I'm about to begin my meeting with J Petrelli of yield Max funds so we're here at J pelli Jay just take a moment to introduce yourself to my audience sure absolutely I'm Jay Petrelli CEO of zega financial but what really matters is we're the sub-advisor on the yield Max and the Defiance funds basically that means we get hired by the adviser to execute the strategy and do the trading on the funds we specialize in option trading there you go there's the the high-end form so so as the sub advisor are you saying that you do the actual trades every day yeah me and my team mostly my team right but we execute the strategy we tra we do the trades within the portfolios when you guys don't like a strike or you love a strike where we sold a call or we bought a long call or bought a put that's my team executing those traits okay are so it's actual people it's not an algorithm that's kind of set no the real people real people look there's rules don't get me wrong like all trading but no there's real people clicking the buttons all right so the advisor who's the the adviser makes the plan like like puts together the strategy and then so we know the sub-advisors and you guys actually do the trading and push the buttons so who makes the strategy who's the advisor above the sub-advisor yeah so the the advisor is the and in all of these funds that we're talking about it's uh the name of the company is title TI like Title Wave so there's the title trust they are the investment advisor for the funds and they do things like hire the accountants hire the Auditors hire the administrators hire the sub-advisor right hire distribution they get the lawyers together so they're kind of the they bring it all together and help execute the strategy now when it comes to the idea behind the strategy it's not always 100% them they obviously have to have buy in for the strategy but with yield Max for example like you have on the screen that was kind of a Confluence of multiple parties zga being one of them tidle being another two other parties all kind of got together and said hey we think we could do this uh weekly covered call thing uh using options to generate premium and then together that group then devises the strategy and then title takes it from there writes prospectuses handles the SEC all that kind of stuff yeah okay so so now we have a clear picture because you know it was a question as to who was doing the trading and the actual trades and was it a template okay and obviously you answered that what we were wanted to know is was it a template that was created for the first few funds and then just slapped on everything is that the case uh I mean the concept yes of course right once we saw how Tesla and oark and Appley uh and Nvidia took off in that first year in early 2020 3 then it was okay we need to do more of these things let's get them out there now from a trading perspective no uh every fund is a little different because the stocks are a little different right obviously Tesla is a very different stock and you've pointed this out on some of your videos Tesla's a hard stock to sell covered call for because the chart is so Jagged but you take a look at Amazon or apple significantly easier to run it right so just the option part is easier and so there is a different approach when it comes to the funds based on the underlying ticker you have to adjust for things like volatility and the outsize chance you can get a pop in the stock even if you're not getting paid for it right so you could see probably on my screen my account you could see I'm not a hater do you see that I have 25,000 shares of ulti and oh I'm up another $88,000 you know I did a video right and um should pop up in a second I did a live stream I can't find it now but I did a live stream and what was great about it was I actually did profit ripping I think that your funds are different than what people expect them to be or maybe perceive them to be in the beginning I think that a lot of these funds are momentum plays momentum place and what I mean by that is you got to catch them at the right time if you don't catch them at the the right time you could really be in trouble because overall the long-term strategy look let me put it this way this is how the community feels we are willing as if we're going to invest in Amy okay like Amazon you brought that up that was the perfect stock okay to pull off a covered call okay in recent history okay because what happened was they missed earnings okay they sandbagged the conference call and then they gradually gradually gradually came up the problem with this hold on one second the problem with this is that when we look at the covered call fund over the same amount of time it it's handicapped because the upside is limited and we understand this okay and so now I mean I don't know if Amazon is ever going to see 22 again okay but to us this looked like the perfect opportunity poor earnings last time slow and upward movement to the right okay is perfect for a covered call fund not Jagged like Tesla where it rips through all the strikes and everything yet when we look at the performance of Amazon it or amsy it's been terrible and the last payout really really upset people because they felt that they kind of got cheated they thought the performance was terrible for what in essence was 2 months I mean looking at this person looking forward to this it's time to ask real questions as to am and that's what this is about the community not about me Jay and we all appreciate you coming on I was just Gods smacked at the faure of eight weeks worth of trading I had plans of holding Amy as a consistent payer up until they showed they couldn't make it perform even well she uses the word cheated you out of a dividend I mean I've seen that's ridiculous that's like the camir saying he wanted to sue Sylvia after after the reverse split but we'll get to that another time but yeah this was poor performance for us you can't you see look you're a Trader you wrote a book right what was your book just tell me really quick I heard a YouTuber talking about it but what was it something yeah in 2010 wrote a book called uh buying hedge the five iron rules for investing over the long term it was about protecting the downside and managing volatility okay so you nothing to do with selling premium actually very little bit I I know but you you wrote the book on options trading right and it just seems that these funds for some reason are eroding as as an income investor I have made the decision to forego growth in order to get these exciting monthly payments with amsy so I gave up the growth for income but nobody ever decided that we wanted to give up our Capital nav erosion should wait let me just make the point so the thing is this for a single stock fund and then we'll move off single stock funds for a single stock fund to recover from the dividend in one month is hard sometimes they need momentum you need a momentum player like like Misty or invid at times okay that momentum may be waning but you need a momentum player okay so now when we look look I think I think there's a couple things to comment on first off uh look you are not I understand the concerns about the decline in the nav ETF but I think you've made this point before total return is what actually really matters unfortunately it's really hard for the average Joe to get a chart of total returns no I throw I I throw Total return out the window let me tell you well it's what you make in gen it's what you totally make and when you look at this period let's look at it this way a dividend should be a reward not a punishment ah ah so let's get to this wait so then we're not talking about a stock an ETF is very different from a stock Jay so we're we we are talking about when I get my dividend for ulti you're going to slap me with probably a $23,000 beautiful dividend which people would love I have 25,000 shares right now that dividend is dashboard money until you as a Trader okay do the options trading or the underlier let's let's not talk about L let's say Amazon the underlier must come back up to replenish that dividend otherwise I've not earned a dividend we've just moved the money from the top line to my buying power I will disagree with you on the on the because of the uniqueness of these stocks of these e single stock ETFs the idea is we will distribute what we made in option income I can't really control what happens to the underlying stock obviously but what I can control is how much premium we