excited to welcome Auburn head coach Johnny Harris to the basketball podcast in her first season coach Harris helped Auburn double its win total from the previous season and pick up three victories over nationally ranked opponents the second season was also a step in the right direction for the program as the team finished with a winning record for the first time since 2019 and advanced to the second round of the Women's National Invitational Tournament a long time Southeastern Conference assistant and the 2018 wbca National assistant coach of the year Harris was named Auburn women's basketball head coach in April 2021. Harris was an assistant coach at Texas before being named the head coach for Auburn she has also served as an assistant coach at several other schools including Georgia Alabama and Mississippi State national championships won NCAA Championship Game appearances three NCAA lead appearances 6 NCAA sweet 16 appearances nine NCAA appearances 12. quite the resume as coach Harris goes into her third year at Auburn coach Harris has vast coaching experience having won one National Championship appeared in three NCAA Championship Games appeared in six NCAA Elite eights appeared in nine NCAA sweet 16s and appeared in 12 NCAA tournaments coach Harris welcome to the basketball podcast thank you thank you for having me coach when I went through your resume um and I've been trying to set this up for a while so I knew but man you've done it all in coaching and uh now you get a chance to run your own program maybe first just talk to us a little bit about that experience as an assistant coach I'm not sure anyone's ever had a better resume heading into a head coaching job well I have really been blessed to have you know coach with some some really really good coaches you know Hall of Famers okay y'all Gary Blair Vic safer and I've taken a lot you know I coached with Susie Gardner who's been you know when she was at Arkansas but she's really been successful at Mercer I've coached which uh I started out with Tracy Stewart Lang as a ga and then with Lewis Horton who was a Hall of Famer he passed away a year ago but had the opportunity actually to start coaching on the floor and recruiting with him at the junior college level so I've been blessed to be around some really amazing people were you surprised how long it's taken you to get this head coaching job or is it the right time it is the right time I had opportunities but and I did it wasn't that I didn't feel like I was ready it was just the right opportunity at the right time I loved being an assistant coach every coach that I've worked with prepared me to become a head coach but it was it just for me needed to be the right the right situation at the right time and I just felt like Auburn was it Auburn is uh has been it for you and I watched The Rise I've listened to a few things that you've talked about I wanted to ask you as we focus on Auburn here back-to-back games for the first time in four years in the SECU one this year first time since 2017 won three in a row in the SEC so I'm curious is it important to celebrate the small accomplishments on the path towards bigger accomplishments it most definitely you know and and we did have going into last year we had bigger plans we wanted to we really wanted to have a shot at getting in the NCAA tournament and I think until my top two scorers were hurting and missed nine SEC games uh combined uh non-sec games and even when honesty got back she was not was clearly not the same but before that we felt like we would have had a shot at going to the NCAA tournament and to be honest with you that was our goal but with those circumstances where the way we ended up I thought was really good I thought we had a young team and they competed their work they worked their butts off and I felt like they competed and there were times when I had four you know five freshmen on the floor anywhere from three to five a lot of nights I had freshmen on the floor and I just thought those kids came in and competed I love that I love that you felt like you could do even better sometimes the breaks of the game and everything goes with it you know on Coach Johnny harris.com and you have The Winning Edge and a lot of things around motivation and different things like that and one of the things that you talk about there is marginal gains for continual Improvement and I've got to think that that's a big part of this program as you build it back to where you feel it should be absolutely and I think you know it started with building your culture and getting the right kids and kids that fit your system I've always been a part of the the teams that we've had that have went on to play for championships most of the times we didn't even have an All-American on our team but we had kids that were that fit our system that were tough hard-nosed physical and aggressive you know that's always been a part of our DNA starting back with Gary Blair Vic Shaffer that's just what you look for and I think that sets the tone for your program I I thought I think we're getting to that you've seen glimpses of it but I think the team that we have now it they they really show it more than the more the longer I'm here the more that they're showing that yeah and if coaches if you want to go watch Auburn women's basketball the rise episode one it outlines a lot of things coach is talking about uh great excitement around the program and all the things that go with it and now improving with marginal gains baby steps whatever you want to call it that's that's not uncommon that goes to a lot of programs especially when you're building from where Auburn was but as coaches is that