Insights from a Star-Studded Roundtable

Hi and welcome to Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter Actors. I'm Stephen Galloway and I'd like to welcome Adam Sandler. Yes sir. Robert De Niro, Adam Driver, Tom Hanks, Jamie Foxx, and Shia LaBeouf. Thanks so much for being here. I'm sure you know this anecdote. Dying is easy. Comedy is hard. True or false? Comedy is more difficult, yes. I can't do what Billy Crystal does, Eddie Murphy, you, Adam. But I can do other things. I mean, I like to think that I work in, say, in Marty's movies, just situations that are funny in and of themselves, which is like life, you know. There are so many situations we see. We're in a situation all of a sudden, you say, I wish we could have filmed this, or this situation is so crazy, you know, but it's real. Is there anything in real life you wish you could have filmed or that you've then brought into a role? No, I mean, the only thing, say, with Marty Scorsese, working with him, is that you get closer to saying that whatever you want to do, you can actually try and do it. And... and maybe it'll happen, maybe it'll work. So if you had an idea of something, you say, let me just try that. I say, Marty, let's just try it, you never know. And so it's something, with some directors, you don't even go there. You say it's too much work to even attempt to bring it up to them. With Marty, we'll do it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So that's a great feeling of freedom. It's great. Adam, you come from comedy. Comedy or dying. Yes, yes. Which one's easier? You know, if you have something that either way, something you're confident with, something that seems like you believe in it, I think it's the same feeling. If you believe in a joke, if you believe in a... a dramatic scene, you go in there with the same approach, I would think, right, Jamie? Here's the thing, comedy is a natural thing. Like, I just told him, I was watching him in the comedy store when I was 18 years old, sneaking in the comedy store, watching him go up when it was like Titans, it was rock, it was Eddie working out, you know, shit with it. I remember Eddie had on like this yellow. Fucking Century 21 jacket. He's working on these jokes and somebody's like, yo, what's up with that Century 21 jacket? And then you watch Eddie, like, he said, oh, whatever, I'll crush you with my wallet. And then everybody started laughing. So it's interesting. When I look at everybody here, you know, it's this, it's this, it's respect, and then I look at Adam, I'm like, oh, shit. Before he even said anything, I'm already laughing. So that's one of the first ingredients is that when you have this natural... thing of watching him on his guitar at 1.30 in the morning doing a bit that he's so dedicated to it, motherfuckers is like, oh, he's, you know, shit. So that's the first ingredient, right? That's correct. And then the second ingredient is, as comedians, you get a light. Like you get that lift off, that launch where everything that you're saying is funny. It's hilarious. Like people are giving you that light. I think it only becomes difficult once you reach that. Top of comedic level. Now people are expecting, you know, the world. You know, when I go talk to Eddie, I was at Eddie's house. He's talking about getting back into stand-up. But he's like, how do, you know, I said, well, Eddie, if you want to get into it, I could help you. First thing you gotta do, you gotta fix your house. He's like, what you mean? I said, your house is too. Too perfect. All your, you're just too much. You got the candles scented and all that shit. I said, Eddie, at my crib, I have shit at my house that doesn't work on purpose. So I stay funny. I got this little carpet that's in the kitchen. It's sort of ruffled up. And I got a bathroom where you turn on the faucet and it sprays out. And my daughter's like, why don't you fix it? I said, I feel like if I fix all this shit, I won't be funny. So it's like, you have to have that. And then when he talked about the situation, Like when we're watching, you know, Robert De Niro, the situation that you provide for him makes it all the way funny. Does that make sense? Because now, once you have the ability to be funny, you need the situation in order for it to make... ...sense. Because if not, like this is the worst thing in the world when the director goes like, Okay, now just do your thing. Ooh. Yeah, yeah. And now you, you know, fucking... Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing your shit and then when you watch it, you're like, I'm doing my shit but it doesn't make sense. So that's the part when he says... Do they only say that in comedy or do they say it in drama too? Yeah, I would say they all say, have fun with it, commit to it. Can you be funny if you grew up with a built-in swimming pool in your backyard? I don't think you can. If you grew up being able to swim... Anytime you wanted to, you experienced none of the shortcomings of a life that you'd turn into self-deprecation. That's right. It's tough. Can you play tragedy though if you grow up, if you have it easy? Doesn't it all come from some inner pain, angst? Everybody's... Yeah! Sure, you bet. Look, it's like Bertolt Brecht, man. The whole thing is a struggle, and there's where you find your triumph. You hear the thing about that will kill us all at some point, is it's 3 o'clock in the morning, and you have to go to bed. have something very specifically that you know, you've known for months you're gonna act this beat with this scene and it's three o'clock in the morning and could be anything from rainbirds going off to you know, taxi cab drivers or something like that honking horns and it's like all right the movie is now upon your shoulders. Don't fuck this up. And then they sit back and you wait and you got to go there man. You just gotta... tragedy, comedy. Is there a moment you can think of where that's just a ten-second... It happens ten times a... 10 times a week sometimes, you know, where it's everybody is kind of, everybody's making the same movie you are, you know, the crew, the teamsters, everybody knows that, oh, today's the scene you're going to, you know, oh, wow, this is going to be a bill of luck. We shut down the whole street for this, you know. All right, 11 o'clock. Okay, we're ready for a rehearsal. Hi, please give me a gun so I can shoot myself in the hip and not have to do this movie anymore. You played a comedian in the movie Sally Field. Oh, punchline. Hey, the Safdie brothers told me to tell you that they love Punchline. Is that right? They watch Punchline a lot. Playing a guy who's supposed to be funny, the only way to do that was to go out and develop funny material. And I probably did six appearances of something where all I really did was jump up and down on a trampoline. I had no sense of anything. But you were, because I saw you training. I got it. I put it together. I saw you training. I was a young comedian at the comic strip. And you used to come in and go up there with, and Barry Sobel used to come. Yeah, yeah, Barry and I, we ended up, and I ended up after a while. Was he good? Not that night, not if you saw me at the comic school. No, I saw you a couple times, and you were good. You came up right away where the comedians were mad that you were calm on stage and cool, and you were being yourself. It took a while to get there. The best I can describe it is you just have to go there. When I was in junior college taking acting classes, and there's ten of us there, and we've all been there. into the American Conservatory Theater performances of certain things. We usually look at comedies going, oh yes, that's very funny. Oh, I appreciate the work behind that joke. But the assignment for one day was, okay, on Wednesday everybody's gonna come and you're gonna be funny, and you're gonna make each other laugh. And it was stone, nothing. No one could do anything funny because that was the task at hand. So comedy is hard because you know instantaneously whether or not you're, you know, you're. soup is good food. Adam, you were in the military. See? You're right away. These issues of acting and drama and dying or comedy, do they seem trivial in comparison? Well, I mean, one, the stakes you're pretending are life and death, and the other, they kind of are. But the way, the process in which you work on them is the exact same. It's a group of people trying to accomplish a mission that's bigger than any one person, and you have a role, and you have to know your role. Within a gun team, you're only as good as the people that are there with you. There's someone leading it, and when they know what they're doing, what you're doing feels active and relevant and exciting, and when they don't, it feels like a waste of resources and dangerous. You're just so aware that you're one part of a bigger picture. How did you switch from being a Marine to being an actor? I was interested in it before being in the military. then when you get in the military, you get out, you kind of have all this false confidence that civilian problems will be small in comparison, which is an illusion. But then I was lucky enough to get into an acting school and learned about acting and plays and a process. Then I was lucky. enough to work. Have you ever felt, Char, that there's a life and death moment in acting where your whole life depends on you pulling this off? Yes. Which one? Every time. It feels like your neck's on the chopping block every time. How do you get past that anxiety? Prep hard. Yeah. It's like boxing. It's just like boxing. Guys train really hard to go put their neck on the line. The military, but it feels life and death to me. Yeah, so prep hard, determination. I went last year to the Harry Ransom Center. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's the archive of the University of Texas, which has great papers. And there are Bob's papers, and to actually see your handwriting on, you know, the Raging Bull script. And it was amazing because your scripts are covered with notes. What was the toughest character you actually had to prepare for? They're all different, depends. Some are harder in some ways than others. Raging Bull, because of the weight and all that, and the mission, just the physical stuff. Awakenings, there's a lot of physical stuff too, and studying how my character behaved and what his affliction was. And then Raging Bull, I read the book. Somebody handed me the book, one of the authors, and I read it while I was doing Once Upon a Time. in 1900 with Bertolucci, and I called Marty from Italy, and I said, you know, the book's not great literature, but it's got a lot of heart, and I kind of want to do certain things. I remember I used to see Jake LaMotta. He'd work in a kind of a strip place right on 7th Avenue in the 40s. He'd be standing right out there near the sidewalk, and he was overweight and this and that. I said, Jesus, look what happened to him from then on. And I thought just the graphic... difference of being out of shape and then being a young fighter really that was interesting to me I thought I'd like to see if I could really just gain that weight actually and and do it so that was my interest in it Marty had his reasons and both of us just come together on the project and yeah so. Have any of you had a dream project that you've taken to a director or another act and said you must do this? Honey Boy was your project. You wrote it. Yeah. By the way, if you haven't seen it, it's terrific. It's unbelievable. Thank you. And the man is incredible. So, who did you want to do it with you? My back was against the wall. I was nuclear at this point, so it wasn't like a dream project. It felt like survival. Like there was no other way to go. I didn't have a lot of people talking to me. I was in a mental institution, so it wasn't like, oh, this is my dream project. I'd like to explore this. It was like my back's against the wall. This is the craft that I love and I can't do it anymore. And I also had a doctor who was pushing me to explore these dirty parts and write it down. So it wasn't like a dream project, it felt more like necessity, like survival, like something different. You said you're in a mental institution. I don't want to ask you two personal questions, but is there anything you discovered there that's been helpful for your acting? Yeah, empathy for my father. You know, who was always the biggest villain in my life, you know? And I think if you can empathize with the biggest villain in your life and sort of scrape some of these shadows, it makes you lighter and freer. I don't think I was leading with love and my life has changed. You may or may not attest, but I feel like when you lead with lightness and love, you can get to the heavy easier, you know? It's much easier, it's much more accessible. Like, anger and the rough shit is very easy. You know, it's the other stuff that feels quite difficult. You know, getting an honest laugh is very hard. I tell ya, when I have to laugh in a movie, I can't do that. Really? It's tough. What do you mean, like laugh? If my character's supposed to have a genuine laughing moment, I'd rather get genuine anything else. I'm always excited. Is it easy for you to cry? You had that big moment in Uncut Gems where you're really emotional. Was that easier than laughing? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not great at crying. What are you great at? I'm not sure yet. I don't even think I should be at this stage. Bullshit. Yeah, crying when it's written in a script and then he breaks down and this, that kind of, that really gets me tense for a while. You had a massive one in Marriage Story. Every time I see that performance. of somebody breaking down, I'm like, oh man, that's incredible. How did you get to that point? It's not something you push for. You don't push for emotion. It either happens or it doesn't. You can't anticipate it or nothing will happen. But there's a lot of things in that instance that are supporting you. The script is so good and it's well written. If it was badly written, there's only one way to do it. If it's well written, the language is so rich that every time you say it, it opens up an idea. For something else and because Noah has structured, and Adam knows this from working with Noah and Meyerowitz, the text is the text and I find that incredibly freeing because your intention could be anything. And if you're with another actor as Scarlet in that instance and the set, Noah is giving you another piece of information that maybe you hadn't thought of before, or the line, or you've gotten in a fight with your wife before the scene starts, or maybe nothing, maybe you're having a good moment before. This scene starts, it just opens up your imagination of a different way of reading it. You know, he's taken basically a four-month run of a play and condensed it to two days. You know, so I think that's easier. If it's just having emotion, I don't think I can do that. Do you take that emotion home with you? I don't think so. I mean, I don't know. It's like a release after it's done. Take the exhaustion home. No. Yeah. No, I mean, it's a release. It's like you did that, that's there, take a break, come back. Sometimes though there is a residual something that you have to be aware of. For you too, Tom? There is a, it's a physiological process that It incorporates your emotions in the sinews of your body. Funny, laughing and weeping are two very physical acts. You know, they're not up here. I mean, when I cry, man, my face turns into rubber. You know, you bend over into some kind of thing. And you can only get there if literally the text takes you there. And there's this great commonality of moments like that in which, like I said earlier, everybody's making the movie, and everybody knows that tonight or this day is going to be an emotional thing. And your job is to forget that it's on a schedule. and just live it and be it and don't, you can't push it. It actually has to come out. Well, I'm just emotional. I'm always crying. Really? I cry for everything. That's great. I don't know, but I'll be crying about stuff that really my accountant just called me and said, you don't have, you tried to buy a private plane and she was like, fuck, run the scene. I was like, you know, I mean. I should be going through life. It all gets us all. Yeah, it should be going on in my life. It just ruins the game. Shit is going on in my life, so I'm easy. I cry easy. What's been your toughest moment? I think the toughest thing being a comedian is watching other comedians blow. Like, Eddie blew up. Oh, shit. You know? And then Martin. So I'm like, okay, where's my thing? But then you see that they've touched all of the comic bases. I remember going in and reading for Russell Simmons. Uh-huh. For some... for some comedy and I was doing my thing and he was going, that's Eddie. That's Martin, that's Martin, that's Martin. No, that's Rock, that's Rock. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And he was, no, I was just saying, you sound like Chris Rock, you sound like Eddie. So that was tough because I was like, damn, I don't have nowhere to go, right? And then like, you know, this cool thing where Oliver Stone opened up, it was, you know, this Any Given Sunday thing, which was more dramatic. And so I don't know if that's a tough. But it was just like, man, let me go get with him. And it was an incredible... It opened up a whole other thing. And then the tough part was getting back to being funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah, because, like, you know, like, the young folks, they see me like, oh, here's this dude using Django. Right, right, right. And now I'm doing jokes. I'm like, why Django being funny like that? So it's like, so now I have to try to get back to... What about you? Did you find that hard too often? I've done so many comedies. I have so many comedies on TV. I don't have a hard time getting back into that. People... When I get to do something like this, like Uncut Gems, and I haven't done that many dramas. Maybe I've done like six or seven over 30 years'worth. I'm always excited doing them. It's a different excitement for me because I'm not sure of myself. You know, when you do comedies, you kind of, I mean, you grew up doing them. Shia grew up as a kid being in comedies. It's a different, lighter feel on the set. It's exciting. There's nothing better. for a comedian then going home and go, oh, I think we killed that scene. That's gonna be funny. That's how the audience is gonna like that. But this, a drama man getting it right and feeling like you gave it your all and that excitement of reading a script and going, oh, that scene's going to be incredible. Then actually shooting it and it comes out the way you want it to, or maybe not exactly the way you want it to, but something happened big for you. That's as good as it gets. Are you hard on yourself when it doesn't come out that way? Do you go ahead and torch yourself? Oh my God. There's something great written that I don't think I got to where I was supposed to get. I'm really mad at myself. You too? Yeah. Yeah, you're disappointed. The only thing is that, like you were saying, you don't push for anything. I mean, I don't. If you push, you're not going to get it. So you just have to take what comes and try and find ways to get there, but you just can't be anxious about it. It's like the thing, the actor, he can't remember his lines, so he can't act anymore. He's working in the garage and somebody, an actor, a director comes over and says, listen, I just want you to say, Hark, I hear the cannon roar in the third act. So I said, okay, so I'll go do it. He goes, rehearse, rehearse. And then at home, he's working, Hark, I hear the cannon roar. Hark, I hear the cannon roar. Hark, I hear the cannon roar. Every variation, every way, he's ready, the third act, ready to go after five weeks rehearsal. He goes backstage, he's ready. The first act goes, no problem. He's waiting. Hark, I hear the cannon roar. I hear the cannon roar. Second act, everything, blah, blah, blah. Fine. Third act. He's there backstage. And the stage manager comes, okay, ready? And he's hearing the play out there. Boom. Go on. He's going, I'm saying, Hark the, hark the, the Kenwa, hark the, the Kenwa. Then you hear a bang. Turns around. What the fuck was that? Are you self-critical? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think that you ever get over, because in a way you kind of know what your potential is. more than anybody else in a sense. I have a lot of regret often when you leave a set you can't help but think about it. Obviously it's film, so film is forever, so you never get a chance to go back and do it again. I feel like that's the thing about acting, is that regardless of how often you do it or how long you do it, you never figure it out. Do you prefer theatre because of that? I've learned from theatre in that. Always at the end of a four-month run of a play, you're always the last performer. It's always the best one. And you're like, okay, now I have a better sense of what I want to do and go back. So I know that there's no right answer. There's no right way to play a scene. That's my part of it. I like the making of it. And it's someone else's responsibility to make the choice of what is the best version of it. But I know that there's no right way. And you would just have to feel comfortable with failing. And you either get easier on yourself, I think, about like, okay, then I'll just let it go or you don't. But I don't think you will you'll ever figure that out why so I think people keep doing it I think, but I don't know. I'm looking at you Tom. Are you self critical? Do you go home and drive? There have been too many times where I thought I really cracked something over the fence. And then I saw it and I said, well, that is just, that's as exciting as closing door. And there's other times that I didn't, all I could do was stumble around a day. And it's fantastic. And there's no, it's odd, you almost have no control. For me, it has come down to whether or not the procedure and the behavior that was asked of me. of you is authentic. And if it is, then you gotta leave it up to serendipity. And those fabulous people that are willing to look at your, every eyebrow and pore on your face and decide what's gonna be the best take or what's gonna end up being in the movie. Do you know when it's directed? I would even say in a way it's not even your job, really. I mean, I think it's not your job to feel anything. It's the audience's job. And so it. I obviously have been thinking about something for a long time and you finally get there and do it. You want to feel something just because you feel like you put the effort in. But it's not really my responsibility to feel something. It's to telegraph that something is being felt. But it's hard to reconcile that, to not feel like you got there and you actually, it feels like it's going to be more authentic. But to your point, you could be having all the feeling you want, but no one is feeling anything. And your job is to tell the story, not have a feeling in front of people. When we were doing Captain Phillips and we were in this lifeboat, the script had all these great moments where Rich Phillips looked through the porthole of the lifeboat as the sun was going down and was thinking of his family at home and whether or not he was going to see them. So you could sit around in Malta, you know, where we were shooting, oh, that's going to be a powerful moment because I'm going to line up in the porthole and it's just going to be like this. You know, it's going to be really great. Then you go to work and there is no porthole in the lifeboat. both. So you gotta like take away, it's almost so you cannot prepare, you can only just be there. The movie process, it's a little bit different if you know what I mean. It's like... You mean it's in the theater? Just not even that. Just like when I was on Any Given Sunday, I remember Oliver Stone, when I first auditioned, was like, you're horrible when I audition. And I was like, what? Because I was a television... I'm a television actor, so everything I did was loud. Yeah, so you better understand this with the football in the air, man. And he was like, get the fuck out of here. Oliver can be tough. Oliver can be tough. No, but I learned from that toughness, meaning when he finally decided to make The decision for me to be the lead, he still would grill me. He said, that's not it. That's not it. That's not it. I worked with Quentin Tarantino, and I watched an actor struggle because the set was like, it was heavy. I mean, you had You had Samuel Jackson here. You had Leo. I mean it was some juggernauts, you know, come on motherfucker say that shit Dude's trying to say come on. Come on. Yeah, and the guy was trying to get his line And I watched Quentin Tarantino go to mountain everything's fine I was like, damn, this shit ain't gonna work out, right? But then you see the movie. Boom. Swing, swing, swing, swing. I said, God damn. And Quentin said, all I need is one. Even working with Kristoff, Kristoff watching him work, I learned a little more about movie. I watched him fold a paper. This motherfucker wrote on a thing and was just supposed to put it in his pocket. It seemed like it took him forever to do it. He was like... And he had, it was nothing else existed but that. Moment, right? Christoph Waltz's process wasn't that I'm going to have all of these things memorized and do all of these things at once. He would give you these incredible, calm yourselves gentlemen I, one more time, calm yourselves gentlemen I am but a weary traveler. And we were watching it and Leo was like. I said Leo you think you got it? He's got something powerful. Just keep watching, some shit is going on. And you see all these little bits of things, and then all of a sudden in the movie, boom. Calm yourself, gentlemen. I was like, oh shit. And then I'd like to thank the Academy. I like that about Oliver because you hear so many stories about people who've worked with him. Who, Shai, has most intimidated you that you've worked with and who have you learned from the most? Everyone's intimidated by Oliver, right? Yeah, different. Not intimidated. He would never look me in the eyes. He always looked just above my eye, under the eyelid. Oh! Really? Yeah. Why? It's just his way. Maybe just with me. But probably being around Hardy. Hardy's a bit of a gorilla on the set. Tom Hardy. Yeah, probably. I was most intimidated by him. What do you mean, a bit of a gorilla? Well, he runs the set. You know, he pees in the corners. It's his set. You know it when you get there. Yeah. Mmm. Don't feel like a shared space, feels like his space. And you know, he's a very good actor. And also super loving, but on a set, you're in his church. Who has taught you the most? Bob. Really? Yeah, definitely. I don't know if I really like that, I'm not surprised. We can all just be quiet. We have some great actors around this table, let's face it. And what did he teach you? Oh, well, Through the performances, I watched him reveal himself and be a presenter of a soul and explore who he was through the work. And I've always just, he made it feel sacred to me. So it felt like he lifted the craft into something that felt like a, it's wild to hear you say you're not religious, but I know you're spiritual and I don't have to ask you because I watched the work and I can feel it. So I'd say, and not to, you know. kiss ass, but through the work, having a guy to look towards. Are you intimidated by anyone? Well, there's always somebody, I guess. I don't know. Now I know. But as you get older, you don't want to be intimidated by