You're now watching Around the Horn, the weekly internationalist news update with author and historian Gerald Horn. Okay, today is November 6, 2024. Welcome everyone to the weekly series entitled Around the Horn, which is an internationalist news update with Gerald Horn. Gerald Horn currently holds the Morris Professorship of History and African American Studies at the University of Houston.
Gerald Horn is an activist, scholar, researcher, archivist, author, historian, attorney, and much, much more. Dr. Horne has written at least 48 books. Dr. Horne's latest book is entitled Armed Struggle with a Question Mark, Panthers and Communists, Black Nationalists, Liberals in Southern California through the 60s and 70s. Dr. Horne is also a permanent guest on the radio show The Horne Report, which airs on Black Power 96 radio on Sundays at 3.30 p.m. Eastern time.
And Dr. Horne also hosts a radio show entitled Freedom Now, which airs on KPFK 90.7 FM. on Saturdays at 11 a.m. Pacific, and replays of both shows can be found on the Activist News Network.
Dr. Horne, thank you so much for coming back on the show, and welcome back to Around the Horn. Thank you for inviting me. Well, Dr. Horne, as we go Around the Horn, first, of course, we wanted to ask you about the elections that took place last night in the U.S.
Dr. Horne, what was your reaction to the outcome of the presidential election, the House and Senate races, as well as the governor? races. In addition, Dr. Horne, is there anything our audience should be aware of regarding the various ballot measures that were on ballots across the country? And lastly, did you have any thoughts about how the various third-party candidates performed?
Well, first of all, let me try to provide an overview. If I were an Israeli patriot, I would be very upset with the U.S. left because the U.S. left, since October 7, 2023, has tossed across the Atlantic. this idea that historic Palestine, Israel, is a settler colonial state.
And yet, some of the same people who make that credible and justifiable notion do not necessarily see the United States of America as a settler colonial state. More than that, they do not necessarily see that under this settler colonial regime in the United States of America, what has existed Since the time that the English invaded this part of North America in the 1580s and what they call North Carolina, as I pointed out in my book on the 16th century, it was a class collaborationist enterprise. That is to say, settlers comprised of different class backgrounds from shopkeepers to workers to the 1% sponsoring them all from London were. joined at the hip in terms of trying to seize the land from the indigenous and with a little bit of luck and a lot of pluck could enslave Africans to work for free and therefore enjoy a bounty. And what you saw last night with this US election was another exercise in class collaborationism.
The Trump coalition is comprised of elites, not surprisingly, at the top of the socioeconomic pyramid is this so-called billionaire. But somehow many of our friends on the left don't want to recognize that there are millions of settler descendants in the working class and in the middle class who comprise that 71 million who voted for him or the 75 million who voted for him in 2020, and that this has deep roots. More than that, I should add that What we saw last night was a continuation of counterrevolution.
I, in my book, The Counterrevolution of 1776, that when the slave owners led by George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Patrick Henry et al., when they rebelled against the British Empire and seceded from the British Empire, they were driven, not least by this idea that Britain was moving towards abolition of slavery. Plus, They thought, perhaps correctly, that Britain was seeking to restrain the settlers, led by real estate speculator number one, George Washington, from moving west, waging war against the indigenous on the British dime, so that these enslavers could profit. And so counter-revolution has been a major theme of this country in 1776, in 1876, when... Reconstruction was overthrown, that is to say, the attempt to bring equity or let us say, diversity, equity, and inclusion to the formerly enslaved, to 2024, where you saw last night another example of counter-revolution. Now, what's interesting is that myself and a number of other Black and Indigenous scholars have been trying to force this particular narrative into the current historiography.
I'm speaking not only of the Indigenous scholar, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, an indigenous people's history in the United States of America. Carl T. Mays of UCLA, an Afro-Indigenous history. The late scholar Tyler Stovall, the author of the book White Freedom. He was formerly dean of the graduate school at Fordham before he prematurely passed away.
Charles Mills, the Jamaican American taught in Toronto and Chicago. His book, The Racial Contract. Ishmael Reed still in the land of the living who did a spoof of the Lin-Manuel Miranda Disney Broadway extravaganza celebrated by the Obamas and the Cheneys, speaking of Hamilton.
