Transcript for:
Nick Fuentes and Candace Owens Interview

Nick, welcome to the Candace Show. Great to be with you. You talk a lot of I do. You absolutely talk a lot about me included. So, I wanted to uh invite you on to the podcast cuz a lot of your videos have been going viral. Um obviously, it will not surprise you to learn that according to the media, you might be the most evil person in the world. They say that about me. Yes, that's my reputation. and definitely anti-Semitic, racist, um, misogynist. There have been real fears of people speaking about your gaper movement. So, I did something before this interview was I went back into my phone and wrote Nick Fuentes. I wanted to try to remember the first time that I actually heard your name. And it was in 2019, a text message that somebody had shared with me uh, that Ashley Sinclair had been kind of fired from Turning Point USA. And this person was speaking about Ashley Sinclair and had mentioned that she got in trouble a while back or whenever it happened because she took a photo with you and that you were this big anti-semite. And then later that year, I had a conversation about the gripers. It was something that I had never seen before who were showing up on college campuses and asking questions about conservatism to various speakers, whether it was Rob Smith, Dave Rubin, and asking, "Hey, if we're conservatives, why are we promoting gay people, right? You're the person that is the face of that movement." So, can you just tell me, I guess, a little bit about Nick Fuentes before the Gaper movement? Sure. Well, yeah, that was my big claim to fame. That was kind of when I came on the map in 2019. Uh but before that, I was at uh RSBN, Right Side Broadcasting Network. I was a freshman in college. I was 18 years old. I was at Boston University and I was a big proTrump guy, you know, and I was very into politics, extremely political. Uh but like a lot of people, I was pretty mainstream, you know. I was very pro-Israel libertarian, big Prageru uh viewer, Ben Shapiro fan, all that kind of stuff. But of course in 2016 everything changed. You know he had the rise of the alternative right. And so it's guys like Jordan Peterson and Stefan Malyu and Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor and of course Trump being the king of them all. So in 2016 everything changed. I became very uh racialist, very pro-white, very critical of Israel, very aware of the Jewish phenomenon that's happening in the country. And so I went to the college campus. I was freshman, 18, and I did a big debate with the student body president at the school. Um, and it was kind of weird how it came together. I was pretty vocal on Twitter, didn't have a big following, maybe 200 followers, but I was wearing a MAGA hat everywhere I went, cafeteria to class, down the street, and I became known on the campus as that guy wearing the MAGA hat. And I would go on Twitter and I talk about my experience. You know, people are picking on me, people are saying they're going to beat me up, people are threatening me, stuff like that. And I said I was defiant, you know, I was very um proTrump in spite of all that. And so I got a lot of flack from the liberals on the campus, the Democrats, and um one of these groups, Young Americas for Liberty, they came in and contacted me and said, "Would you want to set up a debate on the campus with one of your detractors, one of the people that's threatening you, trying to fight you?" And I said, "Yeah, I'd love to do that." You know, I was I had been a broadcaster in high school, so I said, "Yeah, let's uh let's set something up." And so they put out like an open casting call. They contacted a bunch of the people that had been talking trash about me and they said they'd like to set up this debate and they found the student body president. He was like a senior and he was like some Democrat socialist or something. And I didn't even know the guy but they set up this live event and like 300 students came to it. It was like a big deal. And actually someone you know uh Cassie Dylan who's now known as Cassie Akiva at that time she was a fellow at Daily Wire. She was like um I guess she was working there temporarily. They had taken her to Israel. She had been there a few times and she was studying at Mount Holly Oak in western Massachusetts and she was involved with some of the campus groups. So she went to the event and she live streamed it on Periscope at that time and I didn't even know her. I had heard about her. I had seen her on Twitter and when the debate finished she came up to me and she said, "Oh my gosh, I just streamed that. You had 30,000 people watching." She goes, "Ben Shapiro watched it. Milo Yiannopoulos watched it. She said, "And you've got a bunch of different job offers." And we do a little postgame interview. She's asking me questions. And the last question she asked me, which is like the big setup for my whole life, she said, "I just got back from Israel." She said, "Would you ever take a trip to Israel cuz I think you'd love it." And so on. And you know, I sort of knew what's happening with Israel, but not 100%. And I said, "Yeah." I said, "It sounds interesting, but I think I have everything I need right here in America." and she goes, "Oh, okay." She wraps up the interview and she gives me her card. We exchange information. I get involved with her. She was involved with RSBN. And um if you know that's right, Right Side Broadcasting Network. They did all the Trump rallies during the election. And when the election ended, they said they were going to start up a bunch of original programming. They had Mike Cernovich, Bill Mitchell, a bunch of these guys that were on Twitter. And she had a show was called Raise Right. And so she contacted Joe Seals, who's at RSBN, and she said, uh, you know, I saw this guy give the speech. He's really great. He debated this guy on campus. We should give this guy a show. And, uh, so I got in touch with them. We got to talking. This was around the end of 2016, beginning of 2017. They said, uh, you know, what do you want to call your show? I said, well, let's call it the Nicholas Jentus show. They said, that's too long. Nobody knows you. Nobody knows who you are. You know, we don't want that. I said, okay. They said, you need a different name. I said, "All right." So, I watched the Trump inauguration, which was January 17, and he said in the speech, he said, "A new vision will govern our land. It's going to be only America first." And I said, "I like the sound of that." I said, "We'll call it America first." So, question, how old are you exactly at this time? I was 18. 18. Okay. So, all of this sort of happened, 17, 18 years old or this all happened very quickly at the age of 18, right? Yeah. And and it all happened rapidly, you know, and and this was a time when I was still even figuring out what I'm about, you know, because I'm a teenager. And I've been extremely political since I was like 12 years old. I read Thomas Soul, Milton Friedman, all that stuff, all the libertarian, conservative stuff, even a lot of the neocon stuff. Honestly, I was kind of all over the place. And I started to get redpilled, you know, I started to go on 4chan, I started to go on farright Twitter. I started to get into some of these more interesting ideas and I wasn't sold yet. That's sort of the thing is I was sort of in this questioning phase uh not not sort of innuendo but questioning you know my political ideology like you know I I had these libertarian priors and I had this kind of pro-Israel bent because that's just what there was on the internet at that time. All of the online content it was PJ Media which was Shapiro and uh Bill Whittle and Andrew Claven. it was Prageru, Breitbart, that's what there was. But then in 2016, you had this alt-right movement and suddenly you had all these other people that were in the conversation. Like I said, these guys like Jared Taylor and Sam Francis and and a whole other crew. And so I really was open-minded and questioning what I really believe. And so that's really when I came into conflict with this establishment, you know, something that I sort of began to figure it out and started to pay the price for this line of inquiry. Uh, and so that first conversation I had with Cassie Dylan, it prefigured kind of like my entire adult life until this point. And at that time in the early months of the Trump admin, I was doing some digging on the Israel situation. And there were some notable um news stories with Obama and then with Trump that made me ask some questions. You know, in December of 2016 during the lame duck, Obama declined to veto in the Security Council a resolution condemning the settlements in the West Bank. And everybody called him a Jew hater for doing that. They said he was an anti-semite. And I said, 'Well, wait a second. And I was a big conservative. I didn't like Obama, but I said, 'W wait a second. I said, 'It is the official policy of the United States since 1967 that we're against the civilian settlements. Every president, Republican and Democrat, I said, and all Obama did, he didn't even vote no. He didn't he didn't veto it. He didn't vote in favor. They voted present and they allowed the resolution to pass. I said, 'Th that's consistent with our government's policy, the American policy. Obviously, Israel and America don't have the same policy on everything. I said, 'But now you have Fox News and Mark Levvin and all the usual suspects are saying he's an anti-semite and a Jew hater because he merely advanced our own position. I said, isn't that a bit of a double standard? Isn't that hypocritical? I said, and you know what it sounds like? It sounds like the left. You disagree with the left on race and they say you're a racist. you disagree with the left on Islam, you're an Islamophobe and all the rest of it. And so that was something that really set off an alarm bell. I said, "Something's not right here." And I wrote a big article about it on my blog. Couple months later, guess who comes to town for Trump's first visit from a foreign leader. It's BB Netanyahu. That was the first foreign leader that he hosted at the White House. And Netanyahu goes out there. They do a joint press conference. and Trump turns to him and says, "I need you to take it easy on those civilian settlements in the West Bank because it's a big liability for us." Netanyahu goes home and authorizes the largest expansion of the settlements in Israel's history. Wait, that's super interesting. Is that on camera? Yes. And and secondly, on the settlement issue, are you both on the same page? As far as settlements, I'd like to see you hold back on settlements for a little bit. Uh we'll uh work something out, but I would like to see a deal be made. I think a deal will be made. BB and I have known each other a long time, a smart man, great negotiator, and I think we're going to make a deal. It might be a bigger and better deal than people in this room even understand. That's a possibility. So, let's see what we do. Let's try it. Doesn't sound too optimistic, but that's says good negotiator. That's the art of the deal. That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. And it's pretty obscure because, you know, if you're not watching this stuff day by day, it kind of slips through the cracks. But that was her first foreign visit. I remember it very distinctly. And so I said to Cassie Dylan, "So you're just more dialed into it at this time because I was paying attention to politics." Definitely obviously because I was kind of getting kicked over the BLM stuff, but I would have never tuned into that because there we weren't really confronted with the alliance as much in 2016. But you're kind of dialed in and you notice this moment and BB just kind of says f you to Trump and proliferates it further. Right. Exactly. And I was paying attention cuz I was really big into foreign affairs. I was a big model UN kid in high school. That was like my thing. So I was really focused on all that. And I, you know, I just pay attention. I ask questions. I I noticed the patterns, so to speak. And so I at that point I became friends with all the DailyWire people. There was Cassie Dylan, this writer named Elliott Hamilton, a writer named Aaron Bandler. Uh those guys were Jewish and they I think they had visited Israel a lot. They were involved in Jewish groups. I thought they were my friends, you know, and they were talking about uh they were setting me up with a writing gig at Daily Wire. They basically did like a preliminary interview. They wanted me to work over there and I did a lot of collaborations with them. I gave them interviews for articles because I was like a campus team that was proTrump and all that. It was it was big fodder at that time for the culture war stuff. And then I started asking them I said why does the United States give Israel $3.8 billion per year because at that point the newou had just passed a new memor memorandum of understanding that's the foreign aid for Israel and they actually increased it uh and they expanded it for 10 years. So I said why are they the number one recipient of foreign aid? I said you know they're not a poor country um and I don't even really know what the strategic value is there. I said, "So why since 1978, uninterrupted have they been number one and number two and number three, it's the same story. It's Egypt and Jordan, they're the second and third biggest recipients and we basically pay them because they normalized relations with Israel. It's like a bribe." I said, "So, you know, what do you make of this whole arrangement?" I said, "Is it because they are our closest ally and I'm missing something?" I said, 'Or are we being lobbyed and there's this deep contradiction and double standard and it's obviously being enforced by foreign influence and money. And I remember they hated the line of questioning and who when you say they, you're referring to this friend group. Yes. This Daily Wire friend group. They were all writers there and you could still find their articles online and they, you know, at first it was sort of playful. They said, "Oh, haha, very good." They almost thought I was joking, you and they said, "Oh, it's very funny, you know, but you really shouldn't ask that." They would say, they'd say, "You know, there there's a good answer for all those questions." They'd say, "But the way you're asking it is anti-Semitic," they said. And uh you know, we're happy to talk with you oneon-one in person, like like they're going to teach me how to ask the question. They said, "Because the way you're saying it, it's just it sounds hateful and it's wrong." And I said, "I'm asking a question. It's free marketplace of ideas," I thought. So, I kept pushing and pushing and I I was tugging on a lot of these different threads. You know, I was also asking about World War II and about some of the narratives there. And I was asking about 9/11 and the Iraq war. And where are you asking this? Are you in a group chat? Are you just face to face like with your friends eating a burger? Like where when you say I keep asking these questions, what's the setup for that? We're texting in group chats and and we're even doing it one-on-one. You know, one of the venues, we had a big Christmas party out in western Massachusetts and Cassie Dylan invites me back to her apartment with a couple of friends and everyone's drinking wine. I don't drink, so I wasn't drinking, but we're playing apples to apples and and it's a party atmosphere. You know, we're friends, we're having fun, we're political, we're talking about it, and and this is the venue. And it just got increasingly cold over time. And it eventually it turned into stop. like you need to stop asking or else. And eventually uh you know I kept pushing on a lot of these different things and Cassie hits me up on Twitter and she texts me this huge block uh text paragraph and she says you know we're not in the same movement anymore. She goes I don't really recognize what you're about and your views. She says I'm pro-Israel. She goes and the things you're asking the things you're saying about Ben Shapiro and other people. She goes you know I'm just not a part of that movement. and she said, "So, we can't be friends anymore." So, she stops talking to me, cuts me off completely. All the other people block me. Elliot, Aaron, uh there were some other people involved. They all blocked me on Twitter. Complete ghosting. And I I I'm shocked. I'm floored. You know, this is my first encounter with this kind of push back. You know, because you go into it as an 18-year-old in college and you get involved in these groups. I was involved in the Trump campaign, Y, all these groups. and you think this is the free marketplace. We're here to debate ideas. It's, you know, it's a free speech atmosphere. And I'm also thinking we're all proTrump. And that's another big dimension of this is me. Trump was a huge influence on me. He made me a nationalist when I was a conservative. And America first was that operative phrase. You know, I wasn't any longer a small government, you know, constitutional individualist. I said, I'm America first. I'm about America. And and so there's this deep contradiction on the Trump strain in particular and what they're pushing. And I I said it really shouldn't be there. If we're America first on China, Mexico, Russia, everybody else, NATO, why aren't we America first on Israel? So this was deeply disconcerting and weird and disturbing to me. And I I was honestly just taken aback. I was like, why why are my friends now turning their back on me because of a disagreement? Well, fast forward. I'm doing my show on RSBN. This is in my second semester, so this is winter and spring 2017. And I'm doing the show. The show's going okay. I'm not getting great viewership. Nobody was. And I get a call from my boss, Joe Seals, who runs RSBN. And he goes, "You know, you got to keep this between us." He says, "But did something happen between you and Cassie?" Cuz she's still doing her show, too. I said, "Yeah, you know, we had this falling out, blah, blah, blah." He goes, "She's been calling me every day for the past two weeks." He goes, "And she's telling me,"Well, you know, Nick said this on his show. Isn't that so racist? Nick said this on his show. Isn't that so hateful? That's not conservative." He says, "And she's been trying to get you fired, calling me literally every day for two weeks." I said, "Wow." I said, "I can't say I'm surprised." I said, "She gave me this very cold, standoffish thing. You know, she blocked me, all the rest." He goes, "Not only that, he's a pastor." He says, "She's talking to me about converting to Judaism." Which of course she now has. You know, fast forward all this time later, about a year ago, she marries some Israeli guy and she converts to Judaism. But he goes, "You