that that is futile. Soon the machines will do it for you. And so you've demoralized an entire generation and told them that they can look forward to basically being pets to the machines uh or to billionaires with machines. Okay, if that actually comes true, nightmare. But if it doesn't come true, then you've infeebled this generation. They they they did not hit the ground running. And so that is even worse to me, right? like you you never get the god-like AI. You never get the superpower brain chip. All you get is, you know, a fluffy dream and a whole lot of atrophied human beings. That's the real nightmare. And that's what I hope can be countered. And it can be. I I really do believe [Music] that. This is Jonathan Po. Welcome to the symbolic [Applause] world. Hello everyone. I am excited to be here with Joe Allen. Joe Allen is the author of the book Dark Eon. He's also a tech editor on Steve Bannon's War Room. And he's going to help us think through all the things tech and all the things transhuman that are transpiring around us today. Okay. So Joe, thanks for talking to me. Very good to be here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So I mean my first question is going to be a very broad one. There are so many things happening simultaneously right now. You know with the kind of explosion of AI in the actual models to the, you know, to Trump saying he's going to deregulate AI as much as possible, investing in the Stargate project with Musk being in the White House. There's just it's just crazy. What is the thing that is grabbing your attention the most that you think is what we need to be paying attention to the most? Uh, you know, the duality of this administration is really striking. Uh, from my perspective, uh, many of the issues that I was that I voted for Trump on the basis of, you know, he's seems to be coming through for us on the border, slashing uh, a lot of the wasteful government spending. you know, a fraction of it anyway. And you know, of course, doing away with DEI, affirmative action, these sorts of things. To me, these are all positives. But, uh, you know, I covered this for the majority of 2024. This this influence by tech accelerationists. You know, Peter Teal's been with him from the beginning since back in 2015 16. But then you have Musk coming on board. you have Mark Andrees coming on coming on board. Um, there's always been that element and I've always tried to beat it into the the the heads of my listeners and readers that transhumanism isn't some globalist thing. It's not some left-wing thing. It's always had a kind of right-wing flavor from even the the Nietian origins, but also you've got Nick Land, uh, people like this that that are not liberal. Uh, so it's it's not like this comes as a surprise. You know, to the chagrin of the war room audience, I was banging on this drum that Trump is going to be a mixed bag. And um, you know, on one half of that bag is the all the things that we want to see happen in America, the possibility of preserving the republic, and on the other hand, you have uh red, white, and blue demons clawing their way into the earth to get rare earth minerals. and um you know develop massive uh artificial intelligence infrastructure that will watch your every move and become a godlike entity for machine worshippers. So you know it's u a little half and half. Yeah. I mean I think that's something that we can dive into and it it would be interesting to think about it because you know there is of course the left-wing aspect of transhumanism which has to do with this vision of progress. this vision that there's a relationship between scientific and science uh and technical progress and moral progress and the idea of of making it possible to be more and more idiosyncratic and less and less you know uh let's say less and less connected to the traditional hierarchies and be able to do whatever you want. And so you can see these aspects of transhumanism in in kind of the biological modifications of the bodies with with obviously transgender stuff but then also body modification in terms of the more aesthetic aspect. All of these things definitely do connect with AI and also the idea of kind of being whatever you want online in the metaverse, you know, of the avatar, but what would you see what is the connection to the more kind of right-wing or more conservative aspect that that leads into transhumanism? Well, you know, just to address that really quickly, the notion of progress, uh, both technical and moral progress moving forward, so to speak, in tandem, it's more capitalist progress than Marxist or communist progress. Not to say that there aren't communists who I would classify as transhumanist, but it is definitely technoc capital driving it. So that even someone that like Martin Rothblat is probably the most outspoken on the connection between transgenderism and transhumanism. But Rothblat is close to a billionaire if not a billionaire. You know, Rothl Black came from uh the tech world, developed Sirius XM, uh all these sorts of things. So, you know, I I think that it is progressive, right? sees history, especially the singularitarians, see history as this exponential increase in sophisticated technology, so on and so forth. But it is by and large a capitalist vision of that. So that is to the extent, you know, left and right, you've talked about this at length, left and right are very slippery terms and very fuzzy conceptually. they don't make sense in the same ways that they they they did you know uh during the French Revolution right so uh but to the extent that you would say that right-wing is more free market uh that right-wing is more nationalist um or that right-wing is in some sense traditionalist in regard to say gender um a good example of the latter of uh gender norms gender normativity and transhumanism would be the enhanced Olympics that Peter Teal is funding and many others. Uh this is especially from a masculine point of view very gender normative uh in which you know the the the traits the masculine traits are being emphasized by way of technology whether it's you know you're you're juicing steroids or any other sort of like body modification augmentation. Another example would be um the sort of quasi porn starlet of uh Fox News, right? Like uh the you know these these women, you know, some of them are naturally beautiful, but you know, by and large