All have been trying to force this corrected to the creation myth of 1776 into the historiography. And I'm afraid to say that many of our so-called friends on the left have either ignored our intervention which is like biology teachers deciding that they don't like the uncovering of DNA in the early 1950s, and so therefore they're not going to teach that in their biology classes. And so this is scandalous, and I'm afraid to say a lot of people are going to get hurt as a result of this kind of non-feasance.
Now, since this is a program, With regard to international affairs, let's look at the international aspects of this election, because there the news is much more complex. And as we said with BRICS in the last two weeks, Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, and the Kazan summit, that it opens up opportunities for us. But if we're not able to take advantage of these opportunities, what we'll find is that the exploiter class and the oppressor class because of their losses abroad, will try to compensate by taking it out of our domestic hides. What I mean by that is that sadly and unfortunately, there probably will be significant deportations if Trump has his way. Already the investor class has been bidding up the price of prison industrial complex stocks.
They expect mass detentions to take place. Now this is going to wound severely agribusiness. This is going to ruin severely the construction industry, which is heavily dependent upon Latino workers, but it's also going to severely punish Haitians in particular. 300,000 have temporary protective status and Mr. Trump has already placed them in the crosshairs with his racist comments about they're eating people's pets.
This is going to complicate relations with Mexico. It's going to complicate relations with Venezuela. And speaking of which, I think that it's also going to complicate relations perhaps with Cuba. And it reminds me that if I may be allowed to give some advice to our friends in Latin America, we desperately need closer and tighter relations between Mexico and Cuba, which of course stretches back.
200 years to the 1820s when I've written about how Mexico was contemplating invading Cuba to overthrow slavery forcibly, which is one of the reasons why Mexico was under so much attack back then by the United States of America. Now, the People's Republic of China is going to be a major target. In fact, you can make an argument that that's going to be the North Star. of Mr. Trump's foreign policy, but there's gonna be so many contradictions.
His fair-haired boy, Elon Musk, his business, Tesla, is heavily dependent upon the Chinese market. His home girl, Miriam Adelson, the billionaire who contributes to Netanyahu and Trump, she has enormous interest in casinos in Macau, the territory once ruled by Portugal, now ruled by China. I'm not sure how they're gonna square that circle.
Perhaps Musk and Miriam feel that their closeness to Trump will allow them to put pressure on the Chinese Communist Party. But in any event, it seems to me it's gonna create enormous contradictions. And we're going to have to try to find a way. to take advantage of that.
And speaking of which, as a footnote, I should mention this quote coincidence, unquote, that you have all of these South African billionaires who were in Trump's corner. We mentioned this before, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, formerly of the former German Southwest Africa, now Namibia, where the first genocide of the 20th century took place, 1904 to 1908. David Marks, formerly, David Sachs, excuse me. formerly of Cape Town, South Africa, now a major Republican donor. Rolabotha, that name may ring a bell.
His grandfather was the last foreign minister of apartheid South Africa. Now he's a titan in Silicon Valley in terms of venture capital. And you would not be exaggerating to suspect that they may want to recreate the inequality that they had to flee in Southern Africa to recreate that kind of unequal society here in North America. Now...
With regard to China, obviously, the corporations that are invested there like Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, KFC, they may have to take a haircut with this tension rising with the People's Republic of China. We're gonna have to find a way to take advantage of this. But it seems to me that another problem that the US ruling elite will face is that in order to effectuate this China in the crosshairs strategy, as Mr. Trump has made clear, they're going to make overtures to Russia.
And Russia is really in the catbird seat right now, because Beijing obviously is close to Russia, New Delhi is close to Russia, and as well, Washington is going to try to make overtures to Russia. Now, this is going to run smack dab into the Russophobia of US society, which I've argued stretches back centuries. to the time when Russia was the mediator after the 1812 war, when they were designated by London and Washington to determine if the slave owners should be compensated because thousands of enslaved Africans fled to British lines. I thought that Russia actually compensated the slave owners quite well. They did not think so.
And that helps to ignite their antipathy towards Russia. Ignited further during the Crimea war when Britain and France ganged up. on Russia and of course many still smarting over that decision after the 1812 war joined in. And then Russia sided with the Lincoln government during the Civil War, which alienated the slave owners. I don't have to tell you about the Bolshevik Revolution and the aftermath there, not to mention even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russophobia has continued.
And so it's particularly strong in the media and in academia. So that's gonna create enormous problems for the Trump coalition. Obviously, Ukraine is disadvantaged. Mr. Trump has made it clear he plans to pull the plug on that escapee.
