Transcript for:
Muscle Intelligence Podcast with Ben Pakulski and Jay Campbell

foreign hey welcome back to the muscle intelligence podcast I am your host Ben pukulski testosterone optimization is a Hot Topic in the world and as very well it should be gents if you are someone who wants to feel great look great and ultimately perform at your best whatever your sport may be your sport could be playing with your kids your sport could be your business your support could be life I highly suggest you listen up tune in and listen to everything that Jake Campbell and I talk about today Jay is the author of the testosterone optimization Bible he's written books on peptides and I was writing a book called 30 days to shreds Che has really taken a a really strong hold of the optimization space when it comes to men and we had a really great conversation that really goes all the way back to what's happening in utero for yourself and your children and your future children and your grandchildren and how you can ultimately protect men how we can protect our testosterone how you can protect your daughters as well ultimately in how men can live learned to thrive from ultimately the day you're born your children are born all the way up into adulthood all the things that are non-negotiables to optimize your testosterone naturally what are the big levers and the small levers uh overcoming some of the myths well should you be taking testosterone should you be taking anti-estrogens and a robotase Inhibitors uh Jay and I have an amazing conversation that's really going to enrich your understanding of human optimization hormone optimization ultimately how you can live a body or live your life in a body that you absolutely love and Thrive testosterone is a really big lever and if you're not someone who ultimately understands it this is going to be a great Deep dive and certainly an accessible conversation we're not talking about too much of the science throughout diving into the research we're really giving you a lot of actionable items that can ultimately give you some some immediate action steps and if you need some motivation inspiration this may be a good one for you as well um we get into some controversial things as well uh if you do enjoy this podcast listen all the way through the end because we do kind of take a little bit of a tangent at the end and get into some very very interesting stuff as is always the case when you talk to Mr J Campbell ladies and gents thank you for being here enjoy this conversation with Jay Campbell today's podcast is brought to you by our friends at buy optimizers my optimizers is our longest standing sponsor the podcast and that's because their products work I believe in them and you believe them as our customers and our listeners ultimately and they keep showing up for us we want to show up for them so if you're not already using magnesium if you're not already using mass designs if you're not already using capex if you're not reusing their amazing nootropic products head over to buy optimizers.com that's b-i-o-p-t-i-m-i-z-e-r-s by optimizers.com they use the code muscle10 with 10 off these are just truly incredible products and the thing I love about them is they're foundational they're things that everyone can use and everyone can benefit from um the Magnesium is the best the the mass times are non-negotiables for me they are always in my medicine cabinet they've got this incredible array of very very useful products that are really well formulated and I've actually been diving into the nootropics a little bit more recently um you know obviously how we show up mentally is a big big advantage or potentially disadvantage in your life and I'm really loving some of their custom nootropics uh head over to buyoptimizers.com you use the code muscle10 enjoy the podcast but Jay Campbell it's all the way the end I've got some amazing info come at you as well Jay Campbell what's up Mr Ben bakulski how are you my brother I'm doing all right man you have any good morning I heard better but it's now a lot better right now yeah man we'll dive into some testosterone optimization so really what I'm doing is putting together a compilation of uh the best resources uh in the world on testosterone optimization and you are my friend on that list so thank you for being here thank you my brother for having me it's always an honor and a privilege and definitely I'm humbled to be here so let's make some magic it actually blows my mind every time I talk to my clients about testosterone and they're like oh yeah I read Jay's book and I'm in Jay's community and I was like Chase doing is good stuff man good for you brother like you've made a name for yourself you definitely got a great understanding and your passion for it rings true and thank you too because you know when you did this when you and I did this podcast back in 2019 I mean a lot of doors opened up for me you know you got me massive viewership I I still think it might be like one of the most viewed podcasts like that one and the one I did with Mark ripito are probably two of the most viewed podcasts really in YouTube history on testosterone optimization you know I'm really going deep into it you did an amazing job on the interview so I'm looking forward to this one too yeah man I think we could probably go into some unique directions but I'm not sure what your timing looks like but I'd like to start a kind of foundational stuff for people right so assuming people coming into this podcast are you know they maybe they don't know right like you you know I I think we sometimes exist in this world assuming that people know a lot of things about testosterone and why it's important and why they need to do it and some of the BS that gets kind of perpetuated around around the world I love to kind of get you know sift through all of it so yeah so let's start in kind of kind of the beginning of you know someone walks into a gym and they're like hey man I'm not getting the results I want why would someone consider uh well yeah why would someone consider taking testosterone in your mind and is this the type of thing that most men should be considering 20 years ago my answer would have been different than that and I think you and I both know that we are literally living in contaminated cities the planet is contaminated the bigger the city the more the people the more the industrialization and modernization the more the contamination so the majority of people today about both males and females you know have hormonal dysregulation and so if you're a man or a woman obviously and you're looking to optimize yourself from a physical capacity and of course a mental capacity I mean you almost have to get your Labs drawn right you have to know what you're working with most people you know to answer your questions specifically have no idea and it's unfortunate because most of them who do suspect that there's an issue end up going into a PPO or an HMO doctor you know again an insurance doctor who has no idea about therapeutic testosterone or hormonal optimization or any of that stuff and so what they do is usually put them on because most of the people are suffering if they do have an issue of depression brain fog in the afternoon which are two of the biggest symptoms and then sometimes just you know just a lack of interesting life right to address the quote-unquote brain issue or the depression issue and then if they do have some form of like sexual dysfunction or erectile dysfunction they give them a blue pill or a pink pill right it's Cialis survive Viagra Levitra and so obviously the underlying condition which is a testosterone deficiency is never even treated so it's a it's a really tough issue today you know if you go around and you know ample where I live or LA or New York or Atlanta or any of the major cities you just look around at men dude I mean you can tell that most people are uh by the BMI obese yeah too much body fat and so you know automatically when you have a giant belly or too much body fat it's almost assumed that you have you know a testosterone deficiency because of the inflammation you know you have in your gut so it's it's unfortunate um today where we are because obviously there's a lot of people that could use treatment but never ever find somebody that can even offer it I love that you started there actually was talking a lot of best friends in the world on Sunday and he's this really holistic guy historically he's like Ben you got to eat 19 vegetables a day and it's gonna be all organic and and when I spoke with them the other day he said you know what man not so big on the vegetables anymore he's like you know why because the soil is sick yeah it's like the soil is sick and you're consuming these these vegetables that are just deficient in nutrients and probably adding more toxins into your body and like he's like you know the world is really confused and I think most people need to start with blood work and like see what your body's deficient in and uh is your body sick and if your body's sick then and the food you're eating is sick well then you're definitely going to be sick too and did I love the way you went with uh just looking at the world man I was somewhere last week oh you know I was I was at a water park with my kids and the level of obesity as I'm saying right and like it's truly frightening insane and I don't and and you know what frightens me most brother is it's kids yeah it's kids yeah like my son's buddies they're all 20 plus percent body fat and these 11 years old bellies right if their breasts yeah 11 years old I was like this isn't right man and it's not their fault no like it's crazy so as men like how and it's beginning that young you know and so and you're again I know this is the area of expertise but what do you think kids or parents should be doing with their children to allow these kids to to not you know like man 11 year old boy he doesn't understand a chance of having an effective puberty of having great testosterone levels during puberty yeah he's gonna he's broken like well yeah any thoughts and opinions on like oh yeah no for sure I mean I talk about this all the time and yeah I'm not an expert but Dr Anthony J is right and you and I are friends with Dr J I literally just talked to him a couple days about this and look there the reality of our youth today is most men and really women it's the opposite of women but under the age of 25 we now know that this all goes back to birth control in