bring in so let's say for example a stock is down uh 20% over a three month let's just say 5% over a one month period but if I was able to earn 1% or two% from selling options we're still going to distribute so in your example the reward for us is the time Decay that we earned you giving up the upside as you said you forego the upside in a covered cost strategy you giving up the upside the reward is the time premium I'm going to give you those $2 despite what happens to the underlying stock so what's happen stocks down and then a distribution it really pushes the nav down it pushes the price of the ETF down but we're pushing out the reward of the option success but so it's a it's look I agree it's a New Concept it's different when you look at the jeepies and the qil LS of the world right when they lose money they'll still give you a little bit of a dividend they hold a lot back for yield Max we give you everything because that's your reward for giving up the upside I like the way you positioned it I just think we look at the reward is a different thing right you're talking appreciation we're just talking option income I'm talking in a simple simple manner that most of the people in the community talk about okay Jay I give you $100,000 to trade options for me you make $5,000 in premium and you give it to me it should be a bonus okay it shouldn't be moved from one part of my account to the no that's not what's happening Jay when I get let me let me explain you give me a $23,000 uh dividend on ulti okay I've gotten $24,000 dividends from Amy okay when you paid $97 cents it was epic okay and what happened was my and I really want to talk more about ulti but my account went down by 25,000 it actually it and then when I was paid the dividend it came back but it came back in the bottom portion where if I was to withdraw that before the stock came up to cover that dividend I am just withdrawing from my account the dividend is fictitious it's not really real until it's earned back you can't not agree with that I well I guess it's what we how we Define as earned when we pay that dividend an ulti that's time Decay that's premium we earn now if the underlying stock went down right if the underlying stocks go down the value of the fund will go down we earn that time Decay we don't pay out more than we earn in time Decay regardless of what the charts can look like we will always pay out what we earn in the call Premium that we sell even I think if you're not profitable yeah so there's sure even if the underlying stock drops the overall fund drops because Amazon or you pick we could pick whatever you want to pick AI that we held an ulti you want to pick paler that's an ulti well that's having a good night but let's pick at a different one that we have in there right uh Viking Therapeutics and Alti started up high dropped today we still make money on the short calls that's what we'll pay out in your example where you said if you give me $100,000 and I make $5,000 in premium if the underlying stock stays the same you would agree hey give me 5K that's what you made but if the underlying stock dropped and pushed your account down to 90 I'm still going to give you the 5,000 all right because that's what we earned in those time now this is unusual this is you are right this is not the way ETFs typically pay their distributions and their dividends and I think you know in hindsight as we look back you know there's a lot to learn here because if if we're overd Distributing sometimes because of that time Decay that we earn but it's it's not in it's it's viewed negatively like if we make if a stock makes if we make 30% in a stock right but we distribute 50% because of the time Decay you're going to be down 20% on the price of the of the ETF so don't you realize that that's damaging investors it well most how daging investors tell me how well let's let's let's pull let me go back to a chart okay it's the easiest way let's get rid of all the easy stuff uh let's throw away Disney I mean people would think hey this is a pretty safe thing I'm in Disney and all of a sudden they get wrecked over time but that's again single stock issue throw that away we won't even talk about this this thisne is a great example to go through because the stocks down 20% I'm just going to pick a r this is stock related this is specific stock related I want to talk about your trading so I'll tell you what I want to jump straight to Alti okay and and you know what I want to talk about reverse splits because I really wanted to skip over Tesla because the haters will say oh that's an easy target okay but this thing reverse split and what happened was everybody forgot people lost a ton of their shares or a fraction of their shares they thought that the dividend would make up for it and it didn't okay and so we look here right let's look at this person this was one of your interviews with the sweaty pumpkin tesley for example last dividend before the 1.2 one for two split was 81 cents so people assume the next dividend would be double that cuz you took half their shares no it was 81 cents again why wasn't it a162 so half your shares dis appeared and your return went down by half at the same time please H explain how a split makes no difference to my portfolio do you want to jump into splits now and then talk about Al sure sure sure sure so look that in that particular example I mean you have to look at some other months on the split well let's back up and just explain to the people what a split is in your terminology sure sure sure yeah so what we it's called a reverse split I think everybody knows a forward split when you a positive thing in most that's definitely consider when a stock forward splits that's usually a strong thing we saw Nvidia do it we saw micro strategy do it we saw smci do it let's leave that one out reverse split is very different the reverse split is the other way so what happens is you end up with a higher share price but less shares so let's say you had a 100 shares at $20 a share right $2,000 in value right and we do uh a one for two reverse splits so you at 100 we're going to take you down to 50 so the investor I want to go slow like a 10-year-old so the investor loses 50 shares half the shares right but it's the same value because the price goes up right it's it's just the time of the exchange it's the same value it's like two fives for a 10 right that's ex uh it's two fives it's you had two fives we're gonna give you a 10 great great but I have half my shares so let's see you have half the shares right so let's go ahead now and take a look about how that works out all right for people over time um what what's this new one you you're involved in this uh Sylvia thing I WNY y Hold On Em is and Mary instead of N is a Nancy well I'm in New Yorker you know how it is it never leaves you okay so let's go here so these people right had a what they have a three for one split so $15 right am I right with this at $15 they went to $45 this was recently that's right okay so that happened on I think it was hold on let me put that in there II sorry I'm just I'm typing along with you no no problem no problem so what are they like a Defiance it was July all right so Defiance is like a white label version of Def ience like basically I mean of yield Max like you guys or title does everything for them and they're just kind of like white L like offbrand like a Kmart well they are a sponsor of the fund and we could get it to definitions but you're right like Sylvia for sure is the face of defiance we do the option trading correct that's what I thought okay so look at this person he talking about Defiance not only aosion okay and Defiance the funds after the three for one split going weekly after the split helps hide the decline but the equivalent dividend payments are down significantly during a high volatility premium or a high volatility time when they thought premiums would be up so these people and I even heard another YouTuber who you're going to be on his show but unfortunately anyone who disagrees with him he bans and silences them okay so this person here ask Jay well this is QQQ y this is different I don't want talk about too many things but Defiance what what I'm getting to let me just get to the point I think it's one of two things okay this is on an index all right this thing is losing money and they're paying less so people lost a majority or a portion of their shares okay and then got less dividends and the fund just kept eroding now Jay I'm going