NATO, that's gonna be very tricky. Because on the one hand, Mr. Trump is gonna try to run this protection racket. That is to say, unless the NATO countries spend more with Boeing, Northrop Grumman. Lockheed Martin and the US military industrial complex, he says he's going to stand aside if they face a challenge from Russia. He's going to try to do the same thing across the continent in Asia.
That is the import of his trying to make friends with North Korea. That is to say that unless South Korea and Japan pay up, then he may even encourage North Korea to worsen relations with Seoul and Tokyo. The problem there, from Mr. Trump's point of view, is that this puts emphasis on the role of France.
France is the country that conceivably could organize an anti-Trump coalition. They have the left-wing anti-imperialist forces represented in their parliament. They have the pretentious French ruling elite symbolized by Mr. Macron.
Also, pay attention to Quebec, recall. that during the time of Charles de Gaulle, the former French leader, he came to our northern neighbor and encouraged Quebec sovereignty and independence. That may be a trump card, pardon the expression, that can be used by France. Likewise, Canada is in very deep trouble. We've mentioned this before.
They have bad relations with Russia, China, and India simultaneously. And then Mr. Trudeau, the current Liberal Prime Minister, is on his way out. And if Canada is not careful, the centuries long US ambition, which was the import of the 1812 war to swallow Canada, that that'll come back into play.
The problem that France would have in organizing an anti Trump coalition is that their partner in Germany is falling apart. The Schultz coalition is falling apart. Then Mr Trump is very close personally to the Polish regime.
The Polish regime. for reasons not altogether terrible or very hostile to Berlin. And of course, you can trace it back at least to World War II. And the Poles under the radar are arming quite significantly and turning over a good deal of their tax dollars to the US military industrial complex as a result. And so that's going to complicate any attempt if France were so inclined to organize some sort of anti-US imperialist coalition.
South Africa is going to be in the crosshairs. The US is very upset with South Africa because they're dragging US ally Israel into the International Court of Justice. You know that Mr. Biden has headed to Angola in his last foreign trip before turning over the reins of power in January in order to gain leverage with this neighbor of South Africa.
... The United States is upset with South Africa because of its role in the BRICS, Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. Nigeria, which also has been co-opted to the BRICS, has the disadvantage, as we noted last week, of housing the Boulos family, the new in-laws of the Trumps, their son married to Tiffany Trump.
And of course, as we pointed out before, the Lebanese diaspora. sort of a compadre class in West Africa, in Nigeria, in Liberia, and of course crossing the Atlantic into Haiti as well. And so these are sort of some of the complications that imperialism will face internationally. And we may be able to take advantage of those particular difficulties, but we won't be able to take advantage of these difficulties unless we understand the larger picture. Unless, for example, our friends in the Black Liberation Movement recognize that the compromise of 1954 has expired, that is to say, throwing overboard internationalism and the critique of imperialist foreign policy in return for anti-Jim Crow concessions.
That expired years ago, although you'd never know it from the way some of our leadership and some of our activists conduct themselves. I think the corporate media needs to engage in some self-criticism as well. MSNBC should recognize. That their strategy of building bridges to the so-called never Trump Republican, Joe Scarborough, Nicole Wallace, Michael Steele, that it hasn't panned out because the never Trump Republicans, they don't have a base.
As the saying goes, it's enough of them for a dinner party, but not a political party. What they need to do, if they had any sense and any courage, would be to build bridges to those who are left of liberal. But I'm not optimistic about MSNBC having the courage or intelligence to pursue that particular policy.
So it seems to me they may be on the path to extinction. With regard to the women's movement, to make a statement about the domestic politics, obviously there was disappointment that the gender gap did not play out the way that some had expected, but any... one who knows a thing or three about U.S. domestic politics. I mean, for example, I've written in my book that if you go back to the origins of enslavement in London in the late 1500s, a major initial beneficiary were middle-class English women who were able to use enslaved Africans as a sort of household appliance to liberate them from household tasks. And Stephanie Rogers of UC Berkeley has written an entire book about the Euro-American women as slave owners, for example.
I've interviewed her and you can find that interview on the Activist News Network. And so that particular sector of the feminist movement needs to recognize that the attack on DEI and affirmative action, diversity, equity, inclusion, has them in the crosshairs and they should expect to be wounded. as a result.
