Transcript for:
Challenges and Ethics in Content Creation

this is the same cope like you're not going to crack the glass ceiling of like a thousand viewers really hard as a woman i just don't think this is true at all uh you know that's a very tactful way of doing the whole like you know they're only here cuz they like fantasize about you right have you thought about that how do you handle that exactly literally if I stand up to go pee I will put up a break screen just that no one sees me stand up but at the same time like there are limit like the opposite of wolf it's nothing to do with disliking her or being petty it is literally a complaint I had from the time when I actually liked her hey she wouldn't say "Here's the definition we're going to use." She would say "I'm going to call what you're defining this as as blah blah blah blah is what she would tell people right i'm going to call what you're talking about blah blah blah blah that's what I'm going to call it." So when I say blah blah blah blah I mean we mean what you said i trying so hard to bail Arerite out and Rob's just like "Give me anything that makes me think you know anything about anything say a name that shows you've read any article on this and are speaking from any place of authority." So Alex Jones is her primary example of a whistleblower really important was about to So by the way I I'm just so glad that this guy was like "Oh you just hate her so much she's not really condescending with blah blah blah." Yeah keep up retent today but first I think I want to go to the Aerodite thing hold on did I give enough time i gave enough time we can start on this apparently it gets good at the Dr k part so I don't know i don't know seems to be that way it might some window captures do I guess let's just look to your chat let's see if they're hearing we hear both now you're good yep don't touch it cereal for every meal all right so I vaguely knew about Twitch because in high school I don't want to do the whole Well he he said "Listen not not so goofball." He said he would come on okay my friends sort of forced me into it so I remember putting up with me yeah um my chat is wondering if you could ever do I think she's a med student um IRL streams on your sui on your sub eyes sub eyes on my sub eyes o I mean that's definitely a hippo violation probably i was going to say I feel like No she's a surgeon more importantly though I think I have like a principled objection IRL still don't know what the schedule for it is like oh that was going to be something crazy hold on definitely a hippo violation probably a principled objection irl IRL stream so I mean interesting people would not tell me like you know I'm being too like paranoid about this but there was literally an IRL girl who got stabbed to death recently you know it's like why is the risk ever uh I mean that was in Japan okay there's some crazy anti fans over there in Japan i guess I didn't hear about that it's not anyone else's fault part up for needing viewers that I would like I don't know take that risk i didn't I didn't hear about that recently like I heard about that a long time ago but Oh yeah like I think she's Sorry so it was like a Japanese streamer and I guess the story is like she had gotten a lot of money from this guy and refused to pay him back and then he figured out where she was and stabbed her to death on stream yeah she also got stabbed because she borrowed like 10k turns out train has a whole hit list based on that criteria holy [ __ ] yeah okay i mean IRL stream is interesting so I've spent a fair bit of time not a fair bit of time but I spent a couple of days with Amaranth i don't is there if you're familiar with her at all hold on amaranth update on kick now yeah she was like a big kind of like Twitch queen um and she got a kick contract and is mostly over there now but she's basically all like now it's just like constant IRL streaming so it's like a very surreal like sitting down to have tacos in like her hometown and like the camera's just like there like watching you as you're like taco um which is like a very interesting experience obviously and obviously Ammo just recently had that massive house she was the one that got broken into and robbed and pistol whipped and stuff so yeah um not that that's soothing your fears about IRL streaming i I feel like that makes it a little worse i mean at least you didn't get physically assaulted wow aren't we having so much fun if if we keep laughing and smiling they'll all know that we're having so much fun right now seems like also pretty low bar to be aspiring too yeah um okay so not interested in IRL are you a gamer um not really i've been promising my chat that we would play five hearts under one roof a um is this bridges now i don't think so other than that I like have never really gamed before really okay i don't know if it would be beneficial to me to start yeah so it you said if I start streaming seriously maybe I'll get a So what would streaming seriously look like for you um I mean I think I'm going to start skipping through i'm looking for this showdown on Dr k happy about that whereas I think the new kind of has become more lifestyle focused and they care more about being real people essentially and so that I think is another this has to be leading into it right Dr i saw Mike Isert getting mentioned in chat like um conflicts okay i mean there was one I think there was even like a paper that came out in it was a journal for vascular surgery I believe and it was essentially a study of vascular surgeon trainees and what they posted on Instagram and like there was huge outcry because they essentially like very eloquently shamed female vascular surgery residents for posting bikini photos and like coasting themselves with alcohol and stuff and so I do think there's just like a generational gap and also maybe just like a philosophical gap as well of like how much of an ethical role and that probably is why I'm interested in surgical specialties like I think skilled neurosurgeon but in family practice I want the doctor with a good life work balance because I want to be able to talk to them and like have a good rapport and relationship with that individual right which I think is very close to it yeah i guess I'm curious your thoughts on that like do you do you feel the same way about the obsessionist at every level of medicine or do you think that it varies based on disciplines um I definitely think it varies and I think you bring up like a very good point that you know your bedside manner may be more or less relevant depending on what specialty you're in and honestly I think surgeons choose surgery because they don't like clinic you know they don't love patient visits they don't love when patients are like oh like while I'm here you I can't send messages on my Discord account like there's also this like weird pain in my elbow that I've had for four years you know like can you take a look at that too like as we're walking out the door so I think for that reason it makes sense that surgeons in general don't have good bedside manner and they don't care about having good bedside manner because at the end of the day by and large oh if you didn't know there's like uh yeah uh there's just like people who are mass reporting everybody in my discord so unlucky right now I had some message I think I referenced the counterpoints talk where he talked about how he would um how he would like trade off one kid for 100 saved ones or whatever and then five to one and etc i think I referenced that and that was used to uh tie me up to function even if you're if you essentially it's just me bouncing off of what she says so sometimes conversations are really serious a little bit of background research was on um and President Sunday thinks IQ is evil and I was like me I cared more about like what oh hold on used to do you got President Sunday content and so I didn't go above and beyond to like outline like where I strongly disagreed with Stephen typically when I disagreed with him I would talk privately with him i could be like "Hey that's like this is actually gonna get interesting we got to roll it back we're we're missing context now something interesting going on as long as you pass reertification exams." Like there's no oversight on your professional development so you can totally become like a pro carnivore diet person and there's truly no way for like the American Board of Surgeons to come and like fact check you you know and I think that's the dangerous part gotcha um I also just I think Oh I see how this I can see exactly how this flows into Dr k dr mike like the handsome one i guess the handsome one like he Yeah I don't know i think he also is just very reductive when he explains things it partially makes sense because I'm not his intended audience but I do feel like he explains things in ways that make it easier to understand but at the expense of nuance I suppose um yeah i don't know i mean I you know like he can do whatever he wants for a check but I personally am not a big fan gotcha okay i uh I want to see if I can steal man the opposite side a little bit so yeah okay cuz I don't know if you Sorry maybe you don't know my background so also tell me to shut the up at any moment because I'm like a pretty No I was going to ask like about your streaming background and stuff okay so Arerodite really likes how Dr k has developed in a unique way and she defends like anybody who does these unique developments and can defend like based on clinical results how it's gone right so I can see exactly how they get into Dr okay after this given her opinion of like well there's no oversight over your professional development so you can do whatever cookie you want and end up wherever you want and nobody has anything to say about I did like a little bit of background research okay i was telling my viewers this but like I looked you up on YouTube to see like what content you've done and stuff and there are some people who seriously hate you oh my god no way that's not me by the way that's not talking about me that's not me okay that's other people that's not me i am fair i am relentlessly fair at all times they couldn't possibly be talking about me like there's You have some serious serious haters yes I do yeah and that's how I knew you were like a big big time star i'm I actually think my haters might be more powerful and and and strong at this point than anything else um uh I mean part of the hate is that I've caughten I think a lot of people's angers at Destiny uh the streamer uh because I was friends with him we were in business together until some of the recent like scandals um stepped away from doing business with him but I don't really believe in this like performative public disavowel stuff uh cuz we're very very close friends as well and I I I would just love if um if anything he did on any level actually changed your opinion of him or how you approached like basically continued to associate and wanting him on your podcast and [ __ ] personally I think it's like why would she call her her she calls for conservatives to disavow Andrew Tate is that performative is that performative or is that based on their morals based on their moral values you want them to disavow Andrew Tate right okay so I feel like based on yours I don't know it seems super easy it seems super easy is toxin good yes or no come from a background of addiction treatment it's very bad it's very bad what do you want me to say i'm a very strong rehabilitative justice person i don't think that you label people ontologically irredeemable um but I think being I'm not going to lie I try not to lean on the woman card too much i do think that there is like Except Except when it comes to the Destiny thing okay I'm a woman around Destiny so I am attacked she literally just leaned on the woman card hold on it's like on Riyle's thing isn't it wait wait wait wait let me go to Oh hold on hold on didn't Riyle just put out a thing on this i thought he just did do Destiny's actions and meltdowns at Kelly Jean demonstrate him being on the path to being redeemed i mean not not then obviously like that's really bad like obviously obviously um it changes nothing about how I interact with him or any any part of my friendship it changes nothing but it's really bad the issue is like there's probably there's probably some sort of commentary about misogyny there um but I think it's less compelling if it if it comes from me with Destiny and the rest of the molesters who say one thing and do the opposite i just can we like try to use the right words for things like you don't need to use more moral uh e- rapist is funny words for bad behavior we have words for it right like destiny violated a friend's trust consent violated habitual consent violator is the most apt term for him habitual consent violator massively uh potentially in multiple multiple ways i feel like we can talk about that betrayal without it's not it's not trust trust trust really is another positive loading of that term right consent he needed affirmative consent he did not gain affirmative consent he has violated her consent it wasn't like hey I'm trusting you with this fact and now we have a trust established it was "Hey I don't like I you need positive consent to share those videos with other people everybody has that line why are we turning it into like molestation which just didn't happen right like can't we do this can't we talk about Harry Sison and be like "Yeah he was being a womanizer." And it definitely seems like he was dodging the level of honesty that he could have about how many other He lied that's what you call by the way he was dodging the level of honesty he lied he lied to some women to get some nudes to maintain relationships i know that that's not like really a dealbreaker for her in any way but yeah okay shouldn't even like hold people to that morality themselves when they try to hold others to it woman he was talking to without being like Anyway sorry i I'm like actually skitsoing out about her old [ __ ] we're on to the new [ __ ] where's the new [ __ ] there it is like some just straight up misogyny driven in it um combined with I think sometimes it's easier to be mad at like the smaller person especially if they're a woman which women are often kind of viewed as like the extension of the larger male in their life bro counterpoints has gotten way more heat than you have from a lot of people a lot of people hate counterpoints that's the least feminine guy in internet politics or at least this section of the internet right if they have a husband women are often viewed as an extension of their husband they're assumed to have the same world view and beliefs and um I think I caught a lot of kind of secondary sideways anger in that direction so there's like a lot one second i need to reset headphones really quickly of extra hatred um I think right now towards me um that I think the parts that I think are valid is that I don't think I've done a good job of highlighting where I differ really strongly because I also didn't really take my social media career super like overly seriously like as far as like me i cared more about like what media can be used to do for like good things right and so I didn't go above and beyond to like outline like where I strongly disagreed with Stephen typically when I disagreed with him I would talk privately with him like I'd be like "Hey like the way you're talking to Cutie Cinderella here I think it's like not okay i think it's a violation of your ethics." Right um but I wouldn't go publicly and like make a big performance of it cuz it's kind of weird it's really weird when you're close friends with like very um large content creators where it feel it it can be weird but like here's the whole thing there's an argument for like oh I believe this is the argument a lot of people use for Destiny or was the counterpoints one uh if you're in the Nazi party is it incumbent on you to change the Nazi party from within or to just like outwardly step forward and like denounce it entirely i've heard this argument used right and I think that's her argument is changing it from the inside the issue is like nobody has any evidence of any changes happening whatsoever based on their input so like what what is happening how how are you helping by staying associated i think it's mostly financial and the financial tie does not have to be uh like official it doesn't have to be you own a podcast together the financial tie can be I'm not going to disavow this guy and I'm going to reap the rewards of not disavowing this guy and the audience that I gain from that feels like there's an expectation and a reward for speaking about them particularly negatively for like monetary reasons that I think muddies relationships a lot um so I think I didn't do a super good job of setting myself apart from Steven initially the monetary incentive for speaking for destiny is so much higher and was so much higher the monetary incentive is super clear and then I also caught a lot of hatred from this guy named President Sunday um because I was a uh my background is in addiction counseling and psychometrics and I talked about IQ research specifically which was like well within my scope to talk about that's dominantly what my background in psychometrics is on um and President Sunday thinks IQ is evil and I was like "Yep people use it for evil things but you can use it also to diagnose like I definitely just told Sunday to his face that IQ is like absolutely helpful and seems to be like pretty determinative in terms of being a measure right?" And he didn't go and do a hit piece on me about it he was like "Well we disagree." I I find it unbelievable that that would be his