know, I'm a Christian. I'm he's an evangelical pastor." He says, "And I'm trying to talk her in off the ledge. I don't know what's gone into her. All this." And so this was how my college career began. That's sort of what created me. And and then for the next three, four, five months, my life turned upside down where it was these people like Cassie, uh this guy Cabbat Phillips. He's I think he was a campus reform. I think he might be a Daily Wire now. His father, Tim Phillips, ran this big nonprofit, Americans for Prosperity. He's friends with Morton Black or Morton Blackwell from Leadership Institute. This guy was coming at me. He was on me all the time on Twitter. And these people are just pushing this line. Nick Fuentes is alt-right. He's a white nationalist. He's a Jew hater. He's an anti-semite. And you know, me at that time as an 18-year-old guy, I'm thinking I'm I'm just asking questions. You know, I'm just doing what we're supposed to do. It's free speech. I'm America first, the rest of it. And then the first big hit piece was actually written about me by Media Matters. Come to find out, Media Matters sourced the material from Cassie Dylan. She sent one of my clips and I'll admit, you know, it wasn't uh the finest clip. I I stand by it, but it was um you know, the way that I said it was sort of unfortunate, but she took a clip from my show, she sent it to Media Matters, and they did this big hit piece about me. And then I had the left breathing down my neck, right-wing watch, um Media Matters, all the rest of them. And and this was kind of like the launch of my career. They were trying to throttle me in the crib. So, just how do you how do you know that Cassie sent the clip to Media Matters? This was told to me by uh Joe Seals. Okay. Okay, got it. So, she was sending around clips from your show, right? And and that's their move. That's what they do, you know, as you know. Um and and the show wasn't even big. I had like a 100 live viewers. I would get a thousand views per episode, but they were on top of this. Uh, and even Ben Shapiro, you know, he quote tweeted one of my tweets and said, um, you know, because I said something to the effect of, "If you're a Mexico first, live in Mexico. If you're China first, live in China. You're Israel first, live in Israel." And he quote tweets me on Christmas Eve and says, "Well, that's the shest sign you're an anti-semite is to accuse a Jew of dual loyalty." And I'm sitting there like, "It's true. You know, you you do have dual loyalty. You're going to sit there and say you don't." Um, so thi this was like the it's maddening, you know, it's literally will drive you crazy because by definition it's gaslighting because you see it I if you're a logical person it's obvious and you know this is something that maybe is helpful to explain my mindset. I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong. I'm pushing on all these narratives, the foreign aid, the Iraq war, all of it. And I'm waiting for someone to tell me, here's all the evidence, the the obvious evidence that it isn't all just a big thing. Mhm. It's not just a big conspiracy. And I'm I'm asking in good faith, where is that evidence, Cassie, my friend, and all the rest of them? And instead of getting an answer, I'm getting blocked. I'm getting tattled on. I'm getting clipped out of context. They're selling me out to the left. I'm getting called names. And um you know from the very start this made me extremely cynical and resentful and furious about the whole thing. And I said I'm I'm like at war now with the whole conservative establishment and the same opportunities for advancement that other people are getting. You know they get their spot on Fox News or they get to run a Turning Point chapter. You know you name it. I'm now being closed off because there's this smear campaign now going on behind the scenes of powerful connected people at Daily Wire, a whisper campaign telling everybody this guy's an anti-semite. And this went on really for many years goes on until this day. But that was sort of my origin story. That's how I got started. Okay. So you were 18 years old when that happened. How old are you now? I'm 26. Okay. So that was a long time ago. Yes. Um, and since then, would you say that going through that period of being rejected when you were literally just asking questions from people who were your friends and then kind of sold down the river, did that then make you go, "Okay, no, actually, I do hate Jews because of what you're doing to me. I'm now responding and my response is, I hate you all." No, I I never said I hated all Jews. And I I've always had Jewish friends. You know, Laura Loomer actually used to be a friend of mine back in um 2018. We did a show together in June 2018. I had a Jewish assistant at one point in uh 2019 after the Groper War. Um I'm a Catholic. I've always been a Catholic. I'm a cradle Catholic. So I I've never hated anybody. You know, I I do have some provocative statements and some controversial views, but I never said they're attacking me now. I hate them all. I I never took it that far. But what it did do is it demonstrated that, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire. Mhm. Clearly, if you're pushing on something and you get that hard of a push back, I'm thinking, I'm not a big deal. I'm an 18-year-old kid. I don't have a big show. What do people care what I have to say? If I'm pushing on this and I'm getting forceful response from these institutions, campus reform, Daily Wire, the rest of it, I'm thinking something must be up. So what I did is I I just kept pursuing that line of inquiry and saying, "Well, you know, if this is what they don't want us to talk about, this is what we should be talking about. Obviously, there's something they're hiding there." And this led what I would describe it as is like an 8-year inquiry. You know, I've been digging into this subject for 8 years. And it's sort of a difficult subject because since it is so taboo and since it is so censored, there's like this layered deception where the first layer is they make it so that you don't even want to think about it. No one wants to be thinking about the Jews, you know, or Israel. Uh and certainly nobody wants to be on the wrong side of that. No one wants to be called an anti-semite or a Nazi or a Hitler. That's sort of layer one. But layer two, because there's so much censorship, you don't even know where to get the information. If somebody wants to know more about this topic, try googling it. All the search results are curated. If you go on Wikipedia, the sources are curated. So, where do you go next? Well, you have to go to the cooks and the cranks and people that have been cancelled. Some of them have been cancelled because there are hateful people in this world that do hate Jews. There are people out there that are schizophrenic, but they're lumped in, censored and called names and banished from society just like the real scholars, just like people like Ron Oun, just like people like Michael Collins Piper, you know, people that have investigated this and are intelligent, logical people. And so once you sort of descend into the second layer, you know, the second ring of hell of being an anti-semite, then you have to parse out the information and discern what's real, what's fake, you know, is it a religious thing, is it a racial thing, is it an Israel thing, a nation state thing? And and then there's subtleties even beyond that. you know, things we've been getting into, I've been getting into on my show for the past few years, the deception is so much more convoluted and nuanced and subtle and ubiquitous than even people think. You know, a lot of people think, and you know, not to kind of leap right into the topic, but people have a vague notion, Israel has too much influence over our government. That's really just the tip of the iceberg because then you get into some of these people that have coalesed around Trump in the past couple of years after October 7th and it's like there's an obvious reason why there's elements in the right there's almost this form of camouflage they'll do and one day they're limited government another day they're white nationalists you know guys like Steven Miller who will present as very racialist and very uh nationalistic very conservative but yet still extremely loyal to Israel. And you start to say it's not just that Israel influences the government. It's not just there's some vague thing going on. There is this pervasive penetration of our society by a fifth column and and it's so sophisticated and multi-dimensional and spans many disciplines. It's such a huge topic that you you almost have to be a little bit insane to tackle it and to get to the bottom of it, which is sort of me going through the looking glass over the past eight years. So, all right. So, I want to I want to tell you where I agree with you and where I don't agree with you. But first, I just want to ask you going back to your high school years because obviously you were very dialed in. You cared about politics. I think you mentioned that you were involved with the UN. What did you say when you were in high school? Model UN. Model UN. What's that? What organization is that? It's like um it's like a debate club. Okay. But you simulate the United Nations. So politics, politics was a passion for you. Yes. Okay. Um you mentioned that you're Catholic. Yes. Raised cradle Catholic. You said mom and dad in the home. Yes. Okay. So I think on your show somebody told me that you mentioned your mom a lot. Were they together married? Yes. Okay. So you your parents are still married. Yes. So you come from a pretty good home. It sounds like obviously you still have a good relationship with your parents. Um and you went to Boston University. Mhm. Everything's going great for you. You kind of should be, like you said, maybe offered a contributorship on Fox News and your whole life kind of gets derailed. Right. Where I'm going to push back on you is to say that you didn't have this anger where you applied it to everyone because one of the and I don't have this clip, but I know that recently, and this was after I was fired from the Daily Wire, you kind of went on the attack about me speaking to Dave Smith, right? And saying, "Actually, I think we do have that clip, Skyler. I think we do have that clip of the me speaking to Dave Smith. Do you want to run that clip? She has nothing to do with me. She wants nothing to do with me. Doesn't do anything with me. No invitation. Won't bring me on the space. Won't bring me on the show. No acknowledgement. Nothing. But she is going to do a show with Dave Smith. Jew Aiden Ross, you know, and I like Aiden Ross. I've said that before. I like Aiden Ross, but it's like you get cancelled and attacked by Jews and then you go and give it away to all the Jews. Really? And finally Aiden asks her, "So, what are your thoughts on Nick Fuentes?" And she gives this load of PC response. She goes, "Well, you know, when he was a kid, he got attacked by them, and I understand why he would be angry and why he would be mad about that, but he needs to grow up and figure out what he wants to do." Oh, really? Oh, really? Buff, Candace. Oh, he needs to figure out what he wants to do. I think you need to figure that out. talk about accusing other people of that which you are guilty. I think he needs to figure out what he wants to do. I think you need to figure out what you want to do cuz you're full of and everyone knows it. You clearly have no idea what you're doing. No idea what I am doing. True. Uh what do you mean true? She didn't invite me on the show. But what what does that just Let's first go back to the first layer of what you're talking about. She had She's speaking of Dave Smith. Yeah. What does that have to do with anything? You call out the fact that I spoke to Dave Smith and I spoke to Aiden Ross. I didn't speak to them because they were Jewish. I also talked to Piers Morgan. All of these shows following me being fired. So, you're just looking at the fact that these two I didn't even know Aiden Ross was Jewish. I just had a PR agent say do this. I didn't I swear I didn't know he's visibly Jewish. But just so we're very clear, I genuinely had no idea. Your PR person comes. Here are the shows. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Dave Smith, we had a amazing conversation when I was on the Daily Wire. And so your purview here is, okay, well, they're Jewish and she's doing their shows while not saying to your audience, she's doing a bunch of other shows, too. How is that not you just kind of honing in before we get to the why you think I'm full of and don't know what I'm doing? Well, here's the beef, okay? And it's pretty simple. Dave Smith, in my opinion, and I like Dave because I've done a show with Dave, too, and I think he's a good guy. I respect him. I think he's super intelligent. And, you know, he gave me a chance when a lot of people wouldn't. He had me on his show and he defended me cuz he got attacked a lot from the libertarian. That's why you suck because you get somebody who comes out and defends you and has you on the show when you're being cancelled and then you throw him under the bus for because like I don't even know what your beef is. It's like why not just have a a be totally like, "Oh yeah, that was cool. We had a conversation. I disagree with him on some points." Well, here's why. because I don't think that I should be grateful for being given a chance. It's not being grateful. It's just being a decent enough human being. Forget gratefulness. You don't owe anybody anything. But the point is is you kind of lament the fact that you've been cancelled. You lament the fact that nobody will have your platform. In the very same breath, talk about being a hypocrite. You're going after Dave Smith for what? Like why is she doing Dave Smith? Jew. Well, I'll tell you. Can I explain why? I'm telling you why. So my feeling on Dave Smith and although I like him is that look he is Jewish. He's also a libertarian which means that you know when he talks about for example the situation in Iran or Israel he's an anti-war guy. He says you know Trump is a war criminal who needs to be impeached. I don't believe in any of that. I don't care that Trump violated international law. I care that he's influenced by a foreign government. He said on another show he said Israel is a satellite of the US. We're the Empire and they're our satellite. They're like our aircraft carrier in the Middle East, which is something Joe Biden said who's an Apac man. I think that Dave Smith is somebody who because he's a paleo libertarian like Murray Rothbard, like Ron Paul, like a lot of these guys, he is someone who because he's anti-war is sort of forced to confront the Israel lobby because if you're anti-war ideologically, you have to talk about who's driving it, which is the Israel lobby. But he's not somebody he's not a religious Christian. He's religious Jew or agnostic or atheist. He's not uh really a right-wing guy. He's a libertarian. He's a Jew. He's not a religious Jew. He says that he's proud of being Jewish. He's proud of his ethnicity. He's proud of Jew Judaism. Should he not be proud that he's like, you know, like he's just born this way. Well, here here's the point, though, is so he's not he's not really 100% aligned with my view. Now, here's why that matters. I think that it doesn't. No, it does. It doesn't. It doesn't. I'll tell you why. It doesn't. You can't say I want to create people in the image of myself. No. I And I'm No, but I'm completely ridiculous. I'm criticizing people that that I disagree with. And I to put it very succinctly, I think that this conversation about Israel has blown up. It's gotten out of their control. Everyone's getting redpilled. They want to control the conversation. And I think that Dave Smith is somebody that because he's Jewish, because he's libertarian, they have selected him as a convenient spokesperson for it because he's not really he doesn't really have a problem with Jews and their Jewishness. He doesn't really talk about the whole fifth column aspect of it. He talks about a very narrow aspect of it, which is there's this Israel lobby and they're sort of influential and they're driving us to war. That's one small selection. So you think, just to clarify, you think he's like a psychological operation. Uh yeah. Yeah. Effectively, yes. And I don't think he's he's doing that knowingly, but I think that they're they're creating the bounds of the debate by having him be the spokesperson because who is choosing him as a spokes? I mean, oh, Joe. I would not disagree with that more. I I I just want to say that I just I patently disagree with you on this one. This is this is crazy. I think that he has moved the ball forward so much for first and foremost a lot of American Jews to have the courage to even question Israel because in the same way that we were kind of brought up in the classroom with the I guess you want to call it emotional engineering around the Holocaust, learning about the Holocaust as like the biggest most evil event that ever happened. Uh imagine if you're Jewish and you learn about that. It's the same way that black Americans in the classrooms learn about learn about slavery. So, I understood the trigger emotional response that black Americans had during BLM because there was so much conditioning that happened in the classroom that makes them think that when someone says white supremacy is back, you have to riot. And and I I will extend that same understanding. I disagree with it, but I understand that when October 7th happens, it's almost like a childhood trauma for these people. You learn this your whole existing it's existential crisis for you that something happened in Israel. And then you add in the fact that the ADL is sponsoring these trips to kind of make sure that they stay into this you this is who you are and if somebody questions this like we could end up in the Holocaust again you have to have some sort of an understanding you know an understanding even if it's they're wrong you have to give them a little bit of time a little bit of grace here and so for him to be doing what he's doing and to be enduring a lot of the same stuff that I'm enduring like he is on lists he is um being attacked by every single pe all people that are attacking me are certainly attacking Dave Smith. And your excuse is that he just is born Ashkanazi. No, that's not my excuse. My my problem is he's married to a Catholic, by the way. So that even that's the part that I am even more confused about because you said like he's a religious Jew. No, he's not. He's married to a Catholic. What I mean what I mean by that is my my criticism of Jews comes from a religious place. As a Catholic, we recognize that the Pharisees put Jesus on the cross and and the Talmudic Jews