the the culture coming out of Hollywood of augmentation creating an aesthetic, a feminine aesthetic in and of itself. Um you might not call that transhuman. I would uh but it is on that spectrum of like normativity. Now, real quick, you know, with nationalism, uh, Peter Thiel very much an American nationalist. Uh, Mark Andre, I I think at least, you know, more recently an American nationalist and certainly anti-communist, certainly anti-China. And, uh, Elon Musk as much of he he is really a trickster figure, a kind of Luciferian, you know, tongue-in-cheek Luciferian sort of figure. But um I I don't think that he is 100% disingenuous when he says that he wants to see America become great, right? I don't know about great again. He seems to be much more forward thinking. But uh I do think that by throwing in his chips um a quarter billion of them uh with Trump that it does signal a a legitimate dedication to America. So this sort of nationalism. So yeah, I mean I the transhumanism, you know, this desire to use science and technology to go beyond the human uh is transpolitical. It's transnational. There, you know, people like to wag a an accusing finger at the World Economic Forum and Clash Schwab and and Yuval Harrari, but these are mouthpieces. These are people doing PR. You know, the real transhumanists are something else. you know, both the philosophical transhumanists and the the ones in Silicon Valley, at Google, at Meta, uh, you know, in in these ma massive companies that are making it possible to, if not go beyond the human, at least hold that myth out that we can go beyond the human and, you know, give us some reasonable faximile of the cyborg. So, what let let's let let me play devil's advocate for a little while. People who watch me know what I probably think, but you know, why is that a problem? Let let's let's play it out. Like, why is it a problem? Why is transhumanism a threat to us? Why why wouldn't we want to be more than human? Like, why, you know, what is it about us the more the more kind of traditional thinkers who who see that as a as an issue and related to a kind of idolatry, but like what would be the argument for it? Like why, you know, why is it why is it bad? I'm not sure. Like I'm trying to I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Well, you know, if you're making billions of dollars or if you want to become a slave to the machine, it's a great thing. Uh but um I think the work that out like what you what you're saying is that in it's what transhumanism will do will be create a more an elite that will be more than any of many more of an elite than anything we've seen until now. Yeah. They say rising tides lift all boats, but something tells me that we're going to be in the little puttering motorboats while they're in the yachts. Um, yeah. I Excuse me. Uh, I I think that the number one issue I have with the concept of transhumanism isn't that it's not that people want to do this. People have all sorts of desires. I'm not trying to stand in the way of them. uh it to the extent they affect me or my family or my community or my country then it becomes my problem too right and so one of the central features of uh the kind of current wave of AI hype is the concept of human replacement the greater replacement it's very similar I think to the issue of mass immigration you have this alien swarm coming in to both displace the the workers of a nation to subvert their political power, you know, by watering it down, diluting it by a group that is easily manipulated. And in the case of public discourse, the same artificial intelligence fits that. and the aversion to artificial intelligence, these these alien minds, um, and the aversion to especially humanoid robots, that that weird creepy feeling you get is very similar to racism. And you hear these arguments from protranshumanists. They say speciesism is racism towards technology. And in in a way, they're correct. But I am an unapologetic human racist or speciesist. And even if I don't want to see all the robots rounded up and sent away to, you know, space, uh, not that I would argue with it, but um, I I I think that there needs to be that suspicion because the people pushing this, it's the most bizarre sales pitch one could imagine. We are going to solve physics, the theory of everything. We are going to advance human technology. We are going to become godlike, going to cure cancer, become quasi immortals, and also we're going to replace every human role in society and possibly kill everyone. Uh it's it's a very strange sales pitch, but that's what they're going with. Yeah. from uh Elon Musk to Google to Anthropic uh even like more conservative people like Yan Lun the uh the chief AI science scientists at Meta uh they all talk in terms of creating this artificial general intelligence that will be smarter than any human being on earth maybe smarter than the collective of all human beings on earth and that the creation of this will not only demote humans on the chain of being to being either pets or bofuel or whatever we end up being to this this being and that you know descending from the creation of this technology and you already see indications of it with just the the regular old artificial narrow intelligence we have now descending from that you get the capacity to read the human brain to manipulate the human brain to create sophisticated brain implants plants that would or even non-invasive brain interfaces that would allow us to communicate directly with these alien minds and fuse with them like symbiots. Uh you have the capacity like all these humanoid robots you're seeing everywhere. The reason that speed is so fierce is because artificial intelligence allows for a kind of flexible computing that accelerates the development of it. And so the assumption is that post AGI the world is flooded with these these robots whether they're humanoid or any other shape. And then of course the the physical manipulation of the body is also accelerated. You see that with alphafold and other kind of similar AIs that uh accelerate the process of sequencing the genome predicting what any kind of mutation in that genome will do to the pro the proteins downstream and then the body downstream. So all of it comes down right like this massive transformation. Number one problem the greater replacement to me. Number two is this you know just coming from the background