[Music] [Applause] [Music] okay hi guys and welcome to the show today I'm gonna be sharing my top ten things to avoid when it comes to buying used pre-owned and most importantly vintage watches now of course before I get into this I'll do a quick wristwatch check and please don't tell the wife but I am wearing her Cartier tank quite incredible to think that last year 2017 was the hundredth anniversary of this incredible piece now this is a quartz although it does have a beautiful luxurious quality to it I you know I have reviewed it cracking watch and actually this is a good example of a bit of a bargain you can find on the used market although very risky indeed if you're not sure what to look for she likes the Excel version which is great because I get to wear it I don't typically like square watches but I have to say a Cartier tank is without a shadow of that one of the classes the watches to ever exist which is ironic considering its military-inspired roots you know being inspired by a tank design nonetheless but yeah it's actually pure class and yeah might as well have a little bit of fun while the wife is away right but guys before I get into this there is well one way to avoid all of this risk and that is to go with a reputable trusted expert in the first place that does all hunting around that knows what to look for has the expertise has the knowledge and does all of that for you now of course it's gonna cost a little bit more if you're brave enough to hunt on eBay at chrono 24 the forums you can find absolute bargains and save a lot of money but the risk is obviously greatly increased now if you want a list of reputable sellers that I personally buy from this is my own personal list and it's taking about ten years not 10 years my feels like 10 years taking about two years to to come together with this this list of sellers but those are my sources and I trust them completely so that removes all the 10 things to avoid however if you are feeling a little lucky if you do want to learn and go hunting for watches because it can be extremely fun extremely rewarding especially when you find that piece I've got a few examples to talk about today here which are all bargains why not bargains actually yeah pretty much all bargains that I found online but guys this has come at you know a lot of trial and error so hopefully these ten things to avoid will will help you in your quest number ten well it's missing information and missing information can be just as detrimental as misleading information especially avoid any listings that have sold as seen whenever I see that it kind of yeah it sends alarm bells basically think of a listing as a legal contract the more things that are listed about the watch the more empowered you are you can hold that seller to account and if the information is not there do not be afraid to ask questions so I'll put up some examples basic stuff is the watch running if so is it keeping time how accurate is the timepiece if it has complications do all the complications work how accurate are those where did you find the watch how long have you had the watch why are you selling it look at their feedback if you're in the forum I have a look at their posts kind of engage what kind of person they are also when they do respond to questions and emails look at how they they reply are they cause you are they rude usually you can tell a lot by how a person responds are they Curtis are they respectful if they don't bother replying if they're rude if they're if they kind of avoid questions or they don't seem to know what they're talking about avoid you know that's that's a big big you know alarm bells right if the pictures on the listings are not good enough don't be afraid to ask for more especially profile view have looked for pictures of the movement the caseback close-ups make sure everything's in focus and my favorite shot which which I always look for is just the dead-on straight shot so you can judge the polishing we'll get onto that in just a moment but that is a crucial one to request because people can actually hide over polishing by angling the weight of the photograph is taken ask what the damage is to the watch ask what is the wear and tear on the watch like for some reason the Japanese do this a lot I've seen them and they eBay listings they want they hold zoom in right like a macro shot put a red outline on the tiniest little mark I actually really appreciate that and to me I prefer that kind of honesty it just it just speaks volumes about the the attentive nature of the seller a really good question is to ask is the watch entirely original have any of the parts being replaced when was it last serviced do you have receipts what kind of documentation come with a watch manuals boxes that kind of stuff if the watch has luminescence ask does it retain any charge now we'll get on to Loom a little bit later on because that is quite a crucial thing and if they haven't stated dimensions please do ask the diameter excluding and including the the crown I've seen listings try and get rid of smaller watches by giving you the measurement with the crown so it will be like I know 36 millimeter the better and it turns out to actually be a 33 millimeter you know stuff like that I know it sounds obvious but guys request the way get as much information about the watch before entering into any kind of you know making an offer or that kind of thing number nine the postage scam so this is quite simple what they will do is they'll put a really low price to gain your interest and this specifically is done on eBay especially so they'll they'll put a low price to get your interest and your thing o Omega Seamaster $600 you're going there and the postage will be as normally hi they do this for two reasons one to get around or lower the the amounts they have to pay to eBay and secondly if it's no returns if there is an issue and you do have to open a case with eBay when you return it lessens 50 60 bucks right you will not get that back