only and primary contention with a very serious like learning disorders and like you can use it for good or for bad and lots of people have used it for bad but that doesn't mean we to throw away the neurosych tool uh essentially mhm so what were you doing I guess before social media and then I guess what are your plans now after the schism happened yeah so I was working I guess I could be fully public about what I was doing before I was working in a lab as a psychometrist i was doing uh testing of IQ and a couple of other neurosych tests um are you neurointerested said you said neurosurgery which makes me think that you're Oh um I'm interested in orthopedic surgery and then now plasticy but my roommate actually just matched into neurosurgery okay cool that's super exciting yeah so I was doing like whipsies and um just full gamuts of neurosych tests for a longitudinal study on the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome on children's development um so I was like one of the people training others nsa is in denial to what IQ measures to the government of Alberta paid me to do that times 13 so yeah that was super important woman there's not curious I guess like what your interest in that and like whether or not that's still the end goal yeah so um that started when I was 19 i just decided so I used to work I did almost a decade of sorry a lot of this is going to be just going through histories that I'm not super interested in if you guys don't like spelunking then unlucky you both volunteer and professional work with high-risisk youth so uh Lunariz thank you for the five gifted let's go uh by the way I did not reset the hours correctly but maybe we're going to be okay we'll see maybe it's going to be fine um before it was professional I was at like a summer camp like a Christian summer camp for high-risisk youth um which was a really good camp like it genuinely cared about the kids like a lot of people here i'll just add the hour i don't care just assume like like brainwashing and It really wasn't it really wasn't like that it was an amazing camp um and yeah I would just work with like really we the camp tried to specialize working with um kids of foster care group home and homelessness uh and single parent households and we worked with the main kind of like this the social worker system in Alberta to get the kids to camp for free basically so it's a super principle behind the treatment center so offering them sports stuff offering them um there's like some types of therapy it's like called wilderness therapy but people equate it with like the abuse of wilderness there's just not that much evidence on it so everything you say stuff about me is is it's probably not somebody that I need to take their opinion overly seriously as to like to gauge okay hold on hold on increasingly she did we just get into the hater stuff let's see let's see a person I think a lot of institutions are realizing that most media she ran a wilderness camp no she did a she did she worked for a treatment center for youths that used like animal therapy and wilderness therapy as a part of their treatment style would say I I like and that's me like spitballing i think that's pretty accurate though a drama passes within two weeks and so there's a certain level of a lot of funders that I would be looking for would have to be comfortable with my media presence obviously um but also I think increasingly as social media kind of like is getting increasingly uh somewhat subsumed into our institutions i think people will be able to engage more healthily with social media they'll have better media literacy right there's a certain level media literacy I'm sure you have to have of like reading the chat and understanding like oh that person who's saying like insane stuff about me is is it's probably not somebody that I need to take their opinion overly seriously as to like to gauge my content necessarily like they're they're probably just like taking out their own like mental health issues potentially on in me on me in the chat um so I think there's a lot of that's very convenient to just be like anybody I'm not muted at all to be like anybody who you almost got me okay anybody who dislikes me who says something bad about me that's somebody who like doesn't know they're having like a mental health crisis anybody who doesn't like me is having a mental health crisis uh education that institutions are getting increased on in this area so yes but also no um yeah um and now just thinking about it I feel like maybe part of why Bri's connected us is because it seems like you talk a lot about like Redill stuff and like Intel stuff yeah and I guess I've talked a lot about it in like the short time I've been streaming and so that may be where like the overlap is as well besides him thinking that we're reasonably rational for women why do you think you've act like almost like stumbled into talking about manosphere related stuff honestly I think it's just kind of unavoidable it's like the invogue topic right now yeah and I think is it the invogue topic right now particularly exciting for people because there's just not that much evidence on it so everything you say is non falsifiable you can always find someone who has the same view you have um and so in that sense like conversations can keep going in circles out of item um and also I think like is this still like a big thing in other places on a really basic level maybe people just love talking about gender differences i mean I'm guilty of this too before I started streaming um so yeah what what do you think how did you niche probably because of my interest in young men right like I have a whole background of working with forensic young men um and so um with before I started streaming um so yeah with what what do you think well like how did you fall into that niche probably because of my interest in young men right like I have a whole background of working with forensic young men forensic young men that can't be what she meant can it for forensic um and so um they're just a group like angry angry men are just a group that I'm very comfortable empathizing with i think where's the empathy for Quean where's the empathy for Quean okay he's the angriest little man he's the angriest young man I know where's the empathy for him um whereas like other groups I don't know if I'm as capable of like managing empathy which is like a shame on me not on on that group obviously um I don't know i feel like before social media was big in the manosphere there was magazines where you'd write into the editor about your dating problems and before that there was you know probably women and men all talking about their dating issues i think I think wrestling through the norms of gendered relationships is like the unavoidable forever it's like the evergreen topic for all of history um because we'll most people are HET and even if they're not HET they have to engage with people of both the same and opposite gender and have to wrestle through what that looks like and how our society views it at the time so yeah that's what I think i think it'll always be forever green okay but like we can agree like women hit the wall at 30 right but like okay a man should lead a relationship right like the man should lead the relationship right but hold on hold on hold on like body count matters a lot right i need I need some like uh I need a sound effect for like a stool getting kicked out and like the rope tightening okay that's what I need right now like actually end me do you think that you are like red pills i guess cuz certainly it seems like you have sympathy or like empathy for where they're coming from yeah I do um the red pillars wouldn't own me um for example I tell my audience a lot that like we are not here to throw women under the bus that's not what we're interested in a lot of Red Pill content is very heavily reliant on blaming I would say women dominantly um I'm just not interested in that i think that's useless um so and I am also pretty opposed to a lot of like central like I don't know if you've heard of like hypergamy like the 8020 thing there's basically not super good evidence for that except for from dating apps um and I think there's a lot of reasons why dating app research probably shouldn't be applied to like generalized dating experiences um or like more importantly it should be generalized to feminine preference um so yeah there's a lot Wait what that I just I mean why I is the idea that it's like not good for long-term like it's not a representative of long-term strategies or something a red pill show it's usually on like you're just talking about how women want to then I think dating apps are a good source well fighting them that's what I'm there for is I kind of saw like clips of you on the little like Fresh and Fit podcast and stuff like that yep um who is that woman you just like didn't care about them calling a [ __ ] what's her relation to you that was crazy you said you didn't like women getting thrown under the bus but you just let that them call her a and you were like "Well I'm not going to comment." Yeah an internet figure has like changed your views like have you has it pushed you in either direction on the spectrum i think what it's forced me to do is it reminds me so much of working with addiction in addiction work there'd be these really deep moral Oh my gosh oh my sorry my husband is jumping outside my window scar the [ __ ] out of me that um in a way that I think most of us get to avoid because for addicts if they don't figure out like why they have self-pity or where their self-loathing comes from or they don't wrestle through their trauma they're going to relapse and it can kill them so they have to do the work that everyone has to do wait yes but it's life or death for them and I think with streaming it rehighlights that of like there's moral quandries that you have to wrestle through that I think if you weren't streaming in a social media space you could wrestle through you could also probably just ignore it and you'd mostly be fine um so I think that's Wait wait hold on can we attach this one if you weren't streaming and in the social media space you could wrestle through but you could also probably There are moral quandies you could wrestle through but you don't really have to because you're streaming mostly be fine you I wonder if she could name some instances of that happening um so I think that's how it's shaped me a lot um it's probably grown a bit of like a thicker skin uh sometimes I worry that also means like a harder edge i think a lot of people become very hardened and hateful um I feel like a lot of people I'll see like because I've been in it for three years now right which isn't actually that long but that's a lot of people's careers that I've seen blow up and fall apart and it's interesting to see people who I've been friends with or not friends with slowly trade parts of their moral system or their values for in small ways for clicks that 3 years later has led to major moral philosophical differences that we just didn't have before um no no way like talking about how it's so awesome if that firefighter got domed maybe so I think that's a lot of ways you can at all times in social media you can trade bits of yourself um for more clicks and you never get that part back um it's really hard to reclaim it once you've kind of gone over that threshold so um trying to think if I've done that probably in some small ways i try really hard not to because I don't I can't walk away from social media not being the type of person who can help young men at the end of it because then that would be the opposite of the whole point of it um by becoming a hardened hateful you know if I start blaming women it's kind of the opposite of what's going to be helpful to them sorry I'm going to close my door just the dog is breaking up wow what um do you have fears of that like when you think about streaming and stuff I'm sure for you right now it's just kind of like a fun hobby by and large it's kind of like a side project but despite it being a side project I think every time I check your Twitch in the like bit since we've been planning to talk you're almost always over 100 oftentimes in the 200s which is basically puts awesome in like the top 5% I think at least maybe the top 1% uh I don't know where the stats are right now but that's like for a hobby that's pretty crazy that's like that's a lot of people's dream right there um so how does that how has that been for you how do you describe that to your normie friends to be honest there's very few people in my life that know about it yeah um I mean my viewers know like because the way my apartment is set up like my roommate and I share a bathroom and so every time he's in the bathroom I would have to mute and like sit there and like wait for him to leave because I was so scared that he was listening in and would judge me he knows now but it took like maybe like a month of me streaming before I finally explained uh what was happening so I think in general I keep the streaming stuff really separate from my actual life um and then I think I don't know i mean I will say also maybe the dynamic that I have with my viewers is a little bit different where it's like mostly dudes who are there for you know their own whatever reasons and I think oftent times I just they're incredibly cripplingly lonely yes yes we know those kinds of guys yes contrarian views more so just so that there's good back and forth but I don't know that I'm like very very tightly um devoted to any views and so I think maybe that's what makes for good conversations because um I mean they accuse me of hating men but as I say like I'm an equal opportunity like hater like no one hates women more than I do you know but yeah I think that maybe is like uh can we get this girl on the stream can we get this person on the stream interesting like there's no I guess predictable leftist lean the only predictable lean is that maybe I hate men slightly more than I hate women gotcha okay interesting you're an equal opportunity hater um but because your audience is full of men you're mostly on them how does it how does it feel then being like knowing knowing that there's an element of like probably a lot of male viewers are there like listening to you but they also probably find you attractive you're a very attractive young woman um and so there's kind of that dual dynamic how does that feel for you um in processing that definitely weird i mean uh you know that's a very tactful way of doing the whole like you know they're only here cuz they like fantasize about you right have you thought about that how do you handle that exactly i think I try really hard to not make myself so like literally if I stand up to go pee I will put up a break screen just that no one sees me stand up m um but at the same time like there are limit like the opposite of wolf to how much you can really prevent yourself from being like people are going to go into whatever they want to and I can't really know or stop them why do you what's your aversion to being like what what feels negative to you about it um like I think I'm pretty tolerant of genuinely nice compliments i think I'm not okay if that is their only contribution you know and like sometimes it's just it's it's just a little weird you know and it's like I think I'm pretty lenient with chat roles but one of the rules is just be normal right like and I can't Very true Top Bronson this is why we I just don't want thisization okay I can't handle it that is why we stay a PNG forever okay listen i just don't need those comments i don't need that heat okay I don't need that you got to be normal like you just got to know um so yeah I mean but at the same time it's like I am aware that part of why streaming has you know like kind of come naturally for me is because of my looks and it's like I I know that you know like I take time to get ready before stream like I don't just like show up looking like um so it's it's hard it's like I would love to believe that you know people actually care about my thoughts and my content whatever um but I'm also not blind to the fact that some people are literally What do you think her content usually is do you think it's like reading papers reacting to videos i actually don't have a good idea of what her normal content is really just there to like sit maybe she'll put this up on the side or something yeah deal with it like I mean I take a very alternative approach i just I don't care about being that much uh just don't uh just don't thrust your taboos on me like if you're going to masturbate to pictures of me I don't want to hear about it um I can't stop you i don't really care um but I also feel very comfortable being by and large on the internet i don't think it takes away from me i think it only takes away from me if you like des subjectify me right so if and that's like thrusting your taboos on me if I'm no longer a person at all and you're just like saying weird to get off on now we have a problem i'm I'm going to block you um I don't dude I don't want to throw him under the bus but like why are you friends with Brow then i don't I don't know actually I get very little of that i'm sorry i don't want to throw him under the bus people are sending me like really inappropriate messages i pretty much just block them and it's and it's dealt with and so please don't talk about the clip okay the clip is not at all it's not It's not It's not I don't really mind if the audience really finds me attractive because I realize that if it was if all they found was me being attractive the reality is that they could go elsewhere there's more attractive girls on the internet to look at um if