Gordon Kiteon is one of the most important people in this field who studied this thing for years. He's an ex- diplomat. He's a man who speaks 10 or 11 languages now. Mr. Kiteon, I've been studying this thing now for some weeks and I I find it a complete completely bewildering mystery. There are reports of lights in the sky. There are reports of figures appearing on streets. People are seeing uh little shapes in u craft. Is this something solid? Is this something real? Is it worldwide? What what's going on? Unquestionably something very extraordinary is going on. Unquestionably, it's very bewildering mystery. And uh we're glad to see that more and more very intelligent people are bringing their minds to bear on on these questions. Uh it's quite clear to me that since the end of the last war and in particular since the first release of nuclear energy here which I'm sure is connected with it uh there have been a tremendous number of very extraordinary things happening and this is happening all over the world. Uh we are getting reports from every corner of the globe of people who are seeing things like this. Uh that's a United States Air Force sketch of the type of creature which terrorized a household of people in Kentucky one night. Uh they shot at them with shotguns and uh they said that when the shot the pellets hit them, it sounded as they were firing into a bucket. This is a little figure about 3 ft high. little creature about 3 ft high with large ears which presumably comes from where? That's the question. What do you think? I have no idea and I'm sure nobody has. Uh here you have a case of something seen in a in the Renault factory in Cordoba in northern Argentina in 1972. A large thing which was uh humanlike. Again, it was seen in the man's washroom in many other parts of the of the factory. encountered by a whole lot of people. Uh it caused electrical phenomena. It caused the internal combustion engine to stop when people came near it and the runabouts. It was seen to go up. These creatures were actually seen to leave the factory at night by people outside the factory. These creatures were seen to go up into to be drawn up into mysterious craft. Now in the early years and I say that uh when I say the early years for me that means nearly 30 years ago because I saw one of these things in China in 1931 41 I'm sorry 1941 when I was in the embassy there I naturally didn't say there goes a flying saucer because the term hadn't been coined then but I did think I'd seen something very extraordinary and I never forgot what I'd seen and some years later I was in America and I began to see the reports in the press, heavily censored reports some of them and things. Yes. By because of military reports of things that were seen over the Western Front. Uh and my files began then and this house is bulging now with file. I was so upset because so many of my own friends had been murdered by the Reds. I resigned from the foreign service and I then went to the Ministry of Defense as an intelligence officer specializing in Russian and Chinese matters. You see, but then you see for nearly 10 years I found myself working in a top secret department on the next floor underneath the floor where the Royal Air Force was studying EUS. So at a very early date I got confirmation that EUOS existed. My good. And although I wasn't involved in their work, I was in the same building with them. I spent a good many years in the British Foreign Service. I was in the Far Eastern department. So I became a China specialist and I had already done Russian at Cambridge. So in the end I had these two languages which of course I used a great deal in this work and I spent 10 years in China and it was there in 1941 when I was back again there with the embassy as it was now an embassy and uh I had this sighting of what we call a EUO. Of course, uh I didn't say there goes a flying saucer or there goes a UFO, but because this was six years, of course, before Kenneth Arnold look was whitish disc, totally silent, apparently flying extremely fast, and it had a bluish light on top on the apex. Uh it was that bluish color that you get in arc welding and that was coming on rhythmically so that as it went across the sky you could say it's coming on there it's got to come on there got to come on there going on come on there and that was flying from the northeast that would be from Manuria way to more or less towards Burma towards the southwest well I never forgot that I sort of put it in the back burner I thought can I go back was this daytime or nighttime oh daytime midday and it was not high it was flying underneath the clouds totally silent It certainly was very fast because it was much faster than the the famous Japanese fight of the zero which we were already seeing at that time. Chinese communists took over. Um I didn't feel happy about the uh British policy and recognized them anyway. Uh USA didn't but we did and I think it was a mistake. And uh I also felt very strongly that uh USA should have backed Yanka anyway. you wouldn't have had a Vietnam war or a Korean war, but uh that's all brought water under the bridge. Um so I resigned from the service and uh I then went to the Ministry of Defense in White