utero now most fetuses are not getting enough testosterone and that is again due to the endocrine disrupting chemicals again you know as Anthony likes to say that you know the birth control washing off into the water supply I mean we know about putting you know male fish in the water aqueducts streams lakes rivers tributaries now within one year they become female right so I mean all you have to do is understand that like basically males are not getting enough testosterone in utero and so they're coming out weaker less bone density fatter because you know that's the other thing is Right testosterone is light the lytic so when you have a natural amount of testosterone in utero and also as a youth you're going to develop stronger bones be less bot have less body fat and then you also have to combine it with what you just said the poisoned and the poison and contaminated environment the food the water the Plastics the estrogenics the phthalates the BPA all these things are combining to just cause this like toxic soup that young people live in and so it's very difficult but for parents I mean you have to be extremely proactive I mean look I have two daughters girl dad and my daughter is 15 and 13 and my 15 year old is extremely athletic she's like a national Level Cheer competitor you know she's like Mary Lou Retton do 12 backflips across the room and every time I see her she's jumping up and spreading her legs as wide as she can and then you know my 13 year old is you know luckily genetically she's pretty gifted in that she's not probably ever going to be fat even though but she doesn't eat well the other one eats well does cardio every night so you know our kids choose but as parents we do have a choice as far as what we give them from a food standpoint and then Ben you know this we also have to regulate their technology use because the technology is what prevents them from exercising it prevents them from being active implements them from going outside in nature and dealing with kids like you and I did when we were kids I mean I mean kids today are not kids right like what do they do they're they're Doom scrolling they're watching Tick Tock I mean it's like if you don't regulate their technology use they'll just sit there all day and just watch videos yeah and never do I don't even realize they're doing it yeah no they don't like adults do this [ __ ] man dude I'm sure you've been guilty of it at some point I've been guilty of at some point like if if a highly conscious adult can sit there and mindlessly scroll for any duration of time then how do you expect the child to be conscious enough to stop up that behavior it just becomes a spiral ambitious loop it's insane and you know the other thing is you know I just had a profound podcast with Sal DiStefano he came on I got to bring you on the podcast now something super super deep but I'll send you a link to it because it's amazing I mean he went dude he went off the deep man like he was like bro I can't do this on my show something he went so deep on my show it was just last week and we talked about the situation and what's going on and stuff like that and basically the reality is is that we cannot if we want to choose to be vigilant with our children and not give them anything but you know God created foodstuffs and not give them box crap and GMO this and that which is what pretty much every young kid eats today and I understand that you know some parents are crashed for time and they don't have time to cook home food meals and all these other stuff but those are also excuses we can give our kids quality food but when we continually Reach For You know the pack of the fruit little you know things or whatever anything that's just homogenized and coming out of a GMO package that's what is poisoning our kids and that's why you're seeing young boys with so much fat and they're so insulin resistant I mean dude type 2 diabetes is a thing now in teenagers yeah Jerry said earlier that I didn't think about man this crazy I didn't think about this birth control and so if a woman takes birth control and her teens in her 20s and then decides to have children in her late 20s early 30s or 40s is respected well yeah that that estrogen still lingers in their system and and so not only does does the estrogen that comes from birth control but the estrogen that comes from Plastics and make up all the all and pesticides lingers in her fat tissue and now this baby is literally bathing in it it's insane crazy it's literally insane and and so here's an interesting I've you know I did some I did a lot of writing on testosterone and one of the research studies that is you know mind-boggling is you know you mentioned you alluded to this not only it's the bone density of the child going to be less they're going to be less muscular but the size of their genitals is going to be smaller their testicles and their penis yeah it's crazy to think that there's this like feminization happening even in the male species and again just to think about that is crazy and I'm and you know my brain goes to both from a female male and a child perspective there needs to be some awareness around sweating I'm like I think for us physical activity as kids like you run you you play You're sweating every day you're you're allowing your body to to eradicate some of those toxins and those estrogens in at least some amount right and we could sit on their butt all day playing video games there's no there's no sweating there's no exercise their body just holds onto these toxins and estrogens and this becomes endocrine disruptors which ultimately is like hey here's why you're 17 and you have the testosterone of the gnat you know like really really not good and and all and also you know going back to parents I mean we have to be leaders by showing them the importance of exercise right like kids are mimics right like if Mom and Dad are exercising the regularly doing cardiovascular you know they go to the gym to lift to do you know to do bone bearing or bone building exercises like some of your kids if not all of them it's gonna rub off on them like my 13 year old dude I literally came home the other day I I forgot where I was but uh word wrote I told you we're rotating them right so that the mom can still be involved and she was doing cardio I must have a heart attack I I was like what's going on to Monica my wife and she's like she's doing cardio and I'm like did you incentivize her or like what's she doing it for and she's like no she just said she asked me how she could get on the machine and create an ID you know so so the reality is is like our kids see what we do and they see how we are and so it's like if you're leading by example you know and this obviously also goes over to food like how are you eating your kids are going to do most of the same thing but something that you said that also triggered me is about you know the fact the estrogen and the fat and the chemicals and the fat bro that's the reason and look I'm not making excuses for these people but that's the reason that quote unquote to flyover country in the United States is so obese I mean Anthony J was talking about this four or five years ago people were laughing at him but the atrazy and the glyphosphate in the air in the Heartland again the flyover country as they say it's so high that the majority of these people as you said have it in their fat tissue and they can't even get rid of it like having an effect issue whether you want to know yeah we'll do two now but like the really heavier people like Anthony was talking about this and again I got to give him credit you know God did what we were talking to him six years ago bro but like you know he was saying back in 2018 2019 that these people that are you know really quote unquote heavy even if they did the exercise that you and I did it would be a very difficult for them to still shed the weight because they're so Laden with toxins yeah and nobody was talking about this you know Dr Keith Nichols you know came up with his endocrine or what was it a testosterone resistance syndrome and he attempted to get it published and they wouldn't let him I mean like but he basically says that the endocrine disruptors now you know are cross-contaminating the Androgen receptors and so like you have like that in combination with all the excess toxins and it's like what are you gonna do man I so one of the protocols that I've been you know lately I'll do an hour of sauna every day put it in for 30 days in a row and I think you know if you talk about getting these toxins out I think the most effective Strat obviously exercising would be a big one changing your diets can be a bit like you got to reduce what's going in I think you could tell me if you have other strategies obviously you want there's some supplements you can take we could talk about that a little bit but uh sauna might be the most effective exercise sweating and sauna might be the most effective strategies to start getting these things out I think saunas need to become just like non-negotiable for people it is man I mean I you know obviously I just came back and parachuted from Mexico from 10 months back into the states What I've Done twice in the last year is insane and I sold my infrared soda but I have another one it's on the way um but it's crazy dude like you know because you were talking about the food earlier and you know the friend you were talking about was talking about how the vegetables and everything are contaminated bro what about Meats I mean I mean I will tell you this we haven't talked where my wife is getting our grass-fed beef wherever it is here at some local butcher in Tampa bro I told her to stop buying it I mean literally I taste the chemicals in the grass-fed beef now now again I'm very sensitive because in Mexico as you know it's all formed a table food there is none of that down there right so it's like you know when you're eating clean quote unquote you know grass-fed and wild caught fish and meat and here it's not and so it's like you know because she always will summer up a bunch of grass-fed beef on Sundays and then you know we'll just eat it through the week or whatever and I just told her the other day I can't eat this like I literally taste the chemicals in it so who's fact checking the fact Checkers when it comes to grass-fed beef and wild caught fish in America right now dude dude I'm sitting over here smiling because the first time I moved to the US was 2007 and so I had