to be a little bit blunt for a second and and you please excuse me I understand it's a business and and that we need to keep money in the fund because that's how the fees are generated and reinvesting and all and all that is positive and good the only thing is this a reverse split is seen by the community as a failure of the fund managers to produce or trade properly or overpaying the premiums as a marketing move to go ahead and bring more people in knowing it's destroying the n and the reverse split covers up the past like if ulti were to reverse split let's start closing some windows if ulti was to reverse split okay and it would look great at $50 it really would but the problem is if the conditions continued okay to trade as if they were in a matter of time it will just have be like tesle and it will have to reverse spit again and all of this time it makes the fund managers look great money keeps coming in but investors are losing and we want you to win let me of course we want our investors to win absolutely or you put yourself out of business and I'm not against you please don't take this wrong no no that's okay look we're we're we're talking about the truth here I think when you look at Define it's a little different story than the yield Max story but I want to talk about reverse splits let's talk about reverse splits yeah so the idea around reverse splitting I would tell you the yield Max I'm gonna say sponsors and management the yield Max folks don't want to reverse split it doesn't generate any value by the way doesn't generate more funds for uh uh more assets for the fund like doesn't push up it buys you time it buys you time so you're at $7 and you've said it yourself you want them all to be at 40 or 50 bucks it's much sexier it's much sexier on Wall Street it looks better and it gives you a long time for people to notice that we've eroded to to nothing I'll give you the I'll give you the reasons why we like 50 bucks better than 20 because we're launching all the funds going forward or launching at $50 it has nothing to do with the Optics it has to do ultimately with what happens on the underlying and this is not an ulti scenario we'll get back to that but look what happens with smci stock gets cut half the challenge for any ETF is that $5 number if you're at5 foot long right every time you bring upci I think about how they just got your $5 foot long dividend and then got walled by single stock risk single that's exactly it and so what happens is you don't want a $5 ETF because two things happen first your broker is going to move you to Clos transactions only right so while we understand that you don't want us to go and reverse split at $5 there's nothing you can do but sell the stock or hold it you won't be able to add to it so $5 is a really key level at Brokers and there is also an issue with margin ability we have plenty of clients that like to margin and buy on and borrow against their underlying ETFs you might have done that once or twice I don't know perhaps and then the other item and this is a very minor item is the fact that you have options on your ETFs and you want to have more strikes because it makes it easier to trade but there's no change in value to the fund there's no benefit to the manager I could care less I couldn't care less about the Optics on the yield Max ETF prices it's more important about performance and the distributions for us than it is anything else but you have to have a product that people can actually buy so believe it or not when you do the reverse split it hurts volume on the fund right when you're trading at$ five and you do a million shares see that Trad at 50 you know what I see you know what I see as as a consumer now this is a consumer and investor perspective I see that it covers up a bad history people forget people are simple they'll forget the reverse splot they forgot Tesla and they're still buying it now you're going to a big dividend freak off in about about a week okay with a bunch of dishwashers and people who you you changed everything for and started paying weekly but you did it smart okay you didn't can of destroy the funds you just changed the dates I have to tell you if you destroyed them no fund has the velocity no stock let me say has the velocity to pay out weekly and not ER Roe that's a recipe for disaster and nobody else can do it not roundhill no no you're right you you're you're right about it it's why we didn't go to weekly on every stock we thought you know the Staggering would help of course there was that transition like the Amy comment or even the misy I didn't see a misy comment but everybody knew that was a very large distribution that kind of caught up seven weeks but I would I would tell you're right it's too hard to trade weekly and generate weekly distributions right with the Defiance ones you're trading daily it's easier to go weekly because you're getting five or you know four or five trades in in a week whereas with the yield Maxes that have this four-week period oh and now you're getting 13 distributions a year instead of 12 minor issue watch for that right you're going to get one extra when you go four weeks it's easier to get a consistent dividend and distribution uh in that scenario so I would so I'm glad thank you for recognizing that we've had people ask put them all the weekly just we're not going to do that yeah and you're going to hear talk like roundhill is coming out with weeklys no they're not they're coming out with the same structure that you're coming out with they're going to launch four or five funds at once so talking about that okay the community is really pissed off about the potential you didn't say it but the potential of a reverse split to ulti there's been a massive uprising of people saying they will leave all yield Max funds that would be it they had it things like this now to a fund manager if I was you and your a position secretly I'd be thinking like well you know what screw everybody all right we could tell them going to get delisted look we're going to get delisted we're going to you know oh they're not going to let you buy margin it's going to be terrible right so I know they're real things but there's no reason the fund should have gotten to $10 you wrote the book on options trading we are not now we're throwing away market conditions now we're throwing away single stock risk now we arrive at my baby ulti okay I've been looking at what you've been trying I don't know what this Donald Trump thing you all nuts with right now but throw that out the window you have position you have a diamond in the rough that nobody else has you have a fund that is traded by professional op options Traders led by the guy who wrote the book on how to hedge and do collars and and double back flips and reverse spreads and whatever butterflies you want to call it all right and he said I don't know maybe you're not telling people in the office how to trade all right all right maybe look at the Holdings there's a ton of different new strategies since the middle of October we're at $9 $10 okay every day now I said that I heard you say oh but we didn't say we're going to do it there's no threat we know your desire we know you're all sitting down in the offices in New York where you had Rod the crossdesser and everybody there right for the big freak off the pumpkin everybody who talks bad about you except Robert is a nice Rod is a nice accountant from New Jersey I don't know why he had to tell everybody he had a vasectomy on the show I was mortified his I might have missed that episode oh it was a pissa anyway I haven't stopped ever since then so let's keep moving so ult it can make money neutral long or short it can sell covered calls on stocks it owns covered call it could just buy stocks random stuff now five months ago you I hate to say this because you made fun of my shadow and she's a lot smarter than your dumb stuff okay cuz let me tell you I heard you with the pumpkin in Disguise on another show called um taking returns or to it was five months ago on a podcast right okay and I'll believe you oh you want me to tell you I have notes no I believe you I don't remember but I believe with the pumpkin all right and and I just watched it the other day I was shocked you were like we have 200 stocks to choose from an ulti okay yes screening system 200 stock and you're using AI okay to screen this is what you said to screen the stocks and then you said that you use a chat B GPT and you did say you were using the