Yeah, man. I'm just I'm just in the car, man. I'm just in the car. Am I planning to sneak into another church? Yeah, probably, man. Probably. I'm adding weight. Brother, you don't you don't got to tell me, bro. I'm I'm self-aware, brother. Trust me. I look at myself every day. You don't got to tell me. [Music] We'll just do the hat this way. Don't worry, bro. I'm going to get I'm going to get I'm going to get back in shape, man. Now that I'm back from travel, it's time to lock in, man. It's time to lock in for real. How do I um [Music] Yeah, we're having a we're having a conversation with Darren. Darren Dorsy, man. Having a friendly uh discussion. How do I uh do it, though? Let me see. Yo, can you guys go tell him to turn turn on his invitation for co-host? go to his live and say, "Turn on your invitation for co-host." Darren Darren Darren Dorsy. Yeah, we're talking now. [Music] There we go. Hey, Mr. Yo yo yo. What's up, big man? What's going on? Hey, bless man. Bless. Hey, appreciate you taking the time, my brother. Of course, bro. Of course. My bad. It was 1 hour earlier or something like that. No, I think that was my fault cuz I said 11:00 Hawaiian time, which is I thought it was 1, but maybe not. Maybe it's uh I think we're an hour maybe earlier than California time or 2 hours, 3 hours. I don't know, man. I just you told me it was 400 p.m. Eastern time. So, yeah, I think that was I think that was a mistake on me, my brother. No worries. No worries. No worries. But yeah, I'm excited, man. I'm excited to be able to get in the box. You know what I'm saying? You be over there doing your thing. For sure, man. I like that edit that you made, man. Hey, come on, man. That's all cap, by the way. That's Cap Cut. How long How long did it take to make that, man? Like 5 minutes, bro. Like I said, that's cap cut. I just threw some visuals threw some visuals in there and it was a wrap. Oh, okay. That's what's up. Yeah, it was good, bro. You got some skills, man. I appreciate you, bro. You know, and uh just telling my chat, man, you know, telling my chat, I appreciate you for uh just hopping in the box with me. I know you got a you got a lot going on, but um For sure, bro. For sure. Just for taking the time out, man. I really appreciate it. You know what I'm saying? Likewise. Likewise. You got to hit in the background. Is that what we're talking about? I do. Well, you know, I didn't have a time to make a I didn't have enough time to make a background. I was going to make one for me and you, but I was rushed. I had to rush and get up on here cuz the time zones were we mixed up the time. No worries. Yeah, go ahead. You could get started, man. You uh you you brought up the topic, so you can get started with it if you want. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And same thing, if you have any questions for me, I mean, like I was telling the chat, there's probably nothing you haven't heard yet. Um I mean, you've been doing this for a long time. I don't think there's any I don't think there's any argument you really haven't heard yet. Um but I did have some questions, you know, for you as far as, you know, uh the Quran. Um, I know you had talked about I think I seen one of your clips on talking about uh Jesus and you know if he was a son like was he a literal son or was he a figurative son? Um did Allah abrogate that from uh being a thing or was it you know is it eternal? Is it something that came with Christ when he came? Oh okay. So father father son language correct? Yeah. What does son of god mean? Well, I just believe that it means exactly what it is. That he was begotten of the father full of grace and truth. Yeah. What does that mean? Is that an ontological beginning or what does that look like? Yeah. I mean, look, I don't get into philosophy. Remember, you know, I'm not very philosophical when it comes to philosophy. Yeah. Christian theology, right? I believe that he was eternally beget from the father. The person of the son, not the essence. The essence they shared, but the person of Christ was begotten from the father. Meaning he was always with and in the father. Does that make sense? I understand. I understand. But is that is that what you mean by son of God? That's what I I mean I believe so. And correct me if I'm wrong. No. Son is a relation to the father, right? It's it's a eternal relationship that they've always shared from the beginning. Yeah. That's that's never been the case in in Islam. No. Oh. Not in Okay. In Islam. So you you guys don't believe that anything can be get from Allah. No. If you're talking about father and son uh with analogical predication, right? Or just in simpler terms, father uh as in a a creator just like Deuteronomy uh what was it? 32 510. He says, "Am I not your father who created you?" And he says, "You disobey me, you are no longer my children." Right? So I I believe that that was the case with previous nations. Yeah. Okay. So you believe that it was more of a in a relational sense, not in an ontological sense, more that he was fathering them through uh well well both both are relational whether it's ontological or not. I'm just saying the fatherhood here is not an essential ontological one. Right. So let me ask you because you guys believe that Allah need he's not begotten nor can he beget. Correct. Yeah. So when it when it comes to the uh the nature of the Quran cuz we believe that the the Quran is eternal, correct? And uncreated. No, we don't believe the Quran is eternal. You believe it is uncreated? Yeah. Okay. So, how can Okay. So, how can Okay. So, how can Okay. So how can God's essence is what we call a creature? I see. But not everything that has a temporal beginning inside of God that is intrinsic to him. Cuz you said you don't want to talk about philosophy, but it's kind of like it has Well, cuz Yeah. If we're going to talk about the Quran, then I mean Yeah, sure. Sure. I'm just I'm just saying just just make if you don't understand something, just let me know so I could Okay. So I Yeah. So everything outside of God's essence is a creature. That's what we would define created. Everything that is originated outside of God's essence. Okay. Okay. Yes. Everything that is everything that has a temporal beginning inside of God's essence we would say is not a creature but it has a temporal beginning. For example, right? Do you think that God affirms the following proposition? Darren is now alive. Yes. Okay. Good. So now today he affirms and believes Darren is now alive. Right. Right. Let's say may God give you a long life. But let's say you pass away tomorrow. Right. Okay. Will God start to affirm Darren is now dead? M. Yeah. Okay. Is that created? No. But it has a beginning, right? But it has a beginning. Yeah. There you go. So everything inside of God's essence, if it has a temporal beginning, it doesn't necessitate that it's that it's created because anything created is just outside of the essence of God. Okay. So just so I'm clear cuz I'm I want to track you and you know me, I'm I'm a layman, man. I'm I'm trying to understand. So you're saying everything that's temporarily created within the essence There's nothing there's noting created in God's essence. Right? Okay. Everything with a temporal beginning which means temporal beginning which means a beginning in time. Okay. So the Quran Allah spoke it in time but the Quran is not something outside of God's essence. It's intrinsic to him. Okay. So that would kind of make sense. So you know when it let me see it says the Quran is the speech of Allah not created in any form neither its letters nor its sounds nor its meanings are created otherwise. Okay I'm trying to track track you here. So when it says there was something that somebody had wrote that I wanted to get your opinion on. So al alas I don't I don't know if I'm saying it right. Nasafaya the commentary by Al Naf Tazani page 70 it says the speech of Allah is eternal attribute from his essence uncreated the Quran is his speech not created so that would you agree yeah so there is there is um there's an equivocation here okay so when we say the speech of God we could refer to two things right so for example I say Darren has speech, right? I could either mean Darren has the ability to talk. Yeah. Or one of the instances of Darren speaking. Okay. Those those are two different things. Your ability to speak is different from the instances that you've spoken. Okay. These are two different things. The ability to speak is eternal because God is always he always he's always has the ability to speak otherwise he's an idol. But each instance of God's speech has a temporal beginning. It's not eternal. Doesn't make sense. The Quran can't be eternal. That means God has been speaking the Quran eternally like an non-stop radio. Right. Right. Right. Correct. So So that's that's the important distinction to make. Okay. So that's why you say it's uncreated but yet not eternal, right? It's uncreated. It has a temporal beginning yet it's not eternal. And it comes from Allah. If that means it's in the essence of God and it's not separate, then yes. Okay. So I want to ask you about uh Sunnin Maja 3781. Let me go I want to pull that up because it's it's a very interesting uh subject. We've been talking about it actually pretty often um lately and I want to get your opinion on it. Would you be able would you be able to read that or no? I'm in the car so you can read it for me, man. I got you. I got you. Sounds good. Like I said again, thanks for taking the time, bro. I know you Yeah, no worries. No worries. So, Sunnah Maj 3781. I'm going to read that and maybe you can give us an explanation because it's a pretty big topic of Is it Is it Is it the Quran speaking as a pale man? Yeah. So I'm going to read it real quick and then maybe you can give us uh your understanding of that. So it says the parade will come on the day of resurrection like a pale man and we'll say I am the one that kept you awake at night and made you thirsty during the day. So I guess my understanding of this and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. So my understanding is you know when I kind of add two and two together when it says that the Quran was uncreated um that it came from the essence of Allah remember uh and I don't understand how something can come from Allah which is the uncreated speech of Allah because remember we believe also in the Christian paradigm that God's word became something it became flesh and dwelt among us. Unfortunately this doesn't become flesh but it does come one like a pale man who speaks with valition. So if the Quran is the unccreated speech of Allah that appears to someone on the day of resurrection like a pale man and speaks it says I am just like Jesus said before Abraham was I am the Quran here says I am the one okay meaning giving it personal agency. Yeah. No. So we don't believe that God's attributes have any personal agency. And as im Ahmed in his book was he comments on this hadith and he says that we we orthodox Muslims we don't think that that's referring to the actual speech of God being personified and given agency. This is referring to each individual uh act of reciting the Quran being personified as a man. So that was his commentary on this particular hadith. That would be our cuz you're doing an internal critique of my course. Of course. Yeah. So if you're doing an internal critique of my position, our position is that the Quran doesn't Guys, am I lagging? No. No. I can hear you, my brother. I can hear you. One sec. Some people in my chat are saying I'm laggy. Guys, I'm not lagging, right? No, not over here. You're not. Okay. Okay, good. So, anyways, our position is that it's not the actual instance of speech being personified and speaking having rational agency and mental act. Rather, it's each individual act of recitation being personified and bearing witness to the person. So I recite the Quran. That deed of me reciting the Quran becomes personified and bears witness on my behalf. Now would this be would this be Islam's position as a whole? One sec. Yo, are you guys trolling me or am I lagging? One second. People are saying you're lagging. You're lagging. You're lagging. What's going on, man? Hey, appreciate y'all for keeping it respectful in the chat, man. Thank y'all. I appreciate you guys. Cuz every people are saying no lag. Others are saying black lag. What is going on right now? Yeah, you're not lagging out at all on my my end, my brother. Okay, whatever. We'll just Yeah, we'll the orthodox position. Yeah, this would be the position of um Islam, bro. That's what it is. Sunni Islam. Awesome. I did have some question. We we'll get to that another day. We have some questions about about
Darron: Yeah, absolutely. Sounds good. Okay. So, when it comes when it comes to um because you spoke about you believe Jesus is the word of God made flesh, right? Correct. Yeah. So to me when you're predicating divinity because when you say Jesus is God is that a is that a statement of identity or a statement of predication? It's that identity. I believe that Jesus is God. Okay. So I just want to make sure you understand the nuance cuz Yeah. Explain explain it better. Yeah. Cuz I think like the people you hang out with, they they disagree with you there. So maybe you didn't understand me properly. Well, no. Like I said, hey, I'm I'm a laid man. Explain. Yeah, that's why I want to make sure the nuance is explained, please. So, you're saying when you say there is this one being called God, right? Okay. And Jesus is identical to that. Meaning there is no distinction between the one being who's God and between Jesus. Jesus just is the one being who's God. There's no distinction. What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Meaning strict identity. For example, you have Superman. Right. We say Clark Kent is Superman. Right. That's a statement of identity. Right. Right. If I say Clark Kent is uh a human, that's a statement of predication. I see. I see. I'm talking about what Clark Kent is. He's human. The identity is Clark Kent is Superman. That means Superman and Clark Kent. There is no difference. Superman just is Clark Kent. There is no distinction. So which one do you believe Jesus to be when when we say Jesus is God? Well, well, that's what I mean. Like I I don't know how to explain it any other way if I can't follow your realm of logic in that sense because like I said, I'm not I'm not a scholar, a theologian. I'm just a person who picked up the Bible, fell in love with it, and I've learned by reading the scripture that Jesus Christ is God, but he's distinct in person. Meaning, there's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, but they're distinct in person. Okay. So, I I guess So, I guess you do understand the nuance then. If you say Jesus is God, right? Are you talking about who he is or what he is? When we say God, we're talking about what he is. When I say the son, we're talking about who he is. There you go. So then you're saying Jesus is God. That's a statement of predication. Okay, good. No problem. According to 1 Timothy 3:16, it says God was manifested in the flesh, justified by the spirit seen among the angels. Well, actually, first Timothy doesn't say that cuz there's a variant reading there. So, what does it say? It says he was manifested in the flesh, not God was manifested in the flesh. But we could we could get to that variant another time. Sounds good. So, so when you say Jesus is God, right? And the father is God, right? Yet they are distinct, right? Under what counting method would that be one God and not two gods? Under what one you say what one meth what method? Like how do you count one God here instead of counting? Yeah. They share they share the nature. The nature is the essence they share. Meaning Jesus didn't make himself separate from the father but he made himself distinct from the father. He said I and my father are one. mean they're unified but they are distinct in person because every time Jesus opened his mouth he says for I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him he sent me so we see the plurality in the person of God even from the old testament one of the very first things that god said in Genesis 1:26 he said let us make man in our image according to our likeness let them have dominion over the earth so we believe right from the beginning god showed himself to be moral okay but that that's fine I can grant Aren't you understanding of that? But I'm saying you said they're one God and your justific your justification is because there's one essence, right? Yes. I'm saying that that wouldn't make them one God because you and I share the same essence. We're two distinct persons yet we're two humans, not one human. Well, no. We have the same essence, but we don't share the essence. Meaning, we're both human. We're both human. How would we not share the I'm not connected to you in any way? Does that make sense? Jesus was always connected to the father. So, so wait. So, hold on a second. So, when you say connected, what does that mean? So, for example, me and you, we have the same nature, correct? Right. We share we share a common set of properties, right? But we're not connected. Okay. So, what what what was what would con what would the connecting pick out? So me and you have the same like for example me and you share the same nature as human beings but me and you are not connected in No I know but I'm asking what does it mean to be connected what is that it means to be unified to be like Jesus said he was with the father I am unified like unified in will unified in essence meaning they share the same divine nature you know you know what I'm saying I I don't me and you you know what I'm saying you don't agree with what I'm saying Well, actually, actually, Darren, I'm sorry to break it to you, but you're not actually saying anything. Me and you share the same exact human nature, right? Right. So, how would that what's what's the difference between me and you having the same nature and the father and the son have the same nature? Well, no. Jesus claimed to be divinely connected to the father. He said, "I am in the father. The father is in me." Meaning, they were they were they were one. Me and you are not me and you are not one. Me and you are actually two different. That's that's you know, Darren, that's beautiful. Okay. The disciples are all human, right? They have the same human nature. Yes. And they are also in each other. They are one, right? With the by the power of the spirit because let me let me answer that. The Bible says through the Holy Spirit, we shall be partakers of what? His divine nature. Yeah, you're referring. When we receive the spirit of God, when we come born again, we receive the spirit of God which connects us by who? To who? The father. Yeah. Says, "You will be in me. I'll be in you and the father." So now, yeah. So now you're referring to second Peter about theis. I'm not referring to that. In John 17, Jesus says, "I pray that they may be one." Correct. Father. Yes. Just as I and you are one. Correct. So the disciples are one in the same way the father and the son are one through the divine nature which is the spirit of God within. Okay. Let let me let me let me supernatural connection. All right. Now let me land. Okay. You said the father and the son are one God. Correct. Because they share the same the same divine nature, right? And they have a unity. All right. The disciples share the same human nature and they have a a unity. Correct. Yes. Are they one human or many humans? No, they're