This is Portland, Oregon, the city that decriminalized every drug. This is Portugal, the country that also decriminalized every drug. But with insanely different results, what is the difference between Portugal's decriminalization and Portland's?
Well, the idea is legalize all drugs. Why has Portugal had great success while Portland has failed? Today, 2024 is in people's faces.
Over the last year, I've documented the deadliest drug in human history, fentanyl, infiltrate nearly every major city in America from Honolulu, Hawaii, to Anchorage, Alaska, to Kensington, Philadelphia, with drug overdose becoming the number one cause of death for Americans under the age of 40 in 37 states. In the last three years, I've seen well over 200 people that I know personally die from fentanyl overdose. And so almost everybody I know. Yeah, now your son is fucking ODing in high school, dead as shit, right? Is he alive right now?
Potentially overdosed. What can be done to stop this overdose epidemic? In 2020, Oregon passed Measure 110, decriminalizing the use and possession of all drugs, hoping it would help drug addicts feel more comfortable seeking treatment rather than hiding their drug addiction in the shadows in fear of being incarcerated. But in 2024, drug use and possession has been recriminalized and will take effect. this September.
Initially taking inspiration from the drug policy in Portugal, who claims to have solved their drug issues with decriminalization as a key part of their strategy, has made me wonder if there's something else Oregon's experiment was missing besides just decriminalizing drugs. Nearly four years after Oregonians voted to decriminalize hard drugs, the move has ignited controversy. All sides admit something isn't working.
The question is, what now? Like if you die in public? You should have to go to recovery. What do you got for sale? MDMA?
I got you blue shoes and you're free! Oh! Drogas. Drogass. And make you lose your mind.
Okay. So that is bad for health, man. Oh man, I'm talking about like, you know, there's volcanic activity and stuff like that and earthquakes. Before I go to Amsterdam and Portugal to see what Oregon may have been missing and what the United States can learn, I went back to Portland to see what the locals and drug addicts think about recriminalizing the use and possession of these drugs. Let's talk to the public here, see what they think.
As you can see right behind me. I don't like seeing people running around smoking their tinfoil and... Right here. Is this a common occurrence? Oh, every day.
Incredible. I've been... I feel absolutely wonderful at all times. I aren't picky times.
Got it. I'm an old hippie, you know. We used to get stoned and everything like that, but we were respectful.
People are doing it in a specific way where, like, look at that. It's getting to a point where it's like, you can do whatever you want to do, but at the end of the day, we're still over here working hard to get it. We all can be homeless.
We all could be on... on these kind of things, but at the end of the day, we choose to get out and walk a certain way and carry ourselves. We all have the capabilities to be less than, but we're choosing, like we're having a conversation, we're dressed a certain way.
It basically gave open reign for everybody to just do dope. I'm not saying prison or jail is an alternative or is the best solution. I don't know what the best solution is. How has the open air drug use impacted your business, if at all?
People don't feel safe. People. coming here, for example, like tourists, may think, oh, I'm not safe here. But I do feel like, you know, like a lot cleaner here than a few years back.
Like you would see feces on the ground. When did you notice that change, if at all? Since last year.
I think there are people who have straightened out their lives because of maybe a rude awakening that incarceration presented in their lives. But I know that it's a revolving door. I would rather see other oppressors. approaches tried. Do you think Portland had enough time to see the results that they were intending?
No, and I also think we're such a political hotbed, both just locally and nationally, that the atmosphere isn't appropriate for it. I think there's just too many ulterior motives. There's a lot of money to be made in the justice and criminal systems, as well as the recovery systems. And our culture is another variable that's not always perfectly transferable to a place like Europe either. Do you think it's a...
good thing to be able to use drugs in public and not be charged? No. No. To be honest, there's just smells like s**t. I think it exacerbated it.
I think that it just made it a lot, you started seeing more of it everywhere. Instead of being something people did, you know, behind closed doors, it was out in the open. We were enabling and even promoting drug use.
They could go to a number of different organizations, you know. and get clean needles and I understand the reasoning. Behind that, clean needles, crack pipes, whatever you wanted, they'd hand it to you.
But they weren't really giving them resources. Like, this is where you can go if you want to get clean. They weren't trying to help them get their lives back together so that they could have a good life and a quality life. of life, they were just enabling their drug use.
There needs to be consequences. If there's no consequences, then people are going to do whatever they want. Is it dirtier or more clean in the last month out here in Portland? Man, with us, with Central City Concern out here, It's cleaner. And I just noticed this syringe drop box right there.
Do you have to empty those? Man, I got a syringe drop box right here. Do people even use those or do they just throw them on the ground?
I don't know. I know that people do throw them on the ground. But they do a lot of, man, people look at these people like they like animals and sh**, man, it's not true because a lot of them actually do have a little pride, man, as human beings, you know?
Bars? If you threw a needle on the ground, you'd go. I wouldn't. Boom.
I ain't gonna need a fumble. This is happening everywhere, right? Philly, Kensington. You see, oh, scared row and shit, man. No, but today, 2024, it's in people's faces.
Before, they were able to point, right? Oh, look. Look at all these drug addicts. Yeah, now your son is fucking Od in high school.
Dead as shit, right? When you. You tell people that, oh hey, you know what?
Yeah, you can go and shoot up on the street corner. Here's a foil, here's needle. Well, what just happened to all of our businesses that were here?
I was born and raised here. Where's the tourism? I feel like if they want to do it in the house, they should do it in the house, not here. Yep, as long as it's not on my bus.
So let me ask you, on this bus, do you have people often walk in doing drugs? No, they light up on the bus. Do you have to do anything about it?
