Chris Hamilton, welcome to For the Gospel. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. I'm grateful for your ministry and this series that we're doing on parenting and family. massive topic that a lot of Christian families are eager to not only know the what, but the how.
Where do you serve? What do you do? What's kind of your ministry background? Yeah, I go to Grace Community Church.
I'm an elder there, and in that role, I've been teaching parenting for about 15, 20 years now. In the rest of my life, I do forensic accounting and run an accounting firm, and all that means is I am accustomed to testifying in court and preparing for court. So I'm used to being grilled and tested on what do I know. All right.
So this will feel a little bit like deposition or maybe an interrogation. Very comfortable. Awesome.
Used to it. Here's the uncomfortable part. So you won't like this, but I want to say it.
Your ministry, the reason I wanted to have you on, your ministry to my life, my wife, our children, indirectly from your teaching on parenting has been tremendous. You're balanced. You're winsome.
You're clear. You're biblical. you're practical, but you don't overdo it. I mean, there's a lot to it. And I want to briefly share kind of how I got familiar with your teaching on this particular topic in your ministry and why then I'm going, I've got to have Chris on.
He's got to do something on this for people because it would really bless a whole new generation of parents. I got saved and came to an understanding of the importance of the Bible. And I think that's what I'm going to do.
of the true gospel and sound doctrine and so of course like a lot of people go down the rabbit hole and I want to know everything that I used to believe that was false and now I want to know what's true so there's doctrine and there's theology but then moving into what I would just say is is like the practical aspects of life. How do we raise kids? What's our marriage supposed to be like?
All these things. And so I get a book called The Fulfilled Family by John MacArthur. Great book. We get the audio CDs and we still had an older car that you could put CDs into.
Yeah, exactly. And so we're listening. And my wife and I, it really revolutionizes our marriage and again, theological but also practical.
And then she gets pregnant and we're thinking, okay, we're going to apply all these truths. And... And like many well-meaning parents, we get really into classes and classes are good.
You teach classes. I've been to your classes. They're excellent. And, but we got into a lot of fads and we started getting pulled into formulas and okay. So, you know, if we do this and believe this, well, now we're.
Trusting in Christ and the true gospel. Oh, if we believe this and do this and have a systematic theology and we understand these categories, well then now we're on the track here and then, oh, if we do these things, our kids, this is how you raise godly kids and this is how everything turns out. good.
Oh, you could have a stable, perfect home if you just do these things. So we get really into that. And then along the way, I would call it the conviction of the Holy Spirit, where when you're studying the Word of God and then you start to hear things, you go, that sounds...
catchy, but I don't know if that's biblical or that seems like an overreach. And then I get exposed to you. I'm at Shepherd's Conference and you do these breakouts on this subject.
And I hear you teach for the first time and I go, okay, that is proper. It's biblical. He's not overdoing it.
There's no formulas. There's no kind of nightmarish applications that make me come off crazy, just to put it lightly. and it doesn't sound formulaic.
It just sounds biblical. And so you're a blessing to my life. I know there's a ton of parents who think the same thing, but you in a very real way helped course correct.
You didn't know it, but it was course correcting me from an over swing into a lot of parenting fads that was leaning into legalism and formulas and guaranteeing this would be how your kids will turn out if. And so thank you for your ministry. And.
In that, why do you do what you do? And is that something common, like the story I just shared, that you're seeing a lot in maybe Bible churches or conservative theological camps? Heavy front load on all that. But what's your heart for parenting and that whole issue? It's very kind of you.
Thank you. Our role in all of this is to speak the Word of God. And that's what drives my approach.
No one should really care what Chris Hamilton has to say. Unless I'm conveying what the Bible has to say. When I was first asked to teach parenting, I was involved in high school ministry at my church.
And so I was interacting with a lot of parents. And at the same time, I was in the midst of the battle. I have three daughters and they were anywhere from 10 on into the teen years.
And so my foundation for all of this was I desperately needed it myself. I was on the same hunt that you were on. And I was very frustrated with parenting books, parenting materials, because I had the same sense you did, that they wanted to present a methodology. This is how you do it. And that's the shortcut.
That's a shortcut without developing the foundation of what does the Bible say? What's the doctrinal basis or the principle, if you will, supporting that methodology? And what gets really confusing for parents, and it was for me for a while, is you see this methodology and they throw a Bible verse in there.
Yeah. And anytime you take a methodology, tie it to a Bible verse, guys like you and I are like, okay. Yeah, I'm leaving it in. That's good.
I want to obey God. I want to obey the Bible. If God says it, I do it.
And after a lot of study, it became apparent to me, and I say a lot of study because I'm not the sharpest tool, but it became apparent to me that biblical principles, there's a few. The application of those principles vary. Not only do they vary from family to family, but they vary child to child. And I saw this in my own house.