Hall which were quite close to foreign office of course and as an intelligence officer in view of my knowledge of Russian and Chinese and I was working therefore on intelligence matters to do with those two countries and therefore no way in no way was it connected with the EUO problem but the fact was that physically I was on the next floor underneath this department which we knew was dealing with eupos. So a I had seen something in China and b I was now underneath this department which was said to be dealing with the same subject. So I already very felt very certain. What year would that have been? Uh this would be 53. And and what do you know what this division was called? Uh, you mean the uh what my division was? No, the division dealing with the UFO problem. I think it was air tech air technical. But having of course seen something and having while I was in the states seen the the newspaper accounts heavily censored by the way about the foo fighters or crowd balls as the American pilots call them. I was already quite sure you see I I wasn't I wasn't one who believed that euphos might exist. I was satisfied they exist. I've met Germans who've seen them, of course, German pilots. I've talked to RAF people who certainly saw them probably small m you know small devices of the probably the Foo Fighter type described to me always as um small globular either silvery or golden or fiery perhaps a foot or two wide. I imagine they were telemetering devices of some sort. I understand that a very interesting thing happened in Germany after the war when the allies were occupying Germany. One of our bombers was flying over Germany very low. Of course, it was not the pressurized height. Flying very low with a waist hatch open. And apparently one of these things came in and flew up and down inside. Of course, the whole crew of eight or so saw it and it then flew out again. So it probably took a total reading of every man there, you know, picture of him and took even his blood pressure and his state of mental development if any and spiritual develop lot probably and out it went. And you know that in Brazil where I was some years later. uh one crashed at a place called Uber Tuba and the bits were salvaged and I think they ended up with the Americans in the end and I believe it was found to be very largely um uh what's the stuff that magnesium largely the content in other words it was something expendable he was starting to collect uh names you know already for for subscriptions and two of the first requests we got were from the Duke of Edinburgh and from his uncle Mount Batton. Now um the interesting thing there is that in that same year 54 uh this proves the interest that the Duke had in the subject. It was announced in the press that he had requested the British Ministry of Defense to give him a copy of every EU report they had. So that shows his interest at a very early date. Uh naturally the magazine went to him from then on to the Duke and is still going to him. In fact I also sent it to Prince Charles and of course it went to the uncle Lord Mount Batton until he was till he was assassinated. She was in London and she was reporting back and she said that I and my husband were at a cocktail party last night and we met a man, a man whose name is known to every American, a man of cabinet rank who told us the story about the crash of craft with small occupants. But I interpreted that as being a British crash. I didn't know that was Rosswall. But the interesting thing is that we do know that on the estate of Lord Mountbatton which is in the south of England down near South Hampton the estate is called Broadlands that in the early 60s I think it was the early very early we published the story the whole story in the early 60s he had a man working on the estates on the estates a groundsman I think of working outside anyway. And this chap apparently one morning it was wintertime with snow on the ground and he was coming in and he apparently saw Euo hovering and I believe I'm right in saying he saw it land and uh he was pretty shaken when he came into the house. So they took this man whose name was Bridges who had been in the British army in the war. They took bridges in to see Mount Batton and Mount Batton asked him to tell his story and opened pulled out a drawer and got a lot of different types of EUO photos out and showed it to see was it this one, was it this type, this and apparently Bridget indicated that one which was uh model or more or less like it. And uh then they got the girl, the secretary to come in and Bridges made his statement. They took six copies of it. Uh Bridges signed them all and they gave him a copy to keep and the uh Mount Bton put the other five in the drawer and that was that. Well, we got the story. I think we got it from Desmond Leslie, but anyhow, we published it at the time. So you see there it had been landing on on the estate of of Mount Batton and there was Mount Batton's great interest and of course one of my closest friends was Heinik and when Heinik came over here the first time uh I went on behalf of our group to meet him and took him out to lunch and he told me a very interesting thing and this ought to go on the record I think he said you