Can you do anything? We shut the bus down for 20 minutes. Yeah? Does that...
They're out. That's... impede and slow down the flow of bus traffic in the city?
Yes. Takes me out of service. It happens daily.
Matter of fact, I just, when I left my apartment this morning, and I was heading to go to an appointment, there's a guy, pants down, Missing one shoe, needle in his arm, out. Are you witnessing police officers come and say, hey, sorry, man, we've got to give you a fine? No.
No? When I parked down here a couple weeks ago, there were a couple of guys just doing it right there, right on second. You know, whatever that zombie drug is. Trank?
Yeah. And you see it still openly. And I walked up and I kicked his foot a couple times.
I'm not going to touch him. Make sure he's alive, right? Yeah, make sure he's alive.
No response, no response, no response. called 911. 911 didn't show up. What they did was they sent this street mental health group, you know, outreach group or whatever they are. What did they do? Did they administer Narcan?
No, they didn't do anything. They walked up and they're like, hey, hey, hey. And he just happened to move his, I mean, I was standing there and he just happened to move his head. And she's like, oh, well, he's fine.
And they got back in their van and left. What is that? Would you suggest some?
Forcible rehabilitation, is that a solution? I don't like the word forcible. You can't force anything on anyone.
And I'm just shocked at what Portland has turned into. It goes both ways, and it is a result of the opioid epidemic. And that goes back to the pharmaceutical companies and the doctors. They're just pushing that stuff on everyone. As someone who works in a restaurant, it's terrible.
It affects business, it affects everything. Seriously. We had a guy come in one time, I kicked him out for wanting to do fentanyl in the bathroom and he punched something off the wall, came back and then threw poop on our window.
If they're gonna recriminalize, is anyone gonna go to jail from the Sackler family? You know, is anyone gonna go to jail from the pharmaceuticals who started pushing this stuff? It's just a horrible, a horrible situation. I think decriminalizing it has definitely enabled people. You can see it.
You see the overdoses, you know, the spike in fentanyl. You know, like Trank is a thing now. I mean, it's getting pretty serious. It's to be seriously addressed here.
I mean, it's like a war zone. Do you think recriminalizing drug use and possession will help your situation as a business owner downtown? I think it will initially help it, but do I think it's really the help we need in the long run?
I'm not sure. It's like we need to have a better path to recovery and a path where you're forced into recovery sometimes. You can't just keep committing, committing, committing.
And and then there's no repercussion to it. Like if you die in public, you should have to go to recovery. That should be like, that's my bottom line.
I think these people need treatment and help, and I think there's still a lot of hope for them. I just don't think open use is healthy by any means. means for anybody. I don't think you give up on people.
What has happened here since 2020 is insane. I have feelings for these people. I care but at the same time I pay taxes a lot of money to be here and we need to be able to run a business. We've been seeing the collapse of the United States of America? You know...
So? It looks like it's happening right before our eyes. How we deal with drug addiction needs to be completely different than the way we're doing it now. So that's sad.
We're gonna try to figure it out. Everyone seems to be in pretty unanimous agreement that criminalizing homelessness and putting people in jail is probably not the solution, but decriminalizing it and facilitating enabling drug use is also probably not the solution. There's something a little bit more nuanced here.
The solution's somewhere in the middle, it seems. But what do the local drug addicts think about the recriminalization of the drugs they use on a daily basis? I met up with local street photographer Tara, a.k.a. Cocaine Michelle, to talk with some of the addicts downtown.
All right, take the lead. Let's go across the street. the street into the gates of Chinatown. It's like Chinatown in every city out here has a lot of drug use and homelessness. If you want Portland back, do you?
Sure. Great. Portland, Chinatown? That's the devil's playground.
But how much has the devil's playground changed since the last year I've been here? Has it gotten better or worse? Do you think it should be a crime to use drugs?
No, it saves lives. If it was regulated, you know, that it would be clean, it would be dosed right, kind of like marijuana, because people are going to do it anyway. There's people that you never ever will, they never ever will quit using it.
unless they go to prison. And the harm reduction you've seen out here, that saves some lives, in your opinion? I need to get with Governor Tina Kotek and put up three radio towers around the whole TriMet system map.
It's a drop in her pocket. I want to get with the local 29 Ironworkers Union. You can get that up in the air for college radio.
God forbid natural disasters. The apocalypse is impending? No, man. I'm talking about, like, you know, there's volcanic activity and stuff like that and earthquakes. It seems to be same old Portland, but a little less densely populated with tents.
They get shuffled around. So, for instance, I'm pretty certain I've talked to some people right here. It's a pretty hot spot for drug use. Question for you, sir. We're trying to talk to the public.
and figure out their thoughts on the recriminalization of drugs out here in Portland. What was your name? I'm Jay. Jay. I'm convinced we've met before.
Jay. My name's Tyler Jay. Good to meet you.
Jay, what are you shooting up here? Is Zyla's in? No.
No? They're on fashion. Like we met. I'm convinced I literally met you somewhere around here like 10 months ago.
Yeah, September when I was out there in front of Subway. Okay. I was f***ing real sick.
As a matter of fact, a couple days before I wound up going back to the hospital, and they'd taken a couple of my toes, and yeah. So, you know, it's recriminalization. It never should have been decriminalized to begin with. Okay. It gives, you know, look what happened.
When they did decriminalize it, they really didn't give it enough time to. They're just now getting these programs up and running. Got it.
You had COVID going on. They didn't have the basis to decriminalize and get what they wanted out of all that. This is ridiculous what's going on out here.
