Transcript for:
Insights from Chase Hughes on Behavior and Healing

Chase Hughes. Yes, sir. My new good and great friend. I feel very honored. Um likewise. Yeah. I don't know whether this is the first Chase Hughes podcast or the first Brain Supreme podcast. We're kind of deciding that as that goes. But um uh very excited to be speaking with you after um we got introduced by one of your mentees who also was a business associate. Yeah. And then you got to try Brain Supreme and then I got to start learning about you and then we're kind of hitting this nice little friendship off um of like-mindedness. Um but this is this will go out for my list. So give us like a 3minut Chase Hughes CV. So I uh did 20 years in the military and during that time in the military I became just absolutely obsessed with human behavior. And essentially I got turned down by a girl and I Googled how to tell when girls like you. And I printed off all these body language things and I realized that you could start to see behind the curtain when you're talking to people way farther than I thought was possible. Mhm. And the better I got at it, the less social anxiety I had. And I reached this point where you you're able to see fears and insecurities and every single point that somebody doesn't feel like they're enough or that they're good enough. And you just you start to realize like, wow, everyone screwed up. Everybody's suffering. And I think it turned into like that became addictive because it it stopped my social anxiety. And at the end of the day, I I I'm obsessed to this day. I the novelty still hasn't worn off for me. And I during those 20 years in the military, I got better and better, and I had a a great budget to be able to go out and do a lot of these trainings and and develop these skills. And I went to uh interrogation and interview training in the military and all this stuff and then got out of the military. My book hit the bestseller list. Had now have a few bestsellers and now I train intelligence operatives. I train businesses and CEOs and all kinds of people and influence and persuasion and the the big three which we can talk about uh later if you want to. Yeah. So, I've watched So, for like the Brain Supreme crowd out there that's going to get this, like Chase's podcasts are great. Like, you really kind of can't go wrong and he's done almost all the big ones and Rogan's coming up. Um, so they're fantastic. But I wanted to ask you, having like seen and been inspired by your work, like um two questions I had primarily like how long did your work make you self-conscious for? like uh where you were almost uncomfortably self-analyzing yourself, your own body language, how you're being perceived. How long did it take you with your work before you could just flow with it and relax? And how long was your period of like intense introspection and self-consciousness, if there even was one? Yeah, there was a big one. Yeah. So I think it was probably maybe a year, maybe six months to where every time I learned this new behavior, I would catch myself doing it and then I would stop and then I I would be very managed. So I I remember just being rigid, like super rigid in conversations, awkwardly weird. What age you at here? Just to kind of get 21. Oh, so yeah. So you So you went straight to the military? Yeah. Okay. when I was 17. 17. So this is like you're putting yourself through college now. You're getting your you're put in in a way metaphorically. Yeah. Like this is your bachelor's degree in behavioral sciences, behavioral sciences and so forth. Okay. Uh so I did that for a while and I and I just I remember one night very well. I was at this dinner with my friends. It wasn't fancy or anything, but we were in Wiki Beach and I just had this epiphany moment where I was just like, "This is exhausting. It's exhausting just constantly worried about how am I being perceived?" And that's the only thought that I really had. And I remember this moment, this kind of I don't know what it was, this moment of clarity of like people aren't attracted to perfection. No one likes perfect people. and this this like weight like I was carrying some 100 pound backpack and someone like cut the straps off like it was gone and something happened to to make it go away and I'm grateful for whatever that was but uh it's I think anybody who starts studying body language you're going to be self-critical for a little while and there's a phase you go through and I think you you also get into once you get out of that phase then you move into a sad phase because all you're seeing is like people concealing suffering, shame, and guilt. Those three. And that's where like it's it's kind of such a universal thing, which makes it it's sad. Like we have this pandemic epidemic of loneliness around the world right now. And we're more connected than ever, but everyone's pretending not to be lonely, not to be ashamed of themselves. And it's I wish we could move past it. And that's what a lot of what I try to do with my company, with my clients, is get them through that. Yeah. Where they their confidence just goes through the roof. Yeah. Couple uh things on that. We talked about this yesterday social hangout. Like part of my problem with um cannabis is that certain types of cannabis are too much. Like I totally get caught in that self-consciousness and it is boring. Like at my age I'm like, "Oh I just wanted to relax and chill out." So that's why you know a micro doing also psychedelics and plant medicines they're much more in the moment. Um so yeah I I totally relate to that how uh self-consciousness and and self-criticism just gets exhausting. Yeah. It's like um it's weird because you're not even like caught up in the anxiety of it where you're where you're feeling unworthy, you're feeling insecure, you're feeling inadequate at a certain age, which you hit really young, you're just exhausted by like, "Oh, this is this is boring." Like, I want to just be present, you know? So, that's very kind of interesting. The next question as I've been kind of studying a lot of your podcasts and also your demeanor like the way you come off in podcasts like how do you do you have any concern that you're could be cuz obviously and I know you you're committed to making um everyday folks of all different levels of success, economic success and so forth um happier, healthier, more well adjusted. But you're giving so sociopaths and psychopaths like a really good operating model as well. Uh is that ever like a source of concern for you or is there something about um psychopathy um where sociopaths and psychopaths like they they they can't do it all the way. So there's still going to be some chinks in the armor. Man, that's a fabulous question. So, to answer the first part of that, I view it as kind of like uh I'm a psychological arms dealer. Mhm. But in the best way that if you read my book, like this giant ass Yeah. chunk of paper right there. I got to get the camera. Yeah. The behavioral ops manual. Just like that first. It's quite something. the first half of it, if you read it and get really, really good at behavior profiling. Even if you're a psychopath, some empathy is going to start creeping in. A little bit of empathy is going to start creeping in. Um, but if I'm if I'm Smith and Wesson, 99.9% of people are going to use what I make for good. Mhm. And I've just got to sleep at night because of that. Yeah. And there's more more people that'll get it for good. Yeah, I think we are we have been dealing as a species with with psychopaths and sociopaths for a long time. Really long time. There's nothing new. So, I think that we have evolved an instinct when we get around those people to not say that, oh, that's a psychopath because no, not even I can spot a psychopath like within a couple hours. It you can't just can't do it. But we all have this little feeling of something's off, something doesn't add up, something's not right. So, we get those little feelings and a lot of people ignore them because the psychopath created so much dopamine in their brain. Mh. Uh, and so for anybody out there like any conversation you have where it feels absolutely fantastic and then right afterward you don't feel good anymore. Can hold on. I want to call a timeout. um maybe for people listening but for myself like draw the distinction between sociopath and psychopath because I think we I think most people meet a lot more sociopaths kind of along the way but so what's the distinction between in your definition between psychopath and sociopath if you if you just wanted like a basic post-it note uh version of that sociopaths have no concern for human feelings psychopaths have no concern for human life there we go. That would be the diff. Okay, great. Got it. But anytime like if you have a conversation and it feels good and then afterwards you would need to return to that to feel good again, you may have been dealing with a psychopath. So it if you have a great conversation with a grounded person who is humble and kind and honest, you're going to feel good after that conversation. You're going to look back on it and smile. It's gonna the good feeling is going to linger for a while. Yeah. So that's one of the key indicators that our brain is sensing, our ancestor part of our brain is sensing something and trying to say, "Hey, something's not right." Yeah. I It's interesting. Um I had a real hard time. I I I had a um a youth football coach with one of my kids recently who's a sociopath. And when I identified it, like it it I had like 18 months of real PTSD and anger issues about it and so forth. Like it's it's kind of overwhelming. And their ability to manipulate and control environments and emotionally destabilize environments and then the way they cleave the um with children it was just the worst because like the kids didn't know anything. Like if you were a second string or something like you were completely you got no training, no understanding, no empathy. You were just non-existent. Didn't matter. And then the first string kids were even always questioning. So like that young person's sense of worth had to be filtered through the head coach in order for them to feel good about themselves. And so as a dad observing this like it was literally making me crazy. And he was doing the same thing amongst the adult coaching staff. And um it's really traumatizing for people around it, man. Like it can, you know, like in the cannabis industry and so forth, like I had a a lot of people who like did me really dirty and really wrong. I think about them far less than this Yeah. four months I spent with this one football coach. Yeah. So I'll tell you the reason. Uh, so step one of the sociopath playbook is for anyone that's in my circle, anyone around me, my first step is to get them to associate feeling good with pleasing me. And to get them to seek external validation for who they are, their self-worth, feeling good, all of that. So I make all of your who you are is external. Yeah. Something outside of you. Then I I make that first and then I become that. So the first step is let me make you kind of look around you to compare yourself with other people. You'll hear them talk about other people a lot like oh this guy's doing this that guy's doing that this kid he's I don't know. So there's a lot of external comparisons and then they they start getting you into that mindset and the next step is I become that source of validation and feeling good and dopamine and that's that's where that's the same way that cults work. Yes. like pe somebody coming out of a cult. It would seem like even if they knew it was a cult, the day they got out of that cult, they're going to rejoice and celebrate and go buy a birthday cake and, you know, have a great time. It's bad. They have to withdraw and they go through all kinds of stuff trying to get out of that cuz their brain is rewiring itself. Yeah. It was the first person I went after physically to beat the out of them. You're a big dude, too. I'm a big dude. Yeah. I would have done happily done some