anybody who shouldn't intimidate you. We're in a political situation now. We have the best example of that. feel that you must stand up to this kind of person, not to make a speech about this here, but it's necessary to stand up and not... Because people are nonplussed. It's like they say, did this guy just do that? He did it. I don't even know how to react to that because I'm like, that's not within my world of common sense or right and wrong or what's being fair. So I have to find a way. I just have to... You've got to push him back. You've got to... You gotta snuff him out. You gotta get rid of him. He's, you know, you gotta deal with it. But people are so nonplussed by this behavior. And that's how crazy people like him can get even further. Imagine him getting a second term. He'll want, he's even said, I want to be president for life. He joked about it. And so then he'll go for that. He'll pardon himself. He'll do anything. I thought in the beginning, you know, well, you know, he's a New Yorker. Maybe he's got common sense somewhere in there. He's a liberal, actually, supposedly. But then, you know, after he just got worse and worse and worse and worse. And we've got to get rid of him. Adam, should Axis be political? I'm not great at that. I listen to Bob talk and I go, okay. I listen to that. My conviction is not great. I do believe in my way of being. I just try to... Be as good of a person I can be and try to conduct myself a certain way. I don't think I always do that right, but when it comes to me discussing politics, I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to go at it. It's an interesting thing because it's actually not politics. What he's talking about is me letting my kids watch someone who is supposed to be from the mayor, whatever, they're supposed to be different. He's not talking about policy. He's talking about the human nature of things. And so we should all have an opportunity to say or not say, but I got kids, so I got to tell my kids, I say, hey, listen, this is not the way things are supposed to be when it comes to the human nature of it. Because when you do ascend to these levels of running things, we look to that. Look, all of what we've gone through in our Lives as American in politics, we were always able to look at that office and say, that's something to aspire to be and to be like. If I can't let my kids listen to that person talk, then that's where we're off. So it's not actually politics. There's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I'm like this. You can have a different, you can have a disagreement with me about policy. We can both do that, because I got good old boyfriends that are, that are... Red State guys, and I got Democrat friends. I'm a Democrat, but I'm in all of those circles because I'm always performing. You know what I'm saying? And quietly, even if we disagree, there's always that point of being a man, being nice, being kind. And so to his point, when you see something where a person is, bless you, when a person is just yo, you don't have to dance in the end zone with everybody. God bless you again. I'm sorry. God bless you. But I think that's what it is. And then we all get nervous. You know, we get nervous because, well, what's, what are people going to say about me? But then, if we don't have someone saying something, bless you again. Man, I don't know where that came from. Bless you again. It's all good. But if you don't have someone's... No, I don't got it. Go ahead. But you know what I'm saying? So it's like, um... Mm-hmm. It's not politics. It's human beings. It's like, I know... Look, I... I... I could share this story. I did a gig for Jerry Jones, who's... I'm a cowboy, huge cowboy fan. And I had to perform for the, uh... for the owners in the NFL. And Jerry Jones'son-in-law said, you know what I'm gonna do here? I have to perform for, you know, some good old boys. And I said, don't worry about it. I'm good. I'm from Texas. I think I'll be good. So the first thing I sung was George Strait. And they were like, oh, man. Next thing you know, by the end of the night, I had everybody singing Gold Digger and Blame It On You. I got Colin Powell singing it. But I got a chance to speak with George Bush. I'm this close. And I was like, we spoke? And of course, we all had our differences. But I asked him something. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this story. I said, would you ever say anything disheartening about President Obama? And you know what he said? No, I wouldn't. It's too hard of a job. I learned so much. I would never knock his legs out from under him because I know what it is. And then I watched him and his kids play with Obama's kids. That's what it's about. You know, if we're taking it there, that's what it's about. So it's a matter of everybody has something that they want to say, but we shouldn't be afraid to say it. You're not going to be—we should just say, hey, man, they just think cool. So when Ellen DeGeneres went to the game with George W. Bush, do you think that's okay? Listen, it's bigger than that. When we're in... I've seen... I've been in football games where Jesse Jackson, George Bush, everybody... They're still humans. But what happens is... It's an interesting thing. When you see what media does, they always separate and make it... Something big. Ellen is sitting with George Bush, who she's known for years. It's not a big thing. Still doesn't mean she's gonna compromise what she believes in. And you don't have to do that. I think it's always been that way. Only now, it's just different because you do go like, wow, that ain't cool. Even if you felt that way, that part ain't cool. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, we shouldn't be afraid. Look. And people say, oh, he's a snobby actor, elitist. What the fuck is you talking about, man? I came from Terrell, Texas. No money, no nothing. I said, nothing snobby about me. I'm happy that I'm making my money. I said, but for me to get to a position of where I'm at right now and not say nothing? Like, what? You know, so like I said, I'm not running for office. But damn, we should be able to say whatever we want to say. When we want to see it. Does that make sense? Yes. Tom, you had a little Freudian cough going on there. I didn't know where that came from. It was a cough of agreement, what was going on. We all have... I'm going to give you three more of those. Those are freebies after that. But not everybody should be political, but every... Everybody must be principled. And we carry our principles with us 24 hours a day. It's part of the countenance. It's part of why we do what we do in the first place. It's in our choices. I have to say, one of the things I learned from the learned from the get-go as an actor in a repertory company of people you worked with. You didn't have to like those people, and you did not have to agree with those people. You didn't have to hang with those people. But you had to respect those people. You had to respect their process, and you had to respect their opinions. And the default setting, I think, for so much of everything is conflict. And what's the word I'm looking for? Cynicism. Cynicism. That's the first place I think everybody can go. So if Ellen is at a football, at a game with George W. Bush, what's the cynical take on what that is? Right. As opposed to what is the respectful take on that? You know, I'm not going to assume anybody automatically agrees with each other because they're at a Dallas Cowboys and Oakland Raiders football game. And I think that's a difference. And also, you know, kind of like political views are a dime a dozen. They're absolutely everywhere. You just played the least cynical guy maybe in history. Is it actually harder to play someone that nice than to play a villain? They're the same exact beast. Granted, Mr. Rogers is not Iago, but they have their principles and they have their... They have their mission statement. The story in the movie is really about the journalist that is very cynical about who Mr. Rogers is and finds out that he was wrong. And there's no nefarious motivation between what Fred Rogers did for a living. He viewed it as his ministry. And that's kind of like looking at some combination of Mother Teresa or somebody that is hell-bent for doing just good. the sphere of which they operate. And the cynic walks into that and says, what's your racket here? What are you trying to pull here? And if it's actually just, well, we're trying to feed the homeless people some soup so they get a hot meal once a day. Now, there's got to be something more to that. There's not. And Fred Rogers was an ordained minister, and his principle was such that everything that guided him through his daily behavior and his creative output was based on making people feel safe and a part of something bigger than they actually were in his case two and three year old kids but he never ever said the word God not in not in hundreds hundreds and hundreds of hours of television. When you explored that character, was there a darker side in him that... that actually pushed him in the other direction. There was the same dark side in him that is in any cracked vessel of humankind. There is doubt. There is a sense of failure. There is always a degree of self-loathing. There was always a question of, am I doing enough for the people that I love? Now, is that a dark side? I don't know that it's dark. Not everybody says, I'm growing tired of this game, Mr. Bond. Perhaps you'd like a tour of our installation before we feed you to the shit. sharks. I think that's a dynamic that comes about and that's, you know, Shakespeare wrote that kind of stuff left and right. But the journalist who came to talk to Mr. Rogers was paying that, no, no, no, there's something in the past and you're doing this for some reason in the future. And that's an artificial accounting that is required by somebody who is not the person themselves. Bob, when you're playing a guy who's killed people, as you just did, and it's based on a real life man, is it good? good for you personally to find the goodness in him or is that a dangerous proposition? I don't think, I mean he was a guy who happened to have seen a lot of combat in the Second World War so he was a little, he was inured to killing more than anyone, someone else. And he found himself in this world where he was a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little world that was not what he was from and fit. And he was loyal to the people that gave him love and support and respected him. And so that's how. And then he was then he had a big. conflict, which later on, not to give it away, but that was the whole thing. But I think the whole story, the story's very simple. You could find that kind of situation in any culture. Loyalty, betrayal, love, all those things are there. The price in this world is a little more harsh, but, you know, that, and maybe not so in certain parts of the world. This is is what happens. So we have it in this country, in America, in that milieu, that culture. It's what it is. So your loyalty in the movie to your work, it was very interesting to see how it affected your home life and your daughter in the movie. Yes, yes. That was what was very interesting and different to the fact that, you know, a person would love you for what you do. and how much you believed in doing the right thing for the guys you were employed by. Right. But at home, it was affecting the family. It's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Your movie does the same thing. Oh, yeah, right. That relationship that you have with your two boys and your wife, man, who is just so completely done with you. Yeah, yeah. And she in real life is a dominatrix, I heard? No. Maybe. You know who will come back to the end? Yes, yes, she is. Who is it? The actress in the film that you play with. Oh, you have to ask her, but... I'm going to check that before we run it. Yeah, you might want to be a director specific on these notes, man. I don't want to be sued. Adam Sandler. You said something about editing. How much research did you do for that part? Did you go into the... Let's give Adam a test. How much is Jenny's watch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Back to the real thing. You know, this is a gift. Instagram. That's a gift from? No, somebody just told me post, and I was like, hey. Yeah. Oh, there you go. That's a good one. That's what you want to get. Did you spend a lot of time with him? I spent a lot of time, of course. Really? What surprised you about that? Well, I'll tell you. Like Shia said, when you do the research and you come into a project and you know everything, and what Mr. De Niro was saying, when you see, when you walk. onto a set and you know you've done the homework and you have no fears of like oh if this comes up i'm going to be i'm going to shut down it's just great to know so of course i spent a lot of time on 47th street i gamble in the movie a lot so i spent a lot of time with a lot of gamblers who had bad problems and lost a lot of things and lost their lives because of it and uh the gamblers you met who who most surprised you or well the zafdy brothers the guys who did did the movie, they did the research and met a lot of guys who were willing to sit down with me and talk. And there was nothing, it's just their lives get thrown away and their family lives get thrown away. And it's about where they are right now. And they discussed what the highs and lows were. And why they couldn't stop and that kind of feeling. All these guys on the block let me in their shops and I got to sit with them and watch them. And they taught me about the jewelry and about selling and I watched them all day long. And it was a lot of fun. It felt neat to learn this new... It wasn't boring. Well, no, not at all. It's good to learn something. I walked away thinking