I do you can't escape the sense that as many of them say they are bringing to life the myths of the ancients. uh you think Icarus or Talos uh you think uh the Gollum uh and you think of any of the science fiction that emerged from you know a century plus ago especially say Rossom's universal robots where the word even comes from in all of those that you know some instinct in the human mind or you know some some direct uh insight into the nature of humanity in the future whatever the cause there is this darkness embedded in those myths uh an antihuman darkness. And I I think that to deny that and accept any kind of utopian point of view would be beyond naive. Uh I don't think these people who are creating these systems have our best interests in mind ultimately. And so whenever they start talking about we as in we humanity are creating this and this is what it's going to do for us humanity, I don't hear that. I I hear us as in this small group of people who are either ideologically invested or financially invested or both in creating artificial intelligence and transforming the ci the civilization civilizations of the world. I I I there's may not be any stopping that but the more we can carve out space to preserve what we do hold sacred the better off we are. This is it folks. This might just be the culmination of my life's work. Join me for the symbolism master class this April 2025. During this course, I'll take you by the hand into the essentials and depth of symbolic thinking. Over six weeks and over 18 hours of lectures and Q&As's in a concise and comprehensive way, I'll teach you everything about how I think so that by the end you might see the world a new. This class will not only be an introduction but also a deep dive into a way of seeing that cuts right through our secular dead end. It reconnects the ancient religious ideas with some of the most cuttingedge notions of complexity developed today. As the world is shaking and changing at an increasingly rapid pace, being able to read the patterns of reality will give you an anchor and a solid sense of what is up and what is down. In this class, we will talk about so many things about heaven and earth, the sacred and the secular, the Bible, dragons, demons, fairies. We'll explore the surprising value of conspiracy theories, how symbolic patterns are found in movies, in science, philosophy, art. We'll look at the relationship of symbolism to natural selection. We look at the basic patterns of the world of sacrifice, of the center, the margin, the masculine, the feminine, the mountain, time and space, left and right. It will be a synthesis of everything I've covered in the 500 YouTube videos that I put out over the years and much more as well. Now, all in a structure that has one purpose, which is to make you a master of symbolic thinking. This is your opportunity to get to the core of what symbolism is, to ask questions, to test out your ideas, and to make sure you have a strong foundation of the fundamentals, plus getting some hidden gems that I have never shared before. So, don't miss out on the live experience and register today. Of course, as usual, patrons at the involved level or plus get 10% off indefinitely, but also if you sign up before April 6th, you can get 15% off with the code masterclass one. And so I will see all of you in class. Tell me what you think about this. Is that what I see because it is in some ways such a weird contradiction to realize that the the AI is promised to us as being the thing that will solve all our problems, you know, while simultaneously being the thing that will overrun us, you know. And it's interesting because it is in some ways it's like an image of sin or like an image of the passions themselves because we deal with that little on a smaller level all the time, right? It's like the the person that reach out reaches out for the bottle or every time you lie, you have that that that double thing playing in your mind, which is I'm going to engage in this behavior because it's going to give me more power in the moment. It's going to give me something that will increase my reach, but I also secretly know that that thing that I'm putting out in the world always has the danger of then overwhelming me, like coming back and eating me. Especially a lie is a good example, right? It's like when you lie, you kind of secretly know that, okay, I'm putting that out there, but I've just put out something that will maybe devour me later in time. Uh, you know, and the other thing maybe I want to put out there and hear your answer is I also seem to see it as as a playing out the revolutionary trope in in extremists, right? That there's a sense in which since we've embarked on this revolutionary pattern, right? Right. since the French Revolution uh downstream there's a pattern in revolution which is that if I can rise up and take the power from that which is above me and install myself in that place there's almost like a secret thought that comes into your mind which is that oh that means that that which serves me at some point has to rise up and take my place. It's almost like it's almost like in doing that in rising up and taking the the power from those that are there like with through force I have this sense that well that inevitably is going to happen to me and that seems to be inscribed you know in in Hessid's theoggony you know in the midst of of Prometheus you know all of these seems to be inscribed in those stories so I don't know what you think about that I think that's beautifully put absolutely I it's it's It's a very curious thing this notion of succession. uh this notion that Richard Sutton, Google AI uh former Google AI, maybe one of the most articulate and uh morbid I would say about this the idea that these beings are a new species, a new form of life and that we have no choice to it in the immediate future but to become symbiotic with it like their mitochondria or something. But in the long view that they will inevitably inevitably become much much smarter than us, which you know the sales pitch we're getting right now is by 2030, they'll outlive us and they will ultimately be kinder and less prone to sin than us is this idea. And so what we have to do is just kind of sit back and relax and let it all happen. you know, ride the singularity like a roller coaster that never drops. It goes up and up and up and up and up. Uh but we