Transcript for:
Kevin Spacey's Reflections on Allegations

there was a frenzy in Hollywood and suddenly you're facing a trial where someone may take your Liberty away for years and how does that feel my goal is now to prove that I'm a man of good character how supportive was your co-star I haven't heard from Robin she stabbed you in the back no I I I will not let you get away with that but you're Kevin spacy powerful man a famous man a double Oscar winner is using all that to seduce someone do you accept that I I I can understand that perspective pushing the boundaries being too handsy some people would say that that is Criminal prince Andrew Scandal famously it was reported that you and gilay Maxwell were invited to the throne room this Maxwell moment I have no relationship with her I had no relationship with him do you know who I never asked for anything was Jeffrey Epstein I didn't want to be around this guy there were young girls on those flights there were young girls on those flights yeah you think you would have taken your life like can't pay the bills that I owe how much money do you have none I don't think I'm getting the full story there Kevin that's because you have your newspaper hat on I've got my new YouTube hat on your new YouTube hat yeah Kevin I guess my first question how are you I'm all right thank you for asking um it's uh it's been a very interesting and and I think important couple of weeks where I've had an opportunity to to start to be able to talk about things that well for me in some cases I've I've never talked about before um and to take accountability for those places where I have uh behaved badly um and to hopefully put some facts out there that maybe a great majority of the public don't know about when were you last in a a TV studio like this I don't remember but it's certainly I think the first time I've been in a TV studio since 2017 that's amazing I mean at the time you were one of the biggest TV stars in the world and yet this is seven years later yeah I'm I'm a little disappointed it's not bigger than this but it's but it's fine that you know does it feel strange I when you're suited and booted again which you know you probably haven't been in a studio like this dressed like this for that length of time how does it feel I suppose the the biggest sort of difference that that I can feel in myself is that I spent so many years not wanting to talk about myself and avoiding questions about my personal life and my sexuality and and now it's just a very interesting experience that I'm the subject in many of these conversations um I've been fortunate there's also been conversations about the work that I've done and the work that I hope to do but it's it's just been unusual for me to find myself in a place where I am okay with having conversations about things that for a very long time I was so determined and kept people away that I kind of feel like now I I have nothing to hide and and I want to live a more open right life than the one that I did for how close to being broken Have You Been by the experience of the last seven years um there's been a couple of times when it was very dark and when it when I was at my lowest um what was the lowest moment for you um I think probably a few days after uh this all began which was in late October I can tell you exactly when it was because I happened to be with you by pure chance on October the 27th 2017 at the baa britania Awards in Los Angeles for Dickman hosted by Jack whiteall an English guy obviously and I was in the audience and you came out to present Dick van djk with an excellence in television award dick and his 90s obviously yeah and you said this and I only know this because I wrote it in my diary which was published in the daily mail at the time and you said Dick's mother conceived him out of wedlock which was scandalous in 1925 somehow in over 90 years that's the only Scandal Dick's ever been involved in even passively and I then added if the current lurid rumors swirling around around Mr spacy are true then very soon the same may not be said of him and I don't know what those rumors were that I was talking you about but that's what I wrote contemporaneously wow um and six hours after you presented that award to Dick Van djk your world basically caved in with an email informing you uh that this man Anthony rap was making allegations that you had uh made sexual advances to him when he was just 14 more than 30 years before and and on the follow on the Monday everything blew up yes so your world literally turned upside down within hours of seeing you're very close but it was actually that was on a Friday night yeah and the article didn't come out until Sunday morning we didn't find out until Sunday so it's more like 3 in fact I can tell you what happened in between Friday night and Sunday was that on Saturday afternoon Ridley Scott showed me the Final Cut of all the money in the world really which was the first time I saw it which you were then later remov from I was later removed from but I was incredibly proud of it I think Ridley made an extraordinary movie and I'm obviously very sorry he made the decision he made but you know hey Chris Chris plumber is a wonderful actor he was a friend of mine um but I'm hoping that maybe someday our version of the movie might might be able to be seen I mean that was kind of symbolic you pretty much got airbrushed by Hollywood they ran for the hills you were Persona nrata you rushed out uh a statement at the time which you've now said with hindsight was a bit of a disaster uh probably on multiple levels not least of which you came out as a gay man um in this statement uh and you talked about how well I I'll read a part of it here um he said I have a lot of respect and admiration for Anthony rap as an actor I'm beyond horrified to hear his story I honestly do not remember the encounter it would have been over 30 years ago if I did behave as he describes I owe him a sincerest apology for what he would have what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior and I'm sorry for the feelings he describes having carried with him all these years this story has encouraged me to address other things about my life I know that there are stories out there about me and that some have been fueled by the fact I've been so protective of my privacy as those closest to me know in my life I've had relationships with both men and women I've loved and had romantic encounters with men throughout my life and I choose now to live as a gay man I want to deal with this honestly and openly and that starts with examining my own behavior and that came after he had said Anthony rap that back in 1986 when he was just 14 that you laid on top of him at a party at his apartment at your apartment uh and that the star was trying to seduce uh him he said he pick me up like a groom picks up the bride over the threshold but I don't like squirm away initially because I'm like what's going on but he lays on top of me he's trying to seduce me I was away was trying to get with me sexually and that prompted your statement looking back at the whole Scandal this seems to me the absolutely pivotal moment for you which had you chosen a different way to handle this perhaps there would have been a different pathway do you feel that um I'm not sure that I could have said anything that would have been satisfactory I mean I listen to that now and it's just awful what do you feel when you hear your own W well I it takes me back to that day that Sunday it takes me back to the hours that we were given to respond I mean you know we were given no time to resp and the context for viewers you may not remember but this was the time that the Harvey Weinstein Scandal had just blown up me too and times after erupted there was a frenzy in Hollywood with all sorts of people getting dragged into this so presumably part of your thinking is I don't want to be one of these people I I need to deal with this quickly yes and you know look I I have to take full responsibility for that statement it it stops with me it was a bad statement I should have made separate statements about my sexuality and about his accusation I suppose that the only thing I can hope is that now that we were able to prove in a federal court in 2022 that the accusation that Anthony WAP had never happened did not occur that people will understand that I was coming from a place where in my heart of hearts I didn't believe it had happened I was a little bit pushed into the corner because when someone says uh I mean I don't know how you might react Paris but if someone says you know you did this thing to me 34 years ago and you were so drunk you won't remember my first initial response wasn't to call him a liar my first response was to ask myself did I did I do something embarrassing now he did say he thought I was trying to get with him sexually but he did not in any way make any sexual assault allegation against me he didn't do that until he filed a civil law and he filed a $40 million lawsuit in a Manhattan federal court but the jury took a little over an hour to come back and find you not guilty and in closing arguments your lord said that that rap had made up the encounter and suggested reasons why he may have that it may be possible she said that rapid ented it based on his experience performing in Precious Suns a play in which actor Ed Harris picks up rap's character and lays on top of him mistaking him briefly for his wife before discovering it's his son they came back in just over an hour and the court ordered rap the accuser to pay you £40,000 we have a check I think a picture of the check at the time so it's an emphatic clear victory for you but it also to me again when I look back at the statement you made if you just hadn't made that statement in the way you made it then your your next few years could have been very different