every year I had done bodybuilding shows I did the same thing my body was predictable I could be like hey at 14 weeks how to do this at 12 weeks how to do this like 10 weeks how to do this and I made these very specific changes predictably when I moved to the US I was living in California nothing happened the same I was like what why is my body holding on fat why am I holding it like like something's wrong and then I was like [ __ ] meat it's the meat I'm eating chicken I'm eating fish I'm eating steak um it's california-based stuff or us-based stuff and I was like for my whole life I took for granted the fact that Canada's Got much obviously lower population so this the rate of production of meat is much lower and so I'm getting meat from these organic local farms I was like God I didn't realize that the quality of meat and Canada is exponentially good availability is less but the quality is much greater and dude I held on to Fat so much differently in the US my body distributed it differently it held more fat in my lower body it was very interesting to observe and I was like and of one study it's the same I mean and yeah it's the same in Mexico you know there's no and the difference between Canada I'm actually going to the US are people so they understand this and you guys can fact check us this is again they those countries do not allow the pesticides and the you know what do they call electrogenic estrogens in the air that they have in in the United States I mean bro the EPA is a scam in the United States again Dr J has talked about this Keith Nichols and I have done podcasts on this Keith has gone to the EPA and try to get like them to release information and to admit that this is happening you what what CPA oh the Environmental Protection Agency so they pretty much cover up all of this and so they have studies about this stuff you can search pubmesan I I think I think Canada also has horrible uh pesticides but simply the population is going to be less so the production rates the requirement is going to be lower so people aren't trying to like speed their way through like we're going to douse pesticides everywhere yeah it probably isn't the same level of requirements so you will actually find you're in Europe and Canada are way way behind I mean not behind but in front of the us and that they do regulate some things whereas in the US it's just a giant contamination pool at this point and you know to the lobbies it's all money big aggro pays off everybody so there's just no enforcement of anything yeah man said one of the things you said in there uh that I want to kind of pull back on and double tap on is he said you know parents need to be leaders and this is a really ironic uh statement because certainly men are evolved to lead the family but when men are obese and astrogenic and lacking testosterone they move away from their leader leadership nature and they end up becoming pacifists and and followers and they're looking to be led and they don't lead and I think this comes back to the testosterone conversation it's like chicken of the Eggman you're fat and you're not leading kids are following your fatness and your kids are following your laziness and men need to be like hey I need to take control of my body and take control of my life so I can actually lead the next generation of humans dude this is the mission of muscle intelligence I want to give men back their masculinity give them back their physical capability so that we can lead our next Generation that's literally why I do what I do yeah and me too man and and look man I I think it's important that we talk about obesity and we talk about just being fat and and you know from an actual physiologically biomedically understanding like if you're morbidly obese you have literally cytokine storms going on in your body at all times now again more inflammatory storms for people don't know what that means yeah exactly and morbidly obese for people that don't understand is according to the BMI and I know the BMI is not an accurate gauge especially for people that like us that are more muscular and you know uh bigger bone and stuff but like at the end of the day if you're 30 body fat is a man or higher you're technically considered morbidly obese and when you feel let's just say you're carrying 30 to 35 percent body fat around you at all times you never feel well ever you are in some form of pain or suffering 24 7. I mean like literally even when you sleep at night your body is screaming help help help in so many different ways so it's like it's important Ben that people like us have compassion and empathy for people who are overweight because they are suffering and obviously as you said it's much more difficult for them to start exercising and then let's also talk about the dysbiosis right like so when you're also of that level your microbiome is so highly inflamed and so toxic that for you to even attempt to not like go to eight to ten hours to 12 hours without eating is a very difficult chore and so it's like these people are really really up against it now obviously people all every day are losing weight and people go from losing 75 to 100 to 125 pounds and change their life but it's a much more difficult task today than it was before again due to the toxic load that Society is like burdened with at all times yeah I think um the mind and when you say compassion men I'm absolutely compassionate and I think people need to hear it in a real way man like yeah they do they people need to realize like listen yeah I realize you're struggling I realize it's not going to be easy but you gotta you gotta do it man like if we don't change we don't kind of take the initiative and and help the people who want to be helped the world's not going to change so it does require people being real and you can't constantly use softeners but like oh it's okay like I don't care yeah no it's not not that it's not okay like socially I don't give a [ __ ] about your like so I'm talking about like in in your body like yeah it's not okay hormonally it's not okay from a health perspective like socially like man I don't care what you look like I want you to be feel healthy I want you to life Elon perform at your best and I think that that to me is what your ultimately is going to change the world and feels like an uphill battle well remember too and and you know again Society you know whoever's behind the whole like fat acceptance movement is ill right because again you know at the end of the day being proud of what you look like is fine but when you're morbidly obese and you're fat you're not fine you're a health care burden you are a system burden and you and I both know bro you are a short lifespan but I mean there's no getting around that I mean you're highly inflamed you have all that visceral body fat I always say this and people think this is not true but just real body fat is more inflammatory than kerosene so when you start thinking about that right visceral body fat is what's around the organs which is what causes this ease right so it's like how can somebody think that that's okay like how is that like pushed out there to be acceptance right like being fat is perfectly as you said socially if that's what you want to do be my guest you're going to live a shorter life than the average person it's literally that simple it's statistically proven because again all that visceral body fat eventually leads to one of the diseases of Aging heart attack cancer uh you know type of re-diabetes yeah which is neurodegenerative Disorder so you're up against it yeah I hope it doesn't sound to anyone like a show in this conversation or a couple guys who are super fit being like hey you guys need to get in shape that's not what this is about it's like hey well how do we support you in doing it right if you're somebody's like hey I'm ready and willing to take action that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of like okay what are the first action steps right what are the things you must be doing so why don't we make that the next question Jay in your opinion what are the top three to five things that that a man sitting out listening to this podcast or even a woman must be doing is non-negotiables so I mean number one obviously is making sure that you are getting proper sleep right like proper sleep I would say right now is the most underestimated most under looked at you know component of everyday living if possible for if you're obese you're eating like [ __ ] there's no way you're gonna sleep well your inflammation is going to kill it but dude then there's this right like so many people plug this thing in literally next to their head at night and go to sleep they have no idea the power the electromagnetic frequencies that are coming out of these things these transponders these routers these wireless modems whatever you want to call them so there's like so sleep hygiene is number one number two is obviously get your blood work done you have to know what you're working with I don't care what your age is look at 25 you should be getting your lab work done you know that you and I know there's tons of private uh Labs out there now you know one of the ones I work with is private MD Labs but there's direct Labs there's discount Labs you know there's so many different companies there's even Labs now I can't to thank God so it's like get your lab work done if you're a man you have to look at your free testosterone your total testosterone and your sensitive estradiol just to kind of understand where you're at you know we can talk about estradiolence testosterone at some point in this conversation because that's still so misunderstood but the other three things are living in what I would call living insulin control and living insulin control is obviously suppressing if not regulating your blood glucose production which is again coming from your consumption of carbohydrates and you know Ben most people by the time they're 25 you know and this is again my opinion should know like you know what is there so much there's somatotypical Expressions so are they ectomorph and endomorph a mesomorphically more naturally muscular naturally skinny or naturally fatter and the fatter you are and even this goes to like the the real skinny you know skinny fat ectomorphic types the less carbohydrates they should be eating because their body just cannot process insulin as effectively as a you know mesomorphic type person so control your carbohydrate consumption and then