Transcript for:
Insights into Human Behavior by Chase Hughes

the fastest way to read a human being is to keep one question in your head it is today I'm talking to chase Hughes a US Government brainwashing and interrogation expert who spent 20 years in the military trained intelligence agencies later on became a neuroscientist and is regarded as the number one human behavior expert in the world there's a formula that I used to teach for actual brainwashing and it works the same to brainwash ourselves out of a behavior in this episode we dive into how to read anyone and cover their true motivations how to spot a lie and get them to reveal the truth how your personality shows up in the shape of your face a miracal compound that he takes to heal his brain and how to brainwash yourself before the world does it for you so put on your seat belts let's get into it being on the behavior panel you've looked at countless cases where you analyze human beings whether they're lying or not whether they've abducted or killed their own children yeah what's the most FAS or chilling case that you remember that you analyzed Aaron Cathy and that was the true embodiment of what a psychopath is and she had her parents murdered and her little brother who was a child and her boy she convinced her boyfriend to do all this and the boyfriend was not a psychopath no he I think he was just super suggestible and she knew how to pull he was just really really into her yeah and Dr Phil interviewed her and you could see those eyes and like just I never I've studied psychopathy for a long time but I never felt it until that video where you could just feel that that that's not a human being almost like there's no human in there that's that's a wild creature that has no that views a human being the same as throwing away a paper cup so you just see through the behavior of human beings little signs in their behavior in their facial expressions in their tone the words they use whether someone is a psychopath or whether someone's lying whether someone's concealing information what what did you see in her that gave that away and and I mean how could what are the what could we look for the the horrifying truth is that you can't can't spot a psychopath until after they've done something like that so you could have the 50 best behavior profilers in the world the top 50 and 99% we would be inaccurate in predicting who is a psychopath and who's not they're so hard to spot I teach a course for women on how to spot narcissists on a first date and that's a lot easier where if you ask him about an ex- relationship everything is someone else's fault they're always the victim narcissists will never have friends that are local they'll never have local people that are their friends they're always out of town I've got my friends are in another city uh so they they have a hard time maintaining relationship so you'll see a lot of that and that's like the number one Trend you'll see very similar things with Psychopaths and psychopaths are attracted to large cities uh in in my analysis uh Dr Robert ha has done most of the research on psychopaths in my analysis I think that cities are not just attracting Psychopaths I think that cities are helping to manufacture them in the book I have coming out I have a chapter in there called psychopath factories where I talk about the elements of a city and how it manufactures psychopathy there wasn't psychopathy before or at least not to the ex same extent and it breeds that it increases that I think it does let's talk about one thing that'll that'll make sense right away you've heard of the bystander effect right so for your listeners what this means is if I'm in a big city like New York or something like that and I get hurt and I'm laid on the ground and I'm wounded and I'm begging for help the more people that are around me the less likely I am to get help like people will take pictures they'll take videos they all assume that somebody else is going to call 911 but they'll stand there and watch so if I took this behavior in isolation and I told you a story about a person watching another person get stabbed and they stand there and watch they watch an interest you would call that person a psychopath when you get into a large city that behavior is common that is the bystander effect is the behavior of psychopaths so these us not relying on reputation and we're not in a tribe anymore our brains are not wired to handle millions of people they're wired to handle a tribe of about 150 so when we get to a big city we have no capacity for empathy for that many people so it gets shut off our brains say I can't do that and empathy goes away that's why we're we're in LA right now um we're driving around we just got off the freeway we shared a car here together people are bad drivers because there's no reputation you're never going to see those people again I don't have to rely on reputation that means I don't care what other people think so more psychopathy it's it's I think psychopathy is a spectrum and some people view it as a diagnosis of you have to fit this checklist of all these things to be a psychopath you can get close right which means that there's a line there's some kind of a spectrum there so what is it that you saw in that case that made it that specifically the most frightening chilling fascinating case for you the way that she recounted it was the same way that if I described picking up broccoli at at a grocery store is how she described all of that and the horror that happened she burned the house down uh afterwards or her boyfriend did but she uh made sure to rescue her dog and she was holding this dog while her boyfriend did all this and you could see Zero emotion on her face and you could see these little defense mechanisms she's a teen I think at the time uh these little defense mechanisms that she'd built throughout her life of looking innocent at Dr Phil with these little innocent eyes eyes and knowing that her looking like an innocent little girl was a learned deceptive calculated behavior is is horrifying to me wow so Psychopaths you can't spot them because they're so good at imitating certain behaviors they're very good at it wow but one of the one of the best ways to start and I'm never going to say like here's the list on how to do that because if anyone tells you they're like here's the way to spot a psychopath they're full of it um but you can start spotting a psychopath by looking at a person's face and seeing if they mirror your Expressions if I'm saying something exciting and that's cool see how your eyebrows just went up right yeah that's called an eyebrow flash reflex I'm not a psychopath that's a well as far as you know so if if I'm saying something sad like my aunt just got foot in the hospital or something like that and you see somebody's face kind of fall a little bit you're seeing a mirrored emotion other people's face sometimes Psychopaths don't know how to react so you'll either see a lack of affect where their their face has no reaction to it or you're going to see an inappropriate response so they'll smile on accident because they're trying to fake an expression if I want to tell you let me put you in the mind of a psychopath really quick and this is a story from Dr hair so I want you to imagine you live in a big city and you go down and you say you know I'm going to go get some fried chicken and I walk down and it's two blocks away and you're walking to the fried chicken place and you're walking by a car accident and a mom is bleeding out of her head she's holding her infant that's dying in her arms it would it would make anybody cry you know like it it's horrifying just me even talking about the simulated situation is been making me emotional but you walk by the situ ation and you stare at it for about a minute or two minutes you look at the people around and in your head you're going fried chicken that's it then you go pick up your Fried Chicken you go home and you stare at your face in the mirror going like this trying to mimic all the facial expressions that you just saw from the crowd that was observing this accident that's is so freaky yeah that is a movie scene you just described if anyone if there's any director out there who want to make a video about a movie about a psychopath this is the scene that you start with that's what you need yeah wow so I'm not really afraid of psychopaths in my life I've never encountered one oh yeah you have I probably have the what's the percentage I'm not sure what the percentage is but but we've all encountered some met I've never been affected by them to the point where I feel like oh I need to learn about it right however like anyone listening I have intimate relationships business Partnerships people I do business with people I get close to family members right what are some of the things that we can do to spot certain patterns in them that we should be aware of or like how can we get a quick read on someone not not for psychopathy right for anything to realize whether they're trustworthy whether they're telling the truth whether they they're authentic the fastest way to read a human being number one way is to keep one question in your head it is what does this person want me to feel about them and what do they want me to notice number one so what do they want me to notice about them and that's going to show you the beginnings of understanding the mask that people wear because everyone wears some kind of a mask and I'm not talking about a covid mask but I'm talking about like a Persona that I put on to the world and the way that I teach this to Military and government is the mask is made up of the things that this person built to conceal shame to conceal and shame is what we put on when we feel like we're not enough yeah shame is uh I shouldn't have done that I'm a bad person for doing that I need to hide it and not agreeing with something in our past or something that we're ashamed of and shame today is institutionalized it's it's a public weapon to use shame you could just log into Twitter and you'll see it in 30 seconds you'll see how shame is being weaponized so shame creates cognitive dissonance which is a mental discomfort mental discomfort says I don't want to be this uncomfortable in front of people that creates a mask so we wear these personas and these masks to cover up something so if you see somebody 90% 99% of us have a mask and this is the population of Earth how thin it is how thick it is that's what changes and what the mask is made of so if I'm seeing somebody Who's acting like he's posturing all the time he's yelling he's uh like just puffing his chest out the mask is usually the opposite of what it's concealing so I'm seeing a fearful little boy that's afraid of being hurt a Chihuahua yeah I'm seeing a Chihuahua that's barking and if I bark enough no one's going to hurt me and that's what I'm really seeing there that's what a mask is and then I guess another factor is how open or vulnerable are there are they with just revealing that they do wear a mask because I think some people they're just like yeah I do wear a mask yeah and this is my mask yeah and if if somebody's willing to talk about it and and be open about it and the second thing that I'm looking for is somebody's level of self-control every time so what does their mask look like what do what do they want me to believe so when I was uh raising my kids they were seven 8 N9 years old we'd pull up to a stoplight and there'd be a car in front of us covered in bumper stickers I would tell my son or my daughter what do you think those bumper stickers are trying to say if they had a voice and it would be like I did yosimite and there's a marathon thing and like I go fishing and like all kinds of crazy stuff and my daughter uh her name's Charlotte she would go well I'm adventurous I said all right keep going keep going what what does that mean to other people though uh it means that you can trust me okay what else it means I'm fun okay what else it means I'm uh I I'm a good friend what else I need friends what does that mean I'm lonely and like the you see so much going on and that's just one data point and I'm not saying that that's what that means every time mhm but if you start going down this Rabbit Hole of understanding human behavior the better you get at understanding humans the more that you're going to see loneliness shame and suffering it's every human being so the way that I uh deal with loneliness conceal shame and kind of anesthetize myself from suffering or equal human behavior what are some other common masks that you see you have the puffing out the chest you have the oh look I'm so fun yeah I'm friendly and fun be my friend I don't want to be alone what else is there there's a lot uh and there's the let's call it a porcupine so the porcupine is anybody that gets close uh needs to be reminded that this this is too close I don't want anybody in my intimate space so my my mask is I need to keep people away and it's different than the Chihuahua because I'll let people get close I'm not barking all the time they only get hurt when they get close to me mhm so that's another great mask and I I think there's different ways that we wear our masks and another mask is the let's call it a baby or a puppy like I I deal with Conflict by rolling over and looking innocent I'm I'm kind of using innocence as a way to do things and if you want to understand human behavior I'll give you the most this is the most perfect formula that you will ever get as far as I'm concerned so this is my opinion here's the most perfect formula for human behavior that I think will ever explain a human being I want to find out how this person reacts to conflict and how they make friends and how they socialize because every human being is a product of how when they were eight or nine years old how they earned friends gained rewards and kept themselves safe so what did I do at eight or nine years old to be safe all of those three well we have a tri we have something called a childhood development triangle maybe you could throw it up on the screen but what did I do to earn friends earn rewards and sometimes rewards are recognition if you grew up in a really bad environment sometimes the reward was water or food uh for a kid and then the third is what did I do to feel safe and those little behaviors that we memorize at eight or nine years old without us ever knowing we carry that into adulthood so I'm seeing childhood behaviors in every adult I'm seeing how they deal with conflict that's what worked at eight or nine and I just say eight or nine is a random number but in the in those formative developmental years so there's who do they want me to think what what do they want me to think about them uhuh and then what was the second thing again want me to notice what do they want me to notice level of self-control level of self-control what does that mean so I will look at somebody and and measure their level of discipline and you need no training for this so if you and I were seated at in the middle of an airport together and I said show me somebody who has a lot of discipline in their life you could see a high degree of self-control you'd be able to spot somebody anybody listening right now uh will be able to spot somebody with discipline and that's one of the first things I look at somebody's degree of self-control and I know that instantly even if they're a stranger they'll be more predictable in a good way like they're more likely to be trustworthy because they already discipline themselves they have self-control so if I know that I'm I'm getting into a business relationship or someone