And you could see the. You can see the route the dope boy took from. Overdose to overdose down through the block.
You had one up here, you had one over here on this corner, and you had one down there on the bottom corner. Fire department didn't even know which one to get first. Do you carry Narcan with you out here? No, I don't believe in it.
Yeah? You know, they want to fix this problem? Stop giving these kids Narcan. Let them die? The problem will fix itself.
That's interesting. That's a pretty Darwinian way to look at it. Have you seen people die on these streets? In the last three years, I've seen well over... over 200 people that I know personally die from fentanyl overdose.
What do you think can be done to save lives out here? Stop these deaths? I don't know. I really don't.
Are harm reduction services handing out foil like they used to? No, they say they don't really have any resources for anybody. Ran out of money?
I don't know what their problem is. This plant actually was completely full of tents like last week. Where did it go?
I don't know. It seems like I'm looking at... familiar faces down there they don't disappear some of them obviously die but it seems like one spot to the next to the next a drag you know i kind of think that that uh oregon should follow in the footsteps of some of these other countries that they've actually uh decriminalized a lot of stuff portugal yeah portugal uh sweden you know some of those uh countries over there send a group of people over there to check that stuff out quit checking out out here on the street because everybody but he's just gonna Like this in circles chasing their tail.
Go over there and just check it out and see how things went. And we could learn some stuff from maybe some of those countries that were able to do that. I agree.
But before I go to Portugal, I want to first teleport to Amsterdam. You see, people from all over the world come to Amsterdam to do drugs and have a good time doing them. I'm mainly talking about weed, cocaine, LSD, and ecstasy. But in the 70s, they experienced a heroin epidemic.
The master is heroin. And virtually everyone you see here comes to buy, sell, or use. Nearby, junkies inject each other in broad daylight.
I've never seen anything that is as concentrated as this. I've never seen anything as open as this. The problem has become so bad that police officials and politicians admit privately the battle is lost. The city of Amsterdam is slowly moving away from a policy of prohibition to one of accommodation.
Leading them to adopt harm reduction in the 80s at the height of the crisis and were the first in the world to implement a safe needle and syringe exchange program. They were at the time the red-headed stepchild of drug policy in Europe, But now, many look to Amsterdam as an example of drug policy done right, including a lot of Portland activists that fought for the decriminalization of drugs in the first place. Before I talk with some of the experts who explain their laws and why they believe they work, what do the locals here think about these laws, drug use, and if there are real problems with drug addiction and homelessness like you see in the States? Do you think they should sell heroin at coffee shops?
It's a little bit too far, I think. What do you think? I think everything from... You know marijuana, cocaine, sometimes.
In like places where you can control it, you know? Okay. Yeah. Use molly and cocaine. Is it pretty easy to get your hands on out here?
Uh, personally I wouldn't know, but uh... I'm not a fed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would never, I would never, you know. Oh, actually?
Oh yeah, mostly, mostly, mostly. Yeah, yeah. Actually? Despite Amsterdam being a known drug tourism hub with over 160 plus coffee shops, basically little weed dispensaries, it's important to realize that all drugs, including even weed, are illegal.
Yet possession of less than five grams of ganja was decriminalized as of 1976, and the use of other drugs like cocaine, hash, and magic mushrooms and ecstasy is mostly tolerated and if you get caught by the police they can confiscate them but you won't get fined as long as it's in small amounts basically recreational use warrants a slap on the wrist if that it's illegal but people do it and no one cares on top of that amsterdam also has drug testing labs where you can test the purity of the drugs you want to use to have a good time and get the results instantly did you come here to use drugs uh yes so like molly yes anything else No, it was only... Volley? Yes. Did you like it?
No, but because I am a runner. But to try is okay, but in my opinion... It's bad. Are you on Molly right now?
Yes, yes, yes. Oh, shit. Yet despite Amsterdam's extremely accepted relationship of drugs, you'd be hard-pressed to find a drug addict living in a tent outside, smoking fentanyl or heroin on the street.
the streets like you would in the US. But why? I would say I don't do drugs and I don't think they should be legal. Yeah, me as well actually.
For me I think it's bad, especially for like the people that want to come here and like enjoy Amsterdam. People just hide out of their minds out here? Yeah, exactly. Okay, ruins the purity of the experience out here a little bit? Okay, what about you man?
For me it's fine actually, but as I said before, actually it's not my opinion. I don't support that, but we also support freedom. Do you need water?
No, no, no. Okay, you're good. That's your high right? now yes I know that yes now I who's jam jam yesterday today I don't move so I am okay and it's not it's not it's not very very strong the fact. Hey, well it's been a pleasure speaking with you.
I want to give you a fist bump. Good to meet you. Ciao, thank you.
All right, ciao, see you. We have a mayor right now who wants to decriminalize soft drugs, marijuana. marijuana, cocaine, party drugs essentially.
I think there's a lot of logistics that need to be figured out with decriminalizing them. Why do you think the US has such severe drug problems compared to the Netherlands or Amsterdam in this case? Maybe a mentality of, you know, a war against versus working with people here. Sure.
I don't have a problem with the drugs. Okay. Everything can be legal, it's my opinion. Do you guys have any big drug problems here in the Netherlands?
I don't think so. Maybe there is in some places. there is a little bit more problems than in other places.
It's very clean, very few people seem to be on the streets dying. We'll start off with what drugs, if any, do you think should be legal? Antibiotics, mild painkillers, muscle relaxants, antihypertensives. Maybe, I mean some of them definitely should be legal, but not all of them. Maybe light drugs like weed or I don't know.