I'm not saying they would have been but they could have been I I accept that it was a a poorly thought through statement and um but again I hope the fact that I'm not guilty of what I was accused of will at least in hindsight make people understand why I might have made it and I I also just would add that I hope that someday Anthony rap can accept that he had a faulty memory that's what I would like to believe have you had any contact with him I have had no contact with him but I would like to believe that at some point he'll recognize that with all the evidence that we presented at trial which is why we were able to have the outcome that we did that he will look back on this and say that his his memory was faulty and I think if he did that um that would go a long way to I think heal himself and also be healing for me one of the key reasons that I think it led to such an emphatic decision by the jury was John Baran an actor wellknown in in the UK uh step forward for you he was about 19 at the time I think and he was there at the same time yes and he was emphatic that this just didn't happen well he was emphatic uh about the fact that that really the foundation for Anthony's uh claim was that he had gone to a party that I had thrown where he had escaped into a bedroom and that later I came into that bedroom and swayed in a doorway well I had no bedroom there was no doorway there was no party and the only time that he was in my apartment was with John bman after we had had dinner together and they wanted to come and meet my dog um so again I I I think there are there must be reasons why this happened and I'm I'm trying as best I can um in a lot of these cases to seek understanding and not judgment my best friend in this world and manager Evan Lowenstein has worked very hard uh with me over these years to try to help me get to a place where I I come out the other side of this not bitter not angry not revengeful but more compassionate having more empathy more understanding being more present a and working on myself in all the ways that I have over what was going through your head when this all was going down in the first few days um because you were you were the you know double Oscar winner star of one of the biggest shows on television around the world House of Cards and then suddenly you know you're talking to Ridley Scott about big movies everything life could not have been going better for you I'm seeing you in Hollywood the toast of the Town present ing to one of the alltime greats and award making a funny speech everybody laughed you were really I mean pretty much near a peak of your life I would have thought and then bang it it's all gone you know and in all honesty I'm not sure that I was really able to process much of what was happening um Evan recognized immediately that um I was in a very very dark place and he encouraged me to go take care of myself so I immediately really before any of the decisions were made um to punish me I I went into rehab I I immediately I didn't know if I was going to survive and I just needed to go take care of myself and I was enormously grateful that Evan encouraged me to go do that you think what would have happened if you hadn't done that I don't know I it was was a very unusual experience for me because I'd never been in therapy I'd never looked into myself in the ways that I was being asked to I remember there was a maybe the first or second day that I was there one of the guys that had been assigned to me as sort of my angel you know my my big brother he looked at me at lunch one day and he said you know Kevin if you're going to get out of this program what you came here to get out of this program you're probably going to have to do something you've never done in your entire life and I was like oh yeah what what would that be he said trust before you're ready and I was he was right I I had never done that and so that process of trusting and watching the courage and the strength that these individuals in both that program I later went to the Hoffman Institute I did group therapy to watch individuals step up and share the story of their lives with such openness is what first gave me the courage to start to share my own had you pretty much been leading a life in in self-denial to that point well I don't think I was in denial I think that I was leading a relatively normal life I was just in I was closeted as a man and I was fiercely closeted for a very long time and now that I'm out regardless of the fact that came out in a way that was not the best coming out party ever um I would like to try to be as positive a voice for those who are um experiencing difficulty in in embracing their own selves and their own lives you see already you're getting quite emotional which is completely understandable but it shows me that underneath you know you've come in you you look back to your old kind of Frank Underwood Look in many ways and yet the scars must must be deep I mean they must be hard for you this is this seven years you've been through yes but look I appreciate that and and there are have as I say there have been times when it's been challenging but there's also been times appears would have been incredible you know I have I've been able to witness genuine demonstrations of friendship love I'm closer to my family I'm closer to my friends I'm closer to myself than I've ever been are you a better person I absolutely believe I'm a better person so what was what was the old Kevin Spacey like when you're being critical about what you were like before the ground zero of that day in October 2017 when you look at yourself critically what was that person like I think as much as I tried to be a good human being I think that um there were bouts with arrogance there were bouts with my ego there were bouts with you know I look back at times when I I think wow I I wasn't as kind as I could have been I wasn't as generous as I could have been I wasn't as prepared as I could have been you know I I look back now at at I was so focused and determined on what happened on stage and in front of a screen that I missed a lot of things that were happening off screen and off stage and and now I'm enormously grateful that my focus has shifted my goal is no longer to be the best actor which it was my goal is now to prove that I'm a man of good character and that is my responsibility every single day to show that and demonstrate that I just want to show you a clip this is from your two Oscar wins because it's very unusual to win more than one Oscar you've done it twice and the Oscar is presented to Kevin spy in the usual suspect well whoever Kaiser SOA is I can tell you he's going to get gloriously drunk tonight and the Oscar goes to Kevin spacy and American to my friends for pointing out my worst qualities I know you do it because you love me and that's why I love playing Lester because we got to see all of his worst qualities and we still grew to love him kind of ironic I don't know what you would call it poignant interesting mhm the kind of stuff you were saying there you were staring quite intently at it what were you thinking I was actually um I travel with a number of photographs um so I just always like to have photos things from my life and one of the photographs I travel with is a picture that was taken the morning of the usual suspects Academy Awards and it's a picture of my mother and me at The Ivy Restaurant on Ocean in San Monica we had this wonderful brunch that morning and when I see that I just think wow that was that was a morning where there was possibility I didn't think I was going to win I didn't I I was pretty sure I wasn't going to win I was this new kid on the Block and when I see that photograph which I see every day I remember that day I remember what it meant to my mother but I've also had to reexamine my relationship with my mother I've had to ask questions about things that I had for a long time my whole life never dealt with and that was that she didn't protect me from my father I love her and I was very glad that I was able to thank her in that speech and thank Jack Lemon in the in the the one for American Beauty um because Jack was my was my mentor and my father figure your actual father was a monstrous man I mean he was a Nazi sympathizer a white supremacist there's all sorts of empaths you can give him he was brutal physically brutal although not to you I think mainly to your brother um by accounts an awful father to you and when you say that your mother should have been more protective could she have been do you think or was he so monstrous that it would almost have been impossible I absolutely think she could have and I'm not willing to um remove her responsibility I was very fortunate that my sister um told me repeatedly don't listen to him he's crazy my mother's attitude was oh he just needs to get it off his chest because he was very homophobic as well he he was yes um and I experienced that directly did you know you were gay when he was doing that I don't think I knew what I was I think I knew I felt things and I was emotional um when I was that young but I um you know I've tried as best as I can to see the journey that he took from being a medic in World War II and serving the United States as patriotically as any young Soldier had and going through his albums and going through his Diaries and seeing what he wrote about what he felt when he went to Germany after the war and the slow indoctrination that happened to him with a number of people who came into his life and how he found a reason that he wasn't able to succeed as the great creative writer he wanted to be it's a sad and long journey but I also need to seek forgiveness I mean yes he he lectured uh me and my sister and my brother for hours and hours and hours and hours about his beliefs and it was you know for me I was so afraid to bring my friends