Transcript for:
Kr day 29 2024

e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] he you hear you hear you all persons have anything do before The Honorable Beverly kenon the Justice of the superior court now sitting in zum within and far the Conwell draia give your attendance and you shall be heard God save the calth of Massachusetts this cour is in session please be seated all right Jim uh 22117 the conwal versus Karen Reed all right good morning Council good morning Miss Reed good morning jar asked you those same three questions were you all able to follow the instructions and refrain from discussing this case with anyone since we left yesterday everyone said yes so nodded affirmatively were you also able to follow the instructions and refrain from doing any independent research or investigation into this case everyone said yes and nodded affirmatively did anyone happen to see here read anything about this case since we left here yesterday everyone said no thank you very much do we have Dr scy Bellow [Music] please court and jury the case down the truth the whole truth truth I [Music] do whenever you're ready Mr L good morning doctor good morning morning do good morning Dr Bell if I could ask you some some questions turning back a little bit from what you were testifying to about yesterday um you had mentioned in your testimony yesterday that you had received some uh in additional in addition to uh the internal and external examination that you conducted Mr o'keef you to receive some other material that you had reviewed correct correct now included with in that material was some uh material from the state police as far as the investigative agency uh investigating uh Mr oi's death correct now is that something is that typical is that abnormal uh if you could um describe sort of uh in general terms um as far as what if any communication would you typically have with the investigating uh body or agency in relation to uh any sort of autopsy or examination you doing yes uh in Massachusetts under Massachusetts law uh the medical examiner's office is responsible and our role is to determine the cause and manner of death by doing an autopsy the scene or uh the scene of death or the place where the decedent is found um is controlled by the District Attorney's office and State Police um will do an investigation when we accept a case into our office we uh request reports police reports uh to explain and describe the circumstances of the death it could be a house it could be um somewhere else could be outside every case comes with a police report and we review that police report and if we feel that we need more information then we contact the investigating um body and ask for more information um again depending on the case and specifically in this case in regards to Mr o'keef did you reach out uh to get some more information I did reach out yes and was that in part uh in relation to what you were talking about in your testimony yesterday as far as the diagnosis of hypothermia and trying to sort of better understand circumstances objection sustained why did you reach it I reached out because um when the case was presented to us um and after I did the autopsy I did not have all the information that I needed in order to certify the manner the cause of death to me um was um I was able to determine the cause of death from the autopsy when an event is unwitnessed um I we usually reach out to um the investigating agency and ask them whether they have any more information than they did on the day that the autopsy was done because investigations sometimes take some time so in the days and the weeks following um the autopsy I reached out and asked if there was um any more information than uh what I was originally presented with was there any uh video from the surrounding areas what did anybody come forward to say that they actually witnessed whatever happened um and uh again um by the time I was um ready to finalize the case and we have uh approximately 3 months or 90 days from the day of the autopsy um until um we issue a report um I was not provided with enough information for me to be able to determine the manner now doctor do you recall specifically who it was that you spoke with from the state police yes I documented that I spoke with uh Tripper Proctor I believe twice and with reference not asking you anything as far as what that conversation consisted of but as far as the tone of that conversation um did you feel uh pressured or coerced to come up with a certain determination no I did not and even if you had been uh what would your response have been in reference to that my response was that I am responsible for what goes on the death certificate and unless I have enough information clear and convincing um evidence I cannot determine a manner yes [Music] dror I'm showing [Applause] you five photographs that I um gave to you yesterday do you recognize those yes I do and what do you recognize those to be uh I recognize these as photographs of Mr ke's body um I believe these were taken at the hospital uh one of them is a photograph taken at the time of autopsy thank may approach again your yes introdu the exes he little no objection thank you 64 thank you thank you very much may have a moment I just want to make sure they're in the yes FL apprach again yes your honor with commission may public for the joury so there is remember the instruction I gave you yesterday on these photographs okay let's if I can have a photograph 2853 doctor do you recognize what's up on the screen yes uh this is a picture taken of Mr R's body and Dr if you could using the laser pointer have direct the jury's attention to U what if anything You observe of significance in this Photograph related to the injuries that you were testifying about this yes so first thing you um notice is the medical Intervention which I talked about yesterday there's the fibrator adhesive pads on the chest there is what's known as a c colar um a cervical stabilization color for the neck and he has been intubated um prior to um uh going to the hospital the injuries uh that are uh obvious in this picture include the abrasions on his right forearm and arm um and you can see here um there is this coloration of the upper eyelid of the right eye with uh some blood that's dripping um that's the orbital or supraorbital OSIS that I described before with um we're too far to see the very very small uh laceration that is present there but that's what's causing um the bleeding and if I have photograph 57 now doctor this is not before you at the current time is car Mark 442 do you recognize what's up on the screen yes this is a picture um of the abrasions that I described in my report um posterior upper arm um and forearm you can see that they have some sort of pattern to it anytime we see um a pattern we try to document it as best as we possibly can now doctor with reference to these injuries as far astion Mr O's right arm uh what kind r that play as far as your determination as far as cause of death of these are superficial abrasions to the skin they are not lethal they're not contributory to the cause of death the trauma that I observed on the head along with the hypothermia are the two factors contributing to his death these are present they're noted they're described they're photographed but I do not know how they came to be and I did not contribute them to the cause of death M Gilman if I could have photograph 286 do returning to the exhibit of photos that you have before you do you recognize your on the screen here yes this is a photograph of Mr ke's Right Hand this is the dorsum or the dorsal aspect of the hand as opposed to the Palm um and you can see that there are some um contusions or bruises um there's a larger one here and two very small ones here this particular contusion um has two pinpoint um small um defects uh associated with it I believe this is this could be due to attempts at um gaining uh IV access uh during uh the many attempts of resuscitation but I cannot be um absolutely uh sure if I can have photograph 265 and Dr if you could again using the wayo director jury's attention to anything of significance you not in this photog again this is a slightly closer um view of Mr K's uh face you can see the discoloration the eimos is on the right eye with a slight amount of bleeding you can see here that there's also some discoloration of his left eye left eyelid and doctor with reference to the other injuries that you were testifying about yesterday as far as the uh small or raions or lacerations are those visible in this Photograph as well I can hear your question if you could just repeat it and a little louder sure my apologies do with reference to this Photograph as far as your testimony yesterday in regard to uh the uh other smaller injuries around the nose and eyes area of Mr o'keef are those visible in this Photograph as well you can see some discoloration of um of the nose but this is not a very good good um picture of it I think there's a linear abrasion uh on the left side of the nose um that I described and it's probably this Photograph 2877 and doctor if you could again using the laser point director's attention anything significant You observe in this yes this is a view of the left side of Mr ke's face you can see the discoloration of the left eyelid and now you can see this um linear abrasion on his nose and a small um abrasion uh more towards the middle of his nose it's going lastly from this set I have photograph 9488 than Dr if you could using the L director jury's attention to what if anything of significant you're observ this uh this is the laceration to the back of Mr aef's head um you can see this defect here it's uh it's ragged it's a it's a typical classic uh blunt impact injury and you can see the abrasion the scrape that is um adjacent to it thank you I'm we get out the light [Music] thank now doctor reference to um what you we testifying yesterday as far as the sub scapular uh bleeding uh bleeding under the scalp is that more or less prominent on one side versus the other side of of Mr scalp yes it was more prominent under that laceration that we just looked at and so with that being more prominent on the right side is that correct yes now you testified uh yesterday about a blunt uh object's injury in relation to uh the injury to the back of the head uh then leading to the fractures and the the bleeding in the Breck correct correct and then further leading to the ecosis is that correct in the eyes yes now that blunt uh object um what if anything can you say about uh what what that blunt object would be could be any blunt object now uh from your training experience uh with reference to the number of of autopsies and examinations that you've conducted over the years would that blunt objects uh possibility include the ground especially if it was frozen ground objection ask the question differently the injuries that you observed to the back of Mr oi's head um skull fracture would that be consistent with a fall to the ground it it could be would that be consistent with uh being projected by an object saying a pedestrian collision and then striking your head on the ground it's possible the arm injuries That You observe would those be consistent uh with scratches from either glass or a piece of plastic or a piece of metal it's possible and the injuries uh that you observed um would that be consistent with uh injuries that you observed in other cases of a pedestrian Collision they're not the classic pedestrian injuries that we observe no and to that point as far as as when you say classic as far as a pedestrian Collision is concerned you've conducted autopsies on on a number of different pedestrian collisions over the course of your career is that correct yes I have do they all sort of mirror each other is there uh sort of a disparity depending on how the person interacted with the objection sustained watch the form Mr ly what if anything are every injuries from a pedestrian Collision the same no no and why not it depends on many factors it depends on the uh position of the body it of of The Pedestrian uh or the person being uh Struck it depends on whether they are moving or standing still um it depends on the speed uh of the car uh it depends on whether our brakes were applied or not um there's a lot of factors that come into play would another Factor be sort of the shape of the vehicle uh that that strikes The Pedestrian that's also possible yes that's a factor and did you have occasion to see any photographs or have you seen any photographs in relation to the defendant vehicle in in this case I have seen photographs yes and the size or or shape of that vehicle what if any significance to that have to you as far as your exam I'll allow it when we have a potential vehicle um clearly we look at the height uh because one of the things that we do in most or all um pedestrian or people struck by a motor vehicle is look at the legs because in the majority we see injuries to the legs from the bumper of uh the car again depending on on the kind of car the size of the car and the height of the bumper so in Mr Keef I did not see any injuries in the lower extremities um and looking at the car I did note that it was a much bigger car um with um much higher um uh I would say much higher tail light bumper um it was not a sedan or a car that's low to the ground where the the bumper would be at the level of let's say the knee or um slightly above or slightly below and again I believe yesterday in your testimony you indicated that the skull is a a pretty thick phone is that correct yes sustained with regards um to the thickness of the skull bone what if any significance uh or what if any uh what if anything you say as far as the type or amount of force that would be caused to would be necessary to cause the uh the fracture That You observe overruled I would consider the amount of first to be significant again without being able to quantify it I have a moment joh yes [Music] a doctor from the internal and external examination that you conducted in regard to Mr o'keith as well as the other materials uh that you reviewed uh were able to come to an opinion uh to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to the cause of death of John O yes the cause of death was due to blun impact injuries of the head and hypothermia thank you doctor I have no further questions right examination good morning Dr spy Bell good morning Miss little keep your voice up absolutely you testified regarding a number of injuries that you referred to as blunt impact injuries correct yes and to be clear blunt impact injuries are a very very large category that includes contusions lacerations abrasions and fractures correct and you testified similarly that a blunt object can also refer to a large range of objects is that right correct and I think yesterday you gave the example of a microphone being a blunt object correct it could also include something like a baseball bat correct a dumbbell could be um the ground yes or a German Shepherd's Clause Clause posibly yes you'd agree that J o'keef had a number of blunt impact injuries on his face on his head and his right arm yes besides his right arm which we'll discuss in a second taking his body from the neck down he did not have any significant injuries from the neck down not significant no let's take those one at a time no injury whatsoever to shoulders correct no injury whatsoever to his chest area aside from sort of the CPR related injuries that you discussed yes correct and that was in the sternum is that right it was in the ribs uh just adjacent to the sternum yes okay no injuries to his torso other than that no no injuries to his back no no injuries to his hips correct no injuries to his pelvis correct no injuries to his thighs to his thighs no no injuries to his knees correct no injuries to his shins correct no injuries to his ankles correct no injuries to his feet correct from the neck down he did not have a single broken bone again aside from those CPR related injuries you discussed correct that's correct not a single fracture other than CPR correct and you sort of spoke earlier about how the bumper was a little higher than on say a regular sedan correct correct and so usually in a pedestrian Collision you would see injuries to the knees is that right jaction oh depending on the kind of car depending on the speed um depending on the height of the individual and the car you might you you might you might see injuries to their lower extremity yeah but in this case you didn't see any injuries to his thighs to pelvis anything even at the the height of the bumper is that correct correct at a very minor abrasion to the uh side of his right knee so surely you'd agree that Jon o keep's injuries or lack thereof are inconsistent with having been struck by a 7,000lb vehicle at 24 miles per hour and being projected 30 ft objection sustained break it down ask would you agree that joho's injuries are or lack thereof are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 miles hour I would say it's likely and unlikely at the same time depending on the position of the body and the um vehicle in question well let me give you a hypothetical let's say the person were standing with their arm like this and they were struck by the rear tail light of a vehicle at 24 miles hour would you agree that his injuries are inconsistent with that scenario jackon Su may we approach your honor sure e you are unmuted would you agree that Jan O's injuries to his arm let's start there are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 miles hour and then causing him to spin around and be projected 30 feet okay so you need to break it down would you agree that Jon O's injury to his arm are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 miles hour I don't know I am not a reconstruction um expert I'm not uh a biomechanics expert um I never uh personally inspected uh the car so I can't offer an opinion on that you did examine Jon O's arm correct yes you observed no significant bruising correct no fractures correct and no broken bones correct I'd like to talk about the injuries to John O's face you testified that Mr ois had a laceration on his right upper eyelid correct you also described multiple abrasions on his nose two yes although these injuries may not have been the ultimate cause of his death you'd agree that less severe injuries can still be very important in interpreting the manner or the context in which that person died correct correct and in furtherance of that you've been taught that when doing an autopsy Details Matter correct no matter how small correct and that's one of the reasons as a medical examiner you have to notate every single injury you find out of person correct if I could show you can I approach honor yes show Miss l [Music] do you recognize that photograph I do and is that a photograph that was taken in connection with your autopsy yes it was taken um at the time of autopsy after the face was cleaned I'm sorry after what the face was cleaned up okay I move to admit your arm any objection Mr L no your okay 65 permission to publish yes are these the facial injuries um that you were testifying to earlier yes and um could you kind of describe in that photograph what injuries you observed in Space the orbital eimos on uh both eyes uh the small laceration uh to the right eyelid the abrasions uh on the nose and you testified that the injuries to his face were also the result of a blunt force trauma correct so that's the the laceration to the eye and the two abrasions that we see there on his nose correct and you agree that those injuries don't just manifest out of nowhere right absolutely um they have to originate from something yes would you agree that his injuries to his face are consistent with having been punched that is a possibility take that down Mr B thank you your internal examination notes also cite a tongue laceration on the right front of the victim's tongue do you recall that yes and youd agree that a tongue laceration can be also caused by blunt force trauma correct and that could also include something like a punch to the victim's face or jaw that's a possibility in addition to the facial injuries you describe that Mr he had a significant laceration on the back of his head he had one laceration to the back of his head correct I believe we saw a photograph of that a little bit earlier you testified that the skin around the laceration on the back of his head was also scratched you Rec that I do but you did not testify as to how you app that might have happened no would you agree that someone could certainly get scratched on the back of their head if they were for instance dragged on the ground it's possible you described the open wound to the back of his head as a laceration which is sort of a blunt force injury that's not the result of sharp force trauma is that right yes um and you'd agree that Mr 's head injury came from some sort of blow to the back of the head whether it be an object or the ground is that right yes jaction and that injury could be the result of falling backward from a standing position onto concrete it's possible it could also be the result of being struck with a large object such as a baseball bat or a barbell it's possible in other words it was an irregular laceration that resulted from some blood force trauma correct I'd like to sort of circle back to those injuries to Mr oie's arm you testified that there were again no fractures no broken bones no significant contusions correct but you did describe the wounds to Mr oi's arm as having discret linear abrasions which were caused by some sort of blunt objects correct yes what does discreet mean it means each one is um an individual injury as opposed to confluent where it would be all meshed together your honor if I could publish what's been previously marked as exhibit 19 okay and these are sort of the linear wounds that you're referring to yes and you testified that these also sort of appear in clusters or groups you call them pattern abrasions is that right yes I did and you'd agree that for example Road Rash does not result in this type of discrete linear wounds it could but not exactly like this well typically Road Rash cover sort of a large area of the skin it would be a large abrasion and you've seen numerous numerous cases of road rash in your career and it doesn't look like