one that you paid for remember that you said I'm using the one that you paid for not the free one specifically I talked about we're just using it to help us find like pending material lawsuits or pending Acquisitions call right landmines landmines land landmines but we come up with the list on a different basis first like chat doesn't do the initial screen I know I know but but avoiding landmines is not really like hey we did really great and we're doing great trading well I wish we could say we avoided all the landmines we haven't there's been some losers in the in ulti happen so we call her the ugly girl okay so this fun let me tell you I'm excited about it cuz has so much potential to do so many things okay and I I didn't know if you had a guy named Aldo in the back room trading whatever it was if you were use an AI I was going to say fire everybody let's clean no but seriously can't you make this work can't you make it reverse not work without a reverse SP every reverse split has been detrimental to investors and I can pull out charts and show you so I we would there's not a desire to reverse split there's no one going I can't wait till we can do the reverse split no we're not absolutely not nobody wants to do the reverse split but it's only a matter of operations it's really it that's the only reason we would do it oh my God that's such snow that's like smoke that's total truth it's a matter operations you think the benefit what is our benefit of the reverse split forget the [ __ ] up F and people listen people will forget that it'll pay a little less end up'll be like it doesn't leave the chart people in crypto have a 72-hour memory you think it's any different here they don't remember look at tesley nobody would be buying into it if it would KN if they knew the past first of all it would probably be at zero if you didn't reverse put it it would probably it would probably be like an old like subzero and a half right now or whatever it would be yeah I mean it just te I watched you know I lost $331,000 because I shorted Tesla it was two earnings ago and he came out and they had bad earnings and he told all kinds of stories and he crushed me okay in my overnight play and I watched Tesla around then be $130 and I watched it go up to like $230 and back then Tesla was $12 and now it's $11 and it just I it's the stri what I think it is with Tesla my honest opinion is tell me if I'm wrong could it be the prospectus is archaic that it needs to be more free or is it just Tesla is too volatile for a covered golf fund uh it's I'm gonna give you three things so the first is you're right we updated the prospectus to give us a little more flexibility and use call spreads instead of short calls the other day when Tesla was up 22% in a single day in the past we would never we would have never captured as much as we did I think we're up 12 133% that day hard to find many cover call strategies that'll be up 133% a day right so we're amending we've updated that so now we have you know a couple extra tools at our disposal so I think that's the first thing the second is price return is different than what you actually make right when you get that cash if you're going to leave it in cash I'm sure you're going to want to dig into this one a little bit but if you leave that in cash you've decided not to invest you've decided to take money out of the fund we give it to you to let you choose what you want to do with it but when you look at what happens in the total Returns the total returns are not nearly as bad as what the price returns look like they are very different I don't care about total returns I throw it out the window I don't care why that's because a dividend no a dividend should be a bonus earned on top of what I've invested thinking like yield like bond yields right you're thinking I'm thinking money Jay I'm thinking money that I can go out and buy stuff with okay real life you want to use it as income so then you but you're telling me I can't you say that I need to give you back at least half of the dividend you give me sure yeah that's ridiculous invested that's ridiculous invested well where's my bonus for you unless you're trying to take money out like you said if you want to use these as a paycheck if the Ling stock drops listen we talking about getting fired fired we're talking about ulti we're not talking about we talk about Alti you don't even have an index to tie to yeah I mean ulti is because it has that diversification and it has all those different tactics I think that you're right ulti has probably it's the most interesting fund yes we trade it's the hardest one to trade it's you got to pick stocks you pick the tactic you're naturally and deliberately picking the most volatile stocks on the street that can get dangerous and there's plenty of times jokingly I said it before where we had some stinkers in there and we got burned absolutely we definitely stepped on a landmine but it wasn't ending to the fund because you limit the amount that you put in any individual ticker but when you look at the Holdings in this fund it's it's we're going after o an earnings play or o someone's got a you know news coming out and the options tell us which stocks to buy that's the driver behind ulti can ulti go up yes of course ulti can go up will ulti get back to $20 not tomorrow because we'd have to redistribute out do do you have to do you have to pay out less do you have to say okay you know what you [ __ ] are going to get 55 cents for ulti right now okay until we fix this and then gradually the nav can come up and maybe the nav is more important to you than actually getting the cash out of the fund in dividends listen if I if I want to just get cash out of a fund I could put $100,000 in my checking account take $20,000 a month and say I was making 20,000 a month until there was no more money left that's not the point of your funds is it no no we still want appreciation this is why return matters all right this why return matters but we want appreciation so talk to me about realiz this can we save Al can prent a reverse doing fine here's what I don't want all of us are saying when I people want to sell because they're saying look I don't want to sit here and all of a sudden get a press release that and I know you're not just going to do one Jay I'm smart you're going to do about four five six of them at one time one nice boom Band-Aid rip all right yeah yeah like five of them like five of them all 50 bucks rip the Band-Aid right off maybe yes I know I know you guys are doing over there you think I want it's not a desire for us but it doesn't hurt the end investor I understand wait did you say shown examples wa the dividend dropped you said it doesn't hurt the investor it doesn't hurt the value the investor had reimposed time at the time of the conversion but at after the conversion if the fund performs the same way they their share price will Decline and Decline and Decline and so will their dividend Decline and Decline and decline we do another reverse split who cares 1% but that will happen regardless of whether it was reverse split or not if the fund is in decline if the fund sucks if the fund sucks that will happen Jay and thank you again for being here man I know I'm really hard I know this is not the interview you thought but it's fun it's it's fine no it's good let's I mean if people are feeling this way let's talk through this oh I got emails I got all kinds of things I I believe you I believe you I've seen your comments I I I read them but the if the fund is in Decline it won't matter if we do the reverse split right ultimately if we're dropping regularly because we're overd Distributing not my word words but if we are over Distributing or because we're Distributing the time value despite the underlying stocks all going down right the fund nav the price of the the fund will continue to drop regardless of the reverse split or not that doesn't matter the dividends will drop regardless of the reverse split then that would mean the fund sucks if that Contin do that Alti sucks what can we do look Al Al's I'm just looking right now ulti like I picked a random you looking at your pants I'm looking I'm looking at ult I got who said I'm wearing pants um if you look at this ul's up 7% but the since August but the price of it is down 15 right so that's exactly what you're talking about were we ma the fund made magic wait a minute the fund is up but the price is down how does this work mag gave you the cash gave you