home I mean my best friend Mike who's still my great friend to this day I was afraid to bring him home because he was Jewish and I was afraid that my father would leave his door open and he would see this Nazi flag hanging there I was terrified of what he might say literally hung a Nazi flag yes yes and so when I discovered theater in the 8th grade and debate club and you know choir and rehearsals for festivals and anything I could do that kept me out of the house kept me from having to come home I did and I I protected my friends from that but it's also you know that I learned at a very early age that I believed that Secrets kept me safe and I've since accepted that they really didn't and and they really don't did you ever have conversations with your mother that led to any kind of reconciling for yourself about any of this by the time that we started to have those conversations my mother was suffering from a brain tumor that would take her life in 11 months but there were moments when we would talk there were moments when I could share with her things about myself that I never had and um I'm grateful that and I and I miss her when did she die she died in 2003 so just before I came to London to start at the Old Vic m what have you worked out about yourself feels to me like you've gone on a massive journey of self exloration um I've learned many things um some of them had to do with the issues that um have Arisen um some of them have had to do with other things learning about myself learning about what I was so afraid of um I was just watching a um Nathan Lane got an award in New York uh this week from the lgbtq plus Community I just watched an interview that Ian McKellen had done and listening to both of them talk about how difficult it was for them you know I mean Nathan Lan is this iconic figure who worked in Broadway and a lot of musicals and you know had never gotten married so you know people might have made the assumption that he he was gay but he was still throughout a lot of his professional life was terrified to say it um did that resonate with you it resonated with me I I I felt for him because I I saw myself and just as I Mellen I mean McKellen was 49 when he came out so that was like 20 almost 30 years that he was a professional actor and and what they all talk about is that once they did it once for whatever the circumstance was under which they did it they found I mean e Mellen said that he felt like he was half not telling the truth even as an actor now for me theater was an escape cuz I was never being myself theater was this incredible place where I could disappear in into or film I could I could become a character so it wasn't about me it was it was actually a place to be able to hide and now I'm like I'm so much happier so what they've said is true when you come out and you can finally start talking about things you never talked about and embrace who you are good and bad so I'm I'm very grateful for for the fellowship that I have built through the rehab program the friends that I've made the conversations that I've had with individuals I had experiences with relationships with and to listen and to understand and to grow and change and to realize that I'm not static let's just talk about the the criminal trial you faced you won that civil case emphatically you also won the criminal case you were found again not guilty you know when you mention Kevin Spacey's name if they haven't seen any of the the recent interviews you've done you could be forgiven from a lot of the coverage about you and thinking that you must have been convicted Ed you know you're not working your acting career has been frozen for seven years and yet you were found not guilty in a criminal court and you were found not guilty in a civil court as well why have you been so emphatically cancelled do you think uh um there are no adults in the room to some degree um I mean look I'm I'm grateful to you and and people like you who have I'm not going to say you've supported me but you definitely have supported the idea that has surrounded me of I wasn't offered to doe process in sort of the public Arena um well you weren't it's no question you were found guilty by the court of public opinion which happens so often to people in all different ways some trivial some serious but I also believe just in the in In fairness you know you were taken through through the court process in a criminal trial and a Civil Trial and you were found not guilty and when that happens to people a sort of ongoing prosecution because people just want to nail you strikes me is not very fair well I I think that we have experienced this before in our history and certainly my industry has experienced it before and even though they promised they would never allow that to happen again I'm talking now specifically about The Blacklist which was you know a lot of people talk about the Hollywood 10 and Dalton Trumbo and we know about those people but there were more than 479 people whose lives were largely destroyed by being accused of being communists and the media was a partner in that I mean you go and you know there's an incredible book about Charlie Chaplan called Charlie Chaplain versus the United States of America and it is extraordinary the number of columnists who were talking to the FBI talking to Hoover and then writing stories about people who I mean Lee Grant couldn't get a job for 12 years because she wouldn't testify against her husband in front of the house on Activities Committee on American and so we've seen this before and I think that I'm not an expert in this but what I've observed oberved is that there is a lot of fear people are afraid for their own careers and their own positions if they stand in solidarity with somebody who has been found not guilty and I hope that as time goes on that that will begin to shift in the right direction let's still head on with some of the the cases one was uh uh Los Angeles Mass who made uh who didn't want to be named claimed that you had groped him at a house in Malibu in California sued you for sexual battery gender violence battery assault intentional infliction of emotional distress and false imprisonment and then died before the legal action reached Court what do you want to say about that well um because as you know social media was a blaze after that was this was all obviously a Sinister thing maybe this guy had been shut up blah blah the usual there actually but in terms of the legality of the case what is your well response to it my response to it is that we had irrefutable evidence to show that I wasn't even in the state of California when he made this accusation uh had had occurred um and we were very confident that we were going to be able to present as we have in other cases um that evidence I also would simply say this was a man who was over 60 years old and so there's lots of stories about me you know enjoying the company of younger men so this was the first time I was accused of abusing a senior citizen um and you know we found out from his family that he had cancer prior to filing that civil suit and he died of cancer and you know it was sad um but we never had the opportunity to go in front of uh the court and to prove our innocence there have been a couple of other stories about alleged accusers who also passed away which are entirely not true in the first place one of those people was not an accuser she was a stalker and in fact stalked me for many years sent white powder in the mail to the olic theater called in bomb threats to the ulic theater we had to evacuate the theater on a number of occasions and threatened my life and she was arrested charged and convicted in a court in the United States and served more than four years in prison and when she got out of uh prison she started making more threats and it was being examined by the court whether she was going to go back to prison when she was hit by a car uh and died of her injuries um and there was someone else who had told a funny story about having had an encounter with me in which I made a pass at him he told it in a very jokey way and then sadly um he had he'd been an individual who had had a lot of uh issues and a a lot of substance abuse and he was fighting back and talking about mental health and he had a book that he' written and in that radio interview he he told this story a year later when he sadly took his own life someone then said that he'd accused me of this that he was a victim and there was no court case with him there was no court case with this woman who was a stalker so they're just this is just internet you know conspiracy theories on the criminal trial you were charged with nine sexual offenses against four men between 2004 and 2013 and you were found not guilty on all counts now criminal trial is by definition a lot more serious than a civil case civil case the bar can be uh a lot lower right for guilt and you again you'll be found not guilty there when you're facing a criminal trial of that magnitude had you been found guilty on all counts I mean you would likely have gone to prison for considerable period of time I I believe so yes did that thought play on your mind a lot I mean how does that feel you you're an Oscar winning actor and suddenly you're facing a trial where someone may take your Liberty away for years only if we had had a crazy jury only if people hadn't actually listened and taken the time to weigh the evidence that we presented in our defense would that have ever been possible but we were very very fortunate um I had an incredible team Evan was a part of that team even though he's not a not a not a lawyer um but um what we were able to present as facts um there was really I mean look the day it happens I mean the the actual day where they're going to they're going to come in and tell you what the verdicts are yeah you're definitely I was definitely