that correct blunt force trauma can include injuries from various objects as you testified including an animal claw correct correct and you'd agree that these discrete linear abrasions are inconsistent with having been struck by a smooth rear tail light at 24 miles hour objection can you answer that doctor I can't by a smooth uh no all right next question by a smooth rear tailight you said that is not what you would see at 24 miles hour correct objection sustained as you testified earlier you've indicated that based on the facts that were presented to you you don't know what caused those significant scratches on Mr O's right arm I do not may I appr on sure [Music] if I could just see what was oh I'm sorry do you recognize that photograph I do it's a photograph of Mr 's Right Hand may I Mark that as the next smarter I'm ction may we approach okay e e e you are unmuted [Applause] [Music] thank you your honor thank your honor permission to publish well we need to mark it first so we'll mark it the identification and then when it's appropriate it will be transferred to being an exhibit but thank you but yes you can publish was it all said to be published appropriately yes your honor Tri okay Dr scy you indicated on direct examination that at least that one of the verses from mr's right hand could potentially be attributed um to an attempt to get IV fluid into the hand is that correct correct um during the course of your conducting your autopsy you reviewed records from the Canton Fire Department and EMS as well as Good Samaritan Hospital is that correct I did and do you recall reviewing records indicating that the IV fluids in this particular case were administered through the tibia and then later through a catheter at the hospital yes they were ad ministered through intra oous lines in both legs shins and at the hospital they were um administered through a femoral central line yes and you'd agree that bruisings the backs of hands is also consistent with defensive wounds that's yes that's correct and there are actually four separate distinct bruises outside of the one that you discussed earlier on this right correct yes I would say three but I can see how you would say four one 2 3 uh that might be one together um but yes I can see how you would say for and you testified yesterday that there was also an injury to mr's left hand there was a vague contusion on his left hand correct you were asked by can we take this down now miss yes sir you testified on direct examination that you didn't see any sort of obvious signs of the fight because Mr O's fingernails were intact and you didn't observe any fractures on his hands is that right correct but broken fingernails and fractured hands aren't the only observable F signs of a fight isn't that correct that's correct in fact you noted a laceration over his eye yes you notice multiple lacerations on his nose uh abrasions on his nose yes multiple abrasions on his nose correct um you notice aeration to his tongue yes you noted the contusions on the back of his right hand correct the injury the the contusion to his left hand as well correct and as you just testified bruising on the back of hands may be consistent with defensive BS it could be so in fact if you have a body that presents with El laceration to one of the Brows El laceration or abrasions to the nose an egg over an eye contusions and abrasions on the hands and El laceration to the tongue these injuries are consistent with a physical altercation correct objection sustain are those injuries consistent with a physical altercation objection you honor me we approach sure e you are unmuted shifting gears for a second you indicated on direct examination that you reviewed some photographs um from law enforcement that showed no footprints in the snow do you recall that testimony I do were those provided to you by Trooper Proctor yes do you have those photographs with you no I don't do you recall what was depicted in those photographs yes um if I remember correctly it was the area of the fire hydrant uh and the area where Mr ke's body was uh discovered it's the front of the house um the area of the fire hydrant and I believe the flag pole thank you you testified that Mr o'keef had multiple fractures to his skull um but that they seem to be originating from a single point of impact on the back of his head is that correct it appeared so yes are you reasonably certain that all of his injuries were the result of a single impact to the back of the head it could be a single impact but it also could be multiple impacts correct it could be yes because as you just testified Mr o'keef suffered multiple injuries to the front of his face as well correct in other words he could have suffered a trauma to the face and then fallen and sustain the injury to the back of the head correct that is possible yes and you testified before the state grand jury that the areas of bruising to the brain were likely due to a fall is that correct yes in your Expert Medical opinion is it possible for someone to get punched in the face hard enough to lose Consciousness and fall backward objection all it it's possible I have sure I see the exhibits that were justed [Music] [Music] if I have permission to publish what's been previously admitted as exhibit 19 yes Dr squirell it's kind of hard to see in this picture but there's some redness that you observe on the body by the ribs um that we observed in some of the other photographs that were presented by Mr L we have just [Music] I'd like to show you what's been previously marked as people's exhibit 648 um m g what Mr B could you take that down yeah m g would it be possible to display 648 648 number may I approach yes 285 prce B you were shown this Photograph by Mr L on direct examination yes you see the red sort of um next to his rib cage on the bottom correct yes what is that that is lior lividity lividity yes um can you describe for the jury what lividity is yes lividity is the pulling of blood to the dependent areas of the body after um someone is deceased so even though it sort of appears to look like a bruise that's that's lividity correct that is lividity yes goes all the way down and it's not the result of an injury no thank you no further questions okay the lights please thank you Mr [Music] and Dr Sell you did observe a minor abration to Mr O's right knee is that correct correct and what part of the knee was that on if you recall it was on the side on the lateral side of his right knee and by lateral sort of the side that that faces away from the body is that correct correct we were asked whether or not um the small injuries on Mr he's face uh could possibly be from a punch is that correct correct you said that's one of the possibilities is that correct yes what are some of the other possibili could be impact during a fall it could be coming in contact with any blunt object in the snow uh would glass be a possibility as far as a blunt object it could be under certain circumstances uh piece of plastic uh under certain circumstances as far as a blunt object would that be also a possibility correct yes now as far as the abrasion near the laceration on the back of Mr O you said you were asking questions about whether or not that could be from from Dragon correct correct now as far as injuries or abrasions concerning dragging would it be typical to see just one isolated abrasion in the area of GL eration not typical but possible could that also be a result of the blunt impacts for uh as one of the possibilities you've testified before from hitting the ground yes now you were asked uh about hitting the ground and specifically hitting concrete uh would that impact injuries to the back of Mr O's head also be consistent with striking his head on Frozen Ground sor so I'll allow it can you ref can you repeat the question you were asked a question on Cross examination about uh the glas and abrasion to the back of Mr O's head being consistent with striking his head on concrete correct yes would that also be consistent with striking his head on Frozen Ground could be yes you were asked about certain wounds as being a possibility of a defensive wounds um what are some of the other types of of defensive wounds that you would expect to see that you did not see in this case I would expect to see or I have seen uh multiple bruising um to the again posterior aspects of the forearms um I have seen uh Cuts lacerations um depending on how a person might be defending themselves uh the position of their arms and with that also includes breaks in the fingernails and fractures to the hands watch the form Mr L sustain what if anything else would that in it might include bruising to the knuckles it might include broken um Fingers um now with reference to uh the injuries that you were asked about with respect to Mr O'Keefe's right hand uh would those um also be consistent uh with uh impact from a blunt objects as well they are blunt impact injuries yes now again if I could just with reference to um you were asked about different possibilities with the the skull fractures and bleeding in the brain what is your opinion as to sort of how that was caused and and sort of if you could again just go through um your opinion as to the head injuries of scull for Action week objection ask it again Mr L in a different way you asked about some possibilities what is your opinion as to how those injuries were uh sustained or manifested in Mr I don't know how they came to be I described them and I stated previously that they are consistent with a fall to the back of the head and so I'm sorry Dr my question is is more geared towards as far as the single impacts uh to the back of the skull and then sort of radiating fractures in the skull if you could explain that in reference to the sub hemorr Soo Hemorrhage in the ecosis that you're observing again a single impact with a fall could cause all the injuries that were seen in the brain and the skull thank I'm no further questions all right doctor you are all set thank you very much [Music] [Applause] all right Mr L thank you C off rest all right of the def move court so I'm going to stop you right there a short recess if the court needs one I don't need one but I will see you at cyer e e hey there Karen Reed trial Watchers this is another law crime legal alert have you experienced severe gastroparesis or other side effects after taking OIC or another glp1 weight loss medication the OIC lawsuits alleged that the drug can lead to severe intestinal blockage and persistent vomiting and that manufacturers allegedly failed to provide adequate warnings about these risks well true law one of our legal sponsors is helping those injured file a claim through an experienced attorney who helps ensure your claim is Thoroughly presented just visit www.g lp1 case.com LC live to answer less than 10 questions and check your eligibility to file a claim e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e wee be seated cour the session you are unmuted all right so Mr Jackson yesterday you told me you would like 10 minutes for your argument I'll hear you now thank you your honor I'll be brief um the court must consider after viewing the evidence in light most favorable to the Commonwealth whether a rational jury could find the elements of the charges Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and here the case that the Commonwealth has submitted to the jury after arresting is insufficient to meet such a finding there's no question but that this with this particular prosecution in this particular case no reasonable or rational jury could come to a unan verdict in favor of the Commonwealth I want to if I can focus my argument on count 1 two and three and a specific element of each count okay in each in each one of those counts there must be evidence that the vehicle killed Jon o'keef there has been no competent evidence presented in the Commonwealth's case that Karen Reed's vehicle actually struck J o'keef there's been conjecture there's been speculation but no actual comp competent evidence the Commonwealth's entire case relies on a theory built on the shoulders of a trooper named Joe Paul who testified a couple of days ago and his theory according to the Commonwealth is that j o Keef's arm was struck he was spun around in sort of a pette he was projected 30 feet to the left hit his head on a curb or the road in the intervening intervening time before coming to a final rest spot about 30t away everything in the Commonwealth's case everything relies on that theory that theory of damage to the tail light at the scene if a rational jury could not unanimously determine that Trooper Joe Paul's theory is true Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and we believe the motion has to be granted there is no competent medical evidence to support that theory there's no competent uh physical evidence that the tail light could break and shatter in the way that they've suggested and that the arm would not have any breaks or shatters or any damage any any additional damage Dage there's no evidence how getting hit in the arm could actually launch a body 30t as per the commonwealths theory and there's no evidence how a body hit by a 7,000lb SUV could sustain no injuries from the nck down which we just heard this morning the evidence before the court the only evidence that is before the court uh is that the Commonwealth's own medical examiner does not believe this is a homicide and she went on this morning to say that in her expert opinion the the injuries are not classic pedestrian injuries and they are every single one of them consistent with a physical altercation calling a witness to Simply espouse an opinion like Trooper Paul did um that belies uh science common sense or logic that's not enough to get the case to the jury the light most favorable to the to the Commonwealth does not mean that the court must believe the Commonwealth's Witnesses what it means is that if there is a rational contra rovery in the evidence the court must accept that evidence that favors the Commonwealth but here there is no rational controversy as put or expressed in Commonwealth versus mccormic at it's a 2023 case found at 491 Mass 848 pinpoint site 860 quote where the Commonwealth's evidence is entirely circumstantial it cannot meet its burden if the evidence if the evidence equally supports inconsistent proposition as resolution of such a case necessarily requires conjecture or surmise in our view there is no question that there's no rational controversy related to the commonwealths theory Tri propul theory is by definition not rational it's not reasonable and it's basic based entirely on conjecture and that's why in our view the court is required to find this read not guilty of counts 1 2 and three because each of the counts as I said at the beginning necessarily include an element that joh O'Keefe was struck by Karen Reed's vehicle thus if a rational jury cannot reasonably believe Tru of Paul's Theory it's the only evidence presented by the Commonwealth describing how Mr possibly could have been struck the misre is entitled to an acquittal Nothing Else Matters nothing else in the Court's evaluation nothing else in the jury's evaluation nothing everything turns on whether or not the car hit Jon o ke and the Commonwealth's only theory of how that happened is from chup Paul's description if the court were to deny this motion then by doing so tacitly the court is expressly endorsing trer Paul's theory of how j o was struck and we don't believe that that's rational we don't believe that any rational jury would ever unanimously agree with tup Paul and thus we ask the court to find Miss Reed not guilty at this time okay I'll submit if I may just we have written motion to act on to that arum all right I will hear you Mr ly yes surprisingly I would disagree with council's uh sort of uh so let let's leave the comments out you as far as the the comments All I was going to say is that I don't I would submit to the court is this surprisingly that I took issue and my apies for that what I would submit to the court your honor is that uh this case does not rest in Fall with the testimony of TR Paul TR Paul's testimony uh while important when taken in conjunction with the uh remainder of all of the other Witnesses and all of the other testimony uh that the court has heard uh I don't want to minimize it but at the same time that is not the only evidence uh that the vehicle struck Mr o' for interact with Mr o' uh so what the court has uh as far as the physical evidence next to Mr O's body the one sneaker in the location of the curb uh the glass uh the drinking glass that Mr o'keef is seen walking out of the waterfall bar at approximately 12:11 a.m. with uh that is in the vicinity direct vicinity where the Canton police officer actually recover it early in the morning of January 29th you have the microscopic pieces of the defendant's tail light which was testified uh by Miss uh Hanley to be consistent uh with pieces of the tail light from the defendant's vehicle uh that are within or embedded within uh Mr O's clothing you have uh the remainder of the pieces of tail light uh and this part is important in relation to CH Paul's testimony as far as the linear momentum it's all in the same sort of Direction and path of all of the roadway evidence that he observed that's discovered uh in and around the area where Mr Ro ke's body was um the testimony from Miss valer mixer excuse me uh with reference to all of those tail light pieces and how uh they were able to reconstruct uh from the pieces that were found on the ground uh and then put back together matching I way to that but the tail light housing from the defendant's view the tail light housing from the defendant's vehicle which has the victims uh Mr O'Keefe's DNA contained on it uh as well as uh the mitochondrial DNA testing uh of the hair that was on the rear right quarter panel of uh the defendant's vehicle uh which also was Master consistent with that of Mr O ke's his mitochondrial DNA as well as for herds from M CH from bod technology you have the plethora test from the various civilian Witnesses uh from that particular night you have the evidence of motive from the text Communications uh as well uh as a testimony of the children in this case as to the state of their relationship uh from the defendant's own mouth uh in those text Communications and in those voicemails as to the state of their relationship you have uh the testimony in regard to Mr o'keef uh and uh his recounting of the state of their relationship and his numerous attempts to uh break it off with Miss Reed prior to that that day there are arguments that continue throughout the afternoon of the 28th uh and seemingly into the 29th uh you have the defendant's own statements that I hit him I hit him I hit him that come from multiple sources uh including firefighter nuttle firefighter fatti firefighter mlin and Mr C uh you have her statements to the paramedics in the back of the ambulance that the last time that you saw Mr o'keef uh they had gotten into an argument uh you have the testimony in regard to Miss Roberts and miss as far as the altercation uh or or the the verbal argument stemming from Miss McCabe's reference of Bella's mother uh being a a landmark being someone that Mr o'keef used to date just prior to that argument occurring in front of the house of 34 Fairview wrot with each and every piece of of evidence that was presented throughout the force of the commonwalls case um including the forensic evidence including especially uh one thing I would stress for the court is taking not only Trooper Paul's testimony but Trooper Paul's testimony in Jos to trer Gino's testimony as far as the um vehicle or the native GPS locations of Mr O'Keefe's Phone um in reference uh to the timing and uh in particular the information or data from the Toyota texture trino GPS native location of Mr O's phone has that reversal the same reversal the same three-point turn that you prop testified about which occurs 8 minutes prior to the vehicle traveling 24.2 mph for approximately 62 ft in a straight line in reverse and as far as uh the testimony uh and the evidence that the court has before it the court also has those uh backup um testing uh videos that Trooper Paul conducted with the defendant vehicle so the court can see exactly what that vehicle looks like at approximately 25 mph in Reverse in straight line uh and what I would submit your honor is that there's more than sufficient evidence from a medical perspective from a forensic perspective from a civilian witness perspective and from the investigation uh of this case uh as to all three indictments uh thatal his Medics burden particularly uh under the standard before the court at this time uh and for those reasons I would request that the defendant motion be denied okay right in the light most favorable to the wealth under the prevailing Latimore standard here in Massachusetts I am satisfied the Commonwealth has met its burden the defendants motion is denied so Mr yti are you calling your first witness yes you are okay so let's bring the jurors in please [Music] is for come going go right cour all right the Jer thank you this course back in session please be seated all right so jurors if you remember in my preliminary instructions to you a long time go now uh I stress to you that the burden of proof rest come the defendant has no burden of proof whatsoever doesn't ever have to testify or present any evidence so the Commonwealth has completed its case the Commonwealth has rested uh and I want you to keep in mind that the defendant has no Pro do you have a witness for us thank you very much the defense calls ran okay [Music] the give the court and jury the case hear and the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you go I do thank you [Music] have proceed yes good morning sir in a good loud voice would you state your name and spell your last name sure it's Brian lochran it's l o u g h r a n and where are you from Sir Mr Lock I'm going to ask you to keep your voice up as loud as you can sir sorry that's okay put your mouth as close to the mic as you can um where did you grow up Sir Canton Mass is that where you live yes how long have you lived there uh well 35 36 years and uh did you go to Canton Public Schools yes now in the course of living in Canton were you familiar with the Albert family yes um which members of