real damage, but some of the other coaches and my wife were like, "Please don't." Like I was um it's because if you're recognizing this happening in real time, it makes you feel so impotent as a man not to do something about it. And then that carries with it like a residual trauma that stays with you for quite a while because like you're they took your masculinity from you like you didn't protect other people around you. Yeah. Really gets in your head. So that's in your genes. Yes. To do that. Yes. Um but also like um that's a really good deed. Like if you're training people how to see that and how to process that and how to identify that and how to also like institutionally expose that. Yeah. Like that's that's important work because those people can do a lot of damage. They really can. Yeah. And they especially once they get into politics or they become bureaucrats or the mayor or congressman, which there's a lot of those people. And one thing to remember is all sociopaths are narcissists 100%. But but not all narcissists are sociopaths. Not all narcissists are sociopaths. Got it. So it's good to remember that. You may be meeting a narcissist who's showing these signs, but they actually do possess the ability to feel and understand and that kind of Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty wild. What do you um like Okay. So, if you're working with a if you're working with a sociopath and you have to because like you got to provide for your family or whatever it is, it's a first job, you need to get the you know the the notches on your resume. So, what's your advice on how to manage dealing with a sociopath and then how to manage dealing with somebody who you think might be a psychopath? It would be the same two things for both sociopath or psychopath. When you're dealing with a psychopath, there's if you just do these two things, and there's a whole long list I could give you, but if you just get these two right, you'll be good. You'll be good to go. So the first one is I'm going to be more calm than that person in every interaction. Yeah. I will never escalate anything. All right. And the second one is I will be nonreactive. So even if they say something shocking, my eyebrows aren't going to go up. I'll say, "Oh, yeah. Okay, that makes sense." I will be as non-reactive as humanly possible. When you're looking at any conversation, even if it's not with a sociopath, the person reacting the least to the other person is in charge. Mhm. Um, so in that situation, and I encourage people all the time, never ever ever view the world in terms of hierarchy. It will make you fail every time because you're you're constantly worried about external validation. So the the mistake you make in dealing with sociopaths, not you but yeah people is am I above them? Are they above me right now? Am I being subordinated? All of those that's all concerned for hierarchy and we have to get rid of it. Am I calm and am I the calmst person in the room? Am I non-reactive? This is all internal. I'm in control of me only and I'm only worried about those two things. I'm non-reactive because they feed on those emotional reactions. So, they start to realize this this fishing spot's not working. They're not going to bring their boat back there and keep fishing. Okay. But then how do you advise if you're in an organization or team and it's going down like this person's directing it in a really destructive manner? Do you do you be sedicious? Do you try to conspire with your workmates and and and expose them? like how would you Okay, so you just you just taught me how to manage my own emotional state. Let's talk about how to deal with them directly. Yeah. So they'll use something called fog fogg and that stands for fear, obligation, and guilt. Fear, obligation, guilt. And you need to understand they'll typically have one primary currency when they deal with these things. It's either fear, obligation, or guilt. And when they use one of those, all you do is you take that technique they're using and pull it out and like, let me grab this light over here. I'm going to shine this light right on it and say, "Let's both look at this together." So once you bring something into the sunlight, it's a disinfectant. It takes a lot of the power, like 90% of the power away from it. Um, so let's say like you're using a a guilt tactic on me and you're the sociopath just for this uh pretend example. I might say something like uh Adam, I can tell that it sounds like you're very passionate about this, but I could be totally wrong and I probably am, but it sounds like you're wanting me to feel guilty for not helping you with that report. And I know that's probably not your intent. So, I I really want them to know that I I know exactly what you're doing. Oh, you know, and maybe I heard that wrong, but I'm still pulling that thing out. And I want them to know that here's what you're doing and I see it. Maybe other people see it. So, any of those techniques you you hear is maybe I read this wrong. It it sounded to me and I could be wrong that you wanted to do or you wanted me to feel X, Y, or Z. And I know I don't think you intended that at all, but that's just how it sounded for a second. The second is the 3-se secondond rule. Anytime they speak to you, pause to think about what they say for 3 seconds, not as a tactic. If you do the 3-se secondond thing as a tactic to like win over somebody, it's going to look weird and awkward. If you do it to consciously think about and consider what they just said, use that time instead of weaponizing that time. Mhm. To think about what they said before you respond. And that is absolutely powerful when you're dealing with these people. The final one is and well the final one I'll talk about here when they say something that's like gaslighting, manipulative, maybe using fear and obligation together. They're kind of like in this really run-on sentence, which you typically hear, especially with gaslighters, very run-on sentence. Ask them to repeat it. So the more they repeat it, they have to go back and gaslight again. Yes. ask them to do it again to so they are having to put their thing out there where you're h where you get to hear every word again and they've got to make it a lot more public so they're not just brushing over a bunch of stuff. Would you say that if you're um a newer person in an organization and the sociopath has the hierarchical power over you within the institution? and they're your boss or in a superior in some way, like is there any point in bringing it up or just protect yourself, get your get your credits, get your paycheck, and then when you're ready to make the move, you know, step out of that company like like how much would you advise a young person getting into like the professional space to to take the sociopath on? I would never take them on. I'd work with them. Uh so essentially, you become Dwight Shroo uh in in that situation. U but you kind of go up and you still do those things you're like maybe I'm hearing this completely wrong. I know you've been you've managed a lot of people. You want to help them to feel important. You've been a lead in a leadership position for a long time so I'm sure you didn't mean this but I maybe I heard this wrong but it sounded like X Y and Z. Yeah. So it's a compliment call out the technique. Compliment call out technique. And what's the likelihood that the sociopath is going to identify as you're the one person that's not, you know, that's that that's essentially calling in some kind of way and they're going to get forced out like uh one of two things will happen. Uh number one, they'll say, "I need to use this person's less manipulatable." Uh which means you're also not going to get as many rewards. Mhm. Uh number two is I need to be more covert with this person. So, I need to try different tactics and they if they view it as a game, then they'll just be more covert. Yeah. What's the um I guess being in the military, you might have dealt with this. What's the longest you've kind of been able to hang in there with uh with a sociopathic boss or colleague? Well, the thing in the military, you don't choose your boss. Yeah. And you can't choose your subordinates. They're chosen for you. And you can't like fire people. So you've got to train them. Yeah. And make them better. So I've had sociopaths above me and working for me before. And it's a challenge. And the longest I've gone and you just have to you have to deal with it. And so the way that I've dealt with it is to send messages through people to that person as much as I possibly could. Everything was written on email. if they had a conversation with me, I would write them a follow-up email later of everything that we we talked about. So everything so they know everything they say. And even if it was it was mundane, they said, "Hand me that water bottle over there and then we're going to meet next Tuesday." I would write them a follow-up email. Hey, glad I was able to get that water for you. We have this meeting next Tuesday. So their brain starts learning everything that I do with this person is going to be on record. Yeah. So it just it's a very covert subtle way of putting them on notice. And how set I guess the well let's deal with sociopaths first cuz we we know more sociopaths. We probably interact and deal with more sociopaths. How set is the sociopathic brain? Can they unlearn that? Can they become present, comfortable, empathetic? No. No. Absolutely not. Wow. So, when a sociopath goes to therapy, they they learn masking techniques. Here's how to ask questions that sound empathetic. Here's how to make conversation. Uh, it's it's typically a there are some research projects underway right now that are exploring laser guided laser modifications to the amygdala. Uh so these people will have misshapen or different volume of amygdala than normal people. So they're doing some studies on it maybe that we can cure it by changing the physiology instead of the psychology. And how about with your because I know you're adept with um some psy psychedelics and so forth. Any um evidence that the sociopathic tendencies get mitigated through psychedelic experiences? I haven't seen any research. My personal opinion just as a neuro dude is that if I think there's a chance, a very good chance that if you get a high dose like 5 g plus of psilocybin or something that these people could get their first ever feeling of empathy. Not that it's going to permanently install it, but now they have a reference point. They they finally get to see what everyone else feels because every sociopath thinks everyone's like them. They don't think that you're manipulatable and you're not like them at all. They think the world is just all lies and trickery. Yeah. So they finally get that first feeling of like, "Oh my god, when I saw my girlfriend in college cry, this is why she cried." So they finally get to get that taste. And that's their first one. and then a couple months later you do another one. I think that could be transformational for them. Yeah, I really do. Okay, that was great. And that's a kind of a really strong introduction to you and your work. Here's the question that I think I'm going to ask probably every guest that I sit down with. Um, the world seems pretty nuts right now. Maybe for some of us less nuts, maybe for other of us more nuts. What's your personal cosmology? like you're a you've got a lot of high netw worth, high influence people. You've been in the military at high levels of intelligence. Like what's your take on the world? Like like what's going on in the world? And it doesn't this can just be completely conjecture your opinion everything like what's your take on the world? It is what's happening? I think the I think there are people I don't know who and anybody that claims to know have all those answers I would be very suspicious you know when they say I've got it figured out. Yeah. But I think there are people that want a globalist approach. They want the one world government whatever globalist means. Uh they're