I knew everything. Right now, it's a year later, I'm like, I forgot so much. I wish I didn't. You played a real-life character. How, when you're playing that role, how much do you have to be faithful to him? And how did you think differently? The process of playing somebody real, you have to sort of... not do the impersonation, because I'm coming from the living color background, I learned not to do the impersonation. And then also not to, I didn't have a chance to see him actually alive, but I had to sort of like piece things together. together through what people would say. And then the first thing that helped me was aesthetically. We are part of the same tribe in a sense. Our cheekbones, the diamond-shaped head, that haircut that he had. I had that in the 80s as well. So aesthetically... we were ahead of the game. I didn't have a chance to see him actually alive, but I had to sort of like piece things together through what people would say. And then talking to Bryan Stevenson and hearing him talk about how... Who's the real life attorney that the film's based on. Who, you know, goes and meets this guy on death row and finds out all these horrible things that he's on death row without a trial. They say he killed a white woman in the city that he'd never been in. And, like, he couldn't believe... that this existed. But he told me how Walter was. He felt like, you know, since I'm in this situation, I might as well do everything I can to help. So when you see in the movies talking to all the prisoners and everything like that, trying to keep up their morale, these guys on death row. So I took that as the spirit of it. And then it was a matter of the vernacular, being in, you know, Alabama and the way they talk like that, the way they say their things and, you know, and to make that. not be caricature like I remember Michael B. Jordan listen now don't do that because it started sounding like something where we really couldn't understand me so we sort of dial that in so sometimes you have to rely on the people that are around you to say what what makes the most sense that in real experience to draw upon I mean you know I was my father came to the one of the screenings who you know he was educated for 25 years in the hood in high school and everything he dedicated his life to saving black kids in the hood, they end up putting him in jail for $25 worth of illegal substance for seven years. So here he is in jail with kids that he had taught. The very judge that he would bring into the school and say, hey, I want you to shake these kids up, tell them the repercussions of anything. That judge presided over his case, put him in jail. So, When you have something like that, the person that taught you how to throw a football, the black man that taught you how to play tennis in Texas, when we weren't allowed to go to the country club, I said, well, I got to learn tennis because you don't know all of this. You don't know how to swim, tennis, all of the stuff that they say we can't do. And so that was a huge thing that I carried inside. I didn't share it with a lot of people because when my pops, I wrote him one letter because I was telling somebody I don't like to see people in jail. I wrote him one letter, you get out, I'll save your life. He came to live with me. When he went in, I wasn't who I was. When he comes out, I'm, and I got a chance to take him to the US Open and have him watch Venus play, you know? And, you know, watch the tears, you know, down. So those types of things. Now I was lucky enough to be able to have that moment, but in Walter McMillan's situation, you know, it works out, but it doesn't work out. It's still entertaining movie, but you still sit with like wow Walter McMillan didn't didn't have a chance And there's a lot of Walter McMillan you shot in the real life person. Yeah, right because those prison scenes are phenomenal They're really incredible Did you think the one moment when the cuffs was being put on me? And they had a guy who was part of the prison system who wasn't part of the movie. Yeah, you squeeze it tighter Oh, yeah, squeeze it tighter because he's a he's a bigger one Mm. Squeeze it tight. He doesn't know that he's saying something that is taking me to, like, I'll come out these cuffs. But that's his everyday life. So those moments when we were going into those prisons, that was... For a person who don't, I don't do the jail shit. You know, there's a couple of times I'm like, hey man, don't squeeze them, don't, they're tight enough. You know what I'm saying? So he doesn't know that he's saying something that is taking me to, like, I'll come out these cuffs. But that's his everyday life. We become so used to it too, because we're talking to Bryan Stevens and talking about changing the perception because the perception kills us. It's like, the reason I don't wanna go see somebody in jail It's because I don't want to get used to it. But so many people are just used to seeing their father, their brother, who are their mothers in jail. And the next thing you know, we start rapping about it. We should rap about being in jail. Because we don't have any other thing. This is all we see. So it's a tough thing. Such a wonderful film. You played your own father. Yeah. I don't know if this is fair, but it seems that in your real life, he was a pretty villainous guy. Oh. I don't know. Is that true? No, he's a sweetheart. He's a teddy bear. He's just a little crooked. Cracked vessel? He's just a cracked vessel. That's right. But there are a lot of cracks there. Yeah. Did you have to change how you saw him to play the role? And did playing the role change the way you saw him? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I hadn't talked to my dad for seven years before. I started this up, so I didn't really know my dad too well and didn't have a relationship with him at all. And my coming into this industry, you know, my dad wanted to be in this industry, sort of separated us, you know, there was like a lot of competitive, me and my dad were quite competitive with each other. And yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess you always gotta empathize with whoever you're playing, but. but I wouldn't call him a villainous character, no way. Yeah, and I hadn't really looked at him from that side. I was young and in a victim type of, you know, I was using my dad at work, which was the wrong way to go about work, but also the wrong way to see my mom. What do you mean you using him? Well, you know, I was working with material that wasn't necessarily, you know, bomb back, and this material would ask of you things that you couldn't really get in the material, so then you're left with... I didn't have any technique and I had read all these stories, you know, Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, and you know, you come up with an amalgamation of a way to do something. And for me, it was a lot of transposing my pain from my father. And it would work in front of a camera for me for a long time. I didn't have much more technique than that and I was scared to sort of clean it up because I thought, well, you know, I don't want to lose my only thing I got, which was this pain that felt very real for me. And so, yeah, I had a whole mixed bag of... I had a strange way of viewing my pain with my father, and I also used it at work, so I didn't want to clean it up. Has it changed your thinking about him or anything? Yeah, and made me better at my craft and created a relationship. Did you ever think of not playing the part, and did you ever think of directing it? Never thought of directing it because that's just not my gig, but definitely didn't think I'd be able to play it. I was not in a spot where people were like, hey, let's put some money on this kid's back and have him carry a movie. So I thought my acting career was done. I was going to join the Peace Corps. I wasn't really trying to. I was out completely. And yeah, I sent it to Mel Gibson. And yeah, I thought he was the guy to play my dad. And my dad was also... Thinking along the same lines, it's one thing to want to play your dad, it's another thing to go stand in front of your father after seven years of not talking and go, hey man, I'm going to play you when there's contention already and we weren't on good terms. So I lied to him and told him, hey, Mel Gibson's going to play you, so I'm right here. And my dad loves Mel Gibson. Who doesn't want to be played by Mel Gibson? Yeah, so my dad signed the paper under the auspices that he was going to be played by Braveheart. Well, you had the Noah Baumbach script, but this is an autobiography. So in some ways, were you playing Noah in the film? I mean, like all of these things, Noah wrote a script. He did that hat trick that people, I think, try to do of writing something that's incredibly specific, but it reaches a broader audience. I mean, like anything, like Meyerowitz, like Squid and the Whale, While We're Young, they're all, in a sense, autobiographical. But he wrote something that I think we all projected. our history or onto. What was the toughest moment for you in that film? Or was there one that you really struggled with? Usually there's like one scene in a movie or maybe two that you're dreading. With this one, every scene felt like, oh, it's all too early in the schedule. It's too early for Halloween. It's too early for Halloween. Yeah, and like, okay, well then we can maybe put it to next week. But the next week's was worse, you know? So, and again, that's, I think, a testament to good writing. Every scene felt... The stakes were incredibly high. They all felt urgent. They all felt necessary. There wasn't a part that you could take out where the movie would survive without it. I think that was our first sign of, oh, this felt like it always should be this urgent, hopefully. Last question for all of you. If you could go back to your Younger selves? Well you in a way went back to a younger self, a Irishman. Younger than that, what piece of advice would you give yourself? Well I was saying something to my grandson the other day because you know that things... Just be calm when things are going well, be calm. Don't think you're on top of the world in the sense you always got to be wary because I've seen it, I've seen people come, I've seen people go, I've seen them come, I've seen them go. You gotta be chill. You gotta like just take what's good in your life and move forward cautiously and carefully and thank God that you have that. Just it's very, very important not to overextend yourself when you think you've got it. There's no such thing. Everybody's dispensable. I wish I had known that this too shall pass. You feel bad right now? You feel pissed off? You feel angry? This too shall pass. You feel great? You feel like you know all the answers? You feel like that everybody finally gets you? And there you are? This too shall pass. Time is your ally and if nothing else, just wait. Just wait. Just wait it out. I'll take Tom. Adam. Being more economical. I think I would, I wish I could be. Things that I think I need, I don't. Whether it be acting or life. Economical, artistically, financially, emotionally. Well, we could say artistically, I guess. If you think that you need to, certain things have to be in place for you to do your job, but then actually none of that's true. We were using the example earlier of a porthole. Having it worked up in your mind and then realize you're getting there, you have no control over any of it. Or doing homework and research and like, you know, losing weight and putting a bunch of weight and then feeling comfortable to let it all go because none of that is helpful because your scene partner is drunk. I'm just pulling that. That's not something that's happened to me. I'm just pulling something out. But being more economical with, you know, okay, well, all that time I have to either get better about that I've wasted it or I shouldn't just waste that time and actually should prioritize in a different way. So I think that's kind of the same thing. Adam. Can I say one thing? Yes, of course. Couldn't you ask them to put a porthole in there? Well, here's the thing. You know what the thing was? Is that I felt as though that I was relatively calm and experienced enough that I didn't do this. Is there anybody who could have told me this? Because someone had put in the script, there was a lack of portholes in this lifeboat? And I said, all right, all right, so there's no lifeboat. There's no other. You did have that extraordinary moment that everybody talked about in the film where you cry. And I remember you said at the last round table that you'd had 10 minutes to prepare for it. Not even that. We just kind of like went down and... Adam, lost man sitting. I was thinking... I should have stretched more. I have a very bad back. I can't get out of my car. That's like the floss answer. I should have flossed. I should have flossed more, too. I think metaphorically. No, no, no, no. I'm fine with all that stuff, but I really can't get out of my car when there's a loose ball on a basketball court. I cannot get the ball ever. Everyone else grabs it before me because I can't bend. And my coaches always growing up were like always talking about I was talking about stretching. I never did it. I never did it. I always jumped right into the game. Did you stretch before playing? No, not too much. See? No, I don't. But that three ball was with him. I got the take. Yeah, thank you. Not as wet as it used to be. Good. But all of you, thank you so much. This was truly a terrific round. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. You're welcome. It was great. Hey, I'm Shia LaBeouf. Hey, I'm Jamie Foxx. Hi, I'm Tom Hanks. I'm Adam Sandler. Thank you for watching Hollywood Reporter Round Tables. Round Tables on YouTube. On YouTube. I think that's the one right there.