the Albert family were you familiar with all of them and when you say all of them can you name the ones that uh you were familiar with I was familiar with Brian Brian Albert Chris Albert Brendan Albert Kevin Albert and I believe Kathy Albert is the sister but I'm not 100% sure on her first name okay those are the siblings that uh you had had contact with and were familiar with yes did you know some better than others yes whom did you know the best Chris Albert what is the age difference between you and Chris Albert uh I believe we're the same age did you graduate uh high school with him he went to a different high school but yes graduated at the same time correct and with regard to your familiarity with Chris Albert um can you explain to the jury um how you became familiar with him and what your relationship with him has been uh I went to school with him Elementary School we went to um middle school then he transferred to an uh Catholic School um then later in years I I began to work for Chris for deie pizza delivering pizzas okay and uh what the approximately what ages were you when you were delivering pizzas for d& pizza and Chris Albert I was 25 26 years old and how many years did you deliver pizzas for him uh up until I got married 35 five so several years eight years eight years okay uh and uh with regard to your um interactions or knowledge of Kevin Albert can you describe that uh Kevin Albert would be uh through Deanie pizzer if he came in um through the police department would see him on uh details all right and were you friendly with him yes with regard to Brian Albert could you describe your interactions or your relationship with him again through d& pizzas delivering pizzas to his house uh cordial polite would say hello all right so you're friendly with the Albert family correct now back in January of 2022 uh where were you working I was working for the town of Canton in what department I was working in the suru department is that also called the water department yes water and sewer are combined and under uh what um you know heading is that DPW it's under the DPW the Department of Public Works correct now back in January of 2022 uh were you one of the regular snow plowers for the town of Canton yes and uh directing your attention to uh January 28th of 20 22 do you remember that day yes what do you remember about that day the 28th uh it was uh a potential blizzard we had been given a start time all right when you say You' been given a start time what does that mean it means that we're expected to be in uh our trucks at a certain time on our route okay and uh who gives those instructions back in January of 202 to the supervisor for Canton DPW and who was that at the time William Walsh also known as Billy Walsh yes now when were you called in to do plowing that evening or early morning we were told to be in by 2:30 and is that 2:30 am or pm. am would that now be on January 29th correct uh so uh what time did you arrive at the DP W that early morning about 2:15 when you got there what did you need to do in order to go out plowing I needed to get into my uh truck and get that prepared to go out all right and uh your truck is there one that's specifically assigned to you when you plow yes and does that truck have any particular nickname yes it's called the Franken truck and why is it called the Franken truck it is a truck that has a a lot of different parts than what it's required it's not parts that were made for that specific truck an older one yes it was a truck that was very uncomfortable at the beginning to use so they try to make it as comfortable as possible all right uh and that particular truck is it used for anything else other than snow plowing yes used for everyday use now so you get to the DPW at 25 you say that you get your truck ready what is it that entail to get your truck ready and how how long does it take uh it takes about five minutes but is basically you need to make sure it's got enough gas in it so we're not uh going to the route and running out of uh diesel fuel which is not good it's just basically going over the truck making sure you know you have everything you need for that night and uh do you plow alone or with someone by myself now with regard to the visibility in your snowfl Franken truck can you describe that for the the jury what you can see what you uh so the Franken truck has an air ride suspension an air ride seat so the seat is raised so I can see over the hood and I can see about 5 ft on either side of the passenger the side driver's side and when you say 5 ft are you talking straight out from the from the windshield straight out all right and uh what if any lighting do you have on Franken truck we have um marking lights we have two plow lights that are um situated at the corners of the the trucks and it's up high uh illuminates um very well it it's very well seen okay and with the extra set of lighting that you just described um how far can you see off to the sides in front of you and in and directly in front of you uh probably 5 feet on the sides well you already testified to that 5 feet straight out yeah but what about Bes sides um going forward it's it's you know it's hard to decide to put into words but I can see a a real long distance that uh Vis visibility is fine I you know it is extremely if you gave me probably 5 10t 15t out maybe even further okay uh and with regard to the lighting how how light how much light does that give off enormous amounts it's almost driving with the spotlight and with regard to the air ride seats uh what what action did you take with those that particular night uh I raised it so that the bottom of my knees would hit the steering wheel and what if any instruction obstructions I should say were in front of you that would prevent you from seeing what's in front of you or to the side nothing all right now do you have a specific route assigned to you yes I do could you describe that route and by the way that specific route was that the one that you were signed on January 29th correct could you describe that for the jury yes it's a a route that consists of CED Crest from Kings Road to Chapman Street and everything in between there are a lot of streets uh I could name if you would like but uh Fair View is one Spring Lane is one Ceda Crest uh Kings Road uh those are pretty uh important roads that were I would consider major roads on my route all right now that particular night uh if you got there at 2:15 what time do you think you were on the road by in Franken truck I was on CED Crest about 230 235 now uh with regard to Cedar Crust um I would like to show show you a map if I can may I approach your honor yes I've handed you a document if you could just review that to yourself and then look up at me when you're done do you recognize what's depicted on that yes what is it it is my uh plow route and consisting of streets that I plow all right and to be Fair that's a portion of your plow route right correct there are other areas of the city that you plow this actually depicts my actual physical route oh okay great um and and that's a fair and accurate representation of the the streets as they existed back in January of 2022 yes I would offer that your any objection Mr L no you AR [Music] okay thank you and can I have permission to publish before the sure okay now you just testified that you got to C PR I believe you said 230 to 235 or so correct all right as we look at this exhibit on the screen are you going from right to left or left to right on C when you first approach there uh right to left okay so you're going sort of from the upper right hand corner of the diagram down Cedar Prest toward fair is that accurate yes you take the laser pointer and just confirm that route for the jury that's okay you see that's Fairview Road are you able to read that right uh I I'm not to be honest with you I'm sorry do you still have that map in front of you maybe that'll help you Mr and actually can I uh Orient it so it's oriented just like that for him okay that's how it's up on the screen okay and and by the way um I should have asked this but is it a in terms of the is it you can't read the writing or you can't really see the outline of the streets uh both okay well that's not going to help much okay um if we can have the lights back on um with the Court's permission can I leave that up on the screen while I ask a few more questions sure except you said can't see it right no I know but the jury can so I think we would be helpful for them um all right so you're um you're coming down Cedar Crest and would Fairview be on your left or your right when you first approach it when I first approach it's on my left all right now do you take that left at that no I do not why not at the time I'm pushing snow and we don't want to block any part of the road with snow and taking a left would a left a ren row of snow so I proceed to the end of cedarest do a culdesac and then head back up Ceda Crest all right so there's a CAC at the end of CED correct dead end yes and you plow that yes all right so then when you come back up is Fair View on your right or your left it is on my right what do you do I take that right and continue to plow now um are you familiar with the Albert residence on Fair viiew Road yes how did you become familiar with that uh growing up in Canton I knew where they lived can I have exhibit 66 displ with the Court's permission yes um from where you seated now Mr Walk are you able to see what's on the screen yes and do you recognize that yes what do you recognize that to be that is the Albert house Brian Alberts and when you were passing the Albert home on Fairview the very first time you passed it would it have been on your right or your left it would have been on my right what section of the road were you plowing at that point the middle of the road why is that I I sat in the middle and I angle right with the plow now um I want to direct your attention to when you were uh your your truck was essentially perpendicular to the driveway you see the driveway in exhibit 66 yes I do um when you were perpendicular to the driveway uh where your headlights pointed in front of me in front of the truck I'm sorry in front of the truck and what were you able to see of uh the front lawn of the Albert residence that very first time you passed I was able to see the entire front lawn and about what time was it that you first passed 34 you WR about 245 now as you continued along past the driveway did you continue to have all of those headlights on in front of you yes and as you continued along what were you able to see of that front Laine how much of it uh a very large portion uh almost to the front steps and now when you're plowing uh where is your attention focused sir my attention's focused in front of me and then to the sides why would your attention be focused to the sides uh I am uh trying to be aware of uh any side traffic any pedestrians and God forbid any animals and when you were pass the Albert residents uh as you pass every home uh what attention do you pay to the sides of the road and The Lawns that are adjacent to the road uh I'm again making sure that there are no animals no pedestrians and making sure no one's coming out of their driveways not expecting to see me and with regard to exhibit 66 do you see the flag hole there yes is that something you had seen previously yes and when you made that first pass by that Residence at 2:45 in the morning sir with your headlights on what if anything did you see on the front lawn in the area of the flag pole I saw nothing um if there had been a 6'2 200 lb man lying in the snow there would you have seen it rejection sustain now once you pass the residence uh where do you go I go to the end of uh fair viiew and what street does that intersect that intersects with Chapman Street we have the back up with the Court's permission sure [Music] okay do you still have the exhibit oriented the same way sir yes I do where's Chapman Street on the exhibit down the bottom the top or which down the bottom okay and when you come to the end of fair viiew with Cedar Crest in your rear now right correct um do you take a left or a right on Chapman I take a left all right onto chap once you take that left what do you do I back up and then take a left to go back down Fair View okay so you're essentially doing a almost a three-point turn in the road correct all right so now do you go back down fair viw at that time yes I do and how far do you go down Fairview to the end to CEST now at this point in time you would also pass the Albert residence correct correct would it be on your your right or your left on my left were you looking to the right and the left as you were coming down yes how much light did your headlights illuminate of the Albert's front lawn as you were coming down from chapen Street coming down Chapman just about the entire front lawn and again with regard to that area around the slide pole did you see anything on the lawn nothing see a body no all right now after you've done these two passes sir where do you go I uh then take a right on the Cedar Crest I proceed up uh Spring Lane come down Spring Lane and then do the remaining of my route how long did it take you before you wound up back at cedarest and Fairview about 40 45 minutes so I think you had previously testified you made the first pass around 245 correct so would that put us at about 3:30 when you're about to make the second pass jaction Su stain ask sure I'm sorry uh what time was it your to your best estimate in terms of when you would have approached Fairview and cedarest again 3:15 to 330 all right now when you approach that intersection again are you approaching it such that fair viiew would be on your left or your right this time on my left same same as last time correct what do you do when you approach cedarest I'm sorry when you approach uh fair viiew and it's on your left uh at that point I I have an option I can go to the end of cedarest or I can turn around at a street depending on how much snow I have on Fair View and with regard to the decision you made regarding that choice what decision did you make on January 29th went all the way to the end went all the way to the end of cedris correct same thing you did the first time correct and then you come back up correct uh is fair you on your right or your left at that time it would be on my right and did you take that right yes I did what if anything on usual did you see at that point uh at that point I saw a uh Fort Edge on the side of the road where was it parked on the side of the road in front of the Albert's house where in front of the Albert's house uh by the flag pole and why was that unusual the Alberts never had cars that were parked out front and if it just stuck out as weird now what what are the snow conditions like that point this is now I think you said about 35 to 330 it's it's starting to uh accumulate a lot quicker than what it was previous and what policies does the DPW have regarding par cars parked in the street during a blizzard where there's PL to be done um we are to uh notify the super the uh supervisor at that point he will uh make a phone call to the police and depending on if they can have the resident move it it gets moved if not it gets stowed and with regard to that policy did you comply with that policy in those early morning hours no I did not why because I was being courteous to the Albert family now once you saw the Ford Edge park on the side of the road near that flag pole what did you do I had to go around the vehicle and as to not hit the vehicle all right and uh probably obvious but as you're approaching the vehicle was it uh uh faced in the same direction that you were traveling yes uh and so you're going around to the left or the right of the vehicle left and once as you were approaching that vehicle were you able to see on the right side of that vehicle but the lawn side yes um did you see any uh anything on the front lawn at that time jaction I'll allow it did you see anything no lights were still on correct all right now once you pass the vehicle did anything attract your attention at all no all right where do you go I go up to the end of uh fair viiew and do the same process take a left on his uh Chapman and back down Chapman and take a left into Fairview again once you come back down Fairview do you pass the Alber residence again correct um was your uh that car that you saw it moved from when you passed it the first time no um were you able to see the front lawn of the Alberts in front of you um as you were coming down Fairview for CEST not as much as the first time because the car blocked the view all right now after that how long did it take you before you came back to that area to plow again about 3 hours do you recall about what time it was that you uh wound up back on Fairview uh I I don't honestly recall what specific time sure um approximately if it was 3:15 to 3:30 that second time how uh what would be your best estimate of the time when you came back uh I would say I if I had to say it would been 5:30 up Fair View and came came back down and then at that point I wasn't able to come uh go further than Carriage Lane okay and um when you say that you went up Fairview and came back down you initially went from which side of Fairview right side um what would that be the right side I'm sorry uh would it be the cedarest side or the it would been CED Crest side coming from CED Crest and then you went up Fairview came back down came back down as I'm going up I am actually seeing uh First Responders and at that point as I'm coming back down the road's blocked at that point okay um and when the road was blocked what if any plowing were you able to do after that on fairw I was able to go as far as Carriage Lane and then turn around okay and uh then I imagine it was several hours before you could plow again yeah before I could plow fair viiew to the end of CED yes all right now I'd like to direct your attention to February 15th of 20122 um were you approached by an investigator who wanted to ask you questions about what you had seen and done on January 29th of 2022 yes do you remember his name yes what what is it Paul and what was your understanding about uh whom Paul worked for Jackson ask it differently um on February 15th of 2022 will you ever approach by anybody in law enforcement sir no so what was your understanding of Paul Paul's job objection I see Council t e e you are unmuted just a couple questions Mr lockran sure um at any point in 2022 were you ever approached by any police investigators sir no when was the first time that you were approached by the state police in this case do you recall I don't recall the actual date but I do know Year yes what year was that uh 2023 and do you recall the name of the investigator that approached you um Mike Mike Proctor and Sant and I can't pronounce his name I don't want to if I said bu Ken would that yes it is I have nothing further thank you sir okay Mr L thank you morning sir good morning may I approach yes [Music] sir I'm showing you document that's already been marked in 109 just ask you to look at that look up whenever you're finished okay yes you recognize that sir yes I do and what do you recognize that to be these are the plow routes for the town of Canton and there's different numbers that are associated with different routes and different drivers assigned to those routes is that right yes and if you look down at number 11 is that your route that you were talking about as far as uh the sort of portion of CED Crest neighborhood that you plow yes and that's the route that you were assigned to on uh January 28th and January 29th of 2022 correct yes now if I could ask just as far as uh there's a certain way that you plow A rad uh a room yeah excuse me there's a certain way that you plow a road correct correct and when you're first plowing the road you're sort of plowing the middle of the road correct correct and you do it in sort of a fashion uh that's referred to as Ring Road right is that correct yes can you explain to the jury what that is and sort of why you're plowing a road in that particular fashion when you're first starting to get out there with the plow so ring row to the right refers to the snow coming off the plow it actually leaves a row of snow we Ren row to the right to prevent cars from having to go through the ren row to the left if you go to the left you've now put the ren Row in the middle of the last the in Lane so everything's to the right so everything's to the right because if there was a vehicle coming the other way you'd be plowing into that vehicle is that correct correct and your goal sort of when you're first getting out there to plow the roads is to sort of clear the middle of the roadway first correct correct so that's where your truck is when you first go out and plow the road is you're sort of in the middle of the road near the the dou yell line if there is one on that road correct okay now this truck uh that you were driving this truck uh that you were driving on that day how long have you been assigned to that truck for plowing purposes I was assigned to that truck for probably two years maybe longer maybe longer were you driving that same truck in 2015 no no okay so you driving a different truck at that point correct you remember what kind of truck that was it was an F550 utility truck pickup truck similar in size or shape to the truck that you were driving that day no now you were asking questions about February 15 2022 when you spoke to uh some investigator on that day correct February 15 yes 202 that Paul person you were talking yes okay and you met him uh at a skating ring is that right correct and you said in a statement to him at that time that you would have seen a body on the front lawn or the sidewalk is that right correct now you're are you aware that there is no sidewalk on the same side of the street as 34 Fairview Road correct now you mentioned some familiarity with the Alberts and with the Albert resident are there are other people on that route that you're familiar with as far as where they live and who they are and all that yes and how are you equally familiar with them more familiar with them or less familiar with them equally equally now familiarity with 34 Fairview roads does that extend to sort of the lighting around that area no so do you know that there is actually no Street lighting