something with somebody that has self-control problems um and you may see this uh some people might think that that's somebody being overweight and they might have some self-control issues um then I'm just a little more cautious it's not that I'm not going to do it it's just I know to be a little cautious about any indicators of low self-control so if you're looking for a business partner somebody who's fit looks healthy takes care of themselves I mean it seems obvious right yeah but I think it's easy to overlook that I guess it's the same thing with an intimate partner right yeah and one of the fastest ways to estimate this for for ourselves is one of the ways that I ask my clients on a survey one of the questions on my client surveys is what would a stranger rate my diet on a 1 to 10 scale just by looking at me from 10 yards away how would a stranger rate what I eat every day is it good or bad and that's a pretty good way to to start that off and just thinking about it in my own life or your own life is what kind of self-control am I projecting to the world mhm what's your read on on my mask uh your mask is I need to be harmless and so you have more of a puppy mask and that's how you dealt with Conflict at the age of eight or nine is I'm going to be more and more innocent and I'm going to use innocence to solve this problem I'm going to stay out of conflict if I can kind of just be nice and kind let's just everybody become friends with each other really quick as fast as possible mhm yes I think that's very accurate one of the things we talked about yesterday as well MH how do I get out of that because I have a side of me that's when that comes out you do not want to get in my way right yeah and I'm afraid of that pot MH but it it it comes out in moments where it's necessary but my first go-to is kind how would you approach something like that somebody notices their mask whatever it might be I you need to get in touch with whatever the opposite of that mask is so for yours it would be becoming harmful and I am not a violent person would you agree like I'm I'm a pretty chill dude MH uh but I am better at violence than probably most people that you know so I'm excellent at violence that does not make me uh harmless it makes me Do no harm so I I think that once you get familiar and intimately familiar with whatever the opposite of the mask that we wear is we get to a point where we no longer need the mask to cover things up it's so fascinating because as you're talking about this I feel like with certain people I am humble gentle yeah whereas I think there's a bunch of people and I told you this before in the previous episode there's a lot of people who found me intimidating and when I'm around them they're just you can just sense that and I'm finding myself being gentle on purpose to make them comfortable yeah so I guess we can have multiple masks depending on who we're interacting with right yeah yeah but I think that that's the same mask though okay I need to I need to become softer so that they can get softer I soften to solve problems and that's kind of what that is like I'm I'm going to get softer and for somebody that wears that mask on a regular basis they're going to say well yeah that's how we solve problems like I'm not going to be a dick because they see me not wearing this mask means it's I'm the opposite of this not a spectrum they view like if I don't do this it's the opposite I have to be a dick does that make sense yeah but there's a way to deal with conflict in a very direct way and very confident uh dealing with it and and it's not a dick you know what I mean so it sounds like if you're a Chihuahua who's barking a lot and he's puffing your chest yeah you're actually a yeah I was I was until 24 I was a okay and if you're a puppy who's like oh look how nice I am then you're actually a dick just okay yeah yeah I mean that I think that uh I I have that side of me where I'm like very impatient I can be very impatient with people and I hit the brakes I'm like it's fine kindness you know but I have that like so and I guess embracing that making peace with that doc side yeah and that was I mean Carl Jung's spent his whole life talking about this and like getting familiar with our shadow and I think if we do that and we know ourselves I think that's the biggest problem for most people is that we don't fully know ourselves and I think I was like 26 before I realized who the hell I was and it took maybe another 10 years before I started really getting it my wife knew herself in like Middle School mhm like 10 times more more mature than I am uh and I think that's a the biggest problem for most people is that they don't know who they really are because and that means that someone else will will be able to tell youh and other people will be able to influence that if I'm not absolutely certain of what I am then somebody else can tell me what I am so if like you're certain that you drive a a Chevy truck and you come over and say oh that's that's a Honda Accord that's that's hilarious to me because I know it and we know other things in our life better than we know who we truly are as as a human being and I mean like The Faults the insecurities can I be okay with just knowing that about myself and then just live and maybe that's just getting out of the simulating uh life and just living a real one yeah and I guess people can actually see behind our masks very clearly some yeah I guess so because I feel like even when I'm playing nice people can still feel the undercurrent of he's doing this because he's actually impatient yeah and he's like come on let's go yeah and he's actually intense yeah and so I'm like why do people think I'm intense I'm trying so hard to but you know and the same thing is with with a with a guy who's beating his chest and everyone's like deep down that guy's really insecure like we all know it everybody knows it right and so I want to make this relevant for everyone listening instead of just making it about my everything's got to be about you that's what you're doing right now I love it that's true that's part of my mask again right it's like oh let's put the FOC I love putting the focus on other people as well that's what I notice in conversations as well like if somebody asks me a question to talk about myself I take it like this and then bring it right back to them you did that to me last night yes like two or three times yeah yeah I do that all time it's I think yeah I think it's a it's a protective it's a protective mechanism like I don't want you to look into me as much I want to figure out your stuff yeah because then I'm in control yeah um and I've seen that so many times in this this program that I did recently with it's like an emotional intelligence type of thing and you work with a bunch of people um but so it sounds like for people listening if they can figure out okay what what's my mask is it the puppy is it the beating the chest is it the porcupine get away from me don't mess with me um whichever other ones there are that I think people can figure it out we could throw the chart on the screen if you yeah I'll throw the chart on the on the screen I guess the the way to get out of that is to go the opposite embrace the opposite which is if you're a porcupine for example I know I know friends of mine who are like I don't give a what anyone thinks yeah and I know deep down actually really care right and they want other people to think they want everyone to think that they don't care yeah what they think which is like goes back to question number one is what do they want me to feel or what do they want me how do they want me to interpret their behavior the way they want me to interpret them is they don't need me yeah they're independent and and powerful and strong and don't need a lot of people in their life yes and those people I know deep down care the most and it's the most beautiful part about themselves yeah and they really care what other people think and sometimes I have a specific friend of mine where that it shows up and yeah I think what what's behind that is trust issues and it's I actually really care about what people think I want you to love me yeah but I'm trying so hard to be independent and so right I guess guess it is about what is my Masque what's the opposite of that what's the emotion that I don't want to I don't want to feel or that I don't want to want other people to perceive about me what would I be embarrassed if someone revealed at a party what would embarrass me most and that's what's under your mask so and that's the shame that's hiding right so if I was in the middle of a party and somebody threw something up on TV that would be what that would be what it is and I'm I don't want any body to think that once you find your mask that it's some kind of exit door there's no exit like we're programmed to do this we're programmed to wear masks as human beings MH that's one of the four things you talked about in one of your books the six-minute X-ray four truths about human beings and two of them were we all wear a mask and we all pretend to not wear one yeah so it's so true and the the fourth law is um everyone is a product of childhood suffering and childhood reward we're just children yeah what did we need to be loved be safe yeah be liked and I I I think up until I was probably 35 and this is embarrassing to say but I was a pure unadulterated ego addict absolutely addicted to my ego how I looked to the point where I I started deliberately destroying um the clothing that I thought was really cool looking and stuff and I would wear stuff that was to baggy for a little while and I did everything I could until I found my first psychedelic journey and like just unzipping and stepping out of that that ego was like whoa none of this matters all right none of this matters there goes the monetization of this video anyways let's talk psychic okay let's do [Music] it my bank account just went what if we uh say this video is sponsored by uh exactly Yeah by Nature um yeah I definitely want to get into psychedelics um because it's I mean it's a huge part of I guess your journey right uh and what part um and I'm fascinated by it I want to put a pin in that and close the loop on the whole idea of what can we look for in other people when we engage in business in Intimate Relationships in anything like that what are the key characteristics you look for one of the things you mentioned was self-control mhm that's a good sign what is another sign that I can trust this human being they have solid character like is it like you talk for example you talk about suggestibility you can tell whether someone's suggestible or not is that a good thing agreeableness is that a good thing is it a bad thing um social skill like can they handle conflict well do they know how to kind of deescalate conflict without a whole lot of problem MH the one big one that I look for and if if it's a business partner is do they are they interested in other people like do they actually ask questions or or do they view Life as a transactional process and if it's a transactional person I don't want them anywhere near me I don't even want them knowing my address so I will I will if especially if it's business I I do not want anybody that's a transactional relationship person because they will view my clients as little ATMs numbers and I on screen yeah it's disgusting to me and I invited my clients to my wedding and they met my parents and and I was like I'm challenge you like I talk about like do I live off camera the same way that I talk about online this in my because I think most gurus don't I think the like and I hate that word but I think people who train in self-development and confidence let's do this morning routine I don't think they do that and I think that's one of the biggest problems is that if you're out there saying you need you need to wake up at 4:00 A.M and you're not doing it uh that shows so our we're not all body language experts and but the lower part of our brain is a body language expert it's reading behavior all day every single day and it's very good at it the problem is that the lower part of your brain cannot speak English it has no language comprehension whatsoever so it can't tell you what's going on it speaks feelings though so it gives that little feeling in your stomach like something's not right something doesn't add up here so one of the first things I teach to all the clients that are going through my like a VIP thing that I've got going on it's called graduate school is you are in the business of manufacturing gut feelings in other human beings you're making gut feelings in other people all day every day on accident and now it's time to learn how to do this on purpose and you go into the bathroom and you try to imitate yeah that's going to stick in your head for a while oh God that's a chilling image horrifying yeah yeah um how do you know whether someone's transactional what are the telltell signs how do they respond uh after an evening out like do they send a text the next day and say hey thanks for that or are you seeing just like data like or they only want to know data like what time are we meeting next or what time is this going to happen and you get into a conversation with them and they let's say you get into a one hour talk with them on Zoom or something and the the entire talk is business numbers strategies not uh where you from do you have kids you know how is everybody is everybody doing okay there like are they connecting with a human or are they connecting for some kind of Bank transaction MH and it's pretty obvious to see pretty quickly if somebody's a real human or not a real human yeah and I want only those kind of people in in my company like if anyone talks to my sales people my sales staff nicest human beings in the world and they care about people they they follow up with you for years afterwards asking about your kids and this is not some sop that I wrote that's just the type of people that I hired you know because they're good human beings yeah I could see a lot of people sending the follow-up text the next day now because they like oh I learned this somewhere to not be transactional um so that's for business partner yeah what about a a close friend or an intimate partner what are some of the things that you the traits that you would look for that give the chase stamp of approval at least at least a good indicator I green flags if I'm looking for a partner I am married by the way but if I am looking for a partner number one thing above everything else is the degree of artificiality that that person is comfortable with so if I see someone and they're getting their dopamine from likes on Instagram I will never compete with that even if we're in a relationship that that addiction is still going to be there and they're living this kind of artificial life on Instagram they're and they make YouTube videos and their personality is fake their background is fake they they clean up just the little area of their house or like the video is going to be M uh and everything on Instagram is curated and perfect I know that that person is extremely comfortable with artificiality they're they're living in a simulation literally mhm they're simulating it I guess they just wear a thick mask yeah and not just online but probably shows up in real life as well big time yeah and how can you tell whether someone took their mask off is it just a feeling is it just how do you know they wear a mask uh when somebody is comfortable talking about like oh man I was really embarrassed by that instead of in it or you know wow that was an uncomfortable silence I I