they're staying and intellectually wrestling with me it's probably because there's some level of some of them i mean I do have a decent like queer audience um of like gay men and stuff so some of them are staying regardless of whether they're attracted to me or not um I just kind of see it as like everyone men and women have different pros and cons in the space women have like a higher floor of competing right if you're a woman who's attractive and you turn on stream you're just going to get like a base 20 viewers typically on average this is the same cope like you're not going to crack the glass ceiling of like a thousand viewers really hard as a woman i just don't think this is true at all like I'm sorry i don't think I just don't think it's true i don't think it's true even remotely there's going to be a lot less people who respect us there's going to be you have to fight to be respected and as somebody who does politics and this is just like broadly not true at all like I feel like Lily Pichu was totally successful and I don't know maybe she'd say she doesn't have the respect like the voice thing was kind of weird but she's like so insanely talented that she just broke through and there's like no issue or at least that's how it seems to me bait uh not that I'm I failed this a lot recently i've been super super short-tempered especially but if I yell at somebody cuz I'm very mean right like very directly mean like I call people dumb asses and like call them names i will always get called condescending i will always be told I'm condescending because Okay okay it's because you're extremely condescending like all of the time you are actually extremely condescending it has nothing to do with the gender you are extremely condescending to nearly everybody all of the time as people have a hard time viewing a woman as like aggressive uh even though she's being aggressive get me the whistleblower clip right now i need the I need the whistleblower clip i need the whistleblower clip i need the whistleblower clip i need the whistleblower clip right now they're being I get called passive aggressive all the time and I'm like I'm only aggressive i'm aggressive aggressive all the time so I'm okay with it i I'm pretty comfortable with it i embrace it i see it as like a advantage that I'm conferred that I'm not really like afraid to use and I have certain strict lines about where that goes for me and what I'm comfortable with and nobody could pay me enough to go past those lines right so like I don't do Only Fans not really interested in making um I don't have a problem with other girls making i I won't do it i think it's I've got way too many issues with my body hold on hold on hold on i'm not misogynistic i know how I feel about women and I think I've I've proved that especially online because I I have always tried to be kind to other women even if they're not kind to me i've tried i've genuinely tried what is this time stamp and I think that I actually give women an easier time on the internet because there are some women that I've come across that I just want I want to lay into but women already Okay i want you talking about so when I say debate I mean trying to I need you to click on these things before you look at them okay click on them before you send them i need you to have watched them before you send them the word blah blah blah blah to mean what you're talking about so when I say debate I mean trying to convince each other and when I say blah blah blah blah I mean the blah blah blah blah is like a perfect example of like I guarantee you at least eight people to 8,000 people have told her blah blah blah blah is like supering condescending when you use that just use like X use like use like um I'm going to use you know banana as a standard term for this or something like don't use blah blah blah blah you're calling them like it comes off like you're calling them every every time everying time i don't know and this is something by the way this is when I still like liked Aerodite and defended on a lot of stuff that was my opinion blah blah blah blah is like unde indefensible all the time the whistleblower thing was indefensible and she tried to defend it i think it would be bad i'm really not interested in that um but I do like my Instagram is called like intellectual thirst trap do I post like photos of me in cosplay this is your issue uh no it's not this was something I had when I when I like had her on my stream when I was still relatively friendly with her this was a thing the blah blah blah blah thing is so stupid it's so condescending for no reason it is and she uses it a lot she used to use it a lot she might not use it anymore it's nothing to do with disliking her or being petty it is literally a complaint I had from the time when I actually liked her with like science articles underneath right so um I don't know i find it's okay to be self-aware and lean into it i just don't make it the only thing that I'm offering um that's how I engage but to be clear I don't think everyone has to engage like I do i guess how do you feel what is blah blah blah blahite when when basically they would disagree when she would disagree in a definition with somebody she wouldn't say here's the definition we're going to use she would say I'm going to call what you're defining this as as blah blah blah blah is what she would tell people right i'm going to call what you're talking about blah blah blah blah that's what I'm going to call it so when I say blah blah blah blah I mean we mean what you said uh hold on i'll find the video just wait hold on it'll be in the It'll be in the cherry video let me go find the cherry video it'll It'll be so easy to pull up give me two seconds where is this right we have to think about that and he probably well let's I think if people the military complex which both sides of the party would to some degree would have relationships with and would also want to be protecting to some degree according to your conspiracy theory so the idea based to lefties because there's like some weird political dunk the reason why people think it's cool is because we're talking about aliens and it's exciting that maybe after the invention of AI maybe this is the argument about what a whistleblower is aliens too did you listen did you listen to what he said he said it's making talking about whistleblowers he wasn't just saying aliens he was saying the idea of whistleblowers in general he's glad that that's being brought up rob why is Sherry really religious now i have no idea whistleblowers Arerodite keep it up so the whistleblowers go ahead Ardite i'm sorry i was just going to say there's a really big difference between some of the whistleblowers that lefties roll their eye at and in fairness I think lefties roll their eyes at too many whistleblowers on the right that they shouldn't have right like Epstein was real and we got to deal with that right we have to think about that and he probably Well let's whistleblowers left champions like Snowden there are there are right it just tends to be like a we tend to like whistleblowers that have lots of credentials behind their name which this guy does right he's very high up so he seems more reputable versus like if there's whistleblowers that happen to be like they live in their parents' basement and they're crazy and they've like been selling snake oil for 15 years and now they're talking about how like Hunter Biden's dick is actually personally responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine because Russia doesn't really want Don't worry trust me we're going to get there we're getting there we're getting there we're getting an issue right which one was that was that at the IRS or was that Zaggler you know the gay Democrat which one was that can you I think it was the the arms dealer that's on the run she's probably talking about the arms dealer that's on the run right now the business contact of the business contact of Hunter Biden that guy okay okay for the autism the Hunter Biden dick joke was a joke i don't actually think Hunter Biden's Oh the other subtle point here is she call she kept calling it autism over and over again right it's just this is the whole this is like a condescension clip it's very good nor do I think anyone saying that I don't think anyone is saying that don't explain your joke it makes it less funny it wasn't that funny in the first place try not to autistically fight with the joke afterwards no what I was fighting with was the straw manning of like well we like whistleblowers that are credentialed my question to you is which I just didn't say that you literally did you said whistleblowers that have heavy credentials like this alien guy we like him but people that live in their mom's basement and joke and I was asking you can you name me the whistleblower that's like that good on Rob no for being able to recall one minute back in the discussion let's rewind though and listen back just to make sure well we don't really like whistleblowers that have lots of credentials behind their name which this guy does right he's very high up so he seems cool versus like if there's whistleblowers that happen to be like they live in their parents' basement and they're crazy and they've like been selling snake oil for 15 years and now they're talking about how like Hunter Biden is actually personally responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine yeah I don't know why not so aridite said this it doesn't exact I didn't say that wrong sense the image of an unemployed whistleblower or a scam artist whistleblower unless the scammer is outing themselves surely not airite made a mistake it happens to the best of us there are technically a couple solid progressive political content creators on the panel so I'm sure one of them will help or bail her out you literally did you said whistleblowers that have heavy credentials like this alien guy we like him but people that live in their mom's basement and dick joke and I was asking you can you name me the whistleblower that's like that name me the whistleblower that you think is uncredential that's what I was getting to to be honest I'm not super in on all of your rightwing whistleblowers so I'm sure that among the people that you're going to list oh I am you could be the left wing whistleblower go ahead name me the one you're referring you're clearly referring to some whistleblowers are just uncredible i'm just asking you for an example give me an example probably talking about G Lof uh IRI is trying so hard to bail Arodite out and Rob's just like "Give me anything that makes me think you know anything about anything say a name that shows you've read any article on this and are speaking from any place of authority." Alex his his conditions for this are so open alex Jones is a much less credible whistleblower yes he is is he a whistleblower okay never mind i'm So Alex Jones is her primary example of a whistleblower really important was about to bail Natto Every Arid Day out but instead she names Alex Jones who is neither living in his parents' basement or a whistleblower hey he's a whistleblower in the fact that he is like most dominant for spreading conspiracy theories and talking about them in fact he was charged for spreading the conspiracy theory about Sandy Hook now I'm I'm sorry she is speaking as though Rob is totally wrong here that is what condescension is right people are going to say "Oh well it's just cuz she's a woman and she has like this tone." No she's speaking as if she's totally correct when she's 100% wrong that is condescension and I would say in general even though he was right about Epstein it's a little weird to think about Alex Jones being right about some of these things he's also been reallying wrong about a lot of things that he's been whistleblowing on like the Sandy Hook case that's got getting I don't think that's a whistleblower with the word whistleblower why would Alex Jones be a whistleblower he's just a conspiracy theorist what are you talking about okay what's the point specific what do you mean what is how is all you're like argue your point kantos is like holy she's being Krontos is like do not let keep speaking erdite is speak the only time Krontos has ever been like Eerite please speak your truth into the world queen Queen please continue by any means necessary please continue how is Alex Jones alex Jones a whistle blower go ahead okay here I'll give you Dude Kantos hates Aeronite so much and he's smart enough to identify here he's like "You know what i actually need you to continue speaking please please continue speaking." Alex Jones a whistle blower go ahead okay here I'll give you an example of a basement dwelling instead so we can like get off get in Wikipedia here we go the Discord leaker in the Air Force was literally a basement dweller just some random Okay cool but how is Alex Jones a whistleblower okay alex Jones claimed tons of his info came from inside sources so okay so that would came from whistleblowers maybe that doesn't make him a whistleblower that's not a whistleblower that just makes a conspiracy theorist that means he asserted something without evidence it's cool like why would according to him according to him his sources that's He's trying to pretend he's not he's like "Get me the [ __ ] out get me the How do I save this how do I save this?" Came from inside the government i'm sorry why would you take Alex Jones at his word why okay first of all Aaron keep up i'm not taking Meta's word so by the way I I'm just so glad that this guy was like "Oh you just hate her so much she's not really condescending with blah blah blah." Yeah keep up re keep up this is by the way I think a tactic that uh both her and Nick do use when they're losing an argument is they will they'll redouble down on being confident and just say like keep up i don't know if you're keeping up with this can you keep up with me hello i just need you to keep up with the conversation you're not really keeping up with the conversation a whistleblower in the fact that he's making up conspiracy theories and he tries to portray No exactly he's making up conspiracy theories he doesn't You don't need to call him a whistleblower you can just get rid of that part okay we're doing word games do you agree that Alex Jones is a credible source of information from inside the government aaron do you think that Alex Jones is a No nobody's claiming that source no do you think that he has popularized lots of inside source conspiracies from within the government on his show i'm going to answer yes all these questions so we'll make him a whistleblower what has he blown the whistle on right what you're describing eroded a reporter right reporters listen to whistleblowers and then say someone from inside the government that might be a whistleblower told me I'm going to talk I remember I was watching this live okay and I was literally adding Aaron in DGG chat and I'm like Glenn Greenwald is is like the reporter Edward Snowden is the whistleblower I think I gave her the example she sure I'm going to broaden it to the fact that you know what lifties in general don't listen to anyone who plop popularizes ideas that spread all over so just to be clear a person who informs on an organization engaged in illicit activity is technically a whistleblower that would be like saying Glenn Greenwald is a whistleblower because he reported on Edward Snowden edward Snowden's a whistleblower edward Snowden is a whistleblower exactly but hold on hold on hold on you guys I don't know how you guys are all missing the critical you guys are all reallying up right now how are you all missing the most it's like literally everybody is on the same page i is like speechless he like cannot get in now he's like I had this kind of I had this nipped in the bud for you right so a whistle by the way this is if you ever want to know what sweeping actually is okay this was the biggest sweeper is usually somebody that is part of the organization that they're informing on that's what a whistleblower is so for instance Alex Jones is connected to people so since everybody here is in agreement that Erdite's wrong okay you're all missing something right that are ostensibly whistleblowers where they don't exist i'm not sure but like a whistleblower is a person that comes from an organization and then they report about that organization essentially that's a whistleblower not only is Alex Jones not a whistleblower he also isn't who anyone should credit for breaking the sex trafficking story surrounding Jeffrey Epstein according to Reddit historians despite Alex Jones's claims of discussing Epstein since 2008 the furthest back he can be cited mentioning Epstein was January 2nd 2015 where Jones misspoke from court records there are several investigative journalists here alex Jones even if he was reporting on information given to him from government employees would still not be regarded as a whistleblower he would be someone reporting on information released regardless of whether he was reporting there is no broader definition Aridite can defer to in order to save face and avoid admitting she doesn't know what she is talking about everyone on the panel except for not so arroite understands this yeah for some reason Destiny implies all of the panel is missing the part where a whistleblower is somewhat within the organization they are informing on it's just Aerodite Steven but maybe if it comes gently from you without singling her out she'll be more receptive to it no no well no she won't she won't she's correct she's decided she's correct and now she's going to talk down to everybody else who's trying to help i see what we're doing there are legal protections for that