whatsoever in the area of the fire hydr and the flag pole or anywhere there for several hundred feet correct you do know I I yeah for the I believe so yes and so when you're driving by you're looking for cars coming out of the driveway cars coming in the opposite direction uh people walking is that correct correct and you're trying to look for those objects so that you make sure that you don't strike them or hit them or anything like that correct correct and on February 15 2022 when you had this meeting with Paul you told him about 3:30 or 4:00 a.m. uh is when you uh saw this uh Fort Edge uh on Cedars correct correct now in fact when you first spoke to this indiv individual named Paul you didn't tell him it was a fort Edge correct no told him it was Fort Edge you didn't tell him first that it was a small SUV no told him it was Fort Edge do you remember at any time Paul taking you out on the parking lot and showing you different vehicles and asking you if those Vehicles matched what what vehicle you saw no he he wanted to make sure that what I was telling him was accurate so he showed me what was a Ford Edge but I had already told him it was a Ford Edge so we brought you out to the parking L parking lot at the skating rink that you were meeting at specifically showed you a Ford Edge and asked you if that was a view correct now do you know sort of the difference between if you were to see a fort Edge at night time in a snowstorm uh the difference between a fort edge and a Jeep Cherokee yes what's the difference the tail lights in the back what about it for uh Edge is a more round the the the whole back facade is a little bit more round a Jeep Cherokee or more Square now what color was this SUV that's come I can't tell you that I I am color blind can you tell and I don't I'm just curious or as far as your color blindness can you tell whether or not an object is dark or light just by looking at it you I can see things that are light I can see things that are dark I can see true colors I can't see shades of true colors and so from what you saw was this light or dark light now you told uh this Paul individual on February 15th that the SUV that you saw was exactly where uh Mr O's body was found correct correct how do you know where his body was found I told him specifically if he was looking at the door the front door it was about 3 feet to the left of the door and with to the left of the door looking at the front of the door to the left of the door pushing it up Fair View so if he wrote in his report that you told him that the the vehicle was exactly where the body was found that would not be true objection no I'll allow that could you repeat that question please if he wrote in his report that you told him that the SUV was exactly where the body was found that would not be true would it would it not that would be true the car the car was to the left of the door putting it in front of the flag pole my question for you sir is how do you know where Mr oi's body was found at any point time did you see Mr oi's body on the front lawn no so how do you know where Mr oi's body was through police reports police interviews stuff that was post posted on on um the media you've seen police reports in the media well not the police reports I'm sorry but what was said during in uh on the news so what you've heard on the news not necessarily what you saw what you know yourself correct could you repeat that question please you're recounting sort of what you've heard or saw in the news so this doesn't come from your personal knowledge or anything about where Mr o'keef was correct correct okay now you also uh spoke with some other uh individuals in May of 2023 correct correct now did you tell those individuals that you actually came in and and when you say came in you come into sort of the the main sort of hboard or the shed in on Boulevard Street correct correct we punch in that's where you punch in and you pick up your truck and you sort of do your your checkpoint around the truck and then you go out and plow correct now you were plowing on this streets uh is was there any other sort of subcontractor or anything else that was working plowing the roads as well yes and who was that it was um it was um by The Yards landscaping and so they assist as far as the plow route is concerned and and they go around and they plow things on the same route that you were describing correct correct now these other people that you Ted to in May of 2023 did you tell them uh at that time that you actually came in around 11:30 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. I don't remember that you don't remember that or you didn't tell me I don't remember that so that would be a significant difference 11:30 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. from 2:15 a.m. and 2:30 a.m. correct correct now you also indicated to them at that time that you went past Fairview at approximately 12:00 a. and 2 am. correct I never did 12 but it was definitely 230 240 235 would be inaccurate as well correct sustained and only one person can talk at a time I I'm sorry sir please continue and finish your answer I didn't hear the question okay well let me ask it again so as far as um if that was contained within a report regarding that conversation in May of 2023 that you went past Fairview Road went down Fairview Road at 12:00 a.m. and 2 a.m. that would not be accurate correct OB sustained as a differently did you go down Fairview Road at 12:00 a.m. and 2 a no if that were contained in a report of your conversation you had in May of 2023 would that be accurate OB sustained ask it differently Mr Val now as far as that conversation that you had in May of 2023 did you tell those individuals that you saw the vehicle around 1:30 or 2 in the morning again I don't remember ever saying that is that accurate as far as whether or not you told them that again I don't remember saying that did you see a vehicle around 132 o00 in the morning I wasn't on the road at 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning correct now do you also recall telling uh those individuals uh that uh Fairview Road was blocked off by cruisers at about 3 or 3:30 in the the morning again that would have been incorrect you recall saying that in May of 2023 I do not may I approach AR yes [Music] show C thank you so I'm going to ask you to read join to a do I'm going to ask you to read this paragraph This paragraph This paragraph to yourself okay and then whenever you're done for are you finished sir yes I approaches retri [Music] yes Mr L after having reviewed that as your memory refresh as that as to that conversation you had in May of 2023 no it does not so you still after reading that don't recall telling uh anybody in May of 2023 that uh you came in around 11:30 p.m. 12:00 a.m. on the 28th 29th I never came in at 11:30 12:30 at night it was 2:30 calling youal call indicating it's any1 May of 2023 that went past Fairview at 12:00 a.m. and 2 a.m. correct never did and you don't recall telling anyone that you saw the car around 1:30 or 2 a.m. is that correct correct can youal call telling anybody that uh the heart of Fairview containing before Fairview was blocked off at 3:00 or 3:30 a.m. correct correct now if the part of Fairview um that you were talking about so you didn't say that in May of 2023 because at 3 or 3:30 the roadway wasn't blocked off correct correct it was blocked off sometime around 6:00 a.m. correct correct and so if you had said that the roadway was blocked off at 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning and it was actually 6 then when when you saw the vehicle would have been off a little bit as well correct objection sustained seeing the car at 1:32 in the morning um with the road being blocked off at locked off excuse me at 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning if the road's blocked off at 6:00 a.m. then that actually would have been you saw a car sometime around 5 correct objection Su sure you didn't see a black Lexus SUV in front of the house at 34 Fairview Road around 5: a.m. no now you also uh were asked some questions and you spoke to some Troopers in August of 2023 correct correct and count of Canon they have a parking ban in Canon is that correct correct that goes from November until April correct now part of your plow route is a is a road called Tippy cart correct correct where is Tippy cart in relation to uh to Fair it is on top of of it it's on the right side of Cedar Crest it would put it two streets before Fair View and at some point when you were plowing on Tippy card that night you actually hit a basketball is that right yes and did you call that in yes and as a result of that what did what what happened with the basketball hoop after that nothing it the the point was to make sure I was covered basically it's why I notifi my supervisor that I I hit the basketball hoop about what time was that did you basketball hoop I don't recall closer to when he started closer to when he ended I I don't recall I don't recall what time so you don't recall anything specific about that time frame correct no just that I know I hit the basketball net and obviously and I'm not trying to to put words in your mouth or anything sir but you didn't intentionally hit the basketball ho correct correct so you hit it because you didn't see correct no I I was attempting to avoid the that by going around it and the Machine had a different size body than what it originally had and I I underestimated when I was going around that I need to be wider so you misjudge the distance is that fair to say yes very approach on okay e e e e e you are unmuted [Music] sir at some point prior to uh coming in here and testifying today have you met with Mr unti yes how many times twice and when were those times Tuesday and Saturday Tuesday and Saturday when sir Tuesday of last week Saturday of last week and this Paul person that you spoke up before was that person present there as well yes and uh did you make note of Paul writing anything down or Mr yti writing anything down while you were uh talking to them no And as far as you're aware there's no reports that were generated from any of those conversations or any of those meetings is that correct correct sir I'm correct and if I say that you're sure about every time that you went down Fairview Road and everything that you saw going down Fairview Road U but you're completely unaware of the time that you uh ran into and struck a basketball hoop that night is that correct objection sustained you can ask it differently you sure about all the times that you went down Fairview roope yes and you have no idea what time that you went on Tippy cart and you struck the basketball hoop is that right if you ask me to guess I can guess for you I'm not asking you to guess I'm asking I don't I don't recall exactly what time I hit that net nothing further right anything Miss T there's just one question I want to make sure that we understand what's going on so no statements right just ask a question I always do that I apologize um you were asked a question by Mr L are you sure you didn't see a black Lexus at around 5:00 a.m. in front of fair viiew and your answer was no and my question to you is does that mean that you're not sure if you saw one or that you didn't see objection I'll allow that I did not see a Lexus at 5 a.m. uh at any point that night while you were plowing no see a black Lexus in front of 34 no thank you sir very briefly based on your timeline were you on Fairview Road at 5:00 a.m. yes how so sir uh it was about 3 hours after the last time I went on it so it put me I it's the last on it about quarter or 4 about 5:30 you're on the road about 2:45 and we said it took you about 45 minutes to sort of do the loop and come back correct correct and um from the time that you were on there including the time that it took you to plow and the time that it took you to to do all of those things along the Route you're coming back to Fairview Road at 45 minutes later or it took you 45 minutes to do the route it was about 45 minutes and so from there 45 minutes from what time are we talking that you were first there is that about 245 or so uh about 3:30 with 3:30 okay so about 3 hours after that would then be about 6:30 correct it was about I mean I know I went up there and saw the First Responders coming down and when I what I'm asking is you would testify that you may or you were on Fair viiew Road around 5:00 a.m. if you're not returning for 3 hours later and that's about 6:30 from 3:30 correct correct so then you were not on Fair VI Road at 5:00 a.m. correct I was the time that it took me to do what I needed to do put me there about five so when I'm coming down cedarest from doing my route I am constantly looking at fair viiew to make sure that is considered a main road so we need to take that as a priority so if it's a lot of snow on that road I am going to go turn around and do the road so that the road is available so First Responders had access to that road so sir what I'm saying is you testified your timeline that you came down there around 6:30 in the morning correct my timeline was 5:30 so 3 hours 3:30 it was 45 minutes no 45 minutes was from 2:45 to get you to 3:30 then 3 hours later at 6 correct it was about 45 minutes cuz I didn't get a lot of time at that time the snow was coming down at a significant rate and I needed to make sure fair viiew was kept clear so I come down and I check so I have my my the streets are all around Fairview they're 5 10 minutes around Fairview so the furthest street from Fairview is Kings Road so my question is are you talking about coming down Fairview or you're talking about being on another road and looking at Fairview coming down SE CR looking at Fairview despite that timeline that you gave her I am always looking at that street nothing all right Mr lockran you are all set sir thank you ask Dr Russell to us okay okay it's what why just step F [Music] me the of the court and jury the case he the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you I do thank you take all right whenever you're ready Mr Jackson thank you honor Dr Russell uh could you please in a loud clear voice state your name and spell your last name for hi uh Dr Marie Russell R U SS e l l Dr what do you do for living uh I'm emergency room forensic pathologist just recently retired and prior to retirement what was your position the immediate uh position um just recent um before retirement was a chief medical executive at the uh for the State of California the cauan state prison so Dr Russell I'm goingon to ask you to keep your voice up okay yes TR thank you thank you there's a couple of air conditioners in here just keep your voices loud as possible um what is in fact a an Emergency Physician an Emergency Physician is a medical specialist who has uh completed a a residency intern well internship residency uh residency in uh the field of emergency medicine which is a field which uh involves taking care of a patients that are sick or injured and go to the emergency room can you tell us what your education starting with your education your education training and background is it qualifies you as an Emergency Physician starting with your education all the way back to College okay uh well I have completed uh at least 16 years of formal education Beyond High School uh which includes a college and then four years of medical school then four years of emergency Medicine Residency and internship and then four years of pathology uh residency which includes 2 years of anatomic and 2 years of forensic pathology and um and then I treated uh I I excuse me I've taken a bunch of of other courses and attended seminars let's start with your college where'd you go to college where'd you start okay MIT I did my first year at MIT where I took my Premed courses and then what happened after that by the way about what year was that oh that was in 1972 to 73 where did you go after so what H what H I was interested in becoming a doctor and and so I took the Premed courses and um and then uh subsequent to that first year I learned that my mother uh had metastatic breast cancer and so I decided to go home to New York to be with her uh after that um well she subsequently passed away and uh I went I returned to Massachusetts and decided to uh take advantage of the time off from school to investigate my interest in law enforcement and I subsequently became a police officer here in Massachusetts uh so following MIT did you go to a police academy I did which Police Academy did you go to I went to the Boston Police Academy and did you end up becoming a sworn officer yes for how long I did for seven years full-time and what department did you work for I worked for the city of Malden Police Department what years were the were was that if you can give me a Range uh from 1977 to 1984 during the time that you were a malen police officer did you also go to school and continue your formal education I did describe that for please well I I took I took specialized courses through the uh Massachusetts criminal justice training Council jaction move to strike all right so I'm going to strike that jurs District SC that let me ask you this way uh I don't want to get into the specifics okay did after while you were a police officer did you also take formal education to further your medical training or your college yes I did that's what I'm interested in okay tell us about that oh yeah so I attended Northeastern University uh uh part-time and received a Bachelor of Science degree in in Psychology after you got your degree in Psychology from nor Eastern did you go want to continue your education in medicine I did I attended medical school at the University of Massachusetts Medical School from 1983 to 1987 also known as UMass yes did you ultimately end up with a medical did you became a doctor did you engage in a residency yes what years were The Residency that first residency so the first residency was from 1987 to 1991 and that was in uh Los Angeles at the Los Angeles County uh University of Southern California medical center is that also known as La USC it was at the time yes and that's associated with the University of Southern California medical center is that right yes after your first residency by the way what was your first residency in what was the sub specialty so it was in emergency medicine and uh USC is a a very large Trauma Center how would you describe the size and volume of the USC Trauma Center well um it's one of the busiest in the United States after your first residency in emergency medicine did you do a second residency yes what was the sub specialty in that second residency so I did a a two years in anatomic pathology and two years uh as a fellow as a fellow in forensic pathology at the Los Angeles County cor's office so you did two full residencies as a after you became a doctor is that right that is correct what's the difference I don't want to go into great detail but what's the difference between an Emergency Physician and for instance for instance The Residency that you did in pathology both anatomic pathology and forensic pathology what are the differences well generally the Emergency Physician treats live patients and and um and and the the spectrum of you know uh injuries can can be wide or or illnesses can be wide and the forensic pathologist treats or deals with deceased patients generally did you become a fellow at the LA corers office following your second residency no that was part of the second residency understood describe that that Fellowship so that was 2 years of full-time work work at the LA car's office under the um supervision of a very experienced uh medical examiners and what I did was I did autopsies you know every day uh one or two autopsies every day attended conferences and um read Journal articles Etc it was a very formalized education did you also become at some point a professor or an assistant professor at La USC the medical center side University side yes so while I was doing the forensic pathology and anatomic pathology residencies during the daytime I worked as the a full-time ER doc supervisor in the capacity of an assistant professor in the evenings did you also become an Adjunct professor at Cal State Los Angeles California state Los Angeles yes that a separate University yes and you had separate responsibilities as a professor in that role yes were you also teaching legal medicine and forensic medicine in that capacity that is correct it was a master's level program how long were you an ER physician in total and an attending physician for Los Angeles County USC Medical Center 29 years in total four of those were in training and the rest were as in supervisor and of your 29 years 25 of your 29 years you were supervising others correct meaning other doctors other doctors yes teaching other doctors yes and teaching medical students yes and and seeing seeing their cases once they examine the patient they would present their case or tell me about the case and then I would go in and see those patients in addition to my patients that was my next question doctor in addition to teaching were you also specifically assessing diagnosing treating patients of your own yes not not all not all the time some some shifts I didn't have to do that but most but much much of the time yes for the bulk of the 29 years that you were an ER doc an Emergency Physician in other words were you also attending the to patients as well yes um once you left that fellowship with the LA Corner's office did you remain active in any way or connected to the Los Angeles corers office yes so I uh would attend their uh weekly conferences uh when I could when uh when I you know when I was available and uh to do so and um I also consulted on some cases with them so if they had something uh that was uh interesting and and beyond their clinical expertise they would uh sometimes consult me during your tenure at La USC did you become the director of any of their subprograms yes can you describe that for the jurors please yes I was a director of uh the um USC uh Center for life support training so with and uh that involved teaching other doctors life support courses such as advanced cardiac life support or that we teach the surgeons Advanced Trauma Life Support I'm sorry well go ahead were you also a director for their quality improvement in the early 2000s yes for the emergency