he told me that Up till then the US authorities had not been showing him any of the cases that were being coming in from CIA overseas or from embassies or consils. It was desperately important as we see from Corso's book. It was desperately important that the Soviets shouldn't know what the Americans found out. Of course, we now know, by the way, we now know that the Stalin was quicker off the mark than the Americans were because you probably know the story of this Stalin. Stalin became aware of at a very early date in 47 after the story of after Kent Arnold. And Scarin was collecting reports from all over the place and one day he called in the top uh a young astronomer that you remember named uh Coralv Corof and uh showed him all these reports and Stalin said to him, "Sit down there and look at that. What do you think about it?" And apparently Coral off said, "Well, can I take it home and look at it?" And Stalin said, "No, you're going to sit here in the criminal. You until you can stay here until I get your answer." So apparently he gave him the answer. He said, "Yes, it's um it's not of this world. It's not of this earth. It's not terrestrial." Uh and then Stalin apparently wanted him to take over control of it. You remember? And Coralov said, "Well, if you don't mind, I'm an astronomer and basist and I don't really want to do that." And of course, he went on to be the head of the whole Soviet uh rocket program. Had a very tremendous career. But um obviously from the American point of view, it was desperately important that the that they should keep it top secret. Well, I'm sure I I well you could say that the end time for ending the secrecy arrived when certainly when the Soviet uh when the Soviet Empire dissolved because there wasn't that danger any longer. Very little has leaked out over here. A lot less leaked out here than over on your side. They really have to kept the lid on it well here. But I've always had the impression that the the Americans were giving them here very little information. And that's not surprising because uh there's more knowledge about the subject over on that side than anywhere. And I'm quite certain of course that if ever we do get a breakthrough and we solve this problem, it will be done in the states. And that as Heinik said to me several times when we discussed I I I once I remember asking him what do you think caused this assuming that they've always been there but what caused this great interest in us this large incursion after 47 and I remember he thought for a moment he said well obviously yet atom bomb if you think of if you accept the multi-dimensional theory it's highly likely that we've done a hell of a lot of damage in somebody else's world. They might have even done more damage there than we did here. And if you kick the beehive, you're not you shouldn't be surprised. The bees come out and look at you. And if they if you've hurt, they might even sting you. And uh so I I my answer is I think it's enormously complicated problem. If he carries on as he is, he's like a child playing with a bit of chunk of dynamite and a hammer. H he's going to destroy himself. Man could have survived forever with bows and arrows. He's not going to coexist for forever with his present technology. One of the other is going. I am certain that measures have been taken by agencies to terminate people who are who appear to be inconvenient or troublesome through knowing too much. I suspect that it has happened with at least one editor of Flying Source Review. I suspect that it happened with a man with MK Jessup in the states. Uh I'm very puzzled about uh James Macdonald. I cannot understand why that man should who had a perfectly happy life apparently a happy cannot understand that he should have replied attempted as he did to to kill himself as he did and to finally do it so terribly. Kennedy may have been uh may have enga been engaged in a bit of a struggle with the CIA in trying uh attempted to get more information on the EUO subject and that ostensibly this story goes that he might have been thinking regarding the EUO subject is so serious that he ought to take it up with the Russians. Now, if he was thinking of taking it up with the Russians, they may have thought this was a premature and very dangerous thing to do, and that might account for his termination. I wonder. I think certainly there have been crash crafts. I'm sure the American authorities have got corpses preserved, quite a number of them probably. And uh I suspect that some other countries have too, possibly the Russians. Uh we have a lot of evidence of people being maltreated. We have a lot of evidence of cases of people who've been uh who've been killed, who've been burnt badly by radiation, by ray, unknown forms of rays, people who be carried off and have certainly not come back again. Uh none of this looks to me like the behavior of benevolent beings and therefore it's not surprising that uh you've mentioned the attitude of governments, not surprising the governments aren't saying anything about it. And I don't want to go on record as being critical of the governments for their view. I think it's a very serious matter. Uh I think it is not one that one can bring to the