something that we should explain to our players and help them normalize and understand that uh yeah and and they have to understand that it is a process but and that doesn't mean we're we're settling for less or we're settling for you know whatever place it's just part of the process of building a team and and they do have to understand that and but I I do feel like if they come in and they give us everything we have and and you get breaks in order to win championships a lot of times you have to be lucky as well as skilled and and all of that so they you just want to keep them going and continue to get better every day just just get a little bit better we talked about when I first got here being one percent better every day you step on the floor this year we're talking about doing one more you need to make 10 free throws make 11. you know just doing one more taking one more step just just not getting to the line go go one step ahead uh just so they get that mind said um I'm gonna do extra I'm gonna go the extra mile that is a big part of the process that's a big part of of every program that I've been a part of I love that example the tangible practical example of something and I know motivation is big for you and having your players show their passion for improvement so can you give us some other examples maybe within practice where you help keep them focused and motivated are you keeping scoring practice uh you know are you doing things winners and losers what are you doing in practice to keep them well most of everything we do we either scoring it we're timing it and if they don't make it you know we start out practicing with consequences you know we it even with Millennium Manchester ball on defense or getting your face cut you got to go and run it started out where we had to convince them like look you gotta run and it was wide now I have a team now that if they let their man catch the ball they know take off and you have have to make your time when you go and then you come back and do it again our philosophy is we don't want our men to catch the ball on three-point line or or within their shooting range we want them to catch it way out and that does uh several different things it helps you deny it helps to recover like if you have a post player helping you but you let your man catch a way out it's harder to make a post pass post to enter past it's harder to make one pass away it helps us get into help side so we just don't let our man catch catch the ball where they want to catch it and that's the other thing you want them to do you want your opponents to do things that they normally don't want to do so we practice with consequence and I think that has helped us a lot this team right here they are really focused I think I have a um you know I signed eight kids but I have seven of them here the other one will be here a second summer session but I think I have a lot of kids with chips on their shoulders I think I have a lot of kids who just wanted to be here they fell in love with this Auburn spirit and they wanted to be here and they want to help get this program to the next level the kids that I had to return they all you know they had a choice they they could have left but they stayed here they want to help build this program they want to see us get back to the NCAA tournament which is where this program should be so they are they are preparing like they wanted love that and uh you know you kind of alluded to this but that's a big part of this isn't it moving that consequence from coach led to player-led in the sense that the players will lead it and the players know the value of it is that something that's built over your tomb and now going into your uh third offseason it is it it is starting with our players that we have come back it also starts with Mingo and uh Taylin and Kiki kids that came in and they they well I'll start with Mingo she's signed with us at Mississippi State so she knows what to take the other day in practice she let her man catch the ball but see you know we we continue the play out so they ended up swinging it to the other side and we had a post player coming down and mingle stepped in and took the charge she immediately got up and went to run and and everybody was really excited about the charge but she knew she had let her man catch the ball earlier so she just automatically took out from her I didn't have to say hey Mingo you gotta go she went on her own so and those kids they are setting the example they're they're leading away with that that's how you gain trust trust with your teammates trust with your coaches if you got somebody out there that's really not that great guard in the ball and they know you guys they have some help somebody that's going to take a charge they're gonna trust that you're gonna be there and they're gonna it'll it'll be easier for them to do what I want them to do yeah denial defense obviously a tactical philosophy but a little bit of an outlier still isn't it like most teams are still pack lines so you denying actually gives you a little bit of an advantage that other teams aren't used to playing against or preparing for it is that something that's a big part of the picture while pressure in the ball and the heartache with pressuring is that you get beat off the balance but you have to have somebody there and help and you have to have good rotation and you know we work on that every day we work on taking charges you know I asked a lot of money they first got here how many have taken charges and most of them have not but you know what we work on it every day so they're getting more and more comfortable getting into helping being there and this this team this