they're globalist people and I think most of them are over the age of 85 and I think that they are so narcissistic that they sped up the plan. The plan that should have taken 20 years they tried to do in five or six. Yeah. Uh and that was too much too fast and people like snap back like a rubber band like this is this is weird. This is unusual. And I think it woke a lot of people up. And I think there's another theory out there uh that we're transitioning into this biblical spiritual phase cuz we've been in the bull phase of Taurus for so long and now we're moving into this Pisces. Whether or not you believe it. Yeah. I don't know whether I don't I don't believe it or disbelieve it. There's information out there that's been there for thousands and thousands of years. And it's it's at least interesting that we're seeing all the signs that are so that we're supposed to see for this transition into this um this Aquarius phase right now. And even at the end of the bull, like this is where we during this period of the bull, the to the period of Taurus, we had the the hepher, the baby calfs and stuff that all across Israel and all that. And now we're in this new thing. And whether or not it's true, I don't know. But we're definitely there's something happening around the world right now where there's some either a spiritual awakening or it's really hard to put your finger on. I think people are realizing that how much is fake. And I mean you we've got maybe I hope I don't get in trouble for this but the Cartoon Network has more viewers than CNN. Oh yeah. And the top podcasts I mean you put like Rogan, Danny Jones, you know um Chris Williamson Patrick Bet David. knocking the out of all the major networks put together on a daily basis don't meet their viewership and I think it's because people are disgusted with simulations now everything's simulated the simulated narratives on on TV everything's fabricated and fake and made for some kind of narrative to script how how it's being perceived in a very specific way and I think people are waking up to it and I think they're sick of it and I think we're craving people are craving some kind of authenticity to where I'm going to watch a guy. I have no idea where it's going to go. You know, I'm I'm going to get this three-hour thing. It's totally authentic. It's purely raw. I may have a DNA scientist on there talking about LSD for no reason, just cuz it's fun to talk about. So, I think we're we're starving for something real and we're seeing things. Um, and this is a great, um, I think for anybody listening, one thing I've told my kids since they were little, if you see a product for sale and they can't tell you the problem that they're solving, you need to be terrified. You need to be very scared because the problem they're solving is not something that they want to talk about, right? Um, so my son, his name's William. The other day he brings me this, shows me this thing for this new mask that you put on, like a VR headset thing made by a big social media company. And uh, I told him like, go to the website for that and find on this website that's advertising this new product. What is the problem that they're solving? Because you look at Amazon, they can get you packages faster. We're going to do it overnight. They they're very open about the pro problems they're solving. He couldn't find it. Uh and I said that's that needs to be the biggest red flag of your life. Yeah. The problem they're trying to solve is loneliness and a desire to escape from life. And that's horrifying, right? And it's an anesthetic. So they're not selling some productive VR goggles. They're selling anesthetic, right? Which is sad. That's a good that's a good piece of wisdom for a young person because then they can discover it on their own as well, come to the realization, which is important. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned about this craving of authenticity cuz um like with music, particularly with my 16-year-old um who like 13 it was, you know, what I call mumble rap and um uh what's the um kind when they run somebody's voice through the autotune? Autotune. you know, it's like mumble rap and autotune, but now that like like 15 16 it's like Noah Kahan, Zack Bryan, like the music is like pure singer songwriter authenticity. So there's this interesting thing and also like uh what's both my boys are kind of jocks, all right? Um one's like football, basketball, the other's high level soccer. Um, but the jock kids, like in this day and age, like they're they're really nice kids. Like the whole like maybe when we were kids, like the jock bullying and all stuff like that's that's kind of been blasted out of them. But the other thing is that they don't want anything to do with like wokeism, uh, inauthenticity. They're ruthless on each other in the way they take the piss out of each other and joke and tease. Um, and they demand a certain level of authenticity about that. And then musically what the kids are kind of attracted to these days is that same push back towards authenticity. Like there's still, you know, as we saw like even in last night's Super Bowl, there's still like this big cultural push for autotune, mumble rap, all this kind of But like, you know, I'm fine with kids like they want to go see like, you know, like belter, singer, songwriter kind of things like that, which is which is really um that's really encouraging. They're surrounded by everything fake on Instagram and all that every day. The people are fake, the makeup is fake, the boobs are fake, everything that you're seeing on there is some simulation of something that is real. How much does it affect you as a body language reader with all the surgeries and Botox? Like how much does it affect your ability to pick a jury, discern if somebody's lying if they've had different Botoxes and they have an expressionless forehead? Or is just the fact they would push their forward to an expressionless space an indication of their psychology? That is one indication. But if if a body part's not moving, I'll ignore it and look at something else. Oh, okay. So you get the cue from somewhere else. Yeah. Okay. And I mean it's not just body language. We're looking at statement analysis as well. So like one of the famous questions uh that I ask is uh I want to determine whether you know what locus of control means. Yeah. So a person either believes the world happens to them or they happen to the world. So, if I'm uh I did one case for a major grocery store where a lady slipped on a piece of cantaloupe or something and hurt her back and I was not working for the lady. So, I needed to find people that have an internal locus of control. Right? So, so we just asked the question, how does a person catch a cold? That's it. Right? So, we get one side of the people saying, "Well, these kids are wiping boogers on the escalators. Nobody's washing their hands. People are coughing all over the place. They're not wearing masks." That just give all of these reasons, right? Then the other group of people says, "Well, I catch a cold because maybe my diet wasn't good. I didn't take vitamins. I didn't sanitize when I should. I didn't wear a mask. It was all their fault." Yeah. Um, so it's fascinating that we don't need that much body language if you know the right questions that are going to reveal the psychology that you need. Interesting. Okay. Interesting. Um, so my followup going back a little bit towards the conspiracy your personal cosmology. um is I okay I have uh there's two there's two spheres of the way conspiracy happens so precoid and pre-epstein's island I believed in what I called the um theory of confluence okay that my shitty greedy idea goes to some you know Bilderberg or some international gathering and it at Davos and it meets your shitty greedy idea and we're like hey we can make a bigger shittier even more greedy idea Yeah. And so it just happens by confluence that these ideas they kind of come together. All right. I've known for years about single origin point like whatever Illuminati, black nobility, you know, whatever you might want to call it, but that there's like either one or many centralized organ organizing points where the shitty greedy ideas um are coming are centrally organized beforehand. So precoid pre-epsine island I believed in the theory of confluence. After co I have no choice but to now believe in these single origin points largecale planning. Yes largecale planning where in your kind of cosmological view is it confluence or single origin point or a few different points? I think on on the large scale that's single point. I think there is a very direct outcome, but I think there's a lot of confluence that's helping everybody to get there. So like there is a ship captain, there's a navigator on that ship, but and they have a GPS waypoint they need to reach. Let's say they've got to sail to Tokyo and they know where they're going. There's a whole team of officers and stuff on that ship that know the destination. The guy running the engine doesn't really know where they're going, but he's participating. The guy cooking the food down in the messole doesn't really, he's not involved with that navigation, but he's part of it without knowing that they're part of it. So, I think that confluence is the other wealth, like ultra wealth, ultra high netw worth people that might be participating and helping the ship to run while not really knowing what the end destination is. Yeah, that's how I view it. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then there's the autocratic class that that that basically does the dirty work. Um and that's reductionism and paycheckism. I think that hey I got to feed my family. This is what I do. You know I don't they I'm just doing this one little single part. I'm not you know I'm not the guy making the plan. I'm just the guy following this little part. So, I think they work in conjunction with one another, which is what's so interesting about what Trump's doing right now, which we were speaking a little bit on the way out over here, is that he's literally isolating the head of the snake and and deincentivizing the financial autocratic class that's underneath it, saying, "Hey, maybe you might get investigated. Maybe you were involved in some pretty bad um here's an eight-month buyout and we're probably going to look the other way or if you're sticking with this job, you better be squeaky clean or you're going to take the heat for the the direction that you were taking from above. So, there's some real fifth generation warfare going on right now. Some ninth dimension chess. It's it's fascinating. As a parent, it's really exhausting. And it's not left and right. No, that's the ultimate deception is that people will say, "These are the Democrats doing this. These are the far-right Republicans doing this crazy stuff." And I was just on a podcast a couple days ago talking about SCOPS. And if you watch just what happened with when Trump and Elon go into the US aid building, there's two people to pay attention to, two types. one type of person is going to be very violently yelling and screaming and protesting against them doing this and and going out to stop these crazy things that they're stopping another then that's mostly people that are on the left. Mhm. But there's another group of people on the right that became very very silent very quickly. So who became loud and who got really quiet? It's not a left and right issue by any means. It's just corruption. Yeah. And corruption is not an a partisan issue. No, it's both sides of the aisle. And we need to clean it out on both sides. And you may not be a like I'm not the biggest fan of Trump. Uh he's not my favorite person in the world, but if I'm if I'm going under heart surgery, I'd rather I want a psychopath. I want a narcissist. I want a person that is cares about the results and doesn't care about me. They they care about just getting the result. Of course, they care about me, but they're not going to be in there hyperventilating. They're not going