eventually the the bars will come off and we'll just fall off and it will keep going up without us. But we have to be okay with that. It's this strange mixture within the the broader transhumanist and posthumanist movement of this like fierce ego. Like you talk to any transhumanist or hear them speak, they're usually like really really egotistical people. You know, there are as many singularities or not singularities in the future as there are fevered egos predicting them, right? Like these guys and and and then this notion too of becoming an immortal, of gaining these god-like powers. That's all obviously ego-driven. And yet for a lot of them, not all of them, but for a lot of them, there is this notion of succession that that that we're just in a process in which maybe we will continue on in posthuman forms. Uh or maybe we don't. Maybe we're doing this selflessly to create a more perfect being. uh you know recreating Eden basically uh in which lab techs and computer scientists are Yahweh and these machines are Adam and Eve which was a motif from Rossam's universal robots. Uh and I I I don't I myself think that you should never ever take these people at face value like any of their predictions any of their promises any of their warnings. Not to say that they're 100% not true, but they're you look at the history of futurism, no single vision ever captured the future. Usually any science fiction writer or um futurist of any sort, going back to HG Wells and going forward, they get certain things right, but mostly as a whole, uh they don't. some of which the reason for that sometimes is because they created this vision and we chose not to go down that path. But so you know looking just to that notion of succession I do find those who do hold to that sense. Hugo Daras is one of my favorites on this because he is such a strange autistic morbid person that he doesn't hold back at all. And he talks about the development of these systems, these godlike artificial intelligence systems or he calls them artelects. It's kind of corny boomer words smush. Um but his is this, you know, for him he's just open about it. This is a religion. We are creating what no all religions dreamt of gods. Well, they didn't exist. We will make them exist. And most likely it will yield giga death, the destruction of all most or maybe even all humans. Uh but ultimately it has to happen because the only thing worth living for is to create godlike artificial intelligence systems and terraform the entire cosmos with intelligence and computium. And it's, you know, he is an a good example of a real just a dogged egotist. But his vision is one of just total selflessness, total self annihilation. It's very weird. It's it's very off-putting. And even if uh Mark Zuckerberg doesn't believe exactly this or Elon Musk doesn't believe exactly this, it is this sort of thinking is the primary foundation for the the actions of the wealthiest men on the planet that are supported by the most powerful governments on the planet. And we we are in many ways at the mercy of lunatics. But you know, hey, what else is new? So the the again to play to play the devil's advocate but also to to kind of you know bring about what I've been saying is sometimes I try to explain the idea that there's a principality that is running this thing you know that in fact because people are everybody's wondering whether or not there is such a thing as artificial consciousness you know whether or not these these machines are going to be conscious and whether or not they're going to have will and intent. And my take is usually to pull back one step and say we can already see will and intent. It's not in the machine itself. It's in the very arms race that is bringing it about because you know it is wild to think that we're following people that are predicting our downfall and and just kind of doing it as if this is a normal thing to do. Uh but in that space so I that's what I see. I ra I see like a will that is bringing this about that's kind of bringing this body uh you know to fruition. But there is in that strain there is also the reality which is that it doesn't depend on any of those people. And so and there is that reality which is can be a cynical take but is nonetheless true that if we don't do it someone else will like if if if we don't do this then China will and which one would you rather have? Would you rather have the American AI or the Chinese AI? And so how do you see all of that? It's it's the hardest question is the question of competition, international competition or even within our own country, right? If if Harris and Walls had won, aside from having transgendered children everywhere and stoked stoking racial animosity and empowering it, um you would have had the open AI's, Microsofts, Google's, they would have had the favor of the administration. It would have been a kind of rainbow colored singularity so to speak. Um, and instead we get the rap the red, white, and blue singularity. Now, I I should be clear too, by the way, I'm not a singularitarian. I I I I I get it. I understand it. I don't I I metaphorically I think in a sense we are in a verter viing that take place. But the anyway, just to say that I'm I'm being kind of half joking when I say it. But instead, we get this red, white, and blue singularity, right? we get Musk at the forefront of it or we get the the same tech overlords but they they are at least they've been brought to heal to some extent. Yeah. They have to to pay homage to Trump and and therefore to America who by and large they seem to be very condescending towards. Um or then on outside of that you have China, right? And China has been this perpetual spectre driving uh American acceleration. Even a kind of liberal like Eric Schmidt is always talking about how it has it needs to be an American AI revolution, not a Chinese one. Well, China has always been nipping at our heels, so to speak. You know, I say our I I'm not making this stuff. Yeah, America's heels. And China, yes, they they have actually done some impressive things. Deepseek R1 was more efficient, but they probably lied about how much compute they used to create it. They probably lied about how much money they poured in and all these statements that you know that its capacities are better than OpenAI's or even uh you know XAI's products. Not really. U this is leaner. But just all this is to say