program is um our fans are embracing that style of play so when somebody take a charge this is as exciting as someone hitting the three I just really feel like that is the ident that's going to be our identity I know that's going to be our identity I think will look more like what I want us to look like this year oh that'd be fun that'd be great so just give coaches a picture uh pressure the ball deny one pass away we're not helping on the drive from one pass away we're rotating and helping out the rim and that's where the charges come in we're fronting the post yes so that's where the charge is coming from I I don't like our post to step off on ball side so the post will stay on both side but that rotation will come across from the father's man back and then we'll rotate down and that player will get the next pass out and then we'll we'll scramble and we like I said we work on Coach Fred do a good job of working them on Scramble defense every day so a lot of that is about communication it's about trusting it's about talking it's about having each other's back so that's been really good um so one pass away we know the consequence if you let your player catch the ball inside the three-point line obviously that's a No-No if you get beat back door is that someone else's responsibility in terms of the No-No yes and it depends on where so you have to be far enough off to where you can be up the line but you have to be close enough to where you not just easily getting beat like that from the middle of the Court a lot of that starts with pressure on the ball if you're pressuring the ball it's hard to make a really easy back door pass just like it's hard to make a lot pass to the post so our ball pressure is the most important thing and the ball pressure are we are we forcing a direction based on Scout or are we playing straight up what is the preferred stance in terms of covering the ball then with ball pressure we like to force on Baseline and when they pick the ball up we're all over them when they're in the middle of the floor we're totally chin Chester chest but we're close enough to where we're dictating which way they're going we like to set them left if they're right-handed we like to set them right if they're left-handed but not letting them uh get to the rim so Square stance on stop on top and force Baseline on the wing perfect analytically what are you finding are the benefits of denial and some of this pressure type defense are you finding anything that now stands out yeah I mean we're getting a lot of steals I thought last year I want to say 38 we help people to field goal percentage overall and our problem was is that we didn't have finishers I think now we're finishing better you know I think we had a great postseason and I I the recruits we brought in so we're we'll be able to finish better because if you're stopping people 35 to 38 then you're going to have the balls 65 to you know 63 to 65 some of that's going to be dead ball but a lot of that is live ball and you want to be able to score and transition so we work on a lot on our transition offense out of that we really want to get get those stops and go go finish and if we don't have anything you know we'll set it up and and either we'll either go and go into our dribble drive or motion or we will stop and run a play yeah fun fun to see how it all can act you know fronting the post are you butt fronting are you chest fronting in terms of that and then Primary Health responsibilities one of the challenges in front of the post clearly is not that initial helper usually they're pretty good but it's covering that weak side skip so are you covering that with an X Out or how are you covering the weak side so the weak side skip so we're pressuring the ball so that that skip cannot be a direct skip if it's a direct skip that's the person on the boss issue are you finding more of those attacks to the weak side or off the dribble then it's either off the dribble or it's a it's a more of a lob than a straight line pass yeah it's not a straight line pass they have to float it over there and so that gives us time to recover because we we move on the past yeah we want to pressure the balls but sometimes they will get it and that's the rotation down because I still want to be there I want to get that help over there to stop the ball and then let them um let them rotate out of it a chest front or uh butt front in terms of the low post you're like the butt okay like if they do lob it we're sitting and then right when the ball get over us we'll have a chance to jump up and bat it away that'll be a whole lot better this year because we have a lot more size a lot more size I saw that on the the recruiting roster coming in so that's great and then uh keep part of obviously fronting is not letting it go back to the high low so denying the high low and pushing that I mean I assume that's a big priority because you don't have a low if you don't have a high and even if they catch it how you want them to catch it you know 35 40 feet out rather than catching it where they can just catch it and make that high low pass if you don't have a low if you don't have a high I love that and uh coach saying that where what's your preferred way for your low post to recover back to the inside which is another key part of that when you front the post and the ball gets moved either the top or the weak side what are some preferred ways to get back to the inside I like for them to so we have to jump to the ball quickly so it if if we're fronting and covering the post and the ball go high we gotta be lead them to the spot if if the ball is skipped we got to get off and beat him to that spot and