I should also say that if I were a superficial analyst, I would engage in the kind of rhetoric that was engaged in pre-November 5th. about the supposed weaknesses of black men and their purported misogyny. I mean, for example, to cross the Atlantic, Timmy Batnach, a woman of Nigerian ancestry, has just been appointed leader of the Tory party, a lineal descendant of Margaret Thatcher, stone cold conservative. Winsome Sears, woman of Jamaican ancestry, who is going to be running for governor of Virginia, to the right of Mr. Trump.
Crossing the... continent to San Francisco where Brooke Jenkins, a Black woman, replaces Chesa Boudin, legatee of a historic left-wing family, as DA, and then throws the book at Black defenders. Now, if I were a superficial analyst like Mr. Obama, I would say, what's wrong with these Black women, for example?
Why are they turning so much to the right? But that's obviously ludicrous and ridiculous. And then most important of all, with regard to the labor movement, there needs to be some sort of recognition. of how class collaboration has been an essential element of settler colonialism. I mean, how much do we have to learn in order to understand what's staring us in the face?
Recall Sean O'Brien, the leader of the Teamsters, speaking at the Republican Party Convention. Recall Harold Daggett, the leader of East Coast Longshore, a man whose salary is $900,000 plus a year, New York Post. his erstwhile ally pulled the covers off of him during their abortive strike by publishing a picture on their front page of his palatial New Jersey mansion, not to mention his Bentley.
And of course, you don't know what a Bentley is, ask your local rapper. And so we need a deeper understanding of this question of class collaboration. But I'm afraid to say that right now does not seem to be in the offing. But the good news is that This right-wing victory, a victory for counter-revolution, is carrying the seeds of its own demise or its own contradictions, I should say. Its demise will be dependent upon ours being able to take advantage of these contradictions and particularly taking advantage on the international scene, where I think it's fair to say that the compromises that Mr. Trump is going to have to make with Russia is an example.
of a compromise driven by weakness of US imperialism. And I'm also afraid to say that it also exposes the blinker policy of the Democrats who are trying to go toe to toe with Russia and China simultaneously, which was obviously a fool's errand. From the point of view of US imperialism, it makes more sense to try to cut a deal with Russia, just like Nixon and Kissinger cut a deal with China against the Soviet Union. a half century ago, leading to the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991. Now, Trump is going to try, as they say, a reverse Nixon-Kissinger, but I don't think it's going to work.
And the question is, can we take advantage of it? Thank you, Dr. Wong, for that incredibly comprehensive answer. Before we move on to the next question about elections in Southern Africa, is there anything more you wanted to say about the US election?
I just want to make sure that we go through anything you . Who else do you want to discuss? Well, I've left out a lot of domestic issues, but I'll be covering those tomorrow morning on WBAI Pacifica Radio, WBAI.org at 9 a.m. Eastern for an entire hour.
But I will mention this. One of the striking aspects of the Republican Party campaign, which obviously struck a chord, were their anti-trans ads. I mean, here in Texas, that seemed to be the only issue on the table.
And. That is a beleaguered, besieged community that is being targeted. And obviously, we need to develop better strategies in order to deal with that sort of demagogic approach.
Thank you for that. And just so the audience knows, I will upload the interview Dr. Warren is doing, at least one of the interviews Dr. Warren is doing tomorrow to Activist News Network at some point tomorrow. But Dr. Wan, as we go around the horn, we also wanted to ask you about Southern Africa and Botswana this past Friday, November 1st.
Duma Boko, Botswana's new president, took office after elections that ended nearly 60 years of rule by the ruling Botswana Democratic Party, the BDP. In Mozambique, on October 24th, Mozambique's electoral commission announced that the free limo candidate, Daniel Chapo, won the election with 71% of the vote. However, there's been...
and continues to be protests and political violence surrounding this election. Namibia also has a presidential and parliamentary elections coming up November 27th. Dr. Huang, what should our audience be aware of regarding these elections and any other issues related?
Are there any other issues related to Southern Africa, including South Africa and Zimbabwe that we should be paying attention to? Well, I have to say I've resisted talking about Mozambique because it makes me sad. It makes me sad because I recall the glory days of Mozambique post-1975 under Fray Limo. The still continuing ruling party, their leader, Samora Michelle, killed tragically by the apartheid authorities as they helped to direct his plane into a mountain, killing him and his Soviet pilot and a number of franlimo comrades, some of whom I knew, including Carlos Lobo, who was a graduate of Cal State Long Beach, for example. And then after that, the US right wing descended like locusts on Mozambique, sponsoring a terrorist whose specialty was cutting off the noses and lips of African peasants.