so imagine if they've done that several times after a while it's accumulates and it's you know it's it's a nifty little thing that people do whenever I see it avoid because that also speaks volumes about the seller number eight what I call the hidden costs things that aren't immediately apparent to the buyer when I was buying my little AP I almost bought a perpetual calendar what put me off was the thought that well you know it's an extremely complicated mechanical piece the servicing is gonna be ruddy fortune and to be honest as a dress watch it's not something I wear all the time very very seldom for formal attire is it worth forking out all that money you know every few years for servicing the more complicated to watch obviously the more it's gonna cost a service other hidden costs may be taxes import taxes specifically I found when I've ordered luxury watches in England from the United States I was hit with huge customs bill and vice versa when I've ordered luxury watches from the UK to the United States which is usually the other way around always investigate through a little bit of research and find out first because trust me if you're spending several thousand dollars it can run into the hundreds of dollars and it can end up being much more expensive than you originally thought so do bear that in mind number seven very simple and that is if you're buying on eBay the scam I I see it all the time and and people still fall for it which is I beyond me a seller will will you know you'll be making an offer or something like that going back and forth and then they'll say well listen if you buy it off eBay I don't have to pay the fees and I'll give you a better price it's the equivalent of imagine you're in the market you know I'm talking metaphorically I'm in a market and you're buying some luxury goods the the seller guys tell you what I'm meeting in the back alley bring the cash I'll sell it to you half price well what do you think is gonna happen you know you beyond the the buyer protection of eBay especially watch out on forums you know because there's no protection whatsoever eBay does have a bit of a stigma of being a hotbed of fakes and shady dealers and it is but at the same time you do get a protection that's what you're paying for and you can still get really excellent reputable dealers on there as well so if you are buying on a forum check out the sellers history and their engagement in the group however Facebook forearms are especially dangerous because they're not legally obliged to you know there's no protection for you so do bear that in mind number six the refurbished dial this is basically a more of enticing way of putting it but it's essentially a repainted dial I generally avoid them okay or actually they use restored dial as well now there's varying degrees of restoration I you know if you go with a really experienced craftsmen that knows what they're doing and it's your timepiece and you want it cleaned up a bit that's very different to somebody that is deliberately trying to repaint the dial make it look new in order to jack up the price a lot of the time it's very sloppy work telltale signs are the printing is the lettering too thick compared to images you find on eBay of the same watch the Loom is usually a telltale sign if it is tritium loom which got replaced by super-luminova that age is in a very particular way and you'll tell because at the bottom where it says Swiss or Swiss made it'll have little T's by it right little T indicating Tritiya moon now that patinas in a very particular way because of the chemical components in the luminescence tends to go to a very particular Brown now I have a where is it I have my little Judah from 1992 I think luminol has started getting introduced in the late 90s early 2000 guys do tell me when the precise date was I wonder which was the first watch to actually have super-luminova of to know that if you guys know do share down below this still actually looks very crisp and white so I was a little bit hesitant but this is one of the last generations of submariners with the tritium loom and you can look you can see the edges it's very crisp it's unmistakably all original it is gonna start to go Brown and I'm kind of enjoying and looking forward to that it even still retains a little bit of charge it's not very good but it still does if you're looking at and I've seen this with the meters especially where they've removed the dial and it's bright green doesn't make any sense because it's a sixties watch and it glows you know like you know a Seiko monster right that has obviously been removed now some people will just straight up say on their listening oh it's been removed if you're happy with that fine but bear in mind the collectors enthusiasts connoisseurs they will not touch it with a barge pole it will be less desirable when coming to resell it the dial really is the most valuable part of the watch it contributes so the general value more than any other component or any other elements of the watch look at the quality of the printing do the numbers and tracks on the dial look crude do they lack uniformity do they bleed out into the other parts of the dial if it's a chronograph especially look at the the scales you know does everything look even is anything crooked pay attention to the fonts the lettering especially you know when you see a book that's been left in the Sun or in a window or in like let's say a thrift store and it's it's a used book and it's been in the window for ever and ever it will fade dials do the same thing and this goes for bezels as well which I having said that I have seen people actually bleach their bezels to get that vintage II not a word vintage II look but yeah and dials can be faded and patina can be faked as well but it's a lot more difficult to do if there is damage on the dial let's say that I've seen parts of the scales kind of scratched look guys that's fine I'd prefer that than something has been repainted and so do connoisseurs be