flour sugar and vegetable oil the three legs on which every disease stands not what you should be consuming these things including animals and birds nobody so these are the first three things to remove and you will find no matter what diet you decide to follow in the world you know starting from carnivore where people live entirely on meat to vegan you know and with everything in between the first two months every Improvement you have comes from removing processed carbohydrates absolutely moving bread pasta everything made out of flour sugar soft drinks pepper cereals porridges you know all that that's something we can all agree on you know that comes up time after time so no matter what you're actually eating the benefits in the first two months of you following any kind of diet come from removing these three things always remove them first that is the most important thing Dr Natasha Campbell McBride's welcome to my podcast your body's way this is such a pleasure and an honor to be speaking with you right now um first of all how how are you doing thank you for inviting me I'm delighted to be here great great um but I wanted to basically just start the podcast um just by first of all um just kind of telling you my my gratitude for the work that you've done um I've been a massive follower of your work for um gosh God since 2007 when um put your heart in your mouth the book came out um and it was the first time that I've actually read about you know um the how we should be not afraid of fat and how you know cholesterol isn't a bad thing and you know all of the things that we've been advised to eat in the UK and around the world you just basically debunked it all and it was such a powerful book for me and um I have to say that book is probably why I decided to like specialize in nutrition and to kind of go into it a bit more so first of all I just wanted to say a big big thank you to you for that that's a pleasure I'm glad that you found that book because that propaganda has been launched in 1952 a long time ago now more than 70 years ago and it was based on a lie basically it was launched by a person who had no integrity and the idea was that animal fats and cholesterol cause heart disease and since then huge and very profitable Industries have been built based on that idea pharmaceutical industry makes billions food industry makes billions agricultural industry makes billions Western governments make billions and uh was the medicine makes millions medical industry makes billions and no matter how many scientists and there are hundreds and hundreds of honest scientists all over the world who have debunked that theory the diet heart hypothesis who have shown that animal fats and cholesterol not only don't cause heart disease they prevent it and they reverse it the best guarantee of not getting heart disease is by eating plenty of butter and eggs and bacon and fatty lamb chops and pork chops and the rest of it that's what I'm saying that's mind-blowing that's what that's what true only science tells but no matter how much the only science comes up with the proof of this the propaganda coming from this powerful and Wealthy entities in the world becomes more and more intense and it just seems majority of humanity are not moving anywhere from that point it's it's so scary and when you read about it when you hear about it and it really makes you want to pay attention to not the mainstream but what people like yourself are speaking about and you know shouting from the rooftops to anybody who wants to hear um I remember at the time when the book came out I was teaching um Fitness courses so the fitness course was about five days of nutrition so I was teaching a classroom of about 25 people each time uh five days of nutrition and I remember the nutrition section was basically based on the well plate the government guidelines and but after reading your book I would say to them okay so this is what you need to know for the exams like the UK guidelines but this is what you really need to know and I'd start going on about you know your book and other books that were very similar as well and um it was just it was an absolute ball like it was it was absolutely brilliant in the classroom so um I oh gosh just the whole diet heart hypothesis is such a big thing but but today I wanted to discuss with you obviously the gaps diet and the importance of the microbiome because no one can dig into it quite like yourself so before I kind of ask you a bit more about that we really delve into it um I just first of all wanted to ask you about what you're doing at the moment in the UK because I know that you are a generative farmer and you are creating a um a beautiful paradise basically from your home where people come and they watch you um you know see how you do your farming how you look after the land how is that for you it's wonderful it's wonderful it was a logical progression of working for decades with food because the more you work with food the more you realize that you have to produce your own food that's the only way to produce truly healthy and good food for yourself when you put your love insurance and then it gives its love bag to you so 10 years ago my family and I found a piece of land in in Norfolk in Istanbul and it was a very damaged piece of land it was farmed conventionally by arable industrial agriculture for more than 100 years with chemicals and everything else so there was no soil on the farm literally we discovered that there was no soil it was destroyed because that's what auto block agriculture does it destroys soil soil is the most precious part of nature that's where all Life Begins and all life ends if there will be no soil on our planet there will be no life because soil is the source of growth of plants and plants provide the food web for everything else on the planet so we started creating soil and we are organic we are regenerative we have all the animals that we can have here the birds and our birds and animals are working very hard on creating soil because that's how soil was created on our planet in the first place by huge millions of heads of herbivorous animals and birds because they experiments their manure their urine create soil they create the micro community because soil is a microbial community so for fast forward to 10 years now we we live in a paradise literally and it's amazing how resilient the nature is that you can't take a very damaged piece of land and turn it into a paradise within 10 years literally we are completely self-sufficient in food we buy salt spices we buy fish obviously and olive oil and that's it that's about it everything else the land provides for us and not only for us but for hundreds of volunteers that we have on the farm we have young people coming from all over the world young and not so young you know people of all ages come true to us to learn how to be an organic farmer how to be self-sufficient how to produce your own food and when we started we didn't know the first thing about it we were City people you know we didn't know we have had no idea how to produce our own food we've made many mistakes on the way which we've learned from so now I'm writing a book exactly for that kind of reader for a person who has no idea but would like to start producing their own food would like to be closer to nature would like to work with land and animals and birds and that's that will be the book for these people that's what I'm doing at the moment and I love how you operate because that's exactly how you operate you find the biggest question that your clients and that your followers have and you're like okay so rather than answering them individually I'm just gonna write a book and that's how you know put your heart in your mouth came about and um I know your most recent book um the gutten physiology syndrome and you also did one for vegetarians as well um so I can imagine that it the only the reason why you know you wrote those books is because you know there are so many questions coming out about what you do and you're just like yeah just let me let me just write a book about it like that's just the easiest thing for me to do um so there's no um there's no surprise there that you're writing a book about how to you know be self-sufficient because when you answer one question that creates 10 more questions you answer 10 more questions that creates 100 questions how did you cover all of that in the book and and every person every time they read the book they discover something new yes yes I'll I've got my books here I can I can demonstrate them this is the first one oh my God that's a classic I've got it in my bookshelf it's dog-eared highlighted with like all different colors over the years yeah that's that's my book this is the book about heart disease yeah if you want to understand what causes heart disease what causes Alzheimer's disease diabetes obesity and other manifestations of metabolic syndrome because that's metabolic syndrome of it please read it all of my books are written for people for folate people for people who are not scientists who are not medical professionals but they are fully referenced for those professionals so it's it it covers everybody