felt a little anxiety when we had that just openly talking about things that most people would normally hide you mentioned yesterday two questions you would ask someone what were they number one on a scale from 1 to 10 how authentic would you rate yourself yeah to be and the least authentic people are going to say nine or 10 yes what if they say three or four yeah if they say say three or four and you say well why would you rate yourself out three or four and they're like well I mean when I'm when I'm really anxious in public I'll put a suit jacket on and make myself feel more important or I'll I'll get really nervous if I'm on camera and and somebody's filming me I don't take pictures very well little self-conscious that's an authentic person MH because an authentic person never feels really authentic because they are open about all the ways that they are inauthentic which means they're comfor level with inauthenticity is low yes they're aware of the mask and they're willing to talk about it yeah and so anyone who says 10 I I don't wear a mask yeah either they they're so unself-aware that they actually believe they don't wear a mask or they're the Daly Lama or they're the Daly Lama or they know they're wearing a mask but they're so inauthentic that they're not even willing to admit it yeah right like there's a part of them that know know like oh yeah and they just let me fast forward this video yes second question you asked someone this was specifically for meeting women yeah you remember the second question yeah I want you to say it though because I'm I'm my I'll never say anything on a podcast I wouldn't want my mom to hear okay so Chase didn't say this this is just what I suggested as a second question would would be if you're meeting a a woman as a man you ask her do you fought this is and again this is not the opening line This is as a joke oh that's why that didn't work in the middle of the conversation yeah I'm sorry instructions unclear yeah so just that question alone uh if it's presented in a fun way and you're a confident person and you ask it kind of in a joking way the response to that question is going to be so profoundly revealing of how authentic that person is and how fun they are you'll you'll get an instant measurement of like the fun level and the authenticity at the exact same time yeah what would be a question for women to ask men uh that reveals authentic that does the same thing yeah it's like a funny question because obviously men are disgusting and they of course they've well women are more likely to dig right and ask about someone's family and things like that MH so for women the number one question that a woman can ask a guy is what's the biggest thing you learned about yourself through through like the last few relationships you had and you'll hear a lot of people say well I learned not to trust people because this girl was a or you know she some girl cheated on me and I learned that I should never do X Y and Z because of this and it's always even all the stuff they learned about themselves is somebody else's fault MH the second thing that they're going to do is what I learned about myself is that I am strong enough and I deserve more and like then they'll start inflating themselves so the authentic person will say whoa I had this relationship I realized that I was not strong enough to do X or I had insecurities around this that question alone what is the biggest thing you learned about yourself if someone has a mask on that's the perfect opportunity for me to show you how powerful my mask is MH it's also the perfect opportunity for an authentic person to to Really genuinely give you an answer yeah great I love that to stay on the topic of influence reading people yeah what are some of the things you use day-to-day to get an outcome that you want to get someone to reveal information like what are some of the things that people could use right away if they wanted to leave with something that they yeah just want to use right now there's a tactic that uh all intelligence operatives learn and it's called elicitation I just burped really big you can leave it in yes I will um elicitation was invented by this guy named John Nolan or invented discovered uh written about whatever uh and his book uh business secrets and you can't find it anymore unless you get a used copy on eBay but you use statements instead of questions to get the most powerful information from other people when a person's being asked a question it raises is a a little door in the brain that says I need to be careful about the answer if you're responding to a statement your brain does not have that little security guard that comes out and so as a light example let's just imagine you and me took an Uber to get here and let's imagine you and me get we're going to take an Uber back after this we get into that Uber and I say you I just read online that Uber drivers were rated the number one job satisfaction of all the jobs in the country and I just said a statement right and he's going to turn turn around and go what where where did you see this so that starts a conversation and then he says no it's really bad you know I do this this and they take the money and this and this and then I do disbelief this is another technique disbelief says no way there's no way that company would treat you like that he goes oh yeah you will never guess what happened just a couple weeks ago and then he just kind of goes into this deep story that he would never tell another client what who does he tell these stories to friends I've made his brain start behaving in friend mode and I haven't even asked any questions yet and then let's say he goes into a story and then I say you know my neighbor's daughter uh started driving for Uber and she said she saw the wildest things happen in her back seat and then you're going to hear a story again and I have not asked any questions and the way that I teach this is if you and I are standing at the grocery store and there's a a young lady over there stalking fruits and I said all right Leon you've got 60 seconds to go up to this person and find out how much they make for a living and you're not allowed to ask any questions it's it's tough to think about that so if if I went over to her and I said hey I'm trying to find the baby carrots or whatever and she starts walking me over somewhere haven't asked a question yet that was a statement and then I say I just read on LinkedIn that you guys got bumped up to $22 an hour that's unbelievable that's great congratulations to everybody here that's amazing and she goes what we only make 1750 everybody does I've got the I've got that and there was no willingness there was no uh stress around this is financial information I can't talk about sex can't talk about money because we're in America so there I avoided that social barrier because there was no question being asked so the a different way to do this is called quotes facts and figures and you deliberately say I saw a YouTube video read an article did something that said X Y and Z and it triggers a need in the human brain that's almost irresistible and it's called the need to correct the record I need to set the record straight H which is what I was talking about in The Uber that's fascinating and the next way we do this is just making what's called a provocative statement so let's say I asked you what you do for a living and you say well I make YouTube videos and uh I'm now I'm starting this new podcast thing and it's been uh interesting it's been a good career change and I say wow YouTube that has got to be challenging yeah and then you and then it it starts coming out it's like people can't resist and then let's say you said well yeah it's challenging we did this this and monetizing and YouTube language and whatever else I said I cannot imagine what that is like that's got to be really stressful it's it's got probably keeps you up at night and then just yeah I mean when I'm editing videos and then I'll just let's say you just talked about editing a video and I said editing videos and then you would keep talking I would probably push the question back on you what do you do yeah yeah well you did yeah what were what were the instances where I did that actually last night do you remember the questions did are you thinking we had this conversation oh redirected it redirected it back to you I think we were talking about psychedelics and you were and I was asking you like about your journey and you said what was your journey like what was it like for you why do you think I'd do that I think uh number one you're a great listener you like learning about people number two uh it makes sure in your brain that the other person becomes vulnerable first okay which I was okay with yeah interesting the the the techniques you just shared about getting someone to reveal information they normally wouldn't yeah I think the reason why the getting the record straight is so powerful because when you bring up a stat a figure something I noticed that too in in YouTube videos when I talk about something there's always someone who's like no that study is not real that's it's not right I think it it just giving someone the opportunity to prove a study or a statistic wrong with their own Insider information is such a dunk opportunity like feels so good for those people it's so irresistible yeah um and then the provocative statement how what exactly is the V ative statement it's it's something that like how do I make sure that is that it is a provocative statement it's any statement that elicits a response from the other person is a provocative statement so technically me doing quotes facts and figures saying I saw this video or whatever is still a provocative statement but most short easy provocative statements start with the word so like so you've been doing this for a year and you're you've probably become an expert by now or I bet so or I bet so I bet that's got to be really challenging I can't imagine that's good so or I bet okay so we got a way to elicit information from people y that they normally wouldn't what are some other things that you use on a day-to-day basis that people could use as well to see if they can trust someone to test someone's honesty anything really or even just to read someone yeah I think uh in everyday conversations if you're if you're looking at a person the number one thing that you can look for is how often they're blinking and this sounds really Behavior nerdy but our blink rate how often our eyes blink is the number one indicator of stress and we are unaware so like if you're watching this video right now you've been watching us for 38 minutes or however long it is without being aware of how often you're blinking and it's unconscious which means that it's reliable because you're not paying attention to it so stress makes our blink rate go way up so our average blink rate every day in conversation is about 15 to 18 per minute and in high stress scenarios like when I was taking like the math part of my SATs or taking an exam that I was unsure about my blink rate was probably 80s or 90s it's that high and when you're watching a movie that you really love it's so when we have an increased level of focus focus lowers blink rate stress increases it Focus can bring it down like if I'm watching a movie like Interstellar uh my blink rate was probably three not joking don't notice yeah so your eyes stay open longer because we're focused on something so if I'm in a conversation with a person and the moment they start talking about finances or taxes or a a criminal record or you know any kind of topic and I see that blink rate start going up you don't have to count I mean it's very obvious if someone's blinking I start a conversation are they blinking regular fast or slow that's it all I'm looking for from that point on is a change a change in that person's blink rate and what what were they talking about when I saw those eyes start blinking faster and were they talking about uh their ex were they talking about um something that they saw on TV that stressed them out and I know this topic is stressful even though they're pretending like it's not that is one of the most reliable indicators of stress in the moment can we talk about the conversation we witnessed yesterday what happened yesterday with FaceTime yes let's not say any names but okay we won't say any names I was I was going to do that too okay so there's a friend of yours that we spent some time with yesterday yeah and he called up a girl that he's been seeing yeah and you told him hey do this and then let's see what happens yeah and he basically tried to figure out if this girl has been with someone the previous day because she went out with some friends or if she was being deceptive yes yeah she was concealing something yeah and it was fascinating to witness because we were all sitting there he's FaceTiming her and you like you pull up close to the screen and you're like she's hiding something she's hiding something yeah she's not on the truth instantly instantly and it was so incredible to witness and so exciting I wish I would have filmed the whole thing but of course there was you know privacy needed yeah but what are the things that you saw in that girl and what what went down where you're like okay something's up here so Leon's not saying the word woman because she is young enough to use the word uh girl ah yeah yeah I know some people find it offensive woman whatever he asked her did anything happen last night over FaceTime so my face is like this far from the iPad off camera though like I'm not in in the scene imagine this like you're just sitting right next hovering over the the lens who's this guy so he he asked her this question and right away there was an increase in blink rate there was uh pupil dilation and there was Scara exposure the white of the eye got exposed above up here meaning the eyes widened the eyes widened like this it's probably a sign of danger something bad is happening I need to really pay attention right now and not say anything wrong yep be careful the the pupil dilation is the black of the eyes gets wider yes the black part of the center of the eye widens and you could tell that even through a FaceTime on a FaceTime video yeah wow next the lips Drew horizontally backwards and this is a fear response you can see it in a all of these facial expressions you can see in a three-month-old baby or a newborn they're still there like if you have a newborn baby and like you let it think that the baby's falling like you lower it really quickly you'll see that movement so the next movement is this little muscle jumps out in front of the kateed artery to protect your arteries it's the sternal cleat mastoid muscle and we saw all of that so we saw increased blink rate a pupil dilation scleral exposure with the eyes widening mouth going back towards the face and the sternal Cleo mastoid muscles and vocal hesitation she paused more than every other question that he asked her and we saw a lack of pronouns and a sudden lack of pronouns is a very good indicator and I mean sudden if if the person never uses pronouns then it's it's worthless MH so what did she say do you remember so the first couple of questions she says I did this and then we went to do this and then we went to a restaurant and then I did this and both of us did this and then he said what happened last night and or what happened after that and she goes well went home watched a movie went to bed instead of we went I went there's no we there's no I all the pronouns disappear and that's a that's a very reliable deception indicator and all those indicators that I