wary of patina that is uneven sometimes that indicates perhaps there was water damage to the watch somehow moisture got into that part of the dial and that can then indicate that perhaps there was water got into the movement so do bear that in my in mind watches patina in such vastly different ways I mean if you look at my little Amiga my little world war two Amiga it almost looks like blotched paper but it's happening all over the dial it's it's kind of uniformed what's the plural of patina is it patina patination but yeah it's it's all kind of aged together number five and that is the case dodgy cases and that ones to avoid more than any in my opinion are over polished cases recently I saw a hideously over polished GMT Pepsi and it kind of made me thankful of mine and it's funny because I was looking at mine just the other day and I was thinking my god there's so many scratches and dings and dents and all the rest of it but at least the beveling is there like the other Pepsi I looked at the beveled edges had completely gone and that was a telltale sign and you remember earlier when I when I told you about requesting a dead-on view because look at the lugs are they symmetrical once I bought a see master GMT I couldn't tell by the eBay pictures but when it arrived it was horrendously over polished what I think was one side had been polished more than the other side it's not like you can get super glue and stick the steel back on right once I saw that oh god I I couldn't keep it I'd send it back luckily it was a had a good return policy and they accepted it which is another thing look at their return policy that was a an excellent example because in doing so not only had the watch become a little bit one of the lugs thinner than the other lugs but it had also lost a brushed finish they had entirely done a high polish to kind of make it try and disguise the fact and I know what a what an amiga case looks like I love the transition and the edges it should be sharp even on this Pepsi here the edges are still rather shop it has been polished to some degree it's gonna be very very difficult to find a Rolex especially one this age and older that's not going to be polished you might just have to accept it but at least look for you know not not over polishing and the same goes for or even more so for precious metals obviously gold is a lot softer yeah god I've seen some horrific over polishing on some yellow gold Rolexes it just makes someone shudder I prefer to have a more banged up piece and you know with wear and tear than over polishing I really would another thing to avoid is chrome plated and gold plated watches now I'm not saying avoid entirely you can find some amazing chrome plated World War 2 watches and that's because stainless steel was obviously a commodity in wartime that was sought after so they especially with military watches to keep cost down they did a lot more chrome plating same goes for gold plating I typically avoid it because once it goes you can't get it back another example is that the Tag Heuer 1000 the wolf of wallstreet then the gold plated infamous watch the cap in the movie those are highly sought out I bought one for 600 bucks years ago sold it for almost double and the gold is coming off such is the demand so my rules are not absolute actually they're not rule is they're just pieces of advice but generally do avoid gold plating and chrome plated number four bad movement so if they haven't listed when the watch was serviced do find out because they could be selling it you know literally on the cusp of when it needs to be serviced if you're buying a Rolex for example you know a complete overhaul is gonna be $1000 plus right so imagine you get an absolute bargain but you open it up it's all gunk inside still running it still might even be able to run a chronometer certified level that that's how solid some rolex watches are I've seen that I seen dangerous that on the outside they looked exquisite on the inside they were absolutely you know as a horror story be very wary of and I've discussed this before chronographs in particular have a look back at my chronographs video I bought this little Britax for 200 it was less than $200 absolutely bargain beautiful beautiful piece however it needed the service and I'm gonna have to fork out four hundred plus dollars especially because some of the parts unknown juice have a look back at that video but yes do bear that in mind with vintage watches it might cost $200 might be an absolute bargain but in the long run it'll cost probably six hundred and total to get it back to fully working condition you want to get a shot of that movement if you don't know movements do your research compare it to online photos be very wary of watches with snap backs because snap backs have lesser water resistance there's more chance of moisture getting in there it could look very nice on the outside and inside it could be an absolute mess Moisture could have got in there especially if it's snap back so do get a shot of that movement compare the numbers on the movement make sure you ask if all the parts are original if it's been serviced have any the hearts been replaced house running etc etc etc number three the Franken watch now I talked about this briefly in my 10 Watchers to avoid but when it comes to buying vintage and used it can get a little bit more complicated Frank and watches can be quite sophisticated in the way they they are intended to deceive however to the unseasoned watch by the ones to avoid are without a doubt the entry-level to the swiss market so brands like horace Fortis and amiga for some reason those I see the most Franken watches of all the telltale signs are they've got repainted dials they have hands from one model that shouldn't be enough like I thought I seen these incredible Franken watches from India in particular that had these very ornate almost louis xiv style hands on a very modern watch it just didn't make any sense when they come to repainting the dials