legal definition of if you're in the FBI and blow the whist nonetheless let me white knight and save a go you don't need to actually you don't need to i'm going to use the word I'm going to use the word Hold on hold on i'm going to bypass the autism i'm going to use the word blah blah blah blah to reference again there it is there it is once again if you wondered why we were watching this we were watching it to get to the point that I'm going to use the word blah blah blah blah for you cards okay so when I tell you that this is condescending we're going to bypass the autism because you guys are failing to understand what's actually going on here so we're going to use the word blah blah blah blah to mean actually whistleblower people who popularize ideas that you don't have to do that you just don't have to call a whistleblower i don't care i don't care about your autism take care i'm going to use the word blah blah blah just on it just I don't care about your autism that's You don't have to do that you just don't have to call a whistleblower you just throw a fork utensils down no I have a glass sitting on my desk so if I hit it Oh no that does oh sorry it was It was uh Myron myin smashing whoops ideas that's You don't have to do that you just don't have to call Alex a whistleblower i don't care i don't care about yourism take I'm going to use the word blah blah blah blah just concede on it just concede on that you're not a whistleblower i literally am i don't care you lost that argument no big deal i don't I can't tell if I was manipulated into this by the guy who was like "Uh I think you're just being a little unreasonable right now i think you're just being petty calling erodite condescending i think you're just being petty about blah blah blah blah and it's like no you just don't know what you're talking about now I've watched theite content now I've actually watched it and I can comment and now my comments are not favorable okay before I hadn't watched it and I was like well she doesn't seem so bad she seems like she kind of knows what she's talking about sometimes now I've watched okay and now I see deal it's nothing big in the grand scheme of things hold on yes hold on okay keep digging the hole i'm cool with it hold on can we go back to the actual point that we were trying to do thank you for admitting that after 5 minutes wasting our time it's starting to seem like Okay now now Rob is being condescending back but it's funny sorry debate isn't really the cause of rigidity for a not so aridite because there were several moments at which she could have backed off either by letting I'm really important respond to Rob initially after he had mentioned several times that he knew of all of the whistleblowers she could have allowed Straight Raid to correct her understanding that they are both progressive i love Anacey for these moments though it what makes her content entertaining uh that's actually my opinion as well is that this is why she was funny is because she would like double down on being wrong repeatedly and it looks super funny it was just Yes i was like "Yeah she should be debating people she should be in debates all the time cuz it's supering funny to watch." That's that's my opinion as well if being corrected by Rob is less palatable or she could have taken Destiny's helping hand at his introduction to declare everyone to be wrong natto Areridai was not looking for a way out despite everyone on the panel trying to help or trying to correct her she instead decided to talk down to everyone in a child's voice declaring blah blah blah blah to be the resolution to the conflict of what is a whistleblower she reluctantly conceds when no one on the panel lets up but unfortunately as of a few weeks ago on Jtock's panel not so Oh that's me very very smugly doubles i was trying to build bridges this is back when I was doing the bridge building thing and I was like well you know why don't you come on stream we could have a little talk i won't point out that you're like just wrong here i think so when I'm talking to her I remember if I remember correctly I was like you know what let's just agree let's just move on let's just move on i think that's what I was saying insisting she was correct and even get NYSE as a regular oh we used to have that we don't have that anymore i don't know if that's ever coming back okay would love to see it but it's unlikely wishing she'd not conceded recalling some things I've thought in the past it wasn't that I thought you were better than people but some Did I sound like Do I sound like this now i feel like I do more of a radio announcer voice now this is more just my standard voice and now I'm doing the radio announcer thing a lot more a lot a whole lot more sometimes I lean into it a little bit but most of the time you were sick as [ __ ] no that was the Tom Foolery one i don't think that was this one sometimes when I'd criticize you like one of the things that really frustrated me sometimes when I'd watch you is you would be wrong about something and you wouldn't move past it like in a debate and the one that comes to mind is the kicker keep with the whistleblower comment where Hey but I was right holy I looked it up that's so weird you sound so different i know i was a less confident streamer back then okay i didn't know what I had going on i didn't know that I was awesome at this all right now I know I'm awesome your voice had a lower cadence here yeah i think I Listen I just speak with more emotion okay i was literallying right i'm so mad holy yeah she literally like months later came on my stream and was like I was actually um I was actually right the whole time so what was the argument again i cuz I I uh we don't have to fight about this is going to derail a long time i can't remember all the details let me leave let me leave i don't want to maybe Alex Jones i know Alex Jones came up i don't know if he was the start of it uh yeah I think you were saying that Alex Jones was a whistleblower yeah um and then everyone got like really intense about like what a whistleblower is um but then I looked up the definition after like with my chat and I was like "Oh wait it doesn't have to just be an employee like Ed Edward Snowden is a whistleblower um like it can be an internal but it Ed Edward Snowden was an employee of the NSA and he blew the whistle on the NSA for spying on Americans uh can also be like Wikileaks people are often also considered whistleblowers even though they're not like an internal worker i don't know correct uh you do not know that is literally the only correct thing you've said a whistleblower is a person who exposes misconduct occurring within their organization wikileaks is not a person so it I don't think it has to be within their organization necessarily i like I believe that but they have to be somebody who like witnesses it you have to be the person who is the first originator of this information and that is just never the case for Alex Jones he doesn't work in any of these industries right you can argue maybe he's the whistleblower on Bohemian Grove when he went and watched their thing and recorded it but you would have to be like the first person blowing the whistle on this behavior like you could be a health inspector who sees like some factory that like packages crackers and they actually something up and you could be the whistleblower i think that's maybe not a good example cuz it's your job you could be like somebody passing through who's a part of a different company like and you could blow the whistle on someone i think why crackers hard to say not a whistleblower the legal protections sought out by Wikileaks are similar to the productions online publishers like Instagram face in any case I think Oh look animated PNG Avatar goal donations okay cool listen good times old times notice a YouTube chat there that was pretty cool when we had one of those no longer pretty sure whistleblower by definition is inside the orc uh I wouldn't be shocked you're not blowing the whistle if you're not on the team you're just reporting uh that's probably true actually whistleblowing yeah I can see it having to be internal so anyway I just don't like the the argument oh we're not uh we're not I will never be said that I am being petty for calling that condescending the blah blah blah blah thing okay it's just condescending maybe inadvertently being pushed in the opposite direction then because I feel like on some of these little podcasts you almost kind of became like the female exception right the one female who's actually rational and like gets it compared to like the other like OF girls that they bring on just to like laugh and fit on i guess like how do you wrestle with like being utilize that a pick me how do you how do you wrestle with being a pickme is what you're trying to say she's calling everybody a pick me openly let's go caddyy Asian girl still I guess like like being able to stand up for what you actually believe in i don't mind being a token i essentially I don't really mind being a token because if I if I am a token but it results in 30 extra men regularly tuning into my stream and moderating their positions on dating and being way less misogynistic then it's just a win for me the reality is that like a lot of the OF girls they bring okay base on a lot of them aren't the nicest people a lot of them are really bigles cuz women can like I said you're an equal hater right there's a lot of out there men and women alike um you know I've been on whatever and been like gobsmacked by some of the things that these women are like basically conning men right I'm like that's bad like I don't mind if you're sex worker but like don't lie to people that's that's [ __ ] up um and they're there participating in essentially hate in exchange for money and so it's like I'm just there for a different purpose I understand that I am going to be tokenized it's it's stream it's a performance um I'm just going to do my best to try to pull some of their audience that's more reasonable away to maybe listen to me and I think that that's all I can do and not throw like normal women under the bus for it right i like try to like when I'm on their shows I'll be like "You guys realize like this is not like a normal sample of women right this is obviously not a normal sample." You realize these are mostly like just dumbers right do you realize that do you realize these are mostly just dumb or women listen huh listen kind of kind of cooking a little bit all right fence that's crazy right obviously uhhuh how did you get into like the debating scene did you have a background in it or were you just like "Yeah like I like arguing." Well you see my husband was a very big Destiny fan suggested I go on his street i think this is fine um my husband was uh my husband was a conservative Destiny viewer so he watched Destiny and he was conservative and so I had started debating a little bit on Tik Tok cuz I started on TikTok wow um because I was fighting with a bunch of autism cool because I come from an FASD lab where we're actively fighting with autism advocates we're being like this is a strength and we're like FASD is a brain injury like I am totally fine seeing them as a person they're wonderful but oh she's something of a I am not history of dealing with brain injuries got it when I say strength what they mean is they don't want us to look at FASD as a disorder or as a brain injury they think that that's harmful language and I'm just like this is just accurate language like I'm literally being dishonest to my clients if we're not engaging with this as like this is this is a brain injury because that's what FSD is um so I started fighting with those people because they didn't like my takes on like FASD and I just was doing like mental health education and they didn't like it um and I've always been a disagreeable woman so I think it was a very natural direction that I got pulled into um always been political and disagreeable so yeah how do you think I guess your debating style has changed after like getting more comfortable with the scene like are there tactics that uh maybe it's more I I hope it's I'm more open to being that you are different ways in which you view those conversations yeah so I think I've sharpened my skill at understanding fallacies and analogies like when a when I'm presented with like a M and Bailey argument I better know how to how to disentangle it and engage with it and kind of take it apart um really bad at analogies what's your favorite what's your favorite tactic for that for disassembling a Mottton Bailey argument i like I just couldn't get analogies for some reason i get analogies now and I can outline to people like this is analogous or disanalogous for X reasons but I also think my patience has decreased a lot which is bad i think I've gotten worse at my like part of what made me popular when I first came into the scene is because I just come from addictions counseling like no one could rattle me ever i was just like calm as a cucumber um where's the long really is that why she hates Mr girl because Mr girl rattled her i've been out of being in a professional space i feel like I'm more me and so my feelings are a little bit more on my sleeve like when I'm frustrated in a professional setting I'm going to take a deep breath and let go um whereas on stream I'm just like increasingly like I'm just mad uh which I think is bad i think that's a negative for me are you interested in debating eric made her cry i forgot about that yeah so I I mean I did debate competitively in high school and college oh [ __ ] yeah so I mean that's also why I like was really like I mean part of it was just like scoping out like what you do but also part of it was legitimately I just love debates in general um and I'm kind of sad that I missed like the peak debate blood sport era of social media you haven't actually oh this girl likes debate oh maybe we're going to have some debates no the problem is that it's we're just in the process of going mainstream like Piers Morgan is highlighting debate um so I don't think you've missed it i think there's a pretty Well we'll see we'll see it could could be happening i I could be wrong i think there's a pretty almost certainly not going to happen but could be happening if I'm a misogynist though listen doesn't she isn't she looking to debate misogynists large infusion that's about to happen again cuz I know a lot of really big content creators are starting to look at Twitch pool and go like oh there's like an entire talent pool here that's like completely untouched um and the Twitch pool space is actually like got some really talented debaters like they only get like 20 viewers and they're incredible debaters like they could be in like on Piers Morgan and Is there somebody other than Lactoid she's talking about i feel like Lactoid's the only person I know i feel like I I feel like Lactoid's the person I go like "Oh he's pretty good at debate." But other than that like Rob Nor has kind of taken off on his own but like I think I I would want to know if there's somebody who's as good or better than Lactoid who's in Twitch poll handle themselves better than most of the people on Tw so what do you think about debate um I mean I think it's generally good i think people who shy away from it are pissed yeah um I mean I don't know if I have any like particularly interesting thoughts on it maybe I just think that something that's interesting to me is how debating on the internet requires a very different set of skills and I think that the like mistakes that people make in I guess like college debate are different than the the mistakes that happen in online debates um I mean example of this maybe is like I think one year so um I'm friends with some of the I was friends with some of the Yale debaters and one year they had the president of the Yale debate association go on the news and essentially say what he thought about the presidential debate and you could just tell he was like I have nothing positive to say you know like I truly like this was right this was ass like this was they were bad on the subjects but they were just good on the rhetoric um and I think maybe it's interesting how presentation and framing is much more important in the internet and also the fact that there's just no format it's much more important everywhere except in rigorous like uh like moderated debate the fact of the matter doesn't matter anywhere all right it's literally just all rhetoric and framing it's kind of jockeying for the opportunity to speak without seeming like you're overpowering the other person i think that is also very dynamic m yeah so then when you think about debate because I think one one tension that you probably have already alluded to is an area that people probably love to hear your thoughts on and debate in would be science and medical science specifically related right especially when it's popping off so a very classic one would be gender sports which I think is a vastly oh come on expertise you're speaking from like a lay person who scientifically literate not from they want to um maybe one thing that makes me feel better about it is just that I may be underqualified but I don't know that I'm more underqualified than other people on the internet who are going to talk about it qualified typically right slightly more yeah I would say this is looking scope conversation in academia is really fair and what get applied to social media is really bad because then you have people who are the most scientifically literate not being willing to weigh in on most topics and what instead happens is this has to be where they get basically saying what would be most ethical is for the most scientifically