attention of everybody. In other words, you're telling me there's a deliberate plan to keep this away from Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. And I think very wisely because if many people knew what I know about it from my study of it over now over many years, they they might be very alarmed. We had many cases on record of cattle being taken. I'm glad to think that some of them like beef. There might be other forms of protein that they might be after which would be rather more alarming. Um we have many cases on record where they've been seen taking rocks, stones, vegetation, plants, exactly the things that we would do and have done on the moon already would do on any other planet we landed on when exploring. These do look like extraterrestrial explorers and with intent with people intentionally fishing around, noing around with with a purpose. We also have many alarming cases alarming because we don't know the implications of them of blood being taken from people and also semen and also over from women. Uh there is at least one good case of uh sexual intercourse and I would think several which would stand up to scrutiny. Now you have to bear in mind that these people who have these experiences are are not readers of flying source review. They're they're not members of flying sauces spotting clubs. They're ordinary people and they're very often if it's South America there may be illiterate peasants on the slopes of the Andes. And yet all over the world people are having experiences which fall into a recognizable slot which means that you and I have to face up to the possibility that this is mental illness which is happening. In fact these are the emanations of people who are ill. um it would be a very nice theory and if it were that then I think the medical profession have wasted a lot of time in not getting on to it but we have a lot of doctors who are interested in the subject and I don't know any of them who believe that it is mental illness uh we do admit that there are cases of people who are very seriously disturbed after having the experience but not before certainly about 15 years ago uh I like most people thought that this must be from outer case, but uh I've long ago ceased to think that it is necessarily the only possible exception uh explanation. I think that there can probably very likely be other realities where here around us now yes on a different different time scale you mean time space framework anything other dimensions you like we don't have the vocabulary for it so it really isn't worth talking about it surrounding us now in this room yes I might be sticking my finger through many worlds I do this Eastern religions have always said that this is so so that um I do not think that we see the whole of reality. I think we have a very limited view of reality and this is the big problem for man really in exploring this thing and following up to know where they come from. Now I wanted to show you some of these early terms which interests me. Now let's take a an early language like Sanskrit. Now you find in the classical writings of India in Sanskrit in the Marata and the Ramayana you'll find references to a machine or a vehicle described as a vimmana. There it is in Sanskrit vimmana. And you see what it's called? It's called a celestial chariot of the gods or an aerial car. But now you take modern modern Hindi language which is the descendant of Sanskrit. This isn't actually uh English Hindi. I haven't got English. This is Russian Hindi. And I look up Samot in Russian which is the word for an airplane. And what do I find? Vima. So there it is. Now here I have the New English Bible. And again there are very interesting words which occur in Hebrew. Um there is first of all Ezekiel's famous experience because Ezekiel saw something and he was afterwards taken a loft. It's described as gal a wheel and of course you have one objection to this that I've read is that Ezekiel saw a vision and not a thing. Well, I can only tell you that uh a man in America, I forget his name at the moment, but he is a space scientist has just written a very convincing book about it and he fully it's out in paperback in this country and uh is it Blumrich? I think his name is Bloomri. He fully accepts the thesis that this is an attempt by a member of a non-technological society to describe what we would call some kind of machine. I think in fact that we're going to find out if we are given time to find it out. That first of all that we are not the first humanity that's been on this planet anyway. There have been quite a number of others that have come unstuck or been wiped out. Secondly, that man is not just the product of chance of the ordinary workings out of uh blind evolution. He's that plus something else. That in other words, we are the result of some very superior engineering by somebody somewhere. And I think that opposed to those forces, the creative powers of the cosmos, there are others who you could describe as the opposition or the people who are throwing spanners in the works. I suspect that there is a very great struggle going on for control of us. Now there is a group in America from whom I've heard in recent years who claim that they have