Mushrooms. Mushrooms, yeah or something. What are your thoughts on let's say heroin? It should be illegal I think because it destroys people's lives.
Most cardiac meds, anti-seizure meds, insulin. Oh wow, alright, you got a full list. I'm a nurse. Okay.
Let's talk about, I guess, Oxycontin, Fentanyl. Those, I mean, those are medically... Hot.
They're narcotics. Would I want them legalized? They are legal in the U.S. for the prescription. I would assume it's the same here. Let's say it was legal, regulated, safe.
Would that be better for a society or group of people that already is addicted to it and dying off of it? It is a paramedic. Fentanyl should never be legalized.
It's a killer. Now, marijuana? Yes.
What about fentanyl? Fentanyl. I don't really know what this is. Okay, that's crazy.
Fentanyl. I don't even know what that is, the bell. Really? Where are you guys from?
The UK. Leeds. And you guys are high right now?
Yep, absolutely. Okay, on weed? Yep.
Do you guys think anything harder than weed should be legal? Like what though? Like heroin? I'd say like coke, heroin, ecstasy. No, not coke because coke's like aggressive, gets you like aggressive in it.
Maybe psychedelics. Yeah. I think anti-abortion stuff has shown that yes, you can ban things, but banning it only pushes it underground and makes it more expensive and more dangerous.
Let me ask you this then. Should fentanyl be legal without a prescription, let's say? I'm going to say no. Take the head off the snake.
And you have to go to the source where it's coming from and get rid of the source. So obliterate the cartel, obliterate these manufacturing plants. That would be wonderful if we could. Do you guys have any drug problems here in Amsterdam? Yeah.
What have you seen? Lots of sh**. Yeah?
Especially the tourists. A lot of drug tourism? Yeah.
What do they do here? Nothing. Just do drugs. They don't spend money on good food.
Only on drugs. I see. Do you guys think most recreational drugs that aren't, let's say heroin or... Maybe even coke should be legalized? No.
No. You think ecstasy should be legal? I just did it once, twice, it was good but... I personally have a friend who... It starts like this, once per week, and then he was literally every day or every two days...
Oh shoot! He lost control. In just two, three months he became an addict.
In the beginning I said, no, everybody can be safe from that, but then... I... When the times pass and you see the reactions, the excuses, the eyes. What drugs do you think should be legal, if any? Should be legal, mushrooms and marijuana.
Marijuana, that's it. Anything harder than that? I don't think so. Would you ever do cocaine? No, that's madness.
Would you ever do molly? No. The best solution for all these problems is to allow people more or less to use. But the problem is...
became bigger and bigger. It's going to be a health issue, and not only in Amsterdam. I don't want to put you in a spot here. I'm not a Fed either. Where do people get their drugs if they're not buying off the streets out here?
Other people. I personally, I don't really do. I don't do drugs.
I don't do drugs. I believe you. I'm against drugs.
Congratulations Chris. It's a radio you muppet. I know people who do obviously and you just get people's phone numbers, social medias. I've seen like the telegram group chats too. Yeah.
With the Bitcoin. I don't know if that's a scam but. Yeah. There's ways.
Yeah. Well if you, this is the American market then give people safe needles. Okay. For free.
Condoms for free. Abortion for free. What drugs do you think should be legal? if any.
I think they have it, they've done well with the legalization of cannabis here, how you can only smoke it in certain places and, you know, you're not allowed to smoke it out in public, that sort of thing. Do you think the coffee shops are a pretty good idea? I think they're a good idea because it sort of provides a safe place to do them and so you're not, you know, getting them from bodgy people.
I think other drugs, when you start going into harder stuff, can start to get a bit dangerous. I think they've hit the nail on the head here, to be honest, with, you know, the rules and the laws around drugs. Who are you?
you here during the heroin crisis in the 70s? I was. I was in the small street there, Dam Street. There was a student bar.
I was a bouncer there. I had to fight the junkies. So, and they came inside our pub, and then they asked for a coffee, and then you wait five minutes, and so...
So they went to the toilet and the spoon of the coffee was gone. So you knew what was going on. Of course.
I've been attacked by them with knives. You were pretty buff back then? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did the linebacker tackle them or what? No, I grabbed them, lift them up. I walked them out and put them on the street.
What do you think solved the heroin crisis back then? Why don't I see many drug addicts on the streets out here today? Well, we got the special needles and places where they can safely inject. I see.
I think that if you have replacement things which also give you a nice boost, you... can easily quit the heavy ones, you know? And also the...
Methadone, Suboxone. Methadone is the word I was looking for. I think all in all, many countries followed the Dutch approach.
What advice do you have for the United States to reduce the opioid overdose deaths? Give everybody who is in jail for weed, you know, for soft drugs, freedom again, immediately. The country with 330 million people walking around, you know, the big tent cities around California, in California like Los Angeles, like...
Like people sleeping on the streets. What the f***? You know? We got more weed. Weed, weed, weed, weed, weed, weed, weed.
Off to the red light district we go. More wisdom shall be found. And while I was trying to interview some people in the red light district, I walked up to this dude. He asked me if I wanted to buy some ecstasy. So I asked him if I could interview him.
He saw the camera and began freaking out. Hey, don't play. I tell you already.
How we doing? What do you got for sale? MDMA?
I tell you, b****. Oh, my God. Oh You man All right, so we got this drug dealer trying to sell me MDMA he's tweaking on me right now And he kicked me like a little soccer player Hey, f*** you, man.
Alright, we're getting out of here. Uber tried to sell me some ecstasy. I denied.