illiterate people to weigh in instead because that's who will um which I think is really dangerous um I think what has to actually happen is a disentangling for society to realize that a doctor is a scientifically literate person who is not necessarily an expert on all things and should never be treated that way um and that there shouldn't be a responsibility other than the doctor being like "Look this is where I'm lay i'm not an expert on this topic but I am scientifically literate." Um dude you want to you guys are talking about how she'll be like out of med school and like doing social media stuff dude have you seen the Is it Sarah it's Sarah something what the [ __ ] is this woman's name on on Twitter she just tweets all day she's got like 100,000 followers already the white the not the white Yeah the white nationalist lady the the nationalist girl from um Oh who was it it was Sam Cedar's thing right she's got like a trillion followers already sarah Stark this person she's got like almost 100,000 followers she just like tweets all day it's like all she does is just tweet all day i feel like this person's like stood up by some other group or something like she's she's explicitly like getting coached on everything i don't think this is a real person i actually don't i'm sorry i don't think it's a real person i don't think they exist this might be but she's Canadian right yes she's a conservative who speaks for most of America so naturally she's Canadian what what are you asking of course she is that person's everywhere they must be making a ton of money yeah i really want to push for more academics being willing to talk about things and not get spanked with so argument from academics they're not debating other they're talking to people who genuinely don't understand what a correlation is like they don't even understand correlation so you're not an expert in science but you are highly scientifically literate you can explain things like well this is a correlation this is why this correlation shouldn't be taken in the positive way that you're using it right now you think Aerodite would ever say that to Aya hey this correlation you're using shouldn't be taken the positive way shouldn't be understood in the positive way you're using it you think she'd ever extend that bit of logic to Aya or That's my push back on you yeah I mean I agree that I back and forth on this so I did not really watch very many big streamers before I started streaming it actually came after because Oh I mean I guess that's partially true so I I think only knew about Hassan because I don't know like people were talking about him on my TikTok feed and then that's how I like went down the rabbit hole of like other political streamers okay um and I think something I say that my viewers really don't like is that I believe in the value of formal training and it doesn't sit right with me that people without formal training have become so influential like they have outsized power yep um oh what the [ __ ] just happened and I was like great oh okay lucky lucky lucky jesus Christ this conversation going on for a long time professional space I feel like I'm more me and so my feelings are a little more on my sleeve like when I'm frustrated in a professional setting I'm going to take a deep breath and let go um that's my push back on you yeah like people I'm sure Dr k changed thousands of lives with his Oh we're not even there yet are we we can push them in the opposite direction because I feel like on some of these little podcasts you almost kind of became like their on the internet requires a very different set of skills and I think that'd be like mistake to say you know like I truly like this was [ __ ] right um I'm friends with some of that I was friends with some of the yellow bears and wonder they have the president of getting okay hold on we're trying to find where we were i don't know what happened there that I also know that you know people just ignore them if they want to um maybe one that makes me feel better about it is just that I may be underqualified but I don't know them okay not more like I believe in the value of formal training and it doesn't that people without formal training have become so influential like they have outsized power yep um by virtue of like their liability or their charisma and their will their willingness most academics can't do it you can't because you'll lose your residency right and once you have a a medical license your hospital probably won't want the liability you about to mention Hassan's outside power maybe yeah yeah I know it's just like strange what hold on i It's crazy that Ardite's like totally on this page because like Yes i think Hassan would be more trained on this than Destiny no doesn't Hassan have what's his degree in essie has no degree hassan's got what a degree in polyai no i thought it was Polyai it almost sometimes makes me feel like I don't know that the discourse is taking us anywhere maybe we're just engaging it to feel good about the fact that we're engaging it and we're trying our best pat like me on I guess like anyone who does it anyone who watches it like I wonder sometimes we are patting ourselves on the back for like wrestling with like the important intellectual issues of our time and kind of being satisfied with that you know i mean so I was going to ask have you ever had any of your views genuinely changed after debate yeah lots what I guess what are some of the big ones is it maybe on the definition of whistleblower let's say come on get changed it's always in small little ways sort of like update and flesh out my position on something what's a big one recently i'm trying to think i've only had a couple of like formal debates recently um u I mean the problem is I debate in my Discord a lot as well so I think like areas where I've had my position updated has been a little bit more private recently just because it's been on like Discord or like debating with my friends or my husband um uh nobody likes debating in my Discord oh uh like two days ago I was debating with my husband on like creator growth and opportunities and like riding waves up and um like kind of like lamenting about how it feels like the way that you get a lot of vertical growth like so like subscriber numbers is kind of like luck and waves and kind of being like I for sure missed the wave like I I didn't want to take content creation super seriously i didn't want to just like I was getting in a lot of trouble somebody wasing me already uh my college was getting my former college was getting contacted um I was super worried about my lensure getting contacted wait was that bad though hold on i was What should have happened to that guy so I just kind of like backed off and as a result I think I did unironically miss like the red pill wave up where I think I would have been a very popular kind of red pill manosphere debater who's pretty It sounded like she was saying that was like uh something that was stressful for her anti anti- red pill in a lot of ways um and he challenged me with basically talking certainly seemed like actually now that I'm really thinking about it it certainly seemed like a lot of people around Destiny I think Pisco specifically had a really big issue with what President Sunday did there no huh wow hopefully we'll hear one of them speak up about it at some point in the future we'll see about horizontal growth um how like a lot of creators will go up pisco did think it was important to come on my stream and defend Arerodite with regards to Queen and President Sunday about a year ago right we'll see if he feels like it's still important to weigh in i don't think so i don't think it will be base and therefore they also topple very quickly um and so kind of changed my perspective on when you're doing content growth you want to ride waves up but once that wave up ends or is pausing for you really work on horizontal growth so growing your community growing other mediums of income growing your moderator community uh your moderator community can be really important for setting the culture and community of your discord if you're using a discord or your YouTube chat even and building a donation community as well if you're going to be crowdsourced um building out your network of other content creators like that's all of the horizontal growth that has to happen as well um so I guess that's not like the most life-changing perspective change uh but it was just like two days ago if you want like the most life-changing perspective change I've had from a debate um I just have to think about it i'm sure there's something though yeah i mean I guess I'm just curious one of the big critiques is that when you enter into a debate and like you genuinely are trying your best to advocate for your position sometimes you get like lost in the sauce right you start chasing the W so hard that you defend stuff that I mean you know in like a less abrasive setting you wouldn't necessarily defend wow oh oh okay maybe without any like political viewpoints you know like gender war viewpoints legitimately changed by like the little like red pill men arguing with you actually it's almost an opposite i when I started in the space I was doggedly not a feminist i wouldn't take the label i was really grossed out with the way that feminists manage themselves and about a year in a rad fem community member um I won't even say we're friends cuz we we're like oil and water we just fight every time we have to talk about fairy queen by the way who absolutely I feel like she Oh wait maybe she's not talking about fairy queen i thought she was talking about fairy queen lav you think lav could be lav no it could be lav but um she convinced me that because I do so the reason part of why I'm frustrated with femininity feminism is that I don't think that it fights for femininity i think it fights for women to get into spaces of masculinity which I think is fine i just think it's literally not serving like 80% of Ila is the name she dropped about this story recently i don't know who the that is and one of my big woman frustrations about like what I would call like cultural patriarchy is that people don't respect feminine traits uh and I'm putting feminine because I think like most of these terms are some of them are biologically uh downstream most of the ideas of what's feminine and masculine though is going to be culturally asserted right skirts are for women I've met who's a really big person online like famous that off camera is even better somehow um yeah and indomitable and want to treat it as just like nice we actually respect value and truly um treat feminine traits as something respect worthy in the way that we treat masculine feminists that none of the feminists will own uh so that was like a major major shift i took the label feminist back on um and and in most red pill shows I'm very she's really earned it i feel like I feel like she's really earned a feminist and then I typically like I and then I immediately get the well you're not like any other feminist but I think Dr k had a really good argument actually we were talking with Dr do you know Dr k vaguely yeah i mean people mentioned him i've like maybe watched one video he's um as somebody who's like loved him for I've been told that this is where it starts to get good okay i realize we've been watching we just been enjoying it for a little bit this is where it starts to get good apparently long time i think he's got a good heart um and who's met him offline he's one of the few people that I've met who's a really big person online like famous that off camera is even better somehow um yeah Al is such an incredible person like first name basis let's go through and through doesn't mean he has enough errors and he hasn't messed up oh my gosh he's such a good person and he he said that basically if you can take an audience of 4K and take them from the view that not a single woman is logical to there is at least at one one woman who is logical that's actually a huge difference because you're completely breaking a fundamental rule in their mind and if you can break that rule everything else can come with it right it's like okay well maybe there's two logical women oh well there's actually even know this [ __ ] what the [ __ ] is she talking about right now i I actually have no idea what she's talking about pretty logical woman right as soon as there's one there's space for there to be a hundred more so I'm happy to be the one just kidding they do actually know each other they do to insist there are more they're just not online typically mhm now yeah i don't know if you've ever considered this but uh if you could convince you know at least one person that it's okay for Destiny to you know non-conensually record his friends then that's breaking like a fundamental belief of most people in the feminist space and that's a powerful thing that is a very powerful thing Kyla and I want you to focus on that for us okay please please that makes sense yeah um man I I wish you knew more about Dr k i want to ask you about him i mean so I I only know the story because people have explained it to me in chat and I only know about I guess like the big stuff like the streamer who you know took his own life um Oh the wreckful story i like that one well I don't like the outcome but I talked a little bit in my streams where I mean I only watched a snippet but I did feel like you know I mean you can say that something's not therapy but then you know like if it walks like a talks like you know like is it that crazy that people think it's I think I feel uncomfortable about it like I can believe that the intentions were pure and at the same time I can also see that the outcome nerdite does not like that hold on hold on wait so you're saying that Dr k can't even just be friends with somebody that's just automatically therapy excuse me not great you know yep um here's one of the tricky things that I think people don't give a lot of credit for in the Reckful situation is um cuz Steven was really close to Reckful um it was like one of his closer friends before he he passed away and Steven has made this argument a few times it's not actually obvious that a lock's relationship with him didn't just postpone his that like Reckful had been attempting regularly often right he had a very severe mental illness he was really struggling and um I think Alo did make missteps with Reckful i don't like people blaming him ever uh for what happened to Reckful which I don't think you're doing um but I think I really dislike this idea that somebody is basic i at all times with Rquool acted in a totally totally ethical way all right i didn't do anything wrong it's just cra this this Max Carson guy this guy is out of his mind doing almost exclusively good she's pronouncing his name wrong wait how do you pronounce it a lock a lock alec is she saying Alec and it's a lock is that the difference make an error and now they're ontologically bad like it's almost you're speaking without the voice oh I didn't do the voice oh my bad it's like we treat people who are aiming well as more fallen than bad people who do voice right cuz there are people for example who here I need to hear the crux of her argument arguably bad like it's almost it's like we treat people who are aiming well as more fallen than bad people who do mess ups right cuz there are people for example who bring on mentally ill people so I think the issue here for most people with regards to erodite is that like there won't necessarily be evidence of the person trying to do well in some cas like I it seems incredibly what would you call it like um subjective where she decides to do this right where it's like they're trying to be better like this was the argument she made for Destiny is like he he did this in the past it's a long time ago and he's trying to be better and he knows he [ __ ] up right but she gave him to she gave that to him before it was actually clear if that was his position or if that was true so I actually happen to think she's correct in the Dr k case but it's not through like actually you know coming to it from an objective place with some kind of standard in mind at all it's just like it happens to be correct or at least that's my for content unironically all the time and nobody seems to really care that much but it's because they're like ah well the streamer is just kind of a piece of and it's like okay so Dr k is now evil because he's made errors but people who like are actively making content on a mentally ill that make them worse are are fine like is this really how we're scaling people i don't know i don't know if that's super fair i also think like the APA came out and weighed in on the the Reckful situation which a lot of people patients attempting to active actively improve versus those who aren't those who aren't who you give them that same benefit of the doubt bad okay well I don't know if you've read any correction that he has on his like name now no I haven't so a lot of people I'd be curious what you think of it um when I read through it um I've seen so when I was doing like my undergrad and my like master's like graduate diploma which is not a full masters that's a Hey that doesn't apply to me [ __ ] you that doesn't apply to me at all get out of here with that content creators making i don't do that i don't do that year and a half of graduate school basically I'm Don't Don't read anything into my defensiveness at that comment okay doesn't mean anything we went through a number of these and the language on it is pretty mild they don't require him to take down any content they don't require him to change any of his policy they don't require him to stop doing these like therapy