everybody can enjoy these books but my main work is gaps and which stands for garden psychology syndrome and gut and Physiology syndrome and there are two books both abbreviate to the same gaps in the English language there are two books one I've written uh almost 20 years ago now it's called gotten psychology syndrome this one covers the brain where does all mental illness all learning disabilities all kinds of dysfunctions of the functions of the brain come from any kind of abnormality in that area please read this book you will understand where it's coming from and what you do with it and how to get rid of it because you can and uh the same cause that causes every mental disease and all brain dysfunctions the same cause causes all chronic degenerative conditions in the rest of the body and this book came into it came out in 2020 which focuses on the rest of the body it is called gut and Physiology syndrome it's blue all my books have this signpost on them they just have different colors yeah so this is the newest book it covers all autoimmune illnesses allergies arthritis neurological illnesses hormonal abnormalities all kinds of physical conditions asthma eczema psoriasis skin problems anything any chronic condition because all diseases begin in the gut and I'm so glad you said that because that the that was going to be one of my questions is it true that all disease begins in the gods and 100 100 yeah this statement was made by the father of modern medicine Hippocrates thousands of years ago and now we realize this how correct he was he was absolutely correct every chronic disease no matter how far away from the gut it might manifest itself its roots are in the gut yeah it originates in the digestive system let me explain why now we know with our modern research that human body is a microbial community there are more microbes in you than there are human cells you are am I a sophisticated Rich microbial Community there are all kinds of creatures in your fungi bacteria viruses protozoa archaea all kinds of creatures and they live together in a balanced harmonious community that's the only way how nature operates nature operates on Harmony on balance in in a balanced microbial Community every microbe fulfills its functions and every microbe is present and they all control each other they don't allow each other to get out of control as that was in trouble because every microbe in the world can cause disease but as long as they are together in a balanced Community they regulate each other they control each other and they keep you healthy and well full of energy full of Vitality enjoying your life having a body that serves you very very well if you ask any microbiologist what is the most powerful influence on any microbial community in nature the answer will be immediate food food you change food supply to a group of microbes in a Petri dish within couple of hours Everything Will Change certain species will disappear other species will appear and the whole microbial Community will change because food is the most powerful influence on any microbial community in nature where do we place food in our bodies into the digestive system of course that is why the majority of your microbial community in your body lives there in the digestive system that is your main Ministry that is your headquarters that's your government your Parliament you know of your microbial Community your your you know main military quotas everything is an instant day everything that makes decisions in your body is there in the digestive system because that's where you place your food and that means that food is the most powerful influence on human health because your body is a microdo community there is nothing that can even get close to the effect of food on your health and disease as well so whenever you get any chronic disease any kind of chronic illness it is food first and foremost that you have to look at and you have to change because there are there are so many different avenues that someone can look at Health they could say oh you know my stress caused it or environmental toxins caused it or you know pollution and so on and but you're saying no food is the number one place it's a key it's an absolute key because if you if your microbial Community is strong and robust and healthy and properly fed and if your body is made out of quality materials because your body is made out of food that you eat on a daily basis your body renews itself all the time cells are born all the time cells die every day many cells in your body only live a few days I get old they work very hard they get old they get they die they get shut off and new baby sells the bone to replace them when the body gives birth to trillions of baby cells every day it needs building materials to make those cells from something right where do the building materials come from from food yeah so if you're eating poor quality food your body is made out of poor quality materials right and if you take two people one person with robust healthy body made out of quality materials and a person with a body made out of rubbish and you present them with the same kind of stress this person will not even notice they'll send through it the other person will fall apart from that stressful event and toxins are also stressed chemicals toxic Metals anything in the environment if you have a robust strong body made out of quality materials the way Mother Nature intended us to be you'll sail through it it'll be like water off a duck's back or Goose bag you know and you won't even notice you you will deal with that situation and you'll be fine but the person who is already weak and made out of who lives in a body that is made out of four quality materials they will fall apart they will have a nervous breakdown they'll have that they'll fall into a physical illness mental illness or something else yes um there's this really powerful experiment that you quoted online recently and um it basically explains the power of the microbiome like what we're talking about here so it's it's it's my wish that everybody listening to this episode comes away having a renewed respect for their gut microbiome and oh my gosh I need to start treating it with respect right now because that's how important it is and so the microbiome you know it's in charge of digestion and detoxification and just so many absorption it has so many functions in the body and to explain the power of it you mentioned environment about two groups of mice and one group um that they were but they were both given Mercury to like into their system and one group had a healthy microbiome and the other group didn't and then but the ones with the healthy microbiome they only absorbed about three percent of the Mercury whereas the ones with the unhealthy microbiome absorbed a crazy amount like 98 of the Mercury and and that just explains the power of the microbiome like if your microbiome is balanced then it it it knows what to do it does the right stuff it absorbs the right stuff it breaks down the right stuff it gives you perfect health whereas if the opposite is true then that's just one way of explaining how look you know this is what can happen just with this experiment like God knows what else can happen absolutely you're absolutely right absolutely right the problem is we live in the world which is literally conspired to destroy your microbiome everything if you're buying your food from a supermarket everything you're eating for breakfast lunch and dinner and in between is full of antibiotics because who stocks the shells in the supermarkets industrial agriculture industrial agriculture uses hundreds of poisonous chemicals most of which are antibiotics in their nature broad spectrum antibiotics and every bit of food that you get from the supermarket is laced with these chemicals you are eating antibiotics breakfast lunch dinner microbes exactly what do they do they kill microbes they don't kill no antibiotics they can kill everything it kills just a certain group of microbes and that certain group was part of a balanced harmonious Community where everybody controls everybody when you knock out part of it the harmony is gone the balance is gone so things that remain which were controlled by those microbes now get out of control and become pathogenic they start digesting food in their own way producing millions of poisons downright poisonous chemicals at the same time they damage the Integrity of yogat world your Capital becomes porous and leaky holes develop in yoga literally so these chemicals absorb all these poisons absorb so your digestive system instead of a source of to be a source of nourishment for you becomes a major source of toxicity in your body you have a river of toxins flowing from your gut absorbing into your blood into your lymph and carried around the body and wherever this toxic really gets to it causes disease if it gets into your brain it will cause any mental illness if it gets into the brain over a developing child or a baby a toddler a small child it will cause autism ADHD dyslexia dyspraxia oppositional defined disorder any other abnormality in in mental development of the child because the brain gets poisoned these are