are the descendants of the Pharisees. And we also recognize he is not a Talmudist. So, I just that's what I want to say. He's not any of those things. He's married to a Catholic. He's just born Ashkenazi. When I hear you say Dave Smith, Jew, okay, it I think it conflicts with your point about how even white people like you're just kind of trained that you should just like there's something wrong with you for being born white. No one should feel guilty about how they're born. Look, it's You know what I mean? To sum it up succinctly, it's basically it's tokenism is what it is. It's a form of saying, you know, we're criticizing the Jews in Israel. How do we soften and dampen the blow? Because we're going to get called anti-semites. If we bring on a guy criticizing Israel, I know we'll bring on a Jewish person. Because then we get to say, I'm not an anti-semite. Here's a Jewish person saying this. And here's here's the reason. That's not why I had Dave Smith on. Actually, I had him on my podcast before I even left the Daily Wire. We had a three-hour conversation about talking about war. And truly, cuz I think it's important for you to hear because I think sometimes you internet too hard. The the way the way that Dave Smith came onto our podcast on on Daily Wire, he wasn't even on my radar. Skyler, who you just met, the producer, was a massive Dave Smith fan for years. Um, and just kind of like what the libertarian debate was that was being had. He said, "You got to check out this guy Dave Smith." I was like, "Cool, book him. Let's get him on the show." And we had it was my favorite podcast that I did, the Daily Wire. So, I just liked him. That's it. There was no incentive of like, well, let me get this guy on again. I was like, can we create the magic of what we spoke about about war? Cuz I'm kind of falling, I guess, down the rabbit hole and learning a lot. And he had a lot of information I didn't know. Yeah. Um, and that was it. So, there was no there was nothing behind it. So, when I hear you say it, I'm like, "Okay, are you interneting too hard?" You know what I mean? A little bit. Do you think that you can kind of believe your own ideas? And look, we're all guilty of that. No. And and look, I mean, I'm I'm going to stand by my point here, which is that me and Dave Smith are not ideologically on the same page and will never be because I am a Catholic and he is Jewish because because he is Jewish, he still has affinity with Jewish people. And so my endgame is to say, look, Thomas Aquinus said that Jewish people should be basically insurfed to the Catholic Church. I don't believe that. But the idea that we have Jewish people in America that are billionaires that are running all the major media conglomerates that are influencing the government and they take advantage of the dual citizenship, it it literally cannot be allowed like by by definition systematically or systemically this creates problems. And so when I go on my show, I'm saying we can't have Jewish people in government. Like we can't have them having billions of dollars. This is a problem. It's like a national security problem because they are a fifth column and and as evidenced by recent developments, they're not loyal to America. Now, I agree with you and that's why I want to add this. I I agree with you on the point that there is this operating fifth column of Zionism. No, no, but I want to be clear and I'll tell you this is this is where we disagree. All right. Because I think it's ridiculous to say to someone who's literally just born, he's like, I'm Ashkenazi. That's that that is just his DNA. who is married to a Catholic, so you cannot call him a religious Jew. He is not a Zionist. He hasn't even been to Israel. So, how do you just condemn him? And then also, how is that not toxic to what you're trying to do? So, if you're saying that your entire platform is I want to awaken people to this fifth column. Well, if I'm a Jewish person, okay, and I'm being raised and I okay, maybe I worried about Israel because I kind of grew up and was told that I have to care about this because of the Holoca. And I see this guy who's just going Jew, guilty. You're a Jew. Doesn't matter. DNA. Yeah. Like you're 23 and me up there. Jew guilty. Okay. And you you think that your your ideas are going to grow with that perspective? Well, they are. So that's happening. But but is that because of thanks to you or thanks to Dave? I think it's thanks to me. But if you look, if you're asking me, I will answer. If you're lecturing me, I'll take I genuinely want I want I'm asking you the question sincerely. You think it's growing because of you and not because of people like Dave who are going, "Okay, like yeah, you can also think like this. It's okay to have this perspective." Like, you think it's because they're watching your show and they're going, "He's got it right." Let me give you a direct answer about the the first part about Dave Smith just because he's born Jewish. What did he say when he went on Joe Rogan and he debated um what's the guy's name? He debated the British guy, forget Douglas Murray. Douglas Murray when he debated Douglas Murray. Douglas Murray said, and you hear this, this is the woke right phenomenon which Dave has criticized, but Douglas said there is this dark element that is growing on the right. They're Holocaust deniers. They hate Jews. They would if they slip on a banana peel, they blame a Jew and all the rest of it. Dave Smith said, "I agree with you. Those people are a problem. I'm and I'm against Holocaust denial and all this sort of stuff." Joe Rogan went on the attack against Jake Shields, who's a friend of mine and a fighter and a boxer. And you see this over and over and over again with people like Dave Smith and even someone like Daryl Cooper who's not Jewish. And you know, I talked to Daryl recently and we kind of made amends. But Daryl Cooper put out an article on a Substack saying the same thing. He said, "I started talking about the Jews. I opened up this can of worms. Now that's all people want to hear about." He said, "So, I'm done talking about it because, you know, there's people that can't handle it and they're taking it too far." And when I hear that from Daryl Cooper, when I hear that from Dave Smith, when they say Israel's our satellite, our aircraft carrier, I say something's not right here. There there's clearly a subtle difference here. And that has a lot to do with, you know, maybe Daryl Cooper not being a complete radical. And I think that has a lot to do with Dave Smith being Jewish because he says that his his ancestors died in the Holocaust. Now, I don't think that he'll ever be able to say in the way that I can um you know that maybe the Holocaust wasn't legitimate or you know maybe there's more to the story on World War II cuz it's his grandparents. Okay. But he says, "My ancestors went up the the smoke stacks at Awitz." And someone like me, I say, "I don't care about Awitz. I don't care about the Holocaust. I'm done hearing about it. I have no affinity with that. Right. But you also mentioned Daryl Cooper and you also mentioned Joe Rogan. These two people are not Jewish. Right. Right. So are are you saying that they're all condemned? Like why is it matter? If Dave Smith, maybe he believes that, maybe he's wrong, maybe he believes it. Who knows? If Joe Rogan says that, maybe he's wrong. Maybe he believes it. Let's say we don't know. Daryl Cooper, what is the difference between these three individuals? Like why why is one represent a problem for you versus like your idea? Going back to what you said, right? M let's tackle the idea. Let's actually debate the idea. So, do you not see how you run into conflict with yourself? You're like, well, here's my story. I just want to debate the idea. And then when it comes to Dave Smith, rather than saying, I disagree with what you just said about whatever topic, saying that there is this strand, let's actually have the debate because the better idea will win. That's how my brain works. Yeah. Here's why. Because this is another form of gatekeeping. When Joe Rogan says, "Okay, you're cool. Dave Smith is cool, but Jake Shields, he's a Holocaust denier. That's not cool. That's dark and evil and real anti-semitism. Hear that all the time. They say, "Are you like a Dave Smith guy or are you a real anti-semite?" Because you know what they say? If you're a real anti-semite, you're out of the club. You don't get invited on the show. You know, Piers Morgan won't have me on the show. He banned me. Tim P banned me. Joe Rogan banned me. And it's like, wait a second. So, you know, clearly some people are able to go on these shows and express some form of the view, which is again like what you're saying, there's this Israel lobby. But if you go out and say, you know what, six million, I'm not buying it. You know, I think this is a political narrative. I think it's atrocity propaganda serving a fifth column. Suddenly they say, well, that's real anti-semitism. We want nothing to do with that. You know, you remain outside. And so, and look, it's it's not to me about, you know, people then say, "Oh, well, you're you're envious." Look, I love doing my show. I love doing what I do. I want the real truth to prevail. And and there's is this concept of a limited hangout. This is a CIA tool and and I'm sure you've heard of it, but for your audience that maybe hasn't, when they believe that disclosure is inevitable, a secret, a taboo, hidden narrative that they don't want to get out, when it's inevitable that it is going to go out, what they will do is they will leak out some of the truth. The public is so enamored with the new information, they go no further and they actually don't get to the critical details. And I think that, you know, we're we're basically at that point with the Israel lobby and the Jewish topic. Clearly something is going on. So you're just distrusting. And that's fine to say that you're distrusting. No. Well, I amust Yeah. Yeah. I mean I and I think it's fine to and you are correct by the way that there are these operations where they do these limited hangouts and I'm very aware of that. That is true. And sometimes I have that in my mind when I'm watching something. I'm like this feels like a limited hangout. Like they're not really kind of uh getting to the nucleus of the conversation. But I just really disagree with you about like just Dave is just guilty and condemned simply because he's born after Nazi because he's Jewish. Went well well in the clip I think you just went like Dave Jew and it's like what does it matter Dave Ro did not do. I'm sick of the token. Okay. And and I'll tell you another reason why I disagree with that and we can move on from Dave Smith because I like him and I'm whoever I like I like. I don't really care uh to you know adapt my opinions on the basis of yours. But I also just in general feel like I was that person for BLM and I'm genuine. I was totally genuine and that was kind of my wakeup call. BLM I didn't really accept the victim narrative. Maybe a little bit like you naive walked into it like oh I'm just not going to support this thing and I don't really want to be a Democrat. And then I had I dealt with the full weight of an attempted cancellation by the left um at first and kind of like she's you know the token for the right and people saying well they're only platforming her because she's a black person that agrees. And to some degree maybe that's true. Like obviously like there is an element of tokenism but I'm saying what I believe you know I was saying what I believe and I don't doubt his sincerity. I don't doubt his sincerity at all. So why problematize it? That's what I'm trying to get to. So it's then he's out there having to fight amongst these pro-Israel people. He's fighting the same Zionists that we are on the topic of Israel. And on top of that, he's got to deal with Nick Fuentes talking trash about him because he's like, "Well, this is just who cares if if if it he can't help who he is. I couldn't help it. I was black and disagreed with BLM. I'm just black and disagree with BLM, you know?" Well, here here's the reason why it's a little bit irritating. Because Dave Smith, you know, for all the flack that he's getting, he remains on YouTube. He's been on YouTube the whole time. He remains on Twitter. He's been on Twitter the whole time. He has bank accounts. He has payment processors. And now that people are waking up about Israel, they want to invite a Jewish person on to tell us, "We're not real anti-Semites. You know, we're not Holocaust deniers, but maybe something's wrong with Israel." And here I am having been banned on YouTube, been banned by banks, every streaming platform, all of it, condemned, life destroyed, and people still are gatekeeping me and saying, "You're a real anti-semite." And I'm saying, "Well, you know, obviously we didn't come far enough." So, I don't doubt his sincerity. I mean, he's a big boy. You know, he he doesn't mind that I'm trash talkinging him. And I I still consider him a friend even though I've been critical of him. But, you know, we have to go a little bit further than to say something's up with the Zionists or Israel. It's not Israel. It is the Jews. And I think that Dave Smith being a Jewish libertarian, I don't think he's ready to go that far. I don't think he's I want to know what you mean by that. So, I'm just so clear is your perspective that if people don't platform you, it's because they don't want to go too far. Uh, it maybe that they aren't that far ideologically, but then that's my job to push them farther. And that's why I say it. That's why I say, you know, and maybe they just disagree with you. Have you ever But that's another thing. Maybe they just have me on the show with you, but I'm gay cap. Okay. But if the more important So for me, if like I care deeply about what's happening to the Palestinians, obviously I've made a point to talk about that and I very much see what you're speaking about that there is this coordinated very sinister movement. Uh I think it operates on the left and the right, whether it's the ADL or Apac. the money is flowing to instantly cancel people, to get them fired, and it's vicious. I mean, it is dirty business. And to survive it, it's hard for most people to even survive it when they go through it. Um, because they're so smeared, it's like an effective tar and feathering. And for it to happen when you were 18 is ridiculous. Uh, but at the same time, if I'm going to use my platform to speak about that, I want to make sure that I'm hosting people that can explain that to people that otherwise may not even be aware of that. Right. Right. So, if you're going to host, if you're if you're why why are you sitting this person down in your show? Well, because we're having a conversation about something that's important. I can either learn from that person, right? Or I think that this person can teach something to my audience, right? If I were to host you and that was the clip that's coming out, do you think people are going to go, "Yeah, you know, that just made me realize here I am just believing that we should I'm I'm a normal conservative like you. You said you were 18. I like these people." And the first thing I hear Nick Fentes say is, "Dave, they're not going to think that you're a good person." This is concern trolling. I'm sorry, but this is this is this is tone policing and this is concerning. It's not poling. Hold up. Let's back it up cuz I'm going to let you speak. It is not tone poling. What I am saying is that you just went through the fact that you genuinely were coming up that you were a conservative. You genuinely liked Ben Shapiro. You genuinely thought these things. So that wasn't a you would not look back on yourself and say, "Well, that I was problematic." like that makes sense. And I'm saying to you that the majority of people have that perspective. You don't have to assign an evil motive. You get into something because you believe it. That's it. It's just that simple. And if you're then going to have somebody who's condemning them, what are we what are we learning? If you're just going to say you're this, you're that. It's like you've forgotten yourself. Like some people just aren't there wherever you are. Okay. But I I missed the part where I condemned him. I missed the part where I condemned him. And I talked about the Dave Smith part repeatedly. And by the way, you're mixing it up and saying, well, you know, if people watch a show, what are what are they going to think if they see that clip? I'm just trying to say to you, why would someone maybe say in a Come on. I mean, so, you know, look, I'm a funny guy. I'm bombastic. I'm provocative. That's part of it. And you know what? You can concern troll and tone police about, you know, whether Ione this. We're laughing during the clip. You and I are laughing. It's funny. I'm laughing at you making fun of me. I don't mind you making fun of me. Yeah. I don't mind you making fun of me if you've ever done that. I mean, and I'm chill, too. No, I don't care. I'm not. Like I said, I told you it's I like that about you cuz I think that you're you're hardcore. I think we're kind of similar in that way. We we don't have thin skin. So, I and I appreciate that about you and I know that Dave Smith is the same way and and I said on that show and other shows, I like him. I think he's a good guy. And I I agree with you. I think he's sincere and I respect him and I think he's a good person actually. He is. And I but I do think that we disagree. And to the extent that I'm critical of the situation, it's not a personal directed at him. I know maybe it comes across that way or it sounds like that to you, but I've said it repeatedly on my show in and that's not the only time I talked about it. I said the problem is this idea, and again, intentional or not, that we need permission from a Jewish person sitting there so that we're not real anti-semmites to talk about the issues. A and I also disagree with Dave Smith on the extent of it. Now, maybe he fundamentally disagrees. I'd love to talk to him about it. That'd be fine with me, but it does come from a place of disagreement. I'm not condemning. I think he genuinely disagrees with you. And that's kind of the point I'm trying to say when I say don't internet too hard is that sometimes you can assign a conspiracy where it's just not that's not the motive. Like for me, I just wanted to have Dave on my show because I had him on before and I think he's great and I like his stuff. Um he's one of my favorite follows. That's it. I don't even think about the fact, well, he's a Jew so let me have him on to tokenize a situation. I don't care. I just like them, you know. And in in in terms of why I could try to appreciate where if somebody's trying to wake somebody up to something, you know, you could dump, I