just talked about that Giant mountain happened in less than 4 seconds so we saw this interaction mhm him talking to her he was I think he was surprised he was oh no okay makes sense and you were like she's concealing something yeah like 10 I saw 10 signs yeah and that happened in 4 seconds that immediately boom there's a stress response yeah because she's concealing information her entire nervous system responds differently and you see a cluster of behaviors one of them could be something else right like maybe the eyes are dry whatever but combined it creates more reliability there's something being concealed because now I'm seeing a mountain so the the way to read human behavior is change first can you detect changes and screw all the other books about body language are can you get good at spotting changes in how a person acts next is clusters so I'm spotting a change right is it just one change or is it a cluster so now we get into clusters then we get into context like she crossed her arms and never uncrossed her arms well is it 50° in the room so so that's context right so there's context that changes it and then you're still dealing in likelihood so then he hangs up the phone for just he's like oh I got to talk to my mom hangs up the phone and then I give him a twom minute maybe a 75 second long course in interrogation I say you say this this this and this and he did that and the truth came out there was something being concealed for sure and you were there watching yeah so what yeah what would you do if you wanted someone to reveal information once you see they're concealing something what is something that could be done to get behind it because it could mean anything it could be okay she cheated it could be that there's something else she's not wanting to reveal which was the case which was the case she did not cheat um but there was something that she concealed and so how could how could you once you know somebody likely concealing likely concealing like it's one way to know but it's another way to actually get the information out like what is it yeah this is where elicitation those techniques of using statements is not enough so at this point in an interrogation uh that what we call this a confrontation so now it's time to actually have a confrontation and it doesn't have to you don't have to be an but you need to say say something that says you know something's not something's not was off about that and in the interrogation room I might say something like uh Leon I know you're a good person I've been doing this a long time and if there's one thing I know for sure it's when I'm not getting the full story MH and you can feel the stress right I can see the stress on your face just from doing this and it's very kind but it produces some stress I've been doing this a long time or if I'm just talking to a person I know I'd say Leon I like you as a person I've known you a long time and if there's one thing I know it's when I'm not really getting the full story here it doesn't accuse them yep it creates a safe space safe space and then we move into something called a monologue and this is where we have four goals socialize rationalize minimize and project so ize people are going to understand minimize not a big deal rationalize anybody would have done that it makes perfect sense and then project it's not your fault so this is just creating a Bedrock Foundation of whatever you're sharing with me it's safe yeah and there's there's not going to be consequences in The Art of War sunzu has a quote that I think is so perfect to describe this and it's build your opponent a golden bridge upon which they can retreat treat and that's what that is so socialize minimize rationalize project those in in real language let's say I'm really trying to get a confession out of a person let's say it's a person who um stole a bunch of money from a business or a bank I was going to do like a predator type person but I don't think the transcript of this video would probably get it blocked or something or depop poiz or whatever it's called yeah so let's do the money guy so we want to socialize right the first and I would say John this makes sense and I think once people understand the kind of person you are and the reason that you did this I think everybody who understands this is going to fully agree and understand why you did this minimize and we're not talking about a million dollars I deal with those people all the time I talk to bad people every day of my life and I know you're not one of those people this is a small tiny amount of money it's not a big deal what what happened was not a big deal and people get over this people get through this it's not it's not huge I feel the golden bridge being built I can slowly take my first few steps yeah what's the next step rationalize rationalize and John I know that your aunt has had piling up medical bills she's been suffering she's going through chemotherapy and all that stuff anybody in their right mind this makes perfect sense why you could do this and now we're moving into to project and this company doesn't pay you they don't pay any of their employees anything and your that your medical bills are piling up as well because you don't have good medical insurance I think anybody in your situation especially with the way this company treats you and they don't check for any security they don't if they wanted to keep that money secure they would have locked it up they don't anybody would have done this in your situation and it makes perfect sense so what I'd like to put in my report here is that you did this for good reasons so what I want to know is did you take that 10,000 to go spend on cocaine and heroin or were you trying to help someone well I didn't do it right hopefully so here's the thing right if if somebody's innocent they would still be like yeah well that's all good for that person but I didn't do it yeah and so that's probably the first response that you get from someone who's innocent it's like well you don't need to give me this monologue I yeah you get anger yeah it's like innocent people get angry guilty people try to build rapport yes they they they take the first step on the golden bridge and they're like is this safe is this is this yeah let me make you into a friend uh I need to make you a friend and innocent people don't care how you view them there's they're saying this is insane I do not belong here and there's a few questions before we get to that part of an interrogation there's a couple of questions that we use to get a good read on whether or not I'm dealing with the right person and the first one is called a um bait question or or you can call it a mind virus uh so let's say you're OJ all right and you were OJ Simpson you were at what you did whatever last night and you come into the interrogation room and I say hey OJ I appreciate you coming in um we've got officers out there canvasing the streets and we've got tons of people doing lots of research I just want and I like you a lot as a as a person and I just want to say I I want you to think carefully before you answer this is there any reason that somebody would have said that they saw you at Nicole's last night if you were there you're freaking out and I didn't say I have a video I didn't I'm not lying in saying that I have any of this evidence but I am saying is there any reason that this would have happened and or that you would know because you may have inside information right right and I I did this recently with a massage therapist who was accused of sexually touching people while giving them massages and doing weird stuff and we lined him up to this and I finally went in and said is there any reason that a video would surface now that may be a cell phone or something like that that shows some of the stuff happening and it was instantly you could see sweat this is on the Dr Phil show live on TV wow and it you could see sweat and we we didn't want to get to full confession mode there so it was working the next question to figure out whether I need to do the confrontation in golden bridge is now let's put you back in the mindset of a perpetrator again or somebody who did something oh J OJ and OJ I'm curious like what do you think should happen to the person that did this what do you think should happen to the person that did this and that helps me to kind of differentiate innocent and guilty people especially if a child was harmed uh and you'll hear this a lot in people who hurt kids I'll just say that so that's people know what I'm talking about and I'll say what do you think should happen to the person that that did this and they'll say oh uh definitely an apology to the family definitely an apology to the family but this this person probably needs some kind of help or counseling something like that they need some kind of help but they should definitely apologize this is not not okay and they they really need to to see some therapy and fix themselves who would say that who would say this in the world about a person who hurt children somebody who's guilty right and wants to minimize what they did and wants to get off the leash as much as possible yeah wow fascinating and the reason why it's so powerful the question of is any reason to believe that I may have heard something it it gives them the chance to at least be honest and be like yes I did it or yes I'm I wasn't fully honest with you because if you find out later that they lied it's much more severe than okay they admitted it and those are the worst people to do interrogations on because you've got to say things like she was old enough to know what she was doing her mom didn't raise her right I'm willing to bet this was her idea she probably talked you into doing this you projected on the victim yeah and you have to yeah kind of put yourself on that mindset just it's I'm getting nauseous thinking about it but yeah that's the way to get those people to confess to get anybody to confess to anything it's it's a pretty similar formula for everything and the powerful thing about the Mind virus is it creates a lot of stress in them when you ask them is there any reason that I would have a video or have heard something that right would prove this yeah it creates a ton of stress in them if they're guilty or they're concealing something and zero stress for innocent people if they're innocent they're like go ahead yeah personally I would probably be worried that there's some sort of AI generated video or something and I'm that's actually one of my fears is being wrongfully accused of something yeah and then going to jail for that I'll would be that's awful so I guess it could still create stress but not it's a different kind it's a different kind different flavor yeah I just finished building an entire protocol for Chris Hansen the guy who catches Predators on TV mhm uh so Chris and I uh are are friends now and I built this like nine-page protocol of these perfect scripted on liners that will make these guys start to confess on camera so the upcoming episodes I'm so excited about wow you can see that's my line yeah he did nice so those are things that people can use one of the things you mentioned yesterday casually is you're talking with your friend about oh yeah you like you randomly mentioned my name and you said something like oh yeah Leon's pretty open-minded you can see it by his his eyes they're pretty low eyelids lower eyelids and I was like what do you mean oh you have lower eyelids which is a sign that I'm less likely to make this facial expression where you you pull your eyelids in skepticism skepticism and but both of us have the same lower eyelids let's both look into our individual cameras we can maybe do a side by side here I'm giving you editing work of your own podcast great okay so over time our facial expressions etch onto the face usually by the time we're like 16 17 it's not like old people wrinkles so like if someone's seeking social approval their whole life this is how we seek approval from other people no that's why I have the lines on my forehead yeah because I'm seeing a social person you see a psychopath blank forehead beautiful wrinkle free yes it looks like Botox in a psychopath you see a person that spent their whole life super happy and in full enjoyment you're going to see these crows feet here from smiling all the time on the side of the eyes yeah you see somebody who's been depressed or angry you're going to see this muscle right here forms these two wrinkles this is called the globella it forms these two wrinkles so you'll see lifetimes of behavioral patterns etched onto the face I call this facial etching and when somebody's depressed you see it on the face but skepticism M makes us squeeze the lower eyelid up like this and you can see this in anybody I have no idea whether it's proven science or not my Sciences I've done research on this for 30,000 hours in in real life on facial expressions but skepticism squeezes this lower eyelid up here so somebody the less skeptical someone has spent their lifetime this is my theory uh so grain of salt MH uh the more suggestible that person is and and I think people are happier okay your theory is that people with lower eyelids are more suggestible but the idea that people who are skeptical for most of their life have different low eyelids that's that's not your theory that's widely accepted amongst people or well the the facial expression of skepticism is widely agreed upon okay that that Expressions etch onto the face is agreed upon so what are some of the signs that people can see in the people in their lives when they look at them the lower eyelids is one thing the crows feed you mentioned happiness consistent seeking of social approval I could see somebody 30 yards away and see if they're even 30 years old 20 years old those lines on the forehead and know that that person will be very easy to start a conversation with because all I've got to do is go oh hey how are you and the eyebrow flash is repeated by humans 90% of the time without the other person knowing just walking by a total stranger saying oh hey good morning their eyebrows will instinctively go up especially if they're a social person uh then if if we see anything in the center here this globella is a person with anger depression because that's the facial expression of anger squeezes those two muscles together and if you ever see a horseshoe muscle like right here uh it's very hard to fake I try to do it all the time but if you just type in grief muscle into Google Images you'll have something to slap on the screen right now that's a grief muscle what you're looking at right now I'm intentionally going to do it a few seconds after you said right now perfect I can't wait okay so that's it and you can determine suggestibility by the lower eyelid and I've tested this with three hypnotists who have tested it out on over 15,000 hypnotic subjects and it is a 100% according to these three guys a 100% correct so those are the most easily hypnotized people in a crowd because they do like comedy hypnosis in a bar where they like bring people up on stage like oh you're smelling a fart and it smells real bad that kind of stuff um so that they've told come back and said that is the most accurate predictor of suggestibility I've ever seen the the smoothness of the lower eyelid yeah so there is a there's a young lady in here running our podcast behind a big screen there also smooth lower eyelids suggestible I'm I'm very suggestable so I'm not like vaccinated because I learned all this stuff where I I can't get manipulated or anything I'm I'm just as susceptible as anybody else MH but it is a great indicator and