not therapy arguments all they say is he uh overstepped a little bit with Reckful um and they like kind of analyze I need to remember but basically they kind of say like what he did with Reckful specifically was a bit of an overstep specifically in the moment which is what I've been saying from the beginning where he promised to be Reckful's friend for 2 years and then also walked it back so they were like "Probably shouldn't have promised to be his friend for 2 years right especially shouldn't promise to be somebody's friend for two years if you're going to walk it back right that's that's not cool." Obvious okay that's my position and I'm never changing it you just have to be a completeing monster to ever do that um but by and large that's it they didn't say anything about the other content they didn't say his content was problematic and so I think there's this issue in that like therap like what is therapy well what's therapy for a psychiatrist doesn't look like anything that he's doing because he's not asking them about their meds he's not prescribing them he's not updating those things but obviously that's not what people care about what they're saying is it looks like therapy it acts like therapy it smells like therapy and I think the issue is that it's Well hold on what uh xxxtent trash man thank you for the two months i would say here I don't know that like psychotherapy doesn't require prescribing drugs right you're not you're not giving him meds but that's like not there are tons of therapists who don't who don't even have a license to prescribe medication it's therapeutic in a whole bunch of ways but there's this space where if if both parties are agreeing to be in this public space and all these sorts of things we'll make it clear that it's not therapy because you're not regularly seeing them you're not doing modules um but a therap conversation is really wonderful and helpful and if it both parties are consenting for it to be public that's often times some of the most healing well didn't you just read it you literally just said autic conversation i mean uh uh what did I miss here therapy because you're not regularly seeing them you're not doing there's this space where if if both parties are agreeing to be in this public space and all these sorts of things we'll make it clear that it's not therapy because you're not regularly seeing them you're not doing modules um but a conversation is really wonderful and helpful and if it both parties are consenting for it to be public that's often times some of the most healing content people will consume like people I'm sure Dr k changed thousands of lives with his interviews um I'm I'm sure of it um yeah Reckful had thousands of fans they don't get to watch anymore he did change thousands of lives and so I don't like the conflation of saying that because it's in nature that he's therefore being practicing i don't I personally don't believe he caused Reckful to kill himself um that's that's a joke okay um especially when the APA has by and large backed him up they're still working with him in fact they've got a whole new project with him um they essentially have a slap on the wrist about his Reckful stuff like it is it is functionally a slap on the wrist um and I think I think I is it a functionally a slap on the wrist that he has to inform all of his patients that he has this mark on his record i don't think so i feel like that's a what's happening in the mental health crisis with psychology in general is we don't know the answer um because therapy is not medicine even when we've tried to treat it like it is it's just not um there isn't a biioarker for I'm This is what I was talking about before where this girl seems to disagree with um basically medical professionals sort of adding their own flare onto things and that they don't get followed after they graduate after they get certified they don't really get followed to make sure they're not adding some things that like go beyond what they've learned they don't continue their formal training so they'll get formal training they will go and they will extend themselves out past their formal training that is the that is this Asian girl's problem so I can see why she would have a problem with this and why she would kind of get into it after a while and miserable because my life sucks and my parents suck and I have no friends and I feel hopeless and purposeless there'sn't like a medical marker for this and so I think what's happening in like the APA is that there's a lot of people trying a whole bunch of stuff to see if it helps and if it helps a lot of people really quickly we tend to like it broadly and then we try to build ethics to support that thing which I think is I don't want to say good I think it's messy but I think it is triageoriented which I in the in the state of the mental health crisis that we have right now i don't know what else we I don't know what else we do because we don't have enough practitioners um to meet the need i don't know if it works i don't know if it's good he says it's good you know I I just don't know like he's trying and that's really the most important thing is that he's trying yeah I know it's a very Is it Is it the most important thing satisfying answer no no i mean I think that's fair i was about to say something insane but I'll keep to myself no no no okay uh Mangallay was trying okay he was trying on it i mean first of all I think the fact that he is an actual medical doctor does mean that he probably should be held to a higher standard simply because he has the training you know to keep himself there and that's why you know like I mean maybe I think he got outsized blowback immediately after the situation but I don't know if I'm totally convinced that you know at least he's better than the alternative because we're not comparing him to the alternative were comparing him to you know like the correct way to practice medicine um and then second of all I think I take issue with the idea that if it's meant to have a therapy he's doing so much better than all of the other mental health content creators doesn't that mean he's okay no he's a doctor and he has to uphold medical standards isn't that just really unfair when not enough people are doing this kind of content and healing people in this kind of way no he literally has a code of ethics that he should abide by oh or healing impact it seems strange that it's also done publicly i mean both parties can consent but sometimes as the medical provider you do have to make a decision about whether or not it's in the patient's best interest even if they think it is um and that's why I wonder if like it almost hurt his intent to bring him on talk about these personal issues oh very interesting thing i think if uh if Kylo is really Kylo is really being honest with herself here she would know that it's very difficult to grapple with the financial incentive of doing content with somebody massive like Reckful and then keeping within ethical boundaries and how I'm going to go ahead and and treat that person while keeping them safe in a public setting okay that's the really big problem here and I think Kyla really needs to grapple with that and engage with that how do you separate the financial incentive from keeping a friend safe i maybe she just hasn't grappled with that problem elsewhere in her life i'd really love to hear uh hear her out okay wow but also at the same time parade him out to a bunch of viewers i mean you can make the argument that there are depressed people who watch the stream and got some value out of it you can like always utilize True Tilla but like I I feel like because he had a utilistilla is that a thing like he had aic obligation to Reckful by agreeing to kind of take him on and discuss it with him that obligation should have trumped the positive impact from Reckful's example um and then I guess lastly I feel like uh so I would assume that your argument here would be like why does it have to be live streamed why couldn't it have been recorded and then released after was it live live streamed i think that could be you could argue maybe that's a little dangerous right for it to be like live live streamed that you could record it you could have it on a delay you could like do anything and then if you like kind of misstepped you could handle that privately instead of having the whole thing play out publicly it's this whole like public pantomime that also like all the all of the viewers are interacting with and commenting on that's like probably some argument you could make there there is probably some argument the stuff that we talk about it's it's double-edged because I mean I can buy that you know he's not as blamew worthy as some people would make him out to be but ultimately doesn't change the fact that he's still culpable for the harms that resulted and that's why like I also don't know if I'm comfortable with like the APA the fact that the APA backed him like using that as a measurement for whether or not what he did was uh First of all it was not the APA it was in fact the Massachusetts Medical Board that backed me okay and they gave me a slap on the wrist they punished me okay and third uh I don't like your tone you stuck up [ __ ] criticizing me criticize do you know who I am sorry I lock a look alo no misogyny here this is a this is a misogyny free zone what am I doing what are you doing with like the ethics of the profession like for I guess like in my mind that's is ought and the whole discussion is whether or not we ought to support that not whether or not you know like an accrediting body supports it and therefore we should just fall in line because we believe in the accrediting body yeah it's the morals not just the ethics it was the just to be clear I do believe it was the Massachusetts Medical Board not the APA and like I think I don't know i guess like I can see why it feels like an attack to have a bunch of people on the internet flaming you and essentially blaming you for you know causing someone's death or not doing enough to prevent it um but at the same time it's like that is inherent to medicine you know like talk about the conflict of interest that's such a good that's such a good topic just tipped $5 i just joined and have no idea what's going on that hot Asian woman could be Hitler on steroids and I would still throw my life away for her uh-huh toy not not a good look toy okay not a good look at all um by the way guys if you like the content go ahead donate throw a couple subs at the stream give some subs uh throw some donations at me all right we're trying to get a eight nine hour 10 hour stream going today okay so I need more donations give some subs sub individually okay go exclamation point donate in the chat we'll give you both donation links okay donate donate donate uh we are eight subs away for another hour on the stream that'll get us to eight hours and then we'll do one final $75 hour to see if we can get there okay um hold on what am I thinking what am I thinking yeah go ahead donate throw some subs at me all right appreciate it it can be true that you did everything you could in your power oh sorry sorry sorry i was just about to say please talk about the the conflict of interest that's there building his channel building his presence by having this interview with this massive creator okay being able to interview him and talk to him about his mental health crisis show my chops show how well how good I am at speaking and Dr k no matter what you say about him is a fantasting speaker okay he is amazing at it all right he is incredibly charismatic he's incredibly convincing being able to be in front of that many eyes that would have been massive for his career um yeah basically no matter what so how does he separate his his ethical obligation from the incentive the financial incentive he has to continue on with that content to medicine you know like that's why we do M&M's it can be true that you did everything you could in your power in that moment it can also be true that you it up and you kill someone yep yep so I guess in my view I don't want to just say that Dr k is better than nothing i think Dr k is phenomenal i think he is excellent i don't think he's just better than nothing i think he's uniquely good i also think he's probably not replicable i think that's the actual concern that I have i think at a moral level he's actually like ex especially especially if the moral system that we're using to any degree is some level of utilitarianism like harm then I would say he's exceptionally good i think his orientation is good i think he does enough of the selfwork he's got enough board and oversight i think he is phenomenal the problem is that I don't think that a our counterpoints in a night like the two Christian utilitarians it's very very bizarre at a collegiate level listen she's doing the same thing i don't know if you hear it it is the same as the Conor argument right listen if he has to one out of 100 people that he helps that he saves from like he's just got to do it okay that Hey you got to break a couple wreckful domes to make an omelet okay you got to let those things hit the pavement at whatever speed to make the omelette all right it's just it's a requirement level it's replicable in an ethical way without a lot more thought about safeguards right because while I think Dr k actually handles himself not just ethically above board but morally above board which I think is the fundament like I'm I'm sure you and I agree there are some ethics that exist within medicine that are just mostly about liability but the ones we care about are the moral ethics right it's about the moral um requirement of being given the station that you have um I just think that at a moral level she's doing Wait so basically you have to you have to admit then then like the the Mangallay ethos right where it's like yeah we have to torture these people but we're going to make medical advances that save thousands right that was the that's not technically true i think uh I think Meguay actually really didn't make any sign significant scientific contributions but if he had that that would be okay it's preposterous right nobody actually believes this nobody actually thinks this is good it's insane basically the highest level moral that he possibly can but I do think that he has slipped up i think for example Reckful is a situation where he probably should have vetted better he probably should have opted more quickly to say this is not the best my understanding is that after Reckful they also did a massive internal look at it and did update their process by which who comes on um and they vetted a little bit more closely um which I think personally saved him from getting more than a slap on the wrist i personally think the update to the processes that they underwent and that they could document and show in their review uh the the review they went through that led to the slap on the wrist i think if they had not done that I think they would have gotten a much bigger penalty if they hadn't gone "Oh [ __ ] we have to make sure this never happens again showing that showing like hey we think this was a [ __ ] up which by the way it is admitting it was a [ __ ] up that you have you put processes into place to make sure something doesn't happen again right but I think that I think that saved them i think that is the thing that that that saved them was hey we know that this was like although we may not be culpable we should be able to avoid even being the appearance of culpability there that should be our bar avoiding even the appearance trying to think of what else cuz you said a few things there that I wanted to respond to i should have written them down um replicability the concern I think that we have at a collegiate level with Dr k is okay say Dr k truly does have all these good intentions he's built all these safeguards he has other medical professionals that vet his stuff that are constantly updating and redoing their programming and they're constantly trying to basically self-evaluate and ensure that they are being as ethically solid as they absolutely can be particularly in an ethically gray medium right which social media just obviously is because you're getting rid of one of the one of the major components which is the privacy right um which I just totally agree with um as being gone um I don't know if I believe that privacy is like this end all beall um particularly if the person's consenting like we have group therapy for a reason and I group therapy is super super effective um if you have somebody okay that's true but like I'm sure live streamed group therapy would also be something that would be questionable right like I think the live stream aspect of it where if things do go poorly or you you make a poor decision that you're also like propagating that over the internet and you're not taking into account not just the propagation so not just which I think the medical board or yeah the medical board decided wasn't necessarily the biggest deal the propagating of the the content um it's how that content has a feedback loop on Reckful right oh Dr k is your therapist you did those therapy sessions with Dr k hey Reckful says he's feeling dumb hey Reckful why don't you call Dr k hey Reckful have you thought about talking to Mr oloque again hey Reckful right there's a there's a feedback loop that happens when it's live streamed when it's all put out on the internet that's something that like is not the same as it just not being private right the group the group chat or the group therapy setting is not even remotely applicable here who's not ethical who's not maybe meeting well who isn't capturing themselves more closely who's asking