to be freaking out. They're not going to be overwhelmed by emotion. If the surgery something goes wrong and they've got to do some bypass thing or the power in the hospital goes out and he's got to use a handsaw, I want that guy. I want that guy with with no emotion who's just said, "I'm the best surgeon in the world. I'm gonna do the s." He doesn't care about Chase Hughes, right? He cares about the his numbers and his stats, right? I want that guy. So, I'm not inviting him to my house. Yeah. But he can cut me open. Um, I know that you do some political advisory uh work and coaching. So, I don't want to lead you anywhere that you're not comfortable, but like what's your psychological what's your body language? What's your psychological behavioral take on let's just do because they're the two most influential right now. Let's just do Trump and Musk. Yeah. What's your take on those guys? Cuz I'm I'm so confused. I mean, I love a lot of the things that are happening right now, but there's other things that seem to be happening, you know, like, you know, like I I I love the the momentum and push for truth and getting it all exposed out there. I don't necessarily love that it's all getting narrowed down and filtered through X and filtered through Starlink because then there's another singular point of control that can be completely corrupted. So, I am I don't know. savior or antichrist? Like where what's what's your take on these two guys if you're comfortable with it because I know you might have some professional relationships there. That's all right. I think both of them if the two things I look at with a politician is passion and purpose. Those two things. So what are they most passionate about? And with some politicians you have no idea. You don't know what they're passionate about. They'll just they'll go to one city and say one thing and use a certain accent. their whole entire personality like a sociopath will completely change when they go to that next city. Yeah. Um but I think if your if passion and purpose is clear like it was for JFK and JFK had the clearest passion, the clearest purpose. He communicated his plans in advance and wanted to execute on everything that he said. I loved I love any politician that has clear passion and purpose because they're going to be authentic. And I think that's one of the reasons, same thing with with Joe Rogan is that Trump is real. It's not scripted. He's not going off qards. He's not He walked onto the Joe Rogan podcast. There's no notes, right? He doesn't bring a iPad. He doesn't put questions ahead in advance. He doesn't demand to see the video. And even you can hear listen to Joe talk about it. He said like he slid this release across the table. Trump didn't read it. Just yeah, whatever. Release whatever you want. And that's what people are craving. And I think we're so we're so disgusted with fake stuff that that's why he won that election. Yeah, for sure. And it's the same with Elon. Elon's not afraid to like dance and look silly and say exactly what's on his mind. Like when he's talking to the Disney people who were threatening to take ads off of his uh platform. I loved that. Yeah. And there's that one where he's borderline crying and doesn't try to conceal it. Uh when he's talking about when uh Buzz Aldron was disappointed in him, he doesn't try to hide that. And it's it's refreshing. Like our ancestral part of our brain is wired to seek certainty and predictability. So, if I have someone that's clearly talking about what I can expect in the future, my brain goes to it. We don't follow the best person. We follow the most followable. Mhm. Write that one down if you're listening. Our brains are hardwired to follow the clearest message. Follow the clearest message. Yeah. Okay. You know, it's interesting. Um, and not to kind of get this narcissistically, but so when it comes to Brain Supreme and when it comes to marketing, first off, I have a brand. So, I have a wealth of coaching experience. Like, I probably had more one-on-one coaching conversations about how to micro dose than anybody in the world. There's much better mushroom people. There's much better brain people. Like, I'm not even close. I'm not even, you know, I'm not even in the top 10%. But, I've had a lot of conversations on how to do this, probably more than anybody else. And so when it comes to like you know marketing in this day and age like I'm like I want to give everything away immediately upfront and then if you're interested keep listening. If you're not interested I don't want to string you along. Like we just had this thing there was a a health guru who you know my wife and my son have some persistent health issues. And so we, you know, we paid for the first level, which we thought was going to be a whole kind of introduction as to what their philosophy is, but basically all it was was a time share meeting. So we paid 150 bucks to get the time share meeting and then I'm getting sweated for what's going to be $9,000. And I freaked out on the guy. Like I got so angry. And I'm like, look, as a small business owner, like the fact that you're dealing with health and treating like time shares, like total So yes, like what you're saying about Trump is so true. like just that upfront authenticity. People completely crave that and they respond to that and they've never needed it more. And the thing that's so shocking in this day and age is that like you might not like what's happening in the mind of people where they can't perceive that and they would think like literally Camala Harris was the most one of the most inauthentic public figures I've ever seen in my life. She's not even a good one. Like some people might find Gavin Newsome. She's a terrible one. Like how can somebody good- Gavin's a sociopath? I mean like flat out, you know, like like Yeah. Like literally like you wear a mask, you send your kids to public school, you keep social distancing. Um I'm going to French Laundry to have dinner with 30 of my closest, you know, investor friends and sending my kid to a private school where there everything's going along as normal. Like, yeah, total piece of Like, in my book, like, but he's good. Yeah, he's good. Yeah, he's good. Yeah, I recognize that where they're good. Like, what's what's happening in people's minds where they can't discern discern between authenticity they don't like and and then aligning with terrible inauthenticity. It comes down to two things. Identity instead of ideas. Because identity over ideas. If I can get you to start making public agreements that you support Yeah. a person or a cause. And then I can get you to say everything is about left or right. That's the biggest manipulation of all. There's all kinds of media manipulation. The biggest one of all time is there's a left and there's a right. That's not real. That's not real. It's absolutely fake. Yeah. And the second piece is we will go along once our identity is tied into something. Everything that other people are doing, we will go along with it. There's a famous experiment that's done by this guy named Dr. Solomon Ash where they put these they have a card up on the on the table and it's got three lines on it and they hold up another card with a line and it says which line is equal to line A or this line on this card is A, B or C and there's 10 people in the room. Nine of them are actors. Only one person is the participant in the experiment. Clearly, like my a golden retriever would know that the correct answer is A, but everyone in the line says B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B and it gets to that person like 95% of people, 95% will just say B because everyone else said B. Yeah. And they know damn well the answer is A. Yeah, that's what's happening, I think. and and it was clear like she had no policies, no ideas. Her personality changed based on who she was talking to, which is a huge huge red flag. Yeah. And if I go along with something at the beginning, it's extremely mentally uncomfortable to start breaking away from that, to go against all of those people saying now it's your it's your identity. Yep. Yeah. And it's who I am. Tribal identity. Yeah. Yeah. And we have to stick with that identity. But what that identity also does, it's confirmation bias. So no matter what kind of news that you might hear, like you might hear something great about Trump, they're lying. They're stretching the truth. You hear something bad about uh Kamla if you're her supporter, you're like they're They're smearing her. This is a campaign to destroy her. So your brain literally processes reality differently. So they they it's a different reality for a lot of those people. And it's it's not just the left. People on the far right equally delusional and equally in a in a false reality. Yeah. Yeah. Like I you know I mean I I voted for Trump this round. I'm loving a lot of what he's doing. I'm really supportive of him. I have a rule in my life. Like if you got CO wrong, if you weren't smart enough to to smell with CO, like I have I put you in a real fine box. Especially if you're an organizational leader, government leader, religious leader, business leader, you know, family, I can give you a little bit of a break because you're inundated with fears and all these other things. But if you're leading any kind of organization, you got COVID wrong. Like for me, like that's a I just I cuz there's too many super wise pe too many smart people in the world who also had the integrity and the vision to get CO right. So like the fact that Trump like kind of got CO wrong like he was like saying some things about hydroxychloricquin and I at the time but the fact that he like gave into co Fouchy and let it get shut down like like there's still a reservation on my end. But even as somebody who's now leaning like much more um conservative and and I'm very aware of the left right paradigm so I don't want to buy into it but like there's certain I feel that this is kind of what I always used to say. It's actually not true that lemmings just run off cliffs you know that was made up by the way. Oh it's amazing. So what happened like for our listeners lemmings are these um little hamsterlike creatures. I think they're I think they're in like British Columbia. I'm going to the general gist of what I'm saying. This is a lot about like me as a human being. Like the general gist of what I'm saying is truthful and directed towards truth. Facts might be wrong. So check it out. But I believe the story goes Disney was shooting their first in the 1950s uh wildlife nature documentary. And um they had this group of lemmings which I think are like Patagonian hamsters and they wanted to film them and they brought them to British Columbia. And the hamsters were so disoriented in every way that they just started sprinting and they all ran off a cliff and they died. And so there's this concept that we have in our culture that lemmings are these creatures that will commit mass suicides. It's totally not true. And Disney knew it was not true. They knew it was because they had taken these hamsters and moved them to a completely new location and so disoriented them and then released them and set like a predator to chase them that they just jumped off the cliff. But they love the narrative that lemmings jump off cliffs. Total It's like Statens. It's like so many things. It was a really It was a fiction that they could market and they they liked they thought it would sell the documentary better. So they just kept it in there. They went all in. So this thing about like lemmings running off clips, it's just not true. But from a um sociological uh and kind of like a linguistic device like I've always kind of viewed politics in in a fashion like we have two political parties. We have the forward sprinting lemmings, the the lemmings that are sprinting towards oblivion and then we have the backwards walking lemmings and my politics usually go with which group is going to get us to oblivion slower because I don't want oblivion. I love that. So I move left right. Okay. So, I was like with George Bush and other stuff like I was definitely left cuz I'm like this guy yellow cake 9/11 like they're sprinting us towards oblivion. I want to get there slower. I always knew that the Democrats were walking backwards but now it seems like the Democrats were sprinting us towards oblivion. So, I went much more conservative. If you look at JFK and Obama, totally different. JFK's policies are identical to Trump's almost everyone. Yes. Yeah. And that those are Democrat policies. Yeah. 100%. And Obama deported more people than everybody. Yeah. And the drones and all the the drone warfare and the warfare and so forth. So it's all just marketing. I get the um I get the spin, but do you find the are the belief systems so intractable at this point that people can't change or if enough people are saying line A is the longest line, line A is the longest line, then the stragglers are going to be like, okay, line A. But in some ways that agreement can be maybe a good thing. Um it can be. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're waking up and who knows what's next, but I think it is massive. It there's going to be a massive shift this year. I guarantee it before Christmas. This is a lot's going to happen. Yeah. There's some things I can't talk about that I know are going to happen. Uh but we're going to have a lot of shifts happening. And one thing I would pay attention to and if I could just give you one thing that would save you from SCOPS for the rest of your life. If I'm looking at an idea, are people needing to be suppressed or silenced for this idea to flourish? That's the only question you ever need to ask yourself ever. Are people needing this idea to be suppressed or no? Are am I having to silence people or suppress people in order for my idea to be popular? Right? And then we go back to COVID. There were Harvard and Stanford and Oxford educated MD doctors who maybe lost their license. I know that they got ostracized from their communities. Malone social media. Yeah. All all the guys. They're they're they're angels of this earth. They're heroes. Yeah. And right away I I thought good ideas do not require suppression ever. Ever ever. So if your idea requires that, it's a bad idea. Yes. Guaranteed. Yeah. So, but right away that should be the one thing no matter what's going on in our world if people need to be silenced. You're looking at a big scop a huge psychological warfare operation. Just that one question. So, it it's the salvation if if people actually use it. Yes, 100%. All right, shifting gears a little bit. Talk to me about um your personal story with psychedelics, how they've helped you heal, gain insight, um define and redefine who you are as a human being and kind of modern behavioral science scientists like how have you used these plant medicines along the way and how did it start? Uh it started for me I got diagnosed with a bad brain disease uh a few years ago and it was temporal lobe epilepsy with a possibility of meial temporal sclerosis which means your your hippocampus is eating itself and uh eating yourself all the time or just when you would have the seizures? during the seizures mostly most of the time. And you during a seizure, no matter if it's like body shaking or like an absence seizure where somebody's just kind of like out of it, you're losing like a million neurons a second. And how many do we have in total? Trillions. Trillions. Trillions. But still, it's not insignificant, right? And it depends on where you're losing those neurons. Like you lose a few thousand in your spinal cord and you're a goner if your heart stops. Wow. So, uh, in reality, it's bad. And I got to a point where I didn't know, I couldn't recognize who my wife was. I didn't know who she was. Oh, man. And we were driving in for my daughter to be born into labor and delivery. And I didn't know. And this is not too long ago. Yeah. This is 14 months ago. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, I was at a point of having nine seizures a day. So you were already like Chase Hughes behavioral scientist and on your way and doing all this great work. Okay. Yeah. But I had been having these seizures for two years and everyone had been seeing me, but I have amnesia for all the seizures. So everyone thought, "Oh, Chase Hughes, he's studied neuroscience and all this stuff." He would know if there was a problem, he would go to a doctor. I didn't remember any of these seizures. I never remembered them. So one day we're on YouTube. We have a YouTube show called the behavior panel and we're filming that show and I had a seizure on camera and I got to watch it back instantly. I knew that is temporal lobe epilepsy. I went to go see a doctor. But you so you never had either a um anybody in your world who was like, "Hey dude, there's something wrong." Like you never had like an intervention like that. Yeah. Cuz they thought like, "Well, Chase, you looked really tired last night." And I'll say, "Yeah, maybe. I guess maybe I was." I had a few conversations like that. Yeah. Um but I went to see a doctor, a neurologist and they gave me medicine and the number one side effect of that medication was seizures and I I looked it up and it was probably the best medication and it was c it could cause seizures. Like I'm like what world are we living in where this is happening? So I go see a bunch of people and I get started on methylene blue um which I think you and I both take. Yeah, we're both fans. So, methylane blue for our audience, like definitely worthy of a deep dive. Yeah, it's a uh Chase is probably better at this, but it's a uh it was a turn of the century dye that was used for canvases and blue jeans and so forth. I'm not quite sure how they realized that people who were working the dyes like weren't getting sick or were experiencing like better health outcomes. Like, what was the how did they make the I want I don't want to I want to stay with the main gist. One of the things I want to do in my podcast is I want to finish the main trend of thought. You ever have that where you're watching a podcast and you get a tantrum. No, no, no. You were so close. So, I want to go back to the personal story of psych psychedelics and and and how you got there. But like just a little side for into methylane blue. I know there's a guy named Dr. group who's really um has some great lectures on methylane blue and so forth. But wasn't it like the die the people who were working the die were having certain like health outcomes better than their um than the rest of their colleagues in these kind of terrible early 19th century working conditions or 20th century working conditions. I think they realized that a few years later. Um, but initially what what made it a huge discovery was this bio-engineer who invented it was starting to goof off with it at home and he was dying stuff on microscope slides. Uh, but when he would take a little slice of a rat brain and you stick it on that slide, all the methylene blue soaks up into the neurons like it has what's called a neuronal affinity, right? So it sucks into all the brain tissue. And then he injected a couple of rats with it, killed them, did an autopsy, and every neuron, brain stem, brain, everything in the entire rat for neurons was blue, the whole nervous system. So it it it can transverse the bloodb brain barrier big time. Okay. But how did he know this was a beneficial transversing, not a not a path, not a a negative transverse? He didn't at first. uh he started taking it but then they figured out that it stops free radicals. It lessens tons of free radicals in your body which are we don't have time to go into it but yeah reactive oxygen species and reactive nitrogen species. And so during that process uh maybe 40 years later they discovered that during that process the methylene blue molecule will suck up electrons and then donate those electrons to healthy mitochondria giving your body more energy to heal itself. So which stops inflammation and oxidative stress and all kinds of like the the root of most diseases inflammation oxidative stress and low cellular oxygen. Yeah, that's yeah most disease. So I started taking this methylene blue stuff and uh I thought I need neuronal repair and neuronal protection and nicotine is one of the strongest neuroprotective chemicals out there. I know it's uh addictive and I know it's No. Is it or are the additives that they've added to it? Nicotine itself is addictive but not unhealthy. Is it is it addictive in the way of like even taking a product like Brain Supreme can be kind of develop an emotional attachment or is there or is there a physical is there an actual neurochemical physical I think there's a dopamineergic pathway uh addiction. I'm not sure. So that's probably different than psilocybin because that does that does psilocybin is zero. Yes. Okay. So there is something in nicotine. Okay. Yeah. So nicotine is very neuroprotective. But when we're talking nicotine here, we're talking pure tobacco that's grown and extracted to there's no just nicotine. Yeah. But you have to grow tobacco to get or is there nicotinic acid in other products? Well, you can get the distilled nicotine in like patches and gum and other you can get nicotine pills as well. But isn't the are there multiple plant origins for nicotinic acid or does it originally all come from tobacco? I think there's a tree that grows in this latitude called a yopan holly. Oh, that might have interesting. I may be wrong. Okay. It's a truthish. But just for the listeners out there, like there's from a from a a health outcome standpoint, from an enjoyment standpoint, like major difference between smoking pure organic tobacco versus cigarettes and tobacco products. They're not even close. They've been so adulterated. Yeah. Okay. So, you're using nicotinic acid, you're using um methylane blue, and then that's also started to you needed the neuronal repair. So yeah, that's the exposure to psychedelics kind of. So there's there's four pathways I needed to stomp brain damage and that's methylene blue and extremely high dose melatonin. Oh, so most people take two four milligrams. I take 200 200 a day. A day still. Yeah. Okay. With a in a suppository because if you take it orally your this your liver it's called the first pass effect. Yeah. Is going to just obliterate those molecules like 95% of them. Okay. So, so melatonin in suppository form. Yeah, it is the strongest antioxidant that you can take. What time of day would you do the milk? Sunset. Sunset. Got it. Okay. So, right when my body's getting ready to start making it automatically, right? Okay. So, it it pairs with your circadian rhythms and so forth. Great. Makes sense. Okay. Helps you go to sleep and it doesn't it's not it's not going to knock you out like a Right. like you took a whole bottle of them from Walgreens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so methylene blue, melatonin, and melatonin is even radiotrotective. It can it can uh help prevent damage from X-rays and gamma rays and alpha rays, EMF, electromagnetic frequencies and so forth. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And sun. It can stop you from getting sunburns. You don't need uh sunscreen. Yeah. Which is unbelievable. I've found and been reading also Dr. Jack Cruz, another tangent, but we're going to come back to it. um that cuz I've always had this personal belief that you excrete oil through your skin. So the more rancid oils you're taking in, the more likely you are to get sunburn. There seems to be a massive correlation between the development of toxic sunscreens and sunburn. Uh that was my personal belief since like the late '9s. And then also Dr. Jack Cruz is doing this research about light that when you wear sunglasses and you block the UVA and UVB from absorbing your eyes, it blocks the alchemical process where your body releases the certain compounds that it needs to properly absorb and assimilate UVA and UVB and not burn. And I since I started doing like really those three things like I'm a little red today cuz you know I did my son it was very warm here this weekend. It's beautiful bright and sunny and uh I missed my morning workout cuz I had to like farmers market and then um leaving at 10:00 get to the field by 11:00. He's got an hour warm up and then games from 12:00 to 2:00. I did an outside dumbbell workout in the sun and then two hours in the sun, but like sun felt great while my brother was like hiding with a hat on in the shade. I'm like, no. So, it's completely different process if you just clean up your oils. Um, never use sunscreens. You can use some coconut oil or you can make tallow sunscreens like natural sunscreens, but I didn't even do those. And then also stop with the sunglasses. Yeah. And that's once that sun hits your eye, it's a three chemical process. It's opsin, melanopsin, and melanocorton. There you go. Those are the three big ones. There you go. Okay. So, you're so um what was the catalyst for this um integrative approach to your to repairing your brain? It was you you read the you read that this the the medicine that they put you on that your typical that your brain doctor put you on. You realize, oh, this leads to seizures. Yeah. Threw it in the garbage. Okay. What was the were you just sniffing on the internet? Had you had some exposure? like what was the catalyst that directed you towards this more natural and integrated way of healing? So, it was a triangle. I wanted to repair um protect and reconnect. It rhymes even. Repair, protect, reconnect. There you go. Yeah. So, I have methylene blue and melatonin up and repair and protect. I have this uh kind of semi highdosese nicotine and reconnect just in case there's some holes or pockets that the roads are blocked, right? I want to I want to rewire around those roads. So, I need to drastically increase my level of neuroplasticity. So, I started micro doing psilocybin. Uh, and that dramatically within and I'm not saying like I did this for 3 weeks and I was better one day. Yep. Day one, everything changed in in an instant. And by the way, I hear that that is not uncommon. We've sold about I don't know we've sold about 10,000 of these now and um in in about 40% of the people like it's day one like wow. Yeah. Like I had no idea my brain needed it that badly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you didn't know you were thirsty and then you're like oh my god this water is amazing. Yeah. My my my thing is it's water with minerals. is like you're an athlete and you've had nothing but like mineral depleted electrolyte depleted water and then all of a sudden you're an athlete and you you're you're out competing for a day and you're having water with really good electrolytes and minerals and good salt and you're like oh my god like I didn't realize I could function at this level. It's not true. It's not stony. It's all of a sudden your brain goes to like a new normal and then you're questioning like this is how I should be every day. Like this feels this feels so good because it's new, but it feels normal. Yeah. Yeah. And I completely agree. It's it's such a gift from God, universe, whatever. And my first large dose with mushrooms, I I think I did everything pretty right. I blindfolded, laid down on the couch, good music, no lyrics on, and I had a a babysitter there. My only instructions for this babysitter were just shut up and help me if I get in trouble, but just don't say anything. Let me let me go through this process, which should be everybody's. If somebody wants to talk you through an experience, run. Yeah. Run from that person. Um, but it got to it was so profound. So, let me just let me just for like everybody out there, there's a difference between holding space and intruding upon that space. Yeah. Okay. And if you're going to do a high dose on your own with somebody who you trust and love, define it that clearly. I just need you to sit here. Maybe you can put if there's a moan if it's like really intense and I might even ask for it. You can put my hand on your hand on a chest. squeeze a big toe, but like literally like just let the you'll know. Yeah. Yeah. You'll know if I need help. Don't think you need to come running in. Yeah. Okay. Please go on. So, and that and that was my first like dose of mushrooms. That was a big dose. So, this is fairly recently. Yeah. Oh. And it was life-changing in in one. And it was spiritual and it was like it it's so far beyond what language how language can describe anything. Yeah. But it it gave me the feeling and whether this is correct or not, I don't care. But I view it this way. I just had this feeling that the the psilocybin is sentient in some way. And it had like it was exploring me as much as it was going the other way. And I was kind of exploring this whatever it was space. And but I'm when I woke up the next day, I'm thinking, how many seizures are we going to have today? Do I have any meetings where I'm on a Zoom call where I'm going to look like an idiot cuz I have a seizure in the middle of this call? How just like I'm processing every day. I'm used to doing this every day. Let me mitigate all these Zoom calls so I can have seizures on on a phone call so nobody knows I'm having a seizure. They just think I have a bad connection, right? for a minute and a half, 2 minutes. Um, but that was it. That was my last seizure was right before that journey. And I have since, this is 14 months, uh, no seizures. But I started the methylene blue about 2 years ago. So, kind of on and off. And ever since I started that methylene blue is lower, lower, and lower. And so, starting to get better. But once I started the micro doing it, everything changed. And it was in conjunction life-changing. The seizures. I just want to go back to a rabbit hole for a second cuz I've noticed um a couple things. Um there's vaccine reaction and then there seems to be shedding with the COVID. Did did did any of your neurological conditions, particularly the onset of the seizures, correlate to you either getting the COVID vaccine or being in proximity working environments with people who did get the COVID vaccine? Cuz there some of the shedding things that I think are happening are pretty diverse and terrifying. So any any correlation there do you think that it could have been something that triggered the other end or No, I think the the seizures started precoid. Okay, good. And I didn't get the vaccine. So that that that wouldn't have probably been the reason. But if I could take a minute to explain what one of these seizures is like. Yes. Uh it's not where you lay down on the ground and and you're shaking. That's a completely different type of of seizure. It's a like a smato sensory parietal lobe uh seizure. These are temporal lobe seizures and point to the part of the brain where the temporal lobe. So right right around here. Okay. Got it. This kind of like where you would put those little head bone conducting heads. Yes. That's where your temporal lobe. Okay. And so it's a seizure that just kind of like like you zone out for like a minute and a half, but right before the seizure hits, there's like a 30-se secondond period of like an they call it an aura, but it's the onset period. And you get deja vu that is so powerful that you think every human being around me set this up. M I am being set up by every single person at this party or at this bar, this restaurant, whatever. Everyone is involved. There's no way that all of this could be exactly like this without someone setting me up. It's terrifying deja vu. And then it hits and it's like a roller coaster feeling in your stomach and then you're just gone. You have no mo motor control. You can't scream for help. You you can't move your body. Um, and during this period, the way it was for me anyway, I would have about three years worth of memories of a life that was not mine in this 60-cond seizure. So, it was in my head, it was the equivalent of me being inside that seizure for like 3 years and and living some weird life that is not mine at all. Was it a continuous life from like seizure to seizure? You weren't like picking up and staying with like, "Okay, now I'm 15. Now I'm 18. Now I'm 21." No, it was different. Yeah. Random weird stuff. But the memories all, let's say it's a thousand sheets of paper that goes into my memory file cabinets. The seizure like opens your real memory drawers and puts these things randomly into your everyday life. So you think the seizure was cuz let's talk a little bit about past life and things like that and and and DNA continuence, genetic continuence. So was the seizure opening up the drawer and dropping something random in or was the seizure opening up the drawer and pulling something from another but just in random nonsequential order so you couldn't make any connection to them? Was it messing with your DNA sequencing and and DNA memory? Right. In in all of the memories, I could say 100%. They were me and I didn't have this body. So, I think absolutely there's a chance that there's some other crazy stuff going on. Jonah Varc had it. Elron Hubard had the same condition. Well, um, did you ever walk through the Scientology Center? No. Dude, you want to talk about like cognitive dissonance? So, my wife was on Broadway and um she can sing her ass off. She uh Let me interrupt you real quick and just say that like Van Go Picasso are also rumored to have it. So, we don't just leave off with Elron. Okay, got it. Make that the final. I just want to interject this one thing because it it touches back and it's like a moment of comedy. So, um, Elron Huber, the founder of Scientology, um, they would have Christmas parties and stuff like that and they hired my wife to sing at one of these Christmas events and it was a pretty good payday and literally we live right down the block from the Celebrity Center. So, we went and we sang and everybody's really nice and they're like, "Do you want a tour?" And I'm also a writer and I'm like, "Yeah, let's see what this is about." So, literally, we're walking down the the annals of the Celebrity Center, and there's Elron Hubard in the most clichéed photographic image of Elron Hubard, the ship captain, and he's got a ship's captain wheel, and he's got the ship's captain hat. Elron Hubard, the pilot, and he's driving, he's flying the plane, or he's in, you know, he's holding the plane controls. Elron Hubble, the novelist, and he's at the computer. Like, 50 realms of mastery and expertise were all captured with these photo photoals as he walked down the hallway. So I was like and I said to the person give a story I'm like how could somebody be masterful in all these different I mean it was like it was like carpentry home building cheffing I mean it was just dozens and dozens and dozens of expression of mastery of a topic and and the guy who was giving us the tour I'm like how could somebody been so masterful in so many areas well that's just Elron Huard and I'm like you know what that sounds It was crazy. Do you know what that sounds like? What's that sound like? It sounds like Kim Yongun. Oh yeah. Like I could imagine that. Yeah. Where they say, "Oh, the Kimyongun did has the world record for holein- ones. Every time he plays golf, every hole is a hole in one." Yeah. He's never Yeah. missed a baseball hit. Everyone's a home. It was It was almost like that. And they were these like 19 late 1950 1960 kind of staged photos. Uh, beautiful photos in a way, but like so capturing the time. It was completely nuts. But okay, so Elron, they would attract more people if it was just brutal and honest and I mean like you go to the Ernest Hemingway Museum, his alcoholism is on full display. No one is trying to sugarcoat it and it's just and everyone loves him. Yeah. He's revered by so many people. Mariel Hemingway is a friend of mine, right? But they're not giving 20% of their income to the Heming to the Hemingway Foundation. So, it's a little bit of a diff. You need a different personality type in terms of your profiling. So, but okay. So, go on. So, all these Sorry about that. So, all these people have had these um you're