[Music] I was the first one to be picked up so they put me in a Cell they locked me in there in this degrading little outfit hey I don't want anybody that viation the rules simulation I got to go to a doctor anything Jesus Christ I'm burning up insight don't you know I've never screamed so loud in my life never been so upset in my life it was an experience of being out of control I just [ __ ] can't take it Stanford University Northern California one of America's most prestigious academic institutions and in 1971 the scene of one of the most most notorious experiments in the history of [Music] psychology I was interested in what happens if you put good people in an evil [Music] Place does the situation outside of you the institution come to control your behavior or does the things inside of you your attitude your values your morality uh allow you to to rise above uh a negative EnV environment the negative environment zimbardo chose to test his ideas was a prison he would convert the basement of the University's psychology department into a Subterranean jail we put uh prison doors on each of three office cells in the cells there was nothing but three beds uh and and there was very actually very little room for anything else cuz they were very small and here we had solitary confinement which we called the Hole uh and in the hole was was place where prisoners would be put for punishment it was a very very small area when you closed the door it was totally [Music] dark all the guards wore military uniforms and we had them wear these silver reflecting sunglasses and what it does is you can't see someone's eyes and so that loses some of the the humanness the humanity in general we wanted to create a sense of power that is the guards as a category are people who have power over others in this case power over the prisoners a decade earlier psychologist Stanley Milgram had also looked at how we respond to Authority in order to understand how people were induced to obey unjust regimes and participate in atrocities such as the Holocaust he set up an experiment volunteers were told they were taking part in scientific research to improve memory did you open those and tell me which of you was with please teer separated by a screen the teacher would ask the learner questions in a word game and administer an electric shock when the answer was incorrect he was told to increase the voltage with each wrong answer Cloud horse Rock House answer wrong 150 volts answer horse experiment that's all get me out of here get me out of here please continue please right I refuse to go in let me out you refuses to go in the experiment requires you continue teacher please continue participants didn't know that the learner was really an actor and the so-called shocks harmless you're going to get a shot 180 Vols oh I can't stand the pain let me out of here stand I'm not going to kill that man there I mean who's going to take the responsibility for anything happens to that gentlemen I'm responsible for anything that happens here continue please all right next one slow walk dance truck music two3 of volunteers were prepared to administer a potentially fatal electric shock when encouraged to do so by what they perceived as a legitimate authority figure in this case a man in a white coat 375 Vol I think something's happened to I falling there I don't get no answer he was holler or L vage can't you check in and see if he's all right please milgram's findings horrified America they showed that decent American citizens were as capable of committing acts against their conscience as the Germans had been under the Nazis like mgrm zimbardo was interested in the power of social situations to overwhelm individuals his experiment would test people's responses to an oppressive regime would they accept it or act against it Zim's experiment was conducted against a backdrop of civil rights activism and protest against the Vietnam War there was a sense of student power student dominance and student Rebellion against against Authority in general it was from the student body that zimad selected his participants after passing tests to screen out anyone with a psychological abnormality they were paid $15 a day each was randomly assigned to the role of guard or prisoner it was a prison to me it still is a prison to me I don't look on it as an experiment or a simulation was just a a prison that was run by psychologists instead of run by the state I was 20 and that September I was going to college and it would be nice to have a summer job but there sure wasn't a lot of time left and I looked in the W ads and I found this thing which was just going to fit it was just 2 weeks once you put a uniform on and are given a job to keep these people in line you really become that person once you put on that khaki uniform you put on the glasses you put on you take the night stick I was on summer break from my first year in college and uh I was looking for a job had to choose between that and making pizzas that sounded like a lot more fun as well as running the experiment zimbardo took on the role of prison superintendent he began by briefing the guards I said you have to maintain Law and Order if prison is escaped the study is over and you can't use physical violence you can create a sense of fear in them you can create notion that their life is totally controlled by us and that the constant surveillance we have total power in the situation and they have [Applause] none prisoners were brought to the basement prison blindfolded to confuse them about their whereabouts they were stripped and deloused of course the guards started making fun of their genitals and humiliating them and really it's a start of what's known as a degradation process which not only prisons but lots of military type outfits Ed that process when I first got here even though like I had the strip and they would call call me names I still didn't feel at all like I was in the prison I was just looking at it as a job I recall sort of walking up and down the very short hallway which was the prison Hall and looking in on the prisoners in there basically lounging around on their beds I felt it was like the