poisoned children hundred percent from my point of view 100 of autistic children in our world and hyperactive children were born with a perfectly normal brain this were perfectly normal babies but they acquire abnormal gut Flora from their mommy and daddy and their God becomes porous and leaky and the digestive system poisons them their brain gets poisoned that is why depending on the mixture of poisons coming into the brain depending on other situations one child will become autistic and then the child will become hyperactive another will have attention deficit disorder dyslexia dyspraxia aggression oppositional defines disorder or something else or diabetes type one depending you know if these toxins get somewhere else the child or the adult can develop diabetes type one asthma eczema allergies of All Sorts arthritis of any kind autoimmune illnesses apologies of all kinds neurological disorders hormonal abnormalities you name it every chronic disease begins in the back so you know this is really serious what you're talking about and um what is the prevalence of people with um unhealthy but uh microbes like abnormal gut um microbiome what's the prevalence is it um do most of us have an unhealthy go but we just don't express the symptoms that some others do um what is the problem because in order to have statistics somebody has to go out and actually research collect statistics you know ask people questions analyze the data and so on nobody's researching this at the moment what percent of the world is has abnormal gut Flora yeah has damaged microbiome in their bodies from my point of view in the Western World the majority I was going to say yeah the majority and the problem is that with every generation younger Generations have it much worse than older Generations many people in this world say well you know we've created such a comfortable world we live a long longer uh so what we're going to do kind of thing expecting that their generation of 40 year olds 50 year olds are going to live to the 90s not so not at all people who lived into the 80s and 90s today were born before the second World War the whole planet was organic just think about that yeah there was no other food there was just food and it was all organic there were no vaccinations there were no antibiotics and their parents passed to them perfectly healthy gut Flora microbial Flora because mother and father passed there bodily microbiome to their child the mother starts doing it during pregnancy during nine months of pregnancy she passes her microbiome to the baby and then at the moment of birth as the baby goes through the birth canal the baby swallows lots of microbes which live in mother's vagina mother's birth canal and that Flora comes from two sauces one is the mother's bow her digestive system and another one is from the father because if the father has abnormal gut Flora in his gut that travels out and populates his groin and all the organs in that area and he shines it with the mother on a regular basis so that's how Modern Age organized it so that the mother and the father passed the microbial Community to the baby if we look at those generations of elderly people they were born at the time when their mothers and fathers passed in intact healthy human microbiome to them and that is your Constitution basically the first robust healthy wonderful Constitution to these people and then these people went through all the childhood infections which are absolutely necessary for the child to go through because they mature the child's immune system it's it's like universities every infection like that measles mumps rubella chickenpox and so on they are like a university every one of them for the immune system of the child it teaches the child's body the child's whole microbiome and the immune system how to live in this world how to live on this planet what kind of things they can encounter this planet and how to react to them appropriately it is a fact a known fact now confirmed by many scientific studies that people who went through these infections in their childhood instead of getting vaccinations but you never develop allergies or routine energy or cancer because their bodies were properly educated how to respond to this environment how to live on this planet so those Generations you know they've got a robust Constitution they went through these infections in in their childhood then they never had antibiotics in their child but then antibiotics came onto the market in the Western World certainly in developed world in the 50s and the 60s so if the parents at that time got maybe one or two causes of these antibiotics because of that time they came out like as a wonder drug which has no harmful effects whatsoever you can have as many as you like and those antibiotics damage the gut Flora slightly I passed that slightly damaged path forward to their children then their children grew up in a very different world they grew up in a world where antibiotics were given to them through their childhood and youth for every coffin's needs regularly yeah where industrial agriculture appeared on the planet all the chemicals that were used by Nazi Germany during the second world war in concentration camps were then repurposed for agriculture without changes virtually without changing scholarship yes yes absolutely so so the food started getting more and more laced with these chemicals which have a damaging effect on now microbial Community then at that in that generation girls were put on a contraceptive pill at quite a young age which they took for quite a few years before they were ready to have their first child contraceptive pill has a devastating effect on the microbial community of a human being it changes it quite dramatically and changes the immune system as well and put the junk food that came in and all sorts of chemicals came in and all sorts of other things the environment has changed so that generation of people by the time they were ready to start the family to have their first child had seriously damaged that floor yeah compared to the generation of their parents and they passed that seriously damage cut Flora to their children and every year the situation is getting worse and worse deeper and deeper this is a huge Avalanche coming upon Humanity we're already weeping terrible fall out of of this situation already we have an academic of autism we have an epidemic of ADHD we have epidemic oviologists we have epidemic of cancer epidemic is epidemic of mental illnesses now we have an epidemic of hormonal abnormalities in people we have all sorts of epidemics the population of the most industrialized part of the world is sick yeah you can hardly meet one healthy person who is truly healthy who is actually being honest with you when they answer that question I mean it's like we're at the center of the perfect storm of just all of the terrible of the things that could happen to a person's gut like you know like you said medications and vaccinations and um the food that we're eating it's it's all kind of coming to her head um a famous experiment comes to mind you know um it's a potenger's cats that's right and um in that experiment they took um cats and they fed them um westernized Foods I believe and within four generations the cats died out so um yeah but but as the generations were progressing their health was getting worse and worse like their fur was changing it was becoming more matted and less shiny and um their personalities were changing as well they were becoming more aggressive and um you know they weren't behaving as well as the original cats and it kind of um you know what you're saying about our Generations about how it's getting progressively worse there's the sort of like a mirror image there but I I do have a question for you because I'm a mother and I I imagine a lot of mothers are listening to this right now um whenever whenever our children have anything um any sort of pain in their ear or any sort of you know throat problem or cold or that we're given antibiotics just like sweets basically um I can't tell you how many packets of unopened antibiotics I have in my cupboard right now and I've been fighting it so far with my children um is there a um a healthy way to help beat infections for our children rather than heading to antibiotics straight away absolutely absolutely we have a gaps that that's right let's get into that yeah it is a special diet that was designed and it's described in these two books in the blue book and the yellow book you know in this book in this book in detail this this diet this diet is designed to normalize your microbial community through that my microbial Community you will rebalance and make your immune system so robust and so strong that it will protect you very very well and at the same time the diet will build your body rebuild your body out of quality materials robust strong quality material your bones will become heavy and strong they will not break so easily you have noticed the process majority of people in in the world now in the Western World Harvest the process small children young people have osteoporosis because of poor absorption food and they and they're drinking soft drinks which have