like you know what if this doesn't go the way I hope um but as each count was read and as each time the juror said not guilty I knew that we had presented the right case and I knew that we had the evidence to prove I was not guilty of those things that I was accused of Elton John and his Husband David fernish both gave witness statements El by video from his his home in uh south of France what did that mean to you to have people of his stature step up for you you've actually just reminded me that uh Elton was the first email I got on October 30th of 2017 after the rap story had come out saying we love you whatever you need we're here for you and Elton has been there and David have been there ever since what's most interesting about the fact that they testified in the trial in the UK was that I didn't ask them I told them a piece of information that one of the accusers had said about them which was not true and Elton and David said well we have to testify and I was like are you kidding no we absolutely have to testify we have to let the jury know that this individual is not telling the truth and they insisted on it that's the kind of friends that I have um that I've been very fortunate to have in my life have you seen Elton since yes what did you say to him well I gave him a big a hug and David a big hug we had a wonderful dinner um in France Last Summer um Evan and Lucy were there and it was a really beautiful it was very beautiful it's an old cliche that you find out who your friends are when the chips are down but you really have haven't you yes but I also don't catastrophize about the people that I haven't heard from yet because yeah there are some people who definitely ran into the forest but there are other people who have you know it took 6 months it took a year it took maybe two years it took you know we're seven years I'm still hearing from people that I hadn't heard from and I and I try not to um decide what that means you know some people just don't know what to say they don't know how to approach you they're not sure you want to be approached and so I continually find myself being very moved by people who take the time um and to reach out and to find out how I'm doing after the initial allegation from uh Anthony rap more than 50 other allegations came out and varying degrees of sexual misconduct like I say you've never been convicted of any offenses when you look at the totality of all these people coming up to say well he did this to me he did this to me he Gro me here he tried to kiss me here he you know all that kind of stuff I've read that you've actually you've reached out to some of these people and had good conversations with them and kind of put these things to to some form of closure is that right it is right that I have reached out to my friends who I had relationships with or encounters with um there are a whole lot of people that have made uh claims that I have not reached out to and the reason for that is that I do not feel that I need to have a conversation with somebody who has completely reimagined an experiened or or have made it up I'm absolutely 150% prepared to take accountability for those things that I did and mistakes that I made bad bad bad behavior sometimes um so what I was told and correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know you we've met a a few times but I I don't know you at all but what I was told by people who do know you is that in your thespian days in the theater World you'd put on a play you'd all go out you'd all have a few drinks you're very flirtatious and you would be quite suggestive with people and a lot of them didn't mind that at all and some people maybe with revisionist hindsight maybe not did mind it but that you were pretty indiscriminate in your kind of borderline maybe crossing the borderline in appropriate behavior would would you admit to that I'm not talking about anything criminal absolutely I'm just talking about General inappropriate B absolutely true um you recognize that that characterization I absolutely do a and and it's important for me to recognize that it's been important for me to understand that it's been important for me to hear and listen to someone else's perspective why they didn't feel they could say something to me at the time um it's very very important you know we we are we are theater rats you know that we we become families you you when you come every day it's not like a movie you know where you may have a scene with somebody on one day and another scene another day when you're doing a play you're coming every single day whole company and I've been so fortunate to have been a part of families that were being led by people like Jack Lemon and families that I led when I was in a position and it's an incredibly um it's very moving and it's very important and I've tried in the workspace to not cross the line because it's always risky if you find yourself attracted to somebody you're working with and I mean I've seen you say repeatedly and I don't doubt this for a moment that you believed in yourself that there was never any kind of quidd proquo thing that you didn't say to people if you sleep with me I'll help you get this job but what critics would say is well maybe not but you're Kevin spacy and if you're an 18 19 20 year old young male actor and Kevin spacy is fluttering his drunken eyelashes at you you know if I one of a better phrase yeah that was was very nice I like that um that in a way that in itself can constitute an an abuse of power even if you don't intend it to that there is a presumption from the young actor in that position I that a more powerful man a famous man a double Oscar winner is using all that to seduce someone do do you do you accept that I I I can understand that perspective I I I truly can but at the same time I'm a human being and if I fall in love with somebody across a room then am I not supposed to go and have a conversation with them or see if they're interested because I'm famous because that I mean you know look there are I'm sure you have heard countless stories about relationships that began with one of the parties being more aggressive than the other well 40% of all marriages historically began in the workplace historically with a an older man in a superior position to a slightly younger woman that was just the nature of of the workplace now it's very difficult to see how those numbers could possibly be happening because people are pretty much not allowed to have any workplace relationships so it's been a massive societal change which many think has gone too far do you think the pendulum post Meer you were caught up in that first wave that hysterical first wave saw many people taken down but do you think it's gone too far well I I I could say yes and not just in my particular case there have been others that I feel you know they may have been inappropri they may have done something that they wish they hadn't done but I I didn't think that what it was and maybe what they even admitted to was so heinous that they should have lost their career their ability to to make their livelihood um I think that is that is too far um but I also think we have to be mindful that it doesn't swing back too far in the other direction because you know you mentioned uh in 2017 the Harvey Weinstein investigation I I think had impact I think me too had impact because the New York Times its journalists its editors Ronan pharaoh and the people he was working with they investigated those claims for more than a year before they went to print they were confident at what they had did you know Harvey Weinstein was that gu sure yeah you did yeah I did a couple movies for Max but did you know what he was like I I knew he I knew I had a lot of arguments with him but I didn't know uh anything about what was going on privately no not at all people have tried to lump you in with him how do you feel about that um I try to understand that people want to resolve things very quickly and all I hope all Evan and I have been working on for a long time is ask asking people to ask questions to find out to not believe a headline that you might read I mean I you know I see all kinds of things that people say they believe is true and there's no truth to it whatsoever when you yourself as you did a few minutes ago you talk about bad behavior that you committed what do you mean by that what's your idea of bad behavior when you look back at what you were doing pushing the boundaries in what way I mean be being too handsy you know touching someone sexually gring people in a way that that I didn't know at the time they didn't they didn't want yeah some people would say that that is criminal that if you grope people in a sexual way against their wishes that that is a crime I I agree that the word grope is a very odd word I I I personally I I have caressed people I have been gentle with people that is the way that I am you're making a pass at someone you don't want to be aggressive uh you want to be gentle and you want to see if they're going to respond positively um so I I I think the word itself is not a word that I associate with my experience but would you say all of that was consensual or was it sedu you know an attempt at seduction that if it was repelled by definition becomes I guess non-consensual that if you're being handsy if you're groping people and they don't they don't want to do it then then they should let you know they don't want to do it so that you can understand it's non-consensual and stop so that brings me back to the point I made about if they're a young male actor and it's Kevin spacy and he's had a few drinks and they're in the bar that at night and he he gropes young male actor and they may feel they don't want to be part of that they don't like what's going on but they don't want to tell you because you're Kevin Spacey and it might damage their