I'm sure you know this anecdote. Dying is easy. Comedy is hard. True or false?

Comedy is more difficult, yes. I can't do what Billy Crystal does, Eddie Murphy, you, Adam. But I can do other things.

I mean, I like to think that I work in, say, in Marty's movies, just situations that are funny in and of themselves, which is like life, you know. There are so many situations we see. We're in a situation all of a sudden, you say, I wish we could have filmed this, or this situation is so crazy, you know, but it's real. Is there anything in real life you wish you could have filmed or that you've then brought into a role? No, I mean, the only thing, say, with Marty Scorsese, working with him, is that you get closer to saying that whatever you want to do, you can actually try and do it.

And... and maybe it'll happen, maybe it'll work. So if you had an idea of something, you say, let me just try that.

I say, Marty, let's just try it, you never know. And so it's something, with some directors, you don't even go there. You say it's too much work to even attempt to bring it up to them. With Marty, we'll do it.

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So that's a great feeling of freedom. It's great. Adam, you come from comedy.

Comedy or dying. Yes, yes. Which one's easier? You know, if you have something that either way, something you're confident with, something that seems like you believe in it, I think it's the same feeling. If you believe in a joke, if you believe in a...

a dramatic scene, you go in there with the same approach, I would think, right, Jamie? Here's the thing, comedy is a natural thing. Like, I just told him, I was watching him in the comedy store when I was 18 years old, sneaking in the comedy store, watching him go up when it was like Titans, it was rock, it was Eddie working out, you know, shit with it.

I remember Eddie had on like this yellow. Fucking Century 21 jacket. He's working on these jokes and somebody's like, yo, what's up with that Century 21 jacket?

And then you watch Eddie, like, he said, oh, whatever, I'll crush you with my wallet. And then everybody started laughing. So it's interesting.

When I look at everybody here, you know, it's this, it's this, it's respect, and then I look at Adam, I'm like, oh, shit. Before he even said anything, I'm already laughing. So that's one of the first ingredients is that when you have this natural... thing of watching him on his guitar at 1.30 in the morning doing a bit that he's so dedicated to it, motherfuckers is like, oh, he's, you know, shit.

So that's the first ingredient, right? That's correct. And then the second ingredient is, as comedians, you get a light.

Like you get that lift off, that launch where everything that you're saying is funny. It's hilarious. Like people are giving you that light.

I think it only becomes difficult once you reach that. Top of comedic level. Now people are expecting, you know, the world. You know, when I go talk to Eddie, I was at Eddie's house.

He's talking about getting back into stand-up. But he's like, how do, you know, I said, well, Eddie, if you want to get into it, I could help you. First thing you gotta do, you gotta fix your house.

He's like, what you mean? I said, your house is too. Too perfect. All your, you're just too much.

You got the candles scented and all that shit. I said, Eddie, at my crib, I have shit at my house that doesn't work on purpose. So I stay funny.

I got this little carpet that's in the kitchen. It's sort of ruffled up. And I got a bathroom where you turn on the faucet and it sprays out.

And my daughter's like, why don't you fix it? I said, I feel like if I fix all this shit, I won't be funny. So it's like, you have to have that.

And then when he talked about the situation, Like when we're watching, you know, Robert De Niro, the situation that you provide for him makes it all the way funny. Does that make sense? Because now, once you have the ability to be funny, you need the situation in order for it to make...

...sense. Because if not, like this is the worst thing in the world when the director goes like, Okay, now just do your thing. Ooh. Yeah, yeah. And now you, you know, fucking...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing your shit and then when you watch it, you're like, I'm doing my shit but it doesn't make sense. So that's the part when he says... Do they only say that in comedy or do they say it in drama too? Yeah, I would say they all say, have fun with it, commit to it.

Can you be funny if you grew up with a built-in swimming pool in your backyard? I don't think you can. If you grew up being able to swim...

Anytime you wanted to, you experienced none of the shortcomings of a life that you'd turn into self-deprecation. That's right. It's tough.

Can you play tragedy though if you grow up, if you have it easy? Doesn't it all come from some inner pain, angst? Everybody's...

Yeah! Sure, you bet. Look, it's like Bertolt Brecht, man.

The whole thing is a struggle, and there's where you find your triumph. You hear the thing about that will kill us all at some point, is it's 3 o'clock in the morning, and you have to go to bed. have something very specifically that you know, you've known for months you're gonna act this beat with this scene and it's three o'clock in the morning and could be anything from rainbirds going off to you know, taxi cab drivers or something like that honking horns and it's like all right the movie is now upon your shoulders.

Don't fuck this up. And then they sit back and you wait and you got to go there man. You just gotta... tragedy, comedy.

Is there a moment you can think of where that's just a ten-second... It happens ten times a... 10 times a week sometimes, you know, where it's everybody is kind of, everybody's making the same movie you are, you know, the crew, the teamsters, everybody knows that, oh, today's the scene you're going to, you know, oh, wow, this is going to be a bill of luck.

We shut down the whole street for this, you know. All right, 11 o'clock. Okay, we're ready for a rehearsal. Hi, please give me a gun so I can shoot myself in the hip and not have to do this movie anymore.

You played a comedian in the movie Sally Field. Oh, punchline. Hey, the Safdie brothers told me to tell you that they love Punchline.

Is that right? They watch Punchline a lot. Playing a guy who's supposed to be funny, the only way to do that was to go out and develop funny material.

And I probably did six appearances of something where all I really did was jump up and down on a trampoline. I had no sense of anything. But you were, because I saw you training.

I got it. I put it together. I saw you training. I was a young comedian at the comic strip.

And you used to come in and go up there with, and Barry Sobel used to come. Yeah, yeah, Barry and I, we ended up, and I ended up after a while. Was he good? Not that night, not if you saw me at the comic school.

No, I saw you a couple times, and you were good. You came up right away where the comedians were mad that you were calm on stage and cool, and you were being yourself. It took a while to get there. The best I can describe it is you just have to go there.

When I was in junior college taking acting classes, and there's ten of us there, and we've all been there. into the American Conservatory Theater performances of certain things. We usually look at comedies going, oh yes, that's very funny. Oh, I appreciate the work behind that joke.

But the assignment for one day was, okay, on Wednesday everybody's gonna come and you're gonna be funny, and you're gonna make each other laugh. And it was stone, nothing. No one could do anything funny because that was the task at hand. So comedy is hard because you know instantaneously whether or not you're, you know, you're.

soup is good food. Adam, you were in the military. See? You're right away. These issues of acting and drama and dying or comedy, do they seem trivial in comparison?

Well, I mean, one, the stakes you're pretending are life and death, and the other, they kind of are. But the way, the process in which you work on them is the exact same. It's a group of people trying to accomplish a mission that's bigger than any one person, and you have a role, and you have to know your role. Within a gun team, you're only as good as the people that are there with you.

There's someone leading it, and when they know what they're doing, what you're doing feels active and relevant and exciting, and when they don't, it feels like a waste of resources and dangerous. You're just so aware that you're one part of a bigger picture. How did you switch from being a Marine to being an actor?

I was interested in it before being in the military. then when you get in the military, you get out, you kind of have all this false confidence that civilian problems will be small in comparison, which is an illusion. But then I was lucky enough to get into an acting school and learned about acting and plays and a process.

Then I was lucky. enough to work. Have you ever felt, Char, that there's a life and death moment in acting where your whole life depends on you pulling this off? Yes.

Which one? Every time. It feels like your neck's on the chopping block every time. How do you get past that anxiety?

Prep hard. Yeah. It's like boxing.

It's just like boxing. Guys train really hard to go put their neck on the line. The military, but it feels life and death to me. Yeah, so prep hard, determination.

I went last year to the Harry Ransom Center. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's the archive of the University of Texas, which has great papers. And there are Bob's papers, and to actually see your handwriting on, you know, the Raging Bull script. And it was amazing because your scripts are covered with notes.

What was the toughest character you actually had to prepare for? They're all different, depends. Some are harder in some ways than others. Raging Bull, because of the weight and all that, and the mission, just the physical stuff. Awakenings, there's a lot of physical stuff too, and studying how my character behaved and what his affliction was.

And then Raging Bull, I read the book. Somebody handed me the book, one of the authors, and I read it while I was doing Once Upon a Time. in 1900 with Bertolucci, and I called Marty from Italy, and I said, you know, the book's not great literature, but it's got a lot of heart, and I kind of want to do certain things.

I remember I used to see Jake LaMotta. He'd work in a kind of a strip place right on 7th Avenue in the 40s. He'd be standing right out there near the sidewalk, and he was overweight and this and that. I said, Jesus, look what happened to him from then on.

And I thought just the graphic... difference of being out of shape and then being a young fighter really that was interesting to me I thought I'd like to see if I could really just gain that weight actually and and do it so that was my interest in it Marty had his reasons and both of us just come together on the project and yeah so. Have any of you had a dream project that you've taken to a director or another act and said you must do this? Honey Boy was your project.

You wrote it. Yeah. By the way, if you haven't seen it, it's terrific. It's unbelievable.

Thank you. And the man is incredible. So, who did you want to do it with you?

My back was against the wall. I was nuclear at this point, so it wasn't like a dream project. It felt like survival.

Like there was no other way to go. I didn't have a lot of people talking to me. I was in a mental institution, so it wasn't like, oh, this is my dream project.

I'd like to explore this. It was like my back's against the wall. This is the craft that I love and I can't do it anymore. And I also had a doctor who was pushing me to explore these dirty parts and write it down.

So it wasn't like a dream project, it felt more like necessity, like survival, like something different. You said you're in a mental institution. I don't want to ask you two personal questions, but is there anything you discovered there that's been helpful for your acting?

Yeah, empathy for my father. You know, who was always the biggest villain in my life, you know? And I think if you can empathize with the biggest villain in your life and sort of scrape some of these shadows, it makes you lighter and freer. I don't think I was leading with love and my life has changed.

You may or may not attest, but I feel like when you lead with lightness and love, you can get to the heavy easier, you know? It's much easier, it's much more accessible. Like, anger and the rough shit is very easy. You know, it's the other stuff that feels quite difficult. You know, getting an honest laugh is very hard.

I tell ya, when I have to laugh in a movie, I can't do that. Really? It's tough.

What do you mean, like laugh? If my character's supposed to have a genuine laughing moment, I'd rather get genuine anything else. I'm always excited. Is it easy for you to cry? You had that big moment in Uncut Gems where you're really emotional.

Was that easier than laughing? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not great at crying.

What are you great at? I'm not sure yet. I don't even think I should be at this stage. Bullshit. Yeah, crying when it's written in a script and then he breaks down and this, that kind of, that really gets me tense for a while.

You had a massive one in Marriage Story. Every time I see that performance. of somebody breaking down, I'm like, oh man, that's incredible. How did you get to that point?

It's not something you push for. You don't push for emotion. It either happens or it doesn't.

You can't anticipate it or nothing will happen. But there's a lot of things in that instance that are supporting you. The script is so good and it's well written.