make them come through us to be able to get to the other side to post up for their life and then we're already in front if that makes sense yeah it makes total sense you know in some of this I mean one of the challenges then if you're going to front the post and obviously in the SEC the height and the skill in the inside is just tremendous so teams trying to attack you are you finding that they're trying to run a lot of ball screens to be able to force mismatches or run on you in transition to create cross matches to be able to attack the post they do and so with ball screens how we handle that is it just kind of depends on on the team that we're playing in the ball handler but we have trapped we have open up and let let the guards slide through we have hedge hard and sometimes we'll just show you know back off and and show and help more on the road so it just depends on who we're playing and uh that personnel and generally trying to avoid switching then yes we're trying to avoid switching unless it's a four and we have a big guard um switched out on that yeah well it's fascinating and thank you for sharing that it's it's great to be able to kind of dive deeper into a denial type of system are there any situations in terms of Scouting Report or different types of match-ups that you'll take the denial off a specific player or you know to not guard someone who can't shoot for example or different things like that no we I don't coach was shaking her head right away everyone so you know it's an all-in thing and I love that it's an all-in things there were times when we now we have played a Zone we have played a matchup Zone when I first got here um and even a little bit last year just because of dab Talent level being in foul trouble we make ghosts on this year we may do some Zone too but it's gonna be a totally different it's still going to be very active trapping we want to dictate Tempo we want to dictate what the action is going to be so we're not going to sit back and just hope somebody missed and not guard somebody We're not gonna do that yeah and part of the philosophy is to not let the other team run their offense right to take them out of their offense and be able to disrupt make them do something that you know something else you know a lot of people want to reverse the ball and they usually reverse it through the high post or through guard coming up and we want to take that away what are you finding some of the preferred methods of attacking this type of Defense because again you've been part of this defense for a while is there anything that's particularly effective to be able to attack a denial type defense so with this type of Defense everyone has to do their job so if you're not fronting the post and I'm pressuring the ball it's gonna you know I don't have to throw a perfect pass for a lob or if you're not in help and we're pressuring the bomb it's it's a little bit easier to get beat off the bounce and and I really don't want them backing off to keep somebody from beating them off the bounce I want them up in them from the time they walk in the gym we feel like we're gonna be in there but so that's our philosophy you know we're jumping on them from the jump you can't do that if everybody's not doing their job if you're not denying one pass away and you're just letting them catch it now they're gonna catch Ball but we don't want them to catch it on the three-point line because most people in the SEC can make that shot or they can they dribble in or somebody will have to help you we want them to catch the ball you know they're like I said 35 40 feet from the basket and then we're we're still pressuring and normally when that happens and you can't make the past you want to make then you got to do something different and you know when you do something different we'll adjust and attack it a different way like normally they're passing and and just say they're passing to a wing and we take that pass away and she have to dribble entry now we might come out and jump there where normally we wouldn't jump there they made that pass so uh just try to give them different things and and that could be the difference you know sometimes we do that out of time miles sometimes we'll know if they're catching a ball insert on a certain spot on the floor or if it's a certain person we might jump in and that could just be the difference in one or two possessions that can be a difference in a ball game it's fun to be disruptive I can tell I can hear it in your passion I love that and I'm curious with this all in type of disruption and denial are you the similar philosophy when it comes to inbound defense in terms of trying to disrupt and deny Baseline inbound or sideline inbound yes absolutely we don't want them to catch the ball in Rhythm we don't want to catch it where they want to catch the ball we want them to have to do something different go set a screen or just get the ball in and run a play so but but we're not gonna bag off to let that happen like you're gonna have to get open to get yeah and how does that happen like in inbound defense in particular Baseline inbound are you switching out sometimes to be able to deny any type of Entry or how are you doing it being disruptive on inbound I I'm not crazy about switching out depending on situations and Personnel I might have to switch out but for the most part I like for our kids to beat them to the spot and ride them out you know get out there and be in denial so they have to throw that ball over their head and they give everybody else a chance to recover but we definitely don't want we're not going to give up uh we don't want to give up a shot and you know I was young last