you know again I call it live insulin controlled and then the other two things are obviously exercise right like are you building muscle muscle is the greatest deterrent to the diseases of aging and it obviously is also like makes you a human sump pump the more muscle you have the more insulin sensitive you are right and then you know obviously too cardiovascular exercise you've got to strengthen the heart you got to strengthen the vascular system as your age so you know are you doing regular cardiovascular and people don't have to do intervals or fireworks or any of that stuff you know which is obviously difficult not that it's not good stuff for some people but all you have to do is walk on an incline on a treadmill or on a hill I mean obviously I know you and I like preferring walking in nature you know to connect with nature but you know those are really to me the most non-negotiable things today you know I know that was four or five things but I mean if you do those things you're pretty much going to be okay I mean obviously beyond that to really optimize you want to look into optimizing your hormones using peptides you know low-dose growth hormone things like that but those other things are the are the are the non-sequiters yeah we'll get that stuff too man the two things that that what I what I think people need to emphasize is what it sounds like is it's a behavior change conversation right so we talk about we need to change your behavior the two things that I always convert to is own your time and own your own your arousal state right on the state of your body so most people have excuses around time and then uh then they're like I'm stressed right so one I don't have time in the day [ __ ] own your time which means do an audit right every single person that starts my coaching we do a 16 hour audit so ideally you're sleeping for eight you got 16 hours a day what are you doing how much time do you spend on social media how much time you spend doing [ __ ] you don't need to be doing right and say oh well guess what we just found the hour you need to be doing extra the other thing is on your arousal state right so when you're stressed your state of arousal is heightened and you end up getting this metabolic disconnect between your brain and your body your brain's going I'm uh there's there's a sabertooth tiger there's a lion you know out here and you're sitting on the couch or you're sitting in your car and so I think those two things when it comes to behavior change should be added to that list of like non-negotiables for people like man you gotta own your time be aware because like I I see people being like I don't have time to do this I don't have time to make food I'm like yes you do yes you do because if I do so do you and uh again I'm both of us are just as busy as every single person who would ever listen to this right we have children we have businesses and we train and we have partners and spots yeah let's make it a priority right he's like I'm not I'm not going to not do this so like what else is going to fall by the wayside so that I can make time to do my training because otherwise you're going to be fat sick and lazy yeah that's absolutely true and I love that fat sick and lazy but the reality is too is I left off the biggest thing and I'm glad you brought it up is is you know to to to to to take time or to literally spend a part of every single day with a ritual right and and for me it's a morning ritual of sitting in Stillness you know it can be meditation it can really just be me being on my vibergetics uh technology which I did before this amazing podcast today uh to calm me down from like oh I told you I was dealing with right now you know and and it can also just be sitting in nature you know you don't have to have like Advanced you know harmonic frequency Tech that you need to use even though it's great if you do have access to that but uh just sitting in your backyard with your dog observing and listening you know something something I learned the other day and this is like full-blown woo but it's perfect to be on your podcast if you go outside stressed out and you take nothing with you no phone no headset no Bluetooth or anything and you you know you can take your dog or whatever and you just sit and lit this is it sounds probably a little bit woo but it's totally true listen to The Birds the birds are so connected to us at a holistic you know Soul you know holographic soul level that they will literally change the tonality of their singing to lower your stress level but you have to be tapped into listening to them and to really truly sit there and observe and listen but I read about that you know and there's actually studies about this stuff out there on this but I have done it two or three times now my wife I learned this about a couple of months ago and dude it's unreal you could also take like uh 432 megahertz frequencies uh like I have one called um I forget what it is if it's sympathies in the angels and you can play that and dude it is the most amazing thing like all the natural the natural elements of your surroundings that is I can hear that intonation of those Angelic Melodies they chill out like you should see my pit bull when I play that like he automatically comes back into here and just sits right next to me and just completely goes into like a trance and you can even the other day I was playing a dude I had a big lizard right up against my glass I have a picture I'll send it to you after this thing and I was like that's the most insane thing like the lizard was literally up against the glass listening to the sounds so nature does connect with us but we have to be open to that we have to be receptive to that idea and so like that's so cool to think if you just go out and you're stressed out and you listen to the birds they'll literally lower your stress level yeah and so there's you know just to kind of validate what you're saying they're they're you know sound baths are a real thing sound bulls and some of them that are not made in you know like mass-produced China if these things are actually made legit in like Tibet or where they're supposed to be yeah are actually all tuned to 432 Hertz and when they play them they have a healing uh tonality yeah and people would know that like you've ever done sound therapy or sound baths the ones that are actually tuned to the right frequency again I'm not an expert frequency but I'm very familiar with this this concept like it has a healing benefit to your tissues so you're speaking the right stuff and man here's an interesting story last time I did Ayahuasca um we were out in the jungle and we're in the middle of uh this this Retreat Center a gentleman who was was leading uh Shaman was also playing music and he was it was and this is before I was like deep in the Ayahuasca so I was aware of what was happening he was playing music and he was I don't want to see it's like controlling but he he was playing a dialogue with the birds yeah dude like I have I out of his supported he was playing and then pausing and the birds would play it back it was yes mind-blowing I was like how do you do that and he goes I just is I have just always been able to do that I was like this is so I'll see some specific frequencies sounds crazy but like no but no I mean I just do it but I'll send you the audio Yeah it's not though like I'm actually rereading right now lost teachings of Atlantis and I'm going to send you that on PDF you might have even read it before it's an amazing book it was given to humanity at night he was literally given to humanity in 1997 and dude I read it you know I've been on the Lulu full-blown esoteric Trail forever but I read it in 2004 and dude consciously I wasn't ready for it so now I'm like rereading it and like sometimes you reread a book that you read you know 20 years ago and you're like blown to the back of the thing but like they have an entire section in this book about our true Essence and who we are and how we are all connected and how all the natural ecosystem is connected but you have to like again listen in you have to uh tune and to the tune and so that's exactly what you're saying and that guy you know being a shaman you know being a medicine Giver is completely connected to Nature yeah all right man let's let's bring about let's reel it back in here Jay um you said you want to talk about estradiol for sure man like what what a complex conversation right around estrogen and for the listeners we've been talking about Dr Anthony Jade if you haven't already listened or read the book uh Esther Generation by Dr Anthony J go and get it now give it to all your friends yes just like everyone needs to understand this again what what a you know generational book what a transitional book for people who ultimately want to understand truly I was just [ __ ] up the the environment is and where we're living in this cesspool and uh I mean I'm I'm not neurotic but I would say I'm obsessive about removing Plastics and toxins like I think you have to be in as a parent you have to do it for your children to I mean we talked about like oh we want our kids to do well in this world and if you could do any single thing like if I didn't send them to school like no you don't get to go to any grade school you're going to stay home if I do any single one thing I think it would be like controlling what goes into their body just because like they're going to get to 18 years old and they're going to be so far ahead physically and mentally of everyone else because everyone else is like trudging through sludge and these people are like oh my brain actually works so my hormones do what it is and what they're supposed to be doing like they're like oh everyone else is just [ __ ] broken and I'm able to do this from a perspective of like oh I actually feel really great so everything in life becomes easier they can literally be uneducated at 18 years old with zero education but if they're physically optimized Everything feels easy and they're like oh well I can do all these things my memory works and my brain works and my penis works and my heart is open and like I feel I don't feel like I'm always stressed out and overwhelmed and anxious because like my hormones are regulated like if we could just do that for our children we give them such an advantage this it's no doubt I mean my I I told you this before just a you know quick side note you know when my daughter came here last year when I sent her back