acids in them which actually wash out calcium from the bones they actively cause us the process it is a known fact that Coca-Cola Pepsi Cola and other colors they they cause us to process so you know your bones become strong and robust your connective tissue in the body that holds you together the collagen that holds you together becomes strong and robust you're just you're just becoming indestructible you you become very pretty that's right as you should be it is our Birthright to have a perfect body we use in this world for this short period that we call life on this planet in this environment and it should work properly because anybody would understand you know which tool is easier to use the tool that functions well and well oiled and or a tool that's half problem you know which is more comfortable to use which is more effective to use right but also that you know the body functions well but also it's our Birthright to be happy as you'd say it's it's our Birthright so to have a healthy brain so to feel good and to get the you know the dopamine the serotonin like I don't want to go down too much of a rabbit hole right now because I know that's a big topic as well the brain and but anyway please continue yeah some of these little children who who spend their lives eating rubbish they start their uh morning with a a a porridge a quick you know quick porridge that is cooked quickly it's got addictive chemicals attitude small Toddlers and children get addicted to this porridge from a very young age as a result the refusal proper photo they just want that porridge yeah no the propaganda has done the the advertising has done a very good job of convincing parents that this is a healthy breakfast it is a poison you you're turning your child into a drug addict by giving the child this quick porridge in the morning or breakfast cereal and to say drug addict I mean it's done by it like 100 and you're like no it's drug addiction like that's it there's another way so when these children are not fed like that properly the budgets are made out of that porridge which is nutritionally empty they actually tell you that they're not happy they're miserable all they want you to do is sit on the sofa and play with their gadgets yeah watch something on on the laptop or on TV or whatever you know or the mobile phone and uh if they're full or something some they move a little bit they complain that my body feels broken it hurts and indeed their body is a tool that is half broken and made out of rubbish and it feels very uncomfortable to live in that that's why they're miserable that is why they're not happy that's why they're not sun shines you know and they don't run around climbing trees and jumping and running and playing and bouncing off when they fall over when they fall over they fall over like 80 year olds they can literally fall apart wonderful and on top of that um because of the blood sugar roller coasters that they're on um to add insult to injury it just means that they want even more of the stuff you know when their blood sugar levels crash that's when they need more they're just like give me the next tip and um you know that's that's the the sad part process processed carbohydrates which are heavily promoted by food industry by medical industry by a pharmaceutical industry by governments by every mainstream agency which are profiting from these things there's a high carbohydrate Foods processed foods everything made out of flour soya vegetable oils sugar you know anything made out of this so can I climb sorry all of this it causes unbalanced blood sugar level it breaks the mechanisms of blood sugar regulation in your body so when the child has that sort of thing when they have a breakfast cereal in the morning the blood sugar shoots way above normal so the child becomes manic you're scraping them off the wall you know they give this uh energy boost and at the same time they answer their pants and at the same time they cannot focus they cannot learn these children they cannot sit still they don't hear you that's true but then half an hour later an hour later the the mechanisms that switch on in the body to get rid of that excessive blood sugar because blood sugar is such a thing that the body regulates very strictly and too high too low can kill yep that is why the body has very strong mechanisms of bringing it down or compensating so when you've caused that boost of sugar in your blood half an hour later 14 minutes later it drops way below normal and the child then feels awful they've got a headache they're sweaty they're clammy they unhappy they inconsolable they may have Tantrums or they become lethargic you know and and they crave sugar so you give them a chocolate you give them a snack you give them a packet of crisps you give them a soft drink or something like that and up they go again the whole day they go up and down up and down on this roller coaster they're swinging blood sugar roller coaster and that comes with its behaviors and the behavior looks very much like a bipolar disorder because they swing between being money to depressive money to depressive we're now diagnosing psychiatrists and are diagnosing two year olds with bipolar disorder and putting them on medication and all all the all the child needs is for Mom to get herself back into the kitchen and start cooking proper food for this child instead of feeding the child rubbish out of pockets so which is the same requires yes the child doesn't have a bipolar disorder the child is being fed poisoned the child is poisoned that is why the child is behaving this way so would you say I mean you've just been describing a child who um when when they haven't eaten there may be sweaty clammy you know climbing up the walls and so on would you say for children there's a scale for this because um for example my children um they they don't necessarily get the sweats and they don't necessarily you know you know kind of crave much um so would you say that children are on a scale but overall they're all on the same path like eating the wrong Foods poor microbiome and they all have a different scale of that reaction you just explained because I'm just thinking of other moms right now listening thinking okay I understand that but my child doesn't doesn't get those symptoms or do you think they're just missing it yes not every child is on a blood sugar roller coaster and it's not necessarily what would show itself as such drastic changes that can be diagnosed as a bipolar but you know the child can be mean the child can be tired unhappy and it manifests itself with allergies asthma eczema skin brushes reactions to food headaches poor sleep and just the clinginess being clingy not being able to focus at school being bullied very much a sign of gaps 100 of children who are bullied in school against us nothing that's incredible you change their diet you will stop getting bullied because these children are weak they're not only physically weak the the mentally weak and the spiritually weak most for most in the most importantly they're spiritually weak because they live in a weak body that is why the bullish sends it and the zero on those children you change the child's diet your child will become strong physically mentally and spiritually wow and Everything Will Change so um when it comes to mental health then because I can't wait to get into the diet um and how to actually solve this problem but before we go into that I'd like to just ask about mental health and autism depression that occurs um in children and in adults as well how does a um abnormal gut Flora lead to mental health issues because people don't usually make that connection so what is that connection it's absolutely 100 connection when I started talking about it 20 years ago you know many people thought I was crazy now now our science is coming up with study after study there are dozens of studies now that came out which demonstrate that God fluoro causes autism Godfather causes schizophrenia that fluoro causes depression gut floral causes rheumatoid arthritis Catholic causes multiple sclerosis causes every chronic disease yeah so it's you know it is scientific information now this is not some conspiracy theory yeah right so um with autism with mental illnesses this purpose this person is a gap style what's a gap star a person with abnormal cut floor damaged gut floor the gut wool as a result is damaged it has holes in it it's porous and leaky so the food doesn't get a chance to be digested properly before it absorbs it absorbs undigested practically every protein you eat doesn't matter whether it's gluten with its casein whether it's protein from meat or protein from peas or protein from beans or soya or anything else like that all of it will absorb undigested then your immune system finds this undigested proteins in your bloodstream looks at them and says you're not food I don't recognize you it's food and attacks them it attaches to them there is cells and structures so it becomes a very big molecule and whatever this molecule gets to in the body gets stuck there it causes inflammation in that place what is inflammation inflammation is an amazing marvelous tool of the immune system for cleansing