will prove what this Pro hypothesis but scientifically now we have Prov that you know there is you know there is no AR Invasion at all the division you know you know this Arian and dvan was artificially created by the you know colon rulers in fact there's no substance in there and thirdly know that know the distinct South Asian je started happening you know started muting around 12,000 years ago the same je came Ina you know in the harapan people and the same je you know we are inheriting in fact and we you know we tested the modern population with you know chose different regions in fact from andan nicobar to Kashmir and know from Afghanistan to whole of IND and surprisingly we found that most of us no matter what religion we follow what language we follow most of us are the descendants of The Harens we we are inheriting something like 25 to 30% harapan genes and the rest are all mixed Ina so right from the ear stage there's a lot of movement happening among the people and because of that mixing was also happening so we have maybe 2% Iranian jeans maybe 4% maybe African jeans 3% maybe European genes so like that so what is important here that you know that there is no breakage in the genetic history of South Asia at all suppose the Arians had come from outside then two things would have happened one is that there could have been discontinuity or breakage in the genetic history of South Asia which has never happened and secondly uh now when people come from outside they would have brought the new cultural elements in South Asia which has not happened in fact there's a continuity in the matal culture for last 10,000 years and I always say that the har are the founders of the Indian culture because most of the knowledge system most of the tradition that they introduce that is been inherited by know people even today and there is a large section of the population in South Asia what dependent on the traditional knowled system which was developed by the herant so this a very very important research you know that you know we have made and now you know we are focusing on the knowledge system that the her develop we are studying that we inting that and the knowledge that we generating that can be know supplied to the people who are following the you know traditional know system for maybe for producing their you know maybe crafts and you know other things know better so that they value so this is no this is phenomenal V what your saying because uh Dr ranganathan as a scientist let me bring you in and does this then settle the entire civilization debate and the other question that then beets is why is it that the counter has to always be scientifically proven whereas the claims made by the dorians are always arbitrary and uh figment of people's imagination which they believe to be true and then that tends to become gospel say orbitan say when they you know formulated this hypothesis that you know the AR came from outside absolutely there was no scientific evidence for that they have not cited any know uh convincing evidence for this particular hypothesis and this was a ploy of the britishers because they always wanted to you know divide our society so that you know they can rule properly here that was the objective of these people and therefore you they Nar you know this you know started this particular narrative that you know you people are not of you know maybe doing any kind of good work just take taking this to Dr ranganathan and abijit Joe just for their comments but dran if if the if the britishers started this why is it that it was continued post our independence and the leftist historians succumb to this narrative and why did they tend to push that over and above scientific evidence Anand good evening Anan and uh good evening to my fellow panelists can I just say at the beginning what an honor it is to be sharing the panel with Professor shind uh uh you know he may or may not get the bhat ratna but he is a kohinur for us I want you and everyone else in India to know that so thank you so much thank you really I want to answer your question in in three ways the first is of course uh you know directly when you say that why is it that even though Max Mueller and others would have spread this Canard that Arians came and you know taught us everything they brought everything including the culture and they taught us everything why is it that even post Independence this Canard not only grew but it was fructified by our historians leftist historians and our textbooks the answer to that is that the left has traditionally believed that India as a nation did not exist before there was no Unity amongst Indians that we were not one group that all our culture was brought from outside that we did not invent or discover anything of any use either to us to the world so it made sense that us as you know a film says poor people you know destitute people don't know anything or you know are just down and out in everything and out comes this you know finger from the above uh proverbially or metaphorically and teaches us everything so that suited very well and that has continued because since Independence we've been taught this whole exercise in self-loathing and uh you know kind of celebrating what was never ours so it fits very well into this leftist Dogma that Indians are absolutely useless and they didn't create anything you see the Aran Invasion Theory one must understand or AIT that was very speciously uh you know nuanced and changed to Arian migration Theory I don't know what they do now Aran interaction Theory and then Arians came and had tea and biscuits with us but it isn't just doesn't just mean that the Arian so-called the steepe people migrated or mixed it is their contention that they brought along horses chariots sophisticated DS Vedas Vic life and thought if therefore one could show that all these existed before the steepe people mix with the indigenous that the rakari people who now it turns out didn't have any