to be with my ex and she was a freshman at sickles high school you know they have a big time uh cheered program and you know she didn't know anybody was not connected you know I didn't go in and talk to anybody or anything um and she went in and made varsity and she made varsity because Ben she's been lifting with us and she was 10 years old right and she was like so strong you know and again this is the one that does take care of her body and has been emulating her mom and dad um but again she was lifting I mean I mean like if you just have your children start lifting whether 10 11 12 years old you know and it doesn't have to be like super intense like the kind of stuff that you and I would do but like just to get on a program of two or three days a week it's unreal the changes that they can make and you're right I mean that teaches them all these other things that we're talking about in the show self-confidence you know the ability to actually you know manipulate quote unquote time I mean that's something that people don't realize is like when you train and you lift weights and you build a a really nice physique over time you always have control over time tell me about that yeah for sure so I mean like if you think about it like somebody who goes to the gym regularly for 20 30 40 Years of their life and they build a physique and they're strong and again they're resistant to disease the resistance to gravity they build strong bones those are people that have control over time because obviously they've got their life together I mean you know you talk you know I was listening to what's this guy that that bedrose guy the other day I forget what it was yeah somebody sent me a clip of what he was saying he says if you show me a 40 to 50 year old fit man or woman I show you a person who is controlled who has control over their time and he was attempting to say that like a person that has done that has obviously also modeled successful standards or programs or protocols or whatever in their life because they have been able to manipulate their physical body in in a day and age where very few people can in a way that behooves them to stand out right and it's not just from a physical Mastery but it's from a a Mastery of self yeah no totally and and the thing that I would I would add to that is you know I'm a big advocate of State Control arousal control and if I can always be in the optimal state of arousal right and I'll see what for lizards know what I'm talking about like if I'm squatting 500 pounds I shouldn't be in the same state of arousal as what I'm sitting here with you or when I'm reading my daughter a book to go to bed right those are different states of arousal but people don't have the ability to kind of go through this full spectrum of arousal so they lose the ends right they lose the top so they never get to like high-end like Peak arousal of exertional arousal and they never get to the bottom they never get to this calm relaxed College them like State and I call it the warrior and the monk right yeah so we start to we start to have this like I call it the walls closing in around do we start to lose that we lose those ends our ability to to uh influence our productivity changes right I can't be as focused and productive and I certainly can't be as calm so you end up living in this kind of medium beige state of arousal that prevents us from doing things effectively so Effectiveness drops so you talk about owning your time well what is Time's Effectiveness it's efficiency and Effectiveness so if I want to be super effective and efficient then I need to own those extremes of arousal and people simply don't right and this is this is we talk about like well start with meditation start with breath work start with a walking practice every day non-negotiable breathe walk meditate and then add weight training on top of that add great sleep on top of that and all of a sudden oh now I can actually access these these Peak states of arousal and do things that are more effective yeah no beautiful man I mean I have really nothing to add to that I mean you know breath walk get into Stillness I mean I mean that's I mean it's non-negotiable bro I mean like you imagine like I mean imagine if you didn't do that well you'd be like the average person right but like when you do this you take control over your States and look in today's world now there's I look at it as it's bifurcated you're either empowered Sovereign and free totally in control of everything that you do in your life or you're a victim and when you're a victim you're not empowered you're actually you're disempowered and it's not your fault you know you're not accountable you're not personally responsible so it's like we all have a choice your state of being as you say your state of arousal is literally a choice so every single day no matter how bad your day is and again remember everything that we look at is a labeled perspective it doesn't really mean it so right if you label it as a bad day it's just because observationally you classified into that what if you classified it as a learning experience opportunity day right so it's like everything is just a state of us observationally declaring it as such so again I always tell people no matter where you are in your life you can literally decide that today is the day that you change to go from a positive mindset and a positive state of awareness from a quote unquote negative or victimhood state of awareness or mindset which is again you're not personally accountable I I used to tell my 13 year old daughter when she would complain all the time I'm like Gabby and my wife hates me using these words but I would always say Gabby it's your fault even though I knew it wasn't if you get someone to take ownership for everything that happens to them in their life then they will understand that that like everything that happens is a choice for me to either learn and grow from or to classify this that's a hard one dude I get what you're saying it's a hard one for kids right because kids kids can take that to mean I'm a bad person or like because kids I always talk about you know at most adults aren't in control of the ability to to understand or regulate their emotions sure so we throw something down on a kid you're like oh everything's my fault it means I'm a bad person or I'm not good enough so I'm like I'm real I'm really careful with how I throw I mean I tell her she complains a lot and I tell her a lot that Gabby you have a choice to complain or not yeah and whether or not you perceive it as this that and the other is against you or I'm not supporting you you have to get to a place where you realize that you are accountable for everything that happened to you in your life so it's like when you know when she's acting up and stuff like that I'll just say no it's your fault just like that you know and she'll get all mad at me and stuff like that but she understands that I'm coming from a place of like teaching her that she has to become sovereign and I think too many people are teaching their children to become sovereign you know and as you know the narrative teaches everybody that you don't have to be Sovereign it's not your fault Ben oh it's everyone else's fault and so man I love that and I would say that makes a lot of sense as long as I know you do this as long as you're there to also support them so it's not like it's your assault and you're on your own it's like yeah it's your fault and I'm here to I'm here to walk with you guys well I'm here to walk with you through this challenge right and exactly I think I think a lot of parents need to just parse that she's like throwing a bunch of responsibility in a 13 year old girl when she's confused as far as to begin with this probably art but if you're like hey it's your fault and I'm here to support you through it like okay now the kid doesn't feel alone like they're like oh what do I do I'm confused and don't know where to go it's working because I came home the other day and she was on she's like crushing that treadmill yeah I have no doubt like all right we said we're gonna you had some some explanations around estradiol and yeah helping people parse that so let's get deep into that so so the average physician that prescribes therapeutic testosterone does not understand the importance of estrogen in the in the in the endocrine system and and what's happening and so just and again we talked about this on our podcast five years ago and it's people are getting sadly it seems like it's getting dumber and there's more and more Bro Science but estrogen is what confers protection to biological systems right so when you take therapeutic testosterone it obviously is converted to estradiol through the aromatase enzyme and then the aromatase enzyme produces or or creates estrogen and then estrogen is what goes through the body and exerts a protective effect on literally everything the brain the vasculature the heart bone mineral density the skin the nerve fiber bundles all of these things so when you're on therapeutic testosterone if your doctor is prescribing an aromatase inhibitor medication which is you know short for an AI they are literally stopping the beneficial effects of therapeutic testosterone in fact making you more susceptible to a shortened lifespan for all the bad reasons that are the the negative side effects and symptoms that suppressing estrogen causes so and and again I see this so often nowadays been uh it's crazy we were talking about this on the how optimization podcast a couple weeks ago they're now compounding testosterone and AIS together in injectable preparations they're giving guys uh clomiphene and AIS in capsules as testosterone optimization I mean it's the most insane thing dude so so money makers right I'm sorry say that again it's just money makers people trying to exactly they're making money but but at the end of the day it's at this point now we're in 2023 almost in 2024 if your physician is still prescribing you an aromatase inhibitor please get a different physician I mean it really is that simple there is no medical need ever I mean Dr Rob cominarak has been prescribing hormones I know you know I'm you know for 26 years now he's a great friend of mine you know he will say to you he's like I hate when Jay you know goes extreme he's like there are slack medical you know situations and all ears where we will put a person on an AI you know and then titrate them off because we know the harm it causes