you're in good company or interesting company, I should say, when it comes to these seizures. So, then you've got the methylane blue, you've got the suppository um mel melatonin, the nicotinic acid, and then you also found macro and micro doing. Yeah. And that was your health return to health. And how long's it been? It's uh over a year now. And no more seizures? None. Zero. And I'm I'm back to way well above 100% where I was even before seizures. I'm more cognitively present as far as I know. And everything everything that I'm saying right now, this may not be a solution. I may start having seizures tomorrow, but as as for right now, it's a it's permanent. Feels very permanent. Wonderful. And now your your key people in your organization, your family, they know what to look for as well. Not it's not going to be like did I have a nap or something. So yeah, that's very important. Okay. So um I know you're starting to do you've got your masterminds. Um you've got, you know, mentees, private coaching, your online presence, but you're also moving into the workshop space. So talk to me about your evolution, where you're kind of going with your career and how you're trying to take your behavioral analysis um um combined with like um in these retreats and psychedelics and so forth, like where's the next phase of of Chase Hughes University kind of moving? Like what's your what's your plan? What are you working to do? How do you want to assimilate the different areas of expertise that that you've acquired? There's going to be two. So the the system that I teach is called NCI. It stands for neurocognitive intelligence. And it's a behavioral system where you can read the room like become extremely authoritative and confident without being a dick. Yeah. uh and also communicate extremely persuasively like the the most I guarantee the most extremely persuasive methods and and techniques in the world hands down. Yeah. Uh so that's one NCI pathway. And the other pathway is I've found myself on this passionate mission to break people out of ego because it's so beautiful. And I don't I think most people go to the grave without ever having like unzip that little ego costume. Just just spend five minutes out with with that costume on the floor and and let it go for a minute. So I've I've tried to we've made a new part of our company that's called exit and it's kind of exiting the egodriven portion of life and we have these retreats we have courses and seminars and stuff for the NCI stuff. Uh we have government ones and police and all this like very serious very uh grounded in science and all that. Then we have this exit thing and it's me wanting to to see how much of my costume I can also peel off. So I do these events for myself too and I go through the exercises with everybody. But we have the world leading experts come to every one of these events personally walk everybody through every aspect of it. It's a massive combination of extreme hypnosis and uh going on a few journeys that are very well-guided from the leading experts in the world and just an absolute 4-day process of absolutely making an event for your brain that you walk out of there and I am changed that there is a pre-exit event and there's a postexit event where I've like I've spent four days outside of that ego or three days outside of the ego and I am never going back. And you have the option at the end of that like to pick that costume up and zip it back up or or just leave it. And I my goal is that most people leave it. Yeah. Um but it as a brainwashing expert, I wanted to design the absolute program for good that's actually going to bring some good to the world and get people into a place where they're I'm not seeing other people. I'm starting to see me everywhere I look. And where I used if I'm if I'm getting good at behavior profiling, most people think when I get really good at reading people, I'm going to see insecurities and fears. I'm going to be judgmental. I'm going to judge somebody. Uh but it gives you empathy at first and then you're not seeing all those insecurities and fears. You're seeing you. That's when you get really good and you get to this like other levels like I'm seeing me in everything and uh stepping out of the ego. So, our first event is in Mexico here in just a few months. Oh, is it going to be or are you going to shift it? No, it's going to be in Mexico cuz I rented a whole resort and I can't get money back. But our our next one will be right here in Austin. Okay, good. Good. So, we'll have it in the show notes and everything. And then also people can just go to um your website and so forth. What's the web What's the web address? Well, we'll put it again. Uh NCI NCI. University. Okay. So, they can follow up on these workshops. Please do. Uh yeah, it's I make it like a 10x return on investment and I make it to where like I do every podcast like my mom's going to watch and I make every business decision like my parents are all going to see it and and and that they better be okay with it. So I I hope uh I hope we get a lot of people there. Yeah. Well, I can I can vouch your authenticity. We've been spending some time with each other now for sure. 100%. You know, I've often felt that the term brainwashing is um it's it's porative when it shouldn't be because we all want dirty things washed clean. So, it's really brain programming, false programming verse washing. Like I've always said like that's just not the right term. Like brainwashing is the good thing. It's brain programming that's very often or negative brain programming and that's like the bad thing. So it's like I don't know that's just a little side thing but I always felt like like you're a brainwashing expert in in the best of terms in the best way. Yeah. In the best of ways. Like you want to clean the muck and dirt and egoic gunk off of people's brains so they can experience a whole new sense of um optimization and well-being and so forth. I've trademarked the name cognitive surgery. Oh, so maybe we can call it that. I think it's a good name. Yeah, that's a good name. Yeah, that's uh that's that is a good name. Um well, equally weird. Yeah, that's um that's very exciting. How busy um h how how you managing your time demands, how you kind of processing it all? You brought on staff. Like how's that been for you? cuz you've had I'd have to imagine since Patrick Bet Dave and some of the other big ones you've had like explosive growth probably, right? It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Um luckily I've got some good behavior profiling skills. So you've met a lot of my team. You met my sister yesterday. Yeah. And u my sister runs my company. Yeah. And it do I can't like if you have a good team, you can have a shitty company, but you can't have a shitty team and a good company. It'll fail, right? So the team is what matters more than anything. And I wanted to hire a boss for me. And maybe you're the same cuz I'm not a business person. I'm an entrepreneur. I feel like I'm more of an artist. Yeah. Uh, and then I get into this situation where I'm I'm a CEO of a company that's big, starting to get big and I'm having to deal with spreadsheets and earnings and it was nauseating and and dizzying for me. I didn't want to do that. I can completely relate. Like I'm so in need of like a a CFO. Yeah. Kind of like somebody with some real authority and the numbers and the finances and so forth. We're still as a company at the place where we're kind of like homespun and a bookkeeper can just kind of reorganize everything. Yeah. But it's um it's close that we're not quite like that anymore. So yeah, the organization and it's stressful too cuz like you know you've always said like I've heard you say like if you walk out of the house you know and you've got on a nice clean suit and you washed your car that day but you know your home is a pigsty hole that energy is going to follow you and and perceptive people are going to get that. So a little bit of that pretender syndrome. So I'm I struggle I was like oh that's me guilty because I also have this other line that I share with people. I'm like, if you've got kids and you care about food and you fold your own laundry, there's only so many hours in the day, man. Like, if you're if you're not going to give your kid the school lunch and you're making that lunch and then the breakfast and the dinner, it's like and you you fold your own laundry, like you got to be efficient and put a pretty good team together. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. So, that that's where like you start delegating. What can I what can I put off? What can I delegate or do I just need to spend some money on wrinkle-free clothes and live out of that bag? Well, if you're if you're a real lunatic like I am and you don't like mixed fibers, I I I try not to wear Yeah. So basically um anytime you have polyester on your body, you're doing your body disservice and you're you're you're sending your body's ability to uh regulate um negative and positive ionic energy. You're just with it to How do I know about this? So is this polyester? Yeah. Yeah. You think it is? It's that the shirt's probably a bit of a blend and certainly your vest is um and it'll affect your immune system. It'll affect the way that from a mitochondrial health and a cellular health standpoint and neurological functioning like you you want organic cotton clothing. Cotton cotton has a about a 100 uh like a uh it's about 100 positive. The two most posits about blending fibers because the two main fibers during biblical times were linen and wool and they kind of cancel them them out. One carries a positive ionic charge, one's a negative ionic charge. are both beneficial but you should have them both during different times. You shouldn't mix fibers. So when they do these kind of curillian photography and they also you know study the energetic flow of things like putting microlastics on your body in the terms of polyesters and polyester fibers are like totally should get those out of your life. They also break down when you wash them and they form the nano particles and then those nano particles those nanoplastics they're pervasive in everything and they're also endocrine disruptors. That's why, you know, I have this theory that we are, you know, with the proliferation of of body dysmorphia, transgenderism, homosexuality. Um, like I have no judgment on those things in terms of somebody's life choice. Right? What I'm very concerned about is your biologies being manipulated. And I find it's incumbent the first responsibility I think on parents these in this day and age is biological preservation. that you need to be acutely aware that there are entities, organizations that they want your kid's biology. Um because once they have your kid's biology, they got you cradle to grave. So it starts with the vaccines, it starts with the medicines, it starts with the foods they're eating. You get compromised biologically and then the expression of you as a human being, the expression of your sexuality is not necessarily authentically you. Yeah. Like how could we as a species have 20 25% homosexuality, body dysmorphia, transgenderism? You can't. We would have been gone. We would have diseolved 30,000 years ago. So, and while I don't ever uh want any of those groups persecuted or subjected to any kind of hate or anything like that, like we need to be aware as a society like who can procreate. We need procreation. We need the society and like that needs to be a protected class also these days like children need to be a protected class and yeah you know the pharmaceutical industry the food industry um air food water like you you're not with my kids biology and so we as parents my wife and I take that very seriously so that means we make lunch we do most of our cooking at home you know my kids they're both athletes so they wear plenty of polyester you know, we buy the organic underwear from Pacted. And when you get to a high level of that, you're also dealing with the EMFs, the electromagnetic frequencies and