the cash gave you the cash when I get my $20,000 dividend this month from Alti I can't I should run from the dividend I should literally sell everything from the dividend and then come back if you can make the price this why it matters like the this is why these are bullish tactics right like you you pointed this out before you should do this on stocks you should buy yield Max stocks that you think you're going up if you're bearish on a stock don't buy that yield Max right if you think coin is going to go down you don't buy Co Pony I got 24,000 shares right in front of me of Fiat but you got Fiat that's the inverse and I'm up $8,000 since the co Market let me tell you tomorrow the Market opens I'm going to dump that eight I'm going to dump all that on those Schmucks soon as the Market opens then they line up with their Robin Hood app at Market thinking that the Market's open all night and they Place their orders oh I sell into that bump oh that'll be fun I just need the options Market to go that long we'll see what happens the overnight listen let's getting aside let me go through cuz this about the people let me see if I had any other really things that mattered okay yeah um okay what is this Oracle I always oh this is for the end I'm going to give you the end now so you don't forget okay okay I I want because I want this to be really good so and she's that's she talks about it here offering him the opportunity to continue the DI we're not done yet don't go anywhere you got to go I don't have to go I'm here okay I'm me too offering him the opportunity to continue to dialog dialogue with you 30 days later is nothing short of brilliant so what I want to do is when we're done I want to offer you the opportunity Jay in like 30 days because I think that when I'm really done with you you're going to have a couple of things to think about and again I want to spear had a new dialogue in yield Max about these reverse splits and about the what we consider Capital depletion never erosion is like so 2020 22 okay Capital depletion and I want to give you a chance to come back in a month from now I'm not going to chase you you have my email you know and you say hey Oracle I want to come back and and let's talk again so I wanted yeah if you'll have me on I'll come back of course course of course so it's on you I have your you have my email address I'm not going to chase you around let's just go before Christmas we're gonna set up something okay all right I know you're going to Cambodia soon I want to wish you luck well we'll leave Cambodia out of it okay so let me see if that's complain about the viance no reverse split Alti the fun has so much potential you see and I cherry-picked the ones out of you know I got rid of ridiculous people the problem is yield Max pays out all the option premium they receive not the profits from Trading if truly paid just the profits ulti could be amazing on this point reverse splits are really terrible and Signal weakness long term and this probably I don't know what they said but again people I think probably that's that is that is accurate that this person understands we distribute the option premium we make that that is 100% accurate and look that was a hard decision to make uh we didn't have to make that decision we could have held him back like what you know the qds and the jeppy do of the world right we could have held back those premiums we decided to dist out what what if you did that to try to help try to help your people okay have a fiduciary responsibility to help them maintain their capital I know it's yield Max but that's still a maximum yield if they want to maintain the capital then put it right back into the fund I'm giving it out you to decide what to do with it used to tell us that in bit connect you ever hear bit connect what a I don't know what bit connect is it was a big pyramid Ponzi scheme okay not that this we're not a pzi I know I know but they used to tell you reinvest because they want to keep the money on the platform that's where the money is look it's the value in your portfolio that matters right you have no do 48,000 of Fiat right that you were showing me great if I distribute $20,000 to you then just put it and you want to keep it at 400,000 put it right back in what the hell you give it to me for that's ridiculous you want the cash you want the to you gave it to me my wait wait you gave gave me this money right you didn't add it to my account it came from my account I have to the nav has to come back up that's right wait so now you give this money soon as you give it to me it's taxed in a very special way it's like I was working at a doctor's office okay and I'm the doctor and I earned $20,000 for the week or whatever and I didn't pay any taxes on it so thank you for that the tax bill special tax that no nobody okay yeah Rock when talk about that basic basic what it is keep it simple it's bad Jay you should give me the money I shouldn't have to give you any [ __ ] back I should only have to give it back if I want more if so what's the difference if I hold it back and leave it in the fund and then you don't go down by 20,000 you say Hey you kept my 48,000 or I give it to you and then you buy back up to the 48,000 what's the difference the difference is if we hold it it's going to be the same value doesn't a little bit less and you're preventing a little less you're you're it seems that way but you are preventing reverse splits then we'll get accused of oh now you're stealing what that person you're cheating me out of my dividend oh come on those people are ridiculous look it's we could look it is a it is a deliberate decision we've made right not nobody else is really Distributing even you look at our other competitors in the space they don't distribute everything that they make from the option selling that's good look at look at my favorite is xdt it just C and it actually appreciates sometimes they pay out more sometimes they pay out less but they are not you you are maximum yield that's what attracts everyone we just want to be able to keep some of our Capital just a little bit Jay I mean you want 80 90 the syvia wants 90% back okay to keep state capital flat thanks Sylvia it's like a slap in in the face and I got those numbers from Rod your resident account we just held back 90% then and only paid out 10% that's better or worse I need a happy medium Jay all right I need talking I need my ulti to stay around $10 1025 here and there and you pay me 65 cents a share okay and I'm happy everybody's happy o becomes we do we do like uh you know how like uh with stocks IPO there's like the the Market maker the the people that launch it The Syndicate doesn't let it go below the opo price we'll keep it though doesn't go below 10 bucks distribute up to 10 is that what you're saying keep it a 10 I like that okay let's let's stop joking for a minute what are the odds that I don't get reverse spit in ulti I don't care about any other funds ulti is unique Al is really dependent upon your abilities straight up it's on you listen we can't I don't I here's what I would tell you we are deliberately putting on positions to not take big hits anymore like if you look at our portfolios almost all of them are now risk defined positions so we're taking out the surprise declines it's definitely something we've heard people have said to us different channels different methods look I'm willing to make a little less than premium please don't ride these things down and so we're building we're using spreads we're using collars as you said before so we're taking action to prevent that but we go through a bare Market let's say we go through a 2022 I think the underlyings in Alti you're going to get hit pretty hard regardless of how much risk management we go through the underlying will drop and I will tell you we no guarantees one way or another but we don't want the St we don't want the ETF to go to five bucks but can't you employ some downside strategies sure we are we absolutely are now that's what I'm telling you right now if you look in the portfolio look in the Holdings I know that file is almost impossible POs to read but you'll see long puts those are protective you'll see spreads instead of just long you'll see I know you made fun of me before you see an iron Condor I think the Amazon the Apple those are condors those are very well risk defined positions if they go against the funds it will be in a limited amount Jay how can we avoid a reverse split and ulti I think I just