The following program is a production of the Fairfax Network, Fairfax County Public Schools. Welcome to Meet the Author. I'm your host, Emily Godfrey. Today I'm thrilled to be speaking with New York Times best-selling author Ruta Sepetys.
Her award-winning novels Between Shades of Grey and Out of the Easy are followed by her latest historical fiction Salt to the Sea which takes place as World War II is drawing to a close. Thank you for joining us here today Ruta. Thanks so much for having me. So I'm just gonna get started and I have a quote by you that says writing historical fiction is like being a detective.
Can you elaborate on that? Absolutely. Some of the best and most amazing stories are still untold.
And writing historical fiction, I get to dig for clues, I get to interview people, but most importantly, I get to give voice to someone who maybe didn't have... a chance to tell their story. Well in your novels there are lots of people who never got to tell their stories and you're telling their stories through both of these.
Let's talk about your latest novel, Salt to the Sea. Can you set the stage for us? Definitely.
Salt to the Sea is set in winter of 1945. And at this point, Hitler knows he's losing the war, but he won't admit it. And there's an evacuation that is staged so everyone can leave this area of East Prussia. And we follow four characters, two guys and two girls, who are all hunted and haunted by tragedy and lies and war.
And their fates converge as they escape and make their way to the port and board a ship that they believe. will take them to freedom. Our local middle school students read Salt to the Sea, and they have some questions for you.
Let's take a look. Great. What inspired you to start writing historical fiction? What creative liberties did you take with the time period? Obviously, since it's historical fiction, the events described in the story are based off of real things that happened, but I was wondering if any of the characters were based off of any people in particular.
Those are all awesome questions, but let's start with the first one. What has inspired you to write historical fiction? Well, prior to becoming an author, I actually spent 22 years in the music industry.
And part of my job was to ask musicians and songwriters to write historical fiction. writers, what's your story? Because if I could get them to incorporate and weave their story into their art and into their music, it would have an authenticity. And one day one of the musicians asked me, they said, what's your story?
And I said, well, I'm Lithuanian. And the musician said, I'm so sorry, how long have you had that? He thought it was an illness.
And he explained, he said, your story, you're Lithuanian, I don't even know what that means to be Lithuanian. And that question, what does it mean? I mean, that started my search for my own story, which led me to write my first novel, Between Shades of Grey. Did you set out to write it as a novel, or were you just looking into your own history?
No, I definitely set out to write a novel. I could have written it as a novel. nonfiction or as a family memoir, but there were so many, I mean hundreds of thousands of people who were impacted by these deportations to Siberia.
I felt if I wrote it as a novel, I could weave together the stories of many people and maybe that way I could represent a greater human experience, a larger human experience than just the experience of one family. Well back to the student questions, one of them was what creative liberties did you take with the time period? Well, I try not to take too many liberties because I want to be as authentic as possible. I want the reader to feel immersed in the time period. But inevitably there are some liberties that you have to take.
I do not take liberties with battle dates or, for example, in Salt to the Sea, the date that the ship sank. But In the character's journey to get to the port, I did take some liberties. Stopping along the way, where they stopped, how they stopped, who they met along the way.
So those were some of the liberties that I took. Can you talk a little bit about the maritime disaster in Salt to the Sea? Definitely.
Everyone has heard of the Titanic. This leisure cruise ship that so tragically sank and 1,500 people lost their lives. But near the end of World War II, there was a ship that sank that dwarfed the Titanic and the Lusitania combined. But somehow this was a story that history opted to forget.
The ship was a German ship called the Wilhelm Gustloff, and capacity of the ship was about 1,400 people. And when the Germans staged this evacuation, they took all of the furniture off the ship. And they put on, of course, priority passengers to the Germans, were the wounded soldiers, the officers, the German military. But then they decided to take some refugees.
And when people heard that this ship was taking refugees, they thronged to the port. And when the ship departed, a ship that held 1,400, it was carrying over 10,000 people. Wow. And it was torpedoed in the dark of night, three torpedoes, 60 minutes to sink. And 9,300 people lost their lives in the freezing Baltic Sea.