I used it in my fictional book called phrase s which will be a a TV series soon um this bad guy uses the lower eyelids to determine who's going to be the easiest to make into a killer using hypnosis wow I bet that not only in the face can we tell what emotions people consistently feel but also the posture because it's part of the whole nervous system right if you have someone with I mean it's obvious if you have someone who's hunched over the protected they're heart if you have someone who tucks in their tailbone or something I think all these are indicators right one one of the biggest ways to see this is if you see constant behavior of Limbs protecting arteries so the the upper bone of the arm this is called the humoris squeezes in toward the Torso on a regular basis to protect the brachial artery the person's shoulders are raised up a little bit to protect the cored artery a little bit more these ones yep on the neck yep so if someone was like that they would be really comfortable yeah and you think that's how primates will show each other that they I'm not you're not a threat to me and I'm challenging you humans do it too when you do that you say oh what's up I'm opening all these arteries at the same time I'm I'm not threatened at all so that's when you see barf fights start to happen it's like this artery exposure behavior and you see it in baboons uh bonobo chimps human beings exactly the the same why are suggestible people happier what do you think is it because they just have less masks and they're less on defense yeah I think they they spend their life in they're more present instead of being like screening every piece of information that's coming in they're not Vigilant they're not on God yeah yeah I guess they're vulnerable and able to yeah able to just experience life's ups and downs yeah and I think the vulnerability is the pathway the pathway to a better life no matter what mask you wear if you can force yourself to be more vulnerable people like it and there's some disgusting belief in our culture that if I'm on social media I've got to pretend to be perfect that's the only way I'm going to be liked is to pretend to be perfect and we were doing this yesterday the friend that we were talking about my friend going through Instagram and he's showing me he's asking me to profile women for him and going through all these accounts I'm like no this woman is a complete simulation this woman is absolutely fake everything personality everything is fake and it's if you ever watch the Amber herd Johnny Depp trial that is the difference between someone who's open to being wounded Johnny Depp y just open open to everything he's very vulnerable openly talks about the drugs and all that stuff and on the flip side the person that takes a on the bed yeah and and pretends to be perfect at the same time and Flawless you can't do both at the same time take a on someone's bed allegedly allegedly oh that was not confirmed yeah it was never fully confirmed so we need to make sure you say that okay yeah wow fascinating vulnerability mhm maybe it could segue into psychedelics and also your journey with your brain disease yeah so I forgot to mention this last time in the episode you have a neuroscience degree from Harvard as well certification certification yeah why' you get into that what did you learn what's your brain disease like just catch people up to speed to that I found out I had a brain disease after becoming a neuroscientist so I had been having seizures for three years and these are called temporal lobe seizures so you're not like jiggling all on the ground and shaking around and stuff like a tonic colonic seizure but these are absence seizures where like I leave planet Earth like drool comes out of my mouth and in six the seizures are about 60 seconds to 90 seconds and inside of one of those seizures it's like three years of memories that that brand new memories that don't exist that my brain has to now is trying to file in with real life three years and that's one seizure and at at the peak of this I had nine seizures a day nine of those a day to the point point where I didn't know who my wife was I looked her right in the eyes and and thought if I just pretend like I know who she is long enough we're going to be okay like it's going to come back to me I thought my dog was fake like it it broke me out of reality completely what do you mean it was fake like I thought that I was I thought that my dog was not my dog and somebody like put a different dog that looks like my dog in my house ah the dog is an impostor yeah it's the dog is a spy yeah and there's so much Deja Vu that happens with a temporal lobe seizure uh to where everything is like a memory I'm like I'm looking around all these tripods right so my brain would start seeing every detail in the room the reflection off of the tape on that Amazon box right there every single detail is coming back from like hundreds of memories as if I'd remembered all of this and it's so much Deja Vu that your brain automatically goes the only way this is real is if someone's setting me up someone set this up and right at that moment when you realize like you're thinking like somebody set this up bam the seizure starts oh and then you're just launched into this nightmare that's like three years long that lasts 60 seconds it's the ultimate Time Warp uh and I'm losing about a million neurons a second during those seizures that's what it feels like that's a fact so it it was bad and my hippocampus was kind of just eating itself and this my family so here's the second part the seizures come with amnesia a side effect of Amnesia so I had been having seizures for 3 years my family knows that I studied Neuroscience they know that I've well versed in how the brain works so they said oh if Chase is going through anything he would know he would go to a doctor and I remembered nothing about the seizures didn't remember having them my brain would delete it so finally I'm filming an episode of the behavior panel I'll send you this video I had a seizure while we were filming our YouTube show I'll send you the video of the seizure and I got it on camera and I watched my face and I thought that's a I have temporal Lo epilepsy so you didn't know you were having these seizures yeah so you couldn't even solve it because you didn't know the problem existed because Amnesia oh my God despite having the degree despite everybody else said oh Chase would know if he needs to go to a neurologist so finally I see it on camera and I say I have temporal Lo epilepsy I need to go to the emergency room and uh I I need to go to the ER because I wanted a a prescription to stop my neurons from dying right so I wanted a drug called toymate or Topamax and I asked the doctor in the ER for Topamax got the prescription seizure stopped then I started looking at the side effects of all of these drugs number one side effect seizures most common side effect and I said that this is so dumb there has to be something that that's going to stop my seizures that's not going to kill me that's Terri why do why does medication like that exist like anti-depressant side effect Suicidal Thoughts yeah I think in Western medicine medication is not designed to cure it's designed to treat a individual symptom and doctors get training on treating symptoms instead of people I'm going to just take this you like this chemical is too high I'm going to give you a pill that's going to make that chemical too low but then it make might make this other chemical too high so you're going to see this other doctor who's a specialist in that chemical he's going to give you another pill to push that chemical down where it's supposed to be and that one doctor has an affiliate link for the other doctor yeah it's and none of the doctors are have any malice it's just the way our the system works right now and it works okay but we need to start seeing humans instead of symptoms uh so I discovered this miracle that saved my entire life and now I drive a car I have zero seizures uh my brain my most recent brain scan says that everything is reversed the damage has been reversed because of what I found and it was a miracle what is it I'm just going to leave you hanging on what is it all right this is the show thank you for watch like And subscribe what did you find I mean I know um I mean you've been talking to me about it uh and it seems too good to be true big time which what I thought for a long time yeah I thought I'm trained I'm trained in medical Neuroscience I'm trained in all this stuff I would totally know if if this was a thing I would know about it yeah my ego was so huge and I was browsing Instagram shorts what this I'm not I'm not an expert here but you you're not just some dude who found something like there's there's papers on it there's studies on it I've published medical papers on published medical papers on it yes so before we get into any of that let's establish that and then yeah and I'm let's let's just say I'm not an expert either but I have published academic papers on this um so I'm scrolling YouTube shorts or Instagram one day and all of my feed is recommending brain stuff CU that's I'm obsessed I'm absolutely obsessed and at this point I'm finishing up uh my training in neuro Radiology like reading brain scans and stuff like that at Duke University so I'm obsessing over the brain because I'm studying it I'm obsessing over the brain because I'm desperate to fix my own brain at the same time and I scroll up and this guy sounds like a Huntington Beach beach bum like a surfer dude uh and he's talking about this chemical he says it's a miracle cure and ego came up again and I said well he doesn't sound doesn't sound like my professor so I swiped up but right when I swiped up my brain processed what he was saying he was talking about this magical chemical in our bodies called cytochrom C oxidase and monoamine oxidase and I heard and I was processing these and I tried to swipe back down to find him to look listen to what he said and I hit the home button on accident so you know like when you're in the middle of a scroll you can't go back oh wow that's fascinating that that it was that Split Second and you could have missed it yeah what happened you looked it up so it took two or three days because I typed in Surfer Dude doctor cytochrome oxidase I tried everything I could think of to try to find him so his name is Dr John lorance he is a functional neurologist he's a doctor he has a practice in Sarasota Florida but he was talking about this chemical called methylene blue and he said it's an industrial blue dye and I'm like okay yeah sounds legit yeah what what is that going to do and at the time I thought a doctor would know a neurologist would have told me this would be famous everybody would know about it if if it was pop if it was effective it would have been on my uncle's podcast guaranteed in my head yeah it would have been on your uncle's podcast Uncle huberman so I who's a real neuroscientist by the way I consider myself a lowercase n neuroscientist he's an uppercase guy yeah so I I hear about this chemical and it's the most effective thing I've ever taken in my life for my skin my eyes my lungs my heart my brain every single cell in my body is benefiting from methylene blue and the first time a human being ever uttered the words Magic Bullet was in like 1897 this doctor who discovered methylene blue discovered that it basically cures just about everything and not not treat not treat which American drugs treat things this is a this is can cure and reverse damage of all cellular stress like I'm going to get in trouble here with YouTube again but go on this is magical C uh as as I'm talking about any of this all of the studies are out there and it's not like some Fringe study that was done in like Madagascar or something this is like John's Hopkins this is Mayo Clinic this is Harvard Oxford University Stanford's done a work on this Uncle Huber may may have written a paper or two on it I doubt it but it's been used since 1890 the patent expired in the early 1900s and as a quick I can't I can't explain all the ways that it works without like going into super crazy detail about how cells breathe but I will say that it targets neuronal mitochondria the mitochondria Powerhouse of the cell in your neurons you have so much mitochondria in your body that it makes up about 6 to 7% of your body weight that's it's a lot of mitochondria so methylene blue goes in there and it dyes all of your cells blue temporarily blue your mitochondria especially as a fun fact mitochondria do not have human DNA they are not human the things that are running every cell in your body has zero human DNA it's closer to bacteria this is a result of a symbiotic relationship that was formed a billion something years ago a treaty between between these two things men and bacteria yes we will emerge we we became one you can look that up later but methylene blue goes into the cell and prevents these things called reactive oxygen species other people call them free radicals from building up it converts water or converts oxygen into water that's your body's main job so if I have an oxygen molecule that's got too many hydrogens on it that's called the reactive oxygen species and we also have reactive nitrogen species which methylene blue helps methylene blue gathers up electrons so that's the root of most disease is free radicals and inflammation like is this not disputed by anyone on Earth for example Alzheimer's mosia gravis urinary tract infections herpes fill in the blank STDs neurod degenerative diseases Parkinson inflammation Alzheimer's y any form of inflammation I mean that's where most diseases almost all forms of inflammation come from this wow so methylene blue just gets rid of it and I thought that's not possible not going to happen then I learned methylene blue helps gets electrons from doing all this and goes back to your little mitochondria and donates those electrons down into the mitochondria of your cell so your mitochondria have a few layers to it if and these are tiny microscopic right so an electron jumps into this layer an electron spins around all the time so as the electron is passing through these four layers of your mitochondria it's generating heat and that's cellular energy that's how our cells generate heat to make energy for our body in the form of ATP adenosine triphosphate so on top of that it helps to make this chemical it like I don't remember the exact numbers I would say it triples the amount of this chemical inside your cell called cytochrome C oxidase so cyto meaning cell Chrome meaning color oxidase meaning an oxygen so it increases is intracellular oxygen and something called the Krebs cycle which anybody who's been through med school has like nightmares about the kreb cycle because it's you have to memorize this crazy formula for how a cell breathes air and how a cell breathes oxygen is more complex than how we breathe oxygen way more complex so if a cell starts getting low oxygen and your body has a buildup of reactive oxygen species you have disease guaranteed cuz now your cells can't run on electrons anymore and they start doing something called uh Brewery or they're kind of like fermentation running and that's the backup power system of your body is the cells use fermentation to start bubbling up energy inside the cell because they're not getting enough electrons they're not getting enough energy there's a million things I've published a paper on methylene blue um which you can put in the in the description if somebody wants to read it I wrote it so that my mom could take get to her doctor I don't give a crap