evidence that there are four different lots who are struggling for control of homo sap. Me you. Yeah. And um they would have quite different viewpoints and might all not all be what we would call benevolent. Uh this would explain a great deal because almost without exception these beings of different sizes and shape are never seen in in association with each other nor are they reported in the papers. No you mean as as in association? Well you don't pick up your morning paper and read about these things happening daily. Of course you don't. But the why the reason for that is that there there are subtle methods of seeing that that doesn't happen. I'm not suggesting that there's a D notice. I don't think they do it by anything as unsuttle as a D notice, but uh there are other ways. Uh I'm sure that phone calls are put through and an item which was not considered helpful is removed. I' I've noticed this myself many times. What what what prompted me to call you and get you uh get you on the program tonight was an interesting quote that I had seen of uh uh Lord Hill Norton something that he had written uh or something I guess it was it was something that appeared in the London Times uh the Times of London talking about the warns of satanic UFOs and uh your name was brought up in this and uh I can't hear you. Okay. your name was brought up in this and uh so I was I'm wondering you know when we talked about this on the phone the other day when we set up the interview you were you were telling me your take on the UFO phenomena what it represents and I thought that was very interesting. Yeah. For the audience what uh what is your take on this? Tell me did you get the facts we sent you? No we did not get it. Oh I've sent you a fact. Yeah we I did not get it. Oh, sorry. I gave you a facts all about this uh work that I did on the study of Islam as the Arabic language. Okay. You have not got it. I've not got it. We said it here. Did not come through. But anyway, go ahead and tell us about that. Well, it's a very it's a very difficult thing to give the whole of that on a radio uh talk. But of course um what I did was to suggest it was published in flying source review in uh 1988. It's been published twice actually and it was an account of the many years of work that I'd done on Arabic which is one of the lang one of the many languages I've studied and those were the conclusions I'd reached namely that a lot of the phenomenon uh which we call the EU phenomenon is probably not extraterrestrial at all but comes from somewhere much much closer comes right here and from other dimensions from other dimensions. There are a great many researchers now are coming to that opinion. After all, Dr. Alan Highneck was a very great friend of mine right from the start and the first person he ever met when he came to Britain the first time was me and he was in close touch with us the whole time and he always said that there is no there is so far no real evidence that is extraterrestrial. Jacqu Valet says the same thing. I do not believe it's extra. There may might be some there might be small some part of it might be but uh after all we'd be to the bone so or humans be Americans to be to the moon. Mhm. It's a little ways a tiny step. Uh and and I believe that at Roswell I'm talking about the real crash of Rosell, right? Not the t not the timb as we call it. We have a wonderful word, Tim timbam, because uh we are rather refined people. We're British. We're not like you crude American colonials. We never talk. We never allow the word to pass our lips. We flipped timbam terminal male bobine anal material. Oh, that's talked about Roswell. Okay. But there was a real case at Roswell and we have written a lot about that. And of course, I think that that was real. That was material. And there were I believe there were real bodies there. What were these bodies though? Well, I don't think they were like what was showed in that film. That film must have been something else. Now, you're talking about the uh the Santilly film, right? Yeah. I think that was uh Tim Bam myself. That was Tim Bam. Yes. But uh the real the real uh Rosful affair was was dealt with for many years by an excellent man in your country. Uh that was Leonard Stringfield and he did a he devoted his life to it. Right. And we published the gist of his of his findings over a long period of time. Now there's been some very good work done by other people since. Okay. Now, excuse me. You you were just saying earlier that you have studied Islam. Yeah. What is it that the Quran tells us about what I don't get the idea that I'm an Islam fanatic? No, no, no. I I'm not of that. I just There's a lot about them I don't like. Okay. So, um wrong, Gordon. Let me I'm My main interest is my main language is Chinese. Okay. And uh and I'm more interested in Buddhism if you're talking about religion. But anyway, um I am I do think that in Islam, in the Quran, you'll find and it's in the Quran. You've got to look. You'll find very interesting material bearing on this subject. And that's why I emphasize it. Gordon, when we went to break, we were talking about the Quran and we're talking about what the Quran says about Yeah. What is this? Well, I don't want