guess, a bucket of ice on someone when they're sleeping and wake them up. Or you could kind of say, okay, you know, are you starting to with my sisters, we have this debate right now about me being a Catholic. My sisters are not Catholic. I don't need to be like, you must understand why the Catholic faith is right. And I It's like, I got there. They're not there yet. Like, chill. Like, you know what I mean? Here's where I was. My sisters were Democrat when I got into politics and we've always kept a sense of humor about things. So, it never became this toxic name calling stuff. Well, it was, but it was like in a with a sense of humor about it. Like my sisters would be like, "Have fun at your clansman rally." And I'd be like, "Cool." Cuz I'd ask her to watch my cat. But the idea that I think that at the moment that I recognize something or at the moment that I become something, everyone else must therefore become that thing. I think that's asinine. I do. Yeah. But I'm not saying that. Look, my show is my platform and I say what I feel about the situation and and my audience is already there with me. You know, I'm I'm doing a show and by the way, I don't even do it for the audience. I I say what I say. I said it eight years ago when it really wasn't popular. I said it five years ago when it was a little more popular. I'm saying it now. And you know, so and that's the difference, I guess, is this is a common critique of me and my audience. People say, "Well, are you being tactful? Are you being strategic?" These kinds of things. I'm not setting plays. I'm I, you know, I will acknowledge I'm impulsive. I am bombastic. I'm I'm out there. I'm a maniac, you know. Uh but my job is to put the truth out there. I am the bucket of ice cold water and I'm dumping it on people. And some people are going to get it and some people it's going to take them longer. I'll let other people set the plays. I'll let other people kind of do the breadcrumbs and do this incremental approach. Me, I kind of figured it out. I was off to the races from the beginning and I just want to cut to the chase and and get to the to the most fundamental part of the idea and so you know that's why some people don't like me granted um but I think the big picture is that I have been suppressed for 10 years because I mean we could say we could sit here all day long and say were you mean to this one? Were you mean to that one? Was this out of pocket? The fact of the matter is I have been more censored than anybody for 10 years. That's the real reason. So, and this is a this is But you're not still being censored. I'm I'm just trying to provide provide feedback to what you just said in that clip. Like, why wouldn't they have me on their platform? I'm not tone pleasing. Go on your show, say whatever you want. Actually, I would make the argument that you're kind of tone policing our shows by saying why won't they like whatever. I'm just saying don't assign evil motive where there just might not be one. Like, I don't think I am. Okay. I was mad that you wouldn't Well, you don't believe me, but I was mad that you know, you're saying Okay. Okay. You're mad that well I was mad that you wouldn't have me on the show because you know look I stand you so hard on Twitter I was stand and the Gropers were there for you for Daily Wire and they wanted the collab so bad last year and you kept saying well we'll do it we'll do it but then he said what are you okay what are you talking about let's let's back this up okay cuz I do want to get to this this is actually something that I find to be very funny first and for a griper is okay this is and I will give you credit where credit is due. You have managed to infect the brains of 40 plus year old men. You and that is actually I think the most compelling part about you is I watched as I was coming up in in my career and I will say I've had four kids in the last few years. I don't pay attention to I think you were on cozy TV. You were banned everywhere. I only know that because 40-year-old men were like obsessively asking me to come out and condemn you. I and I I'll name one of them. Seth Dylan of the Babylon B. He he lives in a Groper simulation. And I'm just to me interested in the idea that an eight then the 18-year-old kid who's been banned everywhere and you have to jump through the hoops to watch him on this obscure cozy.tv has managed to completely send you mad. That's fascinating to me. Credit where credit is due. The Gropers like are truly living in the minds of neocons. There's no question about it. Okay, so for me genuinely, I didn't watch your content. It's I got to tell you, not for moms. Like I'm very into like the antiax stuff. Like no one's I'm not talking at night after five days a week of a show and four kids being like, "What's on Cozy TV? What's Nick Fuentes saying over at Cozy TV?" You're not. No, I am not. And so the first time that I started seeing your clips was kind of at the same moment that I got fired because at the same timeish is when you got put back on Twitter. And I am active on Twitter and I'm seeing clips here and I'm seeing clips there. And I did see uh the clips of you speaking about the Christ is king scenario, some which were hilarious, just kind of getting into the theology of it. And I'm starting to go, okay, I'm kind of getting this Nick Fuentes thing, especially when Jeremy Boring, then the CEO of the Daily Wire, hosted this Christ is King audio Live and that was the first time I ever heard your backstory. So, I genuinely was so I guess not blind to the Graper movement. Um, but like how in I guess how influential you were that these people, as Jeremy admitted in that audio, were watching your show, which was on an app that I had never even heard about. So, I want to give credit where credit is due. But your strategy of I'm going to go on my show and call this person out for not having me on the show when you didn't ask to come on the show and you had a line of communication be because of some legal stuff that was happening in the background where I was asking you um to do a decent thing and tell the truth about the fact that we didn't have this relationship that I think some people thought that we had going on in the background um a political relationship or like strategizing together. Uh, so I just think it was ridiculous. Like I'm like, if you wanted to come on the show, why didn't you just send a big boy message and say, "Hey, Candace, we should collab." And that's what I mean when I say I think you internet too hard. Like you think the way to get that is to go groper war. Gripers, go at and I'm I am the exact opposite demeanor. If you do that, I will definitively not have you on the show. And the irony is we had had the discussion. So I think I messaged you and I was like, "What's the deal with you on YouTube? if I have you on the show. We were just kind of getting set up here. Uh are you allowed to? And you answered and said, "I don't know." You said, "Some people have had me on. Some people have gotten hit." And I'm like, "Okay, well, you know, we're still trying to figure this thing out." And the next thing I know, you've launched a groper war. And I'm going, if you think this is the last strategy you should possibly take if you ever want to get anything with me. I don't respond to like anonymous accounts on like I'm I'm sorry, I'm not 13. I have toddlers at home. Like I get the like I want, I want, I want. And I say to them, if you would like something, you need to use your manners. you need to say, "Can I please have and thank you?" And that's how I felt you were kind of executing this request was in a really immature way, which is immature. Well, I I think you're kind of starting in the middle of the story because when when he left the Daily Wire, everybody was on Twitter and in your live chat and in the comments saying, "We want the collab with Nick Fuentes." And you said in the live chat, "We're going to do it." We have the screenshots in the live chat for your show. You said we're going to do the collab. I have the screenshots. So, you know, if this goes up, we'll post. Are you potentially speaking about like like a live chat that was going and you think that I responded to somebody saying your channel said we're going to do the collab? Okay. Maybe in a I I Are you talking about YouTube? Yes. Genuinely, I don't know what you're talking about, but we can add the screenshot. We can add it cuz I I definitively do not remember saying we were going to do the collab. Even if I indicated I was, I did reach out to you and say, "What's the deal?" because we were talking about like I said we were like we should get him on but then in between me saying we should get him on and you saying I don't know about YouTube suddenly there was like we're we're launching a war on let's talk about that beginning of the story because you you know people were pushing for the collab and and there's a screenshot where you say yeah we'll do the collab and this was like a period of many months. Okay backing Nick Fuentes again here. So, he sent us two screenshots where he says that I said we'll do the collab. And I do not believe these screenshots say that. So, these are the ones that he sent us. Here is number one. He doesn't show us what I was responding to, but we can guess because I said yes, I would talk to Nick. Why not? So, that makes me believe that the person probably said, "Would you ever have Nick on the show?" Or, "Would you ever speak to Nick Fuentes?" And I said, "Yes, I would talk to him. Why not?" I never said we were collabing. And then this is the second screenshot that Nick sent us. It reads, "I will literally speak to anyone on my podcast. My podcast is not for crybab who hate speech." So, I'm not certain how he could have interpreted that as I confirmed I was doing a collab with him, but those are the screenshots he submitted. So, I will allow you guys to interpret that yourself back into the conversation. And then you go into a Twitter space with um Dan Bilzerian and there was um I think one of those Jewish guys was on there. I forget his name. Uh Mike something. Meyer, something Myers was on there. Andrew Meyer was on there. Oh, yeah. You brought him on there. I think Andrew Tate was on there. People said in your replies, "Get Dave Smith. Get Dave Smith." You said, "He's invited to everything I do." All the replies said, "Get Nick Fuentes on there. I'm not banned on Twitter." And so, and here here that was after you had launched this like No, it wasn't. Yeah, I think it was. I don't think it was. But either way, here's here's the point. It just felt like you were making excuses, which was, "Oh, well, it's the YouTube thing. Oh, it's a legal thing. If it's YouTube, we could have done it on my platform. You know, the legal thing was real. I can't I still can't speak about what that legal thing was, but that was very real. That was very real. Um, and I But is it not in effect now? Has something changed? Not for a discussion for another time. But the point being is like that wasn't a joke. You know, that wasn't a joke. You were on the phone with my lawyers. I know. I would know if it was the accusations that were being thrown at me were just inaccurate in regarding that legal thing. And so when I reached out to you to ask you to just clarify that this wasn't real, whatever it was, I was asking you to just do a decent thing. like that was not on a okay well let's collab or not collab it was like hey this is my real life it's being impacted by something that I didn't do but then you kind of in a really crappy manner spoke about that on your show something that I was privately going through that is still lasting okay I have a lot of stuff going on in the background and I was just like what kind of person is this like he know I'm I'm fighting for my life I'm being attacked by Zionists I've just gotten fired I have kids at home I mean at no point do you just go like and and then you knew that I had some legal stuff drama going on in the background at no point you just go like maybe she genuinely just like or or I'm just going to reach out to her and say hey we're already talking do you want to maybe collab down the future that's the adult thing to do and going to your point when I said he's always invited to anything I do I literally had not invited Dave Smith I would just I had not invited him I was just saying if he wants to jump on and say let me on I'll let him on that's it yeah well and here's the thing I think that you can't have your cake and eat it too okay because you also went and said I've never spoken to Nick Fentes before in my life but that was a lie. Okay. But or you didn't know but we had spoken before. Okay. Yeah. Let's clarify that. Yes. I was wrong that there was that one conversation you pointed out about uh when my husband was working for um what what was the app called? Parlor app. Parlor. Oh, I'm sorry. So there were two actually. Yeah. But like I mean come on Nick the like we had this long relationship. Okay. But we can't play this game now. We can't play this. You can't then get on my case and say, "Well, you know, look, I'm just going through a lot and I have this crappy stuff going on." But I don't know about this shot, but I forgot about the conversation. And the other one years ago, I mean, okay. Yes. Okay. You're right. At first, I I there was a conversation that you you can read it live. Well, we should we should throw it up. Let's throw it up and post so people can read what you're Okay. Like back in 2019, what is it? 1819, there was a communication. And then in 2022 during the Kanye thing, I've always been honest. I've talked about that many times. That was that was the first time I remembered us having a conversation was the Kanye stuff. So when I was saying the first time I spoke to him was over the Kanye thing and I've been very honest about that. You said that after cuz first you said we had never spoken and then I insinuated, oh maybe that's not true. And then you said, "Oh, we talked." I can I can legitimately tell you that that's factually you're very wrong because I had to I had to confront that because of some legal stuff that was going on. And I was like, I was very open about the fact that I had a conversation with you when you were hanging out with Yay. I I I you could talk about that openly right now. I couldn't care less. But the point is is that what was the difference in what we're talking about is a communication about a certain situation versus like Candace and Nick had some like background relationship and we're coordinating. That's just not true, you know. And so that was what I was trying to dispel because people were very seriously creating an insane conspiracy theory that I was coordinating with you. It was it was insane. All I can say to you is that retrospectively it was insane. And so if I forgot one communication about Parlor, you are correct. I went and checked and I was like, "Yeah, no, he's right." I um told him that my husband was not working I think for like Google or was I don't know what you thought was happening, but it wasn't real and I told you that. So I just kind of shut down of some conspiracy that you were on. Um, and then was the Kanye thing and there were other people who genuinely believed that you and I were like in this communicative right relationship coordinating like I'm working with the gripers and that was it was just I don't know what to say other than it was it was really loony you know these were coming from older men and I realized that you you were kind of very effectively getting to people that's true but yeah I mean look I and you know this is a long time ago now it was a year ago I didn't I didn't prepare the timeline in advance But the way that I recall, you said we had never talked before. Then you said, "Well, we talked once during Yay." No. Then then we I believe that was the case. But maybe I'm wrong about that. Like I said, I don't have it in front of me, but it felt like you were That's true. I felt like you weren't being completely forthcoming about it. Please be forthcoming. I'm I'm the most honest person in my audience, so nothing is off record. You can say whatever you want right now. Be forthcoming. What did I lie about? I did forget the parlor. You said we had never talked before. We had actually talked a couple of times before. Yeah, but about the same situation. You get my point. We were dealing with something with Yay. This was not like C reaching out like, "Hey, Nick." You didn't say we talked about unrelated things and we've talked before. You said, "We've never talked before. I don't know anything about him. I don't know him." I didn't know anything about you. That's the point. I knew why. Why' you say I was okay? I said to Yay. Well, the point being is that I said today based on my own assessment of things like I thought that there was a bigger risk because somebody was getting involved with his campaign and I had known for that individual to be open about blackmailing people. I obviously as a friend of Yay knowing everything that was going that was going on I was concerned and I expressed that to you and I said you're in proximity to him. He's mad at me for this this and that because Yay was mad at me for a couple of days and I said please just tell him this. That was it. M. So, our communication, we talked about Milo and then you vouched for me with Yay. Yeah. And Milo and now you follow Milo on Twitter. Yeah. Milo and I since have talked about it, you know, because and he respects the fact. That's why I said I'm very honest, so you're not going to catch me here, Nick. I'm not trying to catch you trying to lecture me. No, you can talk. I want you to be as open as possible about this because I just think that there has been so much crap that's been said that's just untrue. Yes, the person was Mil. I wasn't going to identify him, but Milo and I have since talked about it because he recognizes that I was just concerned about Yay. It's the reason I communicate to you is because the person that I knew was not you. It was not Milo. It was Yay. And I was concerned obviously with everything that was going down. He had been at my house and things were going down. I was just concerned and I wanted to make sure that I was protecting him because what I what I knew from Milo publicly because I didn't know Milo either. Have I had a correspondence with Milo in the past, similar to you? Yeah, I saw him at the David Harwood uh Freedom Foundation, but I didn't know Milo like I didn't know you and I was just trying to protect Yay. And so the extent to our conversation was about me trying to be a good friend to somebody else. It wasn't like this. And I told people that I wasn't I didn't tell the audiencees that. What I'm saying is that I told You didn't tell the But that's key cuz I'm not a part of the other conversation. I said to