many Well, they're many persons, of course. Are they human? Are they many humans? Well, well, you're kind of pro, too. Yes. Because we are one in Christ. But are they are they many human? The Bible says those who are in Christ, there's neither what? Jew, no Greek, slave, no free, male, no female, for we are all one in Christ. So as long as we are in Christ through the power of the spirit, we now become one. I understand. But are they one? Does that make sense? We are one in Christ. I That's fine. But are they one human or many humans? No, they're many. You know what a human is? Yeah. What is a human? A human is an individualization of a rational nature who has animality and rationality. Okay. Can I can I'm going to help you real quick. The word human is a grammatical construction between two words. Actually, it's humis. Well, no. Philosophically, I get you, but let me let me saying, but that has nothing to do with what? That's what No, it does. It does because it has everything to do with the inconception of God's spirit. Watch this. Human is a grammatical construction between two words. Humis, which means dirt. Man, which means spirit. God created man in his own image, then formed man out of humus. That's when man became fully human. Then he breathed what? Ruach. Okay. Became a living soul. A human is literally a spirit in a dirt vessel. Okay, that's that's beautiful. But I'm saying if unification makes you one by counting, right? Then the disciples must be one human. But you said no, they are many humans, right? So then Jesus and the father must be many gods. No, that's not true. So then what's the difference? So then but they're different persons. Okay. I understand you're counting many persons. I'm asking not many gods. Yeah. And I'm right. And I'm asking you why would they not be multiple gods? Well, just the same way me and what both me and you are both what? Man. Man is a species. It means we're mankind. Can I just finish right quick? Go ahead. That's okay. Yeah. So right when I asked you, are the disciples many humans or one human? You said, "No, they're many humans." Right? Although they are united in the same way that the father and son are united. In the same way, the father and the son, why wouldn't they be many gods? Because they share the s they share the same divine essence. And the disciples share the same human essence. Okay. Well, we're one mankind. So what? Well, are they one human or many humans? No. See, that's the thing. A human being is singular. Yeah. Human being is sing. I agree. Yeah. God and God is and God is singular. God is our God is one. We believe our God is one. For the Lord our God is one. Perfect. But that one God created everything in the beginning. He said, "Let us make man in our image and then God created." Yeah, you're right. Absolutely. So, God is plural yet singular according to the scriptures. Right. We're on the same page then. So there's one divine kind, many gods, one humankind, many humans, right? One, yeah, many gods. No, one God. Oh, maybe I misunderstood you. One God, distinct in three person. We are many humans who share God's divine nature through his spirit. As it's simple. I don't know. I don't know what you want from my I don't know if you heard yourself, but you said there's many gods. No, there's one God, three person. There's many humans who all partake in that one divine nature called the spirit. Right? So why wouldn't that be many gods? Because it's just not under who? Well, I know you're saying there's not. But why? Why would it? The same way we count. No, it's not because I'm saying it's not. The Bible teaches there's only one God. I understand the Bible teaches.
Okay. Let me ask you a question. Do you believe Jesus was created? Yeah, I believe all men are created. Yeah. Do you believe that the the the divine nature of Christ was created? I don't believe Christ has a divine nature. You don't? Do you believe that Jesus pre-existed with the father before creation? Of course not. I'm a Muslim. So when Jesus said in John 6:38, "For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me." You don't believe that he was with us or he was with God before creation. So are you asking me what I believe or what the gospel of John according to the scripture? This is an internal critique. Do you believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus pre-existed creation? Yeah. So, I believe there are certain books in the New Testament like like the Gospel of John, like Hebrews, Colossians, Revelations that teach Jesus pre-existed. That's right. Awesome. So, well then, okay. Well, there we go. So, you believe according to the scriptures that Jesus pre-existed creation. He claimed to have pre-existed creation. The Bible claims that he actually was the one participating in the creating. Right. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I know. That's what John says. Hebrews, Colossians, and Revelations. I could I could agree that's what they teach. I'm Amen. Praise God. Praise God. Every every everybody knows that. Nobody disagrees with that. All right. Right. Right. Yeah. No, nobody disagree. Like, you would agree the the Quran teaches Jesus is created, right? I do. That's what it teaches. Well, it says that it's a word from Allah and a spirit from him. Oh, okay. Good. So then, oh, praise God. No, just because you just because you're recognizing what the Quran is teaching, it doesn't mean you agree with it. I re I recognize John John's gospel has a divine pre-existent Christ. I just don't agree with John's gospel. But you know what's interesting? You know what's interesting about that, right? Although John's Gospel and Colossians and Hebrews and Revelations and perhaps some other New Testament texts show that Jesus pre-existed as some kind of divine figure, why don't they ever show that Jesus is God in the same way that the father is God and consubstantial with the father? Well, he came to reverse the curse. Yeah, that has nothing to do with what I asked. No, it does. Trust me, it does. You might not understand. Okay, you could you could explain. Go ahead. Okay, so let me let me let me just do this. Let me do this. So, so first thing and the reason why most Muslims have an issue with Jesus being God is because they don't understand the reason for his coming. Jesus came to reverse the curse. The reason why he didn't emphatically say, but he left breadcrumbs all throughout his ministry up to the point of his ascension was because it was prophesied that he would not raise his voice in the streets. Remember, the devil said five times, "I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. The reason why Jesus came humbly in the earth is because he was reversing a curse that the devil initiated. The devil introduced pride in the world. Jesus came to humble himself and show himself to be a humble servant before his God. That's why the Bible says he was manifested in the flesh. So when Jesus was manifested in the flesh, the father automatically became his God and he submitted his will entirely to the father's will. Does that make sense? That's why we read in Philippians 2, it said, "Let this man be in you that which was also in Christ, who being in the form of God, didn't consider it robbery to be equal with God, but he made himself of no reputation. He took on the form of a bondervant. He came in the likeness of men and he humbled himself and became obedient even to the point of death in death of the cross. Therefore, God what? Highly exalted him and given him the name which is above every name and the only name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Jesus came to reverse the curse. The way up was down and the way down was up. The Bible says those who exalt themselves in pride God will humble. So Jesus came in lowly riding on a donkey teaching us humanity the way. Okay. So how does that answer my question that the New Testament teaches Jesus is consubstantial with the father? I don't know what constantial is. Oh, okay. So, you know how in Na Jesus is said to be in response to the Aryan controversy. Don't know any of that. You don't know. You don't know what happened. No, I don't the terminologies. Like I said, I'm not I'm not hu I'm just It's okay. It's okay. I can explain. No problem. Just so around the 4th century, there was a guy called Aras. Okay. He was a bishop in Antioch, I believe. Okay. Aras believed in John. He believed in the gospels. He believed in the New Testament. But he believe he believed in Paul's letters. He believed Jesus died for his sins. Everything. But he believed Jesus. He even believed Jesus was a pre-existent semi- divine figure that he was a god. Right? But he says that he was God not in the same way the father is God. He's kind of a lesser god and he's created. Right? So then they got together in Na about 300 and some bishops and they argued back and forth and they signed a document under the uh uh under Constantine cuz he wanted to unite uh the Roman Empire and they basically came to conclusion which we know is the credle confessional statement of all mainstream Christianity. We believe in one God uh the Father, the maker of all things, all seen visible and invisible in heaven and on and on earth. And we believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, begotten from the father, uh begotten not made, begone before the ages, all that stuff. Okay? Right? So what makes Aran or or Aras's view um uh not biblical and the Nyian father's view biblical? Um well I would say just based on what we well again like I said I got to do some more research as far as like the whole process of that. Um but what I read in scripture you know cuz you would say that he would be God in a lesser sense correct is that what he would say? Yeah, he'd be a he wasn't he wasn't co-equal or co-eternal with the father, but that he was he was created in a sense as he was he's not he's not co-equal. He's not and he's created. Yeah. Okay. Well, that would like I said that would disagree with like Philippians, you know, where it says he was equal but made himself doesn't say he was equal. He doesn't sure that he didn't find equality with God something to be grasped. So basically actually that says he's not equal. I don't know if you've read the verse. So that's called the So that yeah that that portion is called the Carmen Christie. Okay. Philippians chapter 2. It says although he was in the form of God the Greek word there is uh uh what's it called man? Uh morph morphos sorry morphu. Although he was in the form of God on the outward appearance of God, he did not take equality with God, something to be grasped. Amen. So this is this is contrasting Adam who was in the image of God and he did take equality with God something to be grasped. And because Jesus is the new Adam because through one man the world came into sin. Correct? And through one man we came out of sin. Right. Right. Paul always makes that contrast between how we fell through Adam and were raised back up through Jesus. So here it's the same thing. Adam who was in the image of God tried to reach for equality. That's what it says in Genesis 3. Okay. Jesus who's the second Adam. Although he was in the image of God in the form of God, he did not even try to seek equality with God. Right. But what did he do instead? He humbled himself. There you go. See, now we see the context there. It wasn't just that. Listen, hold on. Hold on. Listen, how does that help? You're right. No, I I agree. You're right. Adam did want to grasp equality with God. Remember, by the devil. Jesus was equal, but didn't consider it what? Equality with God. Something to be grasp. The key is in the next verse. But he humbled himself and did what? He became obedient of death. Yeah. out of the cross. Therefore, God has highly exalted him. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Don't ask. Wait, wait, just wait one second before that. Are you saying Are you saying Adam was equal with God? No, but it's contrasting Adam and Christ here. Yeah, but it doesn't say it doesn't say that equal with God. Just what it's saying. Adam, he reached for equality. Jesus didn't reach for equality. He humbled himself. Adam didn't humble himself. He was selfish. He that verse where it says Adam. No, you're not getting I'm not saying it says Adam. I'm saying I'm saying this is contrasting Adam. It's very clear. I didn't say it says Adam. But I think you're contrasting the wrong person. What do you mean? It's not cuz the contrast here is Lucifer. So Lucifer in Isaiah in Isaiah 14:12 it says, "How you are fallen from heaven, oh Lucifer, son of the morning. How you are cut down to the ground, you who weaken the nations. For you said in your heart, "I will ascend into heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will ex I will also sit at the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north. I will ascend to the heights of the clouds. I will be like the most high." Five times he said, "I will I will I will I got I got you." Jesus, let me Well, let me let me finish this. Jesus reversed it seven times. He said, "Not my will." That's the number of perfection. So, you're comparing Jesus to Adam when reality used to be comparing what Jesus said to what the devil said. rose in pride. Jesus said, he says, "I will go up and be like the most high." Jesus says, "I have come down from heaven." All right, let let me respond. He sent me. Yeah, let me respond now. So, it's odd that you say it's contrasting Lucifer here because Paul never in in Paul's writing, he seems to be contrasting Adam and Christ all the time. Well, I agree. Yeah. Right. And that's why it says although he was in the form of God, okay, was Lucifer was not in the image of God, in the form of God, right? No, but he said, "I want to be God. I want we'll get there, right? Lucifer wasn't in the form of God." Can we agree? Yes. Okay. Adam was in the image of God, in the form of God. Correct. Good. So now we have Adam who's and and and the second Adam, the first Adam, he was in the image of God and he tried to reach for equality with God. Genesis 3. The second Adam, he was in the image of God and he did not try to reach for equality. Correct? The first Adam was he didn't humble himself. The second Adam, he humbled himself was obedient so much that even unto death he was obedient. Adam was not obedient. He disobeyed. Okay. So the contrast here with what scholars would say is Adam. But even if you want to say it's Lucifer, it still stays the point is still clear. Lucifer is not equal with God. He tries to reach for equality. Jesus is not equal with God. He doesn't even try to reach for that equality. It's not his. You can't Do you agree that you can't steal equality with God if you have it? Right. You know that word there means to rob equality. Jesus didn't even try to rob equality with God. Well, no. What's Okay, let's do this. Go ahead. Go ahead and finish. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to do something real quick, but go ahead. I'm going to let you finish. So, check the Greek. Jesus can't be equal with God if he said that he didn't even try to rob it. equality with God. You can't rob something that's not yours. So no, this is not saying that Jesus is equal with God. And by the way, if you finish the Karman Christy, okay, it says that he was humble even unto death. Correct. That God exalted him. Correct. And gave him a name above all names. Correct. Can we All right. Is God given a name above all names? Well, let's Well, let's read it. No, no, just just answer me. Is God given a name above all names? Jesus was given a name above all names. asking that can God be given a name above all? God's name is already above all names. All right. So then above all names Jesus can't be God cuz he's given a name above. Well, if you let me ask you a question. If does Jesus have authority over those in heaven? It's given to him. All right. So can anybody but God have authority over anything in heaven? In the New Testament? Yes. Okay. So we agree that that God No, we don't agree. Wait. So you believe that a man could have authority over everything in heaven in the New Testament? Yes. Well, there we go. What do we What are we arguing for? Yeah. I'm saying in the New Testament, somebody who's not God can have authority over heaven. Oh, let me fix this. Y Hold on. It's asking me for my time. Uh, all right. Well, let's do this. Let's read the verse. Can I Can I at least read the verse for those in the chat? Sure. Sure, man. Go for it. All right. So, let's dissect this verse real quick. Uh, verse 5. Philippians 2:5. If you guys are following along, it says, "Let this mind be in you, that which was also in Christ, who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God or like he says considering equality with God something translation by the way." Well, it's New King James. I've been reading New Yeah, that's about it doesn't say consider robbery to be equal with God. Doesn't say that in the Greek, but you can continue. Okay. It says, "But made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond servant." Let me ask you a question. What form was he before he became a bond servant? It says the outward appearance of a servant. Okay. So he took on the outward appearance of a servant. What was Yeah. Because because serving is not an essential form. Do you think that somebody is born essentially a servant? If well if he's born in a manger, you know, he he just answer the question. Yeah. Being a servant, is that an accidental thing or is that an essential thing? It's essential. He said, "I have not come to be served, but to serve." You're not You're not You're not You're not understanding my question. What? I just answer the question. No. No. You're not understand. You think that's I'm using that you don't get. Yeah. That's why being a servant. Okay. Does someone choose to become a servant, right? Does someone have the free will to be a servant? Yes. Okay. That's how Jesus took on the form of a servant because although he was by nature man who had free will, he chose to be perfect and obedient. That is that is what it means to take on the outward appearance of a servant because being a servant is not an essential property of a thing. Okay, let me let's let's get to the next verse and it says and being found in appearance as a man. What does that mean? Yeah, he was a man. No, it says being found in appearance as Yeah, the word. That's interesting. The word in the Greek that's used there. I think it it uses schema. Okay, let's look. Let me look it up. Let me pull it up next. Yeah, use it. Yeah, look it up. Okay, so you said in the Greek, right? Yeah, look in the Greek. I think the word is schema there if I'm not mistaken. Let's do this. the PS2. That way, that way we could be on the same page. You know what I'm saying? Yep. What source do you usually use when you go when you're looking up uh Greek terms? One sec. I just connected you to the car. Can you hear me? I got you. I can I can hear you. Yeah, I use uh just Bible Hub. Bible Hub. Got you. Or Red Letter Bible, whatever. Sounds good. All right. Hold on, y'all. Let's uh let's get to it because I think these these words are important. So, let's uh uh one second. Somebody in the comments said Orthodox uh Orthodox is Wait, let's let me just read it quick. He said Orthodox is a snake. He knew he didn't want anyone in the panel, so he request co-host. Actually, it was Darren's idea. Yeah. Or was it in Darren's suggestion that we would each be in our panel so it' be fairly moderated and we don't need to People say people gonna say a whole bunch of stuff, dog. You just got to let it ride. People say that, bro. But yeah. No, guys. Guys, let me just say something to my audience. Guys, Darren Darren is Darren is not like Listen, I know sometimes he hangs out with Logic and stuff, but from my experience, Darren has been a very nice guy, you know? He's he's not arrogant. He's humble, right? If he doesn't know something, he'll say it. Yeah. Okay. So, guys, he's this guy. He's a he's he's one of the good ones. Okay. There's other guys that are there's people that are disgusting out there, but Darren is a nice guy. So, let's just make that very clear. So, I got Hey, I do got, you know, hey, I got to vouch for my man, Logic, y'all. I know, hey, I know y'all got beef. You know, that's okay. And I'm And hey, and I'm and I'm with that 100%. I'm with that 100%. Um, but you know, that's my big brother. You know, that's that's my guy. And that's why I say I'm I'm fortunate, like I said, I'm fortunate to even get in the ring because he's he's a person that has four times the intellectual capacity I got. I Hey, like I said, I'm very like I'm I'm still learning. So, big ups to you. Big ups to God Logic. I love to seeing you guys kind of go at it, too. So, it's very very entertaining for us. But I love Let's be respectful in the comments, you guys. This is definitely a respectful conversation. You know, I I love I love when we go back and forth, too. Maybe he should you should tell him to accept my debate request on the Islamic dilemma. Hey, he be cooking on that. Maybe maybe let him know. He be cooking on that. He be cooking on that. Well, he he could cook, but he's not cooking me. So, we could we could we could we could we could try to put that to the test, but he doesn't he doesn't want to do it. So, man. Well, hey, look, I'm not here to that's that's that's between y'all, man. You know, I know a lot of us have contingency things that, you know, we have to agree on both sides. So, big ups big ups to Logic, man. You know, I got to give a shout out to the big bro cuz he's that's my guy for real. But, like, you know, Orthodox, we just trying to bring peace. You know what I'm saying? We just we trying to make everything mutual between Christians and Muslims, at least on my platform. Any Muslims welcome. Um, and we try to keep it all love, bro. At the end of the day, you know, it's all love. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, you you did you pull up the word? Okay. So, let's get to Philippians 2. I'm on Bible Hub now. What version? What shall I go? I'm like I don't know how to navigate this stuff, y'all. Yeah. So, it's uh go Philippians 2. Um and go to the select the verse where it says, but he was um he he took on what the appearance of a man or something. Blameless. Uh yeah. So, that's verse where we at? Philippians 2, right? Let this Okay, here we go. Being a founded appearance and I can click verse eight. Okay. And let's see what it says in the Greek. Okay. Amplified. No. Oh, Greek. Here we go. appears. Okay. So it says and being found in appearance means being fashioned habit formed. appearance uh as which we understand that is a man uh a man one of human race from manor of ops man-faced a human being uh yeah so it just means an appearance so you and I right so you and I you and I would agree that Jesus is a man here he's not just an appear he's not he doesn't just look like one he's actually a man right Right. Okay. But he wasn't he wasn't what it means is he wasn't just a man. Oh, it doesn't just say he wasn't just doesn't say that anywhere. Well, why would it say being found in appearance as a man? What What do you think in appearance means? Do you think that he was just a real man or he just looked like a man? No, it's God who was manifested in the flesh and appearance as a man. Or was he was he a real man or did he look like a man? No, he was a man. But he was also in appearance. Yeah. So, in appearance, man, doesn't mean anything, Gary. It just means he was a real man. Well, let's do this. And to be fair, let me help you. Let me help you understand what it mean what that means. It's found on the Mount of Transfiguration where Jesus took Peter, James, and John up the mountain of transfiguration to show who he was beyond the veil of the flesh. Remember, only people that can see him was demons. They saw him when he came. They said, "We know who you are." He said, "Shut up. Come out. My time has not yet come." So Jesus decided it was time. He said, "I'm going to take you, you, you, Peter, James, and John. Come with me." Took him up the mountain. The Bible says he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun. His clothes was transfigured in all white. Two people showed up with him. Moses, and Elijah, to bear witness. The disciples saw them all speaking to Mo to Moses, Elijah, and Jesus were all speaking while he was transfigured before them. Do you know what happened after? How does that hold on? Let me finish. Let me finish. Hold on now for people in chat. Go ahead. Go ahead. So, it says his face shone like the sun. His clothes was transfigured and all white. Moses and Elijah showed up. Remember the Bible says from the law and the prophets were proclaimed up to John. Since John the kingdom was preached. The disciples wanted to build a tabernacle for every single one of them. They said, "We're going to build a tabernacle for you, Moses and Elijah." The moment they said that because they knew tabernacles were only for who? God. So Moses disappeared. Elijah disappeared. The only one standing before them was Jesus Christ. Glorify shining like the sun. A voice the Bible says a bright cloud overshadowed them and a voice came out of the cloud saying this is my beloved son hear him. So yes when it when it says that he came in the appearance as a man that means he humbled himself and took on the appearance of one who is just like a man that's what that means. Yeah. So first of all the transfiguration event has nothing to do with Jesus being a divine figure or not. um Matthew and Mark what they're trying to do with the transfiguration and that's according to um uh what's his name? Joel Marcus commentary uh of the go of Mark and the Amplified Bible commentary and according to uh what's her name? I forgot. I forgot her name. But anyways, according to both commentaries and Mark and Matthew, what Mark and Matthew are doing is that they're representing Jesus being the fulfillment of the Torah. That's why shows up and a fulfillment of the prophet. That's why Elijah shows up. Okay. So that's why here you have a kind of new Moses figure, right? He's a prophet like Moses. So Mark has that in mind. He wants he wants Jesus to be the prophet like Moses. He's fulfills Moses. All right. Then he has Elijah because he is a type of Elijah. Okay. And he's because Elijah represents the prophets. So that's all that's happening there. This has nothing to do with Jesus being a divine figure. Dude, you just preached the whole message, right? Hey, did y'all hear the brother just preached the whole message? Jesus said, "I have not come to abolish but to what? Fulfill the law." What does this What does this have to do with Jesus being God though? So he was No, but that's not what it's saying. That's not what it's saying. That's you presupposing that. But you made a big point and most Christians don't even know that, by the way. Just so y'all know, most Christians have no idea the revelation of the mount of transfiguration that the law and the prophets were pointing to the person which is Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "You set the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life." Yeah. And testifying and Darren and guess what Darren you preaching that the author of Mark is a Christian who thinks Jesus fulfills Moses and the prophets. That I think I think that story is bogus. I think it's made up by Mark. But because why would you why would you think that? Because there's no historical evidence and there's no independent attestation for the story. Oh yeah, we have Let me just let me just finish. Okay, let me just finish. Mark, right, who's our earliest author in the gospel literature that's can canonized, right? Mark has the story to try to make a theological point. Mark is trying to say Jesus is the new Moses and Jesus is the new Elijah. That is what Marky 18:18, you know. Yeah. I Yeah. Mark thinks Deuteronomy 18 is about Jesus. 100% 100%. Mark Mark was a Pauline Christian who believed Deuteronomy 18 is about Jesus. Who believed everything was about Jesus. That's That doesn't change anything. The point is nothing in the New Testament shows us that Jesus is God in the same way the father is God. And by the way, you said that the Bible, the scriptures don't say Jesus is a creature, but I beg I disagree. He he was a creature. I didn't I didn't say that. No, no. The divine son. Oh, okay. Oh, you mean is essence? The the divine the divine son pre pre-incarnation. Proverbs chapter 8 verse 22 says that it's it's the wisdom of God the word of God being personified speaking it says in the septuagent it says the Lord created me as the first of his works do you believe Jesus is created as the first of the works of God? No. So, you disagree with Proverbs. Proverbs. Proverbs chapter 11. Let's pull it up. Proverbs chapter 3. Proverbs. Okay, let's pull it up. Let's do that. Oh, yall know I got ADHD. You got to say it one more time. Proverbs Proverbs 8:22 in the Greek subtle [Music] Yo, I've never done that uh match thing before. You want to do it? Which one? It's I don't know. It's like match start match. What is that? Oh, that's uh Oh, that's if you want people to like the league match. You know how people get in a box and it says versus and they got to run you up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You want to do that? What? What is it? I mean, it's up to you. It don't matter to me. I mean, you got a bigger audience than I got, but we could try it. It's up to you. You want to try it? I never done it before. Sure. Let's do it. All right, family. Man, y'all better not let him run. Hey, guys. Let's Let's get Let's get the devil. Y'all better not let Hey, y'all they already running it up. Y'all going to let the Christians man, y'all better not let this man run it up on me like that. You probably got like a thousand people on your live, dog. I got I got close to 2,000, my brother. See what I'm saying? Y'all letting this man run it up. Chad, don't do that. Hey, Christians assemble. Hey, they they not they not doing a bad job, man. They're But anyways, Christians unite in the name of Jesus. Did you pull up the verse? I did. Okay, let me see. It says, uh, the Lord possessed me at the beginning of his way before his works of old. Uh, I have been established from everlasting. From the beginning there was e there was ever an earth. When there was no depth, I was brought forth. When there was no fountains abounding with water, before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I was brought forth. Yeah. So, you believe that about Jesus, right? Well, no. Uh, not necessarily. I'd have to go back and really look at the context. I mean, it could be applied because it said this is this is what do you who was be who was begotten before creation? Well, it's talking about wisdom, correct? Yeah, that's Jesus wisdom of God, right? Yeah. Yeah. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's speaking of him as a person. So who's who is who was begotten before creation other than Jesus? What do you mean? Nobody. Wisdom wisdom is saying wisdom is saying here I was begotten before creation. I was with God when he created all things. God used me to create all things. Yeah. Okay. Who is that? So you're saying this has to be the eternal son. If you want the reason I'm saying that's what Christians believe. If you want to reject it, it's fine. Well, yeah. Well, I don't know. No, I just say I'll just say I don't know. I got to go back and look at this verse. Okay. But who I'm not going to answer if I don't Hey, if I don't know it, I'm not going to answer for this verse. I've heard this verse before, but I've never tried to make the correlation. So, I don't know. Yeah, but who Yeah, but who else is begotten before creation? Well, it's talking about wisdom. It's not talking about a person. Yeah. You believe Jesus is the wisdom of God? Yeah, I do. So, Jesus was begotten before creation. Yeah. But it says from the be, listen, it says, "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his way." Was there a beginning of the L of his way? Yeah. Jesus said, John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the word." Yeah. Well, that's the that's the beginning of creation. But we believe he existed pre-creation. Yo, you're you're yo, you're actually they're actually beating me, bro. Hey, Christian. The Christians is Hey, y'all Christians better stop playing with me for real. Hey, we coming through today, man. The Christians is on one. The Christians is on something different. Hey, y'all let them know, man. We on something different today. We not having it. You get Hey, man. You getting baked now, man. You got no back up. Man, you got a big audience. It is what it is. But yeah, but love Hey, Christians, from the bottom of my heart, man. Y'all fighting for real. So that's all love to y'all for real. All right. So, so, so check this out, right? Proverbs 8, all early church fathers, all early Christians believed it to be about Jesus, right? Okay. uh all bas all every Christian has spoken to believes about Jesus. So if this is about Jesus let's say it is right would it mean that Jesus is a would it mean that Jesus is created here because verse 20 22 in the Septuagent says the Lord created me as the first of his works. See, again, like I said, I would I don't agree with that specifically, but if that's what this verse is teaching, I'm going to have to go back and see if this is actually talking about the eternal son. Um, you say that I can't question. Yeah. I'm saying if it is the case it's about the eternal son, would it then be saying that the sun is created? No. Well, I don't believe that cuz if it's talking about the sun, then that can't be what it's saying. Okay. Read or read verse 22 in the Septuagent. All right. So, in the subtuent, let's see. Hold on. Hold on. Feel me. Hey, y'all fighting for real, man. Thank y'all Christians, man. Big love to y'all, man. Y making me look crazy. You know, he got a big audience. He He doing his thing. You feel me? Um, let's see. In the right, let's look at the Greek text. Huh. Hold on. Hold on, y'all. Oh, that's right. cuz it's Proverbs 8. Yeah, we fighting. We fighting, chat. How many people you got on? I'm sorry. It takes me a while to navigate these websites. You know, I'm not I'm not It's okay. How many people you got on you live right now? Uh, we got 1.1 in here. 1.1 in here. Oh, one 1,000. Yeah. 1.1,000. Oh, we're not too far off. We got 1.8. Yeah. Okay. Hey, cool. Okay. Hey, you know we Hey, we we doing what we do. I'm going have to get Look, I I don't know how to navigate this like that, bro. But we'll have to get back on this verse. We can definitely double back on. Okay. But no, but one sec before we leave the verse. It's very important. This verse says in the Greek Septuagent, the the Lord created me. The word for created there is comes from the Greekiso which which is which which okay so if this is about Jesus and if what I'm saying about the word is true would it mean that Jesus is a creature? If if what you're if that's what it's saying and this is about the eternal son, I can see how you can make the implication. I just have to I'd have to look I can't I can't answer that, bro. I can't concede to that because I have to study the verse and I don't want to speak I respect I respect the verse. All right. Well Well, maybe maybe now we could talk about the covenant cuz that's what we were actually supposed to talk about. Yeah. Hey, let's do it. I'm with it. All right. So, yeah, make make your point about, you know, you said this is like a cheat code against all Muslims. You know, you've been watching my videos, huh? You've been watching my videos, huh? Yeah, I've seen a couple. I seen a couple. Let me tell you something. The boy been cooking on that. You feel me? Not really. Not really. All right. Run it. Run it on me, man. Let's do All right. Let's do this. So, the covenant. So, we agree that the covenant align um that God God did everything by covenant. You agree? In the Old Testament, everything was by covenant. God had multiple covenants in the Old Testament. Um I believe that there were six covenants in total. one covenant you know that came in the new new testament which Jesus spoke about at the at the last supper that this is the covenant of my blood which would be poured out but before that we see a covenantal line since Genesis chapter 3 where God made a promise after Adam's sin that there would come a seed that he was protecting right that would come into the world and that would crush the authority of the serpent that's why God protected a lineage all the way to the person that's that's just talking about humanity well no there's a covenantal line that God protected from I'm saying I'm saying the verse in Genesis has nothing to do with Jesus. It's just it's just humanity will be in enmity with the seed of Satan. So the seed of Eve is humanity and they'll be in continuous enmity. Correct. With the seed of Satan in what? Yeah. What's the rest of humanity? Humanity will crush correct Satan's head. The humanity. So you you believe the seed is referring to humanity and not a person. Why would it refer to a person? And that's an acronym because it says, "Okay, let's go to Genesis 3. Hold on. Let's do that. How about we just, you know, we we stick to the scripture." Let's do that. Well, you just just just finish your whole just finish your whole point about Genesis, Ishmamail, whatever, and then I'll respond. Okay. Well, let's pull up Let me at least pull up Genesis 17 then. All right. So, I can have scriptures to reference. All right. So, I mean, you've watched my video, so it doesn't necessarily seem like I got to go through the whole process. So, let's just No, no, I I don't remember. I don't remember the exact point you brought. Just do it. Do it all. Okay. Well, let's do this. So, I'm going to show you according to Genesis that the seed of Ishmael cannot be the promise of the covenant that God made with through Isaac. And and it's funny because even the Quran affirms and surah actually I don't want to give that away yet. I'll give that away later. But that it recognizes the covenantal line that God established through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You do admit that God established a covenantal line through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Correct. No, he established two covenants in Genesis. Let me finish. I haven't answered. No, no, go ahead. No, I was I I didn't go. Yeah. Yeah. No. So, Genesis 17 has two covenants. One with Abraham and his descendants after him. That includes Ishmael and all his descendants. The second covenant is with is with Isaac and Isaac's descendants. Okay. So, where where did that co that second covenant initiate in Genesis 17? You sure? Yeah, you can read it. All right, let's read it. All right, so we're going to read it from verse 15. Chad, y'all know what it is. All right, so we're going to start at verse 15 cuz you me and you can agree that before Genesis 17:15, Ishmamail is already there. He already had a son by a bond woman called Ishmael, correct? Which was the bond. I think I I think I I I have to go back, but yeah, I think so. Yeah, but yeah, go ahead. Just read. Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai, your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name, and I will bless her, and I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations. Kings and people shall be from her." Then God said that uh well, let me see. And it says, "Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed. And Abraham said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is 100 years old, and shall Sarah, who is 90 years old, bear a child?" And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael may live before you." Then or then God said, "Sarai, your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call her name or his you and you shall call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him, and it will be for an everlasting covenant." So, this is a covenant that God clearly says he was establishing through Isaac or with Abraham, but it will go through the lineage of Isaac. That one sec. One second. It says, "I will establish it with who?" Isaac. No, no, no. Read the text. It says, "Oh, with Abraham." He establish. With Abraham and what? Wait, wait. Say what? What does the text say? Read it again. It says, "No, Sarah, your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him." Good. So, that's about Isaac. That'll be reiterated later. Good. Now, keep reading. Correct. Keep reading. All right. And it says this. And it says it will be, "And I will establish my covenant for an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him." So now he's not just speaking. That's about Isaac, right? Correct. Isaac and his descendants. Yes. Correct. Good. Keep reading now. Okay. It says, "I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him." This is God speaking, correct? Mhm. Okay. And then it says, "Ask for Ishmael." Abraham, I've heard. Why? Why did Why did you No. Well, you skipped the context. Where Where we at? What do you mean? Wa wa. I just read it. Then God said, "No, no. I No, no. Go to when he establishes the covenant with Abraham, the circumcision." That was in verse That was chapter 15. No, no, that's in 17. It's reiterated in 17. Wait, wait. It's in It's up. It's in 17. It's reiterated. Okay. Can I keep reading? Like, are we going to get there? No, no, no. But no, you're you're way ahead. You have to go back to when Abraham's covenant is reiterated. Oh, I see. Okay. So, you want me to start at the beginning of 17 then? Yes, please. We'll read the whole context. I started at 15. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, I see what he's saying. Okay. Watch this, guys. It says, "When Abraham was 90 years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, I am Almighty God. Walk before me and be blameless, and I will make my covenant between me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." Then Abraham fell on his face and God talked with him saying as for me him saying as for me him saying as for me your name be called Abram but your name shall be Abraham for I have made you a father of many nations. I will multiply you exceedingly fruitful or I will make you exceedingly fruitful. I will make you na I will make nations of you and kings shall come from you. I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you in their generations for an everlasting covenant. Stop. Stop there one second now. So now the covenant is given. I will establish with you Abraham. Correct. And your descendants after you. Yes. And that covenant is a circumcision covenant. Yes. No. The sign of the covenant was circumcision. Right. It's a circumcision, right? No. No. No. It's not the sign. No. No. It's not. He says, "This is my covenant with you." If you keep reading, this is what it'll say. Okay. This is my covenant with you that everybody in every male in your household is to be circumcised. Yes. Correct. Correct. Okay. Good. Was Ishmail circumcised the next day? Yes. Whoa. Whoa. That No. Okay. Again, let me help you cuz I think you're getting confused. God made a covenant with Abraham and in order for that covenant to take effect, he had to obey God in circumcising everyone in his house. Not seed, but those who actually lived with him in the house. I agree with you. I Yeah. So now, so now you have to answer this question. The Abraham with the covenant with Abraham and his descendants, right? Right. He says, "This is my covenant, right?" Well, let's keep reading. Yeah. Read. You could read it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're not getting away from this one. Oh, we going to keep reading. Watch this. We'll see about that. Yeah. Go ahead. You know how many times I read, bro? Okay. Watch this, bro. You're not Hey, bro. I'm not It says, "My covenant, as for me," watch this. "Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations, no longer shall your name be called Abraham, but your or Abram, but your name shall be called Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful. I will make nations of you. Kings shall come from you, and I will establish uh I and and I wait. And my covenant between me and I will establish my covenant between me, you, and your descendants after you in their generation. For an everlasting, listen, that's the key word. Watch this. For an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. Also, I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God. Are you ready? I'm so ready. You ready? So ready. And God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants, after you throughout their generation. This is my covenant which you shall keep between me, you or this is my This Wait, wait. And it shall be a sign of what?" No, it says, "This is my covenant with you." No. Whoa, whoa, whoa. It says, listen, watch. I'm going to read it again. It says, "This is my covenant with you shall be circumcised, and you shall No, no, no, no. Go back. Go back. Go. No, no, no. Go back. It doesn't say this is my sign. It says this is my covenant with you. Okay. What What verse are we at? Nine. Well, I don't You're the one who has it in front of you. I just know it from memory. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Verse. Okay. It says, "And God said, listen, watch this. And God said to Abram, Abraham, as for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generation. This is my covenant which you shall keep between me, you, and your descendants after you. Every male child among you shall be circumcised, and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be for a sign of the covenant between me and you. So, let me ask you a question. Is that a is the Wait, wait, wait. Is the circumcision a sign of the covenant? Yes or no? Yeah. So the circumstance you said it was not I have I haven't finished the answer man come on why you know I get you know I get you know I get excited bro I get excited but don't mind me don't mind me I get excited it's okay so God says this is the covenant this is what you are to do okay and when you when you do this right when your family is now circumcised that is a sign that you are upkeeping my covenant Right? You're trying to make it seem that circumcision is just a sign of the covenant, but the covenant is something else. I'm saying as the text you just read says, the covenant is to circumcise in the flesh. Just wait. Just wait. The covenant, he says, "This is my covenant. You have to circumcise everybody. This is it." His descendants and who else? All and the people in his household. Correct. Okay. Foreigners in his household. Okay. Now, now watch this. Yeah, it is important. Now, we there is the major distinction that's going to be made here. Is Ishmamail a descendant of Abraham? We're going to find out. Yes, he is. No, no, no. I need to ask. Not according to the promise. Okay. Is he a blood descendant? We're going to get to that. We haven't even Dude, you're going to the end of the book. Let's Let's finish. You haven't just brother just stick with me one by one. We're going to read the whole thing. We're going to read the whole thing. We're reading the whole thing. Is Ishmamail a blood son of Abraham? Yes. Good. Did Abraham go and take Ishmael to be circumcised? Yes. So, Ishmamail is part of the circumcision covenant, correct? No. That was a part of the covenant that God made with Abraham. Bro, no. I don't think I don't think you understand. God didn't covenant with Ishmail. God made a covenant with That's why it's called the Abraham. I'm making sense right now, bro. Listen to what I'm saying. Okay, Muslim, listen. Or uh Liviano, listen. Yeah. The covenant was not with Ishmael. The covenant was with Abraham. The requirement for him to fulfill that was to circumcise everyone. Maybe maybe you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying the covenant is with Ishma. I'm saying there are two covenants. one under Abraham and one under Isaac. Okay. The one under Abraham, Ishmael is part of that covenant. The one under Isaac, Ishmael is not part of that covenant. The justification is this. God says, "I will make a covenant between me, you Abraham, and your descendants." Okay? So, this includes Abraham and his descendants. What is that? circumcision. Ishmael was gone and circumcised the next day. Ishmael kept circumcising his children. As Josephus tells us, Ishmael is part, let me finish. Ishmael is part of the circumcision covenant. Now, the later covenant with Isaac, Ishmael is not a part of it. But guess who else is not a part of it? Darren, take a guess. Abraham is not a part of the covenant with Isaac. Is is Abraham now out of the covenant, sir? Cuz it says, "As as for Isaac, I will establish my covenant with him." Correct. And his descendants after him, correct? Is Abraham a descendant of Isaac? No. Thank you. So, Abraham is not a part of the covenant with Bro, you said a whole lot when I said nothing. I'm going to help you out in a minute. Are you ready? No, you need help. Listen, everything you said, I'm about to break down and thought we we'll see about that. Here we go. All right. So, first of all, just make this clear that God did not establish his a his uh his covenant with all of his descendants. Watch only through a lineage only only the second covenant. Okay. Watch this. Watch this. All right. So then, okay, let's just keep reading. We'll break it down as we go. We'll break it down as we go. It says, "Then God, okay, so we we got up to verse 11. And it shall it shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin. And it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. So this the circumcision was a sign between them two that he had to circumcise everybody. Even though wait between God and Abraham, right? Correct. Beautiful. All right, keep reading. But then he's going to tell you the covenantal line. Watch this. And it says, "And the uncircumcised male child who is not circumcised in the flesh of of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people and be broken and because he has broken my covenant." Right? Number 15. It says, "Then God said to Abraham, ask for Before that, before that, let me read, bro, we just just a quick clarification. If you are not circumcised, you break the covenant off the covenant." Perfect. Keep going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you'll see how that transitions into circumcision. I already know where you are. Watch out. Okay, watch this. And then God said to Abraham, "Ask for Sarai, your wife. You shall not call her name Sarai. But what?" Sarah Sarah. Sarah, your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai. But what? Sarah. That's important. And Abraham fell on his face and laughed. What did he say? As for Sarai, your And no. Then Abraham said or then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai, your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, give you a son by her, and I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations, kings, and people shall be from her." Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and watch this. And said, "Shall a child be born to a man who was 100 years old, and shall Sarah, who is 90, bear a child?" Then Abraham said to God, what did Abraham say to God? You know it. Oh that may live before you. Yep. Then God said that's going to be very important. Then God said very important. Then God said what Sarah your wife will bear you a son and you shall call his name what? Isaac. And I will establish my covenant with him and it will be for an everlasting covenant. Let me ask you a question. Are there two everlasting covenants or just one? Yeah. So there is two of them and one of them was broken. Wait. So, there's two everlasting covenants. Yep. You sure? I'm very sure. Do you do you want me to show you? There's not, but I can show you. Well, let's keep going. Let's keep show. Show me that there are two everlasting covenants. So, in the same chapter, listen. In the same chapter, he talks about an everlasting covenant and then a few, you know, in the same literally the same chapter, he talks about the everlasting covenant coming through Isaac, but he says there two everlasting covenants at work. I got you, man. This This is like a This is like a piece of cake for me, bro. I hope so, cuz it gets worse. Hey, I hope so because it gets worse from here. So, I hope you I hope it's a piece of cake. It It does get worse, but not for me. Let me tell you that. So, check this out. Right. There's two everlasting covenants. You want one of them is broken. Okay. What are the two everlasting covenants? I just showed you in the text. God first says, "I will establish a covenant with you and your descendants." So there's a covenant with Abraham and his general descendants. Okay? What is that? That's circumcision. All right? Ishmamail by definition is under that. And all other sons of Abraham whether they are bloodonss or not are under that because he had to circumcise them. Okay? Then he said, "For Sarah, I'm going to Sarai. Your name is now Sarah. You will give birth to a son. His name will be Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him and his descendants." Awesome. Okay. What covenant was that? Let me let me finish. Let me finish. Abraham is not a descendant of Isaac. Correct. I agree. Because he the covenantal line goes down, not up. So, wait. So, Abraham is not a part of the second covenant, right? Well, I'm I'm waiting for you to show us what covenant that was. I just told you the one with Isaac. Okay. What covenant was that? What agreement? What What was the sign of the covenant? You read it, right? What What did it say again? No. Tell me. You know what? Okay. You know what a covenant is, correct? It's a promise, a contract, right? Do you know that every every covenant came with a sign? There's going to be kings and peoples. I we No, that is the promise of what would happen in the covenant. But that's not that's not the sign of the covenant. All right. You're you're this is completely tangential to my point. No. Whoa. You see, you're getting ahead of yourself. A covenant is a contractual agreement between parties. God initiates this. I'm saying God gives you requirements. Listen, God gives you requirements and he gives you promises that are attached to the covenant. Show me what the covenant was that he made with him. Show me the the actual the the the the laws that he told us to keep in order to keep that covenant and show me the promises that he made. Perfect. So So Darren, you're with all due respect, this is a red herring. I'm going to tell you how it is a red herring. Okay. Whatever the covenant with Isaac is, it's tangential. You want to know why? Why? Because what is what is tangential? What is that? You It means it's irrelevant to my point. It has little to do with my point. It has everything to do with your point. Just let me explain to you how. It's okay. Relax. Okay. So, there's a covenant with Abraham and his descendants. Yeah. Correct. Okay. And then there's a covenant with Isaac only and Isaac's descendants. Correct. Look, this is new to me. Go ahead. What do you mean new to you? We just read it. I thought it was all I thought it was all one covenant. It's brother. What do you mean new to you? We just read it. As for I agree. Sarah, she will bear. Yeah. As for Sarah, she will bear you a son. I will establish my covenant with him. Who? Isaac and his descendants. Correct. Abraham is not a Isaac. And all his descendants. Just one second. Abraham is not a descendant of Isaac, is he? Bro, no. So, he can't be in that second covenant, can he? Dude, you're Why are you reversing the covenant? It went through Abraham, then it went to Isaac, and then it went to Jacob and his descendants. Oh my god, Darren. It's I don't know how you're missing this. Abraham had many children. Yes, I agree. Okay. Many children. We're going to see what God said about the rest of them. Are you ready? Just Just one sec. One sec. Abraham had many children, right? Correct. Okay. Good. One of those children is Isaac. Yes. Okay. God said, "Isaac, I will establish my covenant with him." Okay. And his descendants after him. Correct. Okay. Are Isaac's descendants his brothers? Liliano, come on, bro. Answer the question. Are Isaac's descendants his brothers? No. Are Isaac's descendants his father? No. Okay, good. So those people, his brothers and his father are under the circumcision covenant. Correct? Yes. But there you go. So we have we have a we have a we have a but there you go. So we have we have a his descendants were the only ones that were circumcised. Those who were in the house slaves were circumcised according to that covenant. The covenantal promise was to Abraham, but he had to do everything in the He had to circumcise everyone. I I understand. But you're Well, let me ask you a question. Those who are not his descendants that lived in his house, are they also? Yes, they're also Okay. So, now they were required to get they were required to get circumcised. Correct. Yeah. Are they part of Isaac's covenant? No. So, it can't be the same covenant, right? Dude, okay. I think you're I think you're mis I think you're misunderstanding what it is. There you go, Darren. The sign of the covenant. Keep going, man. It's very simple. Well, can we keep reading? There's a there's a covenant. There's a covenant with Isaac. Can we keep reading? Can we keep reading? There's a covenant with Abraham. Can Can we keep reading? Sure, man. Let's let the Bible interpret the Bible. How about we do that? Because I think you're getting confused. Go for it. Because even Wait, first of all, even the Quran admits that the covenant came through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Uh, the covenant came through Isaac and Abraham also had a covenant. I agree. Do let me ask you a question. Do you believe that prophethood was in this covenant? In Isaac's covenant? Yes. And in Abraham's covenant? Yes. Well, okay. So, you believe that God ordained prophethood in Revelation for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. In Abraham's covenant, there was the prophet Muhammad and his direct children. In Isaac's covenant, there was the whole line of the Israelites and the Israelite prophets. Well, let's read. I I I I I don't know if I understand, but I want to see if you can uh give us some understanding on this verse. I'm going to read a chapter in the Quran real quick and then we'll double back here because, you know, I don't want to I don't want to leave this covenant situation. But I want to read I want to show you guys something. Uh I'm going to put on the screen so you guys can see it. I'm going to read Surah 29 27. See if he can give us an explanation to this verse. Um, as you guys can see, surah 29:27 acknowledges the covenant that God made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It says this, "And we blessed him." Who's who's we and who's him? We agree that's Allah blessed him. Abraham talking about Abraham with Isaac and later who? Jacob. Where's Ishmael? That's the That's the second covenant. My guy. My Libyan, relax. It's okay. It's okay, bro. It's okay. Hey, it's okay. I'm not trying to cook you, bro. Listen, I'm not trying to cook. I just want to have a conversation with you. You can't The point is you can't cook me with this. I know. Okay, we're just having a conversation, but I need you to be honest here. It says, "And we blessed him, Abraham, with Isaac and later Jacob, no Ishmael, right?" Yeah. You You agree? Hold on, wait, wait. You agree that you want Do you want Do you want Darren? Do you want an answer? Well, let me finish the verse. Let's finish the verse. No, you you just asked if I you just asked me if I agreed. You want to ask? No, I just asked you if you agree that Ishmael's name is not here. Correct. Of course, it's not here. Okay. Well, let me finish. Does that have to do with anything? Well, I'm just going to let me finish reading. It says, "And we blessed him with Isaac and later Jacob and has reserved or ordained if depends on what you want to use. Prophethood." What does it mean to reserve prophethood? He gave them prophethhood in their line. Ah, and revelation or scripture. For whose descendants? For Isaac's descendants. All right. And we gave him as what? His reward in this life and in the hereafter. That's exactly what Let me establish what I'm about to say first. Even in the Quran, it says, "We blessed him Abraham with Isaac and later Jacob." We agree Ishmamail's name's not there. and says we have reserved prophethood and revelation for his descendants. So according according to Muslim even according to the covenant that God made through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, prophethood and revelation was only reserved for the descendants of Isaac. Correct. All right. So now so Darren, you've been talking for 3 minutes now. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. Let me respond. I got you. I got you, my brother. Right. Okay. Good. That has nothing to do with my argument because I agree there is a covenant established with Isaac's line. That verse is talking about Isaac's line. It goes from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob. Come on, preach. It has it has nothing to do this verse has nothing to do with Ishmamail. Other in other places in the Quran, Abraham does ask for a prophet from Ishmamail's line. Him and Ishmamail together get a prophet will ask for a prophet from their line. Well, if he did that, he would lie. Let me lie. But look what he said, brother. Oh my gosh. Sorry. Right. Just because you have a covenant through Isaac, it doesn't mean that it negates Abraham's circumcision covenant. You're not answering the objection. The objection is we Muslims agree that the covenant that was initial that started off that kicked off is through Isaac through Jacob and through the Israelites and through the prophets that came to Israel. And guess what? That covenant was broken and replaced as per Jesus's words when he says to the Pharisees, "The kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to another people that will produce." Yeah. Those are the Gentiles. In Genesis, in Genesis, those are the Gentiles. In Genesis, in Genesis, those are the Gentiles. In Genesis, in Genesis, those are the Gentiles. In Genesis, in Genesis, what's it called? Isaac or sorry, Jacob is on his deathbed and he's blessing each son of his and he gets to Judah which represents the covenant because they're the uh leader tribe of Israel. He gets to Judah and he says Judah is a lion and he says that the scepter will not depart from Judah until Sheilo comes according to the taram Jonathan until Messiah comes. So when Messiah comes that scepter that covenant will depart from Judah. All right let me exactly what one second and that's what happened. Let me finish. And that's exactly what happened when Jesus came. They rejected him. They uh uh belied him. And God replaced the Jews with a gentile people that produced its fruits. And it's definitely not Christianity cuz you guys worship the gods. Okay. So now my turn. Okay. No, here. Bring it back now. Bring it back now cuz you went on a whole thing. Last thing. You literally ran from this whole verse. I know, Darren. I just responded. What are you talking about? But you're not allowing me to respond to you. That's what I'm saying. You went off on a whole tangent about the covenant, but you didn't address something that's written very important in this verse. Yeah. Darren, last thing I'm going to say. Okay. How does this answer that two covenant issue in Genesis 17? Well, first of all, let me say that it answers a lot because you never talked about the actual context of this verse. The context of this verse is prophethood and revelation. You agree? Prophethhood in revelation is what's being spoken of in this verse classified for you said in other places it refers to Ishmael being as a part of the covenant. Only problem with that. I didn't listen to my two covenants. But my god I just let you speak strong man in my position though. Okay please. I got first of all I didn't say a lot of people be saying that to me. I don't even know what a straw man is. Bro, I'm just trying to give an argument. You don't know who man is. I don't. I told you I'm very lame at this, bro. I just know the Bible. That's it. No problem, man. But what I'm saying is you ran from the context of this verse. And if you are right about God establishing a covenant and prophethood through another prophet outside of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you literally single-handedly just help us to identify a a contradiction in the Quran because this verse says that I have reserved prophethood and revelation for his descendants. So Allah reserved prophethood and revelations for the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but made Ishmael a prophet. All right, Darren, click that word right there in the here. Go on. And Eric, you want me to? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Click orain right there. That the next one. And we have placed in his descendants. What? Yeah. Is it is that we have placed or we have reserved? We have placed in his descendants prophethood and revelation. You guys you guys translated it to reserved. Why? Why that? Yeah. Yeah. doesn't mean reservation uh in exclusiv uh exclusive I don't know how to say exclusive reservation okay means we put we placed prophethood in that lineage right correct so let me ask you a question has there been a prophet let me ask you a question has there been a prophet outside of the lineage of Abraham Isaac and Jacob I'm asking you a question has there been a prophet outside of the lineage of Abraham Isaac and Jacob except for the prophet Muhammad Good question. Yes. According to my I'm going to tell you according to my monities. Okay. Who is Yeah. My manades is probably the greatest rabbi to walk the earth. According to my monities go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Is there some Is there some fun? No. I just It's funny. I've never heard some of these words, but this first time I'm here. Yeah. I think I think I think rabbis know that what the Torah says and understand it better than you. Anyways, according to my monities, he says in his epistle to Yemen, he says that we do not reject a prophet based on his lineage because the Torah teaches that there are gentile prophets and he lists six or seven gentile prophets including Balam, okay? including Elephas, the friend of Job, including Job himself, including other prophetic figures that are not Israelites according to the Jewish tradition. Okay, there are many. That's number one. Number two, yeah. Well, yeah, it's the letter to Yemen by Mymonities, Moshe Iben. Okay. He says and as and I quote the truthful the truthfulness of prophecy does not depend on one's lineage rather it depends on the soundness of his doctrine. And he lists six or seven non-Israelite prophets. I have the quote memorized. So let me ask you a question. Does God ordain prophets or Let me let me just let me let me finish. Okay, let me finish. Even if there were no uh non-Jewish prophets, it does not follow that there can't be non-Jewish prophets because Isaac's covenant according to your Lord and Savior that you worship is done away with. Correct. As far as major prophets. No, no. As far as major, it's done away with. The gift of prophetic is still here, but major prophets, there are none. major prophets. What are you talking? The Bible says for the law and the prophets were only until John. But since John, the kingdom of God was preached up up until then, it was until John. That's right. All the pre All the prophets were pointing to the person which was Jesus Christ. No, it does. It doesn't say there's no more. Yeah, you took that verse out of context. It doesn't say there are no say there were no more prophets. Period. I'm saying there are no more major prophets. Where does it say that? Meaning for the law and the prophets were only until John. Yeah. Yeah. Until John. That's right. Correct. So how did the prophet Muhammad become a prophet only until John? So so wait Darren, you know how you just like buried yourself to be honest. How tell me. Okay. The prophets were until John, right? The major prophets. Was Jesus prophets? You say it again. Was Jesus a major prophet? Jesus took the office of a prophet. Yes. Was he a major one? Yeah. Well, Jesus he was the prophet like Moses. Was he was he was the prophet like Moses in 1818? Okay. Was he was he was he after John or before John? He was after. Thank you. So major prophethood does not because they were pointing to the per I just said because all the prophets Thank you very much. You just missed what you literally just missed what I said. All the prophets was not until the person was Jesus. That's what that's exactly what I said. All the prophets in the Old Testament were pointing to him. Okay. So wait, for example, Isaiah 48:16. Just one sec. One sec. Now we're going to prophecy. Now you're taking us somewhere else. Well, I'm just showing you all the prophets are pointing to the person and I'm saying all prophecies were to pointing to Muhammad. No. You want you want to check it? It's not Muhammad's not in the Bible. You want you want to test that theory? Muhammad is not in the Bible. That's not theory. We We can We're not having discussion right now, bro. You want to go there? You want to You want to do You want to do Muhammad the Wait, can we finish the covenant? Yes. Can we finish the covenant first? Are you running from the covenant? You're the one You're the one who took us here. Why are you running from this covenant I'm about to give you? You're the one who took us here. You're the one who took us here. I'm on No, you asked about the covenant, not me. You took us somewhere else. What are you talking about? You asked, but you asked about the covenant. I started and we and we and we established that there in Genesis 17. There is a covenant through Isaac, which Jesus is part of, Moses is a part of, all those prophets are part of. And then there is a covenant through Abraham and that is a circumcision which the Arabs held on to according to Josephus. He says that the Arabs have from this tradition from Abraham this circumcision that they circumcised their boys at the age of 12 12 years old. So the Arabs continued this covenant up until the time of the prophet. They continued circumcising even though they went astray and they worshiped other gods. So now this is the important point. Go to Genesis 17:18 and read it for us. Well, well, that's what I'm doing. I'm I'm reading it straight down. All right. You ready? Yeah. Genesis Genesis 17:18. Okay. 17:18. It says, "And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael may live before you." Then God said, "Abraham, your wife, wait, wait, wait, wait. What does it mean to live before you?" Yeah, he he was asking for Abraham's other son to live before him. Cuz remember, God made him a promise about another son. He was still worried about the other one. Just wait, wait. I didn't ask. I said, "What does it mean to live before God?" Yeah, that that's what it meant. May this one live before you? No. Um, what does it mean live before me? What is that to live before God? That's exactly what it is. Just like Isaac repeating it. I'm saying what does it mean? Isaac lived before God. Okay. Lived before God. Okay. Lived before God. Okay. Lived before God. Okay. Are you serious? Are you trolling me? Bro, it doesn't tell you here. Okay, I know it doesn't tell you. You're presupposing on the scripture. You're supposed to understand that. For example, I can show you how Isaac lived before God. Just Darren, just can you show me how I lived before God? Brother, you're you're all over the place. One second. In Genesis 15, God says, "Abram, walk before me." Correct. Right. What does that mean? He walked before God before his he was obedient and righteous. Right. Correct. Okay. Good. So, can we can we conclude that Abraham is asking for his son his eldest son to be Yeah. bore his eldest son to be his eldest son to be obed to be his eldest son to be obed 20. All right. New King James. I'll read it. Watch this. Then God said to Abraham, uh, watch this. Uh, verse 18. And Abraham said to God, I said read verse 20. Bro, can I read the verse? My God. No. No. Don't Don't twist things. I said, you told me to read it. I'm going to read it from the Darren. Darren, I said any Bible verse 20. Well, let me read let me read the whole context. Okay, good. Read the whole context. Thank you. I'm just reading a verse before. Can I read a verse? But because I know some translations add no when the Hebrew there is no translation. You just said use any translation. What are you saying? I said any I said any Yeah, Darren. I said any translation verse 20. Don't straw man. Right, bro. Darren, is that is that is that what I Okay, but but I did I I said any translation verse 20, right, Darren? Is that right? You did, bro. But okay, I bro usually Hey, this is where I would do approach. Okay, good. All right, so don't I have a lot of respect for Orthodox, y'all. Show don't don't do don't do the dishonest spin. I said any any translation verse 20 because I know in some translations But didn't you not just quote NIV? I didn't quote any NIV. You said it said yes. No, I'm saying no translation says yes other than the NIV. Brother, you're asking me a question and cutting me off. I like I don't know what to do with you, bro. I didn't quote NIV, right? I didn't even know that there was a translation that says yes. I said verse 20 implies yes. All you have to do is just read it. Okay. Now, if uh uh does the New King James say no in the English? Yeah. Does it say that? Does it say that in the Hebrew? It says then God said no. Does it say that child? You shall call his name. Look, he's not he's not he's not Look, he's not answering. Doesn't say that in the Hebrew. Why do you say I'm not answering, bro? Relax. We We here just talking, bro. I know you getting I know you're getting flustered, bro, cuz this is when when I when I start when I start seeing dishonesty, I get flustered. So, let let's let's be honest. How am I being bro? How am I being dishonest for real? Because I said I said any translation verse 20. And you started doing the the the whole thing. Yeah, I didn't say the whole thing uh any translation because I know some translations add the word no when the Hebrew doesn't say that. But when I read you if you if you want to be honest when I read this verse earlier did I in did I in include that word? What? When I read this verse earlier, did you hear me include the word no? No. No. Thank you. You did not. I was being honest with the text. Right. But now you said, "Oh, well, I thought it was any translation." Well, you told me any translation, bro. That's I said I said verse 20, Darren. Any translation. Is that right? Yes. Is that right? Okay, there you go. I'm not going to look, we're not trying to, you know, I'm hearing you out. I'm hearing you out. All right. Go ahead. So, now hear me out properly. All right. Some translations like the the New King James add the word no when it doesn't exist in the Hebrew. Right, Darren? Yeah, for sure. Okay. No doesn't exist. It's implied. It's implied. That's right. That's why I said any translation verse 20. Now, no doesn't exist. The yes does exist in every translation in verse 20. Read verse 20. It it says, "I will it says Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him." Where is he ask? Where where you see that? When he says, "As for Ishmael," where is that? No. No. He said, "Abraham said to God, oh that Ishmael may live before you." Yeah. Then God said, "Sarah, your wife will bear you a son." Then you shall call his name Isaac. Where's then? Then where where's Ishmael? Keep reading. It said, "I will establish my covenant with him, and it will be for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him." Still don't see Ishmael. Good. Now, as for Ishmael. Good. There you go. Ask for Ishmail. What? Are you ready? I'm ready. Ask for Ishmail. Are you ready? Can you let me exedute this verse for you? No. No. Read it before it ex read it before you exeute. Go ahead. I'm going to exedute this scripture for you. Okay. We just We We watch this. I have what? I have what? He said, "Yeah, I heard you." So what? So So God God heard Abraham. Yes. So, here's what I'm going to do. No, but watch. Watch what he said he's going to do. Watch. Listen. Wait. I'm going to keep reading. Keep reading. Keep keep Please don't run. Don't run. All right. You don't run, Darren. No, you're running. I'm about to show you what this means. I'm going to I'm going to snatch you from your tail, man. Run. All right, you guys. Hey, this is how conversation should go, y'all. This is This is some good stuff, man. This is all It's all love. You guys know it's all love. So, make sure y'all stay respectful. No, but definitely I'm going to I'm going to read this verse. Um, it says this, "And as for Ishma, I've heard you. Behold, I have blessed him." Watch this. I will make him fruitful. I will multiply him exceedingly. He shall be 12 princes. I will make him a great nation. Beautiful. Beautiful. Can I talk now? Explain. Beautiful. In the Bible, when it says God heard someone, what does that mean? Yeah. He said, "I heard you. I heard your cry." No. When Jesus says, "Thank you. Thank you, Father, for hearing me, for you always hear me." He's ask he's talking about God accepting his prayers, right? Yeah. Well, he's saying, "Yeah, I've heard you." What's this? And he told He tells you, he literally tells you what he did. Good. So, then God accepted Abraham's prayer and he's saying, "Listen, I heard you. I'm going to make Ishmamail a great nation. I'm going to multiply him, make him fruitful, and he will be 12 princes." is right. Correct. Correct. What does it mean to be a great nation in the Torah? Deuteronomy 4. That's not It just means a great nation great in number. That's all it is. Oh, okay. Well, we'll see about that. In