to devote the whole talk to that because uh actually the the article I wrote on it is a very long one but I think a whole of it has been on the internet already. Okay. uh some time ago and uh but I would advise people to look carefully at what the Quran says about it because there are some hints there and uh I think if you were to talk to an officer of the Saudi Arabian air force for example uh these are pretty well educated chaps I think you'd find that they all have uh if you mention this to them they say yes it's uh you So we know about that and we think it's highly probable. It's an explanation of some of the phenomenon. I'm not saying all of it. Okay. Now we're talking all the Okay. But we're talking around this. What is the phenomena that they're saying that it is? Uh they call them gins. Gins a i n or dj i n. Now is that in the same thing as what we might know as genies? Well, our word genie, I think, is is a kind of corruption of that word. Yes. Okay. Uh, and most people most people think it's just uh uh funny stuff from uh the Arabian Knights and all that sort of thing, but there are a lot of Muslims that take it very seriously. And um it's it's what it's the same thing as we deal with in psychic research. I've been a member of the British Society for Psychical Research for about 40 years. And of course we've got a lot of very sound scientific doctors and scientists and people like that who are members of and they all they realize that we're dealing with something that is of that order. uh you've had in the states uh Robert Dean Bob Dean who was uh with the forces in Europe for many years and he's talked lectured and written a lot about uh the EUO prolong phenomenon and I I understand that Bob Dean agrees that what we're dealing with some of it may be physical as we know it some may not be physical as we know it it may be other dimensional well now what's the characteristic may be one more than one may may all the more than onedimensional level of bold. Now you had in the states immediately after World War II you had a very interesting man in the states named Dr. Me Lane. I think most people now forgotten about him, but he wrote one or two very interesting books on this subject and uh the coming of the of the guardians, I think, and then the coming of the ether ships. And he uh he suggested and I think there's very good evidence for it. He was on the right track that there may be such a thing as the what he called the dense ether. And of course you know that for many years people have scoffed at the old anc idea of the ether. But right we've had one or two very important scientists in recent years in Britain. We had a British scientist named Derek D. it's a French name but he he himself was an Englishman uh up until recently and he's been talking very seriously about the well we've got to go back to the idea. But this is where that some people believe that the according to me lame and according to people like India there may be matter which interpenetrates our matter which is denser than ours not less dense but more dense and it more dense so much that we're not it's not perceptible to us. Mhm. Uh it's very important that you one go into all these ideas and especially look at the ideas of melane. Okay. P A D E L A Y N E. Okay, let's take a call. We've got Gary calling in from our affiliate KCMO in Kansas City. Good evening, Gary. Hi. Hi. I was wanting to ask him if he has uh checked into the United States Patent Office as far as anything being patented, specifically one patent in particular. What's that? 3,177,654 patented April 13, 1965. I'm looking at it right now. Okay. What is it? electric aerospace propulsion system. It is a flying UFO. Interesting. Got a comment on that, Gordon? Well, no, I don't know about that. I don't doubt it. I'm sure that they've been working on these things for years. They're not the Americans, not the only ones. How did you find this, Gary? Uh Rex Research in Gene, Nevada. Okay. It was all the anti-gravity patents. There's over 200 pages. It doesn't surprise you the least. Okay. Uh Gary, yes. Uh could I get you to possibly talk to me off air about that? Sure. Okay. Um uh I'll put you on hold and I'll have uh the producer out there take down your phone number and I'll give you a call. Thank you. Thank you. Hold on a second here. Let me put him on hold. There he goes. Okay. I'm in. Hello. Yes, I'm here. There's no doubt that you've got some very interesting things flying around in the States today. And uh it may well be that there's a lot of alien technology in it. Uh we've just seen the very interesting book by Colonel Corsy Corso. Philip Corso called the day after Roswell. Right. Right. Morning after Roswell or the day after Roswell. Uh this man who was had very high held very high positions in your forces. He's still alive. He has now spilled the beans because he has revealed that a great deal of the latest technology was derived from crash from the specifically from either one crash duper or from several. Mhm. So uh this book by Corsy which has only just come out recently this year it should be looked at very very carefully. I agree. I agree. We were doing that too as well. Yes. Very important. Uh real quick before