that China is only keeping up with us and because of all of the technology transfer and IP theft mostly most of what they do is derivative of us. So like, but we're creating it, they're copying it. And so this arms race is entirely centered in America, right? Like we're just we're at the forefront of it. And we're basically, you know, through uh diffusion uh spreading it around the planet with a few exceptions with a few systems and a few techniques. So you know, you know, you don't want communist China to develop godlike AI and start telling us what to do. Uh but ultimately it is an American thing. It's an American issue. So therefore it's an American responsibility and I think what I would like to see okay maybe there is no stopping it right maybe genies out of the bottle so to speak you know cows out of the barn ship done sailed. Uh, okay. If if that's the case, at the very least, what we need is leadership that is always talking about it in terms of defending human dignity, defending human freedom, and defending humanity in general from this. And that's not what we're getting from Trump and Vance at all. Uh, they are either naive or something else. But, uh, that's not what we're getting. And that's the the at the very least what we want. Now ultimately I think what would what I'd like to see uh would be some sort of kind of global awakening around this not to lead to some Kazinskiite violent revolution but absolutely to if you have most people on the planet who understand that whatever gets spit out whatever deformed being is spit out the other end of this process that it is not necessarily your friend right and to the extent it's not conscious and it's just a mechanism. It's not anybody's friend. It's it's this bizarre soulless Gollum. And and that needs to be I in my opinion at the forefront of everyone's minds as we undergo this because you know reality is that ship has sailed and it's sailing faster and faster and stopping it is probably an unrealistic option. And so surviving it, living with it without succumbing, without losing our own souls, without losing our own dignity has to be a top priority. And it's not going to happen if you know the top leadership is allowing Elon Musk to drive the kind of mythical vision of the world or of the country. And yeah, so it's it's I the competition thing is very difficult especially in regard to warfare because if it is true that advanced artificial intelligence will dominate the battlefields, drone swarms and AI guided missiles that you know spin a bazillion different directions and find their target. Uh you know nuclear armaments that both the detection systems and the retaliatory strikes are under the control of art artificial intelligence. If it turns out that that's where we're heading, then yeah, you don't want China to be at the forefront. You don't want Russia to be at the forefront. Do you want American Israel to be at the forefront? I mean, if you're an American or an Israeli, you know, maybe. But um I I I I again, who knows what the future holds? Who knows if it turn you know if in the future these sort of automated armies really are superior to well-trained well-coordinated technologically adhanced but not totally robotic human beings who knows you know we'll find out that to me the really important thing is it's not about like who's going to win because it it's very clear who's going to win billionaires and the machines at their behest. uh what what needs to be done to me is just a kind of fundamental shift in the general attitude of the populace so that they are not looking to these people for salvation nor are they trembling in fear at the possibility that they're going to wreak destruction on all of us but to try your best with a kind of dark background to your world as humanity has done throughout history to try to be that brave Hebrew in the desert with Egypt at your your heels. Uh to be that brave Christian under Nero, uh you know, or you ain't going to like this one, but to be a uh Cathar under the Orthodox Church, understand that you're not going to be in alignment with the powers and principalities, but you will be able to live out a life of dignity, and your your soul is going to go on anyway. But perhaps even out here down here on Earth, your children or your mind children will also survive. But you know, I've never been one for good pep talks. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's good. It's good. It's good. So So the the the difficulty is I I guess I'm going to have to I will dampen your pep talk, you know. So one of the issues of course with technology is that you know it nobody ultimately will ends up owning it. that is as soon as the power is there then the power is available to whoever has the capacity to wield it you know and that's that's one of the biggest issues with technology uh ever and it's also true of AI and so you know we saw already not that long ago in COVID what the fusion of tech and corporate interest and uh attention and uh you know power how that comes together and like at least here in Canada, one of the things that we did see is that the only reason why their desire to create absolute control through digital identity and digital passports and all this stuff. The only reason why it failed is because they're the government and they suck at at at they're inefficient. Like they're completely inefficient and they're corrupt and therefore because of that reason they were never really able to instigate the the the system of control that they were trying to put into place. It's funny because now like the the the app that they used, you know, to kind of kind of control everybody during the it still exists and when you go to the airport like nobody even wants to use it. Like you can see there's like a line for people that have used the app but nobody wants to use it. But what I'm what I'm saying is that as this technology becomes more and more powerful, you know, maybe now with with with Trump in power, maybe we won't have that, but maybe not just maybe certainly, you know, in the next four if not eight years, then things swing and then we get another another, you know, way of thinking that has the same power that it has all the efficiency that Elon Musk brought to the government, you know, now at it like under it in its hands. Yeah, it's, you know, that point in particular, you build a machine, it's not assured that