you for removing such debris removing such contamination from your body but inflammation feels uncomfortable because that place gets swollen and it's red and it's hot and it doesn't work and it hurts it's painful so what do people do when they get inflammation they run to the doctor and the doctor gives them a drug to stop inflammation yeah so what have you done you you brush your immune system on the head so it cannot function by this drug it's lying on the floor and hardly breathing your immune system the only agent that you have in your body to protect you from that contamination so people start reacting to food because food doesn't digest properly you start developing multiple food allergies and intolerances some of them are anaphylactic some of them are not you know some of them are recognized by all mainstream medicine some are not recognized by the mainstream medicine but you are reacting pretty much to every food you eat as long as you got wool is like a sieve you're absorbing all of your food undigested doesn't matter whether you remove this food or you move that food as long as you got well continuous having holes in it you will continue reacting to every food you eat what we do with gaps protocol we heal and seal the gut wall right that's the whole point of the gap's diet to heal and see all the gut lining yes that's right we build a new gut wall for the person from Young newly born cells because you know cells that Lino got only live two days to three days um and uh so we have a real chance to renew the gut wall fairly quickly by giving birth to trillions of new cells which will seal all those holes we build a new healthy robust strong gut hole for the person so you could start to see benefits within a couple of days in that sense some people see benefits that quickly other people depends how deep the damages and how far from the gut the toxins have accumulated okay apart from the um undigested Foods a river of other toxins are absorbed through these holes in the cut hole because these microbes which turn pathogenic now they convert the food that you eat ensure millions of poisons this poison is absorb as well and the distributor around the body and of course disease cause trouble everywhere the immune system initially would use inflammation because that's a tool that is ready to go you don't need to do anything with it you know the music just get grabs it and uses it but then the immune system has other tools which requires some time to develop sometimes you sharpen to create so that's autoimmunity what immunity is another powerful tool that the immune system has so if a toxin has absorbed from your digestive system and it keeps coming and keeps coming because you keep it in the same things and the same pathogenic microbes in the gut conduct this food into the same poisons and that's what these portions keep coming every poison in the body looks for a compatible place a dog of sorts a harbor where to park itself in your project so they find molecules where they can fit in sort of like like a handle glove pretty much in majority of cases that's your collagen because three quarters of all protein in the human body is collagen it's an elastic molecule which creates the so-called connective tissue in the body and that's the structure of your body is made out of this molecule the skeleton of your bones the skeleton of your muscles all your facials all the capsules of your organs the sheaths where your nerves are traveling the walls of all your cardiovascular system the lining of your heart the arteries the veins the capillaries your skin you know all of it is connective tissue they're all made out of collagen largely and collagen is a magnet for toxicity because the structure of molecule which is actually quite Universal for various all kinds of toxins to dock she attach themselves but when I toxin like that attaches itself through molecule of collagen your immune system finds it because your immune system always goes around surveying everything in your body checking everything and it finds this dirty collagen molecule contaminated looks at it and says you're not mine so first the immune system would use inflammation to clean it up inflammation is perfectly cleaner it will remove the Toxin and leave your collagen nice and clean but it it's uncomfortable it hurts it swells and so on but if inflammation is not enough and on top of that you're taking anti-inflammatory medications that you got from the doctor a month or two the immune system realizes inflammation is not enough yeah it by then will learn the configuration of that dirty collagen molecule that contaminates collagen molecule and start producing specific cells called antibodies which will come in global that molecule and remove it destroy destroy and you go to a doctor the doctor takes a blood test and finds these specific cells in your blood and says oh you've got an autoimmune disease your immune system is attacking your body and now mainstream medicine believes the nature believe that in this situation your immune system has gone silly doesn't know what it's doing attacking perfectly good tissues in your body so what we need to do we need to bust your immune system on the head with a big stick so it just falls on the floor and can't work anymore so they start giving you drugs protein Unity which basically destroy your immune system yeah the reality is that your immune system is never misguided it's never silly it always knows what it's doing it is not attacking clean collagen in your body it's attacking dirty collagen contaminative collagen contaminated tissues it's cleaning you up it's dealing with the situation once you've made your immune system disabled through taking these medications from doctors nobody's cleaning you yeah you're piling up toxicity in your body your disease continues developing and eventually it will kill you it will destroy you it will all it will cause cancer or something even more drastic in horrible and so like like you've just described a really clear connection between the gut and autoimmunity um those clear connections exist with basically every condition that a person can be faced with including mental health issues and um basically any other health issue that you have so um we we have we're struggling um as people because we really have no idea what to eat um there's so many different um pieces of advice and even even people like yourself and there are so many other people who are at the top of their game and they have you know they've been studying this for you know a lifetime and you know even they have different advice you know everyone has different advice so first of all um you talk about toxins and poisons and what are some of the biggest offenders that we should be looking out for and then how can we go about um starting a gaps diet protocol like how does that start because I know there's three different phases to it so um first of all what are those biggest offenders that we should start thinking about taking out today the biggest defenders in terms of food yes wheat and sugar wheat and sugar flowers like flowers and yeah okay you know we are surrounded by Farm is surrounded by industrial wastelands of arable industry all they grow in rotation is wheat sugar beet rapeseed then again with sugar beet grape seed flour sugar and vegetable oil the three legs on which every disease stands nobody should be consuming these things including animals and birds nobody so these are the first three things to remove and you will find no matter what diet you decide to follow in the world you know starting from carnivore where people live entirely on meat to vegan you know and with everything in between the first two months every Improvement you have comes from removing processed carbohydrates absolutely moving bread pasta everything made out of flour sugar soft drinks breakfast cereals porridges you know all that that's something we can all agree on you know that comes up time after time so no matter what you're actually eating the benefits in the first two months of you following any kind of diet come from removing these three things so always remove them first that is the most important thing then look at what your body needs the biggest offender you know talking about offenders in the world now is vegetarianism pro-vegetarian propaganda plant-based lifestyle because it is it is now pumped very powerfully in a very powerful way upon the whole of humanity by Western governments by governments all over the world who are funded by the industrial complex industrial military complex by those global corporations which own everything starting from agriculture to Pharmaceuticals to food industry to Medical industry to governments their own governments as well so this propaganda comes to those people from those people from them why I describe all of this in detail in this little book called vegetarianism explained where the whole Pro it's quite thin it's got nice book pictures so it's injury they also imposed as well that's right the signposts that's right and it's uh easy to read for teenagers easy to read for any person but it's fully referenced for scientists and for for professionals what we need to understand