career do you understand how people could think that if they were young and impressionable and Keen to get on in their careers when you reflect on on those moments um yes and again um recognizing that understanding that and making a vow that that will never happen again for the rest of my life I will never behave in the ways that I did previously ever how hard is that made it for you to get a relationship um that's a good question I you know are you in one now I'm not in one now have you had any lasting one throughout this process yes has been possible yes it must be incredibly difficult on two levels one you're Kevin Spacey with all these headlines and court cases and so on which must be a deterrent to a lot of people the secondly you must be hesitant in yourself about making a move with anyone well if I've learned anything I've learned that a first move doesn't have to be physical and so there are ways to make a first move and find out if someone is interested or not but I also believe that many people they judge another human being from what they experience and so I am um hopeful and I believe that I will be able to meet someone who is willing to judge me for what they experience you TR from headlines could you trust someone enough do you think I I I absolutely believe I can I don't want to go through my life thinking everyone's out to get me I mean that would be a terrible way to live you'd like to fall in love and yeah maybe get married is that an aspiration I think being in a relationship let me start there being in a relationship don't get me married right away uh being in a relationship would be incredible because the thing that I think I know now even though I knew it before is that not being in a relationship just means that you don't you don't have an opportunity to share what you're going going through and the changes that you're making and how your life is evolving with another person and when I've been in relationships the thing that I always have loved the most is that I think for two instead of for one I was very struck recently by public statements of support for you from a number of public figures but several that I knew I know Liam niss I know a bit Sharon Stone I know better Liam n told the telegraph Kevin is a good man a man of character said he was deeply saddened to learn of new allegations against him we'll come to that this was the channel 4 uh show of the documentary he said that space is one of our finest artists in the theater and on camera personally speaking our industry needs him and misses him greatly and Sharon Stone said I can't wait to see Kevin back at work he's a genius he's so elegant and fun generous to a fault he knows more about our craft than most of us ever will she added it was clear young actors wanted and want to be around him it's terrible they're blaming him for not being ble to come to terms with themselves for using him and negotiating with themselves because they didn't get their secret agendas what do you feel about Sharon's last sentences well I think Sharon is is making that comment based on having looked at the channel 4 documentary and I think she specifically is talking about what that was about and what those claims were about um and I'm enormously grateful um not easy for people to of that stature to stick their head over the parit and take the flak which you never to be well first of all they didn't get any flak they really didn't no I know uh and second of all I'm enormously grateful to them and I just have to say I know I mentioned them a couple of times but I hope you're understanding why I am that as happy as I am for these individuals who've stood up so recently there's been one person standing up from the very beginning and that's Evan loen and I would not be here without him you really feel that absolutely I owe him everything you think you would have taken your life um I want to live I do want to live but there were times when I wasn't sure if I would make it the channel 4 shows Spacey unmasked did you watch it I've seen portions of it but not the whole thing you were never asked to do an interview no it seems extraordinary given the nature of the allegations you were given seven days to respond in writing um and you were just given a Fed comple yes or no um did you or did you not do the things that were being alleged right again this doesn't seem a particularly Fair process well I I think that um you know Channel 4 announced this documentary in in uh 2022 uh about four months before we started the rap trial in New York and a year or so before the UK trials would begin we were then sort of we heard that after the UK verdicts came in that they were having a rethink and I guess what they decided to rethink was oh we've gone we've started this documentary they' already started it so they'd spent money that they were going to make this as they claimed a conversation about uh bad behavior inappropriate behavior in the work you know in in in in my life and that and that that was what it was about to have a public conversation and and so they went out and they they found a number of individuals to to make a number of claims well one of them was a secret service agent from the house of cars called Daniel we got a clip of of something he said in the documentary I leaned in cuz he was saying something to me and then I felt something like something tickled me just right below my zipper and I was like what I look down and I see it's his finger yeah know his his hand touched my penis wasn't like us playing around the locker room a little joke or a little tap it was it was sexual I was touched I was inappropriately touched on set at work he just had these real dead eyes looking at me and I just felt like I was staring into like a soulless uh monster now he worked on the show for four years what's your response to that what do you feel about that you know I I know who that is um we had a lot of fun together um when he left the show we were emailing to each other um in fact uh in one of our flirty emails which we had um I asked him to send me he was talking about working out he was getting buff and I said oh send me a picture and he sent me a couple pictures that were um naked and provocative we've kill them H yeah that's one of them so he voluntarily sent you those yeah sent me these this is now a this allegation he makes I believe was in 2013 because I know the scene he's talking about and I know when we shot that scene M and this is now 2016 so that was 2013 this is now 2016 and we're like talking about getting together and he's sending me these kind of pictures and you just go okay so which which is true Daniel I think it's very clear what's true and by the way can I just also say I don't know why Channel 4 has not yet told the British public if they paid these individuals to tell these stories my brother's been paid a number of times for telling false and crazy stories so we know that they approached people and said they would pay them so did they pay these individuals for telling these stories did they know about these pictures and the emails and years off how could they no what they did was instead of coming to us in a reasonable fashion and saying listen we're going to we're thinking of airing this thing in 3 months or four months we want to give you an opportunity to respond to these I would have then gone and found those emails I would have shown them those emails we would have said guys if you're going to present a story present the whole story I mean just coming to this call when I saw the evidence that you provided just seems completely ridiculous if if he's doing that three years later how traumatized can he really be by what he claims happened in well this incident in 2013 there are a number of others in the channel 4 for a documentary whom we have also found uh exchanges between me and them and in one case years after well we have an example a former Marine called Scott who alleged this in the documentary all of a sudden I there's some activity happening next to me and kind of glance over and Kevin's just pleasuring himself you know some of the most horrific war footage ever recreated like there's no way that this is happening that this guy is rubbing one out during the invasion of Normandy and finally he reaches over and grabs my hand and tries to get me to to help out I was like no this is crazy so he's a gigantic Marine who presuma be is fought in walls um but there are some Salient points about this I don't apparently you've never seen Saving Private run no I haven't so why is he saying this I mean my last question did he get paid for telling the story I don't know what I do know is that he claimed that this incident at the movies happened in 1998 I have an email from him in 2011 I have an email from him in 2013 in which he's not only in the 2011 one says how great it was to see me when I was just in Los Angeles and I know I'd gone to Los Angeles at some point during the tour of Richard III we apparently went to a play together and he looked forward to seeing me again soon in the future so again to me this is ridiculous to you it could have been life Ian it has been life wrecking but coming off the back what was interesting to me coming off the back of all these uh court cases you've been involved in the reaction to this documentary was very interesting you actually began to get a lot of support from journalists and then from people like Liam n and Sharon Stone and others who just saw through a lot of what they saw to be nonsensical people who are victims of what they claimed to be I don't think a marine voluntarily sends the Cheery emails he's sending you years later if he genuinely experienced some great trauma watching a movie you say you've never watched right yes uh you know I mean Channel 4 presented this as if this was some deep dive some they called it forensic investigation