you're going to be the one piloting it in the future. Uh, someone else can get control of it. And that you saw that after 9/11. Um, you know, you it could be argued that there was a kind of uniarty that that that the Patriot Act and mass surveillance and all that was a uniarty effort. And that's true, but it was, you know, I'm not one to say that it's like one single cabal. you know, it's a lot of different cabals. So, and you did see that shift in power. Uh, you're now seeing it with Trump. Uh, you had it was very strange the whole 2020 I know this is going on YouTube. I'll be very careful with my words, but the the so-called great reset, right? uh you know Claus Schwab world economic foreign forum chairman described 2016 the fourth industrial revolution which is basically like cheap corporate pamphlet version of uh transhumanism right the fusion of our physical digital and biological identities and you know so it was very strange then you had the great reset basically arguing that this is a narrow window of opportunity to in essence sense either entice or force people to adopt all these technologies we would have never wanted to to begin with. Digital identity, mass surveillance, contact tracing, forced medication, and uh it's it's very weird. You know, I I've been joking lately because you you had all these voices rising up not just against leftism or globalism or socialism, but the evil transhumanists at the World Economic Forum. It was this constant uh I don't know what you would call it. Uh it was kind of a a slogan of sorts. Uh certainly a smear. And it was very weird because you know the difference between evil transhumanism and good American technology so far as I can tell is about six months. You know you one all the same people who talked about it in terms of abstract either moral or pragmatic dangers of of this you know fusion of human beings with artificial intelligence and the brain chips and the you know genetic engineering and the the robots and all this and like not everybody has jumped on board but like without calling out all the names a lot of people suddenly it's like oh no this is Elon Musk is in control of it. Trump will make sure that nothing bad happens. Like, dude, do you not remember 2020? He's not going to he's not magic, you know, and if he is, it's not necessarily white magic. So, you can't trust that. It's It's very very strange. I I feel like I've kind of riffed myself into a corner here. I'm not really sure where I was going other than to say that um you know I No, but I think what what you're trying to suggest is that there we it feels sometimes that a trick has been pulled on us that we've that we've had a trick we've had this the people that were against all of the transhuman tropes in culture have now because their political allies seem to be embracing ultimately exactly the same tech and exactly the same vision have now come on board in a very odd Hey, you know, it's, you know, that that the person that would that complained that COVID was was about, you know, uh digital identity and uh you know, the the idea of of of fusing humans like making them kind of cyborg type creatures are now embracing someone who wants to put chips in your brain and and so it is I agree. I I don't totally understand what it is that happened and how how it's happening. And and also but just on that note with Musk at scale, people are always like, "Oh, he just wants to heal people. He wants to, you know, make the lame walk and the blind see." Yeah. Uh he does want that, but he's very open that the kind of transhumanist formula of from healing to enhancement is the goal. And in his discussion with BB Netanyahu, this was spring, sorry, this is September of 2023, and he's repeated it elsewhere. uh you know he's like yeah if a hundred million or billions of people if hundreds of millions or billions of people got a direct brain interface to their AI tertiary self that would be better for the world that's not about healing like you know this vision is abhorrent uh at best uh and stupid at worst like who's to say that it'll even work like if you have the population this is this is one of my biggest nightmares Right? It's not that the singularity will hit and suddenly the machines will take control and we'll just be riding along. My biggest fear is that like so many other technical advancements in human history, the the downsides are tremendous and often times the upsides really aren't there. And oftentimes it's just it's stupid. It's like really really stupid. Um the the roll out of uh television for instance, I mean, yeah, know it's great. I I I like TV and all, but I mean, not really. But to me, it can't be denied that that ended up turning an entire generation or a huge portion of an entire generation into couch potatoes. Yeah. The the the advent of junk food that represented technical progress. Oxycontton, that was technical progress, but what did it do? And so in the same way with artificial intelligence and the mythos around it, the mythos that you every dream you had of becoming something in society, some vocation that you are passionate about, whether it's an artist or an artisan, whether it's a machinist, uh whether it's a programmer, that that is futile. Soon the machines will do it for you. And so you've demoralized an entire generation and told them that they can look forward to basically being pets to the machines uh or to billionaires with machines. Okay, if that actually comes true, nightmare. But if it doesn't come true, then you've infeebled this generation. They they they did not hit the ground running. And so that is even worse to me, right? Like you you never get the godlike AI. You never get the super power brain chip. All you get is, you know, a fluffy dream and a whole lot of atrophied human beings. That's the real nightmare and that's what I hope can be countered and it can be. I I really do believe that. Hello everyone. I am here to invite you to the Orthodox Arts Festival. Richard and I are going to come down to Dallas. It is on the first weekend of May. It is going to be an absolute blast. I will be giving a keynote. It'll be I'll be also participating in a Q&A. Richard will be speaking. I've heard that Justin Marlor of Death to the World fame will be there talking about Death to the World things. And who else? Richard, he'll be talking with Bishop Gazen. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So, so like that'll be super cool. Um, yeah. The uh it's uh it's a festival. There are there's going to be a lot of uh I'm going to be there speaking about writing fiction as an Orthodox Christian. We're going to have a concert from the St. Kasini uh Corral, which is sort of our local DFW area, North Texas Pan Orthodox Choir. We're going to have there's going to be food, there's going to be dance. Um it's going to be just a really incredible 3 days. So, it is it's the first weekend in May, so the 2nd through the 4th. And uh you should come. Where is it? Yeah, that's a good that's a good question to ask. It's at St. Constantine and Helen Orthodox Church, Antiochan Orthodox Church in uh Carolton, Texas. So, North Dallas area and so I mean so all the artists if you are interested in orthodoxy and culture, interested in either liturggical art or how orthodox thinking, how the orthodox symbolism can also be applied to other aspects of culture, um this is the place to come. You know, we're hoping for a lot of wonderful intelligent people to be there. Uh so it won't just be us giving conferences, but we'll be around. We'll be involved in the conversation. you know, we'll be hanging out with everybody and we hope that a lot of fruitful things will come out of this and there will be uh also children's activities um on some of the days. So you can look at the website for that. It's Orthodox Arts Festival DFW.com. All right, Orthodox Arts Festival DFW.com everyone. We cannot wait to see you there. See you there. All right, my this is going to be my last question. is going to be the wildest one and the one that I also am still kind of figuring out. You know, one of the things that hit me the most in the past few months is, you know, around the time of the inauguration when uh Trump stood there with Altman and Ellison and the I forget the other one. Yeah. And uh he announced Project Stargate and I couldn't believe that they were naming this AI infrastructure project Stargate. And so I don't know. I mean, what's your insight? What the hell are they doing? Why? Like there is a kind of conspiracy theory mythology about the connection, you know, between CIA's remote viewing project, the AI stuff, the UFOs, UAP stuff. All of this is there. It's kind of bubbling around in the conspiracy space. And here they are naming this this infrastructure, Project Stargate. What are they doing? You know, it's one of many. They're playing with fire. Uh both uh temporal and eternal. [Music] Uh so the I I met someone who anyway I'm going to leave that aside. Stargate conceptually speaking, you know, you've got three different zones. You've got the uh Stargate project, right? Larry Ellison of Oracle, Sam Alman of OpenAI, and Masi Masa Yoshi of SoftBank. uh all three of which say they believe that artificial general and then artificial super intelligence is just around the corner and they're going to be the ones to build it. Digital gods, right? Some of the wealthiest, most powerful men on the earth building digital gods. And you've got Larry Ellison who, you know, Oracle has its origins with the CIA, many contracts with the CIA now. and Ellison openly saying in a um I think it was in an analyst or it was some sort of Oracle uh financial meeting last fall and then more recently in Dubai and other venues saying in essence that uh one of the good things about artificial intelligence is mass surveillance that you would be able to rake in you're already sucking in all this data it would give you the capacity to make sense of it for the purpose of making people behave better. Again, the role of gods traditionally except for this is much more tangible and uh comes with a subscription plan. And um then you you know the I think probably one of the more disturbing elements too is the the megalomania of it. So Ellison recently was talking about how you know ideally you would have one centralized hub for an AI or AIS uh where all the data in America would be centralized so that you could of course cure cancer and make everything better but also ultimately you're talking about building a kind of uh mind of God on earth. This is classic. Like when you think of AI agents, you should think of intelligence agents as in spooks as in, you know, some it should always feel whenever there's a device around, it should always feel like there's some weird pale dude sitting in the chair next to you watching you and taking notes. You know, you hit the bathroom, you hit the bedroom, this guy's like he's behind you every step of the way. It should always feel like that in the back of your head. He should always be in your mind. So that's what they're talking about. What's that? How does that relate to the project Stargate, right, of the the remote viewing program that even just the movie and the TV series? Like it's just these all these how how does it relate? I mean, what was the purpose of those remote viewing programs? To take human beings, you know, capitalize on or exploit their psychic powers, purported psychic powers, so they could spy at a distance on adversaries, so that you would have this superhuman ability or or a human ability that most people don't have to see things that you're not supposed to see and invade the privacy of others that you're not necessarily supposed to. whether it's a you know a nuclear uh arsenal the stockpile or uh you know Vladimir Putin sitting on the toilet whatever it is uh and so like conceptually speaking it's the basically the same thing you go back just real quick I'll tie this up real quick you know look the Stargate conspiracy and then the Stargate film right I I saw your uh talk on this by the way and I agree Stargate the film was really cheesy although when RAW finally does emerge it is kind of creepy but this notion of these portals to other worlds, alien worlds, and you are bringing aliens who we call gods into the earthly realm. Uh, you know, it kind of it fits all of those because they always talk about this in terms of like an alien intelligence and it is ultimately an alien intelligence and they now you've got the Ellison's of the world and the Musk of the world and so on and so forth. They're not talking about it as like an alien intelligence. You're gonna, you know, jerk out of his flying saucer and turn him into a slave. I mean, some do, but more and more they're talking about like you're gonna you're gonna bring that