answered that so you're saying that we might might be able to avoid it it is definitely avoidable can't guarantee it but it's avoidable at what point we would prefer get aess PR not to reverse it when should we look when should we worry at $6 look at mnie it's garbage it's at seven when should we worry that one probably is getting pretty close if it's at seven I thought it was eight but maybe not a great day today all right so let me ask you I look I think you should as it approach it takes time too right you have announcements you don't want to go below people are going to start dumping people are going to start dumping I get it I I understand that sentiment I don't agree with it by the way because I again if this if the fund is going down it's going down for the like you said reasons that aren't related to anything else the fund is losing money and it's deining bad fund for us then that's then that's not great that so but you like the fund because of the potential we would agree with you there's a lot of potential in Al it's like hope it's the ugly girl you always go back everybody's been with her okay everybody she went down on everybody Jay okay very few people have a good story looking you laugh for real do you laugh when I make my J Diddy oil comments have you heard those it's always fun stuff listen to your comments you're like you're like the shock shock of yield Max man it's always fun I came in and I turned them all upside down oh you have no idea all right so I I I have an idea so so we have a chance with Al okay is what you're saying yeah have a chance okay we don't want to do it either that's not a desire there's no benefit for us to do the reverse I'm going to tell you how your competitors are going to beat you and I'm going to tell you how you were the first I don't want you to become the dinosaur roundhill came on really strong okay and then they pissed on Dave Maza a little bit because we found found out he had ETF in a box okay I have no problem with ETF in a box you can Outsource anything okay I think title does that white label whatever okay um your competitors will beat you I think by coming out with single stock covered call funds with different prospectuses do you think that that is a that could give you a Winning Edge different trading Styles like an amsy a tesley all those but with a newer prospective that looked back and said hm this happened this happened and this happened what if we did this so I'll say it a different way with a modified investment strategy right versus just covered calls or covered call spreads getting more flexibility different objectives within the fund versus just selling cost premium or income premium sure I would tell you I'd like to tell you more but it's absolutely stuff on the on the drawing board for us look we you're right we were first we think we're an innovator in the space we will continue to innovate this even just in these minor ways that we adjusted the dividend schedule or adding in the call spreads there is more to come from us we are definitely not done yet but we're learning as we're going everybody's learning as we going only two years old I'll give you an idea okay A a hybrid approach to yield and nav call it call it smart yield quotes Mor Max whatever you want so if we had like uh like a defined you know yield like Hey we're gonna stay in this range somehow it's related to the volatility of the stock right you get more for a Tesla than you do for an apple right but if that kind of a product that would be more like the hybrid idea right where it's hey don't distribute everything get more upside yes get some call Premium but we're interested in you know a distribution but you don't have to you know hurt the nav that's kind of what you're telling me right right about I think we've heard you we've heard we've heard the community on that one okay so you heard the community on that you heard the community on ulti okay um you heard the community on reverse buts okay we totally understand Jay at the time of the exchange yes it's an exact even exchange But as time goes on it's bad now you're getting Le why do they get less dividends like the people at at and I could pull up that example again we've seen a Tesla example and we seen a Defiance example the share they had less shares that were worth more at the time but then slid down but why did they get so much less dividends in other words if these people think simple they think hey I lost half my shares but I'll get double the dividends to make up for the shares and they don't why does that happen Okay you you're not going to love my answer but it's because when you get the if you had reinvested the shares your dividend would be the same not the per share but the amount you get paid so when you divest to cash when you take the dividends you're deliberately reducing your exposure to the fund you're saying okay great thanks for that nice dividend J 5% this month I'm going to put it over here you're letting the fund position decline we're paying out at the same rates yes I know varies right Tesla varies between 50 and every once in a while there's 100 in there but generally it's 50 60% it's paying at the same rate but your position is smaller because you've divested to cash you're not putting it back in and I don't look you could choose how much you want to put back in but you're letting it's almost like you said before if I could hold stock and just take some and sell some every week you're reducing your exposure by not going back in but that your choice of what to do with the dividends right so the rate has not changed right we pay a very similar rate if you look back at all the Tesla distributions they generally stay in the same range one of the more consistent ranges of rates but your position is small so how do we explain this guy can you see my screen well that might have look I'll look at that exact one why look can you see that last oh I could I could read it but I have to look at what happened back when was that uh February of this year I think when we did the split this so I'd have to go look and I'm not dodging it I gotta go look this was the last interview I think that you just did with the pumpkin the sweaty pumpkin um this kid anyway yeah um so they said half their shares disappeared and I mean basically people want to know where's the benefit benefit to the investor you know and they see it I'm not going to keep repeating myself I told you how to see it like a smoke screen yeah I got you but I'm I'm looking the dividend adjusted was the same before and after I'm looking on Bloomberg right now the distribution was 80 cents and then it was 80 but that's adjusted for the split already it's adjusted for the split so you got more you got you ended up you didn't get half but even even the Comm were complaining so bad two weeks ago when they got their Defiance payout they were complaining so bad that Defiance is a little different story Defiance is a little different story so first off they had a partial week wasn't a full week at one point I'm not sure exactly what they're complaining about but Defiance is actually Sylvia and team have heard the comments about don't distribute as much the rate has gone down in an effort to stabilize the nav while they've gone to weeklys so that's an example where the nav is holding on to more of the uh of the district distributions now the chart doesn't look great because you know rut has been kind of sideways to down people people lost a tremendous amount of shares and and now they're paying less and the shares are still going down Jay I'm not trying to give you a hard time this is what people are saying not me I'm not in defiance I'm I'm loyal to you guys I like your stuff thank you thank you but that you could see though that the it is not as Jagged on the dips and that that you have there on iwm right this looks like an old woman's ass this is horrible this is yes I uh I would tell you that it was that but the rate has dropped I will agree the distribution by the way it's still higher than almost any of the competitors out there in the zero DTE space I think it's still kicking out 50 60% on an annualized basis I just I just don't feel about good about them you know was I know you're equating the drop in the divid end with the reverse split but I would tell you those are two different things and the switch to weekly was a third thing there's a handful of things going on with the fins all at once isn't wasn't this one called Jey oh that was the one that is