year but there was times when we got a lot of five seconds counts on inbound plays but there was also times when we gave up a wide open shot just because we missed messed up on the switch or whatever if the more philosophies you have or the more things you give especially a young team it the easy it is for them to mess it up so we I was more like you know you get tough you get through that you beat them to the spot or let them get the ball in let's play love it I'm just wondering I mean uh having been uh an incredible assistant coach for so long at different levels with so many different coaches I'm wondering what did you learn from that experience that helped you manage your current staff in the best way possible I'm imagining some things that you liked and didn't like as an assistant now you get a chance to manage your own staff so can you share some of those things yeah so I will tell you that being around Vic Shaffer coach Blair coach y'all you know all the coaches that I worked for one of the common things was was to be prepared and especially coach Blair coach Blair always wanted you to be prepared he gave everybody responsibilities you know I had inbound plays when I went there and I would I was I was always prepared with the inbound play when he needed now sometimes he would ask me for a play on the bench sometimes he would not but I would totally be prepared and I remember like I want to say it was my second year there coach Blair there's a lot of times when he would trust you with it there's a lot of times when he would he wanted to call a play himself but we were in the NCAA tournament my second year there and and what I did was I studied the offense I I knew who could set a good screen who could not set a good screen I know who could get through a screen on the defense who to set a screen on and all of that so we're in the second round of the tournament we're playing against Gonzaga I want to say we had to score and I told Coach Blair I said coach Blair I had he had let me call a play all game but I said coach Blair I have a play that will work I'll get you a wide open shot he was and he looked at him and he was like nah I got it and so one of the other assistant coach coach Burns she said I know you got to play she said go back in there and you look him in the eye and say coach I got this and so I went back in the Huddle he's talking I said coach I got it let me have it and so he said okay but you better score and so we got a wide open back door layup uh from that team but that was because I was prepared I knew who was on the floor I knew who could who I could pick on I knew who I could beat back door and um I set the play up and we scored and from that day on I think his level of trust was more and more now he he gave me that time on the floor to put plays again but when it came to games it took him a while to to really trust me with with calling those plays but after that you know national championship game the play that we we were up one we had an inbound play with just a few seconds I call that play we ended up getting a three but that built and that came from being prepared that's great advice yeah great advice and but the other thing that you got is you got reps right he gave you reps in practice to be able to do that and was that common for a lot of the coaches you worked with that they gave you reps in practice to be able to develop well that started with that started with Coach Blair yeah started with Coach Blair and then and then you know I did the same thing with Vic the the thing with Coach Blair is he wanted me to recruit but I made it clear that I wanted more and so and that started with Vic Schaefer Kelly Bond me going in the office with them because they have been with him forever and so me going into office with them learning how to scout the way he wanted it uh the way Vic wanted it and and I did that that stuff on my own and prepared scouting reports so whenever there there was and I went from there to to now they're trusting me with Scout so now I'm scouting that that was I I love scouting because you know as an assistant you get to see patterns of coaches you're scouting against some amazing coaches and you get to see how they're putting together their plays you know you can see patterns you know you just learn so much uh from scouting that was I think that was one of the things that helped me the most is being able to scout Gordon in there with Vic safer and him me doing mock-ups scouting reports of him writing all through and going from that to him using my scouting reports so like I said that was just big but that was something that I I wanted to do more than just recruit so I I put myself in that position well I just I think the most important thing of that story is that you advocated for yourself so talk to us about that and because that's not an easy thing for an assistant coach I know that in in a lot of the roles but one creating that environment as a head coach for your system to feel comfortable to advocate for themselves and two you having the belief and confidence to do that so can you offer your best advice to uh so with me it and it's we could be one or two ways so with me I hadn't been with them I hadn't been in that system when I went to a m uh coach Blair had three seniors or well he had four seniors but three starters and then he had three Juniors that you know have been in the program that have been playing a lot of minutes and they pretty much knew his system inside and out and then he had Kelly and Vic who were with him at Arkansas and had been with him four or five years there before I got there so it was how do I find my voice so I'm I'm standing on the sideline