you I said I didn't know you. I didn't know you. Just because I communicate with you about Yay doesn't mean that we know each other. I don't know him. We've never talked. I've never had anything to do with him before. That That's not true. We never We never We never talked. That's not true. That's what you said. And then I said we did talk. Okay. We're going to give you the right to pull the clip of me saying I have never tal I've never talked to Nick Fuentes because I communicated with you about Yay. I was open about that. Okay. Well, and since then, just to clarify, spoke to Milo about that, like you know, and said, "Look, he understands that that was my perspective. Obviously getting into the movement, I like just like you when I first kind of was coming in, I was reading a lot of Milo's blogs, a lot of his writings at Breitbart and he kind of turned the lights on for me in terms of feminism and the BLM movement. Uh, so we never really had I would say the same exact thing. I didn't I didn't really know Milo. I knew his writing. I knew his work, but I didn't know him. So I just don't understand what I did wrong by saying I don't know I didn't I don't know you want me to Well, you know, once again, we're we're kind of massaging the words. You said, "We never talked. I know nothing about him. I don't know him." When we had talked and then you went and changed the statement and said, "Oh, no." You got to pull it up. Okay. We can't. Come on. You got to pull it up now. We can't. I don't have it on me. I didn't know I was coming in. You said it wasn't an ambush. I thought it brought it up, but that's fine. You brought it up. You wanted to You wanted to litigate the beef. I'm happy to do it. I I don't have the receipts prepared, but we can do it. Perfect. I do not know Nick Fuentes. I don't know you. But you already know that. What I do know is that everyone can see what you guys are doing to me. Your pattern is well established and the world and the and the world is waking up to it. My crime is having stood up for myself against your network of smears. I'm responding to the ADL and saying I don't know you. I didn't know I didn't know you. I But that's not the only statement. You said stuff on your show and there were other tweets. It was on my show. I don't have it on me. If you want to come back and we could do anything about it. No, we're not going to do anything about it. I'm just saying like just so everyone can This is This is pre-recorded. So, I'm just going to say if you do go home and find a clip of me saying something that you believe was lying, then I'm happy to share it because I don't lie to people. It's just not something that's like in my DNA. I would rather just tell the truth and deal with the consequences. Um, so I had three separate communications, two separate communications with you uh before I got fired. And they were limited to us discussing Parlor and us discussing Yay. Would you think that's a fair assessment of Yes. Okay. Fine. Done. Okay. fact-checking Fuentes because we told him obviously that he could send us anything in post and we would drop it in. He said that I denied that I had contact with him. This is the proof that he sent us right here. You can see that I tweeted on November 25th, 2022. I tweeted, "I have never in my life been in contact with Milo Yiannopoulos or Nick Fuentes. This is not a personal shot at either of them. That is simply the truth. I met Milo twice, both times at the David Harwood Freedom Center where we were both invited as speakers years ago. As Nick insinuated, this was technically not true because I did have public contact with Nick that then um kind of rolled into a private correspondence. So, I'll read it to you. This is what I tweeted publicly. I tweeted, "This isn't true." Responding to Nick. He was tweeting something about Parlor, which my husband was a CEO of Parlor, so I was defending my husband. I said, "This is not true. Apple was under serious pressure, which is why they reinstated the app. This is a victory. Short-term though, in my opinion, if they don't sue Apple, referring to Parlor again, I'm just out here defending my husband's honor. But to Nick's credit, I then that right after said this to him via DM, a private correspondence, basically just again talking about Parlor and saying that I couldn't say anything just yet." And that was our correspondence that we had that I truly did not remember. You can see it is dated April 19th, 2021. So I was sincere when I said that I didn't have any contact with Nick in 2022, but I did forget this correspondence. So back to the conversation. Um, but going on to the other the broader point that I want to make, I'm glad that we went through that because I think that there's been a lot of people on the internet that have said things that are not true. So that is the basis of the communications that we've had and the whole and I was very aware of obviously like all of the gropers tweeting when I got fired. Uh genuinely didn't know what the griper movement was outside of seeing you guys kind of pop up on college campuses and begin to ask some questions that I actually thought were very fair and questions that I hadn't considered. You know, why was I when I was working at Turning Point USA touring with Dave Rubin who is a homosexual married man. Can you talk about first and foremost what a griper is and how the movement got started? Well, it got started in 2019 uh when Charlie Kirk was doing his first big college tour and um I forget actually the first one. I think it was in Colorado and a couple of fans of my show, I didn't tell him to do this. Actually, people had asked me before, should we do this? Is is this a good idea? And I said no, I don't think so. But two guys who watched the show, they went out on their own and uh I think the one guy asked a question about legal immigration. You're against illegal, but you're for legal immigration. How's that conservative? And then another guy came up and he said uh something about Israel. You know, you seem to be Israel first. What about America? And the two clips blew up on Twitter and I promoted them on my show. I said that was unbelievable. That was really awesome. I said because you know if we show up in MAGA hats and rosaries who we are you know which is Trump proTrump Catholics and we present as the real rightwing this is unignorable and people will start to ask these questions. So the following day he did another event I think in Iowa. Once again there were a couple Gropers asking these types of questions. Then the a third day in New Hampshire same story. And I remember doing a show covering the latest batch of clips. It turned into a thing. We were covering them on the show every night. the clips of these questions. And at that time, Groper was a meme. It was like Pepe, Pepe the Frog. And there's a few variations. There's Pepe, Marv, Apoo, and Groper was one of them. And Groper is like a big cartoon frog. Why is it named Groper? I don't know. I literally don't know what Groper means. It came from a Twitter account called That Groper. He just named it Groper. Okay. So, it just is doesn't mean anything. No. Yeah. I used to, it was technically called Easter toad was the drawing, the the proprietary drawing, but then some Twitter users started calling it Groper. And at that time, you know, people would u personalize Gropers and make them an avatar. So, you know, they'd have different themes and different personalities. And Groper became synonymous with like a faright like Like a Groper was like this guy is painfully obnoxiously faright. Okay. And so I said on my show, imagine you're Charlie Kirk. You're standing up there on the stage sweating and you have a line of groers asking you questions about the USS Liberty and dancing Israelis. I said, "What must be going through his head?" And ever since then, they they took the groer standing upright because the famous picture is he's sitting down like this. But they took a picture of the groer standing upright and there was a meme at the time of Alex Jones uh walking down an alleyway and they copy pasted a bunch of Alex Jones. They said it was an army of Alex Jones. And so someone took that meme and they did it with gropers. They had an army of gropers marching down the alley. And I said, "That's us. That's the Gropers lining up to ask Charlie Kirk a question." So that that was the origin of the name. Okay. Interesting. That I was always wondering. I'm like, what does griper actually mean? And so it's a lot of people that have these anonymous accounts, anonymous accounts, and I like I said, we'll show a clip of it, but I I thought it was very interesting because it was I guess questions that I hadn't really grappled with. Um which is I do. I'm on stage. I'm saying that I'm a Christian, and yet I'm touring with somebody who is a homosexual uh married man. How do I reconcile that? And rather than kind of getting the answer, I think I particularly remember one clip with um gosh, what is his name? I'm totally blanking here. Um it's a black army vet. I I know his name. Rob Smith. It was a Yeah, it was a moment with Rob Smith. And I think somebody shouted down the person and said that they were a like homophobic. Like the question is homophobic. And at that moment, I went, "Yeah, you can't do that. You got to actually answer the question. and there could be an answer, but we can't be like the left and just calling people names because we don't maybe want to confront that there is some substance to this question. Um, but then you guys kind of or maybe it did it sounds like it did start as an online movement. Who are who are the gropers behind the scenes? Do you have communication with these people? They're real obviously they're real human beings, but my point is that like is this movement like you guys are all on a group chat and you know these individuals. Can we get a demographic? Are they older? Are they younger? Who are the grapers? Well, they are real human beings. They're all young white men. Uh or there's other men, too. I mean, some of them are Hispanic, some of them are black, some of them are Jewish for that matter. But, uh they're they're mostly young men, college, generation Z, some of them even high school-aged. And um and all of them very Christian, very Catholic. Also, they're fans of the show. You know, a lot of people say have this cult-like following. People watch the show and they adopt the political viewpoint, the religious viewpoint. And so they're basically far-right, pro-America, Catholic at that time, big Trump supporters and uh young guys. Okay. All right. We got to do we have to watch another Nick Fuentes clip. I think we should definitely watch Let's watch the one the first one that you had that you showed me, Skyler. Why is it that Canis Owens will interview Harvey Weinstein before she'll talk to me? So true. Am I really that glad you agree with yourself? People said when Candace Owen split with Daily Wire, people begged her to do a collaboration with me. They said, "Talk to Nick Fuentes. You stole all his talking points. Talk to Nick Fuentes. You get all your ideas from him, all your slogans. He was a martyr. He made the sacrifices that made it popular for you to do this." She said, "Oh, I can't because I'm on YouTube." Uh, but I also can't have him on my website because of some lawsuit. That's so crappy to me. That part's really crappy to me. I have to say watching it back. No, I do want to say we don't have to get into it, but that's crappy to me because it was like I don't know. I just think that I try to do a really good job of being a human being offline, you know what I mean? And of people are going through stuff or whatever. And that was real. Like that's not like oh my god, like she's trying to be a victim. It was very real. My life was kind of you saw it was throw it was thrown up in the air. But we don't need we don't need to focus on that. But I do want to get to the point. Do you actually believe that I was getting all my ideas from you? Like do you actually believe I was watching Cozy TV? Because I then somebody showed me a clip of you saying the same thing because I had I guess you said in the same week or you said last week I was talking about this. Now this week Ken is talking about it and it was pertaining to uh the PBS documentary, The Savage Peace, which was about the German genocide that took place after the war had ended. And that documentary opened up my eyes a lot to the fact that we had only been told kind of one strand regarding World War II and I told my audience they should watch it and there was a clip of you kind of suggesting that I got that from you. So did you actually believe that I had gotten that from you or that I was watching your show and stealing your ideas? Not that one. I don't know what that's all about thing. But but look, I mean you left Daily Wire with the whole Christ is King America First for years. That's what I was known for. Now, if you want to say you never heard of me until a couple years ago or No, I heard of you in 2019. You said you said earlier though that you know you didn't really watch anything or know anything until about a year ago. If that's what you say, okay, that's fine. But it'd be a pretty stunning coincidence. Um, and I will say I heard from other people. I'm not going to say who, uh, but I heard from a mutual friend. You watched my show back in 2020. Maybe that person's lying. I don't know that. But I'd heard that from multiple people. So you can name the person because I'm telling you. So and and I'll ask you this question again. So you said Christ is king. That's very interesting. So you think that any person that says Christ is King? Oh, no. I didn't say that. Okay. Cuz I I actually do want to understand this. I'm not I'm not I'm genuinely pushing back here cuz I I was very confused by this. I'm like Yay just named his whole album Jesus is King, right? Um or two albums ago was Jesus is King. It was definitely a moment, a cultural zeitgeist that had this rapper to to come out and start singing about Christ like he did early on when he said when he did the Jesus Walk stuff. And I was just like, does he does Nick actually believe like I genuinely was not watching your show. It's the only thing I can tell you. Okay. Um I have friends that were I will definitely say male men between the ages of like 30 and 40 are watching your show. There is and I would say 40 and beyond like I just said are watching your show. I would imagine you have a very male internets savvy audience would be I am terrible at the internet. Like I mean it is embarrassing. I'm basically a grandma when it comes to internet. My husband thinks it's it's like how are you a person that people watch the internet you don't even know how to use. I just don't love tech. Tech is not really my thing. I like to communicate. I'm a woman. I like to to to speak but I don't really like to figure out how all this stuff works. And so once you got banned I just didn't see I wouldn't have seen your stuff. But then as soon as you were back on Twitter, I started seeing your clips all the time because you started trending. You were trending the day that you got back onto X, you were trending and I was like, "Okay, Nick is trending clips recently just were trending about you." So I think if you had been on X that whole time and you said you were like, "You've never seen my stuff." That would be a little ridiculous. But genuinely, like when you're starting a family and like as soon as I am done with the podcast, it got to be like straight back into mommy mode. It's just I just don't think that girl that many women are watching you. Is that fair? Yeah. like like I said, if that's what you're saying, then yeah, I believe you. 100% the truth. Genuinely didn't get uh any of my ideas from you and then was being accused of getting all of my ideas from you. So, obviously, there must have been naturally something that was happening where what I was saying or what I was noticing, people were going, "Oh, Nick Fuentes has spoken about this already." Well, I mean, those were like things that I was known for when we would disrupt Turning Point, which is where you worked at, or Daily Wire, which you also worked there. They would go in chanting, "Christ is king. Christ is king." And they were the gropers. And if you were aware of the Groper War and Yay 24 and me on Twitter last year, I saw the literal clips of them asking questions that were going viral. Okay. They weren't chanting Crisis King. They were just they were just the literal clips of them and I thought it was I thought it was smart. I think it made me challenge some of my ideas. So, I will give you credit where credit is due or the students that were asking those questions. Credit where credit is due. I think a lot of times conservatives, we say things and we say them because everyone else is doing it. Same thing with the reason I think both of us started as being pro-Israel. It just was everybody else is doing it. You It feels good. You are kind of young and excited about the ideas and then you kind of go, "Oh, wait. Something's wrong." And both of us kind of dealt with this punch in the face, right? Yeah. Well, I was 18. You know what I'm saying? I was 18. So, you know, I was I I don't know that I was doing it because everybody else was doing it. I was doing it because that was just the first thing I read because that was the stuff that was out there. Um, and then yeah, I mean, and then you went through it. I mean, and hey, and likewise, credit where it's due. Um, you know, maybe I've been unfair to you. I don't I don't know you, you know, and like you said, we talked once and twice. We finally got there. No, but it's true. And and I've never This is the first time I've met you and I don't know you. So, and I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong, you know, maybe I've been unfair to you. Uh, but for what it's worth, you they did put you through the ringer and I don't even need to tell you that. You know it and everyone knows it. And it's uh it sucks. I actually thought you were a fed at one point. I know. Yeah. Because I'm sitting here going, "This makes no sense. I literally just am being punched in the face a thousand times. Everyone's coming after me. What did I do? I I tweeted the hashtag Christristis King and like my whole life is over." And now I kind of understand that it was because people were watching your show and they were and and truly people can just be ignorant. It's just like I said, not it's not female content. I would not describe you as like all the moms are lining up to watch Nick Fentes. Some moms love me. Some moms love you. I'm sure, but as a rule, I don't think uh that we're watching your show. And so, I think it was kind of this thing that they they definitely believe that there was some sort of coordination going on between