that and I only understood this when I became an organic farmer myself one organic farm such as mine the easiest thing to do is producing milk meat and eggs animals as long as your animals are birds as long as you give them posture because all animals and blood should be on pasture not in some building locked up not in some prison they need to be under the sunlight on grasses on herbs free in nature the way Mother Nature designed them it should be run around you know free so as long as you provide them with that kind of environment you are busy maybe in the morning milking feeding them letting them out and in the evening putting them back to bed half an hour or so in the evening that's it the rest of the day is free you can hold a full-time job somewhere if you need you and at the same time have a farm and have your own meat your own milk and your own eggs they're literally easy but when it comes to growing plant matter on an organic farm vegetables in particular that's where all the hard work is and that's when 24-hour labor comes in because you know the yield is unpredictable on an organic farm because the weather changes you know it rains at the wrong time the sun shines at the wrong time or some insects run away from some Farmer's field where he sprayed some chemicals and found my organic garden you know you can do everything by the book and your carrots just don't grow [Music] so you never know when you're sitting in the spring you never know what yield you will get what will grow and what will not grow every year is different because the word is different everything just changes every year so that is the hardest thing to produce vegetables that is why Humanity historically didn't eat vegetables because they were always because there was no industrial agriculture it was difficult to produce when we come to the industrial agriculture these two things swoop producing plant matter is easy the yield is predictable guaranteed because the scientists have hybridized the seeds they've coated the seeds and all these chemicals every seed is not a seed it's a pellet coach it in in all sorts of chemicals and there's a machine for this and a chemical for that so in the pharmacy it's all been worked out beautifully so the farmers are given these special machines these chemicals this special seed oil pellets hybridized now you plant the seed on day five you spray this on day 20 you spray that on day 25 you spray this and it works you get yield you get guaranteed yield you have to put weeds it all look beautiful ordered you know like like plastic cabbages you know it's straight rows Perfect Right perfect for the supermarket conserve thousands of Acres one human being and soon they will replace them with robots anyway easy peasy to produce and it's profitable for them to produce plant matter but when it comes to producing meat milk and eggs it's expensive it's heartbreaking and it doesn't work and it's uh it causes them losses it's not profitable for them because animals and birds just don't comply with industrial agriculture obey it's techniques techniques and rules because all animals and birds need to be on pasture right they need sunlight they need brain they need more than 60 herbs and grasses growing in the pasture needs to be organic then it should be loved and then it should be out there you know in the fresh air and you need to move them all the time you can't just build a fence and look them up and forget about them you have to move them every few days yeah so the pasture survives and grows they don't destroy it and they get fresh grass all the time and fresh herbs and and the chickens get fresh worms and insects that basic that's their meat you know do you know what the yellow color in the egg yolk comes from the egg yolk into almost orange yellow color and that's with the gray that's very nutritious for us do you know what the yellow color comes from in a supermarket deck um gosh grains from a synthetic guy no no which one's going to give you good health yeah researchers need to be on pasture they cannot be locked in some cages and misery yeah fat synthetic you know agriculture synthetic feed God knows what and then another at a very young age you know and it's what what the industrial agriculture has done because it's profitable for them to produce plant matter and unprofitable to produce meat eggs and meat with their model where they take all the animals and chickens and adults from pasture and look them up and disprises called cafos confined animal Factory operation especially vegetarianism paganism exactly you see many films of the cruelty of those places yeah absolutely yeah over those places and people watch those films and think all right I'll become a vegan what are you doing you're playing right right into the gate of this right into the basket of this monopins of this Global corporations they want the whole planet to be vegan because that's what their profit is and they want to get rid of animal husbandry because it's it's unprofitable for them on top of that they invested billions into synthetic meat synthetic milk synthetic eggs synthetic meat is already in supermarkets synthetic milk is already in supermarkets eggs are coming real animal husbandry is a competition for these products that is why Western governments now are dead set on destroying animal husbandry you probably have symbols happening in Holland what's happening in other European countries they're destroying animal husbandry they're trying to get rid of all animals in in the Farms so people eat synthetics so what's the best thing that someone can do um like straight away if they want to start supporting um you know the continuation of farming of animals and like the healthy um farming and like how how can we go about supporting that there are hundreds of real organic loving farmers in every country the hundreds in Britain so the first thing that everybody should do in cities in towns and Villages everywhere you must abundant the supermarket um we should stop buying our food in supermarkets go to your local farmers market talk to the farmers there get their contact details and ask them can I visit your phone a real organic farmer would be delighted yeah because they've got nothing to hide there will be no bags of chemicals for you to see there will be no refrigerators full of antibiotics and steroids you will see that animals so everybody's got weekends put you kids in the car take your dog and go and have a lovely day visiting Farm you know and you will see animals on pasture you will see chickens on pasture you will see a human being that you can look into his eyes and see that you can trust this person this is Apostle who loves his land loves his animals loves his chickens loves his soil loves his Gardens and and does everything with love so his food that he produces carries energy of love because food is information yes we eat information for breakfast lunch and dinner what kind of information are you buying in the supermarket you're buying information of abuse greed suffering pain grief how are you going to get good health from that [Music] um when you buy from a farmer directly from a farmer like that you're buying love every piece of food that you'll be eating from the will carry energy of Love inflammation of love only dark energy can give you good health yeah know what the information can give you good health so once you found a few Farmers like that around your city it just takes one Saturday to drive around and stock up for the week for your family not only you will be feeding your family the best food possible but you will be supporting good Farmers because organic farmers in the western world are under great pressure from the governments the governments make their lives miserable the government is their biggest enemy because the Western governments are funded and stocked and stuffed by global corporations by those big guys and they support them they support industrial agriculture organic sector is the enemy so they do their best to destroy organic sector as much as possible so the farmers that survive in an organic sector the ones that have a strong customer base where people buy directly from the farm without any middlemen right and I usually put my clients in touch in cities so they form little groups so you don't have to drive yourself every Saturday to get your food you know if you have a group like that you can have a router this week this family drives and brings food for the whole group next week it's somebody else and you just all it takes them to pop around to their house or apartment in the city and pick up your bits and pieces yeah getting organized and you will be getting good food and you will be laying a good foundation for your for the health of your family that is so good to hear and it's just such a fabulous it's such a fabulous thing that you're doing and that other people are doing for the sake of the health for themselves and their family um I'm really aware of time um I I just wanted to ask you um about the gaps diet now I know this is a big topic so I know that we're tight on time right now but just you know you've talked us through the foods that we should be avoiding just overall in summary