and I I just don't want to mess anything up because they already knew but that was a way you know I had to look around and see how I could get my voice through and and that was a way that if you're doing Scouts they gotta listen to you you know the coaches have to listen to you because you know the scouting reports the players are going to come to you so that was a way that I could get my voice out I just you know I wanted to to have an impact but I I wanted to be effective I didn't just want to be out there just saying something just to say it I wanted to have an impact so I had to figure out how do I find my voice what is it that this team need other than you know players you know we always successful we're bringing in really good players there but how how can I help on the court and so that was that was one of the ways that studying those inbound plays making sure that I was ready when coach needed a play I had to play for him it didn't matter the situation and that was a way that I could get my voice out there I love it and uh do you have any advice to current assistance I know like it's a it's a cliche that's true I get it do your best job as the assistant for the head coach and the opportunity will come but they should also still be preparing to be a head coach so talk to us about the best advice in terms of balancing those two things because you've been through it and so the way that I prepare myself first of all I don't think you know I never wanted to give my boss a reason to worry that I'm just out there job hunting and I wasn't I was never doing that and I know there are a lot of people there and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but I wanted to make sure he knew I was all in with what I was doing I really believe because of that because I was always supportive you know there were sometimes he had to speak and I would ask but can I go speak to this group there were a lot of times I would go out and speak and it would be the head football coach the headman basketball coach and then me speaking to a bunch of boosters or a bunch of donors or whoever that's preparing myself but that's also Vic I know you want to go play golf you go play golf and let me do that so that's also making sure that he knew that I could handle whether it was practice or whether it was talking to players that you know was was having issues or handling parents I I try to always know what he wanted and what he needed and sometimes even if he if he didn't want it but if I could give him a couple of days to where he could go and relax or go hunting or go fishing or whatever he wanted to do put myself in a position to where he trusted me to take care of the team while he was out doing that and he didn't have to worry coach he used to always say that when you wake up in the morning I want a recruiting to be the first thing on your mind and it was for for a lot of years but then once we got once we passed the recruiting recruiting coordinating position on to the next coach my the first thing I thought about is what could I do to help crochet for today to help take something off his plate because as a head coach you have so much and I don't think people really understand how much you have what can you do to take some of that off of of your coach what do he know that you're gonna bring or she know that you're going to bring to the table that'll take something that they're comfortable giving you turning over to you that you can do to help and and I would say put yourself in that position it's tremendous advice so just diving a little deeper is that something that you would suggest an assistant go to the head coach and say listen I know these things are on your plate I can handle these things and go proactively with actually things that you can do or is it to just offer in general and say Hey listen I'm here for you if you want me to do something more yeah and I think it could be either way it depends it depends on your boss like some bosses want to handle everything themselves I think when you're in that situation you just gotta show them that you can do it you you have to show them that you can be trusted doing this that or the other without being overbearing but but then there's some that you you know you can go to and say hey coach I we were in a situation where we had some players that wanted to talk because they didn't they didn't like the offense we were running or something like that and Coach Shaffer said well you know I went and talked to him I said hey you got some players that want to talk to you and he said well what do you suggest how you how you want me to handle it I said I want you to go play golf and let me handle it I promise you I got it and he did and I handled it they ended up at practice and we went on to take that team to the elite eight but these were the top three players on the team that were not happy with what he was doing but it was my job to make sure hey this this man you talking about somebody that's a a Hall of Famer he's been he's in all of the he's been coach of the year and there's been a coach of the year I'm like you questioning him so I just had to point out to you you know your coach just got fired yours just got fired yours just got fired it could be because you're questioning what they're doing why not trust somebody so I I he allowed me to go in and take care of that he didn't have to worry about it I tried to make sure that these players were ready to practice that he didn't have to deal with attitudes or issues off the courts or grades or anything like that so that that was the thing that I woke up in the morning and made sure was taken care of where he had to post he had to