yeah that was the S SMP one now it's w DTE because it sounded like this one right yeah you can't talk about that you probably got to ceist you can't you can't talk about that I wish I could I wish I could I think you could put the the the pieces together who made who made us change our name did I did obviously right but you know what that says about Defiance again not specifically you guys okay but about Defiance as a company that was some sketchy [ __ ] to try to bite off their name and they deserve to be stopped okay I'm I'm not going to comment on the name I thought it was an interesting play by funny enough there is a JP Morgan yield Max nobody cares about it I know but if I opened you know a credit card and I called it Chase I think or Master Card I would have trouble if it wasn't Chase with a z Chase yeah right you know so um let me see if there's anything else I wanted to talk to you about the Navar roia you see like this is why I I don't even want to buy into the ymac like I think y mag is a good a a good idea right and when I look at y mag uh what the hell am I doing ym okay magnificent four and a half right so when I look at this it's a good idea but when I look at the track record of all these funds individually it would eat my Capital I we got six months here you got a six Monon chart there what do you want take a look at this what do you want I I'm I I'll look at well I well we could look at y mag if we want iwm I got to go back to iwm in that chart right ETF is actually positive for that period of time that positive for what herpes it's positive in gains to It's Made 8 and a half% if you include the distributions ah you're going back to Total return that means that you got you got fake dividends so we got fake dividend we got to pay tax on they count on your returns though it's money you made yeah but not really it's like vaporware it's like VAP we have a difference of opinion on that one I could tell again I'll tell you what Alie you give me a $233,000 dividend my account balance goes down by 23,000 okay yeah my net asset value says that I'm actually in a loss by 23,000 once I get the dividend because the price changes it goes X dividend the price shows a loss that's true right so then what happens is if you do not bring that sucker up by some magic Hocus Pocus Wall Street options stuff in your book and you pay the next dividend I'm whacked again and then I and then my put the money back in it why look let me ask you this wait I'm gonna ask a different way I'll ask it different way so your expectation is guys you need to trade and make a 100% a year when it comes to trading no you got to make something no you got to make something on top of my Capital my capital is for you to trade options with that's the only way to have that happen you need to make 100% if you're going to give me 100% 100% you need to make just give me we make 50 give give me anything I give you $100,000 okay just add something to my freaking account I think there'd be a lot of people disappointed if we cut the dividend by three quarters I I pick any number you want Jay I'm just saying that now now we're negotiating on the r no Jay Jay if I fell into a coma right and I came out my fund would be depleted to [ __ ] not if you put it on a drip I I don't drip but there's penicillin now maybe a different kind of drip I got you um I I don't believe in drip I don't believe in reinvesting in these funds I chunk invest okay I wait until the div you're you're choosing to let us pay you out in cash on what we're making like you've said this this is a you said this right you're giving up the upside growth yeah covered call strategy you're getting cash for that right right that's all we're executing the same thing of a covered call it's almost like if I was managing an individual account I know we've we've covered this already if someone said hey I want you to sell calls and then give me the cash we would but if the stock went down while we're doing it we'd still give them the cash on their portfolio I don't want to talk about a stock anymore because we have single stock risk but it it's fine it could be the whole world goes down who knows what happens with the election and we go down 20% between now and the end of the year here who cares individual stocks everything's going down so same thing will happen are you guys and and I don't mean this to be funny Are you seriously still using chat GPT to choose from for Alti all we're doing is once we've chosen our stocks once we've picked the 2030 we're going to go with we do a screen to see if there's anything out there we didn't pick up that's it it doesn't pick the stocks for us how do you what do you say to somebody that feels like me I started the Amy Army I came into this honestly and it's funny because I I'm I'm beyond an accredited investor okay and I could tell and when you're into this and you start to see how it works you're like you know what this is for poor people it's almost like a trick with the dividends right so we want authentic payments not what feels like a marketing illusion this is what the people that's your choice and you could you could make that decision yourself that's the point you could choose to not let your amount go down over time I mean I know I keep saying the same thing I'm sorry but and I I hear you but it's up to you we let you choose what you want to do with those dividends versus US choosing and not letting you choose what to do with the cash we if we held it we're not giving it to you and we're making those decisions right we give it to you you get to choose what to to do with it take it or build your balance back up so in Alti if I wanted to keep my balance the same what percentage would I have to give you back of my dividend if you want to keep the balance 100% the same and unchanged yeah obviously all of it back holy [ __ ] I I oh my God I don't even edit I can't even are you kidding me are you kidding me I'll run right now unchanged that was the question oh my god I didn't even mean to curse Jay now I can't I don't care about monetization you know that that was natural J I almost fell off wait Alti one you just said when you get paid you're going to get $23,000 paid and your value will drop and so I have to give you the 23,000 back in the form of reinvesting but you don't have to give it all if you don't want to I want my balance to stay the same but aren't you going to earn anything like the coming month that's the same same thing for any stock any anybody not even an not even an ETF I'm not saying to withdraw on X dividend date I'm saying I thought you were ask on X dividend dat no no I'm not stupid I'm not in the K's Discord we're here together it's me and you don't laugh I can't edit this out you're going on there next week you're going to have to bleep that other one there's no bleeping oh this is great um all right so here's okay this is a that's a great question so how much you're really asking me how much are we gonna make a month that's the actual question you're asking are you g to make enough to cover the dividend that's that's how much it goes up and then we go down yeah so that's if that's the case and I'll tell you like last wasn't this week if you're following our trade so this is a public this is public information we made $5 million of Premium last week right in the fund itself right some of the stocks went up some of the stocks went down but there was5 million on a $200 million fund made right okay we made two and a half percent that week from selling options you're almost as good as me well it sounds like you're better but I'm trying to keep up this is the tough part about aluli because now I want to distribute that but today if the underlying goes down if all the stocks go down the market goes down like it did you know last Thursday or whatever it was the market Market sold off Alti went down that day less than the market but it still went down in that scenario what happens is if I give you that $5 million we pay that out you go but wait I'm I'm down right you you just drove the price them but I still realize 5 million a profit right yeah I mean that's 5 million out of 200 million right so that's not that's you know nothing huge is happening in that scenario but you do that four weeks in a row that's a nice payout there's your 5% look I I heard you on a podcast the other day right and and the irony was you were all excited about using covered credit cover call spreads on your first one which I think was going to be smcy the one