you and I. It was um it sucked. I'm not going to lie. It was not an easy year last year. And so, when on top of that, you started telling people to attack me, um I didn't really tell people to attack me. Okay, fair. I I might be misquing there, but like they got the idea that they should start attacking me. I was like, "Okay, this guy must be working with the ADL." Cuz the ADL had just attacked me and then it was like two weeks later you're attacking me or and people that watch your show were attacking me. I'm just going, "What the heck is going on in my life right now?" Again, when you're in the moment, you can kind of believe something to be true, but I definitely thought that you maybe were like a total fed. Yeah, I heard that you heard that from Tucker. Is that true? No. No. Yeah, cuz I heard that and uh and that was I think a lot of people, by the way, have asked that question like, "Is he a fed?" I did not hear from Tucker like Nick Fendz is definitely a threat. Well, Tucker is pushing that around. Uh it's like a whisper campaign. He he said that to Alex Jones. He said that to a lot of people. So, well, I thought I said it to people cuz I I was definitely saying like he's got to be a Fed cuz what is he doing? And that that was part of why I was uh in particular a little upset towards the middle of the beef. Okay. Last year. Fair. But I really did believe it. I was just I did it didn't make sense to me. I'm like, what am I doing that everybody everywhere is is upset with me? Well, and I think suffice to say, unfortunately, in this space, there is a lot of distrust, I think, on both sides because there's so much deception and so much intimidation and bullying and these shady tactics that, you know, when you don't know everybody, you really don't know what to make of everybody else. You know, I'm an unknown quantity quantity to you. I come from a different world. I'm a young man. I'm on the political outside. I'm on cozy TV. You're an unknown to me. You're you're in the belly of the beast at Turning Point and Daily Wire. And I don't mean that to cast dispersions, but just to say we're coming at each other from completely different worlds and I've always been in my world. You're sort of leaving that world and coming to these views. And I I think there's sort of a mutual distrust and maybe misunderstanding, which is why it's good to sit down and chat, you know. Yeah. Well, and by the way, I you can say whatever you want on your show, but I would just encourage you to like maybe sometimes think people are just not where you're at sometimes. And I have to check myself at times. And I I think having I think having the exercise I'm the future. Okay. You're you're with Yay in in the future. Yay. Somewhere in the future. Five years ahead. Okay. Let me ask you some of these questions. So, you do have ideas that there shouldn't be interracial marriage. I've seen those clips. Can you explain why that is? Yeah. I It's not that I don't think there should be interracial marriage. I'm Catholic, so as you know, it's not a sin uh to be in an interracial marriage or relationship, but uh I am I am racist. I would say I believe in the races. I believe there are white people and black people and Hispanics and Asians and I think that it's a core part of our identity. It's who we are. And there's like this conservative reflex to say we're colorblind. Race doesn't mean anything. And you know, Pat Buchanan said this. He said it's not everything, but it isn't nothing. And I definitely lean more towards the latter, which is it's it really is a core part of who we are. Uh our culture, our heritage, our ancestors, our customs, all of it. You know, it's not that I don't think that two people can fall in love from different races. Of course, they can, and they have throughout history, and the races have mixed throughout history and assimilated. But for someone like myself, I I always say on my show, it's just my value. I want to marry someone that looks like me, that comes from a similar background because I want my kids to look like me. I want my grandkids to look like me. But are you when you Sorry, I just wanted to make sure did you say I'm a racialist or I'm a racist? You know, for a long time, I would say I'm racialist. Now I just say I'm racist. Okay. So when you say you're racist, because these definitions get changed around. Racist, you know, anti-semitism gets expanded, expanded. What do you mean when you say I'm a racist? Because I think most people watching this would go if you are a racist in the traditional sense of the term, why are you on this podcast? Right? Wouldn't you just go, you know what, Candace is black and she's therefore I don't want to speak to her. Certainly not going on to your show and saying, why won't Candace have me on? That doesn't really seem to line up with the traditional sense of the idea of racist. though. Yeah. And I'm I'm using I'm being a little tongue and cheek. I mean, for the purpose of understanding, I'd say my views are I'm a racialist. But I I do think that we need to deconstruct this idea of racism in the sense that, you know, look, you're black, I'm white. It is what it is. For my entire life, people have been walking around in eggshells about the subject of race, about white people being racist. Can I say this? Can I say that? Can I have this opinion? And me, I'm sort of, you know, Gavin McKinnus said it like this. He said, you're kind of postracist. You're sort of after this craze where everything was racist. It's it's sort of this recognition that we live in a heavily racial world. And you know, look, sometimes we have racist feelings. Racist feelings like I want to live in a white neighborhood. I don't want to live in a black neighborhood. If they're all like you, obviously it'd be a different story. But when we think of a black neighborhood, we know what that means and why the property value. But that's black American. And so this is why I want to I I want to understand this idea better because and this is kind of something my cousin has said which I guess you could say is a racist statement but she says that white people in America are the white trash of white people in the world meaning that like there's a special category of uniquely that you don't see when you're dealing with like white Americans here that if you went across to I mean like Switzerland you you wouldn't see this version of a white person necessarily or this you maybe went to the continent of Africa you don't see this version of a black person either like even if you went to like to the tribes out in Africa that still exist, they would be a far cry from a black American living in a neighborhood in Compton, right? So, I'm trying to understand if you're actually you think that it's all black people are like this or if your world is kind of colored by this is what's going on in America. This has failed for a thousand reason. Welfareism has definitely like I mean black people in 1940s stand up. my grandfather. I talk about that denigration and the corrosion of culture that's happening white, black, whatever you want to name it, there is this intentional corrosion of culture. Um, so do you think it's literally well this is just what a black person is when they come out or do you think that post welfare lb great society this is what black Americans have become and I have a right to respond to that and say that as a white man I don't want to live there. Well, you know, I think it's more nature than people would like to believe. You know, there's this classic tension of is it nature, is it nurture? Is it is it cultural or is it uh intrinsic? Is it racial? And I've always been on the latter side of this among conservatives. Conservatives like to say it's it's all culture. Black America is the way it is because of hip-hop music and the Great Society and that kind of stuff. And I think the uncomfortable reality is a big part of it is intrinsic. You know, one of the big arguments against the abolition of slavery in the 1860s is that, you know, when Europeans colonized Africa, they hadn't discovered the wheel. There's no two-story buildings. There's no writing. There's no written language. Missionaries had to go to Africa in the last century and invent it for the African people because they there's no recorded history. They didn't have writing. You So Egypt is not in Africa. Well, Egypt is a different race. The Egyptians were not black. Okay. But you said when they went to Africa. So I just want to the interior of Africa in the late 19th century. Scrambled Africa. So we're now knocking Egypt out of Africa. Well, Egypt is part of Northern Africa. So there's Africa. You said Africa. So I'm I'm being But it's not I'm not trying to be I'm not trying to get a gotcha. I'm just responding. You're saying Africa. It's in Africa. It's Egypt. It's kind of ridiculous to say there was no written language. So I'm just trying to get you to to Sure. Egyptians are not African. If I'm not pushing back, the internet will. So Egyptians are not racial Africans. When I say African, I'm saying subser African subsarent. Okay. Black people that Yeah. because it is a different race um in subseran Africa and we didn't Europeans did not penetrate that until the late 19th century they didn't have any of this to the extent that you have infrastructure in Africa it's from the Muslims in the Sahel and the Maghreb in northern Africa where the Arabs colonized and then you had you know Carthage and Egypt you had ancient civilizations but subs here in Africa they didn't have that you take these people out of the that land and put them here and they're enslaved people you let them free in a modern liberal republic, they're not going to succeed. It's not going to go well for them. And that was one of the arguments against abolition. People said if you free them without any assimilation, without any kind of process for them to be acclimated, they're going to die. And that's exactly what happened. Many of like the the bottom 10% of like the lowest IQ Africans just died off for generations. And it had a, you know, pardon the expression, but it had a eugenic effect because over time, if if the if the weakest are dying off, that's one argument for why blacks in America have a standard deviation higher IQ than the blacks in subsaharan Africa. So, um, you know, so I do believe there is something intrinsic going on there. And what what makes people uncomfortable about this is the idea that it's unchangeable. There's something about, and this is why I'm a Catholic, we do have an inherent desire for universalism. We we do believe that there's a common humanity and a common human community and all of that. We hate the idea that we're born a certain way and we can never change and that's just the way it is. And we we even think about this in terms of, you know, it's become not so popular these days to tell children you can be whatever you want to be because we know that's not the case. You know, some people are tall, some people are short, some people are smart, some dumb, some ugly, some handsome. That's why, by the way, you know, incelum is a big part of this also. So you believe these are immutable characteristics that are assigned at birth. I think that yes, for the most part, things like race, all those attributes are immutable and unchangeable and They have changed. Just factually speaking, they have changed. They change over time, over the generations. Okay. So then you don't think it's immutable cuz if if it was if this was an immutable individual person. Okay. So you're saying that if you are born at this space and time as a black person in America, here is the cards that you're dealt with and you can't change that over time. Something like IQ does not change. It can't doesn't change wildly. It only changes genetically over IQ is a big one. And that changes that's a genetic trait. And so that can change over the generations, but not you can't take an individual that's 75 IQ, which is the average in West Africa, and take them to 100. So two dumb people can't produce a smart person. I believe they can actually. Yeah. But so does that kind of debunk your No, because that's it's rare that that happens. But IQ is a heritable trait. So it's unlikely that that happens. Okay. And do you not recognize that there's group differences in IQ or I oh I think that there's group differences but I I wouldn't say and and the reason why I'm pushing back on this is because those perspectives that you hold Thomas soul did a really good job job debunking that and I think the book is called intellectuals and race and he opens up and makes a very sound argument uh that these characteristics are not immutable and that it it can be your environment and he kind of goes back and discusses like you know who had the highest IQ and who now has the highest IQ and so I just disagree with you fundamentally but um you have a right to have that perspective. So you don't think that there's group differences on average between the races? I think just to be clear I think there would be group differences if you took an like we were talking about an American versus somebody who graduates uh college in Europe there would be tremendous differences. Um I I not tremendous but yeah there would be slight differences but you don't think that racially there's differences between races? I think yeah because we have huge differences culturally. So, going to your point of saying, "I don't want to live in a black neighborhood." Well, neither does LeBron James when he gets money, right? There's a reason for that because there is something that's happening culturally in black America that's been going on for a very long time. Um, but that thing, I would argue, didn't exist in What about in Africa and Haiti? I mean, they're killing and eat each other in Africa and Haiti. Everywhere where they are, you have these problems. Yeah. I'd like to look into and I I'm I'm pleading ignorant, but I've heard some things about what what happened in Haiti and what the Clinton Foundation did there. So, I I think I'd have to look more into the history of Haiti to be able to push back on that at all. I just I don't think I agree with that. What about all of Africa then? There's not one country in Subsaran Africa that's successful. Not one. They're all least developed countries. They're all fail states. This kind of reminds me, and we could kind of flush out this conversation together, and I'm not perhaps ready to have it fully, but I do remember going back to Dave Smith where he was conceding a point on, well, all of these other Middle Eastern countries, no, you wouldn't want to live there. You'd want to live in Israel. In my mind, I'm going, well, because you just keep bombing the crap out of them if they ever try to get ahead. I remember watching this clip of him saying that, going, why don't these countries get ahead? and kind of going back in my mind to the Gaddafi speech where he he was he was speaking essentially about, you know, here's what we got to do in Libya to get ahead. Here's what we're going to do uh with the dollar and we're going to be progressive and this and that. And they killed them. And then what happened to those Libyan refugees? Suddenly they're now pouring into just like he said was going to happen that they were now pouring into the European continent and Europeans are complaining. Who are these people? And so the question is, are we allowing because I'm I'm like Africa is a pretty rich country. Like why aren't Africans controlling the diamond trade? Who's taking all the diamonds so that they can't control the diamond trade diamond trade? And how long have these people been doing that? Being essentially culture vultures. That's kind of the journey that I've been down now in terms of really trying to go back and look into history to see what's happened. And I never trust myself when I have a perspective now because I realize how much of my opinions and beliefs were shaped by the public school system. And so I I don't think you're right. I think that there has been a very sophisticated effort um to just like you would say now uh in terms of people that are intentionally attacking Anglo-Saxons. And I'm just learning about that that there were these books that were written to we must genocide the Anglo-Saxons that were going on for a lot longer than I realized. Uh history didn't begin with World War II, but I think it would take a lot of time to kind of unpack that. Yeah. Like are we stopping people from getting ahead just because I don't know that just sounds I mean being honest with you that just sounds to me like a left-wing argument when they say why don't these countries get ahead? Colonialism you're you know you're a colonizer. It's like, okay, but when we got there, they had no development. When we we got to Africa, they had no technological development. So, you think even if we weren't at war, and sure, you could say that you think that's a leftist argument. Um, I would only push back on that because I've learned so much about just like recent history that I didn't know. But you think that the Middle East, like if we had done touched done nothing in terms of the Middle East, that they would just be savages and just be like, you know, America didn't do anything to set it doesn't set anything backwards. You're just like bombing a place. Um, yeah, kind of. I I I think that we did set them back because when they don't have political order, it prevents development and investment and things like that. But you know again when you look at the antecedence of all these you know the history didn't start like you said with World War II in the 20th century there's a reason that European civilization created this enormous gap between them and everybody else. And uh I don't think it was that it was white supremacy or we were it was unfair or something like that. I think it's because Europeans are smarter. I think that on average European So to use your argument against you that could be said about Ashkanazis. So if you're sitting here saying I believe in some conspiracy and that it's or coordinated effort and blah blah blah that could they could look at you and say that's a leftist argument. We're just smarter. I think they are smarter. Well, I would say this. I would say they're they are probably as smart as a smartest white race. But the difference between the Jews and the white people is that they work as a team. And so if you look at for example things like transportation, white people invented every mode of transportation, railroad, cars, airplanes, all of it. When you look at fields of knowledge, white people invented all that. Chemistry, anthropology, all that stuff. So white people really did give birth to the modern world world in a major way. Jewish people are high verbal IQ because they're lawyers. They're rabbis. That's what a rabbi is is a