third parties regularly to reevaluate them i think that the Dr k model could be disastrously harmful and I think that's more so where the question of it has to be engaged with not so much that like well what Dr k is doing is risky it's like it is risky but if he's consistently performing above board he still has some errors but if he's also responding to those errors correctly and ethically that's what we would ask him to do the real question is what if somebody else who doesn't want to be as ethical does it that's the real question like what do we do with that situation and that's the actual concern that I think the I think that's the issue is with medical with medical stuff broadly you don't want to break eggs to to make the omelette right isn't that the thing is like you basically can't tell until it's already happened like almost all ethics complaints are in review of issues that happened right i would imagine in in medical stuff it's usually after something bad has happened that the the review comes and the ethical complaints come you probably can't say "Well I hope good people only do this ethical like violation." Out people with the best of intentions are the only ones who ever step into this ethical quagmire uh okay and then it's just totally it's not totally but it's becomes very subjective right and I think Erdite has a a history a little bit okay i'm not going to step too heavily in this but of her subjective evaluations tend to rely on who she likes i maybe that's true for everybody but I think her liking Dr k has a lot to do with her being so forgiving of Dr k dr k situation raises as we don't know the answer right the APA coming out in support of him means like I' i've watched so many psychologists talk about the APA finding Dr k and they're like I guess what he's doing is just like any of us could just kind of do this but also like is it I I'm positive it's not an APA finding or I hate is it not the Massachusetts medical board it's not an APA it's not a psychological organization a therapist organization finding it is the ma Massachusetts medical board right that that's like a very important distinction isn't it like wouldn't they have fairly different codes of conduct i do believe they reference I think they reference an APA standard in the Massachusetts Medical Board review if we up too much that's going to be really bad right and so yeah I think you're raising really serious concerns i just don't know if Dr k deserves the uh punishment i think people are putting the risk that he uh presents as a moral baton against his You want to know what actually pisses me off it's that there's not somebody in Erdite's chat who can correct her like I when I say people in my chat correct me right but I don't I hope somebody here says now this the second time it said will we find somebody who says the whole like hey it's actually the Massachusetts Medical Board it was not an APA review character when his character is actually above board but the risk is serious and has to be looked at at a at a uh uh at an industry level mhm yeah but I think maybe ultimately my objection to it is just that I'm not there are no DJs in the room there are lots of DJs in the room i recognize a lot of names here sure that what he's trying to do can actually be done in a safe and ethical way like you can put in safeguards to make sure egregious things don't happen but I'm just not sure that the fact that like other people he's interviewed haven't gone on to take their own lives is proof that what he's doing is net positive and I think simply because like first of all his is not okay there are some people who are disagreeing uh this is baby blasphemy i think that's a that's a DGR he's disagreeing here at least on the risk of doing nothing is also huge sure that is kind of a disagreement there i I think um so there's another example of this that I actually got linked cuz people do be watching sometimes okay this is another is another example okay this overall this overall conduct not just after World War I but this is this is uh Eerite talking about apparently the Balffor declaration hold on what oh oh it's kicked so it's going to crash anyway let's see what happens you're going to be complete garbage cool two and after World War I but especially after World War II and I also understand why like the area around Ju Jerusalem was selected obviously i just I don't know where you would have put them because if you like if you put them else if you put get space ghost out of here something like Madagascar maybe everything would have been solved they probably wouldn't have gone like I I don't I don't know enough about the Balffor to say 100% but I feel like it was it was strongly advocated against by the UK and America pushed for it anyways and I don't Ah yes that is a informed opinion true wow in fact the Balffor declaration set up almost entirely by the UK I believe and not remotely by the US at all i'm just hoping there'll be somebody who uh no doesn't care cause he's supporting and defending i think there's a reason why the UK said no hold on let's just see i just want to see if um Hold on actually I should pull up from there cuz apparently there are other instances of this okay watch full video hold on maybe she keeps talking about it more um not 100% but I feel like it was it was strongly advocated against by the UK okay we're looking for we're looking for people who said we're looking for people who are going to say this in the chat right he's supporting and defending the and Hamas treatment of their own people i can't stand his kind of activist i just I just hate when he's like "See Hamas is the only one listening to the rules." They don't even make up like they literally hide insurgents in safety zones like they're not even trying to facilitate aid and refugee zones they're constantly putting their own soldiers in there for a very obvious purpose it's reallying bad it's bad so it's like And then what does Israel do well then they often end up Okay okay well I think Spixen I don't know if Spixen actually likes her or just hate watches but he says Lord Balfish but also if they keep going in civilian areas to hide from being bombed i don't know what the [ __ ] you do you might say they should go in with tactical super officers but then you're sending in a whole bunch of Israelis to go likely get Oh I was just talking about the fact that I'm looking for like her chat to Okay i'm looking for her chat to correct that obviously incorrect statement many of them did she's not really watching from afar which is very tough in a democracy to do oh no actually a couple people are saying no i don't think the US was involved with B for declaration at all channel yes he's got a channel called Noah Samson i don't think US was I believe the US was in uh in many ways involved they were the only ones involved mostly UK but okay okay I'm going to bed i'm tired i'm going to eat and then go to bed sorry to end on such a dower this is like the worst topic ever it's soing depressing at least for me cuz I just like don't I just don't know i just don't know the answer there's going to be somebody's going to come back to fight on this right but it's so sad queen would have been perfect for this segment he said "I'm going to go eat and I'll be right back like two and a half hours ago." Okay that's so miserably sad i think at some point he's got to cut bait and be like I'll just make I'll I'll get like a bunch of viewers for this tomorrow i think okay good night everyone thanks for sticking around have a good one where should I read you guys off to i don't know oh come on come on there has to be one more person there has to be one more and congrats we don't get Bye there is one more example hold on is it a different stream maybe it's a different stream oh this is during the thing i see i just want to see it one more time you pause she's reading an answer isn't what we're talking about we're talking about who has the power to solve it and who's responsible and it's Israel well arguably it's America as far as like the Balfford Accord being kind of pushed through um to them being placed in uh in like the Ottoman area of the Palestinian land or whatever so arguably this this is like incredible sorry like this level of she was just complaining about non-trained people commenting on stuff and dude did you what was she doing when Destiny was going to Israel and [ __ ] was she following any of the content at all was she just like cuz she was supposed to be setting up like PV stuff and and the Bridges podcast and that took forever it's America in like 1917 but it's complicated because the reason why it was pushed through for them okay i Anyway I just thought that was funny that was just that was a little funny tangent okay little funny tangent real quick speaking on things confidently when we're incorrect speaking on things we're not trained on supposed to be your friend in medicine there's a reason why you're not supposed to treat friends or family members unless it's like a time of emergency yeah but I do think when it's like that is an interesting point mock rabbit crazy how air date picked up every Destiny mannerism except I could be wrong but now I'm not 100% sure you know I correct me if I'm wrong here but uh technically you know listen I could be wrong here but uh uh isn't this isn't this uh listen I'm not 100% sure on this listen this I'm like I'm only like 80% confident on this okay a fellow streamer you know you like get to know them you you know engage with each other's communities it's hard to really keep that that mentality of like we are not friends you know I am treating you and I think it also is just difficult for me to believe that therapy can really be maximally effective when the to believe that therapy can really be max okay I got to see what the frame was the frame the desktop okay debate sheet February canvasing February canvasing eh what was this for debate sheet huh advanced system care very interesting maximally very interesting when there are like thousands of people watching it like group therapy I think is a little bit different because all the people in that group you know like they can relate to the experience right and it's also meant to be like what you say in group therapy stays within group therapy whereas in these online discussions like anyone can clip it there can be people who come just to hate watch it um it can essentially be weaponized by people who genuinely cannot relate to what he's going through oh that's a good that's a good point the intentions of a lot a lo don't necessarily matter here do they he could have the best of intentions and by streaming this he actually could like what are you going to do if Reckful like trauma dumps something insane on you that's used to mock him for the rest of his streaming career right what if like he you've got him like deep in something and suddenly he's like "Yeah I was just like I was molested by my uncle when I was like 12 and now now he just gets mocked for that how do you prevent that from happening?" That is a good point from uh who is this the serial person cereal for dinner or something um I agree that I I would basically say like I I think you're you're nailing all of the risks that are associated with it like absolutely um obviously my position on Dr okay would up well the the very important thing here is that it is disjoint entirely from his intent zero for every meal okay yes it's disjoint entirely from his intent aloque could have the best of intentions in the entire world and there could still be major risks there to doing that if more evidence came out for example that there was mass amounts of harm that like if even like 10% of the people that went on later became significantly worse they received a large amount of hatred and stuff that would be something that I think should be very seriously weighed i'm just not seeing that evidence at this point in time um it's interesting i It's very interesting talking to a uh somebody in the medical field because I think it's a very interesting by the way Erdite's assertion a lot of the time is you guys don't know the medical field you guys are uninformed you don't have any idea what's going on here you if you were informed if you were in the medical field you would know that Dr k is totally innocent here that really didn't do anything wrong that's her position most of the time on the Dr k stuff is it's all these uninformed people who have no idea about medical ethics or uh therap therapy ethics right these are the people who are against it everybody else who's got any amount of information who's got any amount of training will be totally on board with Dr k basically did nothing wrong here he is a positive force for good in psychology there's kind of like two camps there's very much like the medical field camp and then there's like the arts camp this is why you can get an arts degree and a science degree um and so kind of what you're outlining is the current war in therapy for example where it's like people like "Well you're not your client's friend." And in therapy we're like we're definitely closer to a friend than not a friend uh we're a paid friend right but like in DBT therapy you call that person you're available for 24 hours a day for the first week that you take on that client and you try to actively build a pretty like close person relationship and there's certain like ethical provisions that have been made for example for like attending event but likeh I feel like the way you build out those new things would be would require like a lot of testing and protocol like I I I feel like you're building a process right there i don't know events with that person like going to graduations or like going like to a graduation after wait which that is a good question she's not a therapist what do you mean in therapy what do you mean in therapy well in the therapy field it's like wait are you a therapist after party and there's like ethical standards erected for how you manage that situation right because Yes so when somebody is doing something like that they have standards by which they act it's not like fairly unmapped which the streamer therapy stuff kind of was if therapy if the main healing modality that we can find is rapport and relationship that means our ethics cannot be the thing making the treatment less efficacious that would be harming our clients for our own safety which would be bad but at the same time some of the people most willing to lean in Wait so hold on i think Aerodite's basically laying out for us that if it was like if they figured out that hey if somebody has this mental illness okay there's a 75% chance thating them helps them do better and a 25% chance that them kills them you just go through with it right utilitarianism wise right i just came up with the dumbest hypothetical but I think that's like about right i don't know into ethically muddy areas with their clients are also more likely to be people a lot of the time and not be super cautious i would say the the primary difference between a friend and a therapist is how you set up boundaries right as a therapist you need training you get training on hey you're going to have a very close rapport with these people right you're going to have a very close rapport here are techniques for not crossing ethical lines while building that close rapport you're building a relationship yes and you can have a friendly relationship yes but the thing that happens with friends and the reason why it's really harsh to kick your friend to the curb who's done something wrong is because you will not set up effective boundaries you won't be able to understand where your mind is like warping reality to make them seem better right you won't understand any of that you you can't you can't you can't judge them correctly you can't help them correctly right you'll you'll give them way too much charity in situations where there's no reason for it that's like I I believe that is a significant part of like of psychological ethics and like building up a what do you call it like a a professional set of standards as a therapist anyway about it which is a huge u like you're outlining perfectly the battle in psych you need to be objective well you need to try to be objective and you build tools to help you remain objective despite having that close rapport with somebodyology uh in very in very good terms Sorry I have worms in my brain can you say a little bit more on that i Let me translate that for you i'm pretty confident translation is I just totally disagree with everything you said can you speak a little bit more cuz like I don't exactly know how to [ __ ] this pig yet um basically there's like I'll use really stupid words for this instead um okay there's like the artsy there's like the she started so I'm gonna call your camp blah blah blah and my camp blah blah blah blah artsy woo woo people they are still empirically trained professionals i'm not that far not that far off artsy fartsy woo people artsy woo woo people who are concerned that if we erect ethics that are about like keeping distance from clients we're harming the main modality by which treatment occurs right which is rapport and relationship and like a yeah you get it and then there's the other and again just to be clear my my position on the medical ethics side would be you need to $5 I will attempt to have with Asian fem Hitler in order to make her better i'll do it I'll do it for you JSDLK for everyone not good not good not good don't Don't allow that that's pretty gross other side keep donating money though i guess that's like And if we don't keep Sorry Toya toya i usually I usually let the donations go but Jesus man these standards really strict