steepe genetic Trace as shown by Professor shind 4 years ago were Vic people and their life way of life habitat River Bank Basin culture burial sites rituals find reference in the regua one would not be wrong in concluding that the AIT St discredited and that is exactly what has happened now 5 years ago professor shind and others showed that the harapan people rakari people did not have any Steppy component now that wasn't conclusively to prove that the Iran Invasion did not happen 3,500 years ago but now they discovery that the way of life the horses the arms the Vic life everything had a continuity even for 8,000 continuous years definitely discredits the Aran Invasion Theory and now for for once and for all it stands completely discredited because not only was there not a steepe component in the haraan people it is that their civilization existed much before the purported Arians came tumbling down the steepe mountains into horses and Tau us everything and the discovery of The Chariot the discovery of the indigenous horse the discovery of a rice grain the Disco monument and Discovery in 2019 that the sarasti river was not actually Monsoon fed but glacial fed 9,000 to 4,500 years ago that is what finds mentioned in the Reda so all these components together with the landmark discovery recently of Professor shind and colleagues completely put space actually buries the Aran Invasion Theory once and for all then abijit J before I go back to Professor shind then all those historians who garnered so much of credibility by pushing this AIT should now lit their theories and their thesis and those textbooks should be junk outright Anan it's great to be back on your show and I share Anan ratan's feelings that it's really an honor to be on the same show as Dr shind and also an ratan so I consider myself privileged uh I will not Venture into the scientific part of it because both Dr shind and Anand r of the experts in that but I would like to just share with the viewers that how actually this Aran invion Theory originate from where did it come so you will be surprised that before the British came to India there was nothing like Arian Invasion or Arian migration or anything like that Arians were always considered to be originally inhabitants of India and that is how it our our scriptures also spoke about but when the britishers British East India Company came to India and started trading many britishers came to India people like Bon estings William Jones who are very much interested in culture language and various aspects of uh Indian civilization and uh they were completely taken aback by what they saw because the richness and the the the glory of ancient Indian civilization really impressed them and they realized that there is a great similarity between Sanskrit and various European languages and Max Müller who was the proponent of Arian Invasion theory he himself has gone on record saying that we knew that there is some similarity among the European languages but we didn't understand what kind of similarity it was and we realized that only when we came to India and we learned Sanskrit because through Sanskrit all these languages are connected to each other so they had a great there is there was a wave of love and respect for Indian civilization not only in UK but in the entire European continent and all this was okay as long as their target was only trading but when they won the wall of War of plusy in 1757 they realized that they now here for a long time and India is going to be the part of British Empire and then all this love and respect that was created for Indian civilization became very inconvenient for them that the people who are going to be their slaves their language and their civilization is as created the European languages and the European civil like waler the great French philosopher has gone on record saying that the European civilization was born on the banks of the Ganges so they had kind of accepted that European languages and European civilization came from India and this Acceptance Now became very inconvenient for them because uh they couldn't possibly accept that their slaves have given them their languages and their civilizations so to rle out of this situation they created this completely fake Theory called as Arian Invasion Theory they said that white people from the southern south southern part of Russia they came to India in on horses and chariots and then they defeated I mean they didn't even know that uh Indus Valley Civilization existed at that time because this particular theory was put forth some somewhere around 1830 when the indust valley civiliz civilization was not even uh discovered it was discovered in 1921-22 so even before they knew anything about indust Val civilization they come up came up with this imaginary Theory and uh Maxim who claimed that Arians came in 1500 BC later on himself admitted that the date given by him was completely imaginary he had no evidence for supporting this particular date what this genetic evidence has done is that it has debunked one more theory that the IBC people or synu sarasti civilization people were Sumerians that is the theory which the westerners tried to put forth that has completely been Deon Professor shind then does that mean that we can categorically say that the civilizational ethos that we talk about the civilization that we talk about is not borrowed is of our own and the fact that the raki gari you know site is in harana of today means that this is in the heart of bhat itself even that is not borrowed or in some other foreign land of today we are the oldest civilization and it is our civilization eth that continues the same knowledge systems that continue till today because you said 40% of our DNA is still Haren yes yeah I think it is very important to understand that you know we not have only the genetic evidence that is very important course but we also as has mentioned that we have also you know very strong Arch evidence