Emily, I want to set up the video that we're about to play. So this is something that was published on Dropsite News, which again, thank you everybody out there who has supported us so far. And we do still have this counterpoints discount going on and we can put this up on the screens.
Just go to dropsitenews.com slash counterpoints to get 20% off. The journalism is all free, but the subscriptions are what make it possible. So thank you again for doing that. So to set up this video, which has gone. absolutely mega viral in Pakistan, despite the fact that Pakistan has banned Twitter.
I was going to say, you have 3.5 million views on this on Twitter. And has actually now banned drop site news. Like we've been banned in Pakistan and they have taken down Twitter. They even slowed the internet, which throughout Pakistan, they're like, they slowed the internet because of drop site news. And it still is going viral throughout there.
So the video is... It's 15 minutes and it's two phone conversations. And it's an example of what's known as transnational repression, which means that a government is repressing somebody outside of its own borders.
So let's say China is angry at a dissident and they go to Poland and they threaten them in Poland. Or Pakistan or India. Lots of countries do this, but other countries hate it. When they do that because so in the in the hypothetical example I mentioned there Poland for instance would hate it not because Poland has any particular Opinion on whatever the thing is that China and this dissident are fighting about or Pakistan and it doesn't it but because It's an incursion on to Polish sovereignty Turkey for instance Had a diplomatic fit when Saudi Arabia killed Jamal Khashoggi in a consulate in Turkey. Right.
Because that was a slap in the face. Like, we can do something on your soil and there's nothing you can do about it. So that but it's also this this is also very but India famously Killed someone in Canada recently. Yes and appears to have killed someone in California last week another a Sikh activist so in India Is one of the biggest purveyors of this sort of repression and violence but Pakistan is now is now doing it as we've discovered on an industrial scale, but it's very hard to prove and people who testify to it often get written off as either paranoid or self aggrandizing or or kind of Trying to trying to like draw attention to their cause what it because because if there someone's coming after them it's because they're engaged in some sort of protest or dissident activity.
This time, not only was this call recorded, because I've heard from a lot of people who have similarly recorded calls, but they were willing to publish it, which takes an enormous amount of personal courage because you're already under threat. That's why they're coming after you. And so what's going on here? The example we have is a Pakistani man had become a citizen of Australia. His brother was still back in Pakistan.
The Australian man did two things. One, he started a petition urging people to sign on to a resolution sponsored by Greg Kassar and Susan Wild here in the United States that... It was just a resolution supporting democracy basically in Pakistan and calling into question the elections of February 8th. He also started a petition telling the EU that it should look into its trade deal with Pakistan, which has requirements around human rights. And if Pakistan is violating those requirements, the EU should look at its trade deal.
Just a guy in Australia who has a Pakistani descent doing two petitions. His brother gets abducted. by about half a dozen men in black and taken to a jail cell nearby.
And we know that this is a government operation because it's a real jail cell. It's not like they got taken to some basement and were trying to get a ransom of money, like old school movie kidnappers. Right. It's a jail, so it's a state operation. The brother tweets about...
The fact that his his brother has been abducted he then gets a phone call from his brother's number And he knows he's been abducted so it's creepy. It's creepy. He answers the phone And we can roll the this animated animation of these two phone calls and the animation was done by you should golly And she did a terrific job with it.
Oh, yeah, so we can just roll this video here Assalamu alaikum. Wa alaikum salam. How are you?
How are you? How are you? How are you?
How are you? Hello? Yes, yes, Chithak?
Sir, how are you? I am fine, thank God. Who are you?
Do you know from which number I am calling? Yes, yes. From whose number? From my brother's number.
Where is your brother? He was taken away at night. Someone took him away at night.
Listen to me. If you want to play smart, you can play it for 4 days. You introduce me.
Who are you? I will tell you. Listen to me first.
Where are you from? Australia? Are you Australian national? Yes.
You have an Australian passport, right? Yes. You should mind your own business. You didn't understand the importance of keeping Pakistani nationality. You said you are Australian nationality.
Then you should not be indulging in Pakistan's affairs. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Now you people have gone out and sat down and you think that you are the owner of a very big household. Now tell me who runs this citizen portal? I run it. What? I run it.
You run it. And what else do you run? Nothing, that's it.
Who runs the OAP Voters? OAP Voters, OAP, our team, Pakistani Voters I run it Do you run these two Twitter accounts? Yes, I have only one Twitter account The one you are mentioning, it's the only one No, there are no two separate accounts?