about who else reads the paper I wrote it for my mom to be able to give to her doctor so her doctor understands what it is that's what the paper's for so it is a it's been a miracle it stopped my entire seizures it's reversed brain damage I have more energy more mental focus I'm in a better mood than I've ever been since I was like 20 years old and that's just the methylene blue and then we stack on high do melatonin on top of that a 200 milligram melat tonin that I also get from Dr laurance um I saw him in person just a couple weeks ago and he kind of rebooted my entire nervous system um the highd dose melatonin does very similar things to methylene blue but on a different level in just different dimensions of it and I'll let I'll let somebody who's watching just look that up please look that up please look it up look what up highd do melatonin and it's a suppository 200 mgram melatonin suppository but the the final thing that meth Meine blue two more things that methylene blue does number one is red light therapy if you're red light therapy is proven proven to work and if you have a good red light machine it penetrates your body up to 4 Ines you could tell I'm like three times as excited talking about this because I'm desperate for people to like know about this chemical and I felt like the biggest dumbass in the world for narcissistically thinking that I would know about it if it was good I I would have I would have read some studies on it uh and I'm trying to be that messenger for everybody to just look it up and talk to your doctor obviously doctor needs to be spoken to but if you're doing red light therapy methylene blue is blue because it it reflects a lot of blue light and it that which means it absorbs tons of red light so if I'm in a red light therapy machine and I have methylene blue inside my body it's all in my veins it's all all throughout my body that means every cell is absorbing that red light and that allows some of your CS to start running on that Photon energy and it like I would say 600x the effects of red light therapy if you're using methylene blue and the final benefit of methylene blue is that it has the capacity to cure or treat depression and anxiety because it's it's something called a monoamine oxidase inhibitor and for hundred years we used maois which is the abbreviation for that to treat depression and it was proven clinically proven to work and I would say don't take my word for it because I was mistrusting in in the beginning and I thought there's no possible way I would have heard about it my doctor would have told me about it it would be all over TV and I don't know why it's not prescription it's a overthe counter side effects zero none so the patent running out is do people not know about it because nobody has a patent and can make a ton of money off of it I think that's probably the reason and one of the big I mean you only see commercials for things that are patented there's money in it doctors are only telling you about the drugs that are common makes you wonder what other cures are there out there that nobody know knows about that's right under our nose there's probably so much and what's funny is that science uh my dad texted me an article hold on I'll read you the title of this article and you can edit this out if you want to so here it is UT Health University of Texas Health Houston to test psychedelic mushrooms as a treatment for depression I love how science is just now like this is is a breakthrough and we've been doing mushrooms as a species for like 10,000 years 50,000 years uh and treating depression with it for that whole time but now they're like oh we're we're just making this discovery and they use those words like that which is ridiculous to me close the loop on your story with your brain yeah it's cured now it's completely it's absolutely cured wow and the brain scans prove it like the the the brain has rebuilt itself it's healthy everything is functioning perfectly you can test it on an MRI a pet scan and an ambulatory EEG which means I wear a brain uh Electro machine that scans brain waves for like an extended period of time like 72 hours and people analyze all of that to make sure that there's no misf firings of neurons going on Wow and so psychedelics yeah what have you learned what have you experienced and it's made a big difference for you I I think psychedelics changed my life and I think it's the first time that I was able to like unzip this ego costume and start stepping out of it and it was terrifying like who who will I be if I'm not this this Halloween costume of of Chase Hughes what was your Halloween costume tough guy tobacco chewing tobacco chewing gunman gunfighting military guy 20 years in the military yeah how many deployments nine nine deployments wow for anyone who's like don't find any records you mentioned this I'll send them to you yes but uh there was a hater online just for context that would yeah so I I think just stepping out of that was the most meaningful experience of my entire life and I judged mushrooms for decades and I thought there's no way that that could be a spiritual molecule that there could be anything spiritual about that and you cannot there's no words in the English language to be able to describe the the depth that that thing can take you to or show you or expose you to I don't know how it works I'm not claiming to know the the GPS coordinates of whatever Dimension you go to or if you're imagining it or if it's all hallucination I don't care uh it it unzips your ego and I think if you do it every few months even a lighter dose every few months wherever it's legal um I think you come like if we're doing a little chart here here's my little ego up here and I have one psychedelic journey and my ego just disappears and I'm I see myself as less separate that's kind of what ego is I'm separate from from everybody else yeah and a psychopath is somebody who is Ultimate the ultimate separation yeah no one else is meaningless but me that's the perfect ultimate separation so now ego you have this little brief experience of ego dying and then you start coming out of that and be like wow that was like I'm I was connected to stuff like I was this military guy no spirituality whatsoever and I've never been spiritual until that day I became permanently spiritual not religious uh by any means but just so spiritual that I would say I have no idea what this is this existence I don't know what it is so then you come down out of the ego you go back up after the dose you're back into ego again but this little this little Peak is like a millimeter lower than the last Peak then you maybe a few months later do it again and this peak is a little bit lower and this little ego peak's a little bit lower uh I don't know how big my ego Peak is maybe it's 3 in or you know whatever it is on that graph mhm but man it feels so good it's such a freeing experience U to have that and one the reason that I started trying psychedelics was they they create something called neuroplasticity more specifically than that they create something called synaptic plasticity which your uncle hberman could tell you about but uh your synapses neurons can not just talk to each other differently but they can make connections where they need to be made that's why mushrooms are being used for PTSD and anxiety and depression addiction disorders so I think that's that's what got me into it was just trying to fix my brain I did not know I did not know that there was going to be some kind of spiritual component to it I thought I was just going to put a blindfold on see a bunch of like Beatle songs kind of stuff like in my vision and then I'd wake up and and I be back to normal and I'm thank God that I'm I didn't go back to what defined as normal back then because it was full of ego completely full of ego consult your doctor don't listen to anything that we're saying none of this is advice do everything legally yes so you gave me this massive Ops manual yeah for reading people this is something that intelligence agencies would use mhm or are using I don't know if you can disclose that yeah they are using it to train people yes US Government um and then you told me about the new thing that you have coming out the exit is is that what it's called it's a book called exit a user's guide to the simulation the way you pitched it to me was so fascinating because it's not this simulation like Elon Musk would say that we're in a video game right but it's it's something that where you what's the origin story of that so it's basically getting off of the map glitching out of the map so and this is this is not conspiracy theory stuff this is not at all this is just reality dealing with reality yeah because one of the things you said to me was okay going to a grocery store is a simulation it is simulating going to the forest and picking your berries yep right Instagram is a simulation of Life uh a a department store is a simulation of like a market uh if you go to Disneyland for example there are simulations of characters that have no original it's a simulation of something you saw on TV that has no original it's a copy of a copy but there is no original and it's simulating cities it's simulating towns in so much perfection and so much of our lives are these little simulations of things like the menu at at a fast food place has these perfect luxurious looking Burgers on it and we know for a fact that that's a simulation that's not what it really looks like so all of our lives like people the Disney World is attractive a theme parks are attractive because they're a simulation of reality that's more perfect than reality and we've gotten to a place where people prefer almost prefer refer the simulation the the presidential debate is about who can fake it better who can say the exact right words more and we're we know that they're lying we know politicians are are full of it we prefer the person who simulates better I want the better simulated person and just so much of our lives are about simulation and I if you just look at any study the further we get from nature like if I take an orca whale and I stick it in a tank at at a theme park I won't say the name shme shme world shme world yeah let's just call it and I shorten that creature's life instantly the moment they start living in captivity their life is shortened if I take an octopus out of the ocean I shorten their lifespan by 3 to four years a third of their life goes away no matter how perfect perfectly I manage that salt water they're living in the pH levels the algae I add in all of this perfect stuff so that the octopus can live the most perfect life possible and I'm simulating the what their environment is supposed to be like it shortens its life because it's a simulated environment no matter how perfect and you take a human out of where our ancestors lived and we're we're no longer seeing things and being around the environment where we're supposed to be our lives are shorten and you can see the the places where people live the longest are closer to Nature they have smaller tribal groups this is Malcolm Gladwell wrote books about this outliers was written about this or chapter in outliers and I published a paper a year ago called ancestor confusion Theory where if we imagine and this this part you have to imagine because we we know that part of it's true but if you imagine an ancestor living inside of me my ancestors from a 100,000 years ago 200,000 years ago living inside of me if I spend time in places that that ancestor does not understand like cities and Office Buildings with artificial lighting and I'm eating processed foods that my cells my ancestor cells don't understand how to deal with that I have disease and if I'm in the simulated environment enough like cities and all this or simulated places it's not like none of it's real it's a simulation of life and how life is supposed to be I have disease and this is even this is a simulation right now right yeah we're talking into a mic it feels like there's a bunch of people yep but there isn't yeah and for people who are listening they feel like they're in a conversation with us yes and they're watching us on a screen and they're getting sick while they're listening to it yeah but it if we if if what I'm looking at every day would confuse my ancestors the first thing that starts is psychopathy and the second thing that that starts is what I call bopath because that word should have been invented but I don't think it was it's yours now you it's a pathology of biological functions like I'm eating things my cells don't recognize because our bodies and our brains have not changed in about 200,000 years it's about the same exact cells same brain our brain has gotten bigger and so we think like oh since we have iPhones now our bodies must be evolving at the same Pace as technology we we have not and technology has outpaced our ability to deal with it which is evident when we have have rampant depression anxiety suicides are through the roof and what's causing all this is us kind of living too much inside of a simulated world and if you just look at any of the statistics the closer somebody is to Nature whether it's food how much time they're spending in it the the type of light they're being exposed to all the time uh they're healthier and I'm not saying this is like oh this is going to stop cancer or this is going to like prevent disease I'm just saying the human is better off in our natural environment in the place we're supposed to be and I think one of the biggest mistakes of all time in human history is us remember psychopathy starts at what separation is viewing ourselves as separate from nature instead of a peace of nature they're like oh I need to go spend more time in nature like you're not spending time in nature that's you those are yourselves the stuff that makes this up right here is not me I have more in relation to this piece of wood on on this desk right here so viewing ourselves as separate from the earth separate from nature is and this sounds so hippie but the science is there we spend time where our ancestors would have been comfortable in some a place where our ancestors would it would make sense to them this is my theory but you can look up the statistics if you want toh what do we do with this information I have no idea because I don't I don't want to go live in nature in a cabin in a hut a tiki hut well there's probably the 8020 that we can avoid right I mean when I look at the like I can't imagine what it's like growing up with a phone I was blessed to I had an I had an iPhone with access to social media at all times when I was 16 had that started with 12 or eight like this this this chilling Instagram re that I I saw once that uh yeah Chris Williamson I showed it to him and he was like sent me that I want to talk about that at some point as well it's this really dystopian real I can probably find it and put it up here where you see these kids just on phones you see you see these kids in a classroom all of them wearing wearing VR goggles simulation simulation just separation from reality and there's kids who are so tired they can barely fall they they they're about to fall asleep and they're scrolling or they actually falling asleep but they're still doing the movement of scrolling on Tik Tok yeah and it's it's so dystopian horrifying you made a document as well that shows the the the signs of societal collapse our society collapses yeah what what was that document and what was it made for so I I made the document for US Army scops psychological Operations Command and it's a document that you can on three little axes You can predict how