to show the continuity for 10,000 years and also our literature is so strong it shows the it also mentioned the continuity till today so there is a continuity and this research you based on archaological and genetic you know evidence clearly establishes the fact that the beginning of Agriculture happened in this region by the indigenous people the same people now were responsible for developing the haran culture and from harapan culture to harapan civilization so it is a 100% indigenous you know you know civilization no doubt about that secondly you know uh uh you know an also mentioned about the uh other evidences like you know horse and Etc but let me tell you that know we also have horse you know in the form of actual know bones horse Bones from the side of Sur and also we have some figurines from L from L Mo typical har this horse know uh figur are found so we have that in then you know there is a strong evidence about the fire worship at the site of Kanga even rakii so there are a lot of continuity know in this particular aspect also secondly know if at all somebody believes that know they were Arians then my my hypothesis my conclusion that it is we we the Aras because we started see a has been rejected now and we are proposing o now we started going out based on the scientific evidence again because know we analyzed the you know data from the contemp sites in Iran sh and also one site in you know G in turkistan both the sides were contri to the harant and the har are very strong links with this you know region because know the exion carried out there clearly indicated clearly know revealed the haran data in that region and then you know what we did in P we also compared the know the genetic history of the harap with the sh and you know G population and surprisingly what we found that we found harapan elements present in them but not their elements present in har population that means harapan people started going out there first they got mixed up and then people started reciprocating they started coming and after that so we started venturing out for imp so this is very very important and then you know why you know again you know I will raise this issue about the British why they have you know created this particular you know uh confusion in the history of South Asia because they gave the impression to the whole world that know we have come to India to you know because Indians are barbaric illiterate and we want to civilize them this was the narrative know they had spread all over the world but when they when they discovered the har civilization in 1920 mentioned about that then you know they were surprised because we had such Advanced civilization even Europe did not have you know live apart know the you know England but Europe not have Advan civilization then great question you know how to explain now to the world that you know we have come to know civilize this people because these people were already civilized much more than us and then they said that okay yes you have the evidence but the people who made this are not indians they came from outside so that is how know they started know forting the idea about the inov Etc very strongly and you know most of the elements most of the cultural you know Traditions that know which which were introduced by theyed today so so also the language also so this is my and we are working on that so we I think you know through this research we can certainly know shed lot of know light on the origin and the development of this harapan culture which is our own culture I call this Indian culture because you know it is the base of the Indian culture and harana is a cradle of the you know Indian civilization most of the early developments happen and then you know it is you know spread in different parts of the world is not invion but it is intelligence and Indian very very Indian an ran last word I have to wind up after no absolutely very quickly because uh both professor shinda and abijit have explained everything beautifully I just wanted to add something that through the landmark Discovery I think it's soon to be published of uh my good friend NJ R and colleague of Professor shind now this R1 A1 Hao group supposed to be an Aran Hao group that came to India now he said that actually the origin of R1 A1 is in India because maximum diversity is in India so you know once that thing comes that would be the last nail in the coffin but I want to say something to the leftist quacks you know whove destroyed science in this country for the last 100 years by pedling such theories they don't understand that science doesn't care for the origin of a culture of eming a culture I mean I would be proud for I mean I consider myself Anand as a proud Ethiopian I'm a descendant of Lucy you know for me what matters is that we are a bunch of cells we all originated from the single unicellular cell we've come here we are creations of chance of you know something that happened 4 and a half billion years ago so for people to say that look you must embe this culture you've been you know thrust this culture upon you it's completely wrong science doesn't accept this at all you know any culture had it been African or Native American or Australian or Aboriginal I would be a proud proud recipient of such culture this is what population genetics the new field has told these leftists I hope they learn this lesson very well said different perspectives very scientific not political not claims not quackery but Pro proper science and Theory theorizing what sciences and uh dispelling all these Norms we have to unlearn a lot lot of our history that been fed to us and we have to relearn a lot of our own knowledge systems that have been continuing with us and have been all around us we've just not seen it uh Professor shind Dr ranganathan and abijit ji thank you so much such a wonderful conversation this thank you look forward to many thank you very much thank you very much thank you thank you namaste