long term but look nobody on therapeutic testosterone okay for unless you're one of those out leader specific people and believe me it's a very small chance that you are ever needs to be on those again due to the long-term harm they cause so again I would just say that the simplest solution is find a doctor who understands that using therapeutic testosterone you want to allow your estrogen to fall to its natural level now the truth is is that and there's not a lot of science that supports this but the the protective level of estradiol in a man on therapeutic testosterone is somewhere between 70 and 100 okay now if you're a 125 150 160 and you have no symptoms or no side effects then that's fine the problem is then is that the docs you know again who are working with the the laboratory ranges there are compressed values um are trying to keep their patients in those you know standard mean deviations of like 22 and 40 or whatever it is I think it's 24 and 44. and it has no correlation to people who are on therapeutic hormones so that's where the biggest problem is so again you have to work with a physician that understands this and isn't going to keep you in that narrow range which is really truthfully unhealthy and there's also docs out there I will name them to keep their docs or keep their patients under that range and then these guys feel like duh literally feel like that you know so don't do that if you're watching this show yeah so let's talk about why um people's restaurant's eye right you take testosterone as you mentioned your body converts from testosterone into uh estragal via these aromatase enzymes and that's why these are empty Inhibitors if your body fat is elevated your body will convert more testosterone so first thing you guys need to do if your body if your estrogen time lose some body fat second again the the effect of environmental estrogens again I'm not sure that I can draw a correlation there can you draw a correlation between xenoestrogen the things that are coming from Plastics and pesticides and phthalates uh directly influencing estradiol levels in in blood markers or where how's it what's the correlation now because I don't know you can measure it no 100 we can I mean so again Dr Keith Nichols you know with testosterone resistance syndrome you remember he was talking about that when you met him five years ago it's Swiss right yeah it's crazy bro it was five years ago but like you know you couldn't get it he couldn't get the paper published nobody would accept like all the research that he was doing so he just gave up and then you know he started going to the endocrine Society their yearly meetings and he was like talking to all of them and like none of them would even speak to him so he's like Jay I just gave up he's like they don't want to talk about it they don't want to admit it but yes the phytoestrogens you know the xenoestrogens all these things in the environment are also sticking again too this rule body fat you know coagulating you know inside the rinds of the fat causing these issues so you you named it and and it's also I think very important for men to understand that when doctors label them as having high estrogen symptoms or side effects that is a complete misnomer what they have is what you just said they have I visceral body fat and high inflammation and the inflammation and the visceral body fat is what causes the quote unquote assumed high estrogen symptoms and again let's define what these symptoms are these symptoms are nipple sensitivity mood alteration or imbalance water attention just a feeling of being off and again this is 90 percent of bros in the testosterone using community and I'm not talking about bodybuilders I'm not telling you know that industry way better than me but for guys on therapeutic testosterone if you're 20 body fat or higher you are going to have high estrogen symptoms because as you just said you have high levels of inflammation you have high levels of visceral body fat and look here's something else that nobody talks about this and I did not say this in 2018 because I didn't know now I do if you're a guy with a belly again a lot of guys on testosterone have a belly and you're injecting subcutaneously right into that visceral body fat that's causing cytokine storms the body is seeing that testosterone even though it's going to be good for you long term as an exogenous element combined with already the fat that you have there which is already producing cytokine storms and now it's creating another one so that's why you have quote unquote more elevated again just specifically because they inject subcutaneously to the fat or what specifically Jay that's literally what it is it's literally seen as a inflammatory Cascade from the testosterone into an already inflammatory Cascade so if they go into the muscle they can avoid this um somewhat I mean they're still going to have quote unquote high estrogen symptoms if they have too much body fat and inflammation but absolutely it will not be as pronounced if they do not inject right into the belly yes but they're still going to have them so I mean it's not like they're going to go away and then obviously it also comes down to the physician having awareness of there are no such thing as high estrogen symptoms because again and and and very smart doctors have had this conversation with me they'll say to me but Jay if the patient comes and complains that they have all these side effects again what we label is high estrogen symptoms water retention mood alteration imbalance and then nipple sensitivity what do I do and I say you either lower their dose or you teach them to lose body fat as you already said but writing them a script for a serm which is a selective estrogen receptor modulator or an AI is not the solution because a we know what it does long term to their house man yep so I say my my first order of business is you need to sweat every day and that means you need to exercise hand and not not or and get in the summer and I think those things should go hand in hand I think people should exercise first and try to get in the solder right away because it actually increases excretion of toxins yep but yeah so that's a big one like you got to be sweating and people just don't sweat it off right like spend time outside spend time moving that's that's your greatest mechanism of excretion of estrogens then you could also look at supplements that bind and excrete estrogens like uh dim sulforaphane calcium to glucorate in combination but those ones are again effective but I think if you're not exercising and obviously putting yourself in a caloric deficit at some level it's not going to work I mean that that's the best thing that can be said I mean the reality is is like how many Bros I just love saying the word bro use therapeutic testosterone again these are 40 to 50 to 60 year old guys who just want to be bigger stronger have better erections they know what testosterone gives them who don't do cardio you know they go to the gym and they lift but they don't do cardio it's like dude you got to do cardio like I don't care how muscular you want to be or how much you think it's going to limit your gains which is not true anyway you you literally have to strengthen the aortic valve you have to strengthen the you know all the vasculature through here you know upper breastplate because again that's how you have heart disease or heart conditions or heart events later in life I mean think of all the plaque buildup and all the stuff that happens for not doing cardio so you're right bro it's very simple do cardio even if it's just 20 to 30 minutes a day walking on a hill in your neighborhood you know what does Stan our friend stand up for eating he does three ten minute walks a day I mean how how easy is that to do yep ever told today can I hold it back yeah every time you eat and thinking all the guys listening you're like hey I'm busy Craig you're doing some eating and I do you're doing a meeting now and you're walking right get a walking treadmill yeah I'll tell you the the biggest lever that I give a lot of guys is like the morning workout becomes non-negotiable even if it's 30 minutes and of course and your target is you got to hit your Peak heart rate that's that's my target for my guys every morning and if it doesn't happen with weight training it happens with cardio like that's the target that's non-negotiable I need you to hit whatever your max heart rate is at least once and if you do that I find metabolically people are more effective throughout the day they tend to have a better arousal control throughout the day they have better appetite control throughout the day it's like start the day with something simple man I'm like get outside and move it and walking is okay but I often say walking's not enough like I need you to if you're gonna walk need to walk away somebody's chasing you so I loved that and I would even say this is a super hack this isn't 30 days to shreds man I wish I had the PDF right now that I could just give you and say for everybody that watches this but uh so after they left after they do their bone bill or their resistance training are both building you know workout dude jump on a low intense not low intensity but a low impact cardio machine and go to work for 10 to 15 minutes because remember your heart rate isn't already 125 to 135 and perhaps even higher 140 from a good workout from lifting now you don't have any warm up you're just right into zone two or even zone three and do 10 to 15 minutes three times a week you know again post training so they're assuming they're lifting three times a week is amazing accelerating caloric burn and also just maintaining low body fat yeah so I do that and I like to I like to put guys on things that are going to drive up lactate like I want people to yeah I need their body to become more effective at moving lactate or clearing lactate so if you're someone who can get on a bike and generate a bunch of lactate then that's what I want you to do and I want you to do it often because I watch what I do I'm better at because if People's resting while I take levels become elevated they become really in this right burning fat yeah you're right man you write that high intensity Stuff how to Mid intensity stuff is is why don't and you did and the thing is is like you know guys hear that they're like oh bro man intervals kill me but they're already they're probably they're already elevated yeah unreads already elevated