medicine Department what was the reason for the quality improvement uh program if you will for L USC well for any uh program it's ideal to have a quality improvement uh component because what you want to do is look at uh cases that would are treated and see if there were any errors and if so correct the errors teach the doctors that involved you know what went wrong and try to make uh systemic improvements or teach teach um teaching improvements to uh prevent those errors from occurring in the future were you teaching basically best practices for Emergency Room Physicians as well as trauma Physicians and surgeons yes we tried and you were the director of that program correct yes did you also become the director of La USC jail Medical Services yes what is the connection or the tether between the jail system in Los Angeles and La USC Medical Center well Lac jail Ward was um established about 70 years ago and it was a place that the uh officers from various agencies such as La sheriffs LA PD um California Highway Patrol or any of the municipalities around could bring uh people that they arrested who were in need of medical care so the the jail system very large jail system I'm guessing in uh in Los Angeles correct correct yes U there have to be medical attendance to that jail system correct yes and you became the director of the jail medical services for the entirety of that system for the hospital component of it understood the in California there is you're obviously licensed in California yes there is a State Medical Board in California correct yes and did you ever do any work with that State Medical Board yes I worked with them for about 7 years part-time as a regular employee uh in in um embedded in their enforcement unit and what that involved was examining cases that were referred to the Medical Board of because of substandard care or illegal uh activities of the provide of practitioners providers it was for Physicians and physician assistance that we uh regulated what was your title uh with the State Medical Board for that per for those purposes the title was medical excuse me medical consultant that was the official title okay uh and then before your retirement by the way what years were you the medical consultant for or a medical consultant for the State Board uh in California I um I think from 2009 to 2016 I think those were the years I'm I'm not positive right uh I did that that was a a job I was doing one I was doing the um LA County USC medical centor job too it was a an extra job so you didn't you didn't uh sto working as a physician an ER an Emergency Physician at La USC to take that position no you just consulted with them I I did it once a week one day a week got it uh and then with regard to the uh your one of your last uh positions that you held did you become the chief medical executive for the California State Prison corkran yes tell me about that position and the years that you held that position so that was from 2018 to 2023 and um as the chief medical executive I was um the supervisor of all the doctors and uh nurse practitioners that provided care to the inmates and obviously the California prison system is a very large prison system very um Dr are you board certified in emergency medicine yes are you a member of the National Association of medical examiners yes I'm actually fellow status Which is higher than member are you a member of the American Academy of forensic science yes again I'm a fellow there which also is an advancement above just being a member correct have you ever published in the area and now I'm going to get very specific have you ever ever published peer reviewed articles uh and done research in the area of animal bites and scratches yes did you author or co- author a peer-reviewed article named managing law enforcement dog bites in the ER yes about what year was that it was in the 1990s late 1990s 1996 does that sound right did you also author or co-author an article called law enforcement K9 dog bites injuries complications and Trends yes so given those articles did you study specifically dog bites dog wounds on the human body yes I have a very strong interest in wounds in general and I have a strong interest in uh dog bites in particular during the course of your uh career your professional experience how many patients would you say you've seen or treated with animal injuries including bites and scratches there very hard to estimate but between my my own practice and uh the residence that I supervised it was I'm sure well over 500 and and could possibly be double that could be up as many as a thousand it could be yes uh have you qualified as as an expert in emergency medicine in the past yes you qualified as an expert in the area of forensic pathology and wounds in the past yes is that both in federal and state courts yes Dr will you you asked to review certain materials related to this case in furtherance of coming to some opinions and conclusions about injuries suffered by John oef specific to his right arm yes what did you review in coming to your opinions and conclusions well I reviewed hospital records and hos and pictures taken uh of him uh in from in the hospital when he was in the hospital I reviewed uh autopsy records autopsy report and a and photographs taken uh during and before the autopsy uh I reviewed uh let's see I reviewed um the grand I revie reviewed the grand jury testimony of the autopsy pathologist uh I reviewed Affidavit of Dr Sheridan I reviewed the uh town of Canton a dog bite reports about uh regarding incidents uh section may we approach yes e e hey there Karen Reed trial Watchers this is another law crime legal alert have you experien severe gastroparesis or other side effects after taking OIC or another glp1 weight loss medication the OIC lawsuits alleg that the drug can lead to severe intestinal block and persistent vomiting and that manufacturers allegedly failed to provide adequate warnings about these risks well true law one of our legal sponsors is helping those injured file a claim through an experienced attorney who helps ensure your claim is Thoroughly presented just visit www.g lp1 case.com LC live to answer less than 10 questions and check your eligibility to file a claim e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] this I course back in session please be seated so the Comm objection is overruled you can continue doctor uh you've listed several items that you reviewed and coming to your opinions and conclusions did you also review a toxicological report yes and a neurology report uh neuropathology report yes as well from the Comm yes the based on your review of all of those materials I don't want to know what your opinion or conclusion is yet but were you able to come to an opinion or conclusion concerning the injuries specifically to John O's arm yes or his right arm were there any documents in furtherance of your review from UC Davis yes did you review those as well action sustained um with the course may we display exhibit 19 okay doct I want to show you a photograph uh and ask you very quickly have you seen this before yes is this one of a number of photographs that you reviewed in furtherance of your evaluation of this case yes it is I'd like to just focus your attention on this for just a quick second and ask you does this accurately reflect the wounds or injuries that you saw on joh right arm in coming to your opinions and conclusions yes it it reflects the injuries that I saw in photographs all right now based on your review review of all of the data that you've talked about all of the information that you were given and reviewed what is your opinion or conclusion about how these injuries were sustained I believe that these injuries were sustained by an animal um possibly a large dog because of the pattern of the injuries could you describe for the jurors please on what you base that opinion yes well there's may I use the sure okay thank you there's a number of patterns here there uh on the upper part of the arm uh there's parallel lines uh and those were inflicted by either uh teeth or claw Mark so there's a a number of patterns that H uh could be teeth or claw Mark and so this is one set right here this is this is the the one further down closer to the Elbow is another set of parallel marks again probably most likely from teeth marks and the reason I say that is in addition to the parallel marks uh up here down here there's also little punctate incomplete puncture Marks here U little round little round marks right there that were uh inflicted by the actual point of the tooth okay that was my question what relevance does that have to your determination that this was likely caused by an animal yes and and I can explain in a moment the various kinds of wounds that animals can inflict but but uh going on with the picture first so then down right at the elbow there's another series different series of marks that again uh have linear abrasions up uh where the pointer is and then down below some punctate superficial round small abrasions again representing uh upper and lower teeth in my opinion and then there are some irregular wounds down just below the elbow and these are all by the way on the exterior surface or what we call the Post what doctors would call the posterior surface of the arm which is the part of the arm that would sustain defensive type wounds so if someone were to protect themselves jection so sustain next question sure uh doctor if I can ask another question just to clear up what you said a little earlier about something wounds on the close to the Elbow is it is it your opinion that both the top teeth and bottom teeth could have created some or all of the injuries on that elbow area yes okay so in other words instead of the mouth going all the way around the arm it could have the top and bottom jaw could have situated itself on the this portion that we're seeing the the uh the posterior the arm yes um and in this case the animal did not get a good enough contact jaction move the strike so I I'm going to strike that ask a different question have you seen contact wounds where the animal a dog for instance gets a very solid purchase on the leg arm part of the body yes okay is that this or is this something else something else describe that well when an animal inflicts uh injuries the type of injury depends on in part on the actual type of contact and how much force is applied by that animal in addition to any relative movement between the animal and the victim in this case so um for instance in the law enforcement dog bites um many of Jackson right so the nature is it notice is it what's one word may we approach okay e e e you are unmuted May yes thank you without getting into any specifics about police canines okay does this appear does a pattern of injuries that you see appear consistent with an animal or a large dog yes um does the number of injuries that you see here relegated to just the right arm is that also consistent with an animal or large dog yes it can be is the direction of the injuries uh or the consistency of the direction of the injuries the parallel injuries is that also consistent with an animal or large dog attack yes based on everything that we've discussed today Dr is it your opinion based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty that these injuries were from an animal attack possibly large do yes I have a moment yes that's all I have okay may we approach okay e you are unmuted John sure uh good afternoon M good afternoon sir now testify that you're certified in emergency medicine is that correct that is correct and you're not nor were you ever certified in forensic medicine is that correct that is correcty correct and when was the last time that you worked at a coroner's office 1995 in in terms of doing autopsies now when was it that you first uh spoke to uh anyone from a defense Council in regard to your coming in here and testifying uh today May 17th doctor I am going to ask you to keep your voice up Sor thank you May 17th 2024 May 17th of this year is that right 2024 so about 6 weeks after this trial began I don't know when the trial began now as far as um who reached out to who I reached out to a district attorney that I worked with in uh with the LA coroner's office and then somehow that person put you in touch with Mr Jackson is that right yes and was that also on May 17th 17th and 18th yes and so I'm sorry 17th or the 18th which which one was it that you spoke with Mr Jackson I didn't speak to him you did not speak to him not speaking not verbal there was some email communication or text communication you communicated with him was that the 17th or the 18th yes both I think both okay and uh when did you render this opinion as far as what you've testified to here today surely after he sent me the files now in regards to those files you testified in this court a couple days ago correct I did and you were under oath at that point is that correct excuse me you were under oath at that point is that cor yes okay and when you were asked specifically what materials uh that you had reviewed um you included a number of items but you did not include uh anything about a Dr Sheridan affidavit anything about a UC Davis report or anything about uh any sort of bite history for uh K9 that lived or resided at 34 Fairview Road correct that's correct because I hadn't reviewed them then and so since then two days ago now you've reviewed them correct yes I I became aware that those files existed yes you became aware of those files were they not sent to you previously no I think there were technical difficulties regarding me and the computer and and downloading from Dropbox and and so yeah so they they were I think they were sent to me but I think I did open them now with reference to these technical difficulties did you ever express any of those technical difficulties or hey I can't see the whole file or there's other things in here that are listed that I can't look at no I wasn't aware and so with regard to uh as far as you're reaching out or contact uh in in regard to this case how did that come about okay I saw an article I believe it was in the Boston Globe regarding this case and I didn't you initially I didn't think anything of it then I saw uh an article that indicated that there was some asking you anything about anything any article indicated you saw an article in the Boston Globe about this case is that right yes and how did you come upon you have a subscription to the Boston glove I did at the time yes did at the time what time was this in in May May of 2024 yes and how long had you had a subscription to the Boston Globe at the time that you saw this was either a six-month subscription or a year I don't remember that was the first time that you had seen anything about that first time I paid attention to anything like that yes now again you had testified here just a couple of days ago when I asked you questions about this is that right yes it wasn't in your testimony just a couple of days ago that the subscription was actually for a year or 18 months you remember not 6 months a year so only one person can talk at a time so was that your testimony doctor no I don't believe so I I believe that it that I said it was a 6mon subscription or a 12- month subscription then any event you saw something is that that's the first time that you recall seeing anything in the media about this case was in May of 2024 it was the first time that I recall reading anything about it correct now did you write a report in regard to your opinions that you've testified here today no and I asked you that a couple days ago as well yes okay so in the last couple days you've had time to review a UC Davis report Dr Sheridan's affidavit and uh and any sort of dog bite history but you haven't had a chance to write a report projection sustain to that form you haven't written a report correct that's correct why not I haven't been asked to write a report sir now did you ever look at anything related to Mr O'Keefe's head injury I looked at [Music] sustained yes e e e e e you are [Music] unmuted have a moment turn yes now doctor you testified that you had some familiarity with areas of forensic science you're on some boards things of that nature is that correct yes and uh as a result of that or or any other work experience you're familiar with a uh Nas report from 2008 uh not with that limited information no on aware of a report issued by the National Association of for science in 2008 uh which specifically has a section dealing with so I'm going to see you both at sidebar again you are unmuted [Applause] so manam you're not familiar with that uh report specifically as it applies to forensic onology so could you say that again Mr L what's the report the National Academy of Sciences 2008 report in relation to the section referring to forensic odontology I'm not uh uh familiar with that specific report no so then you equally unfamiliar uh with uh the representation that that is not a from the nas report that that is not a reliable science as far as bite marks are concerned there there are certain aspects of bite marks that have been deemed not reliable and that and that I believe has to do with saying that this particular person or animal uh inflicted this particular bite but that's that's very specific and that's what I'm aware of that that um recommendation you're not aware of any uh findings in in the nas report that has led to questioning of the value and scientific objectivity of such evidence specifically identifying a bite mark to u to a individual that might have inflicted the bite Mark um I think that's what that applies to okay I'm not ask again this is a report are you familiar with it or are you not I'm familiar with a summary or a abstract of a report that indicates that forensic or onology is not um very is is deemed not reliable when it comes to that particular narrow aspect of forensic onology and so you're not familiar with it also talking about sample data and collection uh analyses of these interpretation and reporting of results you're not familiar with those areas of the NS report as well what specifically do you have a specific U question about that or first question was whether or not you're familiar with the report you indicated that you w i I did not read the report Mr L let the witness answer one question at a time one speaker at a time doctor can you answer that question sure I did not read that report okay now you had uh written some some articles uh that you were asked about uh in reference to uh dog bites or can9 dog bites in the emergency department is that correct yes co-author that you published or authored or co-authored sometime in the late 1990s is that right correct and in that instance you talk about law enforcement dogs and a bite and a hold technique correct yes now part of the reason in writing that article had to do with sort of the applied forces and the unique spectrum of injuries uh from from those kind dog bites is that correct yes and that spectrum of injuries would include dep puncture wounds is that right they can yes severe Crush injuries is that right correct large tissue avulsions and lacerations is that right yes wounds necessitating surgical debridment is that right yes bony injuries ranging from cortical violations to displace fractures is that right yes neurovascular damage is that right yes and other wounds at high risk for infection correct correct but we also put a a disclaimer in that article I'm not asking you about any disclaim I'm asking about that's what the type of injuries that you were looking at is that correct yes but we saw a skewed population did you skew population in the study is that correct what we saw the worst of the worst yes no did you skew the population in the study I'm sorry I don't understand the question thep we skew the did we skew no we reported on all the ones that presented to the emergency room for care however a lot of dog bites don't present to the emergency room and so from the different cases that you report on within that article are there any of those uh cases in which there is injuries to just one aspect of one part of the human body for the the victims of of dog attacks or dog bites in those cases there may have been that's a summary of of the 700 cases 7 more than 700 cases is it normal in any kind of animal attack for injuries to occur on just one side of one arm of the person that's being attacked clawed or bitten there are many people who are bitten or scratched I'm asking if it's normal man okay so Mr hold hold on Mr Jackson Mr L ask a question wait for the answer and then start a next question do not interrupt the witness I I I apologize I don't mean to interrupt but I'm asking for an answer responsive question so ask a question and ask it in a manner that you get a responsive answer Dr Russell is it your testimony that it's normal and an animal attack for injuries to occur on just one side of one arm um and nothing else anywhere else on that person's body it can be yes I'm not asking if it can I'm asking is that normal I can't say sustained you have to ask the question differently so from your observations you looked at various photographs of Mr o'keef is that right I did did you observe any injuries on any other part of his body that you would attribute to an animal attack whether they ww marks or fight marks or anything else no nothing on his left arm correct nothing that identified as a dog bite or or scratch is that correct that's correct nothing onest torso is that correct that's correct now you say an animal attack possibly a large dog correct yes can you say what type of animal uh left these marks that you attribute to an animal attack not with 100% certainty no uh can you say where physically Mr o'keef was located when those uh the animal attack supposedly occur jection can you say that no okay can you say when uh Mr o'keef reportedly sustain these injuries from an animal attack be well to a certain degree yes before I I it was before death but not long enough to have a a big inflammatory reaction so yes so out minutes to hours before death minutes to hours before death but at some point before death correct yes can you say anything about the breed of dog no you say anything about uh whether it occurred inside the house outside of the house anything like that no as far as uh men some of the different things that you reviewed