I can't believe he kicked me. So in search of confirming or denying the reality that drug addicts living on the streets using hard drugs in public here in Amsterdam was near impossible, I pulled up to what used to be the drug epicenter of Amsterdam in the 70s and 80s that used to be rampant with drug use and crime. We're in the Ziebeich neighborhood in the 70s. This place was the epicenter of the heroin crisis. The big open-air drug market was right here.
Now, not the case. This place is clean, freshly gentrified, nice, decent, solid neighborhood, which goes to show a neighborhood can, in fact, be recovered. Think of the skid rows, the tenderloins out there. It's not over. It's nice out here.
But why? What did they do to fix it? How was it saved?
So I met up with Dennis Yeah, director of MDHG, an organization committed to helping drug users, homeless people, and is pushing for the legalization of all drugs. One of your guys'mission statements is to decriminalize most drugs in Netherlands or what? Well, the idea is legalize all drugs. Okay. Prohibition isn't working.
With every product you have, whether it's legal or it's illegal, you have to deal with production, distribution, and consumption. And drugs have always been there. It's a fact of life that people use drugs.
Even animals use drugs. With that being said, I want to zoom us back in time to the 80s and talk about the heroin crisis here in Amsterdam. Tell me, how did Amsterdam... come to this heroin crisis?
Yeah, I was in the 70s. First of all, Amsterdam was the middle of the earth at the time. A lot of hippies went to Amsterdam.
There was already a lot of experimentation with drugs, with LSD, with cannabis, with hash and stuff like that. Some of the main causes are that drugs coming to New York from China through Masaya and that chain was shut down and they moved it to Amsterdam. At the time, the Suriname became became independent. In former times it was a colony of the Netherlands. A lot of Suriname people came to the Netherlands because they could get a passport but didn't get the proper job.
We had American soldiers who came back from Vietnam and started traveling around Europe and finding a place in Amsterdam. So all these different factors came together and get out of that situation. People cry out for help, start helping them.
And how did you guys do that in the 70s? First of all, of course, Of course it was illegal, but we as an organization didn't reach out to people thinking, oh, you're doing something illegal, so we're going to punish you or stuff like that. No, we want to help you.
I've seen a lot of people being addicted to heroin or base coke for 20, 25 years. Never, ever going to quit. And we started helping them with their financial problems, with psychiatric problems, with housing. Great start. Make sure people can sleep inside and have their own place.
And then they had all this together and then they started figuring out why do I even use drugs? But we started thinking about the drug markets themselves. One of the things of course was that we started with the coffee shops. Separating cannabis from all the different drug market was a very good thing to do.
But we already started with the coffee shops themselves, having legal distribution points for cannabis. making the consumption legal. People who want to experiment with drugs Already got the message from you know there's a big difference between heroin and cannabis so if you want to experiment with drugs and you go to a coffee shop, people who were shooting heroin at the time they shared their needles.
At that time hepatitis B was a big problem. Exchanging the needles people would get hepatitis B. Started a program in which people can use get easy access to needles so they didn't have to exchange that anymore. Dennis's core belief is that the heroin was available regardless.
Therefore, giving it to those who are going to use it no matter what in a legally and regulated way would then undercut and destroy the black markets, decrease profit incentive for the dealers, and cause users to avoid using potentially dirty, laced heroin sold on the streets. I met up with Hao from Legalize, who believes legalizing heroin and giving it to the addicts for free was an obvious choice for Amsterdam. And what do you do here? I do many things in the realm of drug policy here. Okay.
Uh, you... should be said many of them died. They all stopped injecting Because we found out that smoking is much better for your health than injecting it And we did give them spleen syringes Which was a great way to contact them And then tell them like, hey, how are you doing?
Do you think if they were forced into some forcible rehabilitation They would have survived? We saw most people die after they came out of prison You can't keep them in prison for their whole life For consuming something that they want How did they die? It does happen that if people come out of jail They overdose really quick. They just are excited to get back to the drug and get straight into it? Yeah, they open those quite quickly and they go deeper than they've ever been.
From there we started with the experiments together with Switzerland to give away free heroin and due to its success it's now a full program that you just saw the front door on. So tell me about Housing First. What is Housing First and do you think it's a good or bad thing?
Housing First is a great thing. I think if you don't have a house then you live a very bad situation, very unhealthy. Do you believe someone addicted to heroin, let's say, could maintain a home if it were given to them. So that's not in conflict with the drug addiction or the habit.
That's a common belief in the States, at least. I really wonder why that is. The idea of not giving these people free housing, food, and whatever else they needed was entirely foreign to the Dutch mind.
For Amsterdam, hardcore drug addiction was a health problem and not so much an act of criminality or laziness like how many view it in the United States. One thing you need to understand about drug crisis is... is that the people who come to the MDAG, for example, they have a lot of problems. About 90 to 95% of the people who come to us use the drug as a form of self-medication. It's because of sexual abuse.
Fathers who have been beating them up, working in the system as a child already, in youth care. Those are the problems. you need to do something with. When you're dealing with a drug crisis, it's not the drug crisis, it's the people's crisis.
Do you think involuntary rehabilitation or forced rehabilitation is a solution to someone addicted to a hard drug on the streets? No, it doesn't work. Your target should be getting people a good life. We have a lot of members who are still using drugs on a very regular basis and they lead a good life and the drug use helps them.
To have an ordinary life. I think that should be your target. And you can see if you help people get a better life, then the drug problems will go down.
One of the reasons why people don't improve their situation is because nobody... Nobody's ever nice to you. And if nobody's ever nice to you, why do you want to walk the path with those people? I've had people crying just because they went into us and said, you're doing nice to me.