you get on there and you start pumping at like 15 to 16 for like 30 or 40 seconds and do it like six or seven times and you know with the opposite amount of time off and then you're done yep and you don't even feel it I mean it's nothing like starting right on a bike and then you know going in and building up and then hitting intervals that's much more difficult but when you're already with the elevated heart rate from the lifting it's it's pretty easy you just have to do it you know and the thing listen to what you're saying you're right I was like oh it's hard yeah good right and then when we start changing our relationship with hard and saying like hey I intentionally moved to word challenges instead of away from this is something I teach my kids man I think everyone should teach your kids like when something feels hard or when you're afraid of something sit with it for a second and just acknowledge it yes I'm afraid yes I'm afraid yes it's going to be hard good you don't have to it doesn't have to be perfect but you have to train your brain and your body to move toward those things and not away from them and I think so many of us create the life we don't want by moving away from challenges right and that includes everything that includes like the pursuit of Partners the pursuit of businesses the pursuit of finances and like oh [ __ ] it's hard I'm going to move away from it I'm gonna go find something that's comfortable for me and just [ __ ] everyone just creates this lives they'll want and like as soon as you if you do that one hack like stop acknowledge your fear do I get it every day I'm like I acknowledge my fear in the situation and I'm gonna go and do the best I can and we have to that's all you can do and I love that I mean all you really have to do and this is the same thing that you're saying just said in a different way it's just instead of labeling something as negative come from a place of like how can I learn from this yeah how can I learn from this like what what this experience is giving me the opportunity to either want more of or want less of and either if it's either one how do I learn and grow from it and if we just look at things that are difficult slash hard and getting labeled as such as the greatest opportunity for evolution and growth I mean my God I mean we're here souls to evolve and grow what's going to make us enrolled and grow the most it's the most difficult greatest contrast oh yeah that's what I said exercises right exercise is your daily Battleground to to move toward those things because everyone stops exercise because it starts to hurt like oh it burns I'm gonna stop but they don't realize that's fear your brain goes I'm trying to protect myself that's a fear-based response so if we could say oh I feel my desire to stop I feel my discomfort I'm safe keep going right so if you ever work out with me one of the things you'll say to all my training Partners is like you're safe keep going you're safe right keep going because at the end of the day your brain's going I need to stop I'm not safe I know you're safe right and the closer you closer you can move to that proverbial fire you're like yeah eventually that fire becomes your best friend right eventually that fire you're like [ __ ] yeah this thing's is where growth exists where optimization of body and self exists and I will just say to shout out for you man like yes I've trained with Ben for two days and I would definitely still say that this guy can teach people to build muscle more better than any person that I know of on planet Earth and I and I mean that when I say that thanks man all right you all did that hi yeah I like what I do I like I think it's um I think muscle building's easy I think muscle building is the easy part people just need to get through their mind and sometimes as you say controlling the mind is is the Gateway all right now let's let's talk a few more things about testosterone before we before we wrap when we respect natural optimization of testosterone so this guy's like man I'm not sure that I want to supplement and I'm not sure that I want to take a testosterone and optimize it naturally you know we talked about getting the body fat down that's the single most important thing you can do actually the second most important thing you can do what else can can and should they be doing for guys who are you know mid 30s early 40s even 50 and be like man I'm not there yet I don't want to I don't want to take the plunge because I'm afraid I have to do it for the rest of my life which is probably a reality so obviously I look at things differently nowadays again 20 then 20 years ago but it's still possible to naturally optimize you know Dr Rob to give him another shout out you know so we're rewriting the tot Bible we're just going to edit it because it's only 85 right right so there's going to be some changes that we make to it that we got wrong a long time ago and then we're also going to cover women much better but like we talk about natural optimization like what are the percentages of people in today is contaminated sick fat and lazy society as I love your little classification there like what are the what is the real percentage of people who can naturally optimize under 30s and 40s and dude it's less than 10 and the people that are in the 10 class are also very you know retentive right these are type A personalities they're very organized they're very controlling and manipulative and in power of their time they own their time so that's ten percent of people and that's like in 30s and 40s when you get the 50s and up you just have that you're five percent right so but what can these guys do and these guys that are naturally optimizing I mean you already said it best right they have low body fat they just keep themselves in really good condition their diet is very very on point they always live insulin controlled and most of the time let's be honest these are genetically blessed people these are people that are probably a combination of a meso Ecto you know they don't put on body fat easily they can get away with you know eating you know more than the average person um these people also as you know do not drink alcohol right because alcohol is absolute greatest solvent poison nerve toxin whatever you want to call it you know as you get into your 40s and 50s so just take mushrooms instead it's 5meo right like but but the reality is exactly dude but like the reality is is like you know I had this I was on the front row dad's podcast the other day I should introduce you to that guy yeah I know John I'm actually infer with it oh that's awesome okay cool cool cool so I was on their podcast the other day and we talked about alcohol yeah I love John he's amazing and so he basically was like can you just go really deep on that because he's like I've heard you speak about it I know you're really really out smoking and just tell us like where that is but like if you want to be naturally optimized and again not use therapeutic testosterone you can't drink alcohol it's it's just there's it's a non-sequent I mean you there's nothing else you can say don't say to me oh well you know I enjoyed two glasses of wine you know three days a week or something like that okay well you're not going to be optimized I mean dude do we know this biochemically the human body can handle four ounces four ounces of um what do you call it a fermented great or Grapes of wine basically alcohol right again when you look at the biochemical conversion of alcohol it gets converted to triglycerol and then triglycerol gets converted to triglyceride and that becomes visceral body fat so I mean over four ounces which is you know bro is nothing you know I'm drinking this Propel water electrolyte thing and what is this this is a 12 ounce bottle I'm sorry a 19 ounce bottle right so four ounces is like this right that's it so I mean like when people understand that any amount over that is converted literally to triglyceride which is converted to visceral body fat on your body you cannot be optimized by having fat from alcohol so you're destroying your gut well I mean yeah exactly I mean God knows what kind of pathogenic response and dysbiosis you create in the microbiome but so beyond that like just to say this because I just also just had a was on a biohacker or biohacked or whatever their podcast and was talking about this like and again I don't want to call people out but there aren't any natural supplements that you can take that is literally therapeutically going to optimize your hormones more than transiently yes there are studies fagadocia and you know Tribulus and all these different things you know what is it magnesium glycon all these different things you know have shown at various levels and dosages to enhance total testosterone 100 points or 200 points or whatever and maybe even Elevate three testosterone 10 or 15 points but again none of them do it any more than transiently so if you're one of those guys out there buying these you know over-the-counter test boosting supplements you're pretty much throwing your money away now obviously I want to say this and obviously you and I talk about this and again being who we are we have to say this the placebo effect is very real okay we are nothing more than mind so if you believe in that supplement and then you live the lifestyle that we just talked about that you have to do you live insulin control you train you keep low body fat uh you get good sleep you know you do all those other things and you'll probably get good results and tell everybody that it works but for the average person they're not going to get the same results and no one is going to get the same results from using that comparatively to using therapeutic testosterone but I mean I totally respect and get the people that don't want to go on therapeutic testosterone because as you know yes you do have to use it forever but I mean I look at it as like why would you not in this contaminated world it's the biggest tool in the tool though yeah so you said it right there so the way I explain this stuff to people is the size of the lever and so when we talked about supplement supplements are a very small lever and they should always be always be considered a very small level they're a lever but they're a small lover so we talk about testosterone you're looking at okay well sleep is a massive lever body fat is a massive lever diet obviously becomes a massive leverage you know it's a big one that we