over the course of of your testimony uh excuse over the preparation of your testimony both prior to Tuesday and between Tuesday and today any of those things uh contain any forensic reports or uh phone examinations or anything else related to this case could you repeat that I didn't what kind of examination F any the materials that you reviewed whether it be prior sometime between May 17th and and Tuesday or anything that you review between Tuesday and today did any of those materials that you review contain any sort of forensic reports or anything beyond the UC dates yes I saw a photograph okay so you saw photographs and and to that point you never actually saw Mr O's SP correct you just saw photographs that's true and with respect to the UC Davis report as far as K9 DNA uh are you aware that the results of that were that there was no K9 DNA uh on Mr o' on swabbing that were sent to the UC Davis left I'm going to allow it yes but there was clothing in between okay but the swabbing came from the clothing with tears and the clothing in the same area as the injuries correct okay do you know that or no I I couldn't tell if they came from the wound or the clothing I thought that they came from the clothing but you couldn't tell by reviewing the report whether or not swabbing came from clothing or from Mr O's box I know the clothing was sent to the laboratory you know the clothing was sent to what laboratory to the D DNA laboratory to UC Davis oh I don't know that no I'm sorry you are aware that that came back as as far as negative for any K9 DNA right that's correct now as far as the injuries that you observed your testimony is that both the top teeth of of whatever animal this is and the bottom teeth of of whatever animal this is both made contact with only the top of Mr O'Keefe's arm or the posterior of his arm they both sets of teeth made contact with certain of those wounds yes but not all of them but neither the top nor the bottom teeth made any contact That You observe um assuming your issue as far as an animal attack there's no evidence of any animal attack on the bottom of Mr O's right arm correct I'm not sure what you mean by bottom interior anterior that's correct and nothing on the posterior or the anterior of his left arm that is correct nothing on his legs that's correct nothing on his torso correct nothing on his head is that correct correct now as far as the marks that you did observe that you do attribute to an animal attack and you even say with certainty whether or not those marks you feel are are bite marks versus scratch marks do you have any idea which or which there may be a combination so is that a no well no I think think that the ones that had the the linear abrasions above the P the small round punctate abrasions I believe that those are bite marks from upper and lower teeth now you indicated that part of what you had reviewed uh was um a dog by history for uh a dog from 34 Fairview Road named Chloe is that right yes and uh there were a couple different instances of that dog uh essentially getting in a fight with other dogs correct yes and at any point in time did you see anything in there as far as a dog going after a human in which there was no um no other dog present no and there were actually photographs contained within that material of uh dog bites from that dog from clo correct yes did any of those dog bites that you saw in those photographs look anything like what you observed in the photos that you saw Mr ois arm no but okay objection no so the answer is no you can get back up Mr Jackson but the answer to that question is no next question [Music] so is it your testimony that from reviewing what you review um that what you observe on Mr oi's arm is uh consistent with an animal attack to the exclusion of any other possibilities to a degree of reasonable medical certainty yes so as far as any other sort of blunt impact injuries or other manifestations of how those scratches got there you're saying nope had to be an animal attack I've seen thousands of wounded what I'm asking you all right so Mr L I'm going to let the witness answer goad I've seen thousands of people with injuries to their skin and from from blunt from sharp from um all different mechanisms those injuries did not look like blunt force injuries so your testimony that the injuries to his arm don't look anything like one force injuries that you've seen before you wouldn't characterize them as that that's correct and that's based on uh some photographs and some other materials that you uh began reviewing sometime May 17th 20124 yes I'm an ER doctor I need to make a diagnosis quickly when I see something and I'm trained to do that that's my that's my specialty are you being asked as an ER doctor to come to a quick conclusion and in this case no but you did anything it's how I'm trained nothing further very briefly your honor pleas report go ahead um concerning the forensic odology report the nas report that um Mr La asked you about what is your understanding about the report as it pertains to identifying individuals who left a bite mark explain that I I believe the report says that that is not reliable as as it once was thought to be like a fingerprint identifying a human being DNA identifying a person or a bite mark identifying a person Nas said not the bite mark doesn't work that way that's correct has nothing to do with the pattern of injuries that you've seen thousand times from animals correct correct you were asked uh several questions about the injuries that you saw and studied attended to dog highly trained dog highly trained Kines uh police dogs correct yes very different than just a domestic dog that somebody might have as pet correct correct and the bite injuries are very very different as well aren't they that is correct you asked whether or not you were aware based on UC Davis's report that there was no canine DNA found on the on the squabs that were sent to them correct yes are you also aware that there was Pig DNA I'm aware of that did that have any impact in your did you analyze that at all one way or the other not to any degree of scientific certainty no but you do know that dogs chew on Pig airs sometimes correct jaction suain you've reviewed uh at least a report if not a series of reports that indicate that that a particular dog has an attack history correct yes you were asked specifically by Mr L whether or not the wounds in a dog attack on another dog attack where a human stuck a hand in the Middle look anything like these correct remember that question I remember a question like and you said no but and then you were cut off remember that yes you finish that answer for us yes so so animals and and dogs in particular can inflict a a wide variety of injuries on the skin from um from just individual puncture wounds to uh abrasions where there's a scratching of the skin to where there's actually a pulling away at uh and um pulling away of the skin from the underlying tissues your ripping effect and so there's a variety of wounds that that U you know or patterns that one can see from an animal attack it depends a lot on the thickness of the skin the movement of the between the uh the victim and the animal and uh also the power of the animal and the training of the animal yes so in other words not all wounds inflicted by a particular animal are going to look exactly the same correct very Dynamic situation isn't it jaction sustained doctor having seen up to a thousand fight and claw marks on the the human body and based on your review of the entirety of the case File that you reviewed including the nature and the pattern and consistency of the injuries that saw Mr O's right arm what is your opinion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty about the nature of those injuries jaction sustain what is your ultimate conclusion and opinion about the the injuries that you saw and that you reviewed and that we saw today jaction sustained can you tell the jurors at the end of the at the end of the day what is your opinion and conclusion about those injuries objection got we approach e e thank you no more questions you are unmuted Mr you had no more questions no yeah okay all right doctor you are all set okay thank you [Music] [Music] all right Jers we will take our lunch and break court all the jury [Applause] May SE I just want to know who you have this afternoon just all right thank you you are M hey there Karen Reed trial Watchers this is another law crime legal alert have you experienced severe gastroparesis or other side effects after taking OIC or another glp1 weight loss medication the OIC lawsuits alleged that the drug can lead to severe intestinal blockage and persistent vomiting and that Manu facturers allegedly failed to provide adequate warnings about these risks while true law one of our legal sponsors is helping those injured file a claim through an experienced attorney who helps ensure your claim is Thoroughly presented just visit www.g lp1 case.com LC live to answer less than 10 questions and check your eligibility to file a claim e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e course back in session please thank you all right M Ted thank you very much your H def calls Richard green [Music] [Music] raise your right hand the the court and jur case now in hearing the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth shall help you I do thank you good afternoon I proceed you yes um sir if you pull that microphone as close to your face as you can so your voice will be kept up and I'd ask you to state your name and spell your last name sure uh Richard green that's G re n where do you live sir I now reside in Coldwater Michigan what do you do I own and operate a company called United States forensics and what is United States forensics sure we're a digital investigation firm we have uh we're licensed in Florida and Michigan uh but we do uh cases across the country all right and again I'd ask you to keep your voice up only because we have an air conditioner there and we have jurors behind me that okay so best sure yeah as best you can um now you are president of that company sir I am um in addition to managing the company what do you do on a day-to-day basis well I perform uh the majority of the investigations uh I specialize in computer cell phone Cloud uh Auto video uh metadata media surveillance systems things of that nature uh do you work in conjunction with others certainly uh describe that please uh certainly well we do take cases from individuals or prefer to take cases from attorneys uh We've also worked with um numerous uh public defenders we've worked with a federal public defender uh we've worked with law enforcement uh so uh quite quite a variety of clientele civil cases yeah civil and criminal um I would put it about 60% criminals 40% uh civil okay and with on the criminal side you've done both law enforcement and defense correct yeah most of the law enforcement ones though have been more geared towards civil is when they had it perhaps they were party to a suit and it was just improper for them to use their own experts I see so that's where we've provided assistance now how long have you been involved in the field of data forensics sure well my first case and testimony was 28 years ago I I'm not even sure we called it data forensics back then but uh that was 28 years ago and then about 16 years ago started the uh company United States forensics and been full-time in the industry since that point all right now you'd mentioned that you'd actually test ified for the first time 28 years ago that would have been 1996 if my math is correct that's correct you were qualified as an expert witness at that time yes sir um in order to have been qualified as an expert witness you must have had experience before that yeah was specifically in computers we didn't do much with cell phones back then uh by about a decade or so in uh computer it networking um we actually built a line of computers uh a lot of repairs so I was pretty deep been to uh the computer it world at that point okay and you say you formed your company in 2006 correct and you work full-time part-time what's your schedule oh it's it's been full-time ever since uh would you uh describe for the jury please your um educational background your training certifications Etc but why don't we break it down into smaller Cy sure okay first with regard to your the training that you've received sure um so the uh that would had to do with Associates digital forensics uh well that would more be your education right you received an associates degree in digital forensics correct okay so why don't we start with education since you did okay I well that that was that was uh part of the work and and more or less the uh formal training to get that degree uh the the certification which again this all kind of goes hand in hand but uh the certification training would be the um uh CCE which is computer a certified computer examiner from the International Association criminal investigation Specialists I also have a certification as a computer crime related uh investigator uh cyber security uh as well as computer first responder uh the training aspect in over the last 18 years on really a daily basis i' when I've worked uh I've participated in um list done research into the newest developments in the uh computer uh forensics and really on usually a weekly basis will Target some uh training seminar uh I I found in this business even if you took us like six months off you would start to get behind in this business it changes that rapidly and uh you you really need to do continual training okay and again your voice trilled off a little bit at the end so I'm sorry I'm sorry to keep reminding you but I I just want to make sure everybody hears um with regard to the amount you know your case load at USA uh forensics can you give the jury some idea of how many cases you handle on a yearly basis or historic yeah we uh average uh I say between and 120 cas is a year we probably get inquiries to about three times that amount okay and have you uh testified as an expert witness in the area of computer forensics uh since that 1996 first appear yeah we testify about two dozen times in various state and federal courts okay uh and when you say various States and courts is that State Court federal court both [Music] both now directing your attention to September of 2022 uh were you contacted by somebody to become involved in this matter yes sir remember who that was uh I believe it was Miss little uh what were you asked to do well there was uh three cell phones related to this case and to provide uh relevance uh with the data on those phones as related to the uh incident on January 29th 2022 okay and were you aware of the uh owners of those three phones certainly uh it was Karen Reed John O'Keefe and Jennifer McCabe now I'd like to ask you first if I can about J Keith's phone um how did you um how did you receive the data from that phone if you remember yeah we uh received what's called an image file and that's a a forensic term that we use essentially it's a a copy of the data that's ENC capsulated into a single file in this case it was a zip file did you examine that data I did what were your goals during your examination of johon O'Keefe's Phone what were you what were you looking for well initially what was supported was the location data we wanted to get an idea of uh when he had arrived and uh anything else that we could tell from uh that as far as location and when you say when he arrived do you remember the location that you were asked to learn when you 34 Fairview in Canton yes sir all right were you able to determine as a result of your examination approximately when his phone arrived at 34 Fair viiew Road according to the location data yes sir and how did you do it sure well we uh I say we so that's proverbial we I extracted the uh uh the location cache data which is stored in the U on your phone and it's in the uh certain locasion we exported that out and then we use a tool called cellhawk and we import it in there so it can take literally you know thousands of data points and uh automate that process to specific GPS locations and just as importantly the range of accuracy that that location is reporting okay uh so uh according to the uh uh process that you uh underwent what what time did the location data indicate that John O'Keefe's Phone arrived at 34th Fairview on January 29th 2022 so the the first one right to the driveway was at 1224 and 28 seconds 1224 and 28 correct um now if I asked you to filter Jon o' Keef's location data within uh an accuracy of 3 feet using self Hawk could you try to do that yes sir um in fact did you try to do it I did when last night who asked you to do that you did Sir I may approach your [Music] yes so I pleas said for you could you familiarize yourself with that and look up at me when you're done all right recognize that I do what is it so this is a uh screenshot from the cellhawk program uh it has a u kind of a central uh box here that says database settings and this is where we apply a certain filter and uh what filter did you apply uh this was for the accuracy of um less than or equal to 3 ft with regard to what oh John uh ok's location data um is that uh uh an exact uh is the I'm sorry is the data on that document exactly what you received when you uh you know use the cellhawk program to uh to filter the data yes sir I would offer that your honor no objection no objection sir oh I'm sorry I thought you said objection so you need to give it to Madam court reporter I'm all flustered sorry uh and if the witness could have that again thank you with permission I'd like to publish that okay okay so um Mr Green what are we looking at okay so that is the screenshot from the cellhawk and what can you tell us about what you learn from that exhibit well I'll just use the pointer here might help but you can see up in this part here where this is where we apply the filter for 3 ft or less that'd be the acur and then it actually resed zero results meaning all of the data within there had a um uh an accuracy rating higher than that 3 foot it could be 5 MERS or 10 meters but none of it was granular enough at a a 3 foot or less accuracy level okay and if you had inputed accuracy of within say 500 ft what would you find yeah you would see then uh a large number of circles each circle representing the uh the the the meters that the accuracy uh would be related to what what's really important to understand though is you don't want to look at just the middle of the circle that accuracy indicates it could be anywhere in the circle so if you saw one and it Encompass two or three houses you you could only draw that inference of somewhere in that Circle so it's uh it's kind of like how uh the hurricane they say don't don't just look at the cone right because it could be different than that um also the accuracy this is Apple's best guess what the accuracy is so it could actually be different than that it's uh Apple is using um a number of services and they're giving back the the the best estimation that they can for the accuracy Okay so we've talked about the location cash data and where it put John O'Keefe's Phone in terms of arriving at 34 Fairview but was there also Apple Health Data on John O'Keefe's Phone uh during that time certainly yes um is Apple Health Data generally accepted within the forensic science Community as being reliable well the the Apple Health Data is comes from something called health kit but it's integral to the iOS system so anyone that has an iPhone probably seen Apple Health Data and what's uh it's known to have extremely valuable data uh that the forensic tools uh work with and um present to us uh the degree of accuracy it depends on the type of data that's being pulled out on the artifacts for for example um steps are known to have an accuracy of around 98 uh percent uh on the actual steps being occurring so so if if the Apple Health Data returns for instance uh steps of you know 20 steps within a certain time period 98% of the time Apple's going to be right that's what Studies have shown all right uh may I approach the witness your honor [Music] yes you want this back [Music] okay I placed another document for you do you recognize what that what that is uh yes I do this is a uh uh this lists out uh Apple Health Data for um that was from John oi phone on uh January 29th 2022 all right that came from the data that you received the image file of of John ke phone correct that is correct I would offer that your honor Mr no objection [Music] and with the Court's permission may I publish that your H okay um specifically I'd like to start with page two record two hey Mr Green are are you wearing the right glasses to be able to see the yeah I probably need bif focals here I keep switching glasses but uh can are you able to to read what is on the screen and if it's easier you can look on your document in front of you it's page two record yeah you know I think I'm going to have to uh to do that I I can probably still see good enough to do the laser one I'm sorry which record is this you're looking at page two record number two okay yes I have that in front of me okay what does record number two show on page two of John's Apple Health Data sure so this is the uh number of meters it's listed as 87.7 4 and the uh time is listed between 1221 and 10 seconds and and there's a a milliseconds after that but I'll I'll just round it off to the second if you don't mind uh so 12:21 and 10 seconds to 1224 and 22 seconds okay um and you said that it showed 887 M travel during that time period correct and with regard to that same time period 1221 and 10 seconds and 1224 and 22 seconds please turn to page 5 and Mr Bates if you would zoom in on record number two I have that okay uh what does record number two reflect uh it's the same time in the steps taken is recorded is 80 steps okay and you said the same time period so again 12 2110 to 12422 correct correct all right now I'd like to direct your attention to page four record number one Mr BST that you're ready Mr Green if you could tell the jury what that reflects sure so this indicates uh three sets of of um uh floors that represents elevation change so it it doesn't indicate to us up or down but uh three steps in the time period for that is 12224 to 12437 okay did you say 12214 to 1222 I'm sorry 1224 37 yeah