It is the single largest maritime disaster in history, but most people have never heard of it. That's amazing that we haven't heard of this before, and what a great setting for a historical fiction novel. It's a question that plagues me. What determines how history is preserved and recalled? Why is it that some stories, they penetrate the collective consciousness?
But then there are other stories, like this, the largest maritime disaster, the most devastating maritime disaster, and we've never heard of it. And so my four characters in Salt to the Sea, as I explained, their fates converge as they board this ship. Well, this leads me to the third student question.
Are any of your characters based on real-life people? They are. Once I do my book research and I read all the nonfiction I can, I travel to the place where the event... happened and I look for people to interview and in this case it was families of victims, families of survivors, some survivors themselves and that's when the story really takes shape.
When I'm sitting with a human being who has beaten this lottery of life or death and they share that experience with you. Everything from their gestures, the the quiver in their voice, the hitch. in their breath as they're speaking. Absolutely. I weave those elements of real people, you know, together to create my characters.
Wow. Well, you talked a little bit about your research process. And when we ask kids to be writers, we do ask them to do research as well, which they can find very difficult. Can you talk about how you do your research? Like, what's your approach?
My approach is called... In the trenches. I'm getting in the trenches and I'm just going to go for it.
Because otherwise, if I overthink it, I might become overwhelmed. I might feel a sense of responsibility that the work would never adequately represent what these people went through. So I can't do that. I just have to go in search of the truth.
And essentially, I'll put together a list of questions that I'm looking to answer. But when I sit down with someone, I want to hear what they have to say. So I ask open questions like, what do you think the world doesn't understand about this story?
And for Salt to the Sea, some of the best research came from two divers who were amongst the original divers to explore the ship after it sank. Oh, wow. When did they do the diving?
They were at the Technological University of Gdansk, and the Soviet secret police came to them. and said, we hear you boys consider yourself divers, and we have an expedition for you. Well, keep in mind, this was during Soviet times.
These boys did not have proper training. They sent them down to explore the Guslov in search of perhaps the Amber Room, this glittering chamber of amber and jewels and gold that they thought had been loaded onto this ship. Oh, wow.
They did not tell the divers. that there were 9,000 souls on that wreck. I was able to sit with these men, and it was quite a few years after, five years after that they did explore it, but they said for miles approaching the ship, there was luggage, there were shoes. They were able to tell me everything that they saw, and that helped inform me as to what these refugees had taken with them, that in their last gasp for life, what they boarded that ship with. that now lays at the bottom of the sea.
So my research really comes alive in many different ways. Yeah, that sounds like very powerful stories that were translated into the book. Very powerful stories and also very sad stories.
But amidst that sadness, there was survival, there was hope, there was love. So I try to inject those elements in as well. Well, there are lots of different storylines, like you're saying.
Absolutely. And in Salt to the Sea, you chose to have multiple different narrators. So, like, the chapters are told by different characters. Why did you choose to do that?
For that exact reason that you said, because there's multiple storylines. And I traveled to six different countries researching Salt to the Sea. And it's fascinating. Human beings, we can experience the same event, and we'll all have drastically different experiences. different interpretations on it.
So I created four characters from four different regions, a Polish orphan, an art thief from East Prussia, a German sailor, and a Lithuanian nurse to show the story. through each individual lens. So how did this story structure help drive the action and the narrative? Well, it definitely helped with the pacing, and many people ask, did you write each character's sections and then just put them together?
I didn't. I head-hopped. I wrote a chapter by one character and then a chapter by another character, and I was sort of head-hopping, which really for me, it helped me to get the story going.
amplified the stakes and the emotion because I outlined but I don't outline too heavily so that's part of the creative process for me is that as I was leaving Amelia and going into Florian's next chapter I wasn't sure what was going to happen. Well I was neither as a reader I was like there's so many like cliffhangers that it was so exciting to read. Oh thank you.