If it was badly written, there's only one way to do it. If it's well written, the language is so rich that every time you say it, it opens up an idea. For something else and because Noah has structured, and Adam knows this from working with Noah and Meyerowitz, the text is the text and I find that incredibly freeing because your intention could be anything. And if you're with another actor as Scarlet in that instance and the set, Noah is giving you another piece of information that maybe you hadn't thought of before, or the line, or you've gotten in a fight with your wife before the scene starts, or maybe nothing, maybe you're having a good moment before. This scene starts, it just opens up your imagination of a different way of reading it.

You know, he's taken basically a four-month run of a play and condensed it to two days. You know, so I think that's easier. If it's just having emotion, I don't think I can do that. Do you take that emotion home with you? I don't think so.

I mean, I don't know. It's like a release after it's done. Take the exhaustion home. No.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's a release. It's like you did that, that's there, take a break, come back.

Sometimes though there is a residual something that you have to be aware of. For you too, Tom? There is a, it's a physiological process that It incorporates your emotions in the sinews of your body. Funny, laughing and weeping are two very physical acts.

You know, they're not up here. I mean, when I cry, man, my face turns into rubber. You know, you bend over into some kind of thing.

And you can only get there if literally the text takes you there. And there's this great commonality of moments like that in which, like I said earlier, everybody's making the movie, and everybody knows that tonight or this day is going to be an emotional thing. And your job is to forget that it's on a schedule. and just live it and be it and don't, you can't push it. It actually has to come out.

Well, I'm just emotional. I'm always crying. Really?

I cry for everything. That's great. I don't know, but I'll be crying about stuff that really my accountant just called me and said, you don't have, you tried to buy a private plane and she was like, fuck, run the scene.

I was like, you know, I mean. I should be going through life. It all gets us all. Yeah, it should be going on in my life. It just ruins the game.

Shit is going on in my life, so I'm easy. I cry easy. What's been your toughest moment?

I think the toughest thing being a comedian is watching other comedians blow. Like, Eddie blew up. Oh, shit.

You know? And then Martin. So I'm like, okay, where's my thing?

But then you see that they've touched all of the comic bases. I remember going in and reading for Russell Simmons. Uh-huh.

For some... for some comedy and I was doing my thing and he was going, that's Eddie. That's Martin, that's Martin, that's Martin. No, that's Rock, that's Rock. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

And he was, no, I was just saying, you sound like Chris Rock, you sound like Eddie. So that was tough because I was like, damn, I don't have nowhere to go, right? And then like, you know, this cool thing where Oliver Stone opened up, it was, you know, this Any Given Sunday thing, which was more dramatic. And so I don't know if that's a tough.

But it was just like, man, let me go get with him. And it was an incredible... It opened up a whole other thing.

And then the tough part was getting back to being funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah, because, like, you know, like, the young folks, they see me like, oh, here's this dude using Django.

Right, right, right. And now I'm doing jokes. I'm like, why Django being funny like that? So it's like, so now I have to try to get back to... What about you?

Did you find that hard too often? I've done so many comedies. I have so many comedies on TV. I don't have a hard time getting back into that.

People... When I get to do something like this, like Uncut Gems, and I haven't done that many dramas. Maybe I've done like six or seven over 30 years'worth. I'm always excited doing them. It's a different excitement for me because I'm not sure of myself.

You know, when you do comedies, you kind of, I mean, you grew up doing them. Shia grew up as a kid being in comedies. It's a different, lighter feel on the set.

It's exciting. There's nothing better. for a comedian then going home and go, oh, I think we killed that scene.

That's gonna be funny. That's how the audience is gonna like that. But this, a drama man getting it right and feeling like you gave it your all and that excitement of reading a script and going, oh, that scene's going to be incredible. Then actually shooting it and it comes out the way you want it to, or maybe not exactly the way you want it to, but something happened big for you.

That's as good as it gets. Are you hard on yourself when it doesn't come out that way? Do you go ahead and torch yourself? Oh my God.

There's something great written that I don't think I got to where I was supposed to get. I'm really mad at myself. You too?

Yeah. Yeah, you're disappointed. The only thing is that, like you were saying, you don't push for anything.

I mean, I don't. If you push, you're not going to get it. So you just have to take what comes and try and find ways to get there, but you just can't be anxious about it. It's like the thing, the actor, he can't remember his lines, so he can't act anymore. He's working in the garage and somebody, an actor, a director comes over and says, listen, I just want you to say, Hark, I hear the cannon roar in the third act.

So I said, okay, so I'll go do it. He goes, rehearse, rehearse. And then at home, he's working, Hark, I hear the cannon roar. Hark, I hear the cannon roar. Hark, I hear the cannon roar.

Every variation, every way, he's ready, the third act, ready to go after five weeks rehearsal. He goes backstage, he's ready. The first act goes, no problem.

He's waiting. Hark, I hear the cannon roar. I hear the cannon roar.

Second act, everything, blah, blah, blah. Fine. Third act.

He's there backstage. And the stage manager comes, okay, ready? And he's hearing the play out there.

Boom. Go on. He's going, I'm saying, Hark the, hark the, the Kenwa, hark the, the Kenwa. Then you hear a bang.

Turns around. What the fuck was that? Are you self-critical? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think that you ever get over, because in a way you kind of know what your potential is. more than anybody else in a sense.

I have a lot of regret often when you leave a set you can't help but think about it. Obviously it's film, so film is forever, so you never get a chance to go back and do it again. I feel like that's the thing about acting, is that regardless of how often you do it or how long you do it, you never figure it out. Do you prefer theatre because of that?

I've learned from theatre in that. Always at the end of a four-month run of a play, you're always the last performer. It's always the best one. And you're like, okay, now I have a better sense of what I want to do and go back. So I know that there's no right answer.

There's no right way to play a scene. That's my part of it. I like the making of it. And it's someone else's responsibility to make the choice of what is the best version of it.

But I know that there's no right way. And you would just have to feel comfortable with failing. And you either get easier on yourself, I think, about like, okay, then I'll just let it go or you don't. But I don't think you will you'll ever figure that out why so I think people keep doing it I think, but I don't know.

I'm looking at you Tom. Are you self critical? Do you go home and drive?

There have been too many times where I thought I really cracked something over the fence. And then I saw it and I said, well, that is just, that's as exciting as closing door. And there's other times that I didn't, all I could do was stumble around a day. And it's fantastic. And there's no, it's odd, you almost have no control.

For me, it has come down to whether or not the procedure and the behavior that was asked of me. of you is authentic. And if it is, then you gotta leave it up to serendipity. And those fabulous people that are willing to look at your, every eyebrow and pore on your face and decide what's gonna be the best take or what's gonna end up being in the movie.

Do you know when it's directed? I would even say in a way it's not even your job, really. I mean, I think it's not your job to feel anything.

It's the audience's job. And so it. I obviously have been thinking about something for a long time and you finally get there and do it.

You want to feel something just because you feel like you put the effort in. But it's not really my responsibility to feel something. It's to telegraph that something is being felt.

But it's hard to reconcile that, to not feel like you got there and you actually, it feels like it's going to be more authentic. But to your point, you could be having all the feeling you want, but no one is feeling anything. And your job is to tell the story, not have a feeling in front of people.

When we were doing Captain Phillips and we were in this lifeboat, the script had all these great moments where Rich Phillips looked through the porthole of the lifeboat as the sun was going down and was thinking of his family at home and whether or not he was going to see them. So you could sit around in Malta, you know, where we were shooting, oh, that's going to be a powerful moment because I'm going to line up in the porthole and it's just going to be like this. You know, it's going to be really great. Then you go to work and there is no porthole in the lifeboat. both.

So you gotta like take away, it's almost so you cannot prepare, you can only just be there. The movie process, it's a little bit different if you know what I mean. It's like...

You mean it's in the theater? Just not even that. Just like when I was on Any Given Sunday, I remember Oliver Stone, when I first auditioned, was like, you're horrible when I audition.

And I was like, what? Because I was a television... I'm a television actor, so everything I did was loud. Yeah, so you better understand this with the football in the air, man. And he was like, get the fuck out of here.

Oliver can be tough. Oliver can be tough. No, but I learned from that toughness, meaning when he finally decided to make The decision for me to be the lead, he still would grill me.

He said, that's not it. That's not it. That's not it. I worked with Quentin Tarantino, and I watched an actor struggle because the set was like, it was heavy. I mean, you had You had Samuel Jackson here.

You had Leo. I mean it was some juggernauts, you know, come on motherfucker say that shit Dude's trying to say come on. Come on. Yeah, and the guy was trying to get his line And I watched Quentin Tarantino go to mountain everything's fine I was like, damn, this shit ain't gonna work out, right?

But then you see the movie. Boom. Swing, swing, swing, swing. I said, God damn.

And Quentin said, all I need is one. Even working with Kristoff, Kristoff watching him work, I learned a little more about movie. I watched him fold a paper. This motherfucker wrote on a thing and was just supposed to put it in his pocket.

It seemed like it took him forever to do it. He was like... And he had, it was nothing else existed but that.

Moment, right? Christoph Waltz's process wasn't that I'm going to have all of these things memorized and do all of these things at once. He would give you these incredible, calm yourselves gentlemen I, one more time, calm yourselves gentlemen I am but a weary traveler.

And we were watching it and Leo was like. I said Leo you think you got it? He's got something powerful.

Just keep watching, some shit is going on. And you see all these little bits of things, and then all of a sudden in the movie, boom. Calm yourself, gentlemen.

I was like, oh shit. And then I'd like to thank the Academy. I like that about Oliver because you hear so many stories about people who've worked with him. Who, Shai, has most intimidated you that you've worked with and who have you learned from the most? Everyone's intimidated by Oliver, right?

Yeah, different. Not intimidated. He would never look me in the eyes.

He always looked just above my eye, under the eyelid. Oh! Really?

Yeah. Why? It's just his way.

Maybe just with me. But probably being around Hardy. Hardy's a bit of a gorilla on the set. Tom Hardy. Yeah, probably.

I was most intimidated by him. What do you mean, a bit of a gorilla? Well, he runs the set. You know, he pees in the corners.

It's his set. You know it when you get there. Yeah.

Mmm. Don't feel like a shared space, feels like his space. And you know, he's a very good actor.

And also super loving, but on a set, you're in his church. Who has taught you the most? Bob.

Really? Yeah, definitely. I don't know if I really like that, I'm not surprised.

We can all just be quiet. We have some great actors around this table, let's face it. And what did he teach you? Oh, well, Through the performances, I watched him reveal himself and be a presenter of a soul and explore who he was through the work.

And I've always just, he made it feel sacred to me. So it felt like he lifted the craft into something that felt like a, it's wild to hear you say you're not religious, but I know you're spiritual and I don't have to ask you because I watched the work and I can feel it. So I'd say, and not to, you know.

kiss ass, but through the work, having a guy to look towards. Are you intimidated by anyone? Well, there's always somebody, I guess.