Deuteronomy chapter 4, great nation means a nation that worships God and has a body of laws. You said Deuteronomy chapter 4 says that. Yep. Let's look Let's look at it. Then I'm going to take you back to here cuz I'm going to help you real quick. No problem. I'm I'm helping you out. This this trust me, you ain't you ain't you you ain't never seen this before, man. Oh, bro. Stop, man. You never had a layman like me doing some doing some things to you, huh? Brother, and you said Deuteronomy chapter 4, it's it's in there. It's when it's when Moses is speaking, he says, uh, what other nation so great that has a great body of laws? What other nation so great that it has their Lord near them? Yeah. For what great nation is there that God has so near to it? Okay, it's a question. Yeah. Yeah. Read. What great nation is there that has near to them? Yeah. Read. What what nation that's great has with them? Yeah. Read. No. No. Read that portion right quick. It says, "For what great nation is there that God has so near to it as the Lord our God is to us." So, do you agree that there are other great nations? That's not what it's saying. It's saying what? Let me I'll tell I'll tell you what it's saying. It says, "What nation is so great to have the Lord their God near them?" So greatness greatness is having the Lord your God near you. Right? Now, I just want to I just want to make something known very clearly here. What I'm not arguing is that why why are you coming here? What I'm not Yeah. What I'm not arguing is that every great nation has to be a God worshiing nation. There are instances in the Tanakh where Babylon is called great for example. Other nations are called great. But the reason that this is important is because Abraham asks God for Ishmamail to walk before him. Meaning that he's great in the context of Abraham's prayer that he will be walking before God. Do you agree? So, so this is the question Darren. Do you agree that Abraham when he asked God when he prayed to God, he wants Ishmamail to be a great nation as in a nation that worships God or a pagan nation that's many in number? Okay. So, let me go ahead and answer the first question first and then I'm going to double back to that one. So, I'm going to show on the screen. Uh, we're going to read it cuz you know, we like to show receipts. You know, we like scripture, not literature. You know what I'm saying? really like to show receipts and we're going to see and I want the chat. Maybe maybe it's just me. I don't know. So, let's uh hold on you guys. I know it's taking me a little time to get my camera off. All right. So, real quick. So, this is the verse that he's referring to. Deuteronomy chapter 4 verse 7, right? He said, "A great nation is a nation." Well, he said there are other great nations that don't encompass worshiping God, but it's a question. It says, "For what great nation is there that the son of God has so near to it?" Meaning there are other great nations of God. What other great nations is there that God has so God near to it? It says as the Lord our God is to us. You said son of God. So he's saying there listen hold on. He said there's other great nations. But what nation is there out there that has God so near to it than us? For whatever reason, this is this is like a question. We may call upon him. So there are other great nations, but what other great nations are there? that has him so near like we like we do. So he's admitting there are other great nations. So I asked you to tell me what a great nation is. Yeah. You're not you're not answering the objection. Well, I I'm about to I'm about to go back to the I'm about to go back to it in a minute, but I just wanted to show how you actually added your own preconceived theological presupposition to this. It a great nation. I didn't I didn't add I didn't add anything, but just answer that. Well, no. You you added what a great nation was. No, that's not what Deuteronomy teaches. I I did add it says right that what other nation is so great to have the Lord their God? What other nation? What translation you read? By the way, this is New King. I'm always New King James. Anytime I refer to a scripture, okay, New King James. Well, yeah, the Hebrew when I check it, it says, "What other nation is so great to have the Lord your God near them? what other nation is so so great to have a great body of laws that I'm setting before you today. But remember, I even remember I even granted that sure there's other great nations that are pagan nations. No problem. The point is this, okay? There are two kinds of great nations. Okay. There's a there's a nation that's great in number and a nation that's great because they have the Lord their God near them because they worship him and because they have a body of laws that they obey. All right. The same idea is in Exodus where God says, "These Israelites are a stiff necked people, right? I'm going to execute my punishment and my anger upon them. Then I will make you Moses into a great nation." Right? So God connects Israel's disobedience with being ungrate and Moses's obedience with being great. Right? But even that I grant that there could be a great nation that's not worshiping God. The point is this. When Abraham is praying for Ishmamail, correct? He prays for Ishmamail to live to walk before God. Amen. Obedience. He did. When God responds, he's responding in the context of Abraham's prayer. Because do you agree Abraham wants his son to worship God or does Abraham want his son to be a pagan larger in numbers? No. Which one? That's why he asked. Okay, good. So, can I help you now? So, no, just answer. Is the context that Abraham is asking for Ishmamail to worship God and be obedient? Yes, that's what he's asking. Okay, good. Does God tell you how God responded? Does God say, "I have heard you and I will make him great?" Yes. But can I show you how what else happened? Okay, so great is in the context of being obedient, right? Can I go or not? Can you Can you Can you answer the question? I'm trying to help you. I'm You're going to get every answer you need when I read. No, but I'm I'm putting you I'm putting right now. I'm putting you on the hot seat. Okay. I'm gonna I love being on the hot seat. I'm going to All right. So, so in the So, in the hot seat, is Ishmael being a great nation connected to Abraham's prayer? Yes. Answers his prayer and I'm going to show you why. Thank you. So, Ishmail is a great God. We could have got past this a long time ago if you would have just let me keep going. You just conceded by the way. Are you ready? I didn't concede anything. I'm going to show you why. I'm I'm ready. Okay. It says, "Then God said, Sarah, your wife." Now, it's my interpretation now. Now, it's my exit Jesus. Now, now you can do this. Let while I speak until I'm done and I'll concede. It says, "No, Sarah, your wife shall bear you a son. You shall call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him. As for Ishmael," this is what he's talking about, Chad. He said,"Abraham, I've what? Heard you." And watch this. He said, "And as for Ishmael, I have bless him. I will make him fruitful. I will multiply him exceedingly, and he shall be get 12 princes, and I will make him a great nation. I would have been called Muslim if that's where he stopped. But you know what's unfortunate, my guy? There's a threeletter word that comes next. Do you know what it is? Go ahead, brother. Go ahead. Look down. What is the chat saying down there? Just go ahead brother. I don't know. My my chat is different than yours. Says but. Yeah. But you know what that means? Yeah. I agree that is established with Isaac. Yeah. He said, "But he said I will establish." Listen, I don't know why he's I don't know why he's laughing. Can we agree with I will make him fruitful. I will multiply him exceedingly. I will give him 12 princes. I will even make him a great nation. But oh man, but wait. But my covenant. No, dude. Relax. It's okay. It's okay. I know you never been in this position before. It's okay. Watch this. He says, "But what?" But what? What did he say after that? Leon. My covenant I will establish with Isaac. Game over. Yo, he he he's making his own happiness. Look, that's gang time. Yo, Darren is making his own. He said, I will bless you. He said, Abraham, because you've asked me, I've heard you. I'll make you. I'll multiply you. I'll increase you exceedingly. I'll even make you a great nation. But my covenant, I will establish. But Darren, but guess what? That's game time. Yeah. Guess what? Am I right about it? Ready? Ready? Ready, Darren? Ready, Dar? Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. Guess what? We a We already agreed the covenant was with Isaac like 15 minutes ago. Why are you making that as a point now? When we agreed the initial Stop cutting me off. When we agreed the initial covenant was with Isaac, we know it's with Isaac. What what point were you trying to make there, Liliana? You thought that God made a covenant with with Isaac because or Ishmael because Abraham asked No, that's not the point. Oh my god. There's no way you can't track Darren. Nobody is arguing. Wait, is it me? Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. I need to make sure it's just Is it just me, Chad? I don't know what's going on. It's just me. Am I getting pranked? Nobody, nobody is arguing. You just told me to read a verse. You took me to that verse. I took you to that verse because that establishes the prophethood of Muhammad. Not because Let me finish. Darren, I feel so sorry for you. It's either you can't track or you're doing this on purpose cuz you know I'm lame. I'm trying, bro. I'm trying my best. All right. So, Darren, let's let's just recap quick. Did we agree earlier that there is a universal covenant with Abraham and a covenant with Isaac? No, we we agree God made a covenant with Abraham and it went through Isaac. Nope. Nope. You conceded by the way. So there was a covenant with Abraham. What? I never said there was two covenants. You conceded because you said Yeah. Did I ever say there was two covenants? You said you said earlier, remember you said earlier that Abraham's descendant or uh Abraham is not a descendant of Isaac. Abraham's or Isaac's siblings are not descendants of Isaac. Therefore, they cannot be part of Isaac's covenant. We already went through clear up. You got to let me finish. You got to let me finish. Okay. We already agreed that Isaac began and started the covenant. The prophethood went through Israel. And Jesus informs us that that covenant ended. We talked about this a like 100 times. So you telling me but my covenant it's with Isaac. We know it's with Isaac. Correct. It started with Isaac. That's where 29 27. That doesn't that doesn't answer the point. The point is Ishmamail is to be is promised to be a great nation that worships God. Right. Yeah. But is but what does it have to do with All right. When did I become a great nation that worships God? But no, I'm asking you when Genesis 25. No, no, no. In Genesis 25. Genesis Genesis 25 was it to the prophet Muhammad. Wait, Ish Ishmamail became a great is a nation that worships God in Genesis 25. Yeah. You be 12 princes. It names all who all those princes and who they were and their tribes. Wait, wait. They became a nation that worships God. Yeah. Genesis 20. Well, in Genesis 25 is when they became a great nation. Nobody says where does it say W. What's Wait, wait, hold on. Wait. Where does it say worship? Hold. Oh, no. Now, now he wants to take it back. Wait, wait. Where does it say? No, no, no. Now you want to take it back. Now, where does it say worship God? Now, now he's getting where does it say it's not a nation that worships God? Show me in that verse where it says he would be a nation that worshiped God. Show me. Okay, let's let's recap here because it looks like No, no, wait. Show me. I need evidence. I'm I'm I'm answering now. You have to follow. Okay. We already said that when Abraham asked for Ishmael that Ishmael may live before God, you agreed that living and walking before God is being obedient. Correct? That was a question. God said no. Okay. One by one. Is Abraham asking for Ishmamail to be obedient? That's what he's asking. Okay, good. Does God say in response, "I have heard you." But he says no. Where does he say no? In that verse, it's implied. He says, "Sir, show me where it says no." Call his name Isaac. Show me where it says no. Let me ask you a question. Is it called No, no, no. Show me where it says no. When God said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." Yeah. Because the Bible The Bible say The Bible is concerning The Bible is Look, look, you're running away right now. The Bible is concerning Yep. You're running. The Bible is concerning Yeah, that the Bible is concerning the Bible, the revelation of the biblical text is concerning that lineage. Okay. At the time of Stop Stop cutting me off. Stop cutting me off. Stop cutting me off. You're cutting me off. You keep talking forever, bro. And then you cut me off. So, what do you mean? No. No. Darren, I barely cut you off. I barely cut you off. I let you speak. Sometimes I cut you off. Okay. Remember you said, "Oh, well, look, he's the God of uh Isaac, Abraham, and Jacob." Okay, that's not an exclusive statement. That's point number one. Point number two, you said he said no. Where does he say that? He says I have heard the text. It's not implied. Where is it implied? Yeah, he said no. He said, "Sir, your wife shall bear you a son." You shall call his wife. She She will. Where does it Where's the no here? Yeah. Well, that's what he said. Well, I know, but where's the no? It's It's implied. He said, "Sary, your wife will son you." So, where's the implication? Then he says, "Okay, Abraham, but I've heard you, though. I've heard you." But where's the implication? Well, that's what it that's what it is. Where? Sarah, your wife going to bear you a son. Where where's the implication? If I ask for my If I ask for my sister to drive a car and my mom says, "Your brother's going to drive you." The answer is no. Abraham doesn't ask for a covenant. He asks for Ishmamail to be obedient. Right? So what? Okay. Right. So, can can you can you be can you be can you be obedient without a covenant? Yes. That's what happened. There you go. So, it's not an helping me helping me. So, where because I already agree Isaac got the covenant at that time. What whether he was obedient or not, it doesn't I need to Where does it say no? Ishmael won't be obedient. What do you mean? Where does it say yes, he will? He says I have heard you. So what does God saying? Okay. I heard you. What? I have I have heard you in the Bible. Are you? Yeah. I have heard you in the Bible. You're implying. Let me finish. I'm asking question. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Go ahead. I have heard you in the Bible implies acceptance, does it not? So you can imply, but I cannot imply. No, I'm saying the implication isn't there. You can imply, but it's not there. So you're So I imply, but it's not there, and you're implying, and somehow it's there. Yeah, because he said, "I have heard you. You can't make this up. Darren, you're you're you're stuck right now. You can't make this up, bro. You're actually We're not even done, bro. Look, we're not even done. Darren, you you've never You're stuck right now. You have never felt this before. You're stuck, Liano. I'm a youn I've watched you, Liv, I've watched you go up against people with four times the intellectual capacity and they've always gotten fake. Literally, you guys you hold your own, bro. I am a person who and they've always gotten faked and we're watching you struggle. So, so, so Darren, you could you could play the red error game to try to, you know, give the impression that you're not struggling. No, bro. I'm just reading. Yeah, that's fine. So, Darren, where does it say no? Can you please tell us? It's implied just like you saying. He said where is it? Okay. Okay. Where is Sarah? Your wife is gonna have he is gonna have the covenant. Darren, I already told you Sarah will give birth to the son of the covenant. I agree that he blessed him, right? But Abraham isn't Oh my god. Stop cutting me off. Abraham isn't asking about Abraham isn't asking about a covenant. He's not asking that Ishmamail should have a covenant instead of Isaac. He's asking for Ishmamail to be a god-fearing nation. Correct. He blessed him. He blessed him. Yes. Okay. Well, it didn't say God-fearing. It just said walk walk before me. That's what it means. No, it just says great nation. What does walk before me mean? Well, that was a question. What does that mean? Did God respond and said he would walk before me? So, can one by one, does can we agree that walking before God is to be obedient? Well, let's not let's not add to the text. Let's just tell me what the text says. Is is living before God obedience? Yes. Okay, good. So, Abraham is asking for Ishmael to be an obedient nation, right? Correct. All right, good. Is that accepted or rejected? Uh, it's rejected. All right, show me where? No, it just says Sarah, your wife shall bear you a son. You shall call his name. Y before God. Nice. Good. Good for her. You can't ask a question and then Sure. Sure. Go ahead. Go ahead. This is a shared platform here. I I got you. You're right. You're right. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. So, again, you're implying that God said, Abraham, I've heard you. I will bless him. I have heard you. That means I accepted. I'll make him a great nation. I'll multiply him exceedingly. He shall get 12 pences. I'll make him a great nation. But my covenant will be with Isaac. So, he's making a distinction. But I'll bless him because he's your seed and because you asked me. Yeah. So, yes, I agree. I'm conceding. He ble He literally says I have blessed him. Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. So, now you're saying, well, look, it says the covenant was with Isaac. We have Nice. Good for her. She gave birth to a son. She has He has a covenant. Nice. Wow. How does that end? What does that have to do with Abraham asking Ishmamail or asking God for Ishmamail to be a a god-fearing nation? Does God reject that Ishmamail that that he'll make a people god-fearing? Did he reject Abraham's request to make Ishmael a god-fearing nation? Does God That's not inserted in That's not in the text. You're okay. He says, "Oh, that Ishmamail may live before thee." What does that mean? What does that mean? He said he implied, "No, Isaac, there's going to be a hell. It's going to be Isaac." Okay, that's about the That's about Oh my god. You It's You're stuck. That's about the covenant. That's about the covenant, not obedience. We got Yes. Isaac has the covenant. He's gonna have the Israelites. Where does it say he did? Let me finish. Isaac is gonna have Jacob. He's going to be Israel. There's going to be prophets. There's going to be the Torah. He's gonna have the prophets through him. Good. That's true for Isaac. Agree. Now, when Abraham asks that Ishmamail, okay, is going to be God-fearing, does God reject that Ishmamail will be a God-fearing nation or does he accept that Ishmael will be a God-fearing nation? I I don't see where God-fearing nation is even involved. It doesn't say that. It says, "Oh, that oh that Ishmael may live before thee." Yeah, but what does it have to do with God-fearing? Because that's obedience, is it not? Show me. Read it. Where does it say in the text? Living before thee. You already agreed it's obedience. That No, that was just a question. Yeah. Is the question that he'll be answered that? No. Yo. Yo. Yo, Darren, this ain't a good look, bro. Is the question is that he'll be giving nothing but literature. You're not Is the So is the question that he'll be obedient, bro. The question is that oh that Ishmael may live. May May he be the son that lives before you? No. No, that's not what it says. That's what he That's what he said. Doesn't say that. It says, "Oh, that may live." Yo, you're you're you're actually you're actually trapped. Oh, that Ishmael may live before thee. What does that mean? You can't be kidding me. Do you really believe I'm trapped here? You're so You're so deep in the gutter right now. You can't come out. Oh, that Oh, that Ishmael may live before thee. What does that mean? You're scrambling, bro. You're scrambling. He's not there. You know, you can't prove. Look, he's not You're not Yeah. Yeah. He's not He's He's not even engaging anymore. Hold on, bro. Hey, look. Look. We get up to this point. Come on. Come on. Stop. Stop belting me, Leiano. Stop. Stop cooking me. I I get it. I know. Why are you cooking? What are you cooking? Darren, listen to me. Oh, that Ishmael may live before these. You're trying to make a point. I Why are you not answering? I am. You're implying something. It's not there. Okay. I We're not talking about that. We're talking. Oh, that Ishmael may live before God-fearing nation. Yeah. Oh, that Ishmael may live before. You keep You see, you keep cutting me like Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm jumping. Oh, that Ishmael may live before thee. What does that mean? Yeah. He wanted what was going to happen to Isaac to happen to his son that he that that he already has. What is what is what does that live before thee mean? To live before you obey your word, your commandments, your statutes. There you go, my brother. Show me where he did that. There you go, my brother. All right. Wait, wait. Did he do it? Let me let me finish. We're going to we're going to get to that. That's the whole crux of the conversation. All right. So, Abraham, let's just confirm. Abraham is asking God to make Ishmael a nation that worships him and is obedient. Correct? That's not what it says. Oh my, bro. Bro, you're not real. You just said that's what it says. No, I said he asked. Oh my god. For Ishmail actually received. Yo, Darren, did you say that walking before God means being obedient to him? So he was asking, okay, let me let me clarify it like this. Let me just so I don't have to repeat myself. Abraham was asking for the blessing to be upon the son he had already had. Nope. God said he's going to make he's going to come the new covenant through Isaac. That's not what the text says. He says, Abraham, I've heard you though. That's not what the text says. Abraham doesn't say, "Oh, make the make Ishmael the child of the covenant." Abraham says, "Okay, Abraham says make him obedient." He doesn't say, "Choose him instead of Isaac." He says, "Make him obedient." Does God make Ishma obedient? Yes or no? I He No, he didn't. That's not what he said. Well, he he God rejected Abraham's request. No, he blessed him because Abraham asked. Did he reject Ishmamail being obedient or accept? No, he rejected Ishmael and sent him and Hagar off I'm not asking about the covenant, dude. Did he reject Abraham or Ishmamail being obedient? It doesn't say. You're implying it. Okay, it does say because it says, so you're saying all of his descendants were obedient. Let me let me finish. It does say where as for Ishmamail, God speaking. Ask for Ishmail. I heard you to ask me about Ishmail. I have heard thee. Okay, which means I have accepted. Right. Keep going. Why did he say I will make Oh my god. Does he accept or not? No. All right. He rejects. He did not accept the proposal. Did he reject? Yes. Show me where he reject. Okay, I'm going to read it again. Let's read it again, Chad. All right. Then God said, okay, let's read it from verse 18. Then Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael may live before you." Then God said, "What? What did he say right after that? Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him." What does that mean? It means Isaac will have the Okay. So, what we agree is have the covenant. Orthodox, what was he responding to? A question. Correct. No, he responds to the question later when he says, "I have heard thee." Oh, no. He answers the question later. But he responds with what he said next. Answer. Answers and response are two different words. Now, bro, he literally says, "I already, bro, you're I ain't going to lie. You're Hey, Darren. I ain't going to lie, bro. It's okay if you don't know the answer, bro. I ain't going to lie. You I'm cooking. What you mean? You You could go study it. Come back to me, bro. I'm cooking. But you know what I'm saying? You're not you're not really answering. I'm cooking right now. What do you mean? You're you're you're only right now. Yeah. I'm going to give it to your cooking, but you're cooking yourself. That's what you're doing. So yeah, you're Hey, Darren, you're in the pot. You're in the pot right now. Hey, let me ask you a question. How many people you got over there watching you getting cooked? Nobody. Cuz I'm not getting cooked. You getting cooked. You getting baked, man. Hey, look. Let me tell you something. Nobody watching me get caught. Let me tell you something. I'm going to tell you right now. You're making You're making your own reality. Let me let me speak. You know, you cannot win this argument without presupposing. Darren, I have not presupposed anything. You're the only one. You're the only one who presupposed that God I'm just reading. Okay. Did God reject Abraham's prayer? Yeah, he Yes. All right. Show me where it says that. It literally says it right here. Would you It says it question. It says Sarah. Nope. It says, "Sarah will bear you a son and and his name will be Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him." Cool. Be an everlasting covenant, right? Yep. Cool. Now, we have the covenant with Isaac. He got Sarah out of the way. Now, he responds to Abraham's prayer and he said, "Ask for Ishmamail. I have heard you. I have accepted." So now, did he accept Abraham's prayer or not? Not the full prayer. Not the full prayer. No. So, which part did he accept? Which part? He asked him because Abraham asked him and he was a child. Wait, wait, wait. Which part? Which part did he accept? Do you know why? No. No. Which part did he accept? What do you mean? He said, "I'll make him a great I'll bless him." He told you. He gave you five points. No. No. You said part of the prayer. Which part of may he live before thee? Did he accept? That was implying that that son would be the one to live before God all the days of his life. Yeah. So, did he accept that or no? No. All right. Isaac, I'm going to he remember you got to understand something. So he rejected so he rejected Ishmamail being a god-fearing nation. Let me ask you a question, Leiano. Yeah, you're you're lawm Quran. Okay. Before the Quran from the time of Isaac, what law did they have? He didn't receive a law. All right. So you So then he Okay. Well, there you go. There was no law for them to observe because remember he told Moses during the day what are you talking about? He said if you keep my covenant and he said then you will be unto me a special treasure which is above all people for all of the watch watch this ladies and gents. What law did Isaac receive? What do you mean? What law did Isaac receive? That came through Abraham. No institutes. What law did Isaac himself receive? They walked. Oh shoot. Hold on. Hold on. Live visibility restricted. Hold on, guys. No, answer that question before I got Hey, it says to disconnect you, bro. Okay. Okay. Yeah, you're you're done. Hey, let's let's No, let's get back in. We're going to get back in. I just got to disconnect you and bring you back up. All right. All right. It says live visibility. Uh what is that? What is that? You you've seen that before. What is it, bro? What is it? What do you mean? I don't I don't know what you're talking about. It says visibility restricted. Disconnect from Orthodox Muslim. What does that mean? I don't know. We just got probably got recorded or something. Bro, he's baked. Oh man, he's baked. He's baked, man. Oh my god. He's actually B. Oh, he's back. All right, let's All right, so Darren back. You said you said Ishmail. Can you hear me? Hold on. Let me take a screenshot of this. Hold on, you guys. Can you hear me? Live contains things that may find uh uncomfortable. It's fine, bro. Your your people reported me, bro. I'm cooking too much. They they had to shut me down. Why you doing that, bro? Like, for real. Y'all messing up the whole situation. Yo, but but Darren, just quickly here, cuz we've been going out of I got you. I got you. So, so listen. Right. You said Ishmamail himself never received the law. Correct. Right. Did Isaac himself receive a law? Yeah. Body bag. What do you mean? What? Do you know what it is? What law? What law did Isaac himself receive? It's the Abrahamic covenant. Do you know what that is? No. Law. Well, okay. Well, no. Okay. We're talking about law. The law of Moses. But I'm going to ask you a question. That was given to Listen. Wait, wait, wait. What is the Abrahamic Isaac? What is it? What? What is the Abrahamic covenant? The circumcision. No. Yeah, that's what it says. That was a sign of the covenant. That was that was the covenant. You know what? Let me play. We read it earlier. It says this. It says Abrahamic covenant that they operated by circumcision. We read it earlier. Yeah. You want to read it? No. Abraham believed God. Therefore, what you want to you want to read it, dude? Please. No, let's read it. Can you let me Can you stop waffling and scrambling? No. Let's read it. Go ahead. Read it. Read it. Right. Did we read earlier, Darren? This is my covenant with you that you will be circumcised. Right. Correct. That's a sign of No, no, no, no, no. That it says it later. It says, "This is my covenant that you will be circumcised." Right. Let's pull it up, guys. Yeah. Pull it up. What verse was that? That was verse what? Nine. You read it. You have it in front of you, not me. But read it. Read it like you read. What what was the covenant? I'm going to put on the screen family. Watch this. Okay. So, it says, "As for Okay, it says, "And God said to Abraham, as for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants, after you. This is my covenant which you shall keep between me and you and your descendants. After you, every male child among you shall be circumcised, and you shall be circumcised. And it shall be what, bro? And it shall be what? A sign of the covenant between me and who? I already I already I already told you what you and your descendants after you. Uh, wait. When it says the sign of the covenant between who? Liiano, read it. I just told you. You and your descendants after you. No. Does this Okay. Wait. Wait. Does it say for me and you or me and you and your descendants? I don't you have it in front of you. I can't see it. And this will this sign that he was circumcising his entire house would be a sign of the covenant between him and Abraham. Yeah. But the covenant itself. So what's the covenant? The covenant is that which he established in ver in in Genesis 17. No, no, no. Here in that verse, what is the covenant, bro? That is the covenant. Nope. The covenant. That was the sign of the covenant with that circumcised between parties. Are you brother? Who you trying to fool yourself? It says this is the covenant. You will be circumcised. Right. Correct. So that's the circumcision sign of the covenant. Wait. So circumcision is the covenant, right? Okay. So let me ask you a question. Does anybody who gets circumcised? No. I want an answer, bro. Bro, it says it right here. What are you saying? Okay. Does it say circumcision? Every male child among you shall be circumcised. Okay. Does he say this is the covenant? It Yes. It says this. Watch this. As for you, you shall keep what? My covenant. You and your descendants throughout their generation. Why? Why you not answering, bro? Does he say this is Does he say this is the covenant? So, oh, you know what? I got a question for you. Watch this. No, no, I need I need an answer first. Does he say this is the covenant? This is the Yeah. As for you, you shall keep my covenant. All right. This is my covenant. The circumcision is the covenant. But whose covenant? Abraham's covenant. You sure? Brother, what are we doing, bro? No. What does it say? Does that say Abraham's covenant or my covenant? Yeah. My God's covenant with Abraham. Yeah. Correct. Right. So, covenant is circumcision, right? Between me, you, and your descendants after you. So, let me ask you a question. No, no, no. I need I need an I need an answer. My gosh. Is Is the covenant circumcision? The the sign of the covenant is circumcision. Yes. No. Nope. Not just a sign. It is the covenant. Okay. What you Okay. It's the covenant. Now what? Good. Okay. Where you going? Where you going now? So much. So then when you ask me what is the Abrahamic covenant, the text says tells us circumcision and you also made the point about uh well you know ish Ishmael never received the law. It was only later. Well let me get to this first. Wait wait wait wait before you jump. Let me let me ask you finish bro. Oh dude. Okay. Go ahead. Let me finish. You made the point earlier. Okay. that well look Abraham uh uh uh and read verse 22 to 27 by the way after this you said uh Abra or what's it called Ishmamail never received the law therefore you know this uh you know he can't have a prophet through him or whatever he can't be a great nation but guess what Isaac never received the law himself it was only his later descendant correct you put your body back let me ask you a question okay so what covenant what covenant was this covenant then that he made with with Jacob or Isaac This was a a a specific covenant, a later covenant. Okay. What What covenant was that? No. What covenant was that? What do you mean what covenant? I don't know what it literally says Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants. What covenant was that? Yo, I don't know what you're asking me. I'm asking you. You said that circumcision. You said the circumcision was the covenant of Abraham, right? Yeah. So, what's the covenant that he made with Jacob? And Isaac? Yeah. So, there's a covenant with Abraham, right? And a covenant with Isaac. Is that correct? And what was that? What covenant was that? I don't know what you're asking. I don't know what that means, bro. You just said the covenant that he made with Abraham was circumcision. Then what was the covenant that he made with Isaac and Jacob? Yeah. So, I don't know what you're asking me. Can I finish? You keep cutting me off. Go ahead. Okay, good. Before we talk about what this covenant is and what that covenant is, can we agree there's two distinct covenants? No, cuz I don't even know what covenant this is. If you less, you can tell me. Okay. Now, did you agree earlier that Stop running, Liviana? What? What? What covenant is this? Hey, brother. What's up with you, bro? Bro, I'm asking you a simple question. You're not answering my question. I'm I'm responding to you because I don't know what you're asking me. I'm asking you. You said the covenant of Abraham was circumc What? What? Bro, you were both brother. I'm talking. I'm We're both This is a shared live, my guy. All right. Yeah. So, let me let me answer you. Okay. Go ahead. All right. So he promises that under a under under Abraham there will be a more specific covenant through Isaac where he will have he will give birth to kings to peoples prophethood and so on and so forth. Is there if you're asking me is there a specific name for the covenant? No doesn't say in the text but I'm telling you they can't be the same covenant you already conceded earlier. Why? Because Abraham is not a descendant of Isaac, is he? That's what you said, bro. I didn't say that. Is Abraham Okay, check this out. Let me get Let me I'm going to help you out real quick. No, no, no. Don't help me out. Is Abraham the descendant of Isaac? Question. No, let me get my back question. Is I'm going to help you out. No, no, I don't. Brother, just answer. Is Abraham, you need help, bro? I'm here. That's why you not Why are you not answering the question? Cuz I'm here, bro. Hey, I'm here. All right. Stay there. Stay there. Is Abraham the descendant of Isaac? No. So he's not included in what God established with Isaac, right? It's what he he established it through Isaac. In what? No. He says, just listen. I will establish my covenant with Isaac. Yes. Yes. Right. Is Abraham included? Let me Right. And Abraham is not a descendant of Isaac and he's not Isaac. It's not a separate covenant. Is Abraham included in what God established with Isaac? It's not a separate covenant. You want me to presuppose that? Darren, Darren, you need to answer. Is Abraham included in what God established with Isaac? It's the Abrahamic covenant that went through. You're not You're not You're not answering, bro. cuz you're you're asking me questions that don't make any sense. They make they make sense. Is is Abraham included in what God established with Isaac? It's Abraham's covenant. He's not answering the question. It's Abraham's covenant that went through his descendants. Is Abraham included in what God established with Isaac? Abraham's included in what God established with Abraham. You're not okay. My turn. My turn. You're not You're not You're not answer. You're not stuck. You don't want me to talk cuz you stuck. You're not You're not answering the question. You're not answering the question, man. No, you need you need to answer the question. Are you stuck? Are you stuck? What covenant did God give to Isaac? He blessed Isaac and he gave him prophethood and he gave him a great lineage. Unless brother, what what was the sign of the covenant? It doesn't mention a sign of the covenant. Okay. So, it's not a covenant. Who said it's not a covenant? Well, I'm saying God blessed Abraham through Isaac. The covenant was through from Abraham and God told Abraham what he was going to do through Isaac. Darren, you see how I you see how I answer your questions directly and you don't answer mine. So, Darren, let's try it again. I don't think we're going to get anywhere, bro. All right. All right. So, just answer the I answer all your questions. You never answer mine. Okay. God said to Isaac, I will establish my covenant with him. Correct. Okay. Is Abraham included in what God established with Isaac? It's the same covenant. I didn't ask that. Is he included in what God established with Isaac? It's the same covenant. I didn't ask that. Is he included in what God established with Isaac? Yes, because it's his covenant. Wait, Abraham is a It is a It is Abraham's covenant descendant. No, God made a covenant with Abraham, but it went with Isaac. If All right, let you know, you can't be that disingenuous. God established. You are not that disingenuous, bro. It's very simple. and his descendants. It went from Abraham through Isaac through Jacob to his descendants. Okay. Okay, brother. It is not I'm and and and you're talking about what I'm not asking you. All right. Well, because you're asking questions that are not relevant and make no sense. No, it's because they bake you, bro. It does not. What do you mean? Are you kidding me? That's what's going on right now. Liviano, you really