No, no, it's the only one Okay, it's the only one Now you will send me the username and password of this account Okay, then I'm waiting I am waiting. What will happen to him? I will tell you.
You send him. I am not sending him. Sorry. You can't send him.
He is your brother. You will take responsibility. Okay? Okay.
Okay. I am opening the door. What is happening, Mirchand?
Salman Bhaiya, this brother has brought me here and there is a lot of problem for me. So, it is my responsibility that you do as he says. What is he saying? What is he doing? You are speaking against the Pakistan government, right?
Please don't do that, otherwise there will be a problem for me. Where are you? Where have you brought me? Tell me a little about yourself. I don't know anything.
I have a bandage on my eyes. Okay. Did anyone beat you up? Did someone beat you up? Yes, I did eat.
Did you get beaten up? No. Okay. I don't do anything against the government.
Tell me more. Sir, the hospital is your call. Hello? Yes?
Hello? Yes, hello? Yes, sir.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Is the voice coming? Yes, it is.
Okay, I... Sir, I told you that I need your username and password. I need it. Yes.
Okay. In the next one minute, you have tweeted that my brother is dead. Delete this and instead tweet that my brother is absolutely fine. No, no, I will tweet when you come home. I won't do it first.
Okay, then delete it. I won't do it. You will be in trouble.
I told you I won't do it. I will talk to you when I reach home. Don't make me angry. I don't understand what you mean.
I understand what you mean. So you leave my brother's house with love, then I will listen to you. Okay?
Hit me, hit me. Wait, I will listen to you. Hit me, hit me.
Hit him. Listen to this. My dear, you know that laws and national repression are being done against Pakistanis.
You are an Australian. You are torturing the brother of a citizen. Do you know that? No!
No! No! No!
Sorry! Sorry! Sorry!
Yes, did you hear that? Yes, I heard it. You heard it? Yes, I heard it. Tell me what you are saying.
No, you will leave the brother at home and then we will talk. No, what were you saying earlier? I said that I understand things with love, not with anger. If you leave the brother at home, then we will talk. No, what did you talk about earlier?
The Australian national one? I said that what you are doing is transnational repression. It has international rules, okay?
What you are doing is... Your rules are such and such. Okay?
If you... I have brought your brother here. Next time I will bring your entire family. Okay, you...
Okay? You do one thing. You send the tweet to brother and I will listen to you. First, please take brother home.
Deal? No, listen, let's go on two things. One, you delete the tweet now. Okay.
In next one hour, 30 minutes, your brother will be at your house. Okay. And if it doesn't happen?
Then? And if it doesn't happen? So, do you want to tweet again?
How long will it take to tweet? Okay, fine. Okay? And secondly, if you are very active on Citizen Portal, for the next one month, no tweet will be cheap here.
Okay, we can think about it. No, I didn't think about it. You can talk to me about it.
What kind of tweet did you get? I don't tweet that much. You tell me what kind of tweet did you get?
No, you can't comment on what you are doing on Dhandli. Can I talk to you after a month? You won't do it for the next one month.
Okay. Even after that, you can talk normally. Share whatever you have, but don't do what you are doing. Don't do it for a month.
After that, do what you have to do. Okay, give me a discount of 10 days. No, no, one month.
What will happen after a month? Nothing will happen. You do it for a month. After that, I will come directly to you. Then we will decide what we can do.
You can do it, I am not saying you should not do it. You can do it. Now tell me who else is with you in this?
None. This is your own project? Yes.
You can tweet, but if there is a tweet that will be directly attacked, then consider. On whom? You share things related to Imran Khan that you say he is in illegal custody.
You share this, right? Yes. How it is illegal.
The government has given a punishment. What is my brother's problem in this? You answer him. If I tweet that it is illegal, you answer him.
It is not illegal. The matter is over. What is the problem in this?
No. No. You understand this kind of language.
You can't go anywhere. I will talk to you. I told you not to talk to me.
Explain to me. The thing is called instability. It is already very much. We don't want instability in this country.
And stability is necessary so that people remain quiet at every end. Okay. People don't talk about it because it causes instability. You people don't have to do anything. You have taken all the nationalities.
You can confine them there. Leave our knowledge. We will handle it. I don't have any objection to your brother talking. Okay.
Because he lives here. He lives with us. He shares our problems. You guys have taken over the national team.
You have no right to be honest. This is my personal view and you may disagree with it. So for now you delete it. In the next 30 minutes your brother will be at your home. I agree with you on two things.
First, I will delete the tweet. And when my brother comes home, I will delete the tweet and message you that my brother has come home. Okay? And... And...