what sort of foods should we be including into our diets what we need to understand and I describe it in every book but if you want to have a quick summary please read this book this vegetarian book and give it to everybody who considers to become a vegetarian or a vegan what I explained here that mother nature gave us two groups of foods animal foods and plant Foods animal Foods I meat fish eggs and Dairy plant foods are grains beans Not seeds plants vegetables fruit you know things like that so human digestive system is not designed to digest plants because the basic fact that we've known from 1930s from basic Sciences is that the only things on our planet that can truly digest plant matter are microbes microbes Mother Nature use that scientific fact in creating the digestive system of herbivorous animals cows goats until open and so on it gave them huge stomachs with several several stomachs a cow has three enormous stomachs which collectively are called rumen full of microbes stuffed full of microbes so the cow is not digesting the grass herself it's that microbial community in whole room that digests the grass for her they do the work for her because no other creature on the planet can digest plants only microbes we're human beings we have one tiny stomach very small compared to the cow and only one thank God that's right and this stomach produces hydrochloric acid the acidity can go down in PH down to one when you're hungry very hostile environment for any microbes that is why a healthy stomach and a person and a healthy person is virtually sterile it has virtually no microbes in it but this acidic environment and other elements of this time of juice are ideal for digesting meat fish eggs and Dairy while plants do not digest at all in our stomachs they need microbes to be digested and the landing cholesterol environment so the only things that human stomach is capable of digesting are meat fish eggs and dairy animal Foods then this whole mixture gets passed into several meters of intestines where absorption of food happens and the only things that can absorb are the things that got properly digested so not plants plants again just may give some juices a few vitamins a few minerals if you little kofactors there but the bulk of what your body is made of comes only from animal foods and that is protein and fat when we analyze human protein and human fat in a lab we find that they're almost identical in their biochemical structure with proteins and fats which come from animal Foods meat fish eggs and dairy plants have lots of proteins lots of fats but they have a very different biochemical structure incompatible with our protein and Alpha it's very difficult for the human body to convert plant protein and plant plant fats into our structure and very easy to absorb proteins and fats from animal Foods so animal foods are the foods that feed and build your body yeah the body you live in it makes your body they make these these Foods they nourish you properly they feed you properly they make your body strong and robust plants do not feed us they can't all they do they provide cleansing substances so we eat plant matter to give us some flavors to give us colors to give us some fun and to give us some um some cool factors to keep us clean on the inside but animal Foods also provide lots of cleansing substances and my patients from all over the world particularly children small children with severe conditions such as ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease and mental illness and there's a there's a terrible new disease called f Boys in babies uh it's it's when a baby is allergic to every protein on the planet you know this baby is literally just in this protein in pretty much everything let's try diet or develop severe mental and physical disabilities so what these patients have taught me that human beings can live perfectly well without eating plants at all okay so you're uh diet I put these patients on a variety of gaps diet which is called No plant gaps diet diet nothing out of plant kingdom is consumed and when we do that when the person lives entirely on meat fish eggs and dairy properly prepared of course the gaps way we start healing we start getting Rosy Cheeks we start growing we start developing mentally diseases disappear Melt Away in the children and adults and I have quite a cohort now of adults and children who have been on this diet for several years quite a few years and they have no intentions of introducing plants so these people have taught me the fact that human beings can live perfectly well on animal Foods only entirely thousands of vegans and vegetarians who came to me with mental illness with horrendous physical illnesses their blood is destroyed through vegetarianism and veganism have taught me that human beings cannot live entirely on plant Foods absolutely not because plants do not feed us the only cleanse us so veganism is not a diet it is a form of fasting there are many forms of fasting I have a chapter on fasting in this green book where I explained these different forms of fasting and what their benefits are fasting is biblical fasting is as old as the hills and the many people recovered from all kinds of severe illnesses with fasting but fasting should not be done longer than 40 days maximum preferably no longer than 21 day because you cannot fast forever nobody can fast forever right and when people go on a fast any kind of fast initially in the first couple of weeks they start feeling better because the less polluted body feels better than a toxic one and that's the time when they write the Evangelical blogs and their you know books and tell the whole world how wonderful veganism is how wonderful vegetarianism is but then at certain point the body finishes cleansing and it tells them I'm hungry now feed me and the way the body tells them it gives them desire for roast chicken for bacon for eggs for cheese for animal Foods animal fat coat of cream for something like that but by then all these vegans have convinced the whole world veganism is the best thing since sliced bread you know they don't listen to their body they force it to continue cleansing when the body asks to be fed for political reasons emotional reasons religious race any kind of other other reason you know and uh at that point the body has no choice but to start breaking down muscle and bone to feed more important tokens to feed your brain to feed your heart your lungs your liver another white Logan so that you survive so these people start losing muscle mass they start losing bone mass they start developing neurological illnesses hormonal abnormalities menstruation stop libido disappears because the body simply has no resources for wasting on these things and their brains start shrinking we see that on scans memorize cancer CT scans but literally the brain starts shrinking and these people become hangry that's the term in this made out of two words angry and hungry yeah brain is starving so the person becomes angry these are angry people they're very intolerant the very Evangelical they berate everybody for it you need to go and you know become sort of revolutionaries in that area and their cognitive ability declines the intelligence declines and the memory declines but of course they cannot perceive that themselves they don't realize that they're losing their brain other people might be true polite to mention this to them they just shy away from these people they'll lose their brains and they don't realize what they're doing to their bodies that they're destroy themselves veganism and vegetarianism it is possible to be a healthy vegetarian but you have to put a huge amount of effort into fermenting all your plant matter to make it more digestible and into eating some animal foods to sustain the physical structure of your body and majority of vegetarians do it with high fat Dairy and with eggs and occasionally they would eat fish and meat to sustain the physical structure of their bodies it is possible to do that such cultures exist in India and you do have to live in a hot climate to do that the colder the climate is where you live the more meat and fat you need just if you live somewhere in Tropics subtropics you can be a vegetarian and be okay the budget doesn't need as much as much resources you've said so many uh powerful things in the last 10 minutes I have so many questions but I'm going to whittle it down to just some practical practical questions because I'm thinking about myself I'm thinking about my family and my friends and when when you say um I'm really stuck on this when you say vegetables and I presume you mean fruit as well um so you saying that we don't actually need those they're just for like for pleasure and for you know cleansing are you referring to fiber and um you know the phytochemicals is that what you're referring to when you say cleansing oh not only fiber the plants plants present this with a whole caboodle of substances which are called anti-nutrients actually right yeah you know salicylates lectins you know enzymes Inhibitors all sorts of things necessarily for pleasure they're powerful cleanses right okay these chemicals are powerful cleanses they cleanse