and and at the center of this documentary they they they use my brother now my brother moved out of the house when he was 17 I then moved to New York to go to jard when I was 19 and in all the years since which is nearly 50 years we have seen each other even he admitted maybe four times and he sold stories about your mother sold stories that mean yeah I what he's done to hers is terrible what he's done to me doesn't matter the guy who drove me here the the Uber that you guys sent I know that guy better than I know my brother that and he's out there telling all these stories and talking about how he knows me and so that's the that's the that's the armchair psychologist that he use at the center of this documentary and and then they go back to 48 years ago when I was in high school and I was 17 years old guy makes a claim that I grabbed his junk while we were driving in a car I I mean I did a lot of embarrassing things when iol how can you possibly refute that I mean you could say it didn't happen I did I didn't say it didn't I said it's possible that might have happened I did a lot of embarrassing things in high school we all did I mean they could they could go back to Junior High when I pulled Stephanie's hair in in the seventh grade I mean Channel 4 said to CNN space Master is an important film exploring the balance of power and inappropriate behavior in a work environment aiming to give a voice to those who've previously been unable to speak speak out what did you make of that statement um it's embarrassing I mean had they had all this material that we've now been showing viewers it's impossible to see how Channel 4 could have put out the same documentary I as a former newspap editor I wouldn't have done I would have said hang on this's this this one's been sending in pictures years later this one's been sending him friendly emails wanting work waned to work with him again none of that makes sense I don't know you that well but I do know facts when I see them and I was actually annoyed on your behalf I can't even imagine how you felt because it seemed to me like a well a bit of a stitch up like there was a a wish to take you down overriding what had already happened in a criminal court and a civil court well I I I I appreciate that that that's your perspective that's purely on what I've seen right that's just with my journalist head on just looking at stuff and saying this doesn't make sense and again no not withstanding that you have you know you've been pretty honest about the inappropriate bad behaviors you put it the groping which many times would have been unwanted and was rejected and people will make a judgment about you about about those admissions I don't think you're trying to betray yourself as some Angelic character I I nor do I think you were right I mean this is you know I I didn't see you in those days I I when I saw you at a party you certainly didn't do that to me Kevin um in fact we met at a party in 2009 just after Obama got elected and it was quite interesting it was a mutual friend of ours Matthew Freud at one of his legendary parties and I asked you came over and I said are you happy Obama 1 and this it's quite preent in a way you said oh my God I'm so happy at last we have someone who can stop the rest of the world thinking all Americans are completely Bonkers well look where we are now um yeah yeah but I guess my point is that I absolutely can have sympathy with you for what I see is an overreach by the media where they haven't got the whole story and perhaps if they had they would have done these things a different way and I can also see that by your own admission your behavior was extremely inappropriate and some people would view it as more serious than that that I think that's my kind of overview of your behavior through that period that you know these things may not have been true but other times you did stuff you wish you hadn't done and it was non-consensual and shouldn't have happened and times have maybe changed pretty dramatically now where maybe you wouldn't behave like that well regardless of the times I am not going to behave that way and I would now we're at a place where okay what next I mean I'm trying to seek a path of redemption I'm trying to find a way to return to what I love doing which is to be a full fulltime working actor and have you had any calls since this strange period where actually far from Channel 4 nailing you back to the Cross actually you've had a lot of sympathy a lot of support now a media narrative is changing quite significantly big famous stars coming out supporting you has that made any impact on your employability now you getting calls yes yes I think that what's what what we've been able to see Evan and I it's watched because he gets all these you know offers that come in is that now directors fellow actors producers financiers are so excited to work with me are so pleased to offer me something and then we get into the exhibition part of it and the streaming services or the studios or the Distributors and what we tend to see is that everyone's on board and then one person some executive somewhere says oh our audience you know a lot of our audience is going to be upset if we if we buy this movie and I I would only ask who are you speaking for because I don't think that I would like to think that um the people that stopped me on the street and have stopped me for the last seven years have been so generous and so wanting to know when I'm going to get back to work that I think that these executives are attempting to speak for all of the British public or all of the American public and I think that I hope that that begins to subside because I do believe that the majority of people would like me to get back to work I want to talk to you about something slightly uh left field but your name was attached to another big Scandal which was the prince Andrew Scandal uh and famously it was reported that you and gilay Maxwell um were invited to the throne room by prince Andrew it then got briefed that you may have been the one who invited gillain Maxwell wow what was the truth I hadn't heard that one this is the the throne from room at bakan Palace just to be just to be clear MH who invited who to this well let me try to put this in context um before I even get into that um in 2002 I got a call from President Clinton who I had become friends with over many years inviting me to come with him on an 8-day humanitarian trip that he was going to make to Africa and South Africa and I thought it was an incredible opportunity and apparently he was not having great success with getting people to say yes because it wasn't like one night in New York it was eight days in Africa and South Africa the fact that it was primarily to raise awareness and prevention for AIDS and particularly for mothers who had HIV to get the medication they needed to not pass it on to their children so I said yes absolutely and in September of 2002 we took off from New York and we went to Ghana and mosambique and Zimbabwe and Rwanda and Johannesburg and and Cape Town and this was one of the most incredible experiences I've ever had um the doctors and nurses that we met the what we learned about how they were treating patients the economic development that the president was also talking about in terms of Africa and where it was going to go in the future the people we met we spent a day with Nelson Mandela one of the most extraordinary um just an incredible trip meant so much to me and then the president was invited by Tony Blair to give the speech at Blackpool in the labor Party Conference that year what was that so we flew then to London and the president said to me before before we leave tomorrow you want to come I'm going to go to Buckingham Palace tomorrow see Prince you won't come so I I said sure So I'm a part of the president's party and there must have been I think there were 21 guests uh of the Clinton Foundation when we went to Africa and South Africa so it was like 18 or so people came to Buckingham Palace that morning and um we were wandering through and there were people brought us into the throne room and I sat down and a bunch of people came and sat down next to me and a bunch of pictures were taken and then we went up and we met prince Andrew had never met him before and have not seen him since so that's the context then president and I went up to Blackpool in 2015 I started seeing Reports online things on my Twitter account that I had flown to this guy Jeffrey Epstein's Island and I had abused young girls and I was like I mean if you'd asked me in 2015 maybe even if you would asked me in 2002 did I know a guy named Jeffrey Epstein I probably would have said no well of course I have since learned who he is and I have since been able to go back and find out that the airplane that we flew on for this humanitarian mission was owned by Jeffrey Epstein and to then learn oh he was actually on some of those flights and this Max wman was on some of those flights I didn't know him I've never spent any time with him I was with the Clinton Foundation people that's who I was with now the what I understand is that he didn't start to be investigated until 2005 by authorities in Florida so here's what I can tell you this Maxwell woman she was one of many people that sat down next to me in that throne room I have no relationship with her I had no relationship with him I mean he's not my friend I'm not a confidant I've never spent time with him and interestingly I will say this I was very fortunate that President Clinton introduced me a lot of Business Leaders in London because he knew I was coming to the Old Vic and I developed relationships with Robert Earl Pulu Lovich the the uh um Robert Earl a lot of wonderful people sh Richard caring people who supported the work that we did at the Old Vic and gave money to us do you know who I never