we go to our next break, um what are some of the characteristics and after we talk about this we'll move on to another subject, but what are some of the characteristics that the gins have that uh mimic or look like the aliens? Jin is connected with the word the Arabic word janna being concealed being hidden. Okay. So the idea is that these are beings that are not normally perceptible to us but they're there watching us time as it were lying doggo and um this could be another way of putting it that they're in another dimensional setup but right close. Okay. And after all you if you look the latest findings of the of the top scientists in these fields in subatomic physics and that's that's in the states where the all this leading work is going on the you have these very important new theories like the super strength theory and so on and there they don't laugh at you any longer if you talk about a multi-dimensional universe. Okay, I understand that uh uh it's not at all uh stupid now to talk about the theory of a universe of tendiment. Are gins cons? Are gins considered to be malevolent or uh dangerous in any way? The thing is it's quite clear from the Quran that they are a whole body of beings of many species. Uh it's really what what we in the west call spirits. You have to understand that. Okay, they we're dealing with psychic phenomena. And uh the Quran makes it quite clear that some of them bad news. They're very bad and some of them not. And [Music] uh Muhammad who claimed to be bringing a new message to mankind specifically stated that my message is for the salvation of the gins as well as the salvation of mankind. So the thing is not left is not left evident. But the number one daddy of the jid this is a man is a being called bliss or shyan. And of course dadd is the Arabic word for Satan. Very interesting. The the the apolland which is what it means. Okay. So it's all there. Okay Gordon hold that thought. These ideas are right there at the bottom of Christianity of Judaism of Islam. There are these basic ideas of the forces of the light and the forces of darkness and it even goes back earlier than Christianity because you find it in the famous religion of Zoroastrianism and Manakianism which were in Iran even long before the coming of Christianity. Very interesting. Or or is or Islam long before. Okay. My guest tonight is Gordon Kraton. He's in the United Kingdom. We're talking about uh UFOs over there. And um Gordon, before we go on to in our next segment or discussion, let's take a call. We've got John calling in listening in on our affiliate KNZ in Grand Junction, but he's in central Montana. Good evening, John. Hello. Hi. How's it going? I love your program. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Where in central Montana are you? Near Lewis Town. Wow. It's great to have you call in. What's your comment or question? I wanted to get that patent number. Uh it was 3 million something, but I I didn't get it fast enough. Okay. Couldn't write it down. All right. I'll tell you what we're going to do. I I I took down uh Gary's phone number. Uh we're going to make contact with him. We might even do something on the show next week about it. Um if you want to take down my number at the end of the hour and call me, I will be happy to uh give you that patent number sometime during the week. Go for it. Okay. Uh you'll be listening to the end of the program. Uh, no. They don't get they don't play the last hour. Okay. Out of TNC. All right. Let me give it to you real quick. It's 303. All right. 863. Okay. 0484. Got it. Okay. That uh scientist Direct or that we pronounce Direct in the States here, he was saying that this ether medium is at least 10 billion times denser than water. And that would mean that if you could alter this ether, it would take very little effort to fly around the world like uh 1928 at the time he said it uh probably 25 cents worth of energy. Wow. Gordon, are you you listening to this? Gordon? Yes. Dear, very important scientist indeed. British scientist. Uh, can may I say something before we go any further? Yes, go ahead. I'd like to talk about elephants. I don't know whether your readers know the your old listeners know the story of the three blind men in Iran who set out to walk to China. They were walking to Cath. And on the way to Cath, the three blind men encountered an innocent. And of course, they got hold of this thing and started groping it. And one of them got hold of a great big leg like the trunk of a tree. And he started giving a running account of what this thing was to give a total account of description for and the other one another one at the other end was got hold of his tail and was swinging on that. The third one up at the front and got hold of the trunk and he was giving a running account on that. Now, each of those men gave a totally incomplete and totally unsatisfying account of of an elephant because none of them had seen their elephant. Uhhuh. And in this EUO business, don't none of us have seen our elephant yet. And that's what we're dealing with. Okay. That's what we're dealing with. It's very interesting. John, any other comments or questions? I sure don't. I sure enjoy your program. It's It's great to