you that is why some cleansing and detox protocols okay okay but remember veganisms are fast you can fast on water entirely or you can fast on juices or you can fast just don't know mono fast eating maybe only apples or only grapes or only milk if you've got to Goat you can only drink goat milk and nothing else you know you will achieve a fast there are many forms of fasting and veganism is one of them it's a form of fasting fiber is a hoax the same with um uh starch our mainstream Sciences which are funded by the same Global corporations the same people um they have spent huge funds of researching fiber and staunch I'm trying to convince the whole world of fiber and starch the best things ever and everybody should be just living on those things 25 grams a day that's the guideline that's what we're addressing nutritionists we're advised to you know say 25 grams meet your quota exactly exactly we don't need these things at all and majority of people in the western world are now gaps this which makes them incapable of handling fiber and starch because fibrant starch feed microbes all microbes good and bad beneficial pathogenic any of them if a person has a healthy robust balanced gut floor by eating starchy fiber you'll feed that microbe Community it will get stronger and healthier it will make you stronger and healthy as a result problem is how many of those people are left in the world without chemical activity in our chemical load majority of people are the upstairs and if you have pathogenic got Flora with pathogenic microbes dominating the vibrant starch will feed those microbes make them stronger and bigger and they will make you very sick someone that is more harm than Goods that's right that's how fiber and starch have become the enemy of humanity generally speaking anything the mainstream tells you you have to turn upside down and then you will see the truth interesting I think I'll put that on like a quote anything you see that upside down I like that um so basically what what I'm gathering from you is base your diet around animal protein because that's what we're designed to to eat um have fruits and vegetables by all means but you know have them for pleasure and you know just maybe use them for a fast um what are your thoughts on bone broth fast then in this case your gaps is basically a bone broth we use meat stock okay meat stock is made out of a chunk of animal where you don't remove anything yeah the bone in the middle there's a joint there's meat the skin if it's pork or everything yeah everything's there and you put that in a pan and you fill it up cover it with water add salt and spices and cook for three four hours yeah and the stock that results of that is clear delicious beautiful that is called meat stock and that's that is what we're using in the Gap State the meat that you've made the stock with is delicious wonderful makes a fantastic meal several meals that's what what we use this meat stock is rich in collagen I remember three quarters of your body is collagen of protein in your body yeah you as we live in a toxic environment particularly if you're a gap star you are damaging your collagen you are losing your culture that is why the result of that when people start losing their collagen they start bruising very easily you know you've lifted the chair and you've got the bruise on your hand you think my goodness I haven't done anything but why because the blood vessels are made out of collagen you're losing collagen your blood vessels are becoming weak they break easily you become clumsy because your joints become weak they don't give you good support you start getting back pain and subluxation of your vertebrae because your whole spinal column is hundreds of joints and every joint has ligaments and capsules and liquid inside and all the other surfaces all of which are largely collagen you're losing that so your spine becomes loose doesn't give you good support so you stop getting back pain in different places you become clumsy you start getting prolapse of organs your organs are hanging too low giving you various symptoms because every organ hangs on ligaments and capsules which are made out of collagen it can have hernias all sorts of things happen I describe this situation uh in the blue book right so um because I know that the the gaps diet is made up of stages so the first stage is meat stocks and introducing um you know softened softened vegetables you know so they're easy to digest and then you move on to the actual gaps diet which can last years there are several varieties of the gaps yeah yeah several stages so you need to study it it's a very complex and long story yeah we can't go into it now um sorry so anybody who's listening um in Natasha's book um in most of her books actually um the diet is broken down and also I have to say um plenty of YouTube presentations as well by yourself where you you go into it in a lot more details so um there's plenty of resources for people to find on how to actually take on the gaps diet and just one last question would you say that the majority of us could you know benefit from going on the gaps diet in some way yes that's what I thought absolutely absolutely I only want it yeah yes I live on this diet I keep my whole family on this diet and as a result we're never real we can withstand any stress we're strong you know it's the Gap style they say makes you strong not only physically but mentally so you're not so easily Bamboozled and deceived by the mainstream and it makes you spiritually strong which is very important veganism makes you weak physically mentally and spiritually so you are easily deceived easily Bamboozled and easily taken advantage of so I I think everybody everyone in the Western World in particular needs to go on a gap style at least temporarily or at least partially right until you read the book until okay um illnesses are over until you recover from your various illnesses because majority of people are are living with a poor health yeah they just get used to it they don't know any other different and they consideration even something like rushes or headaches or insomnia you know things that we get every day that we think nothing of you know that's the sign right that something's not right so maybe the gas diet is a good place to start for everyone yeah I love that oh gosh this was such a fabulous conversation and like I I was getting some Goose pimples I have to say towards the end when you were kind of on a rampage about um the stomachs and the animal proteins it's just like wow my gosh everything just kind of comes together doesn't it really think about it in that sense but um how how is the best um how is the best way for people to find out more about you I mean obviously all over the internet but what is your preferred way of people to find you my main website is called gaps.me caps.me and me I can actually put it into chat I think it might be easiest yeah because I have several resources that's not me that's my main website for people who would like to get trained in different aspects of gaps we have gapstraining.com here we have training courses for professionals training courses for non-professional people who want to make gaps their profession and start helping other people we have courses for expecting parents or parents who already have a baby and who are concerned and worried and would like the best for their baby once you avoid all the pit holes go on that course you will be explained everything you will you will make sure that your baby grows healthy and robust and you protect your baby we have to protect our children from the mainstream nowadays more and more we have a courses for people who are ill and difficult for them to read the book difficult to wrap their brain around the whole gaps concept if you join that course it's it's starting to people for beginners if you join that course you will be guided literally taken by the hand by very professional people very knowledgeable people who will take you through your illness you can accomplish that course as slowly as you need to as you go through the whole thing they will answer your questions you will be guided we have an army of gaps practitioners the expectations on coaches who are on gas block me yeah yeah and we uh started the gaps Science Foundation yeah we're doing um research to show that gaps works we already published four papers and we're working on more so anybody who would like to support us please do yeah yeah absolutely on there because this is a charity Gap Science Foundation we have a group of researchers who are not working to show that gaps works for those who are scientifically minded and need this kind of support yeah wow fabulous well I mean your work continues to be incredible and you're continuing to um make a huge impact in the world so again thank you so much thank you for the work that you do and thank you for coming on to this podcast and just sharing your knowledge I can see you're passionate about it and it's your life and I just I really appreciate that so um I just want to say a big big thank you again and this is absolutely fabulous thank you very much and thank you for your work thank you for spreading the words