I have three daughters. They both came from the same mom and dad and they couldn't be more different. And what motivates them, what they find interesting, their form of sin, how they sin and how they view sin and how they responded to discipline. So all of that is what drove me to be very, very, very careful that when I got in front of a group of people to talk about parenting, I didn't want anybody walking away confused about what was biblical principle. and what was opinion, which is really what methodology is.
The Bible has some things to say about methodology, and I'm sure we'll talk about those today, but by and large, it's principles. That's so helpful. Yeah, in this particular kind of first episode of the series we're doing, I want to talk about the pitfalls of Christian parenting. I feel like that's a great start because it might wash away some of the preconceived notions people come to the table with.
I'll tell you maybe a story that'll freak you out a little bit. One of the challenges that we had faced in sort of that fad-driven world with over-application was about discipline. And we're gonna do an episode on biblical discipline and we're gonna talk about principles for Christian parenting in the next episode.
But we are in this class and they're talking about discipline. And in that kind of phase, maybe this is triggering for some people or whatnot, but baby wise was like the Bible. So that's the book that the guy wrote and it's getting passed around and everyone's like oh if your kid's not in bed by seven I mean you're behind the curve I'm like oh we got to put the kids down at seven then and if you don't put them in the room stick them in the room cry it out shut the door like if you go get them oh that's you know attachment parenting and now it's a child run home so we have all these things and we're talking like three months old five months old two months old and and the fear because the bible is well if I have a child run home it's because I'm allowing these things now I'm not raising my children in the discipline and the admonition of the Lord because I'm the authority they have to obey. And it's like a two-month-old crying for milk.
And so we're like, no, but the child cannot run the home. And my wife always tells this funny story. She said, when I was a babysitter at 16, I said one day, these kids that I was babysitting, the mom always gave them sauce and condiments. She said, one day when I have children, they will never be allowed sauce.
And if you could fast forward the movie montage. our first time in Chick-fil-A, and my kids are dipping in the sauce. And she's like, what have I become?
And we're laughing. We have all these have-dos, and I will not, and I will this. And so you're trying to do your best. And we're in this class, and they approach biblical discipline as they kind of framed it.
And they said, well, you can't have a child run home. And so as soon as you can, you know, sometime between three and six months old, when that infant is on the changing table, and this will freak some people out, we didn't do it. But When that child is on the changing table and they grunt or they wince or arch their back and resist while you're changing the diaper, you take your thumb and your index finger and you pinch their inner thigh and create a pain trigger that lets them know resistance to authority will lead to pain. I was shepherding my wife and my own heart at that point.
We walked out. We were done. And here's why I bring all that up.
There's a Christian culture. Where if you don't do these things like this, and your kids then disobey five years later, eight years later, you know, well, no wonder, Chris, you didn't do the things. You didn't take the class.
You didn't conform. And we're going to train this way and do this, and it becomes... It's a bit of a cult culture, forgive the language, but there's this parenting sort of cult within the church that becomes a culture and people feel very insecure.
So speak to some of these pitfalls. I think there's other extremes. I want you to talk about gentle parenting as well.
On the other side, it's like, you know, we're going to give it to the kid on the changing table. No. But also there's the, well, you know, give them their little circle to express themselves.
And just the child is it. So you have kids throwing fits in the airport. losing their minds and the parents say, we'll just put an eight minute timer and let baby, you know.
I'm going to count to three. Yeah, totally. So speak to the pitfalls.
The floor is yours. Go through each one and just walk us through what to look for. Yeah.
And you named Babywise. That was instrumental in our early parenting. Because there's some good stuff in there.
Yeah, there's truth in all of that stuff. There is truth. And that is ultimately, I love that you named names. That was the trigger when I started having the same reaction that you're having to it.
Saying, this doesn't seem right. This doesn't fit. And in looking at it, I began to see that it is a classic pitfall.
First of all, people love legalism. They love rules. They love lists.
So that they can check off the list and say, I'm a good parent. And like you said, okay, I checked off all the boxes. My kids are going to turn out.
Okay. It's just not in the Bible And looking at that particular material and so much material like it I think one of the common most basic pitfalls is it starts from the premise that as a parent you've been given a child And if you don't do it, right, you're gonna ruin your child totally. Yep, and parenting is Then driven really by fear that if if I don't obey then my child will be bad, however you define these terms, and it's all on me.
And it's directly contrary to what the Bible says. I mean, Ephesians 2.1 is devastating to this philosophy. It's pretty simple.
Everybody knows this verse. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formerly walked, according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air of the Spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. That is a devastating verse because what it means is when that and yet it's a freeing verse that means that beautiful little baby when you bring him or her home they're already ruined they're not you can't do anything to hurt them or make them worse they are as destroyed and wrecked as they can possibly be spiritually yeah okay the bible also says in proverbs 22 15 that foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child So they're dead spiritually and they're blooming fools. That's what God gave you. And so parenting is not a negative process.