No, no, I won't say this. Everyone knows what has happened. You understand what I am saying? Okay, then don't tweet. Just delete the tweet and we will continue.
The whole world is after me. I have to tell people. I just want to say that my brother is back home. That's all I want to say.
Thank you everyone for your concern. Is the story over? Yes.
I will think about it. Let me think over it. Let me sleep over it.
What will you think? You have already kidnapped my brother, you can kidnap him again. You said you will be in touch with me, so let me sleep over and think about what you are doing with me. You are saying in good faith to me that I will do it again.
I am also telling you that you are the owner of my house and you are the owner of my brother. Take him back. That's what I am saying, you will take me back.
So, okay. After this, we will talk about it. No, I can't risk my life on such terms.
I am not tweeting. I am not doing this or that. I have heard what you said. Let me think about it. What I have to do and what I don't have to do.
So, it's okay. You do it. No, it's okay. I will not be able to release it. Okay.
I will not tweet in 5 days. What? I will not tweet in 5 days. No, you tweet.
I am just concerned that whatever tweet you tweet, it is related to this. You will not tweet related to PTI. Dude, I will think about it.
Okay? You will not tweet for 5 days? Okay. And we will talk about PTI related tweets. Okay, you will talk to me after that.
I am not asking for permission. You can keep in touch with me. That's fine.
Not a problem. I am not asking for permission. If you go to my timeline, I don't tweet for 6 months. I don't tweet for 6 months today if you go to my timeline.
Okay? I'm not very active on Twitter. And I'm not a big activist either.
Okay? You guys think about your actions. Why do you talk like this that we won't let the doctor see us, we won't let him go, we won't let anyone meet us. People panic on this. Do you understand what I mean?
People panic and then they do weird things. What is it? That no one can meet Mr. Khan for two weeks, that it's a matter of his eyes, his temperament, that no one will meet him, no media will go, this won't happen. This spreads panic. You understand what I mean?
You people spread panic, I didn't spread panic. When you take such steps, overseas Pakistanis panic. So who will you raise your voice against?
Who will you stop? You understand what I mean? Are you following me?
That's another discussion for a topic. I am a reasonable person. I am talking to you. Either you get convinced by me or you convince me. I don't want to fight with you.
If you convince me, I will follow what I understand. Okay, that's fine. I will try to convince you.
Listen, you are there, right? I am deleting your tweet and will send it to your brother in the next 30 minutes. What is your name? Hamza Hamza, do you work for Markhor? No, I can only tell you this much.
Okay, I am deleting your tweet and you are deleting my phone too. In the next 30 minutes, your brother will be at home. He will be on his way. Okay.
Hello. Yes. For the next five days, there will be no tweet from your side.
Okay. We will talk and try to convince him. I will think about it for 5 days. You can talk to me again. My brother needs to be taken care of.
I am tweeting. Stay happy. Okay. Emily, any reaction to that kind of harrowing 15 minutes?
Well, there's no surprise to me why this went viral, because the audio in and of itself, I mean, the animation is so well done and poignant, and it's just incredible, such a good idea, too. The execution's amazing, the idea itself was amazing, but the raw audio, even on its own, is just shocking. And it's one of those things that we didn't used to have access to.
to before audio could be recorded. I mean, you would hear about this stuff through printed word or word of mouth, but when you sort of are able to actually, it's like you're eavesdropping on this awful situation. It's just really incredible.
Is it Hannah Arendt who wrote the book, Banality of, came up with the phrase banality of evil? The banality of it is what is so striking to me where They're negotiating over the number of days that you cannot tweet and what kinds of things you can't tweet about and you're like Talking about tweets here, right? This is just tweets and your reporting has for a year plus now like upended Pakistani politics and our American viewers might not realize that like the The importance of reporting like this this a report itself that it's having a Pakistani politics. You mentioned drop site is It's a month old.
It is banned in Pakistan. This changed the way that X was working and Twitter was working in Pakistan. You are so influential in Pakistani politics because of this reporting.
It's very strange. This is not a path I predicted my journalism would take me. But it's been quite a story to follow. So, yeah. So, guys, DropSiteNews.com slash counterpoints.
thank you for all your support. Very deeply appreciate it. We'll have more to come on this soon.
It's incredible stuff. Hey, if you liked that video, don't forget to hit the like button and subscribe to Breaking Points. If you want to see the rest of CounterPoints, go to BreakingPoints.com to become a premium member and get the full uncut show every morning in your inbox and on Spotify.