take care of getting the game plan together or you know managing the budget and all that other stuff that head coach do that assistant coaches have no idea but the things that I could take off there I tried to do that and you know now as a head coach I mean there's nothing better than having an assistant that will handle things and certainly handle things on behalf of you in a way that supports what you're trying to do and that just that voice to be able to have it come not from the head coach because they hear from the head coach so much don't they to be able to hear it from an assistant and say actually no you should be doing this yes yes for me I hired a former player but she's a she had been coaching for 10 years but a former player from a m two former players from from Mississippi state so they knew and and I'm and these were didn't just hire them because they were my former players but because they're good at what they do they're all good at different things but they're a lot of the same things but the the main thing is we share philosophy so when you're taking on a new program it's not you it wasn't me having to teach my assistant coaches and my players it was players who have been through with who knew who were tough who were physical who were aggressive and they knew what that looked like so now they can model those behaviors you know we always want our kids to do extra to do a little bit more to be prepared and all of that well now they can see what that looked like in the coaches that are hired and so because they modeled that behavior and so that's one thing I don't have to worry about I don't have to worry about walking in my office and my coach is not being prepared or they're on a different place with that being said they don't agree with we don't agree on everything but the good thing about it is that we can come in here and talk they may give me a suggestion I may go with that suggestion or I may have a totally different decision but when we walk out of this office we're all on the same page that has been really amazing this staff just I mean there's so many insights here thank you coach and uh you know thinking about business I mean having a niche having some type of specialty is usually pretty important because it gets you to the Right audience and that specific audience I'm wondering as an assistant coach is there is there a challenge and a benefit to having a niche say someone labeling you as a defensive coach or someone labeling you as a recruiter as in your case like so much of your reputation seems to be built on recruiting but we know you're so much more than that through that process so I'm wondering is that both a positive and a negative or how do you approach that type of philosophy I think it's a positive but I also think that putting your assistance in different situations and I try to as big did I try to always give my my coaches credit for making in-game adjustments or telling me something that you know I need to know and and we make an adjustment to help us in whatever situations I give all of them time on both ends of the court so they get time on the offensive end and a good time on the defensive end because just like your your coaches and your players you're also coaching your assistant coaches you're also developing them you want them to develop you want them to eventually have their own program that's why you get into it so I think it's really important to make sure that they have that time both on the offensive end and defensive end for for a couple of different reasons it does develop them but when I'm gone if I have to just step away to do something now they're prepared they know exactly what you want and the players are going to trust them the players aren't going to look at them like okay you're good on defense but how are you going to tell me what to do on the offensive end so I make sure like when we break down sometimes and I'll have one team down here and another team down there I'll have assistant coaches coaching them even though I'm watching and coaching the whole thing uh I'll still have them coaching them and building that level of Trust Great it strikes me as the same thing as what you do with players to a certain extent that you notice that they're doing something better than they were before and that noticing it helps in helps keep them motivated to keep going and it's the same thing for your assistance right when you give them public uh public acceptance or public uh support or whatever that may be that that's a big part of the process any other challenges that you experience as an assistant that you've found a solution to as a head coach for them it wasn't really a challenge for me but I I did learn that one of the most important things is getting players especially when you're out recruiting is getting players that you're that you're about you have to know who you who you work for and it's getting players that that fit them that fit their system players that they don't have to fight with to get to do what they want you know I'm saying it's it's really according to go out and get what your boss wants like you might see a player and you think okay this is the one but may not be a good fit for your boss it's more important to get that fit than it is even or it could be a highly higher ranked kid but if they don't fit they don't fit you get somebody that your coach can coach um that has that a like mentality and personality so it is laid back or it's it's I'm gonna get after it doing extra it's hard you have to know who you're working for and and what helps them out on the court and that's what you have to make happen is recruiting harder nowadays with all the