And then to today, where some of the Gulf Arab nations and nationals are sponsoring so-called Islamic insurgency in the north, which has been devastating, calling on the Mozambican government. to call in not only Zimbabwe troops, but Rwandan troops. And so it pains me to talk about this recent election culminating a few weeks ago, where Franlimo was returned to power, but not without stiff and stern opposition.
You've had assaults in the streets of the capital Maputo on some of the opposition. It's quite unfortunate and it has yet to sort itself out. And with regard to South Africa, Afra mentioned, Part of the bill of indictment against South Africa is that the North Atlantic countries feel that it has not turned aggressively against the neighboring Zimbabwe, which as you know, engaged in land reform against the European invaders, some of whose roots only stretched back to 1945. And therefore Zimbabwe's economy was driven into the ditch.
The United States and Britain and Australia expect the South Africa to go along, it has not gone along. which I think was wise because the Zimbabweans, they're not chumps, they're not scrubs. They know how to organize. And not only that, but they're the chief ally of China on the African continent. So if South Africa had been sufficiently unwise to go after the Zimbabweans, it would have blown up in their faces.
In any case, Zimbabwe was forced to pay a kind of reparations, believe it or not, to some of these farmers, some of these European farmers, for example. I find it curious that Washington, which opposes reparations to the descendants of enslaved Africans, was clamoring for reparations to these thieving farmers who had been paid off. Namibia is going to have elections within the next year or so. It has a reparations claim against Germany, where, as noted, the Trump supporter Peter Thiel spent his many of his teenage years in that former German colony where the first genocide of the 20th century took place. And of course, the Namibians are demanding reparations as a result.
And so the good news is that when Mr. Biden lands in Luanda, Angola, I expect the Angolans to be diplomatic and tactful, but I don't think they're gonna fall for this game. turning against the Zimbabweans, the Namibians, the South Africans, not to mention the Mozambicans across the continent. And once again, that's part of the good news.
And I should also mention that I just finished this manuscript titled The Capital of Slavery, Washington, D.C., 1800 to 1865. Look for it in about nine months. And so to reward myself, I'm coming to Manhattan. to watch a number of movies, including soundtrack to a coup d'etat.
If any of you are in New York City, you may want to check it out. The Lumumba murder and assassination intertwined with Black musicians, including Louis Armstrong and Max Roach, Abbie Lincoln, for example. It's quite a tale.
Steve McQueen, Grenadian descent, Black British. You may have recall 12 Years a Slave or Whereas with Viola Davis. Very interesting. This is his latest movie on Amazon Prime.
I plan to watch his documentary, Occupied City, which he's quite a creative and artistic filmmaker. And of course, I plan to see The Apprentice, the docudrama about Mr. Trump and his comrade and mentor Roy Cohn, the anti-communist lawyer under Joseph McCarthy. And then of course, there's Dahomey about the repatriation.
stolen art from what is now Benin, returning to France. And of course, there were some Black Americans who tried to intervene in that case, because from their point of view, they said that the art had been taken from those who had enslaved our ancestors. But as I understand it, their claim was rejected legally.
So some of these films can be found streaming. if you're not able to make it to Manhattan like I intend to do. Thank you, Doctor.
And I think Steve McQueen also directed and produced the series on Amazon Prime entitled... Small Axe. Very good series. Small Axe. It's very good.
About Black British communities. Yeah, and the first installment in that series, I can't recall the name right now, but it's a must watch. about the restaurant in London. Oh, man, I really want to...
Starts with an M. Anyway, thank you so much, Dr. Horn, for coming back on the show. Thank you so much for your election analysis and updating us on the elections in Southern Africa.
Thank you to the audience for tuning in. And we look forward to speaking with you next week, Dr. Horn. Thank you for inviting me.
We state these facts only to let you know that those of us who are revolutionary and African is... is not because we love revolution. It is historically determined, and we have no alternative but to follow history and to use history for the benefit of our people. Power!
Power! Power to the people! Power to the people! Free political prisoners!
Free political prisoners! All political prisoners! All political prisoners!