close a society is to collapsing and you can throw it up on the screen right now so get ready to take a screenshot and I'm not going to do a three count because Leon will put it in at a wrong time um but one of those talk about it from your perspective having read it and just kind of gone through it yourself so there is there are three sliding scales from 1 to 10 the higher it is or the lower it is I'm not sure lower the lower it is I think might yeah on one out if I'm wrong on one extreme it's it's bad yeah and so one of them is I think separation between individuals yeah which Facebook's goal is to connect people is it really or it has disconnected people more yeah right so there's things like that how much separation is there another thing I don't remember the the other thing the third thing was how close are we to reality yeah in a perfect world we would live in harmony with nature in harmony with ancestral DNA that hasn't caught up yet which I'm not saying we all need to go be naked all day barefoot walking around in the woods eating berries but that would be like the perfect thing for our body well at least move closer to that and the the the worst case would be we're in a simulation we're hooked up on VR goggles and we are not in touch with reality yeah you don't have to worry about Elon musk's digital simulation we're we're in a physical simulation right now and this is one thing I told my kids we were talking about this last night that if a product is being advertised and they can't tell you what problems that the product is solving you need to be very very scared mhm you need to be terrified like look at if you look at amazon.com we bring stuff to your house you don't have to go to the store you get stuff shipped to you faster you have more time to do what you want to do we'll take care of all the shipping and everything and you look at something like VR headset I won't say the name should I say it yes so Amazon is a example of a company that can disclose what problem they're solving openly talk about yeah the problem that they're addressing CU they're actually solving problem which is I don't have to go to a grocery store I can just get it not saying Amazon is a Flawless great company but at least there's utility there's a real need being fulfilled yes right yeah and now if there's VR goggles what problem are they solving iPhones do they do they tell you what problem they solve it's just cool it's just great wouldn't it be great to all these cool features but what problem do I actually have that well it is definitely solving a problem but they're not willing to disclose it correct and it is loneliness depression and a need to anesthetize myself from my real life Escape yeah I mean the the least the most innocent one would be boredom right because you could say what's what's what problem does a movie solve or boredom yeah yeah I guess well same thing with smoking with cigarettes like what problem is it solving right yeah same thing there loneliness if I'm smoking for social reasons boredom yeah and it's a social anesthetic I'm stressed out I need to go have a cigarette or I need to put a dip in is what I would say uh on deployment which you don't have in Germany do you what dip tobacco I was never able to find it in the UK or in like anywhere in the Middle East so you had to like ship these logs of Copenhagen which I don't do anymore I quit a long time ago but that was like that was the hardest thing in my life I've ever done is quit uh dipping tobacco nasty stuff so distance from nature and uh proximity to simulated living and not not some digital Matrix simulation are are the measurements of societal collapse according to the document that I made for the US Army M do you know the third one there's separation between people it's been five years it's all rooted in a lot of data is it information access is it something like that is it I think that might be it we'll throw it up on screen and yeah maybe edit this out so I can pretend like I know what it is I can't remember yeah perfect I do think that is one of the most powerful ways to to predict the proximity to the collapse of a society is how much are they simulating in their everyday life and this we can go back 800 years and people are still there's simulations still going on but it's just become rampant and a lot of this work on simulation if if you're interested in this and it's something that's interesting to you you need to read the book called simulakra and simulation by Jean bodard is a French philosopher and he goes way off into communism and crazy stuff but this one book I think is brilliant and it's is a perfect example of how we are living almost in The Truman Show to where if you start trying to get out and like I'm going to get on the boat like crazy stuff starts happening you get canceled think about the people getting canceled it's like it's it's bizarre and in the real life example the stage that's being put up so for anyone who hasn't seen The Truman Show it's basically this man who's his entire life is a TV show and he doesn't know it because he was born in it I guess he was yeah brainwashed into it whatever and so everything's put together and fake Everyone's an actor Everyone's an actor in his life yeah but and he's the main character of a TV show and he doesn't he doesn't know it and then there's these advertisements that are being read out in a really weird way and he thinks oh it's just weird sometimes people just talk about a product like that yeah but he doesn't know because it's that's his reality life so what is that what do you think that is in in our lives I guess it's just the masks that we wear ourselves and the things that we pretend so it's not just it's not that there's some evil producer who's putting it all together but we're putting it together ourselves ourselves and the people around us are helping to support that simulation and one of the one of the things that happens is Truman starts to see cracks he starts to see little cracks he walks randomly into a building that he never goes into one day and the elevator doors open and he there's no elevator there it's just a break room for all the actors in The Truman Show and he like sees through the set and he sees kind of behind the scenes one day which is like someone in our life realizing that marketing and advertising and all this kind of stuff is ruining us it's it's building a prison that we can't see just like in the trumman show and he starts like questioning reality and the moment he does that everyone around him steps in to say whoa whoa Whoa man you need to come back to come back to earth you need to come back here stay here you need to stay here which is like what our friends do when we start going like hey I don't want to do this anymore I don't want to I don't want to do that I don't want to participate in that it's very eerily similar but the reason that uh Kristoff was the director of the show in the movie played by uh I can't remember his name but the director of The Truman Show in the movie is willing to put him through all this turmoil fires explosions all this stuff to try to keep him in this little world they built for him which is a TV set and Truman is willing to die for the truth he's willing to die for for the truth and if you're in the business of finding truth and your price isn't your life then you you are for sale your version of Truth is for sale you asked me that yesterday how much money would somebody have to pay you to to lie yeah and I said well it depends on the LIE if it's something serious it could really harm someone then I wouldn't doesn't matter if it's like a little lie then or like a joke yeah like if I were for example to lie about somebody being my uncle maybe a neuroscientist on YouTube and then not not actually and it's just a joke then yeah I do it I'd do it for free yeah but so what you said was if if you were willing to tell a serious lie for amount of money even if it's a 100 million even if it's a billion to yourself or to myself oh are you in the business of Truth tell and and I don't mean on YouTube I just mean in my life and that's something we can aspire to be but I don't think we're we're we're flawed little creatures and if if we aspire to truthtellah the wears that we Mark the the the the masks that we wear waiting for the coffee to kick in um the stories we tell ourselves of who we should be where we feel shame social enforcement shame societal shame what can I shame you into believing then I can start controlling your behavior and then you're not you anymore you're simulating a version of you that doesn't have this bad shame quality this is where we see propaganda in World War II World War I why don't you flex your biceps in the middle of a podcast like that how I want you to perceive me I like it yes I could beat you at omous if you're watching this I sent a video of his thighs uh to my wife yesterday versus my thighs the big difference send me that video I'll put it in there um so I mean when I scroll through Instagram I can feel I can feel it even if I'm even if I judge people and I'm like this is this is all pretend this is all this this is all that I can feel man I I feel this stress in me this stress of that guy is more jacked than me this girl looks perfect and and and they have the perfect lifestyle and what am I doing with my life those are the two things that made to make you feel number one compare yourself to other people number two make you feel like you're not enough yet you're not enough yet till something kaching fill in the blank yeah make a purchas I buy stuff I don't anymore up until about four months ago so I'm not saying I'm I've got anything figured out uh and I I'm not one of those people who like oh I'm perfect you need to like follow this example but I was very prone to Instagram ads I bought all kinds of crazy stuff the the watch that I'm wearing right now uh was because of an Instagram ad and it was so powerful that I deleted all the apps off my phone it's I just have it on a office iPad and I have a social media manager now but that is the simulation and if you think about how powerful the simulation is and I don't mean that in some kind of weird sense like we're just faking stuff is all I'm saying um the the power is so grave and the fear of social judgment is so powerful online now that people will stifle themselves they will not speak the truth they won't say anything real anymore they're afraid of being canceled and it's that powerful that I I'm willing to simulate that I agree with this or that I or I'm like have no opinion on this um and that's the ultimate simulation is am I willing to participate in the creation of that for other people by agreeing to it yeah going with the crowd and now once we see it happen to someone and somebody gets like cancelled on social media nothing happens and we're back to the online version of the bystander effect do you think cancelling is a real thing like it actually has an effect because what I see is or what I believe is if someone would have cancel me or basically make an exposed video tons of people jump on it everyone thinks I'm horrible I feel like most of it is just in my head technically I could keep putting out videos like nothing happened yeah and that's what some people do and it then it's fine but it's the perceived feeling of yeah and that stress is fake and none of it's real and it's just I guess it's just the reaction to it that really messes people up yeah the the the stress that it puts on them and then they stop putting stuff out because of that it's not actually that and it's it is shaming it is we will never forget it that you did this that you you allegedly even if it's not true and what I'm saying is there's no ultimate truth I'm not saying hey here are the six steps you need to follow to get like the perfect life just saying spend more time in nature be closer to who you truly are like who do I who did I want to be when I was little who do I really need to be right now and how can I like involve passion in the life I'm living I made I kind of forced you to watch a movie clip last night and it's one of the most beautiful things in the world you kind of forced me yeah that was your experience of it it felt that way cuz I'm not the guy I'm not a video showing kind of guy that's funny you put it that way no but I I was on my phone I was trying to get back to an important message so I'm probably came across as yeah so we I started playing this video and he's texting so I kind of I did this on his leg I was like this you need to watch this yeah and I was like okay and I was like oh the final message I haven't sent it yet but I really enjoyed that I maybe I can included I think we should get away with it it's it's a beautiful thing that that some that Nicholas Cage playing this guy who used to own or owns this truffle sniffing Pig and he needs his Pig back but he sees this Chef in a restaurant that has turned his entire being into a simulated person and a simulated restaurant and Nick Cage sits down and he says none of this is real you know that right nothing's real these people aren't real you're not real and it's just this guy has this Awakening there's a moment where he breaks and he's looking at his restaurant that he's crafted based on what people want what people like what he thinks will get him liked yeah which is he's starting to defend the prison he's starting to defend no no this is what this you have to do it this way this is what people want and Nick kind of breaks him out of that and that I think that's so beautiful he he may have been mean about it or something but just helping someone to realize it's like you're better than this these people who you're craving admiration from don't care about you you're getting your dopamine from all the wrong places you're getting 90% of your dopamine from running this restaurant or whatever you're doing running your Instagram account and 10% from your kids and your family and things that you're passionate about and Dr Phil pulled me aside or where at dinner one night and do Dr Phil said sitting right beside me kind of at the corner of a table and I was asking him about getting nervous and and going on stage and all this stuff and he squeezed my arm and he said this is one of the most deadly diseases you could ever have it's the the desire for Love from strangers and that was like I was the chef in that moment and I keep having these moments where I realize where I'm being that Chef all throughout my life and I'm trying now I'm I used to avoid that I try to like force myself into those situations now like show me what I'm what I'm still faking what am I still faking and that's what mushrooms do by the way is kind of they really show you your BS but that quote from Dr Phil it was just between him and I saying you need affection from strangers that made me that shook me to my core and and changed the the direction of my life I've never told him this uh and he's probably too busy to watch but maybe I'll send him this clip MH and in that scene what Nicholas Cage reveals to the chef is didn't you want to start a what was it an Irish Pub yeah start a pub a proper English pub and you can see him shoving that aside it's like oh no people wouldn't want that that's here in this town like but you can see there's like this passion that's Brewing inside of him that this innocent touched desire and passion that he had to start this yeah that was suppressed and the first time I watched that clip I was in the I was in Nicholas Cage POV I was like I'm the badass you identified as him yeah because I wanted to be the cool guy in the scene right and I watched it a couple more