accessed information or easier with all the access information it's always pretty much been been the same with the information the thing that that's making it difficult is not knowing what your roster is going to be the next year because of nil because of the the first year the next year transfer so you may think um like right now I have two committed in the 24 class and I only I only have one scholarship left but we're recruiting three or four more kids because you never know what your roster is going to look like and it doesn't mean it could be a kid that's happy that's playing a lot there's just no Rhyme or Reason for a kid transferring now so you are prepared that they're going to transfer almost right you have to be prepared and so you know even though we have two commitments in that 24 classes and we're looking for 25s but we're still recruiting 24s because you never know it's a fascinating time I know for college coaches and uh you know finding your new system and new way of handling it is obviously a big priority curious about the layers of an evaluation when it comes to recruiting and you've worked with different coaches and different staffs and now for yourself is it a question I mean you have analytics now obviously you have video you have in person how many different coaches need to see a player in order for you to say offer them or to recruit them officially is there layers of uh validation or is it just you and you making the final decision but I'd make the final decision but because I have players that have played for me and know what I look for I trust that I and then my other recruiting coach is Fred Williams who coached in the WNBA he know my philosophy and and we share we have a lot of the same philosophy so if they tell me that there's a player out there they haven't been wrong if they tell me there's a play out there that I need to offer yeah I even if I haven't seen them yet and normally I have seen them on film I may not have seen them in person but if they see them before and they feel like hey you need to go ahead and offer them and then I'm gonna go see them I'll do I trust them with that talk to me I mean it was noticeable when I researched for this podcast uh coach Johnny harris.com obviously the rise that episode a few other things like you've done really conscientious and and great job of branding yourself and your program can you talk about the importance of that and then maybe what's some next steps in that process are well I think coming here because the program was norbiting channels and they didn't win hadn't won a lot in the last couple of years I think it was really important for people to know who I am you know being a first year head coach so I think that's why our I had Bob Starkey and a lot of this was you know he's very experienced and his first thing was we got to put you out first we got to make sure people know who you are what your philosophy is how you want to build this team and so we started out talking about that we knew we wanted our team to be that tough and I keep saying the same words because that's who we are tough that's who we're leading to be or we've been building up to being that tough physical hard-nosed aggressive team I remember being with Vic safer and he used to always use those words and if I'm recruiting a kid that didn't look like like that tough hard-nosed physical aggressive and sometimes you know Vicky used to always say well that has nothing to do with your jump shot and it doesn't but it does have something to do with your ability to score like you still have to be tough you have to be physical to be able to score in the SEC so just making sure people understand exactly what that means exactly what we're looking for exactly what I mean when I tell our students that we want to jump on people from the time they walk in the door so I need a student section to help me with that it's it's just I think we're building to that our crowds have gotten bigger they're getting louder they're understanding what our philosophy is and what's important and when to go crazy and just things like that that branding that uh you know making sure they know what to expect and uh what we're looking for and what we need from them yeah that was really important especially when you're starting over when you're building you know from ground up coach you're building and you're getting to that point and I know your expectations are high so going into your third year this has got to be a lot of fun for you as you see a lot of this work potentially going to pay off oh yeah it is and I'm seeing things like I'm walking in this morning and I see players in the gym getting up shots and just the the buy-in from players from from players that I initially inherited that was here those guys have bought in they're they're doing things that we've been telling them but you know sometimes they have to see that it works but I I just think this team this year we have a total buy-in we haven't had kids missing class we haven't had kids not doing what they're supposed to do and I always tell our kids if you're not going to be disciplined off the court there's no way you can be disciplined on the court I have a lot of kids that are disciplined that are doing the right things and and that's both on and off the court I don't have to coach effort I don't have to coach hard I don't have to coach attitude I'm being able to coach basketball so that is something that is really welcomed in my third year well coach again thank you enough for sharing the game with us it's going to be exciting to watch your program through the next few years and we wish you all the best thank you I appreciate you having me