Well do you have a question for Ruta Sepetys and want to know more about the writing process? Join the conversation and give us a call. Now it's time for more student questions. Let's take a look. I was wondering which character you think most relates to you or that you're most like and what is your favorite character in the book Salt of the Sea?
Why did you pick Amelia to be that certain age? Why was she 15? I would like to know why the author put Alfred in the book. He seemed kind of like a jerk and stuck up even though he was a low-ranking soldier. We'll give you the idea to end the story with a letter.
These are great questions. Yeah, once again, these are amazing questions. Let's talk about the character of Alfred. Okay, yep.
For me, I used Alfred for a couple of things. First, I needed eyes and ears into the show. I needed a character that could tell us what it was like to be on the Wilhelm Gustloff, to walk us down all of the hallways, into the cabins, into the dining rooms of the ship. So that became Alfred.
But also, Alfred is a study. of visibility. What happens to a young person who is ignored, who is rejected, repeatedly, who feels very isolated, and suddenly he is given a uniform, and he goes from being invisible to becoming very visible. What can happen with that?
And that was the question that I was asking with Alfred, and readers have very different interpretations of Alfred, which I love because it's a very different experience. It's a creative partnership. The author creates the text, but the reader brings the character to life.
And so I think there are mixed feelings on Alfred, but he was one of my favorite characters to write. I don't know what that says about me, that it's so easy to write an evil character. But no, I really loved writing Alfred.
I studied Adolf Hitler as a teen very intently in order to create the character of Alfred, and many of Alfred's tendencies and everything from, you know, you know, holding these butterflies hostage, to writing the letters, to Hannah lore. These were elements of Adolf Hitler's teenage years that I've woven into Alfred. Can you tell us which character you relate to the most?
Well, you know, people often ask if the characters in the book are part of me or based on me, and I think I write characters that I wish I could be like. I mean, these people are experiencing just such incredible things. things and my favorite character would be Emilia.
I think she is so full of hope and courage and generosity and to show kindness in an atmosphere of cruelty, you know, that's just so powerful and so I think my favorite character is Emilia. And why did you end the story with a letter? Yes, why did I end the story with a letter?
Well, when I researched, I interviewed so many many people and so many people asked me not to forget that the lives of the dead can affect the living. And that after these tragedies, there is war after war. And there was actually a family that explained that there were several bodies from the ship that washed up onto their shore. And how haunting it was, but also how they felt a deep reverence and responsibility to take care of these people and of these bodies that washed up. And I thought that was so powerful.
And I thought about Emilia who had lost everything that if she could finally find a way home so to speak and so I wrote that and created that letter to allow the reader to know that she was safe and she was loved and she made it home. I appreciated that as a reader because it really did feel like you were bringing it home and you were making her her very purposeful. We received many email questions and let's start with one from Kim from Muscogee High School.
She writes, when writing your characters do you start out writing with a character or even a gender in mind or do you find the voices of the characters and let specifics emerge on their own? What a wonderfully detailed question. I love this question. I absolutely have an image in my mind, not a physical image but A spirit of the character, an archetype.
Will they be a hero? Will they be generous? Will they be frightened? Will they be... and then through my interviews when I meet these people, some of their characteristics, even if at the end of their sentence they repeat a word when they say it was terrible, it was terrible.
I incorporate that rhythm into the characters. So I definitely have a very defined shape of the character before I start. Well, we have a phone call.
Caller, can you hear us? Do you have a question for Ms. Zepedes? I do.
What's your question? The main character from Fifty Shades, from Between Shades of Grey, sorry. From Between Shades of Grey.
Is it the same girl that Joanna wrote the letter to in Salt to the Sea? It is. It's the same character.
And I'm so grateful that you recognize that. As an author, so often we try to weave in little Easter eggs and hints for readers, and I'm so grateful you picked up on that. Yes, the character of Lena is actually Lena from Between Shades of Grey.