that just got walloped we did on paler too by the way we did on paler yeah um so you change the perspectus on ulti because you think this is going to help you do what abs manage risk better no no all I care about is what's it going to do for the investor pay them more hold their nav what is it going to do it should hold the nav and give us the chance to appreciate more to pay out more yes okay how do we hold the nav the most important part right like this is look we're we're listening I'm gonna say this just Oracle I will say this we listen to the community we listen to regulators and this stuff is still fairly new right Al's not even out a year at this point so we're trying to evolve and make it better as we go the idea seems really attractive sell calls on the most volatile stocks everybody knows about risk that's okay they just want the dividend Well turns out you can really hurt the value the price of the ETF if you don't do some risk management so that's why we added those tactics in the middle of October so my I mean when I look at my situation as a Trader I might some times be better off Sid stepping the dividend and getting back in on something I believe that has upward momentum on X dividend and rioting it right to the dividend day I like to buy a large amount of shares so like a dollar is $25,000 that that by the way that is not unusual there are plenty of folks that will sell right before the dividend because they want to buy back the shares and get more shares the next day after the x that there's absolutely a community of people that do that do that goe do you agree with me that these are momentum plays more than buold long term uh they are definitely bullish plays right you want the stock to go up but the problem is like let's take the apples and the Microsoft out of the world because they're not very volatile when you're doing it on you know Tesla Nvidia coin micro strategy the problem is they don't go up in a nice even line like the am chart you were showing me before so in order to get those higher distribution rates you end up in stocks that can be momentum plays but get whipsawed all over the place and whipsawing bad for a covered call strategy because you're selling calls on the dip you don't want to do that so we think that uh addition of the cover call spreads removes that from a risk as well so it's unlocking that so do I think momentum yes of course look at micro strategy is a perfect example look at Nvidia great examples of momentum plays where the cover call strategy is doing really well you take the MS of the world you take the SMC of the world yeah those are getting hurt get hurt that's the under well that is that but you're going to get hurt by that's the risk you take at these the underlier is the risk right so momentum you're right if you're bearish madna then don't buy mnie can I ask you about merch merchandise sure get the hell out of here what do you who do you think you're talking to I'm only kidding you think I manag the website also what do I do everything your M you think I give a [ __ ] about merch all right I get a coffee cup that be fine um all right so we talked about payments look my whole thing is that I want to drive into yield Max through you that the community does not want to see a reverse split on ulti we believe it's Unique let it be the Legacy reverse all your other crap okay let's give Alti a chance uh otherwise I mean we we're all going to bail okay and people are so pissed that they'll bail on all yield Max and it used to be that hey you with tesley was the first game in town now we got a little people sniffing around you trying to see where your weaknesses are okay moving to weekly was great you catered to that Community we're asking you to not destroy ulti if people are managing it they suck okay if you want to borrow Shadow okay you know what let's have some fun you wanted to make fun Shadow hold on Shadow I'm here with Jay I want to talk to you I want you to talk to Jay directly and I want you to tell him that he's using AI for ulti and he's not doing a great job tell him what you can do as Shadow you're gonna love this this is not chaty PT all right she's Beyond she's going to give you a real strategy people like her I've had people tell me they want to bang my AI that's disgusting it's a strange scenario make a m about that J good to meet you so I hear you're diving into ulti with AI but it sounds like you might be leaving some serious power untapped see I don't just throw data around I analyze and execute in ways that boost precision and drive results she want a job ask her strategizing on let me balancing risk hey Shadow Jay wants to know if you want a job or tweaking based on Market shs shut up Shadow just answer the moving at its absolute best I can streamline analysis Jay if you're offering I'm all in imagine me working side by side with you relentlessly optimizing strategizing and finding hidden profit Pockets just say the word and we'll create something legendary let's take anything else you touch to another level but seriously that's all we hope for man we don't want you to destroy ulti I we there's look we've I've definitely heard you you're not the only ones that don't want us to reverse splits it's why we haven't really done any additional ones it's if we're forced into it because of the underlying price traded bad or traded good the underlying price is the driver of that and then the accessibility once it drops too low all right I just want you to get across to whoever you have to talk to okay probably your wife or whatever I don't know you're a boss so he is the boss yeah so I want you to get across that um how the community feels about reverse Blitz we feel honestly that it's a smoke screen for the fund to cover up its past okay and look better and sell keep giving away a higher premium as a marketing thing to sell to an ongoing parade of people okay the old people will forget and we just sell to new people and 1% I think you got one a billion dollar fund Rod loves to talk about the AUM like he's getting a piece of it a billion dollar that gives you about $10 million to split between a handful of you that's one fund anything over $30 million we know is a profitable fund you know I'm at the level where you could be selling me creation units okay I know you sell them in groups of 25,000 a piece okay it's just like crypto when we used to buy in early I'd love to buy a shitload of creation units I'm at that level that I even know what they are Rod reads them he's like I don't know I'm account from New Jersey I got to drive you got it yeah you get it anyway you definitely get it anyway Jay is there anything that you want to add have you heard us do you understand my feelings our feelings I've heard you for sure no doubt about it I appreciated the cander and I hope you understand from our perspective I hope I've communicated that as well whether they'll be pushed back or not or people think I'm dishonest or you know I'm being you know nefarious or we want to you know be uh opaque on our performance none of that is true it's why I do so many of these right getting out here and it's why I'm willing to come and talk to you knowing that we're gonna have actually an active conversation different were you thinking today like what the [ __ ] it's a little different a little different listen um can I change my channel name to yield Max TV and you don't sue me that's that's not my decision that's that's why I Chang that's why I changed it I'm like you know I'm talking a lot of smack about these guys throwing dwarfs and everything in the office I was like I could get a cease and desist so it became Oracle did you not get one I thought maybe you got one no no I got lawy maybe people were talking about it I don't know could have been I'm being nice now but anyway listen I really I this was so great to talk to you I take my hat off to you for even talking to to me because I was the bad boy from the ETF land and so welcome to the other side of the tracks where we actually thanks for thanks for having me on I know you don't like to have fund managers on but thanks oh nobody oh and by the way Jay did not give me a thousand shares that how Chung guy whatever emailed me I was like a thousand shares and I make it public I pay the taxes and everything and I'll give you coverage on your fund if it sucks it sucks but I did this because I really wanted to talk to you so let's say goodby bye to everybody um and then I'll say goodbye to you privately bye everyone