radiation that we're confronted with. You want fi, you want clothing and natural fibers that can help you release the buildup of positive ionic energy, which is not good. So, walking barefoot, all these kinds of things, but certainly having um cotton, organic cotton, linen clothing is uh a good move for your health and your well-being. So give me a short master class on this. U so I buy let's say I have organic cotton up here. Organic cotton pants or blue jeans are all cotton I think. Yeah. Um okay. So if you're buying if you're buying non-organic cotton but wait let me let me ask this one question. The best socks in the world are wool. But if I have cotton on my upper body I shouldn't have wool on my lower body on my on my feet. Okay. Um, I here's my take on it. That from a biblical standpoint, singularity of fiber is the best way to go. From a modern-day context, like just get rid of as much polyester on your body as you possibly can. If you've got wool socks and a cotton shirt, it's totally fine. It's better than having polyester socks and polyester underwear and and so forth. The other thing is you can just do some hacks like walk barefoot, you know, doesn't matter what time of day, sunrise and sunset is best. Just go walk on some grass, walk on some sand, you know, walk barefoot, you know, get a little natural light in your eye, a little bit of sunlight. Um, I wouldn't want if you really want to go far with it. Yeah. If you have singular fibers and so forth and, um, our shoes, our footwear was pretty traditionally meant to be leather, which is kind of neutral. And so you can pass the positive ions. See, you want to absorb negative ionic energy from the earth and you want to release positive ionic energy. It sounds positive, but it's not. It means it's too much of a charge in your body. So, you want to release those charges. And that happens to the feet and that can happen through leather and so forth. But if you got rubber soul shoes on and and you're living in the modern world, just try to walk barefoot like a couple times a day and and take your shoes off when you can. So, but for me as like a conscientious parent whose kids are still like playing football, playing soccer, all these things like um they sleep in they they they sleep in um organic cotton underwear. They wear organic cotton underwear during the day. They wear an organic cotton kind of t-shirt or undershirt. And then um the shoes and the socks. Unfortunately, like these days, there's almost always a little bit of polyester blending. So, you know, we try to be barefoot in the home. Um, you know, everybody takes a few steps outside when they get home from school. So, just like without being like off the, you know, Yeah. off the reservation, kind of fruit cakey, you know, organic underwear, organic t-shirt. There's a great company I got no affiliation with called Pack Pac. They sell real quality organic cotton t-shirts, organic underwear. If you buy non-organic cotton clothing, just wash it, you know, just put it through a wash cycle once or twice before you wear it. And really try to stay away from the polyester cotton blends cuz they are in this day and age with all this EMF and electro bamboo. Bamboo's great. Yeah, bamboo is cool. Linen's cool. Wool's cool. Any singular any singular natural fiber is great. Okay. Yeah, that's just an easy way to manage it. Get wearing a linen shirt, wear a linen shirt. You know, if you're wearing a cotton shirt, wear a cotton shirt, you know. So, I've never heard this before. So, this is great. I'm going to I'm going to actually look this up as soon as we're done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You want to just try to wear single natural fibers and so forth. How we doing on time? Pretty good, man. This is good. This is a good chat. Anything Anything else on your mind you feel complete you wanted to kind of bring up? No, you complete me. Oh. Oh. So, how'd you hear about Brain Supreme? How did that start for you? Well, you and I got connected through a friend. That's right. One of your mentees. He's also a business associate. Yeah. Yeah. and uh he sent me a couple of samples and uh I thought this is this does I didn't think this existed things like this existed and uh I've since ordered a couple yeah couple dollars uh from you and it's been fantastic. The the number one thing that I use is between Feelgood and the Genius which are both unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. That's our um genius is our flagship. So that's our most neutropic formulation. Then feel good is we blend in the emotional adaptogenic herbs. Um I like these a lot. I do them I do feel good singularly. I do genius and athlete together. Oh, I like that. For my workouts, like one of each. Well, I go a little stronger these days. So, I do perform I'll do So, you know, we've got supplemental dosing, 5 days on, two days off. Treat it like a supplement. And then we have performance dosing. And the performance dosing is a slightly your a lot of your like alpha high net worth, you know, need to feel it, want to experience it. Um um highly productive executive types. I'll when I coach them, I'm like, "Look, everybody should start supplement dosing so you can figure out, especially if you're newer." But like my sense is that you want to feel it and try performance dosing. So performance dosing is for me it's two genius, two athlete, which is a 400 milligram micro dose, which is a little bit on the higher side. Micro doing tends to happen between 1 to 400 milligrams, but everybody's neurological needs are different. But I'll do two and two. I wouldn't recommend most people start that way. I'd start one and one. And I do it on my two hardest training days, which tend to be Monday or Thursday or Tuesday or Friday in the morning, empty stomach about 35 minutes before I hit the gym. And I'm it's, you know, we have this thing about perceptible, non- intoxicating, non-h hallucinatory, but you want to feel some increased level of effectiveness. That's our kind of brain supreme mo. When you do the performance dosing, you're a little more in that flow state zone. So for me that's two and two because I've been doing this for a while. If I take like a month off I can go back down to two and one or two in one something like somewhere between 3 to 400 milligrams. My two hardest training days in the morning empty stomach puts me in flow state for my workouts and then the benefits of the micro dose linger throughout the day and the next two days and then I do it again on Friday let's say. But when everybody starts, I tell them, you know, probably start with, you can start with just one of the products, but go with um the supplement protocol with this stuff making a comeback. I'm I'm And I'll just say this between you and me, you can leave it in, but I am so excited to see the art and the design and architecture over the course of the next decade. Right. Yeah. Rogan to his credit talks about that like when they knocked out psych when they made psychedelic schedule one like art design in this country went to went to crap architecture everything. Yeah. You don't see classic cars from like you don't see oh this is a 1982 Ford Taurus. Yeah. You don't see anybody celebrating that. Yeah. So I'm art's going to be good. Music's going to change where where there's a lot of overlap between what we do. But one of the things that I would say, so from all the podcasts, my best takeaway from everything I've seen of you is compete on comfort. He you said that in multiple podcasts, like try to be the if you're going to compete, compete on comfort. Can you be the most comfortable person in the room? And that like that is such great advice because competing on comfort means I got to be a really good listener. Yeah. competing on comfort means I got to be comfortable in my skin. Like it's only going to make you and the room a better person and you're competing. So it triggers it triggers both our desire to kind of compete and win in life and our desire to connect and be authentic. Like it's amazing advice because it's it's it brings you in front of your eyes. Yes. And it makes you authentic. And so the one thing where I'd say we're like our in terms of competing on comfort, our greatest business kinship, these are authenticity um magic pills, you know, pardon the pun, but like one of the long-term benefits of psychedelic micro doing is it naturally makes you a more authentic human being. Yeah. Um you're more empathetic. you're more connected. Um the the values that make us most human seem to be kind of brought to the four. So in terms of like your coaching my product like competing on comfort like these are this is the pill that helps you do it and it's like a little step out of the ego at the same time. And it's uh in my brain this may not sound good but in my brain it's smaller me bigger us. Yeah. In every social interaction, it's always like the the us is more important than me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think about that all the time because I mean, look, I've got a brand. I want the brand to be successful. I want to sell a lot of product, but like I have to be authentic. And like I'll tell people like, look, if Brain Supreme's really working for you and you're a vet and you're dealing with combat stress and you're sleeping for the first time in ages and you're not getting night terrors and you're getting anxiety about taking your two days off, don't take your two days off. Just take it straight through. But there will come a time 3 months, 5 months, 6 months where you're like, I might be done. Like I might not need to micro dose for a while or I can take a month off. And like I tell people that because I have to maybe I was a little bit all this way, but since I created this product and have been micro doing myself, I'm much more so this way that like I have to deal in the world with transparency and authenticity. my radar for that when I'm phony, it just starts going off. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's good that you say that because for us to have some detailed protocol that's like this universal recipe card for everybody would also imply that we understand how this stuff works. And we do not know. We have no idea how this stuff works. We we can break down it may turn off this part of the brain the default mode network and it serotonin pathways but that's that's mechanical. It's also so based on neurological needs. I've got some people who it keeps them up at night. I've got some people who god I have to take one right before bed and I can sleep. Like there's a general rule that micro dosing is better done in the morning and it often helps you sleep better at night. But there are some people who like literally like to take it three hours before bed, which I would never advise. So, it's so based on neurological needs and those neurological needs are so personalized and subjective that there's like a general code, but this the specifics are all individually based and you got to just kind of get familiar with it and figure that part out. It's kind of like they know. Kind of like what? Kind of like they know. They know what you need or they know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. We've had that conversation about mushrooms being kind of sentient. They're using us as we're as much as we're using them. Yeah. Cool. Well, that was great. Thank you so much, man. I look forward to uh our friendship and working together and uh and some of these retreats as well, too. Especially the one here if it's going to come up in Austin, Texas. I definitely want to be involved in that. It will be. Yeah. And I I love the work you're doing. I really appreciate the work you're doing. For any of the Brain Supreme people out there, like um the podcasts are great. You learn so much in every different podcast. Um, and I can't wait to dive into the the book and the curriculum as well and start to take some of the course work. I'm really excited about that. Thanks, brother. Yeah. Cool. All right, man. Let's wrap.