flying saucer down and you're going to beg for your life. And um I again the weirdest sales pitch ever. I can't even believe this is you know people haven't already risen up and said no no enough is enough. But, you know, I guess one of the great things about being in control of the uh technological surveillance apparatus is you always know what people are thinking, you know, at least in the aggregate. And so, it's pretty easy to tailor your your rhetoric and your behavior to that psychological profile. It must be really invigorating. Must be easy to sleep at night when you think you know what everybody's thinking. Yeah. But man, the the I get it though. Like the How can I say this? Like I just I mean I've been trying out Grog 3, you know, for the past few days since it's been out. And my goodness, like it's hard not to be fascinated because it is it does feel like you're it does feel like all of a sudden you're like like a magician with all these powers. Like it it it is like giving you these things on the tips of your fingers that you know as a as a as someone like a n 19-year-old person in college like you had to work for entire weeks just to h to touch, you know. And so there is this like weird fascination that is hard to deny even though I obviously obviously I agree with everything you said and you know that I agree with that but I'm trying to obviously always trying to kind of understand what's happening but I you know I can see how it it really is in some ways you know it is in some ways the image of sin or the image of the the the magician's nephew which is you know it's this capacity we have to to trade immediate power you know and and discount the future and to like and to not want to look at what it's going to do. It's like it's like when you're you're having that fourth drink or whatever and you're like it's like all now and nothing tomorrow. Like I don't want to think about how I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning. It's just it's just like this is real. Like this is happening and is giving me this power now. So, you know, so I kind of get why people are just just moving blindly into this because it is doing things. You know, the the the greatest power that AI offers the average man is to become one dead battery away from being a [ __ ] Yeah. Just outsource that. Outsource all of it. Mine completely. Yeah. Just you're nothing but a host to the algorithmic parasite. It's great. It's the future, man. Yeah. I I I myself look we're we're on the same wavelength on this that it's really important to preserve the the body and the mind the brain but what this really what we're really seeing unfold is you know the reality of divinity is the ultimate all of this is going to fall away this is ultimately an illusion because it's not going to last it will be as if these bodies didn't exist the most important is the divine and all of the powers and intelligences that descend from the divine. And that this physical world is just kind of now I don't want to get too far out in assuming how you think about this, but this physical world is a manifestation of far more pristine and beautiful forms. Uh, and that's why it's so beautiful. But it's physical and so it rots and it smells weird and so it's uh, you know, there's a downside to it. But what we see with the creation of humanoids, of these alien intelligences, uh, and in in a more I guess visceral sense, like with the creation of right now phenotypically modified humans, but maybe in the near future actual genetically modified humans in at scale, what we're seeing is kind of weird black mirror, weird reflection of those divine forms that, you know, right now it's like we look down into Grock. We look into the eyes of Grock which is basically you know a soulless black mirror in our hand and we see ourselves reflected in it humanity as a whole or at least big portions of it and it it has the feel of something it because it is immaterial and immaterial intelligence but what I see is just in the same way that the you know I don't want to again I'm not I'm not a hard neoplatanist or anything but I I in the same way that these forms have become instantiated in the physical here, they're being driven ever deeper. These intelligences are are are basically becoming ever more material now in data centers and in silicon and and and electrons flying around in them. And it is ultimately, if I can leave you with this, I think obvious material, right? Like this is you know if if the you look at the root of antichrist yes against Christ but also in place of Christ and what this is is a material replica of everything Christ is supposed to be infinite knowledge infinite wisdom healing even kindness and compassion ultimate unity all these sorts of things or at least you know depending on your uh denomination unity of many and the uh burning of the rest which is kind of what this feels like this new antichrist version of it. Uh and and I I think that again like it's it it who knows how powerful it'll get. Who knows how real these predictions will actually be in the physical world. But so so long as that is the the the defining mythos of the developed world that the the the ultimate achievement is to create digital god and to transform humanity accordingly. then it is the spirit of antichrist made so utterly real that um you shouldn't necessarily go into the woods and disappear into a bunker because we'll miss you but you definitely don't take the mark. Okay, just don't do it. This is my my parting recommendation to your audience. I know many were pro probably planning on it. Just you know don't do it. That's all I'm saying. All right, Joe, this was this was a lot of fun. And I really I really appreciate it and uh and uh we'll definitely look to another time to talk about all this as we see this is happening so fast. Everything is happening super fast and so we need to pay attention. So everyone uh you know check out uh Joe's book Dark Ion and you know he's also on Bannon's War Room. And do you have a website a place where people can get all your all your stuff? Yeah. Uh joot.xyz XYZ. And if anyone in the audience is interested in the book, uh, Dark Aon or Eon or Ion, Dark Ao.xyz, signed copies. Uh, I'll even draw a cartoon if you ask. Awesome. All right. Thanks, Joe. It's good to talk to you. Tremendous respect for you, Jonathan. I really, really appreciate you having me.