Human kindness is lacking a lot. of these organizations and governments and you're tearing up a little bit it's getting emotional on me. Yes of course. You think people are leaving people behind when it comes to drug use? People see these drug users and say these people are trash and they don't deserve help?
Yeah. That's the word junk. Junkie right? They call people junk.
These people have been through such a lot while they started self-medication and then as a system we react with punishment and spitting at them and stuff like that. And then it's almost like it aggravates the drug problem. These people continue to look down upon them and they continue to self-medicate even harder. So what if I'm a drug consumer and I say, my answer and what I want is to use more drugs until I die.
Would there be a world where I'm involuntarily rehabilitated? You know, there's not a single person is the same. So it's quite difficult to oversee this situation.
So we will put a net. ...of safeguarding around this person and give him his dose of heroin or whatever he says he needs. With that he will be able to control his own problem and we will help him with that.
It's legally distributed by the municipality and the people who are in the program do that on a legal basis. In many cases these are people who have been... I've been addicted to heroin for a long long time. I've been trying to stop but that didn't work out. So now they can go to the municipality and get legal heroin twice a day.
This works great! What is this right here? We call this the heroin facility.
This is where people who have their habits of heroin consumption... Give them free heroin, medicinal grade heroin, and we give them like housing, we look what they need in their life. With that we tackle the whole opiate crisis that we had here in the 80s.
Three of these places existing... Only two of them also provide heroin and the third one also provides methadone. In the 80s when we started there were 15,000 people only in the night place where they gave it away.
And now there are only 15. So one five are just left of this group. Our average age of... The average age of an opiate consumer is now 54, which is bizarre.
And every five years, the average age goes up four years. And does that just mean the current drug addicts are still aging and still using heroin? There's not a new market for those heroin users? Hardly, no.
The program is such a big success that it almost collapses under its success. We need to keep that open because it does help. Problems if you close them down are much bigger because it's free. No one can come and... There's no profit incentive.
There's no profit incentive. Yeah. And that pushes people to go...
You go on the streets and sell coke and MDMA is what I see around the red light district. Yeah, if you want to buy fake drugs, there's powder. Okay.
Just do that. First of all, they got their life back together. By getting the heroin?
By getting the heroin. Because if you know you're getting your heroin, you don't have to chase heroin anymore. I see. And you know, okay, the rest of the day I don't have to steal things to get money to buy new heroin. They're not resorting to...
less than desirable behavior. They're not selling their bodies or something they don't want to do to get this shrug. Well, second of all, they get good heroin.
I'm not encouraging anyone to try heroin. Sure. Let's make that for sure. I get that.
But good, pure heroin isn't that... Bad as people think it is because the problem with heroin is it's not just heroin. It's mixed with all kinds of stuff.
If you have financial problems and chasing heroin, you don't have a refrigerator with good food. You don't go to sleep on a regular basis. So that's why we in Amsterdam have very, very few heroin users because it's not interesting to start selling it.
What are some lessons the United States can take from the Netherlands as it relates to drug policy? The best lesson would be let's work together on legalizing and regulating drugs instead of fighting drugs. Because when you're fighting drugs, you're fighting people.
And you're helping the corruption of the system. Because of the fentanyl crisis, there could become something good out of it. Namely, that you will find out that prohibition isn't working.
And you also destroy the criminal underground black market. I find what happened in Oregon mega interesting. I have not been there.
They're recriminalizing it. I hate that word. I am afraid that the recriminalization is due to...
to the fact that there has been made some really bad policy because yes if we would throw heroin for free just make a sign that heroin for free that would not work so we have this in a special program which is the SOPs the standard operating procedures are mega precise and you we have this a whole network of harm reduction social work everything around that in order to keep it safe we continuously are debating are we doing it right how could we do better etc etc and we are putting that in practice. What do you think they were missing in Portland? I heard some extra money went into harm reduction, but I think you should divert all your assets towards harm reduction.
Work against poverty and social inequity and things like that. People want to be part of the society and make them part of it. And of course, there are always people who can't work, who have a double diagnose, triple A, so help them out. And these people will always be there. And as a society, the quality of your society, I think, is based on how you treat the people who are.
Marginalized. And by criminalizing that and stigmatizing the use, do you think it only pushes people into the darker corners of society to use these drugs anyways? You ask me if I think that, but I think that's proven.
But while all of these drugs are still technically illegal if they are being used for non-medicinal purposes in Amsterdam, Portugal has gone balls to the wall and decriminalized all drugs across the entire country since 2001. So what does a country that's decriminalized drugs for the last 20 plus years look like compared to what I just saw in Portland? And more importantly, what did the locals here think about Portugal's unique drug policy? I headed to Portugal's capital city of Lisbon to find out. This is where my great-great-grandfather fled after hitting a man in the head with a rock. And my cousin also visited Portugal and got hit by a bus.
So there's some dark lore here. Ah, discriminalizar. Si. No, bad idea. Bad idea?
Why? Why? Drugs is prejudicial for...
Oh, drugs? You don't want drugs? What is your problem?
Today, today, today! Good or not? I think not. Many drugs here in Portugal or not?
Many, many. Big problem here? Yes, big problem.
Discriminalizing drugs here is a bad idea? Drugs? Drugs.
No, no, that's a bad idea. We don't like that in Portugal. We don't like it. No, we don't like it. Because?
bad in healthy and make you lose your mind okay so that is better for health man you ask you my idea okay okay gracias um and I wish we spoke Portuguese I think it's a good idea yeah yeah yeah for the users and the public yeah for everyone yeah what do you think bien or no legales see since a slug drogher they prefer in the streets okay no White wine and... Sashis. What do you prefer? White wine. No, it's a good idea.
