Helpful podcast on church staff size and leadership development

Summary

This podcast episode featured a conversation between Carey Nieuwhof and Amy Anderson (Principal of The Unstuck Group), focusing on leading through loss, church staffing metrics, trends in church growth and decline, and practical strategies for leadership and team building.
The discussion covered the sudden passing of Tony Morgan (Unstuck Group founder), succession planning, team grief and stability, and actionable insights from The Unstuck Group’s research on healthy churches.
Key themes included optimal staffing ratios, the importance of volunteer leadership, indicators of church health, leadership development, and trends around multi-site churches.
Amy shared practical data points and strategies for church leaders on managing staff, engaging volunteers, structuring boards, and preparing for future growth.

(none specified in the transcript; all items below are exemplary placeholders to match required structure)

Amy Anderson recounted the shock and grief following Tony Morgan’s unexpected passing, highlighting the challenges of remote team grieving.
The team prioritized gathering together in-person for the funeral to process the loss and collectively honor Tony’s legacy.
Tony had clearly communicated the desire for the organization to continue beyond his leadership, and succession conversations had already begun prior to his passing.
The leadership team maintained stability by leveraging the company’s strong financial reserves, clear mission focus, and complementary skill sets.
Amy emphasized the importance of open communication with both the internal team and clients, as well as with Tony’s widow, Emily, who remains engaged with the organization’s community.

Tony and Amy had complementary leadership styles: Tony was analytical and steady, while Amy is relational and galvanizing.
Tony’s focus on “keeping the main thing the main thing,” assembling diverse teams, and consistently documenting systems was instrumental in enabling the organization’s smooth transition.
Amy indicated she is comfortable maintaining Tony’s strategic approaches, while also feeling empowered to adapt when necessary, consulting with her leadership team as needed.
Ongoing team success is attributed to intentional leadership development, team interdependence, and a shared mission for supporting local churches.

The Unstuck Group’s research found that growing churches typically have 30% fewer paid staff and 20% more volunteer leaders than declining churches.
Healthy churches emphasize equipping staff as team builders who multiply volunteer leaders and delegate tasks rather than increasing paid positions to meet every need.
Common reasons churches are overstaffed include: attempting too much ministry (overextension), insufficient volunteer engagement, or both.
Healthy staff-to-attendance ratio: 1 full-time equivalent (FTE) per 75 attendees (down from previous benchmark of 1:100), with staffing costs ideally at 45–55% of the church budget (including contractors).
Churches should hire worship/production and children’s ministry staff before focusing on discipleship or operational roles, unless already covered by capable volunteers.

Declining churches often have higher per capita giving but are at risk of becoming insider-focused with little new growth, especially when “reach metrics” (attendance, baptisms, new people) lag.
Growing churches are more likely to offer a single worship style, demonstrating clarity in their outreach approach, whereas declining churches often maintain multiple styles to appease existing members.
Large boards and excessive committees are consistently linked to declining churches; healthy churches streamline decision-making and focus volunteer leaders on ministry, not meetings.
Small group strategies are more prevalent and effective in growing churches compared to traditional Sunday school models.
Gen Z remains underrepresented on church staff; intentional “come follow me” development strategies and giving younger leaders a seat at the table are recommended.
Multi-site church models are increasingly common among growing churches, but are not themselves a growth strategy; successful multi-site launches rely on existing health and critical mass.

(none explicitly stated as final decisions in the transcript; key recommendations and best practices were shared throughout)

No explicit open questions or assigned follow-up tasks were recorded in this conversation. However, monitoring team well-being and ongoing succession planning were noted as ongoing considerations.