people are going to take advantage of their clients and that is the worst possible outcome and that is I I don't know the answer um that's a really contentious issue in psychology this is like the war between the research psychologist and the practicing psychologists mhm okay yeah that makes sense i guess it's just like I I feel like maybe psychology cannot So okay so what how if you don't have like clear standards here or if you don't develop techniques for remaining um you know some amount distant like Erdite's arguing like there there's no way she's arguing for this because she's arguing basically that establishing boundaries or limits actually harms your ability to treat the client right it's like no you you would argue unless you just want to argue to me right now thating your client shouldn't be off the table if you think it can help them you should be able to [ __ ] your client right that the then we're just arguing about where the line is and you agree that there need to be boundaries i Isn't this totally decided and she's lying i mean I I don't know for a fact i would I would assume yes i would assume that this is the reason why your doctor can't be like that close a friend i would assume this is a ton of how you learn to deal with um like having bedside manner and being close and and warm with people and making them feel like they can trust you while not having that relationship be like totally birectional that you should be able to still make objective decisions with respect to them it's why surgeons can't operate on family members or shouldn't operate on family members it's the entire idea of a conflict of interest right it is pretty decided view itself perhaps like a serious and almost like medical science perhaps and maybe not be held to the same standards i agree i agree i mean like it sounds so totally like one of the corny things like we get told like you know you can't like first of all is like do no harm right everything else is like it comes after and so I guess maybe that's why in this case I don't fully buy the util arguments um and also I do think that oh I didn't I didn't quite listen to her all that well we get I got I actually listened to her i was checking some other stuff hold on first of all it's like do no harm right everything else is like it comes after oh yes do no harm thank you and so I guess maybe that's why in this case I don't fully buy the util arguments um and also I do think that Yes exactly thank you there's an element of rapport in therapy but the rapport comes from you like the therapist consciously making the decision to hold the patient in unconditional positive regard even if they as an individual would not be inclined to do that mhm that being said as soon as you notice that there is transference that is like a major issue and in cases where it's an online setting with a friend who you know likes you enough to agree to come on also maybe is motivated by the fact that it'll grow both of your audiences y I feel like there's almost just like an inbuilt level of transference that like is like kind of inevitable uh transference psychoanalysis the re redirection to a substitute usually a therapist of emotions that were originally felt in childhood in a phase of analysis called transference neurosis therapy is aided by the patient's transference to the analyst as the as mother okay patient views nurse as being on a similar being similar to an important person in his/ her life okay hold on so that that risk of transference is what makes it like they start to tr trust or rely on you too much almost just like an inbuilt level of transference that like is like kind of inevitable yeah and it's well the I guess if you're deciding that transference is a harm right if transfers transference is a harm where like that's a the the sign that a boundary has been violated then okay then that that seems like you're you're skipping transference and just making the issue of transference like the primary thing you're going for right we're going to be friends we're actually gonna I'm actually going to be an important person in your life not just like I'm going to take the the place of a important person in your life essentially what I'm saying is the psychology woowoo people are saying is transference semi expected and how do we navigate it ethically if it's part of the process by which healing occurs like if if transference is sometimes like unavoidable cuz like for example there's been here's a classic here's a classic ethical conundrum we were given um in one of my ethics classes we've got a client who engages in lots of transference they often come try to get way too close to their therapist and as a result they have been transferred from care six times they've now seen six different therapists and they're always transferred because they get too close and the therapist doesn't want to engage in that and they're basically at the point where they're going to give up on psychotherapy entirely they're basically going to walk away and they have a pretty severe mental health condition what do you do i just it's clear it's it's an ethical conundrum because it's an ethical conundrum yeah what if they tell you like you have to let them you literally let me you or I'll kill myself right now aerodite has basically given away that she's completely vulnerable to this res okay this is unfailed unfailing it will work every time very unfortunate okay she's she's shown the weakness the [ __ ] in the armor okay i don't know i mean I I feel like for me I guess it depends on how how the transverse transverse is actually impacting our relationship lake Toya VA just tipped $5 don't worry there's 0% chance of me following through because women frighten me ps2 JRPGs and anime are my only loves take note fellas 3d PD brother I guess in this case positives outweigh the harms what's up Silvercrew i would maybe be willing to give it another shot but I really feel like there would have to be very clear pros outweigh the cons it can't be like nebulous it can't be like 60% 10 like 40% um and I also maybe would only do it as a bridge to other therapists i would not do it with the idea that well you know like me is better than like nothing so I guess it's me yeah right so um I think one criticism of Dr k could actually actually be was he reckless was he a little bit too willing to just like he in his desire to want to help someone he was incautious about certain very valid ethics that have been erected and caut and cause of caution right was he too reckless in that um so in this case right it's like okay say you decide to take on the client well you better do so cautiously with a lot of boundaries pre-established and probably a third party to check in regularly to make sure that the boundaries stay maintained the ethical boundaries stay maintained like as much as possible right and it's also grand i know I know you're a Mr girl fan mr girl's video is literally called reckless what the [ __ ] is wrong with her no mr girl is a terribly unhinged psychopath okay who is damaging to society nothing at all like anyone else she knows that client unfortunately maybe can't be help maybe they have to go to an impatient treatment center where to be honest transference happens at a much more extreme degree but you also have the boundary of you get to leave the space um and they're they stay there mhm yeah that makes sense yeah um not to distract too much but I keep on eyeing the bunny on the side of your What the [ __ ] you've been debating a lot that chair must be really warm and in desperate need of a sniff bury me in satin uhhuh yeah i feel like we're getting I feel like we're getting to the bottom of things okay i feel like we're getting to the Uhhuh uhhuh yeah okay not to that this guy is this guy is this guy this guy distract too much but I keep on eyeing the bunny on the side of your bed mickey she was very Oh don't wait don't let her get out of this convers by the way the the Asian girl really never bought into this at all expensive really i bought her at the um Yeah yeah she's a lamp so I bought her at the um Momma store yeah is that $200 moral might be a moral at the same time totally worth it don't regret it does she like turn on when you like pat her head or So there's like a little remote that comes with it and she can be different colors she can strobe like Oh I'm surprised you don't Do you ever use it on your stream like turn it on for some strobing effect i used to so I used to have her game that was like picky's color oh okay um I just haven't done it mainly because I've been lazy and I haven't merged her it's so cute is um your general aesthetic i really like the like general aesthetic in your room um would you say that your room is a good representation of your the general aesthetic that this person is trying to keep their room as minimalist as possible that they're trying to make the room say nothing about them i really love how your room says literally nothing about you and I have nothing to engage with other than that bunny i love that i love that for you um hold on i'm gonna restate this question because I'm I fudged it do you think that aesthetic is a good way to present like your inward outward stuff that's Freya by the way the dog sorry i would just like like when I think I like look at the sky um I think it's a reasonable approximation mhm i don't think it's fully accurate like if I if I had like more money things would look a lot different here you know what would be different uhhuh am I tiny my room is and how janky my chair looks those things will change for sure i'm not going to be an [ __ ] what about that i see there's no like posters on the wall is there like do you like like the minimalist look or would you want to put stuff up i would love to put stuff up i'm just too lazy and I'm also a renter so I don't want to have to patch up after super fair super fair are you in like a dorm or why is your room so tiny um I mean no I am off campus it's just because I'm cheap and I chose cheap friend yeah that's I was like "Yeah like I can survive with this you know." So you're renting a room in like a shared This is like uh I feel like um this girl would know no she's irrelevant i'm sorry she's basically on a first date with Rei right now it's very uncomfortable to watch okay this is basically a Really first date all right we got the interview riz going on i'm just going to keep spamming you with questions until I don't know i don't know no I'm just going to keep spamming questions okay what do you like how oh look your room's cool i love the bunny uh where did you get the bunny okay would you put stuff up in your walls do you think rooms a good room aesthetic is a good idea of like who you are inside oh that's cool uh room seems kind of small is that because you're on campus is that you living in dorms is that why it's so small no oh well you know it's cool being cheap it's cool being cheap living with your friend i love your hair what's like your skincare routine uh do you do you like polish that floor it's really shiny um I see oh my god you like coats you like coats that are leather with furry cover furry cuffs on them oh my god me too have you seen my picture with Andrew Tate on my Twitter banner oh my god i'm guessing oh my god oh my god oh my god yeah it's me and my roommate and then he got the nicer bedroom nice um cuz whatever you know he gets princess treatment um room into a gym without my consent he just went and did it and like bought the professional gym like squat rack and like a full set of weights i was going to say you're kind of buff so he brought his like urg from home um that was actually a funny joke if she was not being serious that's actually funny you're kind of buff but I think the reason it works out is because he is also very OCD and so he does all the upkeep so I'm willing to kind of stay and keep my mess in my tiny room if it means that I benefit from his OCD i mean it's really messy in your room i'm not going to lie i was I didn't Is that Is she describing she describing somebody with like one for her i hope not he's just this really awesome friend who like cleans everything did she say boyfriend wait maybe she said boyfriend i thought she was saying roommate maybe she means boyfriend hold on was she saying boyfriend i thought she said roommate cuz I was about to run with the whole thing okay hold on let me pull it without my consent he just I was like "Yeah like I can survive with this you know." So you're renting a room in like a shared house I'm guessing yeah it's me and my roommate and then he nicer bedroom nice um whatever you know he gets princess treatment um okay a gym without my consent he just went and did it like bought the professional gym like squat run off and like a whole set of weights i was going to say you're kind of buff so he brought his like urg from home okay all right all right i don't um but I think the reason it works out is because he is also very OCD and so he was willing to kind of stay and keep my mess in my tiny room if it means that I benefit from his OCD i mean it's really messy in your room i'm not going to lie i was I didn't want to see yeah it's rough it's rough for sure joking it's like perfectly put away everything's got a place maybe are you like the Asmin Gold where like whatever you can see on camera is the only clean space around you oh yeah i mean like and this is after I cleaned up part of why I was late was because I was like making my bed you know like moving this stuff out of frame ah base there's like eight different McDonald's bags in front of her let's go XQC style that's the XQC way that's not the Asmin Gold way that's the XQC way where he looks like he has a totally sick room it's awesome and then he picks up the camera and shows you beside his and it's like there's like 85 McDonald's containers all over the place with like halfeaten burgers everywhere dresser there's like a whole pile of clothing in this corner that has been there the entire year i can't I can't do the uh It's so rough that's actually surprising part of me is like I don't know if I believe you cuz it a whole pile of clothing you know like moving this stuff out of the whole pile of clothing that's been there for the whole pile of clothing in this corner that has been there the entire year it's so rough that's actually surprising part of me is like I don't know if I believe uh we all know this person because it looks so clean in your room and I was like it's so messy you're like I know it is and I'm like it's literally not messy it's so clean yeah know I'm just too image conscious yeah I knew this fiction guy was a hate watcher why does a person inshed in the study of the mind have so little self-awareness of what is practically mentally ill ways of coping with modernity just to allow that to be seen publicly but everything Would you say you're like mentally like you're a doctor would you qualify yourself as like mentally ill like maybe you're kind of a hoarder with all those books in the corner chaotic like if you could see my desk right now it's bad i have like open like couscous salad i've got my mug i've got like makeup i got like a random bottle of ivor absolute slob couscous slob behavior right there oh yeah a mug that's crazy lake Toy just tipped $5 thank god she just said roommate i had an Amazon page pulled up jesus Christ stop the moral of today's stream is to choose life guys stop stop also guys don't forget to donate and uh sub so we get more time on the stream okay but thank you $15 from Toy on the board five subs for another hour um usually I have more just a phone water bottle i don't know i don't know what happens after the Dr k stuff i might switch off of this there might be more but I might switch off of it for now and go back over maybe to Piers Morgan or something i did want to watch the Piers Morgan stuff on our signal conversations okay I do want to see that [ __ ] have you ever done the game [ __ ] no what is it it's uh Do you know who Aya Girl is no um she's It's just Cards Against Humanity right no not quite [ __ ] is just um [ __ ] is kicker keep okay [ __ ] is kicker keep put into card game there you go that's what it is worker um kind of like sciency girl she's sciency girl super fun but she made this game do you want me to ask you a question from it yeah sure okay you have sad romance personal intellectual or controversial what do you want those are the top let's say controversial okay that's blue if it's like toos I'll change it cuz it is a sex worker who made this so some of them are insane okay oh no i'm scared um is beastiality wrong is that really so controversial i feel like there's a clear right there's a followup question there's a follow-up question okay oh what what's like the minimum IQ person you would then i think what what at what level of IQ do you I think that's the that's got to be the follow-up question right how JFP are you you're trying to kill me i mean yeah i think it's I think it's wrong me too are you a vegan i used to be oh I had to stop because I had like eating disorder issues no I see absolutely no indication of that anywhere on my screen currently um but I think I feel I don't feel super bad about it also thank you listen I I eat meat but I feel the appropriate amount of guilty afterwards i self flag okay that almost cancels out you know I think Asian girls can be this small and it's like fine i think I think I just It's off it's weird to me that's all you have the appropriate amount of guilt uh yeah i mean obviously the the the point is if you're a meat eater anything beastiality is Wrix get out of here get out of You don't want to be here for this Wri you don't want to be here for this wrong she'd be like "Why why is that wrong