hear it and I love the bumper music for it, too. Great. Well, thanks for calling in. Appreciate the time. Thank you. No problem. Keep keep listening. I will. Okay. That was John from Central Montana listening in on KNZ in Grand Junction. The signals getting out. Gordon, um, we don't have much time left. I wanted to ask you uh in your years of doing this stuff that you've been doing, you've been involved in some respects, I guess, with some of the the stuff that's going on in in the UK. What do you think the British government knows about the UFO phenomena? Well, it knows what the US government knows. And that is what? Well, they know a hell of a lot. Do they keep it opinion? Do they keep it from the public there? Well, of course they do. And I'm not going to criticize them for it either. I think they're very wise. And why is that? Because I think if the real facts as we know them uh were given out generally, you'd get massive panic. Don't forget that the governments of the world have never forgotten that Orson Wells radio program in 1938. Never. They've never forgotten that. You say no. You don't think that our culture or society would be able to deal with something like that? Not yet. No. Might never be able to. What uh what do you know about uh Admiral or Lord Hill Norton? Oh, he's a very he's one of our distinguished most distinguished uh uh defense people. He's a very outspoken proponent of the UFO theory, isn't he? Yes. Oh, yes. Uh he's a bit he's very much like Barry Goldwater in your country. He's very frustrated. He's held the top most po posts that there are and yet he's never been let into the on the facts. That's the basic thing about him that motivates him. He's very frustrated and of course long line of stand up. Okay, let's take another call real quick before we go to our break. Uh we've got uh Brenda calling in from our affiliate in Denver, 1280 Ralph. Good evening. Hi, Michael. I just wanted to ask Gordon um about beings that he mentioned in um the Quran. Uh the jin, would they correspond to angels in the Bible? Yeah. No, quite definitely not. The jin, the Quran is very interesting on this point. This is absolutely it's a key thing I'm going to say. The Quran says that beneath God, there are three types of beings on the earth. There is man whose body is made of soil or clay or earth. That's a very fine poetic way of saying that our bodies are made of the of the elements of the periodic table which is quite true. Uh it also states that there are the angels whose bodies are made of light. That's in Arabic it's n the angels have radiant bodies. uh malik is uh malik is the Arabic word for an angel and in Hebrew it's malik and they are high beings with bodies of radiant of radiant beautiful light and I'm perfectly sure that there are such beings and in recent years there have been many more accounts of them being encountered okay I've got to drop it especially for example even by Soviet astronauts okay we've got to Very extraordinary report. Gordon, we don't have much time left here to uh wrap up the program. With this kind of program, it's no good if you leave things hanging half said or hanging in the air unfinished. Okay. And we were talking about the position of the angels. A lot of this phenomenon is connected with that aspect. A lot of the beings that have been seen for the last 40, 50 years probably belong to that level. It's very important. Okay. Now I've mentioned that the alien being that the that the the angel angelic hosts according to that Islamic theory and it fits in completely with the degrees of Christianity are beings of radiant bodies rad bodies of light. Now and man has the body made of physical body made of the elementary table. Now what it does then say this is this is called very important. It says that the gins are beings who and it then gives us a term in Arabic which is almost untransatable. They are made of what's called smokeless flame or smokeless fire. Now I have discussed this with one particular one uh doctor an Arab who reads my magazine has read it for many years. He's an Arab trained in England and he was for many years some for some years he was the head of the medical radiation department of the University of Baghdad under Saddam Hussein. And he told me in a letter he said I think you're absolutely on the right track in what you say about the gins. He he said I do think that this does is right. Now the gins according to the Bible this I have to finish this according to the Quran I mean the gins have bodies which are made of this strange substance which is described as smokeless flame. I asked him as a learning man and a modern doctor what he thought this could possibly be and his reply to me was very interesting. He said, "I don't know. I suspect it's something that we don't humans don't know about yet." He suspect it's some kind of plasma. That's very interesting. No, plasma is an intermediate state between solids and gas. Okay. Well, that's we're going to have to wrap it up right there because we're out of time. I want to thank you very much for being on the program and again being awake for us at that early hour over on your side of the uh the coast. Want to thank you for being on the program, Gordon. Thanks.