times and I was like I'm still the chef in many ways I can be Nick Cage for a lot people but I'm somebody else still is always going to keep being Nick Cage for me and I'm still the chef in many situations so I think that's why it's so beautiful because you can if you're honest I think if somebody's honest and they can see whoa that's me they can really reflect in in some of that behavior it's some of the best acting I've ever seen too I think we all are that Chef that maske wearing people pleasing prison maintaining Chef in some areas in our lives for me it was partly in the old channel right where I had a vision for what I wanted to build the things that I wanted to talk about and I think every creator has that everyone who's building a business yeah you have the opportunity to make a lot of money with something but is that the thing that you want to do so one thing that I always got to go back to is what's the vision because I know how to make tons of money I know how to get tons of views I know how to please those people but are those the people that I want to serve and is that the stuff that I want to make and so I get off track and I need to bring myself back on track and so starting the new channel for the the long fun podcast starting with a clean slate different audience different expectations has been so freeing for me and you you did this in the car on the way over here we were riding in the back of an Uber on the way here and I told you I was like if you do this this and this it's going to get a shitload of views and you then you look back at me you're like but who is the type of person clicking on that that's not what I want uh and that was that was huge because I didn't think I didn't even think about that I thought YouTube was just for views I didn't think about like who's the desired audience here for this yes not all views are the same I'd rather have a thousand people watching who are intelligent they're open-minded they understand nuances then dumb things down and get 100,000 views on something and yeah you have to keep it dumb to keep reaching a wide audience yeah make a box for it yeah pop some whipped cream balloons in there give somebody 10K in a parking lot yes and I mean this is where everyone listening can look at where am I doing that in my life where am I getting validation from people that I I why am I doing this and you told me about this yesterday as well you mapped out where you're getting dopamine from yeah not valid not just validation but specifically dopamine yeah where am I getting where am I motivated to go seek validation which is dopamine so I'm D I'm driven to get motivation from this one place or to get uh validation or acceptance or a good feeling even if I'm by myself if I'm drinking alcohol or or whatever that is and if I the you want me to walk through the dopamine map so the way that I do this with any of my clients we have like a regular sheet of paper we draw a line in the middle with a little circle in the center of it and that like kind of like a basketball court and we put me right there in the middle and on the left is all the all the sources of dopamine that are good for me right all the sources that are bad for me and I make the clients draw a big circle for big sources smaller circles for smaller sources because I want them to see that in a lot of ways sometimes we'll see porn a circle is this big and Family Circle is this big small yeah and getting to the point where you see that it's I had that for my life I did that for me and social media was big on there really big it's like how many views am I getting on YouTube and we we have I think I have a million subscribers total now and um it's meaningless utterly meaningless and it's one of the best feelings in the world of not needing that love from strangers but I'm still putting out good content I'm I'm putting making videos as if it's to my family and if if you map out your dopamine it shows you it's a very unusual reminder and a visual thing where I can see what my brain is doing and what the final thing I made with the clients do is out of a 100 you have 100 points and you have to assign a point value of dopamine that equals 100 you have to allocate for all where am I getting this little validation and stuff from MH and then it's it's very difficult to have to sit there and write 65 on cocaine or you know whatever I'm doing and and put a 12 next to my kids how do I know something is high is it that I'm very motivated to seek that when I look at the actions that I take throughout the day not what I want to Value but what I actually value with actions is that what determines the the size of the uh I I determine it by proximity so how close are you to that thing time how much time of your day does it occupy and feeling like do you feel good while doing it does that make sense so like am I driven am I motivated to go do this thing MH not necessarily do I feel good after getting it but not after yeah because you can feel empty but still keep pursuing it yeah so it's it's am I motivated to pursue that yeah so if you don't feel good after something that's a good indicator that that's a dopaminergic thing and not a serotonergic thing it's not love it's not oxytocine is the Feelgood chemical which it's it's not it's the it's actually the Gap chemical it's I want I'm I'm going that's what makes a baby crawl yeah dopamine makes our muscles move towards things and it makes our muscles move so if you look at somebody with Parkinson's that's a dopaminergic pathway Disorder so it's a dopamine disorder because their muscles are kind of shutting down and getting the hand trimers and things like that U so dopamine is so much more than oh it makes me feel good if I if I had liquid dopamine and put it in your neck you would not feel good you would you would try to peel your skin off and and escape from this feeling of like needing to move so much it's insane so map out dopamine and then what do we do with that once we know is being aware of it enough because this ties into everything that we talked about with we live in a world that we've constructed on who we should be we're not enough this is the mask I should wear this is what's accepted and then I guess creating the map can allow us to become aware of oh this is where I'm falling into the Trap of needing validation from these strangers yeah is just being aware enough of it or do you think I think it is because it would be easy for me to say yeah download my free three-step course right now to remap your dopamine so you can be the link down below so you can be enough but I don't think there's a plan that's that fits everybody but I think the lower part of our brain the part of our brain that keeps us breathing at night keeps our heartbeating at night this mamalian part of our brain can handle that stuff it knows how to handle those problems it's been around a lot longer than our frontal cortex it's smarter in many many ways so if I every day I'm maybe drawing a dopamine map or every day getting that back into my awareness that that I can't talk to my lower brain I can't talk to the amalian brain right because it doesn't speak English I'm pushing that awareness back down into that brain as much as I possibly can that goes into something called the reticular activating system or the What's called the reticular formation is the actual part of the brain so I just whatever you want to change in your life anything you want to change in your life jam it down into that part of the brain and the way to jam it down in the part of the brain is how can I communicate this to a dog I remember you talking about this the last episode that's it it requires imagery emotion and other sensory input smell and then repetition mhm just training a dog if there's a formula that I used to teach for actual brainwashing and it works the same to brainwash ourselves out of a behavior or into a new Behavior it's Focus emotion agitation and repetition it spells fear so agitation meaning I'm going to change my environment very regularly so my brain doesn't go into I'm familiar with this mode so it's like wow these walls are a different color in my office this my couch in my living rooms in a different place I'm going continuously move things around to force my brain to see the lower brain to say things are new you need to pay attention interesting so if if I wanted to build the driven Community into a cult brainwash them into things that are obviously only good for them a good cult a good cult because there are good Cults out there I was a member of One for 20 years it's called US military yeah what are some suggestions how can I build a raving community of people who love being around like-minded people who love challenging each other supporting each other and um yeah really committed number one thing is to have an identity statement around where they be come so this is the first step if if you're creating a cult Step One is whatever you're inside of you have an identity statement where a person can complete the sentence of I am a veteran I am a it's a it's a badge of honor right and no it's not identity for me to say I'm a member of The Driven Community it's it's identity when I say I am a 38 or whatever name that you want to give it so first step is identity labeling so second step is Insider language so we have words to describe people that are non-members civilians right that's one of the things you told me yesterday it is yeah civilians civilians different crowd and then so after that you have a initial kind of a wakeup call and you want people to go through some kind of assessment that shows them all their ver vulnerabilities Without You exploiting them and that would be the difference between a bad cult would say let me see your vulnerabilities I'm going to record them on this video here and save it in case you ever do anything stupid and B I'm going to use them all against you instead of help you with them so get them to aware of their vulnerabilities because just like what we talked about if I'm aware of something often enough it starts going away if it's a problem and finally well there's a million on the third thing what does that mean what vulnerabilities vulnerabilities to let's say someone signs up for the driven Community I can help you build this if you want but you have like here's our 28 question thing that keeps you from being your best driven self need to work on The Branding a little bit but I like where this is going whatever it is yeah and like here's like and the person knows I'm low on this I'm low on that I'm low on that so if I focus on just what I'm good at we need to we need to know our insecurities right cuz imagine if like my kids are in elementary school and they're failing math they're failing English they're failing history and I say oh yeah don't worry about that let's focus on what you're good at it's a recipe for failure if the engine fails in your car you're not going to go change your brakes because your brakes are good well it's like going to school and not having any grades you don't even know if you're failing at math right yeah so letting people get aware of that helps them to bring those things up and you keep it private to them it's not some publicly open thing but having making the group a source of dopamine is number one which means that you need to deliver unexpected bonuses on a regular basis that the person's not expecting they're getting dopamine just waiting for the next one not from receiving the first MH so they get excitement because of the first that dopamine for the next and the and the continu ones and then the other ways that the group becomes a source of dopamine is that you're continually sharing content that is good quality but it's with other members and someone achieving something they're witnessing someone that's a member of the community achieving a milestone or goal that is similar to their own they get dopamine for themselves moving forward in their life and they get dopamine for the next video the next interaction group call whatever it is so what I'm really thinking of if I'm if I'm a cult leader is how can I direct and issue dopamine as if it were a a ticket that I'm handing out on a regular basis and if you're doing the right things you're helping people with their life and and there's a standard for ethics that I have we talked about this last night like if I'm influencing another person and they could genuinely see inside of my head my Integrity my character my my desire and my intent for what I'm doing in this situation and they would still agree with it then then we're doing the right thing uh if they wouldn't go ahead and sign up for it if they saw everything that's in my head then I'm not doing a good thing yeah and I'm being unethical yeah so I guess even sharing this and being like Hey how do I get people to be really committed and really love this so much that they they want to stay in it and stuff like that and contribute is part of that right yeah and just having those meetups around the world so setting up a way for them to meet up in person and if they're ever in trouble the entire Community comes together like a beehive to like one person loses their company or goes bankrupt or something everybody gives them a th000 bucks or five grand or something like that and that's like a policy uh so it's like a beehive mindset yeah another thing you mentioned that I loved is an initiation process yeah right they have to drink some blood maybe I I didn't say that okay no that was my idea no wait uh let's not do the bad thing let's do it in in a good way but initiation process some way to and again like all of these things you see in universities you see it in sports teams you see it in companies Apple whatever you see it in even the science Community like science is a massive cult yeah it is anything that's not science that's BS that's outside us sharing a win is oh they this University these scientists they discovered this oh wow right there is the initiation can be something as simple as like every time somebody joins we do this one weird thing and everybody remembers it forever and a great piece of initiation if you ever want to incorporate this and make it truly memorable is their first day is a member of the community Comm they write a letter to their future self a thank you letter got it so they write that letter their future self maybe triggered her on an auto email or something like that but I would say it needs to be printed out needs to be handwritten if possible and they open it in a year and so they're encouraging their future self they're doing all this and then now they're looking back and you have them kind of encapsulated this little time capsule where they're interested in their growth they're actually working hard to make their goals come true cuz now they got to read that letter and have people share their letter A year later yeah I just received my letter from a year ago yeah wow that would be really interesting and you're required to share it I love that that's great I'm going to start doing that I just I'm going to start doing that with my VIP clients cool I'm going to do it before you so it looks like you copied me I'm going to do it first okay we'll see about I'm going to do it soon as we W recording awesome um where can people find out more about you what you do what you have coming up um go to NCI do University that's n is in November NCI University NCI do University or just type CH us into Google awesome and you have a new book coming out new book coming out in October it's called exit a user's guide to the simulation not the digital one not the digital one awesome thank you thanks man