they're very bright i mean a sixties watch is not gonna have a bright fluorescent pink dial okay yeah some might have a like a salmon pink but it we faded okay there's no way it can be that bright it's too good to be true and the prices will reflect that as well with franklin watches god knows what society egg to think also be wary of world war ii watches for some reason that well i think it's because of their historicity and the and the kind of allure of wanting to own a world war ii watch they're all straight up just put markings like military markings on the actual dial and it's just you know has has no historical provenance to it whatsoever some of them are actually from the 30s and 40s but military markings have just been added to boost their value franken watchers can come in all shapes and all forms from converted pocket watches it may be cheap but you can't resell them because then you know you're breaking the law they have no value it's a big problem on eBay but once you know what to look for you can spot them a mile away Franken Watchers can get very crafting very subtle and sophisticated indeed I saw the other day somebody shared a picture a tutor ranger 1967 shooter Ranger beautiful thing it caught my eye because it was beautiful somebody then shared it actually on the Facebook but it had the snowflake hands and to my knowledge I mean I could be wrong but I've never seen a 1967 CUDA ranger with snowflake hands they have typically they have the arrow hands right so I had a beautiful patina in the hands and even patina'd the same color as the the numerals and the dial very very subtle and at first glance you don't even notice right and if you're into Tudor and you're just getting into 2d or think ah gorgeous and it did actually look gorgeous number two okay number two the second thing I would advise avoiding or being extremely worried about is certain countries and certain brands so you know it's obvious that Rolex Amiga brightening you know and we're joined by the NYPD I'm not sure if you can hear that I'll carry on certain brands obviously carry more risk it's far more riskier buying a Rolex I think because it's such a you know I mean do I have to explain it's such an aspirational brand it's the most fake to watch brand of all time buying a little vintage doctor from the sixties is I mean it's still risky but the odds are that you're gonna find a better deal and and and it's certain brands just have more risk that is the truth of the matter so it's your first time buying don't you know jump in with five grand on but yeah on ebay start small you know start with maybe a see master and the other thing is countries countries to avoid now guys in my 10 watches to avoid video I named a few countries and people like well what's wrong with India what's wrong with the Ukraine etc there's nothing wrong with those countries what I'm talking about is unfortunately there are trends this is a fact on ebay that a lot of the counterfeit Franken watches come from places like Vietnam Uruguay Argentina India Ukraine so on okay those have kind of hot beds of fake watches and Frank watches that unfortunately that is the truth there's nothing wrong with those countries be very worried about buying having said that Argentina has some amazing deals but if you're the first-time buyer be wary it also has some incredibly sophisticated face and number one okay number one this without a doubt is probably the biggest thing to avoid not a scam but in a way you're scamming yourself if you don't do this and that is research doing your homework educating yourself doing background checks on the sellers on the watch personally I love it as part of the thrill of the chase of the hunt it's a great way to learn that's why I keep buying watches again and again because it's an the best way to learn is experience right trial and error educating yourself exposing yourself to as many sources of information forums magazines books online videos like the urban gentry especially the evans issue but yes online videos actually a great one is your fellow enthusiasts engaging with the community if you're not sure about something post it on the you gwc on the Facebook group ask your fellow watching thews iasts we have hundreds and hundreds of experts in every field sharing the the the accumulated knowledge that we have as a community is incredibly powerful if you just go into it blind especially avoid impulse buying you know that that seems that I know you think oh it's a bargain it's a bargain wait a minute in it now if it's too good to be true like the old motto goes you know something's rotten in Denmark I think also a part of the research that is often kind of overlooked is the importance of forming a relationship with your local watchmaker pick their brains as much as you can you know there's so much to learn now okay if you don't have unfortunately it is a dying industry and a lot of places are shutting down and it's not like there are many young people becoming watchmakers now I for example started a really great relationship with saltzman's I hire them personally I've had them serviced three or four of my watches now I've consulted with Richards Shantanu I've got my good friend Richard he's an expert if you look at that chronograph video in particular and the knowledge I gained and the insight especially with his accumulation of working in the business with his watchmakers sourcing parts and you know was invaluable was invaluable I've learnt so much so it doesn't have to be you know one on one it can also be online you know don't be afraid to contact them but anyway guys that is my top ten please do share any nuggets of information experiences advice things to avoid when it comes to buying vintage used pre-owned watches in the comments below let's try and help out as many of you out there as we can thank you so much for watching please don't forget to like this video if you enjoyed and found it useful and as always guys I will catch you in the next one okay chat