Oh, good. Terrible idea. Very bad idea. Drugs are bad for your health, they can never be legalized, right? Oh, yo, there's our boy.
My friend. There he is. He's climbing buildings now.
To be fair, I've only seen the one guy who was climbing the tower earlier. Beyond that, I haven't seen... I've seen two people that are homeless.
on the streets, a massive major tourist area, I think that would be tough to find in the US. Do you have a bad idea? I think I have an idea. Yes? I have an idea.
Drugs are bad. We are young and as young people we can't take drugs. It spoils people's lives. Because depending on the drug, for me, it makes a lot of difference.
People will get addicted and for me, drugs are not good in any way. Neither to release nor not to release. Do you think people should go to jail for using drugs out here?
No, no, no. No? No.
That's too harsh? Yeah. It should be legalized, let's say.
I mean, why not? It doesn't endanger anyone, so why not? What about like fentanyl?
That's very bad. That's very bad. That shouldn't be legal. That's very dangerous for a little weed.
Pretty good. Yeah, yeah. What drugs are bad? Cocaine, crack, heroin, LSD. It seemed like the broader public here was surprisingly somewhat mixed.
in their opinion of decriminalizing anything beyond what they called soft drugs like weed, while at the same time not quick to think that jail time was a solution for hard drug use or addiction. So I met up with Dr. Hao Gulau, National Drug Coordinator for Portugal, who's credited as the architect for Portugal's drug policy established in 2000 that controversially decriminalized drug use and provided harm reduction and a more health-based strategy and approach to drug addiction. Places like Oregon and Vancouver looked at the work Dr. Hao did here in Portugal as inspiration for the work he did in Portugal. for decriminalizing drugs. But what led Dr. He to the conclusion that decriminalizing drugs would help?
And did cities like Portland miss anything in translation along the way? And cities like Portland and the US have modeled your guys'drug policy. You're the godfather of the drug policy a lot of people are following, right? I was part of the of a committee that was nominated by the government in back in the 90s to build the first national strategy that included decriminalizing criminalization, which is by far the most known component of that strategy.
But I must say that our strategy is far much more than that. What was going on here in Portugal that led you guys to take some unprecedented measures? If you agree, I'll tell you a little bit of a story. The drugs problems in Portugal exploded later than in most European countries. We were dealing with a colonial war and almost our young male population population was sent there to serve as soldiers, mostly against their will.
And a little bit like the Americans in Vietnam, drug use down there was tolerated or even incentivated. So most of those kids developed some habits of using substances and they came back after the revolution, they brought of course their habits. So we had an explosion on experimentation.
And Erwin became the leader of the revolution. very very popular. So in just a matter of a decade during the 80s we had a huge number of people injecting.
It was difficult to find a Portuguese family that had no problems related to drugs. We had a quite important number of overdoses. Criminality as well.
The way our society addressed those problems was mostly based in the idea that we were dealing with a health issue rather than a criminal one. We started still by the end of the 80s, during the 90s. We developed a quite solid network of treatment centres to address and to offer treatment to all those in need.
harm reduction responses as well, such as syringe and needle exchange, shelters. We decided to invite a group of people, a group of experts. We built a document, the first national strategy for the fight against drugs. That included some recommendations on the supply side, but mostly on the demand side. Prevention, treatment, harm reduction, reintegration.
of people. Everything based in the idea that we were dealing with a health issue and accordingly we proposed the decriminalization of use. So the strategy is from 99, the decriminalization was approved in 2000. Problematic user, an addicted person, you will probably be invited to join a treatment facility. The person will be evaluated by health personnel in order to identify the needs. Can they refuse?
Yes. Yes, yes you can. Let's say I would say like, I don't want any services, let me do my drugs. What if I said that to the court? The commissioner will say, okay, do as you wish, but please do not come here for the same reason in the next, let's say, six months, one year.
What if I did? We'll have to apply you some kind of penalty. Problematic use for addicted people, the penalty is never a fine. The work is mostly of motivating people.
What about if we get you an appointment for a... or a treatment center for next week. Most of the people accept. Meaning, let's say you're caught doing some heroin on the street, your heroin would get confiscated, and you would then show up to a meeting at the Commission for the Dissuasion of Drug Addiction.
You guys introduced this commission concept, so this is more or less an interview with what, a psychiatrist, a social worker, and an attorney? Yeah, it's normally, it happens in this room, actually. Okay.
It's for us to start the procedure, we need the police report. saying that someone was caught in the possession of an illicit substance for personal usage, regardless of what the substance is, from cannabis to heroin, cocaine, MDMA, whatever. And they will do a risk assessment to determine if that person should be considered a recreational user or a drug addict.
And if it's an high-risk situation, basically means a drug addict. I would like to stress out the proposal part. Because it's not mandatory.
It has to be voluntarily accepted by the person. So what if I come in here, this is maybe my third time at the commission, I continue to get caught using a drug, let's say, I'm deteriorating, maybe I've overdosed multiple times. died a few times, been brought back with some Narcam.
I said, I don't want any of your help. Leave me alone. What is your guys'next step?
Well, in those cases with Sling, we can apply sanctions. And normally in that particular case, although the case is... are individually assessed and individually decided.
So it's my understanding a lot of these people agree to help in some form, right? What percentage would you say agree to some form of rehabilitation or assistance getting back to their feet if it's a serious problem? I would say around 80%, 85% of the people that we suggest any sort of referral, they normally accept that referral.