Parenting is a positive process. So good. Parenting fundamentally is to get that foolishness out of their heart. Because if you don't, it becomes evident in their life.
The second thing is you want to teach them the gospel. That is a fundamentally positive process. 2 Timothy 3.15, I love this verse. Paul's talking to a young man.
He reminds him that from childhood you have known the sacred writings, the scriptures, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith, which is in Christ Jesus. That is the goal of parenting. And that's the dual purpose of you teach them wisdom and you present the gospel and those go together.
And the wisdom doesn't save them, says that right there. It's the wisdom that leads to faith which will save them. And that leads to the second pitfall in parenting, is parents believe that they can and they must save their children.
And, you know, nobody, there's no higher desire for a parent on this earth than to see their child come to faith in Jesus Christ, for a lot of reasons. And that's good. And, but words matter.
And I always tell parents, that's not the goal of parenting. And it blows their mind, and they're like, wait, wait, wait, what are you saying? And I'm saying, a goal is something you can accomplish.
And you just simply can't accomplish the salvation of your child. Your parents couldn't do it for you. You can't do it for those children who you love more than anybody else on the face of the earth.
If that's the case, then you can't evaluate your parenting based on that. You can't look back and say, I was a good parent. Because my children all profess faith in Jesus Christ.
I can't cover my mouth and point at another set of parents and say they're bad parents because their children didn't come to faith in Jesus Christ. That is a very prevalent pitfall in the church of how we evaluate our... own parenting and how we evaluate other people's parenting.
I think some of the best parenting I've ever seen are parents whose kids have rejected Jesus Christ. It's heartbreaking. You know they they weep over that and yet they parented their child and so that's a pitfall that I try to address when I'm teaching things like discipline that the principles in the in the Bible are universal to all children.
to all people, not just to Christian children. We've talked about that other pitfall of methodology-focused parenting, and we've talked about that every child is different, and I think that's a pitfall. Parents want to do, they find a formula with the first kid.
You have several kids, you know this. What works on child number one might even work on child number two, but then child number three comes along, and it's just a completely different ballgame. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that they're bad children. They're just different.
And so if you focus everything on methodology, on the legalism, on what you were saying, you know, pinch them on the changing table. That's a new one. I hadn't heard that before.
It became quite a thing. It built on itself. I was like, well, you know, are you pinching them on the changing table as early as possible?
Well, by the time they're older, they'll know pain. I'm like, wow, I didn't realize my four month old was that smart. Right, right. But they are that sinful. They totally are.
I heard somebody once say if you could give, if they could, if babies could walk and you could mobilize them all and give them weapons, they'd take over the world. They have the capacity, if you will, because they're sin nature, but they don't have the ability. It's within them, but they can't.
So yeah, that stuff becomes so prevalent on that. I want you to kind of speak wisdom into this as we land the plane on this episode. How should parents then approach books, or even like our situation? You brought up Baby Wise, we talked about that.
You got some truth in these things. The class that we attended, there was plenty of truth. And then there were these red flags.
How do we approach that? Is it just discernment? Do we need to stay close to our pastors? Do we need to stick mostly to biblical teaching and not speak to that challenge we face? My goal in teaching parenting is that we build the footings of doctrine, of what's true.
And then you can pick up a book, even from a secular person, and read parenting, and you're able to sort through the stuff, the chaff, if you will. And there's nuggets in there. Some of the best parenting counsel I ever got, methodology, was from unsaved men.
I used to, when I was a young guy, I ran a... a practice where I would be consulting and I'd get to know my clients and I'd ask them. These are older men. How did you parent your children?
Tell me what worked. Now I have to have the ability to sort through. Oh yeah, I gave them a glass of whiskey when they were 11 years old and we learned how to handle alcohol. No, no, no, no, no. That's okay.
Like next? Next. But you will get wisdom.
And we're told to seek. Wisdom. It's a lifelong pursuit, including parents. And so you build the footings of doctrine, and you think about the purposes of parenting.
We'll be talking later about boys and girls. If you understand what you're trying to produce as men and women, and you think about how the Bible defines biblical men and women, and then start rolling that back to, what are my goals as a parent? That's it. Okay, now how do those goals translate to how I parent day to day and then start sorting through all these ideas people have in the context of those goals and they're biblically based.
So I think solid doctrine, theology, something we're always developing and learning. We never have or we're never done with that. At least I don't feel like I ever will be.
And that's constantly being informed in the church and through and by the Word of God and accountability to others. Older, wiser parents, grandparents who are more than willing to help a young couple soar through this. That's awesome. Such good wisdom.
Thanks for walking us through the pitfalls. In the next video episode we've got, we'll do principles for biblical parenting and just let you go off. I can't wait for that material.
Thanks, Chris. All right. Thanks.