asked for anything was Jeffrey Epstein I didn't want to be around this guy because I felt he put the president at risk on that trip to South Africa because there were these young girls and we were like what who is this guy so I will say this there were young girls on those flights there were young girls on those flights yeah and that's been out they've talked about it um but here's my point there's a big difference between not remembering that I met some guy and some woman on a humanitarian trip where my focus was entirely on what we were there to do and not remembering whether I went to somebody's Island so I never went to Jeffrey Epstein's Island I did not know him and I never saw him or her after that morning of bucking he didn't even come to bucking a palace she was is it true that prince Andrew sought your assistance and wanted you to testify that Gil Maxwell was your guest not his during that buck and Palace talk I I I heard a report about that but at no time did anyone ever contact me on his behalf and I as I say I I'm not friends with him I never saw him after that day what do you think about what's happened to him I mean I don't I don't I mean I don't know anything about it it's not it's not I'm not going to talk about someone else's Scandal you know I my point is is that I had enough accusations of my own to deal with I don't need to inherit someone else's the person I'm told has been very supportive to you in the royal family is actually the King when he was Prince Charles is that true that is true um we were very fortunate um uh that when he was the prince of Wales um he loved the Old Vic he believed in it uh his grandmother had been the patron there for many years um he came to see our Productions um and uh I was always uh honored to be able to do what I could for the princess trust um and I wish him all the best with his health and when your trouble started when the Scandal blew up he he did reach out to you uh no I haven't heard from him directly no but through other people that may be true come on Kevin you you'll know whether that's true or not well he's now the king of England I I do but you know when you start paying your guests perison you're going to you're going to get the but he did contact you no he did not contact me directly no but he sent a message to you I I I heard a message yes and I'm very very grateful for that a message of support yes that must have meant a lot to you yeah but look I don't want to drag him into all this you know he's he's he's he's uh well many people think it was a good a good thing for him to do well I'm not saying it isn't I'm just saying that you know he's he's got a lot on his plate and and I wish him the very best but it was a message he wanted you to hear I I I can't I can't can't tell you what what he was intending I don't think I'm getting the full story there Kevin well you know that's because you have your newspaper hat on I've got my new YouTube hat on your new YouTube hat yeah cuz he kned you he did he did very grateful for that other people have had nigh hoods taken away that that hasn't happened to you no it has not are you pleased that it hasn't I don't know why it would um but I can tell you that uh I was very touched by the fact that uh because when the queen uh was with us and we're sad that she's not um there was always a day where she would do it and it just so happened that I was I was working on that day and so I guess what they normally do is they would mail it to you but but Prince Charles King Charles said no no I I I want to give it to him so he he organized a ceremony at Clarence house that was a very very moving day do you remember what he said to you uh he was just very pleased uh that I had done the work that I'd done and mother really loves what you've done the old it's wonderful mother what mother loves what you've done with the old V wonderful with with the with the old marvelous you had the Queen's backing your work at the old that's quite something yeah it was quite something yeah are you are you a monarchist you believe in the royal family I do I do how do you think he's doing obviously he's got cancer very sadly but he's still out there doing his I think that he I mean first of all I think that uh he has done such an extraordinary job I think that it's been so wonderful to see that the the British public has been so supportive of him um you know beautiful coronation um and uh he's you know he's in many ways the the man he always was um and I think there were a lot of doubters um but if you watched what what he cared about what he fought for um the the kind of work that he did with young people in education and the Arts um all of these things that he continues to do even though now the Prince of Wales is is running the the prince's trust I think it there's an enormous amount to admire about have you written to him since he exceeded to the throne I have written to him but I haven't sent it yet really why I just you know some you're just waiting for the right moment um but I did write to him well you're here in the UK now seems we're literally about three miles away from where he's probably currently standing yeah but I don't know that he opens his own meal somebody will for him one of the big things for you obviously Netflix house of cards they basically froze your appearances in it and then throws you out all together what are your feelings towards Netflix well I haven't next flixed and and chilled for a while um myself but um you don't watch it anymore I just I just I just haven't you know I've just been you haven't used I've been kind of uh you know no I I think I've watched a few things uh certainly during the pandemic I was I was watching but I've just been a little too uh involved in other things that would you feel they let you down um so you under the too early should a way to you to get through the system I I I think that we had a really remarkable relationship and I think that um there is no doubt that house of cards really put them on the map um and you know even though they made the decision they made um which I think was a strange decision um a wrong decision I believe it was a wrong decision I believe it was wrong for them as a company um I believe that it put them in a position where then anyone who was ever accused of anything they had to respond in a similar way although it does seem with Dave Chappelle that the Ted surand us has has learned to be supportive of of controversial right individuals do you wish he done that V I do wish he'd done it with me and I and I believe that part of what ended up happening as a result of them in a sense getting rid of me so fast was they send a a signal to everyone else well they had this long relationship they must know what's real and they didn't know anything and they didn't wait to find out what it was that might be discovered and have you heard from Ted since no I have not and I hope that at some point when all of the dust settles um because there's all these confidentiality uh agreements I hope that someday the public will be able to see what it was that I was accused of on House of Cards and can decide for themselves whether it was deserving of losing that role and losing that series how supportive was your co-star I haven't heard from Robin um at all no not nothing since when since uh September or October of 2017 since it first blew up you've heard nothing at all wow look I I understand um do you I do I think that by distancing herself from me it allowed her to not have to answer a lot of questions um and I I understand that um but look you know uh what would the questions have be um I'm sorry what what questions was she avoiding by doing that oh having to answer questions about me right so I think by saying that she didn't really know me right um did she know you I think we knew each other rather well yeah good friends I I believe so yes I I had a marvelous wonderful time working with her every day did you ever see her socially yes sure for for what for dinner for well I mean I've known when she was married to sha Penn for many many years and we we go back a very long time we did a movie together many years ago called Hurley Burley so we've known each other very well she made out she pretty well barely near you outside of work I understand that's not true not in my opinion no do you feel let down no as I say I'm trying very hard to not be judgmental and to try even if people do things that I don't understand to try to seek understanding about it and not judgment um you know and she went on to carry on with the show she did making a lot of money from a show which you helped make one of the biggest shows in the world she did she deserves everything that she's been offered she's an extraordinary Talent would you like to see her would you like her to cont I I I Adore Robin and I I think that the thing that made me have so much of a good time on that show was making Robin laugh and we laughed every day and then she stubbed you in the bite no I I I will not let you get away with that absolutely not I'm suggesting it she no well then I I I reject your suggestion well I don't I have a different view I she is a wonderful person a wonderful actress I know and and it was a very fact she's never once made any attempt to contact you I find extraordinary that's all right you can judge it if you choose to I'm not I'm trying to be understanding I I know her a bit I'm just very surprised that that is the case it seems extraordinary to me that you could work with somebody so closely and be so successful together and then at the first sign of any Scandal you don't wait to see whether the Scandal is actually borne out by any conviction you just convict and move on well you know what we're not done yet you know life goes on so we'll we'll see what happens in the future you're still facing some legal Jeopardy one of the people in the