think you cooking? Bro, you're baked. You're not just cooked. You've been You've been on this You've been on the grill. Be honest with me. Hey, Chad, be honest with me, Chad. Be honest. Be honest with him. Brother can't even tell me what the the covenant is. I just told you what it is. You told me what the covenant that God made with Isaac is. Yes. What? God blessed Isaac that through his le through his lineage, he will have prophets, kings, and men and many peoples. Did it happen? God, let me finish. God specifically chose Isaac, right, for a covenant. But there is a covenant that Abraham is a part of and there's a covenant that Isaac has and Abraham is not a part of that. Right? Ah, I think so. Let me ask you a question. So, let me let me finish. Go ahead. Let me ask you a question. So, this is the question. Now God tells Isaac, I will establish my covenant with Isaac and his descendants. So in order to be a part of this, you must be either Isaac or Isaac's descendants. Do you agree? Yeah. Are they a part of two covenants then? Okay. Is a one second. Is Abraham Isaac or the descendant of Isaac? Wait, say that again. Is Abraham Isaac or the descendant of Isaac? No. Thank you. So he's not part of Isaac's covenant, right? So okay, I agree. So what? All right. Let me ask Watch this chat. Hey, watch this. Let me ask you a question. Let me let me ask you a question. Don't run. So after all of that, man, answer this last question. Don't run. There you go. Are the descendants of Isaac, Watch this, chat. Watch this. Are the descendants of Isaac under two co everlasting covenants? The descendants of Isaac Are the descendants of Isaac under two everlasting covenants? one with Abraham and one with Isaac. Beautiful question. I'm going to answer you now. Yes, the descendants of Isaac are under the circumcision covenant and under Isaac's specific covenant. Yes. Now he has nothing to say. Look, can't make this up. You can't make this up. Hey, he's don't know what to say anymore. Hey, big Hey, hold on. Hold on. Time out. Time out. For real. For real. For real. For real. Hey, big ups to you, bro. I really appreciate you for getting in the box for me today. For real. Hey, man. Yeah, I'm I really appreciate connecting with you, bro. I really appreciate connecting with you. Everybody in the chat, man, show Leo some love, man. It's It's all love over here. I know we we it gets fun. It gets hot and heavy, but at the end of the day, man, you know, it's all love. And I appreciate you for taking the time, bro. I I appreciate you as well, bro. Hey, listen. You know, we could we could get jumpy. We could get passionate at the end of the day, bro. Listen, you're not my brother in in uh in faith, but you're my brother in humanity. Come on, man. I give I give you humanly respect. I hope I hope that God guides you one day and you know, you leave man worship. I'll be a weapon for Islam. You know, if I convert, I'd be a weapon over there. You You would be, brother. You You'd be You'd be great. You'd be great, bro. But same Hey, same vice versa. If you ever came to the Lord, it's over. We We taking over. I don't know about that one, bro. But yeah. Hey, man. I I appreciate the spirit. Much love to you, bro. Thank you so much, bro. Have a good one. Much love. Have a good one, man. All right, man. You too. All right, y'all. Yeah, show my man Li some love, you guys. That was a good combo. Uh, let me see. How do we disconnect this, Liz? I don't know how. Oh, I got you. I got you. I got you. All right. All right, guys. Hey, man. We had a we had a good conversation, man. At the end, he conceded his two covenants. At the end, he ended up conceding. It was two covenants. He was stuck with uh uh oh that Ishmael may live before thee, meaning obedience. He didn't know how to answer that. He said there's three gods. Remember? I don't know. I don't know if you guys were there when he said there's three gods. You guys got that one? For the people who are messaging me saying, "Look, the Hebrew doesn't say but." Yeah, the Hebrew does say but. There's a difference of opinion. Some say and some say but, but both are correct and that doesn't change like there's no point in arguing that. It doesn't change the argument, right? So, I I I'm I'm aware of that. You didn't have to tell me, but um it it it doesn't make any difference my argument. Whether it says but or and, they're both grammatically correct, so there's no point of arguing them. Yeah. Yeah. It's going on YouTube for show. For sure. For sure, man. Hey, let me let me get my my guy Chad up here, man. Hey, my brother Chad, man. Come up. Hey, Wayne. Yo. Hey. What's going on, man? What's going on, buddy? You saw this guy get a whole lot of yo. Yo, Graham was getting cooked, bro. Hey, man. It's okay, man. Yo, what up, bro? He went, bro, he was go, bro. He he kept like circling around, bro. He kept like saying one thing and then contradicting it like what? Hey, bro. The whole Bro, tell me not, bro. Everybody heard it. The whole time he was saying it's a diff it's it's he's included in the covenant. And then at the end, he said, "No, no, it's a different covenant." And then he he wants to ask you a different question like bro what? Yeah. I mean at the end he had to concede right because is Abraham included with the with what God established with Isaac. He's not right. So Abraham is included in something. Isaac is included in another thing. They must be different. It must be 100% because we have the universal covenant with Abraham through is for all nations and Isaac's covenant which is to to his descendants which is the Bible, you know, right? Exactly. Anyways, Chad, I'm going to bring you down now. Thank you for coming. Oh man, that was a good conversation, man. Listen, you know, we could we could banter back and forth and stuff, you know, do the rhetoric, but at the end of the day, guys, Darren is a nice guy. I'm not going to lie. Darren is a cool guy, man. He's very humble, you know what I mean? You know, um, so I I I respect him a lot for it. I respect him a lot for it, man. You know, uh, make dua for Allah to guide him, you know. He, like he said, he'd be he'd be he'd be a machine if he if he was a Muslim, right? So, you know what I'm saying? What was his chat like, guys? Were they blaspheming in his chat? Cuz I didn't see any blasphemy in our chat. Zero. Oh, were they blaspheming in his chat? Yeah. It shows you how different we are, bro. Maybe there was Muslims blaspheing, but I didn't see any I didn't see any Muslims blaspheing in my chat at least. How many people did he have in his chat? They were insulting me. Of course, bro. What do you guys expect? Obviously, they're going to support their boy, right? Of course they're going to insult me. That's obvious. They said he cooked you. What do you guys expect? Of course they're going to say that, right? But we all know what took place today. Liv. No, Liv was joking. It's just a a joke we have. You know, when I enter her lives, I say, "Liv, you're getting baked." She started doing it to me, too. King Sil is insulting me. King Silv, you're I will You're like You're a You're a worm, dude. You're a cupcake. I'd stomp on you. Somebody tell King Sil to come up here, take off his pink skirt. Somebody tell King Sil to come up here, take off his pink panties and his bra. There's 1,400 people in here. Sil, come on. Let's do it, man. Let's Let's talk about whether Muhammad comes from the lineage of Islam, man. Let's do it. or the lineage of uh isam I ran from him. That's so funny. He doesn't even believe himself. You know, some people they they make up stuff and they don't even believe themselves. They're they're so not convincing that you could tell like he knows he's bullshitting. You know what I'm saying? Sil, come here now. Right here if I'm running. Let's do it, man. Let's talk. At least be convincing. You know, show some brother, you're it's so sad that you speak three languages and you sound like a fab in all of them. You can't speak English properly. You can't speak Arabic properly. You can't speak Kaldian properly. You're a little [ __ ] on the floor, dude. Like, how do you not speak a language, bro? Brother, how do you not speak a language fluently? Bro, have you guys actually ever met somebody who don't have a language? Bro, bro, the guy doesn't have a language, bro. He It's like a person with no passport. He has no language, bro. How does he think in his head? Like, he has he has no language, bro. What a m Oh man, what a scheme, bro. You committed a sherk. Actually, uh, you committed Liano. You committed a sherk. You committed a sherk, Liano. You committed a sherk. If you believe that Allah and Muhammad sit on the throne, you committed shark. You committed a sherk. Like, shut your ass up, man. Shut your dumb ass up, man. [Applause] It feels nice to dunk, man. Yo, my brother, what's going on? Not much, bro. Darren, bro, do you see Darren [ __ ] himself, bro? You know, you know, I actually like Darren as well, bro. Like, that's the thing. I actually like Darren even when I was him. I don't know if you saw me like my conversation with him, but I was explaining to him um the corruption in the New Testament and he was completely clueless on the long ending of Mark, like the prick adultery, like the changes in Luke and he was like, "Bro, if what you're saying is true, then I don't have an issue with it." Did you see that or not? I saw it, but he he posted a clip and and I was thinking about Yeah, he posted a clip and then with No, no, no. He he posted a clip with the music of him asking me to read a verse saying uh Jesus uh what's it called? Knows all things. He just cut out the response. And I told him I messaged him. I was like, "Why'd you cut out the response, bro? You should have let me respond to it." I responded with Daniel. I said, "Bro, like the same thing said of old the prophets in the old law that they're set to know all things." But he cut it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David is said to know all things. Yeah. Exactly. But yeah, bro. You were cooking him on the covenants, bro. He had no clue. Earlier earlier he brought up the word of Allah. He got baked. He brought up uh the Quran being eternal. He got baked. He conceded. He conceded that there are three gods. He got baked on Jesus being God in the New Testament. Bro, he was getting everything he was bringing up. He got grilled, fried like a bro, he got shaken like a milkshake. Bro, look, you know what it is. I think with Darren like honestly I think his company is what influences him to like have these like really bad beliefs because like I think by himself if he was to like get away from them and reflect and like actually do look into stuff himself because I know he's busy he works he doesn't actually look at these things in too much detail from what I've heard but like the people around him like King Seal of Jay like these guys are all like complete idiots like complete idiots and they're influencing him with all these stupid arguments so he thinks like like there's something there but there isn't. Yeah, that's just my opinion. No, I agree. I agree, bro. He's He's just a family guy, bro. He's a Hawaii guy. He has a wife. He hasn't Hey, bro. Nothing wrong with that, bro. I want to be a family guy, too. No, I'm saying good. I'm saying it's good, but it's just that he has bad company. He has logic. Um, you know, and we all know who Logic is married to. Chat, if you know, you know. Hey, Red Skirt. Red skirt. Red skirt is probably watching. If you know, you know. Hey, Red Skirt, where you at? Red skirt, you know. You can hit me up anytime, man. Hey, uh, Liiano, what's up? What's going on with King Silv? He's He's on the other live. I think he was He's just chatting [ __ ] about genealogies. He's trying to say like there's a big gap between genealogology. Bro, he's such a low He's so low. King Sil is actually so low tier. Let me tell can I guys can I tell you guys something? Silv used to call bro Silv on the private calls, right? Sil on the private calls is so mudda, bro. He is so disciplined. He doesn't raise his voice. He only puts this character on like the Sam Shimone character on Tik Tok. Sil is a mskine, bro. He's one of those like society rejects that drives an Uber. He's Bro, let me tell you something about Silv, bro. He doesn't speak a first language, dude. Who takes that, bro? He doesn't have a first language. How How you going, bro? How you going to debate a guy who don't have a first language, bro? Yo, Sil has to shave his unibrow every 3 days. Sil, you're you're a joke. You're a bro. Silv, you're a little Silv, you're a cupcake. Silv, I put you under my foot. No. Oh, but did you see I don't know if you saw when I first met him on Darren's live, I asked him, "Are you Catholic?" Like, "What what kind of Christian are you?" He's like, "I'm Catholic." I'm like, "Okay." I said, "Are you a tomist or a Scottist?" And he's like, he's like, "I'm a tomist." He said, "Tois." And then I said, "All right." Yeah. And then I said, "Okay, so you follow Aquinus?" Yeah. He's like, "Yeah, somebody said somebody said this is backbiting. Fear Allah. You can't backbite." Brother, who cares about this in the comments? He doesn't. It's for everybody. First of all, backbiting kufur is not a thing. All right. Second of all, he's not just a kafir. He is he is a caller to the hellfire, bro. He is he is with he's a caller to the hellfire. He's literally someone backing. He's doing dawa to the hellfire. Like what do you mean backbiting? Yeah. I feel like some people on TikTok are actually potatoes, bro. Like if they saw Im Ahmed, if they saw anyone from the Salaf, like being like, "Oh, don't take from that person over there, they'd be like, "Oh, you're backbiting." Yeah. And and by the way, you could even backbite Muslims in some cases if they're like deviants, need to warn about them, you could do that. There's some there's some exceptions by the way. But anyways, I I don't Bro, I would I will tell Silv his 5 foot five self. I will tell Silv, Silv, I spit on you. You're my You're a subhuman to me. Silv, you are nothing to me. If you stood beside me, you would shake like a bro. Who is Sil, bro? Who is Sil? What? Who are you, brother? You are nothing. You are you are under me, bro. What are you talking about? Bro, he also ducked the LPT as well, bro. He didn't want to debate me. Bro, come on. Of course he's Bro, he doesn't know, bro. Silv has He literally said philosophy is not my field, guys. I'm not a philosopher. Nothing. Nothing is his field. Wait, somebody said let's not act like Libya is tall. Guys, I'm 5 foot 10. I'm average. I'm a 5 foot 10 is above average, bro. Bro, 5 foot 10 is above average. What? Bro, bro, what's this height inflation, bro? Average height for a man is like 5'9, bro. If you're 5'10, you're I'm 5'10, bro. I'm I'm I'm average, bro. I'm average. But Sil, I I got five I got five whole inches on Sil, bro. Bro, chill, bro. What the [ __ ] Hey, take take that how you want to take that, bro. Interpret it the way you want, bro. Be honest. Hey, interpret it the way you want. But hey, I'm telling you, bro. Sil is a nothing. These are nothing, bro. These are nothing. I'm [ __ ] bro. That's why he he'd never join. He just wants to yap on Darren's life. Like, that's the issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey guys, listen. Go go go tell tell him to come here. We're waiting for him. Yah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell him to come here. Actually, I I'll entertain it. No problem. I'll respect the one v one even. I'll literally respect the one v one, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Just go go bring him here. I'm waiting right here. Let's do it. Let's talk. In the meantime, Lana, you said um Chisma, you wanted the it's not met analysis stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to start reading into that. Also, I'm going to Yo, can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, I can hear one second. I'm just connecting to the car. Hold on. Yeah, you're good. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to start reading into that stuff, bro. Yeah. No. Um I I sent the thing on the server. Join it so you so you can join so I can send you the link. Where did you send it to me? On the chat. I think I sent it to you. You know the chat with the boys on Twitter? Oh, send it again, bro. I barely check it. I barely check that group all the time. All right, give me a sec. Listen, we know we know Sil is grifting, bro. We know Silva ain't going to come. It's It's a logical impossibility. It's a metaphysical impossibility. It's a P and not P. Actually, actually, Lana, I'll send it on the thing with me and Dean. You know the Discord one we have with me, you and Dean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [Music] Are you guys telling Self to come? We're all waiting for him. We're all waiting for him. What's he saying? Is there a fight? Yeah, of course he's not going to. He's a Bro, he's a little You know what word I want to use? I just don't want to use it, bro. He's He's a He's a pussell weasel. Pussellius, but whatever that word. That's what he is, bro. I guess who did I learn that one from? Hey, man. That That's what he is, bro. He's a Bro, he's terrified, bro. I mogged that guy. He's terrible. If did Muhammad commit shik by sitting with Allah on his right hand. Did he commit a shik? Did he commit a shik? Did he commit a shik? Let's talk about Muhammad and his shik. Hey, if you if you guys want to see my first debate with with with Sil when he was a complete Babylonian statue, it's on my YouTube channel. We we did we did a a debate two on two. Me and Chad and Silv and um and what's his face? Albi, right? Go check it. It's on my YouTube. I thought his name was Abel. Sil Sil was shook like a statue. He didn't move, talk. He looked like he looked like one of those statues, bro. He he didn't say a statue from Daniel 2, bro. It was a statue from Daniel. He was the statue. Go check it out. Yeah, like a shark. You want He wants to co-host with me. No, come on. Come on my live, bro. Wait, who's co-hosting? S. S. He wants to co-host. No, just come up, cuz. You know what? I'll I'll I'll actually I'll co-host him. Let me Let me go eat right quick. Dinner and I'll co-host him. Okay. Sure. Let's go. Tell Yeah. Tell him yes. Let's go. Bring me up. Bring me up when you come up. I want to be there. All right. Tell him yes. Let's co-host. Oh, he's coming. Okay, good. If he's coming, he's coming, bro. He's coming. He's coming. Like a shark. Like a shark. Bro, you know what it is? Ziano is like um cuz he speaks Arabic. They think like that makes him qualified. Like he's one of those ex-Muslim, oh I speak Arabic, I know what I'm talking about types. Even though he has no idea what he's talking about, bro. Yeah, I mug that kid, bro. Where is he? That truck is so overused, bro. Is he coming or what's going on? Cuz I got to pray. I got to eat. Does it take that long to join? He's not an ex-Muslim, by the way. He's He's Calaldian. He's Calaldian. He said co-hosting, bro. Just get him to come up here, bro. It's not that deep. No, I don't have a problem. We'll co-host. No problem. He's saying co-host cuz he thinks I'm going to reject. So, it's a way for him to run without looking bad. But, I'm going to co-host. No problem. Okay, let's let's All right, I'm just All right, I'm going to go eat. I'm going to start up my live up and he better be there to co-host. All right, I'll see you guys I'll see you guys in like 30. All right, peace out.