lawyer. That's what the Talmud is. It's a lawyerly back and forth. And so they're skilled at some things. And you're not wrong. They're extremely educated. They're extremely intelligent. They're a unique case where, you know, 2% of the population over represented, 2,000%. Are they 2,000% smarter? Answer is no. Because if you look at the standardized testing, the top scores in the high school standardized tests are almost all Asians in math and science. Asians aren't over represented in power. It's Jewish people. So Jewish people are not, you know, proportionately as more intelligent as they are more over represented. And and that goes to their real superpower, which is they're an organized minority. An organized minority will be the disorganized majority. As far as Africa is concerned, they didn't have the wheel. You know, we got there, they didn't have the wheel. And um it's unfortunate. It's not anything that people are happy about. I don't, you know, I don't believe that makes Africans inferior. But I do think that that explains their relative level of development that has been persistent over centuries, millennia. Yeah, I would probably disagree with that point altogether. Okay. So you do So then at least you are agreeing that Jewish people are just born smarter. Yeah, they're very high IQ. I don't know that they're smarter than white people, but they're Well, you have to That's what the the results say. That's what some results say. Depends on what results you're looking at. Okay. I I thought that was kind of the uh maybe I'm just reading it in one term, but I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that like Ashkenazis have the highest IQs. They like to embellish that. And there's different kinds of IQ. I think Chinese people probably have the highest IQ, Chinese or Japanese. But how could how do you pick and choose what you believe and what you don't believe and and then form a basis like well I definitely believe that black people are dumb but I totally don't necessarily believe I'm I'm I'm obviously being a little bit hyperolic here but I totally don't necessarily believe that Ashkanazis are the smartest. Like how do you Well, I said they're probably among the smartest races. As to who's the smartest, it's tough to say and I think that Jewish people do embellish that for obvious reasons. Now there there are some studies that say that Ashkanazi Jews do have the highest average IQ and that does exist. Yeah. But so then for me the reason why I'm I'm skeptical of it all to be honest with you is because I'm I'm skeptical of history full stop. Right. So when you're like well this is what we did all of history or well well skeptical of history full stop because we're living in a present right now where they're lying about what happened yesterday. And then when I realized like when you completely remove something that would obviously inform our perspectives in a different way as I covered on my show this week like the havar the havar agreement between the Zionists um and the Nazis like that's kind of a pretty big thing to not teach people in school that would maybe inform and make us ask some questions when you totally remove like a German genocide and only focus on one genocide or don't focus on speaking about the bullshik revolution. I don't question I I now have a lot of questions about history full stop and so he who prints the textbook is king and so if you are coming up with a concept like well this is an immutable trait and I know because I read or I learned this at school or this textbook or I I read this book he who prints the textbook is king and I'm kind of learning that right now in terms of Hollywood Babylon relationship that the you know the deep state has had with publishing agencies for a reason you know this I know this um you can't even get your book published um if you want to get your book published because they're controlling the press. That's kind of been a running theme. Certainly was the reason why the Russian SAR uh they were pamphleteers at that time, but like certainly was the reason that he got overthrown was that they realize the power of the press. Um and so when people have perspectives like you and they're base it on like historical knowledge, this person invented the wheel. I'm like, I don't know. I don't really know what's up and what's down to be honest with you. I don't even believe in the moonlanding. Tartaria. Mhm. There you go. There's another one. There's something there. Um, that's very funny. I would not kidding. But the point being is that Yeah. So, the more that I learn, the one thing I learn is that we know very little. And so, I I would never make a sweeping conclusion like that confidently. It could be that some group is some groups are more evil. They're willing to do stuff that you wouldn't do. They're willing to take your entire culture, your ideas, and purport that it was theirs. And that's something that we're kind of tackling in my book club right now because we're realizing that the elite very much believed in this sort of coalistic sexual ritual magic, but actually they stole it from Egyptians and like Sigman Freud was obsessed with the Egyptians and uh we talked about Alistister Crowley. And so the more I learned about what they were obsessed with, I'm like, "Okay, so you're supposed to be like the brightest people in the world and you've had wealth forever." But I think you're willing to to do more that most people that just have like a a discerning, I don't know, just have the Holy Spirit. Well, it just wouldn't do. And so does the most evil person get to the top and then they get to say, "Well, we're just like what's going to happen?" For example, bring it back to what we've been discussing and and I will give I will give a specific example. I won't I won't even mince words here. It shocked me to learn that Armen Hammer, do you know Arand Hammer, the actor? Yeah. He is racially Jewish. No, they sometimes there it's race, sometimes it's an ethnicity, sometimes it's religion, who knows? But Army Hammer's family backstory is that his however many great-grandfathers named Arm and Hammer was named Arm and Hammer, literally. Okay. Um because he was considered Stalin and Vladimir Lennon's favorite Jew. Okay. Fascinating. And so what he would do is he would go between uh Russia and America, he would set up like all of these uh his his father was Julius Hammer and he established the diamond district. So you're telling me that when Christians were being mass murdered and their belongings were being taken, you got these guys going back and forth establishing districts in America. They're they're pedalling art. He he started pedaling art. He started pedaling diamonds. I think that's stolen. Okay. So, if our American history is going to teach us that like, oh, like the reason they established Arman Hammy's fortune is like they opened all these art galleries, it's stolen. You stole this from Christians um that were being murdered and had all their stuff taken. We can apply that logic to what's happening in Palestine. Everyone thinks about, okay, okay, it's very clearly what's happening is an ethnic cleansing. Where's all that stuff going? Are we going in the future go well Palestinians just couldn't get ahead because, you know, they just they're just not that smart. You know, I fundamentally if you look at the IQ of Palestinian, the reason why they got ahead is because they weren't that smart and the Israelis were just really smart or no, the Israelis were just evil. And so I am not comfortable with the conclusion that you've arrived at because I just pay attention to what's happening now and what limited research that I've done. I'm like, well, some people are just a little more evil. like they'll rewrite the books and 50 maybe 100 years from now they're going to say the Palestinians never had that land and it was really a matter of people lying and it was anti-semitic and we'll be none the wiser right bear I disagree I just fundamentally disagree I think that you know it's such a one-sided it's unfortunate but it's so one-sided just a chronic lack of development and persistent underclass status and lack of contributions to mankind. I mean, certainly in the arts and in athletics, but no inventions, no philosophers, no no true great masterpieces, anything like that. Um, in terms of fine art really, uh, and then you have the whole the whole planet is like this, you I mean, if half of Africa was super developed or halfway developed and the other half wasn't, you maybe you'd have an argument, but it's whether they're socialist or capitalist, whether they got colonized or not, whether they got freed from slavery in 1800 or in 1860 or it's the same story everywhere. There's not one written language among them. You know, you talk about who he who controls the printing press. They don't have books. They don't have words to put in the books. And I think that, you know, it's it's a sad fact of the world, but it's something we have to deal with. And to me, that's the only conclusion that satisfies. And and don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from. I'm not, you know, I'll give you an example. My family lived in Chicago for five, four or five generations. And uh my parents and my grandmother, they had a security firm in the city. They taught cops and uh security guards how to shoot their guns and gave them licenses and things like that. and almost all their clientele were black. And they when I was growing up, this was impressed upon me at an early age. They always said the older generations in Chicago, when my grandmother was growing up in the projects, when my parents were running this business in the 80s and 90s, they said they were the most polite, the most pious, the most considerate. Some of them couldn't read though. You know, they would come in and not be able to read. But they were de they were more they were less dysfunctional than my family. you know, my grandmother, her mother had mental illness and she would look outside the window in the projects and see a black family across the way and they were sitting around the table holding hands saying grace and it was an intact family. So I I completely agree with you some obviously there's a cultural destruction obviously there's a cultural decline but I think that was constant even though the older generation was more gental I think that honestly that came from oppression that came from a society where they were the minority there was racism there was abuse there was segregation and I think that made black people meek and if you look the out of wedlock birth rate started to blow up not after great society in the late 60s, but in the 50s during the civil rights era. And I think that that was sort of a regression to the mean moment. And you know, again, I I I think that it's not that black people can't be good people. There aren't smart black people or there aren't, you know, incredible black people. I'm sitting across from one right now or yay and everything like that. But on the whole, on average, and there's billions of black people, they do have that lower level of development. And I think that's why they underperform. And you know, I think it's I think it's totally ignorant. We can disagree on that, but I think it would be the same as saying like we look at women today who are all a bunch of hoes and like that's kind of just become the thing. Like this is what women are. And then kind of looking at this moment in time and saying like this is just who they are. It's like women women as soon as they come of age, they just want to like be on screen shaking their butts because they're all low IQ and they need men to do this or whatever. It's like no, the culture has been corroing for a very long time. Um, and I don't accept the argument that it's because women are women and that's just who they all are deep up deep down on the inside. You know, I find that I I do think that um in time you might move away from that. Okay, I'm openminded. Yeah, we'll see. Okay, so you are a racist. You accept that you are anti-semitic. I don't like actually using that word because even that is what I mean like trickery where it's like seemetic. Palestinians are so nothing more anti-Semitic than blowing up Palestinians. Um, are you a Jew hater? No, I don't hate anybody. You hate Jews? I don't hate Jews. I don't hate anybody. You don't hate anybody? Okay. Um, and your faith, you don't find that saying that you're a Catholic while also saying that you don't believe that whites and blacks should be married or you don't believe in interracial marriage for whatever reason, that doesn't conflict with your Catholicism? No, I don't think so. Okay. But you said that like that's not a Catholic perspective. It's not a sin. The Catholic Church doesn't say it's a sin uh to mixed races, but there have been various Catholic authors that have said that it's not conducive to a long-term marriage to mixed races because you have this clash. You have this dissonance between cultures, between different upbringings. And so they say if if the selfless goal of a marriage is to rear children and you want to make that as conducive as possible, then you should marry within your race. It's not a sin if you don't. Catholic author I don't know off the top of my head, but there are Catholic theologians that have said that it's not conducive to a long-term marriage and stable. Okay, jumping in here. Even though he didn't say that he would produce a document, I thought it was important to fact check this one obviously because I don't want people to walk away with a perspective that it's a Catholic teaching or Catholic idea or Catholic theology that people shouldn't be marrying outside of their race. So, I gave him an opportunity and told him it was important to me if he could supply us with the name or the reading. And this is what he came back with that we were able to uh fact check as being an accurate quotation from Thomas Aquinus. The quotation reads, "It is less fitting to marry one who is far removed from us in customs and manners, lest the mutual fellowship be hindered." Doesn't say anything about race. I certainly don't disagree with that whatsoever. And so I am not clear on how that could be interpreted as being about race. But again, the only reason I wanted to fact check that is because it's really important for people who are obviously having faith-based discussions to know that that is not a Catholic perspective. All right, let's get back into the conversation. And by the way, the statistics bear this out. There's more mental illness, more domestic abuse in mixed race households. It depends on which one. Some are some are worse than others in terms of the statistics, but u but obviously, I mean, look, at the end of the day, elephant in the room is you're a black woman in a mixed marriage. So obviously we have to we don't Yeah, I I listen I'm never going to adop obviously adopt your beliefs on it. I just I just think it's patently wrong. Um but do you understand why I would want to have grandchildren that are white? I don't have an issue with you saying you want your kids to But do you understand why I would believe that or feel that way? No, cuz I'm not white. I I don't What about your grandchildren being black for that matter then? Well, I'm mixed race, so I mean I just feel like that each kid comes out looking different. It's kind of incredible. So, I just there's I think that when you actually have children, you realize like it's incredible how like my daughter is a little bit darker, but she looks like my husband and then like my son's whiter, but he looks just like me. Mhm. And I think that's kind of one of the exciting parts of being in a mixed race relationship. I'm always like, I wonder if this kid is going to come out looking like. Um, if you're saying that generations down, like three generations down be possible that you could just have all black kids or something, would that bother you? You'll probably be dead. You probably be dead. I'm alive now and I No, but I'm saying is that like by the time you could breed it out, so to speak, you'd be dead. Uh so I'm just answering your question like it doesn't bother me at all. No. Uh obviously not. I'm saying but do you understand why I would feel that way? If I understood it, I wouldn't be in a a mixed race relationship. So I don't understand it. But you have no empathy then for like No, you can't step outside of your situation. No, I mean no I don't need to have how would I have empathy for it? I mean I just I don't I don't feel that way. So it's just something that we disagree on. Well, I I'm saying that because I can I actually can understand the appeal of a mixed race relationship. I get it. I mean, I find other races attractive also. And, you know, if I was in love with a person from another race, I would probably want to build a life with them also. But my values are not just who I'm in love with and things like that. It's also my heritage, my identity, my race. And um, you know, I I like the idea. It it is important to me. My parents look a certain way. Their parents look a certain way. We come from a certain place. I like the unbroken chain. And I I want my grandchildren and great grandchildren to have a similar complexion. I want them to have similar hair. I want, you know, because the these kinds of things, they echo. We're all connected not just in time uh horizontally, but vertically across the generations. And so the idea that, you know, two or three generations down the line, one of my children bears no resemblance to me at all, it's almost as if we're not related. It's almost as if I never existed. And uh there's something very disturbing to me about that. And I can understand why people are okay with that. Um you know, because people have various feelings about race. They say, "I don't care about my race or whatever." But I do. Okay. Okay. That that's totally fine. And like I said, it's not a Catholic doctrinal perspective. It's your perspective. uh you're entitled to it. You can marry whoever you want. That's the point of your country. But you would you make the argument that it should be legislative? No, I don't think it should be legislated at all. No, it's just your perspective. Yeah. It's my value. Listen, by the way, you're allowed to have a type. That's one of the things I think I I don't personally care if people tell me, "I'm not attracted to black women. I'm not attracted to Spanish." Whatever it is, do your thing. You know what I mean? That that's that's the reason why you're allowed to be you and I'm allowed to be me. Um a question that I would ask you then is what what is your dating life? I don't have a dating life. So, you don't date? No. Do you have a perspective about who you want to marry? Do you intend to get married? I do. I do intend to get married and have kids. So, where are