yeah 12224 to 12 4737 um and with regard to all of this data the 80 steps and the three flights of stairs that you mentioned um is it possible to pinpoint where within the time frame that's given those steps or flights of stairs were ascended or descent no the the most granular we can get is the time period and it doesn't um it it doesn't signify as any more likely the beginning of the time period then at the end of the time period Then at some time in the middle and if you think logically like distance traveled that doesn't happen at a split moment it it happens over a cur period of time so it's time is a factor in that equation and this is how the Apple records that data you got it you got to look at the time overall okay so you don't know if it's the steps are bunched up toward the beginning or toward the end or more evenly spread out no I would not be able to tell you that now now we've discussed the Apple Health Data I want to go back for a second to talk about the location data on the iPhone um does that data that you've already talked about in terms of the arrival time that it gave for Jon o Keef's phone at 34 Fairview um does that arrival time fall within or outside the range of 1221 and 10 SEC or 122 1221 and 10 seconds and 1224 and 37 seconds well there is uh that certainly indicates an overlap it the the health that is ending after the arrival and we can now I'd like to discuss with you the concept of clocks used by apps on an iPhone sure are you aware of the three different clocks that are used by iPhone apps I am what are they you have uh so we have three separate internal clocks you have a monotonic clock a bband clock and a wall clock okay and is the wall clock also called the dis display clock yeah that would be a a also a common name for that and what is the significance of the existence of three clocks um regarding you know different times that may show up within these records sure well app developers uh can access uh Apple um uh program library and they can call upon any of the clocks to use within their apps okay uh now in your investigation and examination of this case did you find examples on this phone of different clocks being used so in this particular case I had reprocessed the data with the newest version of the axium forensic program it's similar to cellb there competitors so cellb and it's we use both programs and this newest version had a feature in there where you can filter for the Way's application and uh again just following up and seeing how this function we filter for the way application and for the first time we saw this monotonic uh timestamp being related to the ways application okay um I want to show you exhibit 640 if I approach I've placed exhibit 640 before you sir do you recognize what that is yes sir what is it so this is a uh screenshot from the magnet Action Program I was referring to it's the 8.1 actually point it looks like 4287 but voice up sir I'm sorry yes so so it's the U newest version of the program and we have it filtered for the ways app and it's giving us uh the time stamps associated with it okay with the Court's permission may I publish that there you go first of all are you that is probably too small okay thank you I I'll go off to this one there we go um with regard to what we are looking at there on that part of the screen uh what are we looking at Mr Green okay so this is listening details of this particular artifact and you can see that this is um bundled U uh the com. ways. iPhone that that's a standard um bundle type name where it always starts with com Dot and then the application uh reference and what what does that mean when it says it's highlighted on the screen com. w. iPhone uh what does that mean that we're in right now yeah well this is an RFA specifically related to the the ways program ways out yes sir all right uh go on okay and we can see here uh our entry for the monotonic time the uh baseband time and the display time and what what did you notice about the relationship of the three of those certainly well most noticeable that about this the monotonic is running uh a little over 3 minutes ahead of the uh display so that I think it's 3 minutes and one second give or take a little so you know in a lot of cases 3 minutes may not seem like much but in in in this case uh this struck me as important to objection move to strike sustained I'm willing to strike that next question I apologize you can hand that back to Madam court reporter sure and I'd like to go back to the app Health Data Mr B you put that back up uh and this so this would be page two record number three and do you do you you don't still have that in front of you do you actually I do you do I do uh page two record number three so yes sir uh what does that show all right okay so this uh is a um another entry from uh joh ois uh data uh cell phone data and this records uh 25 Met 25.46 m occurring between 123156190 to 12326 okay so we have uh 36 steps being taken according to Apple Health Data on johon O's phone uh for a time period that ends at 12326 objection Su stay ask it differently Mr uh with regard to those 36 steps do we know where within that time frame they were taken sure let me uh let me uh reread that here we uh January 29th 2022 12 23156 a.m. is actually 123156190 16507 a.m. okay all right so now I'd like to switch if we can to Jennifer McCabe's phone and your analysis of that um during the course of your examination when you reviewed data from her phone um did you find a particular artifact of Interest yes I did what did you find we found a Google search that happened uh first of all the search was how's long to die in cold and it happened at her before 2:27 a.m. all right where was that search found sure so that the artifact on that was called a safari suspended tabs artifact and there's a a database associated with that called the browser DB data base and in a company file which is by the same name but ends in which stands for right ahead log and the right ahead log is where the data first gets written to and then at certain points that data then gets committed and written to the main database all right so that if I'm correct that browser state. dball file that's a temporary file right it it's temporary by nature but it's not uh that's not to it's integral is part of the way the uh SQ light functions so it's it's not like a throwaway file is part of the way the whole system works and is it helpful to you when evaluating artifacts certainly yeah the uh just by nature of it we'll find a lot of the newest artifacts in that wall file now how do you determine the timing uh in terms of the time stamp on the browser state. DB wall file sure so the wall file has different uh rows and columns you can kind of think of it as an Excel spreadsheet and in this one particular uh column had a it was a time column that that' be the nature of the data going into it and this uh the heading on this particular one was last view time okay uh regarding that Google search for hos long and I I say Hos Hos long to in cold found in the browser State DB wall file what was the date and time for that artifact sure so that's recorded in uh what's called appoa time and it's actually the number of seconds since uh January 1st 200 2001 so you end up with this large number and but that gets converted to present to us uh something that's human readable and then you have to apply the asset for the local so once you do all those calculations we that's where we get the January 29th 2022 at 227 okay the specific do you remember the number of seconds after I believe it it's 40 seconds 227 40 seconds okay and in what state did you find that artifact yeah so the uh the specific artifact or it comes from a record and the the record number on this is um uh 4028 I believe and it was in a deleted State okay um now what would you normally expect to find along with the artifact sir so you'd have the uh the date and time the URL which the way the URL presents itself we know that as a Google search but you also see a history of other places that tab has been and with this particular artifact did you learn the full internet history of websites related to that record no that wasn't possible we were only able to get the one website I I would say um I'm sorry I'm sorry go go interrupted you well no is so we we definitely got the one artifact uh the the the Google search and we have the time related to it but we do not know everywhere else that tab uh had been what significance was there to you about the fact that the full internet history related to that record could not be recovered well I I wanted to do a uh a little deeper dive into that and so I use some various other database uh specific tools uh one was called belkasoft X which has an excellent uh database uh viewer in it uh Sanderson forensics which is uh known to specialize in this type of work and um uh artx I'm sorry artx you saved me yes uh artx which is a uh a a program known in the community for research and how did you uh sort of cross cross reference the three of those together how' you use them yeah so all three of those tools along with axom and uh CBR which I did they do have a a lowlevel sqo viewer as well so I looked at the data with all five of those tools and I found it to be consistent amongst all the tools and in addition to using those tools what else did you do so I want to get a little more context one thing to with this artifact it is deleted and one thing about deleted data some times you get it all back sometimes you don't sometimes you get a fragment uh deleted data makes it very difficult to give you the whole picture of what's happening so in this particular case I wanted to see how what other artifacts were around this time as are related to web history and particularly this uh uh browser um uh database file and and so um what do you compare the 227 a.m. search to in order to gain more information exactly I'm sorry what the information was so what what we found is that when we looked at a particular URL a particular website that was visited and then searched using that URL the browser State database entry is the last entry in in all of that so we could see searches um uh vide playing um there's an artifact called knowledge C that records the users activity but the browser state is the very last entry on the items that we observed and uh did you find other examples of that that you can speak to uh before this jury uh yes I uh as believe we have one printed out there okay may I approach youor yes okay I place the document before you sir if you could uh familiarize yourself with that and look up at me when you're done I have it what is it okay so this is another uh screenshot from the axium program and uh it uh uh it is showing uh uh a search that we conducted for reigning men and then it takes that search and we have a couple um different items on there we set the date to begin in 1970 and ending in 2100 in other words we only want to see artifacts that had dates associated with them and then uh we uh listed them from the new state to the Old State and this particular one again it ends up with the Safari suspended tabs artifact being the very last in the series of days and times I'd like to go through that but first I'd offer it into evidence your honor any objection no you're there you go 6 and with the Court's permission may it be published yes okay okay okay so we have a number of colums here uh could you explain to the jury what's going on with that exhibit uh certainly so I I'm going to I'm going to switch glasses uh back here forgive me I do you need the light on sir are you open no I I'm I'm fine your honor thank you much I can I can certainly do this so we are uh looking at here web related history and also uh I have the filter turned on for application usage because there are some uh log file files uh sort files that the iPhone keeps tracked of to record user interactions and that can give us a idea of the history as well and then as I mentioned we have it uh filtered so that's only showing dates uh that dates existed and we took the earliest possible date to a date way in the future and then it's listed and next to the date and time you'll see a little arrow and it's skinny at the top and big at the bottom that that tells you it's going from smallest uh earliest time to latest time and this particular view is showing us the um the last of that series because what's relevant and really important here is that the Safari suspended State tabs ends up being the last of the entries related to that not one of the beginning of the entries related to that and what is the significance of the sa the Safari State being the last ENT what does that tell you yeah well uh so it tells us the Internet history happened before that and the the purpose of this tab on at least this particular iPhone with this very specific iOS version is to record uh the state of that tab when the user left that and the the the whole purpose of that is if you're on a safari you're on a website and say you have to take a phone call or answer a text message and you navigate away from the Safari app when you come back it remembers where you were and allows you to pick off from there um it also allows you to hit the tab button and see what other tabs you might have open and navigate to one of those tabs all right so as as I see the last tab and I correct that the time is 129 22 same day at 227 and 38 seconds that what it says on your I'm sorry I I'm definitely getting a pair of B folos I apologize here I feel a little silly um yes yes on this particular one so that is um just moments before uh the um the Google search artifact the one that you previously talked about the H to die to die in the cold yes but but all the other history of this particular artifact was before that time correct correct um so with regard to what that tells you about when the it reing men was either searched or accessed was that at after or before 227 and 38 seconds I sorry can you stained okay say it one more time let let me let me try and put it a different way um given the time stamp of 227 and 38 seconds on January 29th for that Safari suspended state t with the Its Raining Men what did that tell you about the timing of When Its Raining Men was accessed by the user yeah well so the indications would be that that tab was brought up and then uh went away from to to do another tap so it can happen less than a second it doesn't take long to open up a tab and start a new tab can be done very quickly I'm not um really phrasing this the right way to get what I want what I want is the timing of the interaction with it raining in by the actual iPhone user when did that happen well certainly all the activity that we have is all prior to the recording of This of that uh Tim stamp in the browser State all right now with regard to this particular example where the browser State DB is the last entry so the activity happened before was that unique to on this phone or was were there many examples of this no I I found many examples of this exact behavior all right now given your your findings in researching these issues and how this user use this iPhone with this iOS do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty as the time as to the timing of that search for Hong to D in cold objection sustained do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty as to when hus long to die in cold was search jaction sustained I can see you at s thank you e you are [Music] unmuted do you have an opinion as to the timing of that first search for hosong to die in cold yes I do what is that opinion that that would have happened at or before uh January 29th 2022 at 22740 a.m. in the morning and what is the basis for your opinion Again by how this particular phone operates with that exact operating system and comparing to other data on that phone and the way it presented it out itself it's all consistent with that search happening at or before that time um and what if opinions or conclusions did you reach regarding how if any how the 227 a.m. search was deleted well we we uh know that that's in a uh deleted State and importantly on that phone is we I I I say using the proverbial we I found uh a lot of other that would have been used or deleted artifacts between the midnight and the early mornings on January 29th 2022 okay um are you aware of any internal mechanisms that could have caused that deltion no not not in this uh particular case I know no mechanism they would have done that all right and you mentioned dele other deletions on the phone I want to show you what has been marked if I may approach mmm for identification do you recognize what I placed before you sir yes sir what is it okay this is uh from sellbrite is a program uh again like uh the axium that processes data and uh this is a u uh this lists out a uh 623 this lists out a deleted call record okay um are you able to see from that record to whom the call was placed yeah well we have the number and I I won't necessarily read it out loud here but uh through searching and this is from uh the phone of U uh Jenifer mccab and but through searching for that uh the number I was able to see that it went to um you want me to say the name sure yeah um uh Uncle Brian a oh um I would offer that into evidence your honor same objection as before your honor as when this was may we approach okay e e e e so folks we're trying to streamline the exhibit numbers it looks like this may already be in evidence it's one of four different numbers so I sort of wanted to keep it with that we are so far removed from where it was that this will just come in as the next exhibit so you will technically have it in evidence twice okay5 thank you may I approach again your [Music] yes there one final document before you if you can identify that for the jury please uh yes this is another report generated out of sellbrite is based on uh Miss McCabe's um cell phone data and uh this lists out the call log with uh a number of um deleted items and number of live items I would off thator if I get a see it's fine I I think it's already in evidence as well but actually it's uh I confirmed it's not it's not yet in evidence we looked at the that were specified so 66 thank you um if you could hand that to the witnesses if I could have okay with regard to that exhibit Mr Green what what did you find that was unusual if anything jaction sustained ask it differently Mr un yes what did you find of note uh certainly what was the time frame of the um deleted records now uh I I'll just talk about this particular report here I it starts at 533 47 in the morning and uh and on the second page we see it ends at 8:50 and5 seconds again a.m. and then the normal calls we call live data then begins at 8:59 and 34 seconds and goes on throughout the day with no more with no additional deletions and I am I right that those are all that's the call log those are all phone calls correct yeah this is the call log and what was the difference between the calls that were at 859 and after on January 29th 2022 and and the calls that were before at or before 8:50 a.m. on January 29th 2022 yeah well it's the state they were found in uh deleted versus live data I'm sorry uh deleted data at the earlier time and live data after the uh the 85934 what what percentage of phone calls were found deleted on Jennifer MC's phone prior to 8:50 a.m. on January 29th I all right I have to see you take this down for a minute please I have to see councel e e you are unmuted so Mr Green I'm not sure if that question was clear or if you understood it if it's not please let me know but I had asked you um from the the first recorded call there that was listed as deleted until 8:50 a.m. or so what percentage of calls were deleted on Jen MC's phone within that time period yeah so we found no live data so 100% of them were have been deleted now are you aware of the term spontaneous deletion uh no sir uh I I know what the individual words mean but in in relation to digital forensics I'm not familiar with that term and do you have an opinion as to how those calls would have been deleted from that phone those would have been used or deleted [Music] I have a moment sure have no further questions thank you sir [Music] good afternoon sir good afternoon [Music] sir do you know who uh Miss Jessica Hyde is I do are you aware that she uh wrote a report in relation to this case yes specifically in regard to the Google searches from Mr M's phone that you were just talking about yes sir it was very specific about that search and have you had a chance to review that report I have you also know who a uh Ian within it certainly yes and uh are you aware that he wrote uh several reports submitted several items in relation to uh again the exact topic that you're testifying about in relation to uh the Google searches on misic yes sir I understand that and have you had a chance to review those materials as well yes sir you understand that they both disagree with what your opinion is in relation to those CS I absolutely understand that [Music] sir now just as far as your qualifications and and certifications go I'm just having a difficult time from the certifications that you have at what point were you uh or what offending certifications do you have with reference to uh sellbrite as a tool as as far as your use interpretation of data from from SRA uh certainly so my certifications are much more broad they have to do theot the fundamentals and and how we conduct the investigations and what uh to we should know and when we need know we need to do more work and such like that uh celbrate um I do not have any specific celbrate certifications they offer many of them uh however I part I have participated in um God I can't even count um hundreds of their training events that they offer uh both uh celbrate axium belkasoft they all provide the community with fantastic uh support as far as that and although certainly a class can be very good but you really need to to stay up to speed you you got to participate in the the most recent uh understanding being put out there even in the changes of their tools will change from one version to another and so to the point as far as you you have no certifications in regard to celebrit uh as a tool and how to use it those kind of things that's correct sir okay and in this specific instance at any point did you reach out to cell right uh to go over sort of your