criminal case is taking a civil action against you it does feel like it's never ending this does it feel like that for you uh there's some days where you're just like what um but I truly believe that we are rounding a corner um what do people say to you when they see in the street oh I'm it moves me so much that people take the time to ask me how I am they talk about movies they talk about um characters that's when I feel like wow I did my job in that one because they're talking about that person as if that person is real they're using that character's name not me and people have expressed such concern and hope and they just want me to get back to work and I'm with them on that there's a little bit of you you know we saw the clips of two two Oscar wins many people think you're one of the greatest if not the greatest actors of your generation you've been deprived from doing the thing you love does a bit of you dream of winning another Oscar of standing there in the center of Hollywood again well see you're just without being a prior you know you're just trying to get me married off again you know look what I what I hope for is that I have the opport Unity to continue to tell stories because that's what I feel I was put on this Earth to do was to tell stories and if I'm lucky enough to have collaborators who are inspiring and excited to work with me and come together and we put all of this in the past and I'm able to come on a film set and and make sure that everyone's having a good time make sure that people are getting what they need to do the best work that they can and that I'm a part of making sure that everyone is treated right and I've learned from my own mistakes that would be a very good day and whether there's an award that happens at the end of that that's for others and what would you say if there are young actors who had a bad experience with you genuinely over the years by your own admission when you behave badly inappropriately what message if they're watching this what message would you have specifically for them um you're asking me to answer a very broad question as if every single encounter I ever had in my life would would allow me to want to say something to all of those people well no let me be specific yeah if if you're more specific I I think easier to answer that question so specifically when you said you you know there were times when you behaved badly yes when you made when you groped people when you shouldn't have done when you were too handsy when they may not have wanted you to be those people the ones who genuinely didn't want you to do that felt bad about it what do you say to them I do not speak to them on on television what I do is I speak to them directly in person and we have an intimate and genuine conversation have you been doing that I have been doing that with how many with quite a few I mean 10 20 30 no I'm curious uh I I I I'm not going to go down that road I I appreciate what you're asking but a significant number but a significant number not just a handful no and and I would simply say this those conversations have been incredible I think to put me in a position where you're now asking me to do make a PR move is just not something I feel comfortable doing understand I I I am very very I'm actually more interested that you've been having the private conversations with the people yes and and what what approach do you take when you have them they're private conversations Paris I I I can just tell you that I'm grateful that people are talking to me I'm grateful that they're sharing what they're sharing with me I'm learning I'm growing and you know what about the work it never stops I will be doing this work for the rest of my life you mean on yourself on myself this is not something you go off and you get a diploma and then you come back and say look at me I did all I mean what what's it's not funny because of the circumstances but what's kind of ironic is that you were famously a very private guy you said that at the start and if IID interviewed you 15 years ago we would not have been going anywhere near any of this stuff we also would have been 10 10 minutes right no no but that literally I me you would not have subjected yourself to such a forensic conversation yeah about you your character your life your mistakes and so on is it is it quite cathartic to be doing it how do you feel now we've been talking for an hour and a half maybe how do you feel about it the conversation honestly I am it's like a weight is lifted off my shoulders because I'm okay to talk about these things and I wasn't for a very very long time and I don't want to miss out on things that I missed out on before as I said now I I want to focus on the things that happen off screen and off stage much more than I focused on them in the past and I'm I'm blessed to have people around me who believe in me and I'm I'm blessed to have been able to learn what I've been able to learn can you imagine if I didn't learn anything if it was seven years that I learned nothing I wouldn't want to be alive if that were true but I very very very much I'm so grateful that I am alive and I got through this and I'm coming out the other side of it where' you live now uh well it's funny you ask that question because this week uh where I have been living in Baltimore um is being foreclosed on it my house is being sold at auction really so I have to go back to uh to Baltimore and and put all my things in storage really so the answer to question is I'm not quite sure where I'm going to live uh now but I've been in Baltimore for um since we started shooting House of Cards there so how long is that I moved there in 2012 so this has been your home for 12 years well not this particular place but this place has been my home and Evan and Lucy's home uh since 2016 why is it being full closed cuz I can't pay the bills that I owe are you I mean are you facing bankruptcy been a couple of times when I thought I was going to file but we've managed to sort of Dodge it um at least uh as of today how much money do you have none really well I mean you know you have some sense of legal bills yeah I I still owe a lot of legal bills that I have not been able to pay in yes do you mind me ask you how much you ow it's U it's considerable Millions many millions yes the house itself is many millions what are you going to do get back on the horse get back on the horse I wish you all the best in getting back on that horse thank you it must have been a nightmare to live through it and I don't say that because I think you've been completely blameless we've discussed by your own admission the the flaws that led to your behavior and so on but I do believe In fairness and I just think that you you've not been convicted of any crimes either in criminal court or a civilian court and at some point Society has to recognize that they may have their own view about you good bad or ugly but they there has to be a sense of fair fairness about it and the fact that you're now losing your home and you have no money and you owe millions and so on I think people will watch this whole interview and I suspect they'll reach the same conclusion I am with this is too much there's a uh there's a wonderful story that uh is about one of the Hollywood 10 and it was that Dalton Trumbo um was rejected as everyone was by the unions by the motion picture producers by the director skill by the writer skill everybody and he had to work for many many years writing under a pseudonym it's the only way he could work was to use a different name so he didn't get the credit on a movie that he actually wrote some other invented person got that credit he got paid and then one year a remarkable man in my business who was an icon and a producer and a movie star stood up and said enough is enough and Kirk Douglas said Dalton trumble's name is going on spartus and everyone told him he' get canceled everyone told them don't do it they're you're going to be called a commi lover and he says sometimes you have to do the right thing on principle and the moment he stood up and said enough is enough The Blacklist was over and Dalton Trump's name is on spartus are you waiting for that person to do that for you I don't believe and never will believe that the world doesn't have more Kirk douglases but what an example and he said at 98 when he was reflecting he said what I do know is that history repeats itself and we should never ever allow that to happen again who are you going to vote for in your election in November well you know it's hard answer that question uh vote you know voting is uh voting is personal it's a private thing do you know who you're going to vote for uh I don't know has everyone jumped in the race already is everyone well you have two elderly people one of whom is facing 100 criminal charges the other one can barely say his name in public or stay on his own two feet is this a good reflection of your great nation what do I say before when after Obama about Obama what did I say you said at last we have someone who can stop the rest of the world thinking all Americans are completely Bonkers that was 2009 here we are 15 years later and what did I just say history repeats itself yeah we shall see we shall see Kevin it's been good to talk to you thank you very much for having me I very much appreciate it it's been a fascinating conversation obviously these are difficult conversations for you but I do sense they're cathartic for you and I do hope people are watching there's got to be a sense of fairness about this eventually I think most people will conclude you suffered more than someone in your position should you're not you're not a convicted criminal and you're being treated as almost one of the worst criminals the Hollywood's ever seen it seems to me crazy I thank you for that very much good to see you thank you and best of luck thank you