I don't know. Now I know. But as you get older, you don't want to be intimidated by anybody who shouldn't intimidate you. We're in a political situation now. We have the best example of that.

feel that you must stand up to this kind of person, not to make a speech about this here, but it's necessary to stand up and not... Because people are nonplussed. It's like they say, did this guy just do that?

He did it. I don't even know how to react to that because I'm like, that's not within my world of common sense or right and wrong or what's being fair. So I have to find a way. I just have to... You've got to push him back.

You've got to... You gotta snuff him out. You gotta get rid of him. He's, you know, you gotta deal with it.

But people are so nonplussed by this behavior. And that's how crazy people like him can get even further. Imagine him getting a second term.

He'll want, he's even said, I want to be president for life. He joked about it. And so then he'll go for that.

He'll pardon himself. He'll do anything. I thought in the beginning, you know, well, you know, he's a New Yorker.

Maybe he's got common sense somewhere in there. He's a liberal, actually, supposedly. But then, you know, after he just got worse and worse and worse and worse. And we've got to get rid of him.

Adam, should Axis be political? I'm not great at that. I listen to Bob talk and I go, okay. I listen to that.

My conviction is not great. I do believe in my way of being. I just try to...

Be as good of a person I can be and try to conduct myself a certain way. I don't think I always do that right, but when it comes to me discussing politics, I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to go at it. It's an interesting thing because it's actually not politics. What he's talking about is me letting my kids watch someone who is supposed to be from the mayor, whatever, they're supposed to be different. He's not talking about policy.

He's talking about the human nature of things. And so we should all have an opportunity to say or not say, but I got kids, so I got to tell my kids, I say, hey, listen, this is not the way things are supposed to be when it comes to the human nature of it. Because when you do ascend to these levels of running things, we look to that.

Look, all of what we've gone through in our Lives as American in politics, we were always able to look at that office and say, that's something to aspire to be and to be like. If I can't let my kids listen to that person talk, then that's where we're off. So it's not actually politics.

There's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I'm like this. You can have a different, you can have a disagreement with me about policy. We can both do that, because I got good old boyfriends that are, that are... Red State guys, and I got Democrat friends.

I'm a Democrat, but I'm in all of those circles because I'm always performing. You know what I'm saying? And quietly, even if we disagree, there's always that point of being a man, being nice, being kind.

And so to his point, when you see something where a person is, bless you, when a person is just yo, you don't have to dance in the end zone with everybody. God bless you again. I'm sorry. God bless you.

But I think that's what it is. And then we all get nervous. You know, we get nervous because, well, what's, what are people going to say about me? But then, if we don't have someone saying something, bless you again.

Man, I don't know where that came from. Bless you again. It's all good. But if you don't have someone's...

No, I don't got it. Go ahead. But you know what I'm saying? So it's like, um... Mm-hmm.

It's not politics. It's human beings. It's like, I know... Look, I... I... I could share this story.

I did a gig for Jerry Jones, who's... I'm a cowboy, huge cowboy fan. And I had to perform for the, uh...

for the owners in the NFL. And Jerry Jones'son-in-law said, you know what I'm gonna do here? I have to perform for, you know, some good old boys. And I said, don't worry about it.

I'm good. I'm from Texas. I think I'll be good. So the first thing I sung was George Strait. And they were like, oh, man.

Next thing you know, by the end of the night, I had everybody singing Gold Digger and Blame It On You. I got Colin Powell singing it. But I got a chance to speak with George Bush.

I'm this close. And I was like, we spoke? And of course, we all had our differences.

But I asked him something. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this story. I said, would you ever say anything disheartening about President Obama? And you know what he said? No, I wouldn't.

It's too hard of a job. I learned so much. I would never knock his legs out from under him because I know what it is.

And then I watched him and his kids play with Obama's kids. That's what it's about. You know, if we're taking it there, that's what it's about. So it's a matter of everybody has something that they want to say, but we shouldn't be afraid to say it. You're not going to be—we should just say, hey, man, they just think cool.

So when Ellen DeGeneres went to the game with George W. Bush, do you think that's okay? Listen, it's bigger than that. When we're in... I've seen... I've been in football games where Jesse Jackson, George Bush, everybody...

They're still humans. But what happens is... It's an interesting thing. When you see what media does, they always separate and make it...

Something big. Ellen is sitting with George Bush, who she's known for years. It's not a big thing.

Still doesn't mean she's gonna compromise what she believes in. And you don't have to do that. I think it's always been that way. Only now, it's just different because you do go like, wow, that ain't cool. Even if you felt that way, that part ain't cool.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like, we shouldn't be afraid. Look. And people say, oh, he's a snobby actor, elitist. What the fuck is you talking about, man?

I came from Terrell, Texas. No money, no nothing. I said, nothing snobby about me.

I'm happy that I'm making my money. I said, but for me to get to a position of where I'm at right now and not say nothing? Like, what?

You know, so like I said, I'm not running for office. But damn, we should be able to say whatever we want to say. When we want to see it.

Does that make sense? Yes. Tom, you had a little Freudian cough going on there. I didn't know where that came from.

It was a cough of agreement, what was going on. We all have... I'm going to give you three more of those.

Those are freebies after that. But not everybody should be political, but every... Everybody must be principled.

And we carry our principles with us 24 hours a day. It's part of the countenance. It's part of why we do what we do in the first place.

It's in our choices. I have to say, one of the things I learned from the learned from the get-go as an actor in a repertory company of people you worked with. You didn't have to like those people, and you did not have to agree with those people.

You didn't have to hang with those people. But you had to respect those people. You had to respect their process, and you had to respect their opinions. And the default setting, I think, for so much of everything is conflict.

And what's the word I'm looking for? Cynicism. Cynicism. That's the first place I think everybody can go.

So if Ellen is at a football, at a game with George W. Bush, what's the cynical take on what that is? Right. As opposed to what is the respectful take on that?

You know, I'm not going to assume anybody automatically agrees with each other because they're at a Dallas Cowboys and Oakland Raiders football game. And I think that's a difference. And also, you know, kind of like political views are a dime a dozen. They're absolutely everywhere.

You just played the least cynical guy maybe in history. Is it actually harder to play someone that nice than to play a villain? They're the same exact beast.

Granted, Mr. Rogers is not Iago, but they have their principles and they have their... They have their mission statement. The story in the movie is really about the journalist that is very cynical about who Mr. Rogers is and finds out that he was wrong.

And there's no nefarious motivation between what Fred Rogers did for a living. He viewed it as his ministry. And that's kind of like looking at some combination of Mother Teresa or somebody that is hell-bent for doing just good. the sphere of which they operate.

And the cynic walks into that and says, what's your racket here? What are you trying to pull here? And if it's actually just, well, we're trying to feed the homeless people some soup so they get a hot meal once a day. Now, there's got to be something more to that. There's not.

And Fred Rogers was an ordained minister, and his principle was such that everything that guided him through his daily behavior and his creative output was based on making people feel safe and a part of something bigger than they actually were in his case two and three year old kids but he never ever said the word God not in not in hundreds hundreds and hundreds of hours of television. When you explored that character, was there a darker side in him that... that actually pushed him in the other direction.

There was the same dark side in him that is in any cracked vessel of humankind. There is doubt. There is a sense of failure. There is always a degree of self-loathing.

There was always a question of, am I doing enough for the people that I love? Now, is that a dark side? I don't know that it's dark. Not everybody says, I'm growing tired of this game, Mr. Bond.

Perhaps you'd like a tour of our installation before we feed you to the shit. sharks. I think that's a dynamic that comes about and that's, you know, Shakespeare wrote that kind of stuff left and right. But the journalist who came to talk to Mr. Rogers was paying that, no, no, no, there's something in the past and you're doing this for some reason in the future. And that's an artificial accounting that is required by somebody who is not the person themselves.

Bob, when you're playing a guy who's killed people, as you just did, and it's based on a real life man, is it good? good for you personally to find the goodness in him or is that a dangerous proposition? I don't think, I mean he was a guy who happened to have seen a lot of combat in the Second World War so he was a little, he was inured to killing more than anyone, someone else.

And he found himself in this world where he was a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little bit more of a, you know, a little world that was not what he was from and fit. And he was loyal to the people that gave him love and support and respected him. And so that's how.

And then he was then he had a big. conflict, which later on, not to give it away, but that was the whole thing. But I think the whole story, the story's very simple.

You could find that kind of situation in any culture. Loyalty, betrayal, love, all those things are there. The price in this world is a little more harsh, but, you know, that, and maybe not so in certain parts of the world.

This is is what happens. So we have it in this country, in America, in that milieu, that culture. It's what it is. So your loyalty in the movie to your work, it was very interesting to see how it affected your home life and your daughter in the movie. Yes, yes.

That was what was very interesting and different to the fact that, you know, a person would love you for what you do. and how much you believed in doing the right thing for the guys you were employed by. Right. But at home, it was affecting the family.

It's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Your movie does the same thing. Oh, yeah, right.

That relationship that you have with your two boys and your wife, man, who is just so completely done with you. Yeah, yeah. And she in real life is a dominatrix, I heard? No.

Maybe. You know who will come back to the end? Yes, yes, she is. Who is it?

The actress in the film that you play with. Oh, you have to ask her, but... I'm going to check that before we run it.

Yeah, you might want to be a director specific on these notes, man. I don't want to be sued. Adam Sandler. You said something about editing.

How much research did you do for that part? Did you go into the... Let's give Adam a test.

How much is Jenny's watch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Back to the real thing. You know, this is a gift.

Instagram. That's a gift from? No, somebody just told me post, and I was like, hey.

Yeah. Oh, there you go. That's a good one.

That's what you want to get. Did you spend a lot of time with him? I spent a lot of time, of course. Really?

What surprised you about that? Well, I'll tell you. Like Shia said, when you do the research and you come into a project and you know everything, and what Mr. De Niro was saying, when you see, when you walk. onto a set and you know you've done the homework and you have no fears of like oh if this comes up i'm going to be i'm going to shut down it's just great to know so of course i spent a lot of time on 47th street i gamble in the movie a lot so i spent a lot of time with a lot of gamblers who had bad problems and lost a lot of things and lost their lives because of it and uh the gamblers you met who who most surprised you or well the zafdy brothers the guys who did did the movie, they did the research and met a lot of guys who were willing to sit down with me and talk. And there was nothing, it's just their lives get thrown away and their family lives get thrown away.

And it's about where they are right now. And they discussed what the highs and lows were. And why they couldn't stop and that kind of feeling.

All these guys on the block let me in their shops and I got to sit with them and watch them. And they taught me about the jewelry and about selling and I watched them all day long. And it was a lot of fun. It felt neat to learn this new... It wasn't boring.

Well, no, not at all. It's good to learn something. I walked away thinking I knew everything. Right now, it's a year later, I'm like, I forgot so much. I wish I didn't.