findings or your opinions in relation to this search I did and uh who if anyone did you speak with from SEL uh as close as I can remember I know it was Leo and I believe it was Santos and do you know what part of celebrite they work in or what they do well he was in the the technical support and uh uh contacted him uh he had informed me that they had elevated this up the um to some higher level technical uh support when they came back uh his uh comments to me if you want to hear him uh was at this Okay C his comments but at some point I understand talk to technical support is that correct absolutely and they indicated that they would refer you to uh actually Mr wh's team no sir they did not so you weren't told that you were referred to Mr Whiff's team and you weren't contacted by anyone from Mr whin team no um uh and I forget the exact date uh couple weeks ago maybe a month ago uh out of blue I got an email from Miss wiffin saying um and I can't I don't want I don't want to misquote them but certainly I got an email asking you about any specific conversation you had when I'm asking and I'm asking about a time period more back in 2022 I'm sorry I couldn't quite hear you back in 2022 did you reach out to celebr in relation to this search and your opinions related to it yes sir and at that point was that the point that you spoke to someone from technical support yes sir and uh at that point did someone from technical support actually refer you or tell you that they were referring you to Mr Whiff's team no sir I had absolutely no idea about that so no one from Mr team no no one from Mr whiffin team reach out to you and then you just never called them back that didn't happen now that I'm aware now you were asked to look at uh a couple different phones and I'm assuming by Council for the defend in correct can you say that once again I'm sorry you were asked to look at three different phones is what your testimony was and I'm assuming that was by some councel for the defendant correct no one else asked you to look at these phones corre oh correct yes it was from the defense ask me to yes and so the phones that you were asked to look at were Mr O's phone the defendant's phone and Miss MC's phone correct correct now as far as Carrie Roberts's phone were you ever asked to look at that no and with respect to the defendant's phone U was there any GPS location information or data that you observed in her phone so we had an indication that location had been using there was something called Apple map tiles and those poly when you use the Apple map app that it uh in order for it to work it will create these little tiles they little pieces of pictures and they get stitched together to give you the view that you see on your phone now for that had been working we know location data had to be working this particular location data the location data cache is known to only be present on the phone for a couple weeks now what I I don't know and Mr if I'm going too far just please stop me um what I don't know what measures were taken to preserve that data whether it was put um in airplane where the location services were turned off where there was put in a faay bag and and quite frankly Mr loow I don't know if they did all that if the location data would have remained or not I I've never tested that but all indications it would have had location data um on the day that it it was seized because we received the Apple map tole but when I got the full extraction there was no location data there now I did observe so there was no GPS location data on the defendant F correct Cor What You observe and again if I'm I there was I did find deleted location data from April of 2022 now with respect to the defendants phone did you also find deleted web history data from the afternoon of January 29th 2022 no I'm sorry I didn't observe that didn't observe it or didn't look for uh you you know I really don't have a recollection if I specifically look for deleted data I don't believe I did I don't know if I would have had to have a cause to now with reference to uh your asking question about um location accuracy within 3 feet you did some sort of U thing last night on cellhawk using that tool is that correct certainly and you were asked to do that after tro testified yesterday is that correct I understand testified yesterday and so with relation to you creating sort of that document and that's now been marked as an exhibit was that something that Mr yti asked you to do in relation to Trio's testimony yes well in all fairness you need to ask Mr Genetti uh I um I could make an assumption yeah here I I I mean uh if I'm not I don't know quite any I'm not trying not to answer you uh you know but I was asked by Mr unit to perform that search so Mr please be CAU that yes so M green with respect uh to that three feet of accuracy are you aware that what trino was testifying to in regard to that had absolutely nothing to do with phone applications or anything to do with data from phone or cellhawk or a tool or anything like that now I I don't know the full extent of what Mr GRE we been testifying to and so you're not aware that his testimony was actually in regard to reviewing a cruiser camera video from the cadon police department and photographs of where Mr O's body was and then mapping that using GPS latitude and longitude based on that within a three feet a the objections Su stand ask it differently sure are you aware of any of what tripo testified to yesterday uh what you're mentioning uh I I I may vaguely be remembered and again I'm not trying to not answer your question uh exactly uh my conversation with Mr Genetti can is is the is three for when it comes to GPS data uh you can you tell three feet from GPS data and no it's not known to be that reliable and particularly Apple location services how that applies to um um the the Troopers testimony uh you know I I can't say with specifity I'm happy to Pine on location data though there's no question thank you I have a moment now sir with reference to uh Safari and deleted hats um isn't it true that there is no way for a user to uh delete a tab only to close it you agree with that yeah well when you when you close a tab all right you're you're taking it out of the active State and it's going to an inactive state that some people could call deleted now the uh Safari history allows you to go in and delete history by uh certain date ranges but you can also go into a specific websites that you visited and delete those now now you if you want me to continue the wall file itself you can't open up a wall file and say I want to delete that record but functioning the phone to the user interfaces will have an effect of deleting data within that wall file isn't it also true that celite uses that redex uh to annotates uh that the record is no longer active and has been recovered uh been making Comet upon the examiner uh being you in this instance uh to determine if it was actually deleted correct yes sir thank you for asking it's yes the so that's all I'm asking sir okay all right now you stated in your affidavit in your testimony that you use the Sanderson SQ light or SQL light forensic Explorer uh to examine the Safari tabs uh DB associated with the with the wall file log is that correct yes sir now in your analysis using that Sanderson franic Explorer uh was there an indication uh that uh house long to die and cold was found in the wall file yes sir now with regard to that uh did you independently verify uh the cause of that time stamp that you observed there yes sir now is it your interpretation that the time stamp means the search appeared at that time solely based on the naming of the field in the database no sir now can a wall file contain items that are so new that they're not not yet committed to the database yes sir that that's the purpose of it so the wall file holds the newest information until it's merged to the database including additions deletions changes all of those items correct that is correct now according to your affidavit the device was in active use between 2:23 a.m. and 231 a.m. and just to be clear I'm talking about Miss McCabe's device correct correct and uh what other searches did you see at that time and uh where were they I I I'm sorry can you repeat that I couldn't quite heares Did You observe in that time frame and where were they perform well there there were a number of uh websites uh including um the uh rainy men exhibit that we did there was um ozone um basketball I believe there hammont Smith and I can tell you that those similarly the last entry with those there is the browser State DB file it's not the beginning it's not at the end and I have a couple thoughts on why that may be in regards to miss Hyde and Miss whiff and I'm happy to share those with you I'm not asking you anything about that sir asking is is it possible for a change request in the wall to a sqlite database uh pertaining to one particular field leaving the other field as what they were previously I I I and I I want to answer your question as well as I can so can you repeat that one more time sure is it possible um is it possible for a change request in the wall to a sqlite database pertaining to one particular field leaving the other field as what they were previously um I yeah I'm having a little trouble answering this so um if if I'm understanding correctly the when the wall file gets written to the database and could that have made the the change ending with this deleted record is is that the question I I I'm s I'm sorry I want to answer you I'm just a little lost on how you're asking it understand the question sorry do not understand the question why don't you move on Mr is it possible that the URL field which has the website name was updated uh to the newest search while the Tim stamp retained the original search is that possible no not the way on this particular phone in this particular iOS and also with the user interacted with it that the it would have been at the 227 or before the the way this very specific iOS was happening that is consistent with all the other ones that I observed out there on the phone related to specific web uh searches and activity is it possible that the search for house long to die in the cold uh at 6:24 a.m. was the most recent search completed it in the tab I well not in that tab but I certainly agree with you that there was a second search done at around that time now is it also possible that the search that you assert took place at 227 and 40 seconds in the morning is the same as the search that took place at 62451 a.m. for that same search yeah that's inconsistent with the the actual data I'm seeing on this actual phone with this precise iOS version now as far as the search in Saar uh with the the the string as far as um the smot to.app ale.com included is it um you recall that search as far as being a suggestion from Apple from the IOS as far as the the search with how long to digest food okay I didn't hear your whole question but I heard the last part about how long to digest food so I I canine on that so my feeling on that is when the um how's long toan Co was put in that that was most likely a apple suggestion and I've I've done some testing now the time period I'm doing my testing you know is after the fact that this would have actually occurred but as I tested that on a live phone and using a Google search I could see that that uh how long to digest food would come up I also notice a the specific phrase uh how long does it take to die from hypothermia so as you do this Google Search you try to repeat what's been done those are two suggestions that actually came up and so that was something that was a suggestion and not something that was actually searched correct yeah no I and I know that's different from my f from about a year and a half ago in all fairness but that's entirely different one person Mr L I'm sorry one person at a time yes okay so yeah In fairness I want to give you the my best knowledge as I understand it's saying here today including after my review of Mr whiffin and Miss Hy's report uh so I I want to do everything I can to shine as much light and Clarity on this as possible so as I repeated you know since that time and did the search I would notice that that is one of the things would come up and it would have a little picture of like a dinner plate or or something like that and and there was actually a similar if not the same picture found in the um artifacts of that phone and so just to conclude that's that's not what you said in your affidavit that was actually filed under pains and penalties of perjury with this court correct yes and on that day that is what my true improper belief was okay it it since further testing I have found that I I now believe that that was probably an automatic uh one and if I've uh cause you any distress I apologize do cause me any distress what I'm asking sir is that you that's what you filed because that's what you thought at the time correct yes sir and subsequently you've done further testing and that shown that you were wrong correct that is correct now according uh to your aav there was a search for how long to digest food at 62349 a.m. that precedes the search for how long uh to die and the the misspelling here would be uh the key CL KD uh at 62351 a is that correct yes [Music] sir now is it possible that the how long to digest food was a predictive uh suggestion from Apple rather than a search entered by the user is that also correct yeah that I I don't know uh I I don't know the answer to that uh I believe that it was if it had picked up a earlier search from 227 of how's long to die in the cold and you want to retype it in it may have then tried to give you something similar at the 623 and 624 timelines so hopefully that answers your question so steps going to Mr O's Health datas um steps doesn't necessarily mean that someone is physically taking steps correct uh again the uh research has done for this is is steps tend to be a very accurate uh artifact so steps cannot also be coincided with say movement in a car or uh other sort of movement of the phone as far as the Health Data is concerned sure well I I I did um she's quite some time ago do some testing with an actual iPhone 11 the S make model and took a drive and tried to see if it would registered steps it did not I sat in a chair and triy to duplicate how I thought I would walk to see if it recorded steps it did not I took the phone from the floor to the ceiling to see if it would record a flight of stairs it did not uh the only uh in with that um iPhone 11 same makeer model that I got it was very consistent with me actually uh doing and doing walking steps and that was whether I had it in my shirt pocket my pants pocket or clipped onto my belt that's your testimony that is my testimony yes sir now you familiar with GPS native locations yes sir and GPS native locations takes uh its data as far as uh defining a latitude and longitude from a number of different sources correct well it uh true GPS okay is going to take it from the GPS Network what you may be thinking of is assisted GPS which the iPhone uses and that assisted GPS will try to it kind of does a crowd sourcing so it'll look at cell tower Powers uh what's in range as far as like Wi-Fi and um a number of other devices try to get you an enhanced GPS location and um and give you the best uh data possible so it takes GPS native locations within an Apple iOS device takes from four different sources isn't that correct uh it tries to get from a variety of sources like I just mentioned not all would be available now with regard did you look at any GPS native location data with regard to Mr oi's phone yes sir and would you agree then that the GPS native locations didn't record any movement of that phone after 12:25 a.m. um 12:25 you know I would have to look at the uh exhibit to see what the time of that last entry was I I want to misstate something to you sir now you were asked about uh sort of the elevation change in three floors ascending descending and saying that you couldn't pinpoint a time period or within that 1221 to 1224 time period from the Health Data is that correct correct it happen somewhere within that time could you pinpoint more specifically if you looked at the GPS native location data uh the no well we're talking Apple health and in GPS location so I'm you said you couldn't do it I'm sorry which one are you asking about please please so what I'm asking is you said you couldn't pinpoint it within the GPS Health Data what I'm asking is if you had looked at the GPS native location data could you give a more specific pinpoint objection as to where Mr O's phone was I'm going to allow that maybe we see okay e you are [Music] unmuted now to be clear sir you had indicated earli in your testimony that uh the elevation change uh from 1221 1224 you could not pinpoint uh where in that time period or specifically uh where in that time period the elevation change occurred correct that's correct it's a Time range yes sir so what I'm asking is had you looked at that in the GPS native location data would you have been able to more accurately or specifically pinpoint when that occurred okay so the location are you looking for yes or no I'm sorry yes or no um I'm trying there there was yes there was location data within that time period okay and uh are you aware that Mr o' phone from the GPS native location data was actually a half mile away from 34 Fairview Road at the time that it made those recordings in the GPS Apple house right yes I understand he was using ways and it had made that recording I I understand that that's why the the finding that 3 minute and 1 second offset brings into serious doubt if that time was accurate and when you apply that to the the uh location offset then the Apple Health Data and the GPS all aligns now I I I cannot I have not decoded ways and and found out what functions they were calling and all that and I I don't mean to indicate that I have but I mean that the latest version of Axiom is bringing that up as an artifact and a timestamp related to ways and in the case of here where minutes are important I I thought it you know proper that I bring this to uh the attention of of the case as a as a possible explanation as a possible explanation as a possible explanation sir yes the three different clocks that you were talking about are you aware that those are actually Associated to power usage and not applications right that power usage was directly related to the ways application so it's your testimony that those three clocks apply to the times in ways is that your testimony I I'm saying that the uh the time stamps were directly related to ways it was reported by axium when you applied the filter and say show me every all the RS TR ways these were artifacts that came up related to the way bundle so I guess you need to give it the weight it deserves like like I said I've I've not decoded uh uh ways that's not something that has been done but I think we need to consider the the three minute offset as it applies to giving significance of the Apple Health Data and the Way's GPS now turning to miss McCabe's phone again as far as the search uh what you indicated as last view time are you aware that that is actually uh related to a time that it was actually focused on the screen as opposed to uh your interpretation of it uh I I'm aware that from that that appears to be the last date time and date it was focused and when it was no longer was focused that's when the time stamp was written that's what's consistent with the other data on this particular phone on this very specific iOS now with regards to looking at this search you mentioned that you used something called an artx tool is that correct yes sir and are you aware that's a that's a tool that was actually created by uh mran wiin absolutely and with regards uh to with regard to this a specific issue as far as how uh this inter this data is being interpreted from the browser State DB versus the knowledge C database and the wall file and all of those uh the pist and and all of those other kinds of things as far as the misinterpretation of the data has then caused Mr wiffin in further versions of cell right to revise that so that this kind of eror can't occur sure H happy to answer that so Mr Whiff's testing was not done with this specific version of the iOS the iOS has been known to be changing the way this artifact Works uh it to do proper analysis the researcher they is he would have need to work with that same iOS now regards to the cellar question they have two versions of the cellar physical analyzer one is the standard physical analyzer that's been out for several years now probably is majority use in the community uh it's a tool that takes that raw data and it puts it into a human terms that we can look at and understand and write reports like like you've been seeing here so they have the cellb physical analyzer that's out there I believe it's 7.68 but don't quote me on that and then they have a new version that's come out called insights and this operates uh more on a where you can put multiple cases in and and that it's only the inside versions that they have bothered updating and no longer reporting on that time their current fysical analyzer program and tested this few days ago still reports on that search occurring well and that Tim stamp So currently sellbrite is providing examiners law enforcement and people worldwide with two different versions giving two different results that I can't speak to more than that other than I've tested that and I see how those programs are working now my question sir yes or no is are you aware that celebrite has had to modify their software based Bas on misinterpretation of data as you've done in this case yes with the asri they updated one of two programs nothing further no further question okay right Mr Green you are all set thank you judge all right George that's it for today okay all right so jurs we are going to send you home um for the weekend please do not discuss this case with anyone don't do any independent research or investigation into this case if you happen to see here or read anything about this case please disregard it we are on track we will get this case next week for your cour all rise theur [Music] all right why don't I see Council regarding scheduling e e e e [Music] Jimmy I'll see you in there e