didn't talk about that people I would say if you had to spend your money on supplements or this well this is a no-brainer it's Sunshine like go go get a tan like go spend time on the beach ideally you know move on the beach but just like a walk on the beach or if you can like get in the sun that's why I use Melody and one and scream about the Consciousness enhancing effects of Melody Tad one but absolutely man son like I'm driving I won't live anywhere there's not some yeah yeah and that that's just again I think that's a way bigger lever than any supplement that exists right sleep big lever uh movement big lever uh meat big lever potentially so talk to me about 110 one versus two I know we talked about this last time but I actually don't so I know two um 10 plus spontaneous directions [Laughter] it's an Oompa Loompa tan it turns you orange so melon has had to melted what I've written obviously prolifically about both of these melaton two I'm not a supporter of for two specific reasons one it does darken moles which obviously has been shown that you know if you have a genetic predisposition or you think about getting Cancer all the time and you don't want to have an answer because it runs in my family and the diapers tell me it does you don't want to use Nola 10 too because it will obviously darken moles and potentially accelerate you know metastatic tumor formation there's some studies a couple studies that have shown that people who have darkened their skin using melanotan too have you know basically accelerated the ability to get cancer there's been some skin cancer spontaneous skin cancer uh causations but the other thing as you said is it causes spontaneous erections and then in a lot of people and I'm one of them it also just gives you this like dry eating effect sometimes or you're just like what the [ __ ] is going on right dude I very awesome story because I figured this out like eight or nine years ago but my buddy gave me a little bit I had a plane flight I thought it was Mel to tan one and it was Melody tan two and I literally was in the bathroom over in toilet the whole plane fight it was horrible the stewardess kept coming back and she's like are you okay and then I'm like no I'm not please keep this but so it does that to some people um and yes it does darken your skin color very very effectively but it for some people it darkens the skin color like an unnatural shade like that's why I always say like orange now on a tan one however is only working with melanocytes or melanoid melanin cortoid receptor sites that are relative to your natural melanin production so you only darken as much as like a perfect skin tan would be with your skin color right and that's why I love that now the really amazing effects of melaton one is that it does enhance Consciousness now I wish I was the guy that said I was the guy that figured this out but there was a guy by the name of um Frank Barr who's actually Dr Frank Barr and bro honestly like I don't know how important this guy was but it looks like Google has now erased him and thankfully his research is still in the tot Bible which again was done in 2017 but I mean I was like researching him like four months ago because I was talking to somebody about this I had done a podcast and he wanted to go deeper on melanin and I told him I said melanin is like some pretty crazy [ __ ] like if you really understand like what melanin does it's like giant biological energy complex stuff and it's like more important than probably anything and I said look at the pioneering researcher Dr Frank Barr and so he went and he's like bro there's no Frank Barr on the internet and I'm like what and so then I started searching for him and he's gone now his thankfully his studies are still well mad but everything that's about Frank barrs he was this researcher in the late 60s in the early 70s before he was thrown off of a building or I'm sorry he was suicided off of a building in like 1972 in in California I swear to god dude so this guy's research is like insane and he was basically talking about how melanin and understand again melanoid melanin cortoid receptor complexes was like the production molecule of all energy transfers on planet Earth between all biological life and I mean again it's in the TLT Bible if you just research Dr Frank Barr and you read all the stuff in there and I have all this research and stuff linked there too which thankfully is still there but you can't find anything about them on Google it's insane he doesn't even have a Wikipedia page he used to have a Wikipedia page but anyway using melon and melnatan one if you use it in a very light surgically precise dose and then you go meditate you can get into Stillness you know interconnected connected to your higher self whatever you want to call it faster than you could if you didn't and when I first started telling people about this like seven or eight years ago they were like you're full of [ __ ] I'm like okay if you're an actual meditator and you do this kind of stuff you get you know go into moments of Silence tell me what you experienced and I've never had a person who didn't use it and obviously was using the real stuff not come back to me and say you know there's definitely something going on there and then now I know other people you know Nick Andrews is like done super level dosages of melaton one and he's like bro you go astral so there's definitely people out there that like are taking it to extremes that's not me but um I just love melon and melaton one because of I did I feel better I'm much more spiritual I'm much more connected to what I call what is and then also it obviously just keeps me protected you know from a suntan's level and I don't really use it to enhance my son because I mean obviously I'm either in Mexico Southern California and now in Southern Florida and I get enough Sun you know I spend 20 to 50 15 to 25 minutes a day in the sun usually first thing in the morning not today our house now is built so that the pool and the Lanai the Sun comes in the back in the later part of the day so I kind of like going out there around five o'clock in the afternoon for about 20-25 minutes and just sitting there and just relaxing and getting the Sun but um melanatan one is an amazing peptide again just for enhancing melanin production in your skin which will obviously automatically insulate you from skin cancers yeah very cool okay I always love chatting with you man so it's always it's always a fun adventure um getting some fun stuff um you recently uh wrote a peptide book here recently our you're finished up probably by the time this podcast Heroes your book will be live the 30-day uh fat torching yep 30 days to shreds baby yep so let's talk about both those you wanna you wanna drop people some some info where they can find you yeah for sure so I mean the easiest way to get a hold of me is just go to my website jcampbell.com uh you can also go to jaycampbell.com forward slash free books and literally get a copy of all my books with the exception of 30 days to shreds the peptide book which is called optimize your health with therapeutic peptides you get the first two chapters and the intro by just going there I'd say probably by the end of the year I'll probably put that book up there for free too because you know me bro I give away all my stuff um it's about helping people it's about serving creation serving mankind so you know for me it's not about the money I mean obviously I get just as enthralled as you are as helping people on a day-to-day basis and you know getting people in touch with obviously not just their physical health but their higher self and uh that's you know that's my focus you know this so This newest book 30 days to shreds um is 446 pages so I mean it's unfortunately really long but it's a master scientific Treatise on how to lose body fat in the quickest most effective way possible and that's obviously combining all the new you know glp-1 agonists you know we go into like the potential risks the rewards all that stuff but you know basically how somebody can lose as much fat as possible in 30 days or less and do it within the context of Health and Longevity you know I'll tell you I've done that so many times in my life you know too many to remember probably I look forward to reading your book man yeah I mean I'll send it to you literally within two to three days hopefully it as long as it's like it's the PDF said to me you'll get it too all right brother hashtag Christmas you too thank you and that's a wrap ladies and gents hopefully you did enjoy this podcast as I told you we do go on some interesting tangents uh but also these interesting stuff and uh guys at the end of the day muscle intelligence is here to support you uh to optimize your physical body to optimize your metabolism to optimize how you show up for what's important to you and um thank you for being here thank you for being a loyal listener in the muscle intelligence podcast I always do my best to bring you the best information to ultimately sift through the noise and give you information not just from people who have done it in theory not just from people who do it in practice but from people who ultimately bridge the gap into both understand both in theory and the practice because that's ultimately where the rubber meets the road and uh you know having done this at the highest level unimaginable in the world as far as optimization and physical body there's a lot of noise out there there's a lot of misinformation that's painful and I think today uh definitely gives you some unique insights into what some people are doing you ultimately apply it at a high level gents thank you ladies thank you I appreciate you being well if you're not already a subscriber of the podcast do that now because there is so much information out there I want to make sure you guys always get access we have this and so much more amazing information coming at you to optimize your hormones optimize your physical capability your physical body ultimately that way you look you see you and pixel have an amazing day and once one more time a shout out to our sponsors for today's podcast by optimizers head over to buy optimizers.com and use the code muscle tint I get hooked up they're incredible sweet box [Music] make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode this podcast is for information purposes only statements and views on this podcast 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