you at on that? I'm trying to uh get uh prepared for that mentally. What does that mean? You're 26 years old. I uh I like my life. I like being single. I like being a guy. I I like what I like. I like reading books. I like doing my show. Um I'm a pretty antisocial person. And it's a big adjustment for a man um to go from having a life where you can do whatever you want, go wherever you want, unaccountable, you know, everything like that to then you have to be roommates with women and children. It's a totally different lifestyle. And um for someone like myself, I'm a pretty eccentric and uh you know, kind of out there person. I I don't have a regular sleep schedule. I'm awake all night. I'm asleep all day. Um you know, and my sleep schedule's moving around all the time. I I like to go out on drives all the time. The idea of like, you know, my wife sending me out the door. Okay, be home by 10:00. You know, call me and tell me where you're going or, you know, I go on a trip, I got to get the car seats and buy all the plane tickets and stuff like that. Uh, you know, it's kind of cramping my style. So, I'm trying to get over that, I guess. But that's maturing. Yeah, I think you should probably mature on that point. I mean, what? Yeah, I know. You got to tell me. I know. I want to go for drives like that. That would be something. I mean if you are do you attend the mass? I do. Uh like do you go every Sunday? I do. Okay. So you're like a committed Catholic then obviously like you know the perspectives on family. I mean I I personally and this would be me lecturing. But I just feel like you really have no idea who you are until you start a family. And whether that means just marriage some people who are struggling to have children. Okay fine. But there's such a a growth that happens because of that that I think it informs your beliefs in so many ways. is. And I think that was a huge turning point for me. Like I wonder if I had been pressed with everything that happened last year. If I didn't have like the unshaken faith and my family, what would I have done? And sometimes when I see the things that you say, I do think, okay, he doesn't take into account family. It's just Nick. Nick is in his own world, which can be, I think, a quite selfish perspective, which is fine. That's what you're saying. You like being selfish is another way to say what you just said. like being selfish and I don't want to give of myself to somebody else. But I I also think there's something selfless involved which is to say I could go and start a family and drag them into a world of mine which is pretty chaotic, you know? I mean, is is this really um the kind of a lifestyle if if I'm banned on everything and I can't make a living, I'm banned from banking, I'm banned from credit card processing, I'm getting docks, people are showing up to my house trying to kill me, things like that. Uh and what's more, I mean, let's also get, you know, I I also don't appreciate the lecture. You don't know me, you know, so I know you're married. I know you're older than me, but you don't know me. You don't know my life. You don't know my situation. And I don't think you're in a position to give me advice, especially as a woman. Honestly, I don't think women, you know, this is something in the rightwing. We say we're anti-feminist and then women go around telling men what to do who are not their husbands. And you know, I don't really buy into that ideologically. But that's besides the point. You know, my life has been tumultuous from the very beginning. From the time I turned 18, people were coming from my neck and trying to get me. And I was kicked out of college. And then, you know, once you're branded as an anti-semite before it became cool or popular, can't get a job, can't make a living, get banned from PayPal, all this kind of stuff. Um, you know, that's a very difficult environment to try to have a dating life. You know, what do I do? I go out on Tinder. I go to a bar and I say, "Hey, I'm a neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes that the ADL is writing articles about every day. I'm going to start a dating profile on Tinder. People are going to screenshot that, mess with me in all kinds of ways. It's a very difficult predicament actually for me because I took on basically a huge sacrifice at the beginning and I don't know that you really appreciate that enough. I think that you're somebody who, you know, you had a career in politics for as long as I was fighting a battle. You were at Daily Wire with a contract. You're at Turning Point. You're making good money. You're doing book deals. You're you're part of this thing that I'm criticizing and paying a very heavy price for at a time when no one's saying those things. when it's very unpopular. And it's not to say that I'm a victim, you know, because I did it willingly and I love it and I would do it again. But it is to say that, you know, you and I have lived very different lives. And, you know, it's easy, I think, for you to say you had your husband, have your kids, you're you got your ducks in a row, made quite a bit of money, then you discovered the truth, and then you went out on a limb. And it's not to say you didn't make sacrifices and it wasn't a risk, and it paid off. You're doing great now, and I congratulate you. But with me, there was no calculation. I mean, I almost want to say, I was 17. What's your excuse? I was 17 and I woke up and I went balls to the wall. Bucket of ice cold water, as you say. I made a lot of enemies. And maybe that wasn't wise. Um, you know, but I told the truth and I took on extremely heavy cost for my personal life. It it basically has made it so that I can't have a personal life. I don't even have many friends. Forget about, you know, dating women. I can't even really have a lot of male friends because there's such an incentive to betray me, to turn your back on me. Uh because there are people that are being paid to attack me all the time on Twitter for information about me, things like that. So, um you know, it's something like everything else that I'm figuring out one step at a time, just like my show and you know, when I get banned from something, you know, whether or not I'll be able to have a family and kids and what that'll look like. But I mean, it's a little bit it's a little more complicated, I think, than maybe you understand. I feel like you just got super triggered by me just saying something so casual. What was that about? See, I don't appreciate a woman. You're like, "You're a woman. Don't just like I was just having a conversation with you just being like, "Hey, like you you there's a lot of growth that comes from when you start a family. Like that's like a that's a pretty cool thing to do." And I feel like you got pretty triggered there and got like a little upset. I don't know what I did there. I don't I don't like that you say triggered. I'm Well, you were a little bit triggered. I'm being candid. I'm being candid with you. but saying, "Oh, a woman just should." It's like, "Okay, you're talking about my personal life." You're talking about my personal life. We're having a conversation. I talked to a tons of people about their personal lives. Like, why do you feel like you like this is that wasn't a line of attack, Nick. I know it wasn't a line of attack. So, why you kind of responded like you were just attacked? Because you're you're giving me this lecture, giving me this advice about things and telling me, you know, you don't know who you are and all this kind of stuff. I said that when people start families, it it does commute your perspectives a lot. And sometimes when I see these clips of you floating around or certain things that you do or say it does it does Yeah. Well, you admitted you were selfish. You said I don't want to. What is the what what are you talking about? You just said that the reason that you didn't want to have a family when I asked the question or didn't start a family. You said was because I like to drive alone in my car. I don't really want to have to come home and have to deal with roommates as you referred to children, a wife. You want to stay selfish. You want to, you know, you want to be in your own world. That's a fair assessment of I said that in terms of my in my development, I'm trying to get over some of those aspects. That is selfish, right? I mean, that is that fair assessment. That's a judgmental. I think that's a judgmental selfish. You want to spend time with yourself. You don't want to invite people into your space. I think I used that word exactly as it should be used. Well, and I'm explaining why there's there's multiple aspects to it, too. It's not just a simple That's fine. acting like I tried to offend you when I just to use I definitely did not try to offend you when I was asking you about family. You ask people about themselves. That's for the same reason that I asked you about what you were up to in high school and what your priorities were, what you were doing in college. It's because it's a natural point. You're 26 years old. People are going to ask you, okay, you have all these perspectives. You're saying people a very natural transition. and you're talking about the fact that you don't believe people uh should interraially marry. Correct. I think it's pretty fair to then move on to the discussion and ask you about marriage. There was wasn't some like trap there. Yeah. No, and I don't I don't think that's my issue with it. But I don't I don't think I got triggered. I think I gave you a real response. So, well, you were like, "Listen, woman, don't ask me what I'm doing." I didn't say listen. Look, I happen to believe that uh I don't like women telling me what to do in general. I didn't tell you what to do. I'm just I said that when you get married, you said you wanted to get married. You said you're giving me a lecture. You said may sound like a lecture because I'm I'm sounding like an old-timer here, but I didn't tell you what to do. Like if you're giving a lecture on any topic, hey, this is what's great about marriage. I didn't say, "Nick, you need to get married right now." I just feel like it's pointed. I feel like a lot of these questions are pointed. But maybe that's just me and I'm imagining genuinely you're imagining it. I don't think anybody watching that is going to be like that was a setup after he talked about interracial marriage for her to ask him his perspectives on his own life and what if he's dating people to be honest if you if you want me to psycho analyze that I feel well I don't but feel free yeah I I feel free thanks I feel like you got I do think you got a little bit triggered there and I think that at towards the end of that triggering you kind of got to the the main gist that because of your life, it's difficult for you to actually establish real world connections with people because there is the Nick Fuentes caricature and there's probably a little bit of pressure for you to maintain the Nick Fuentes caricature. I don't know that you feel that you can have, you know, go out in the real world and have friends and go out in the real world and like you just said, I can't really get on Tinder and be like, I'm Nick Fuentes. Have somebody screenshot it and then it becomes a thing and people are making fun of you. Like I think that's a real understandable answer, but I don't think you had to knife me to get to it. I didn't knife you. Why didn't I knife you? You were just like, we'll have to play it back. But what did he say? Like he was like, I don't appreciate a woman telling me just like, dude, chill. It's a It's a freaking conversation. Relax. Like was not like demanding you go get married tomorrow. I'm just saying I think if you get married, a lot of your perspectives are going to be a little bit different. Especially having a kid just completely changes the game again. It's like a whole another level. And you know, family's good. I don't think I got triggered, but a little bit. Maybe. Okay. So, any questions that you want to ask me since you talk so much trash and you're finally face to face with Candace? Honestly, I'm an open book, so you can ask me anything. You know, it was it is really cool meeting you because I've seen you around forever and I am a fan, believe it or not. Is that you being a fan? These clips, is that you being a fan? I am, but you know, but look, I'm I have a lot of strong feelings. I'm very opinionated, you know, but I but I look, I think I give you your due as well. And if you watch all the clips, I do say a lot of nice things about you. So, um, no, but I really am. I think that you're tough. I think that you're real. I think that you're you're a little um koi. You know, you could be a little koi and you could be a little passive aggressive, but I kind of like that. I kind of like this when you were debating that Rabbi Barlay, you kind of had this energy like I'm going to talk to your manager. You know, you kind of had this like I can be a Karen sometimes. You got this like excuse me. Um I think I said the dressing on the side kind of like energy. So fair. So I live for that. That's why I'm a stand. That was honestly that was the show that apparently you talked about me where I think people started thinking that there was some coordination happening and the clip was very funny by the way. Yeah. So I mean look I I'm a little bit of a mixed bag. I hope you don't think I'm just heaping trash trash upon you. I mean, keeping dumpsters on you. If you were, you're allowed to. It's a free country. I think people should stop being so fearful to have a disagreement. Like I said, I'm not afraid to sit down with somebody who says I'm a racist or I'm an anti-semite or I'm this and that. That I truly do believe that the best idea wins. So, I think people are going to listen to this and you're going to say, "This is why I don't think people should interraially marry." And some people are going to agree with that and they have a right to marry who they want to. And I'm going to say, "I have I'm having the opposite experience." And let people make up their minds. You're not you're not pushing for legislation. We probably would you'd be an enemy of me if you were pushing for, you know, misogynation laws to be put back into place, but I just don't I don't really understand why they've kind of turned you into Lord Voldemort. Yeah, I know. I mean, what do you think? Do you Let me ask you a selfish question. What do you think about me meeting me? What's your impression? Do you think I'm a evil person or I don't think you're evil. I think there you're asking me. So, I am asking that's all fair game. If I was to just kind of analyze my own correspondence with you, I think that when you sense that somebody is potentially going to hurt you because you got so burned when you were 18 years old, you go on the attack and unnecessarily. I just think that that is kind of your default position where it's like, well, I just got to say f you to this person and whatever, whatever. And that's why I go back to if you wanted to come on the show, you could have just asked. Like, I don't respond to empty groper accounts. We had established communication over something legal. should have been like, "Hey, Candace, I've been watching your stuff. Like, it'd be cool if we could do a collab." And I would have been like, "Yeah, definitely. Let's do it." Or I would have said, "Oh, not right now. I need to wait until, but hit me back up or whatever." I think because you got kind of pigeonholed, which is nec necessarily happened because you got banned everywhere. Like, obviously, you're just going to be like in the pocket of Cozy TV. Um, and getting that feedback from other gropers, what I don't know how cozy TV works. uh that sometimes you can internet a little too hard and everybody's guilty of that. Like you can be so entrenched in the comments that you kind of think that this is the perspective and this is why somebody's doing it. And I I think that you assign evil sometimes where there really is just disagreement and that you also feel like the world owes you something for being canceled first. Uh I didn't do it to you. I had no idea it was done to you while I was at the Daily Wire. I had no idea it was done to you. Truly, and I'm saying this, it was that conversation you had with Jeremy Boring that made me aware of your story and I thought it was crappy. So, I was being sincere when I said to Aiden Ross that he needs to decide what he wants to do now because people didn't know. No one was trying to like they're just like, "I don't know who Nick Quentes is. Everybody says his white supremacist." Like, I'm not going to just suddenly pick up the phone and and try to learn everything about this guy. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't impact my life. Um, and I don't think the world owes you anything. It happened to you for a reason and just you got to just try to make the best of it, you know. Yeah. No, and I agree. And I um you know I think that's a fair criticism in the sense that um you know at that time a year ago when you said you know you weren't going to have me on for this or that reason I'm I'm being honest with you I didn't believe you and I you know not to relitigate the whole thing but that's why it made me so mad. I felt like you weren't being forthcoming. I felt like you were avoiding me and making excuses. And um and you're right you know in my whole career I've been doing this eight and a half years now or something like that. That has been the repeated default is just getting stabbed in the back, getting thrown under the bus, people sneak dissing me, doing the bare minimum. You know, like Dave Smith, he did a show with me and then wouldn't call me Hitler. And then he's like, you know, this guy, you know, he felt like I owed him something. All I did was disagree with him and he said, you know, but I stuck up for this kid. It's like, well, you did a show with me and you didn't call me Hitler. I feel like you are entitled to honest and dignified treatment. So that that's sort of where I'm coming from. But um you know as two people from different worlds and our worlds are colliding. You know you from Daily Wire, me from the underground from Cozy, we do have I think these misunderstandings and miscommunications and it's good that you know we could sit down and speak honestly about it and uh you know be able to level with each other. Yeah. I think and just in closing here just I want to challenge people that if you think somebody is the most evil person in the world man just have the conversation. And like it's pretty simple to sit down and have a conversation and uh not to allow ourselves to think that people are irredeemable when you don't even know their back. So lesson learned. I got to stop here cuz uh baby is hungry. So up there. Absolutely. All right. Where is he? Bring them. [Music]