You played a real-life character. How, when you're playing that role, how much do you have to be faithful to him? And how did you think differently?

The process of playing somebody real, you have to sort of... not do the impersonation, because I'm coming from the living color background, I learned not to do the impersonation. And then also not to, I didn't have a chance to see him actually alive, but I had to sort of like piece things together. together through what people would say.

And then the first thing that helped me was aesthetically. We are part of the same tribe in a sense. Our cheekbones, the diamond-shaped head, that haircut that he had.

I had that in the 80s as well. So aesthetically... we were ahead of the game. I didn't have a chance to see him actually alive, but I had to sort of like piece things together through what people would say.

And then talking to Bryan Stevenson and hearing him talk about how... Who's the real life attorney that the film's based on. Who, you know, goes and meets this guy on death row and finds out all these horrible things that he's on death row without a trial.

They say he killed a white woman in the city that he'd never been in. And, like, he couldn't believe... that this existed.

But he told me how Walter was. He felt like, you know, since I'm in this situation, I might as well do everything I can to help. So when you see in the movies talking to all the prisoners and everything like that, trying to keep up their morale, these guys on death row. So I took that as the spirit of it.

And then it was a matter of the vernacular, being in, you know, Alabama and the way they talk like that, the way they say their things and, you know, and to make that. not be caricature like I remember Michael B. Jordan listen now don't do that because it started sounding like something where we really couldn't understand me so we sort of dial that in so sometimes you have to rely on the people that are around you to say what what makes the most sense that in real experience to draw upon I mean you know I was my father came to the one of the screenings who you know he was educated for 25 years in the hood in high school and everything he dedicated his life to saving black kids in the hood, they end up putting him in jail for $25 worth of illegal substance for seven years. So here he is in jail with kids that he had taught. The very judge that he would bring into the school and say, hey, I want you to shake these kids up, tell them the repercussions of anything.

That judge presided over his case, put him in jail. So, When you have something like that, the person that taught you how to throw a football, the black man that taught you how to play tennis in Texas, when we weren't allowed to go to the country club, I said, well, I got to learn tennis because you don't know all of this. You don't know how to swim, tennis, all of the stuff that they say we can't do. And so that was a huge thing that I carried inside. I didn't share it with a lot of people because when my pops, I wrote him one letter because I was telling somebody I don't like to see people in jail.

I wrote him one letter, you get out, I'll save your life. He came to live with me. When he went in, I wasn't who I was. When he comes out, I'm, and I got a chance to take him to the US Open and have him watch Venus play, you know?

And, you know, watch the tears, you know, down. So those types of things. Now I was lucky enough to be able to have that moment, but in Walter McMillan's situation, you know, it works out, but it doesn't work out. It's still entertaining movie, but you still sit with like wow Walter McMillan didn't didn't have a chance And there's a lot of Walter McMillan you shot in the real life person.

Yeah, right because those prison scenes are phenomenal They're really incredible Did you think the one moment when the cuffs was being put on me? And they had a guy who was part of the prison system who wasn't part of the movie. Yeah, you squeeze it tighter Oh, yeah, squeeze it tighter because he's a he's a bigger one Mm.

Squeeze it tight. He doesn't know that he's saying something that is taking me to, like, I'll come out these cuffs. But that's his everyday life. So those moments when we were going into those prisons, that was...

For a person who don't, I don't do the jail shit. You know, there's a couple of times I'm like, hey man, don't squeeze them, don't, they're tight enough. You know what I'm saying? So he doesn't know that he's saying something that is taking me to, like, I'll come out these cuffs. But that's his everyday life.

We become so used to it too, because we're talking to Bryan Stevens and talking about changing the perception because the perception kills us. It's like, the reason I don't wanna go see somebody in jail It's because I don't want to get used to it. But so many people are just used to seeing their father, their brother, who are their mothers in jail. And the next thing you know, we start rapping about it.

We should rap about being in jail. Because we don't have any other thing. This is all we see. So it's a tough thing. Such a wonderful film.

You played your own father. Yeah. I don't know if this is fair, but it seems that in your real life, he was a pretty villainous guy.

Oh. I don't know. Is that true? No, he's a sweetheart.

He's a teddy bear. He's just a little crooked. Cracked vessel? He's just a cracked vessel. That's right.

But there are a lot of cracks there. Yeah. Did you have to change how you saw him to play the role? And did playing the role change the way you saw him?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I hadn't talked to my dad for seven years before.

I started this up, so I didn't really know my dad too well and didn't have a relationship with him at all. And my coming into this industry, you know, my dad wanted to be in this industry, sort of separated us, you know, there was like a lot of competitive, me and my dad were quite competitive with each other. And yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess you always gotta empathize with whoever you're playing, but.

but I wouldn't call him a villainous character, no way. Yeah, and I hadn't really looked at him from that side. I was young and in a victim type of, you know, I was using my dad at work, which was the wrong way to go about work, but also the wrong way to see my mom.

What do you mean you using him? Well, you know, I was working with material that wasn't necessarily, you know, bomb back, and this material would ask of you things that you couldn't really get in the material, so then you're left with... I didn't have any technique and I had read all these stories, you know, Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, and you know, you come up with an amalgamation of a way to do something.

And for me, it was a lot of transposing my pain from my father. And it would work in front of a camera for me for a long time. I didn't have much more technique than that and I was scared to sort of clean it up because I thought, well, you know, I don't want to lose my only thing I got, which was this pain that felt very real for me. And so, yeah, I had a whole mixed bag of...

I had a strange way of viewing my pain with my father, and I also used it at work, so I didn't want to clean it up. Has it changed your thinking about him or anything? Yeah, and made me better at my craft and created a relationship. Did you ever think of not playing the part, and did you ever think of directing it?

Never thought of directing it because that's just not my gig, but definitely didn't think I'd be able to play it. I was not in a spot where people were like, hey, let's put some money on this kid's back and have him carry a movie. So I thought my acting career was done.

I was going to join the Peace Corps. I wasn't really trying to. I was out completely. And yeah, I sent it to Mel Gibson.

And yeah, I thought he was the guy to play my dad. And my dad was also... Thinking along the same lines, it's one thing to want to play your dad, it's another thing to go stand in front of your father after seven years of not talking and go, hey man, I'm going to play you when there's contention already and we weren't on good terms.

So I lied to him and told him, hey, Mel Gibson's going to play you, so I'm right here. And my dad loves Mel Gibson. Who doesn't want to be played by Mel Gibson? Yeah, so my dad signed the paper under the auspices that he was going to be played by Braveheart. Well, you had the Noah Baumbach script, but this is an autobiography.

So in some ways, were you playing Noah in the film? I mean, like all of these things, Noah wrote a script. He did that hat trick that people, I think, try to do of writing something that's incredibly specific, but it reaches a broader audience. I mean, like anything, like Meyerowitz, like Squid and the Whale, While We're Young, they're all, in a sense, autobiographical. But he wrote something that I think we all projected.

our history or onto. What was the toughest moment for you in that film? Or was there one that you really struggled with? Usually there's like one scene in a movie or maybe two that you're dreading. With this one, every scene felt like, oh, it's all too early in the schedule.

It's too early for Halloween. It's too early for Halloween. Yeah, and like, okay, well then we can maybe put it to next week.

But the next week's was worse, you know? So, and again, that's, I think, a testament to good writing. Every scene felt... The stakes were incredibly high.

They all felt urgent. They all felt necessary. There wasn't a part that you could take out where the movie would survive without it.

I think that was our first sign of, oh, this felt like it always should be this urgent, hopefully. Last question for all of you. If you could go back to your Younger selves? Well you in a way went back to a younger self, a Irishman.

Younger than that, what piece of advice would you give yourself? Well I was saying something to my grandson the other day because you know that things... Just be calm when things are going well, be calm.

Don't think you're on top of the world in the sense you always got to be wary because I've seen it, I've seen people come, I've seen people go, I've seen them come, I've seen them go. You gotta be chill. You gotta like just take what's good in your life and move forward cautiously and carefully and thank God that you have that.

Just it's very, very important not to overextend yourself when you think you've got it. There's no such thing. Everybody's dispensable.

I wish I had known that this too shall pass. You feel bad right now? You feel pissed off? You feel angry? This too shall pass.

You feel great? You feel like you know all the answers? You feel like that everybody finally gets you?

And there you are? This too shall pass. Time is your ally and if nothing else, just wait.

Just wait. Just wait it out. I'll take Tom.

Adam. Being more economical. I think I would, I wish I could be. Things that I think I need, I don't. Whether it be acting or life.

Economical, artistically, financially, emotionally. Well, we could say artistically, I guess. If you think that you need to, certain things have to be in place for you to do your job, but then actually none of that's true.

We were using the example earlier of a porthole. Having it worked up in your mind and then realize you're getting there, you have no control over any of it. Or doing homework and research and like, you know, losing weight and putting a bunch of weight and then feeling comfortable to let it all go because none of that is helpful because your scene partner is drunk.

I'm just pulling that. That's not something that's happened to me. I'm just pulling something out. But being more economical with, you know, okay, well, all that time I have to either get better about that I've wasted it or I shouldn't just waste that time and actually should prioritize in a different way. So I think that's kind of the same thing.

Adam. Can I say one thing? Yes, of course. Couldn't you ask them to put a porthole in there? Well, here's the thing.

You know what the thing was? Is that I felt as though that I was relatively calm and experienced enough that I didn't do this. Is there anybody who could have told me this?

Because someone had put in the script, there was a lack of portholes in this lifeboat? And I said, all right, all right, so there's no lifeboat. There's no other. You did have that extraordinary moment that everybody talked about in the film where you cry.

And I remember you said at the last round table that you'd had 10 minutes to prepare for it. Not even that. We just kind of like went down and... Adam, lost man sitting.

I was thinking... I should have stretched more. I have a very bad back.

I can't get out of my car. That's like the floss answer. I should have flossed. I should have flossed more, too.

I think metaphorically. No, no, no, no. I'm fine with all that stuff, but I really can't get out of my car when there's a loose ball on a basketball court. I cannot get the ball ever.

Everyone else grabs it before me because I can't bend. And my coaches always growing up were like always talking about I was talking about stretching. I never did it. I never did it.

I always jumped right into the game. Did you stretch before playing? No, not too much. See?

No, I don't. But that three ball was with him. I got the take. Yeah, thank you. Not as wet as it used to be.

Good. But all of you, thank you so much. This was truly a terrific round.

I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

It was great. Hey, I'm Shia LaBeouf. Hey, I'm Jamie Foxx.

Hi, I'm Tom Hanks. I'm Adam Sandler. Thank you for watching Hollywood Reporter Round Tables.

Round Tables on YouTube. On YouTube. I think that's the one right there.

Transcript for:Insights from a Star-Studded Roundtable

Transcript for:
Insights from a Star-Studded Roundtable