Thank you, caller. So, Ruta, you vividly described the characters in Salt to the Sea and their plight as refugees. Students at Stone Middle School as a class participated in an activity where they read the book and then they thought about what they would like to bring and what they would need to bring if they had to leave their homes.
Let's take a look at what they packed in their virtual suitcases. You are packing a bag. representative of what you would need to have with you if you were traveling hundreds of miles to escape what would you want with you I'm putting in like a pocket knife and a scarf to keep Amelia warm and a pocket knife for her protection some of the things I want to put in are like a first aid kit because I'm a Boy Scout and if you do get injured you can kind of self manage yourself by wrapping up a twisted ankle in my suitcase I would pack food and water and money and also I'd bring out like a family album photo book so like to not feel so lonely.
Some other things I want to bring is a coat so I can stay warm during the winter. Fire starting kit also just stay warm. A pocket knife so like if I got into trouble I can fight with that.
I would probably bring blankets to keep me warm so I don't get like hypothermia or something. A first-aid kit. because from what I read in the book, a lot of the characters get blisters and cuts on their feet.
Food, water, clothes, and what I packed, like my sentimental item I packed, I fixed with my family, because my family means a lot to me, and I don't know what I'd do without them. Also, I'm bringing a pocket knife. I'm also bringing gloves, especially important when it's winter time, you want to keep your hands warm.
I'm bringing rope, because it's helpful if you need to. secure something. And I would bring a book and maybe my sketchbook because in case I get bored. My family picture that my entire family got, I think it was a few years ago, that's really important to me.
Probably a map and compass so I know where I'm going. Water and food of course so you can have the basic necessities. Debating if I should bring a tent because it's very big but also provides shelter.
The students packed very thoughtful and practical items and not one of them included a cell phone. Isn't that great? Yeah. So what did you think? I definitely want them to be my wingmen.
They were so prepared and so thoughtful, and had really thought through not only the time period, but the weather, the circumstances. The one girl mentioned, oh, I think that they were getting blisters. And I thought it was really great.
So we have a phone call from a student right now. OK. Michaela, you're on the phone.
Do you have a question? Yes. Please answer. I'm like two middle school and my question is what types of books did you read as a kid to inspire you to write your book?
Oh, thanks for asking that well as a kid I read all sorts of All sorts of books, but believe it or not. I love to read thrillers when I was young I loved High stakes and a sense of pacing and although my books are very different than thrillers I guess one could say because they're historical I do try to put in that sense of pacing. I try to end my chapters in cliffhangers so you keep going. So believe it or not, thrillers and scary books really helped prepare me to write historical fiction.
So we have another phone call. I believe James is on the line. What is your question? My question is, I was wondering why Ruda had to kill Ingrid.
Could you repeat that? I think the question is about Sweet Ingrid, which is a spoiler, and here we go. We love the spoilers, right? I think the question was, why did I have to kill Ingrid? For those of you who haven't read the book yet, there's a scene in Salt to the Sea where these refugees are crossing the ice, and I interviewed several people who had to cross the ice to get to the ships on the other side.
The Soviet planes were flying overhead and shooting through the ice, and there were refugees who fell through the ice. And I wanted to portray that in a way that would really pull on strings of empathy and compassion. And I didn't know that I was going to kill Ingrid until they started walking across the ice. And as I was writing, myself was saying, no, Ingrid. So to the caller, I was just as sad as you were that...
Ingrid fell through the ice, yeah. So I wanted to share this email with you. It's from a teacher, Jennifer Stewart, who writes, I teach ninth grade at Auburn Junior High School, and one of my favorite books to teach each year is Between Shades of Gray. Here is an email question from one of her students, Lily, who writes, how did writing Between Shades of Gray affect you emotionally? Oh, what a lovely question.