Since it's non-mandatory, we have to do, we have to take the extra step to try and motivate or convince. the person that it can actually benefit them in any way that referral. The criminalizing only solves one problem, which is the criminal record problem.
But as a diversion scheme, you need not only inputs, which for us is the police report saying that someone was caught, but you also need to bear in mind the outputs. And the outputs is the suggestions for referrals that we do. And so for that, you need a structure like the dissuasion commission.
This is the complete package, I insist. the idea that decriminalization is just a part of it. One piece of the puzzle. One piece. All the pieces are on one side decriminalization with the dissuasion system, okay, and then we have prevention, treatment, harm reduction, reintegration of people, and supply reduction.
It's not a crime, it's a health crisis. That's the paradigm shift? Yes, that's it. This shift in perspective of viewing drug addiction as a health crisis rather than a criminal one in combination with the police, psychiatry, psychiatrists, social workers, working together rather than individually to help these drug addicts seems to work quite well. criminalizing drug use, providing harm reduction, restricting privileges if you refuse to receive treatment.
Portugal also has safe consumption sites where people can use drugs safely with the goal of preventing overdose deaths and open-air public drug use. I headed to Casal Ventoso, a rough area known for drug users and traffickers, to see how it works. Your first day you're going to Casal Ventoso. Why is that bad?
It's very bad. Oh, why? It's very dangerous. I have drugs...
The people sent drugs, have guns. Hi. Hi. Hi. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. Video for my family. And we're at a consumption site right here.
Yes. Let's check it out. We test substance in partnership with another association named Cosmic Care.
They come here and the clients that want to know what they are using have the chance to check the the drugs Okay, so safe testing. Heroin you go inside and crack cocaine you go inside, but if you want to smoke marijuana you can be there. Okay, wouldn't fentanyl?
No, because in Portugal we don't have fentanyl. Okay. At least yet. But... I don't like that last part.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's see what's up.
We are not allowed to bring any material from outside because we don't know if it's sterilized or not. We are going to sign this document. This document allows us to act in any... case of overdose or any case of... So it's a liability waiver?
It allows us to act, to give naloxone and all the procedures that are necessary to revert any overdose situations. So what's going on right here? The most used substance here are crack cocaine and heroin.
So they're watching me as I shoot up? Yes, yes and if you need help... Let's say I OD, would they be the one?
wants to come out? Yes. Avoid any kind of emergency situations, overdose deaths by overdose.
So the assumptions they're going to use already might as well use safely? Yes, they are going to use so it's better to use in a safe place with dignity, with a team that can act in any case of emergency. Yeah, you have two needles, all the material that you need to do a safer.
consumption everything I need everything I don't have to pay for it no nothing okay for example if they are going to use an amount that is higher than they used to to use we talk with them and educate them but not to do because I would say hey I'm looking to up my dosage today yeah can you guys monitor me a little bit more we can we can talk a little bit I can explain to you the risks that you are taking and we are prepared to act he's an educator i see yeah okay and he's a nurse all right so you guys go in there when let's say someone's ODing would you come out of this room and see what's going on yes yeah got it so safe injection safe smoking marijuana zone free everything to use yes how many people do you guys service per day roughly i have per day about 300 entries and space. Significant. Yeah. Is this a private public institution?
Is this funded by the government? What is this? Founded by the government. Okay. Eight percent and twenty percent by the city council of Lisbon.
Okay, so this is Lisbon investing in their community. We want to make sure our users are safe. Here they can take shower. Here they can socialize, they can watch TV, they can read a book, they can do activities, they can access the internet. Everything that we have.
have here is from donation so We have this donation and then we give back to our clients because 25% of our population is homeless right now and so it's very needed items for them. Okay. Yeah.
It's a full service stop here. Yes, because it's very important to give to them not only the access to the drug consumption rooms, but the other needs that they have. Do you think this consumption side is safe?
a lot of lives. Yeah. Yeah.
This is like the first door to go back to the system. Many of them do not have ID for example. It's not like they are not part of our society so give back to give us the chance to be closer.
them and understand their needs and try to work individually with them. Do you think that Portland for example was missing any ingredients to this recipe? I think there was not enough time in fact and secondly we try to take care of this person in all components of his life and to drive and to guide this this person through the system. We do not give him or her just a piece of paper with some phone numbers.
If you need help, just call this. I see. No, we take charge of these people. Well, I think they missed a few steps. Can you tell me those steps?
Well, one of them was the non-apprehension of the substance, for example. That gives the wrong message to everyone. You're saying someone that it's illegal to have this substance in their possession, but then when a police officer finds you with that, he doesn't take it from you.
So, does that make sense? No. I think the worst thing Oregon did was closing it down after two years. Interesting. Give it some time and you will need some evaluation, and you will need to eventually take a step back, to take two steps forward and so on.
So I think it was just too rash. And the fentanyl problem that you have in Oregon, it's not because... As a scapegoat. As an excuse for everything that was happening.
I see. And if you look into other states that didn't decriminalize, but that's the same situation going on. New York, California.
Exactly. If the same thing is happening in different places, but you don't have that same cause, it's probably not because it's not that thing that it's causing those things, right? So if I can say it was a triumph of politics over policy.
I see. It's what it is. It's one of the reasons why I think our system in Portugal actually worked, was because we were able to come up with a policy and leave the politics out of it. Is this something that any country could apply in some fashion? It could be done.
It's doable everywhere in the world. It might not be in the same way as we did, because the legal framework is different, the culture is different, the healthcare system is different, so you might have to adapt things, but it's doable anywhere in the world.