Thank you, Lily. It really affected me emotionally because the things that I was writing about in my first novel, Between Shades of Grey, they happened to my own family members. So as I was writing, emotionally, I had to come to terms with the fact that my freedom and every liberty that I enjoy came at the expense of my family members. And that was so difficult reading.
and researching about what had happened, interviewing people, and then creating characters that encompassed my own family story that I had not known about for many years. So it was painful, a lot of tears. I cried buckets of tears writing Between Shades of Grey.
Well, we have another phone call. This one is Caitlin from New Jersey. Do you have a question for the author? Yes. Go ahead, caller.
Okay. Did Rita ever visit the Wilhelm Gustloff as she was watching, I mean writing the book? Oh that's a great question.
Did I ever visit the Wilhelm Gustloff as I was writing the book? Well the Wilhelm Gustloff, the sunken ship, it now lies off the coast of Poland. And I did travel to Gdynia, to the port where the ship boarded and departed.
and went out on a boat with divers, and I myself am not a diver, so I did not explore the ship, but there were three very influential divers that helped me with my research, and one is a diver named Lee Bishop, who has explored over 500 shipwrecks, including the Titanic and the Lusitania. And Lee told me that there's just no comparison, that the Gustloff has such an ominous, haunting feeling, and Lee was really able to bring that ship that some people call the ghost ship to life. So that's as close as I got to exploring the Wilhelm Gustloff myself. We have another email question. This one is from Alexis at Overbrook High School, and she writes...
What do you hope readers take away from Salt to the Sea and Between Shades of Grey? Oh, I hope that they take away that what's important is that we can't choose our hardships, but we can choose how we face our hardships. And these are lessons that I've learned from my own family.
And in both Between Shades of Grey and Salt to the Sea, we have young characters, innocent victims. of war and vengeful regimes. But despite the fact that they've lost their country, they've lost their family, they don't lose their courage and they don't lose their spirit.
And in many cases we think it might be cliche, oh love keeps us alive. I have met these people and I know that it's the truth. So what I hope they take away is how we face our hardship will determine our fate. That's a very powerful message. We have another phone call.
This one is from Deanna. Caller, do you have a question? Yes, I have a question. Go ahead. What was your emotions while writing the book?
What was the most, what was your emotion while writing the book? Oh, while writing Salt to the Sea, I felt extremely haunted. Everything about the ship and the fact that it's such an unknown disaster, and I felt haunted also because there's this unique dynamic that happens.
When you go searching for story, the universe responds, and story comes searching for you. And there would be a piece of information that I would need and I couldn't find it, and then suddenly it would appear. Someone would email me out of the blue, divers.
who had illegally explored the guslof saw online that i was writing about it they sent me boxes of things that they had retrieved which of course now are going into museums um so there was there was definitely a haunting a haunting feeling while writing salt to the sea we have another phone call question for you this one is from jalea caller do you have your question ready yeah go ahead um what experiences Did you go through while writing the book? Well, while writing the book, the experiences first, meeting with survivors and speaking with survivors. There was a woman who lives in Georgia, and she was on the ship when it sank. They were in the dining room.
She was with her mother and her younger brother. And the experience of hearing this woman relate. Exactly what had happened that evening, I incorporated it into the book, and she was crying, and I was crying, and so I think these experiences, I hope that there's an emotional authenticity that I was able to capture, because when I'm feeling these these emotions as callers are asking about, I don't want to set them aside and try to then write the book later. I really do want to weave them into the characters so as the readers are reading the book, they feel attached to them.
You know, they're cheering for them. They cry for them because that's when a statistic becomes a human being. And it's that emotion that opens that moment of connection.
And when we feel that connection, that's when we can make a difference. And that's when we can bring this history out of the dark. So even though I'm feeling a lot of things and I love that these questions... I really do try to put it all in the book.
Well, Ruta, thank you so much for being with us today and for speaking with us. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me, and thank you to all of the educators and the great questions and the callers. I appreciate it so much. For more information about Ruta Cepedes, visit her website.
For more information about Meet the Author, check out our website. I'm Emily Godfrey. Keep reading, keep writing, and keep dreaming.
Thank you