day in summer camp the first day I said this might be a very long very boring experiment uh because it's conceivable nothing will happen I arrived independently at the conclusion that this experiment must have been put together to prove a point about prisons being a cruel and inhumane place and therefore I would do my part you know to to help those results come about I was a confrontational and arrogant 18-year-old at the time and uh you know I said somebody ought to stir things up a bit here [ __ ] this experiment at fu dror zimo on the second morning the prisoners had decided to stir things up as well the guards found some of them had used their beds to barricade their cell prisoner 8612 was one of the Ring leaders of the Rebellion simulation it's a [ __ ] simulated experiment no prison they take your bed in your clothes in prison initially I was stunned I didn't expect the Rebellion because not much happened and it wasn't clear what they were what they were rebelling against but they were rebelling against the status rebelling against being anonymous against um having to follow orders from from these these other students as punishment for the Rebellion prisoner 8612 was put in the hole and the guards turned on the other prisoners the guards felt that they now have to up the ante of being tough the prisoners made the mistake of beginning to use profanity against the guards in a very personalized way so not against the guards but you know you little punk you you big [ __ ] and so and the guards got Furious everybody well gentlemen here it is time for count prisoners were repeatedly woken in the middle of the night the guards made them do menial physical tasks and clean out toilets with their bare hands we made it a a point to not give them any sense of of comfort or what to expect that you know that anything could happen to them at any time time including being red from their sleep at any hour and forced to stand up in a line and have me hurl insults at them and make them do exercises when you interrupt people's sleep they tend to become a little disoriented and since there was no daylight in the prison they had no idea whether it was night or day I think that I was the instigator of this uh whole schedule of harassment the harassment of the guards took its toll on Rebellion leader 8612 he told zimbardo he wanted to leave the experiment zimad responded not as a psychologist but as a prison superintendent I said well I can see to it the guards don't hassle you personally uh and in return all I would like is some information from time to time about what the prisoners are doing so essentially I'm saying I'd like you to be a snitch an Informer and I said think it over and if you still want to leave fine confused prisoner 8612 returned to his cell and told the other prisoners that no one could leave they let me out get out of here he believed that we wouldn't let him go although we've never said that but the fact that he was the ring leader of the rebellion and he told the other prisoners they won't let you leave and that really transformed the experiment into a prison I was told that I couldn't quit and at that point I just felt totally hopeless more hopeless than I'd ever felt before soon after returning to his cell prisoner 8612 started showing signs of severe distress God damn it [ __ ] up you don't know you don't know I mean God I mean Jesus Christ I'm burning up inside don't you know I just [ __ ] can't take it he came up with a plan that if he acted crazy we would have to release releas him I feel so [ __ ] up inside I feel really [ __ ] up inside you don't know I got to go I to a doctor anything I can't say that I'm [ __ ] up I don't know how to explain all [ __ ] up inside oh out oh no it starts with make believe and then he's doing it and cursing and screaming and you know whatever that little boundary is that he he he moved across not that he became really crazy but uh he became you know excessively Disturbed I mean so much so that we immediately said we have to release him as an experience it it was unique I've never screamed so loud in my life um I've never been so upset in my life and it was an experience of being out of control the boundary between reality and make believe was to become blurred even for zimbardo a rumor circulated that released prisoner 8612 would return with friends to liberate the remaining prisoners I quickly convinced myself that you know my most important function was you know not to allow this prison Liberation to occur and what can I do to keep my prison going not the experiment going the prison was dismantled and the prisoners moved to another part of the building Zim waited in the empty Corridor preparing to tell 8612 and his friends that the study was over when a colleague appeared and began asking questions about the scientific basis of the research I'm trying to get rid of him then he says what's the independent variable I get furious because he doesn't understand that there's a riot about to take place that this prison is about to erupt I had totally lost this whole other identity of scientists researchers psychologists the rumor jailbreak never materialized the guards had dismantled the prison for nothing and had to rebuild it they took their frustration out on the prisoners they escalated again the level of control the level of dominance the level of humiliating [Music] Behavior 819 was the next prisoner to rebel against the harassment of the guards he barricaded himself in his cell and refused to take part in the count you're not only not getting a cigarette but for as long as it cell's block you're going to be in soier and you get out like a weapon for 819 Disobedience the guards made his cellmates do mindless work this undermined any vesage of solidarity amongst the prisoners who now chose to accept the tyranny of the guards rather than risk further harassment that was one of the surprising things to me is that there was so little uh that the prisoners did to support one another after we started our campaign of you know divide and conquer isolated and distraught prisoner 819 tolds he wanted to leave while I'm interviewing the 819 uh and saying okay you know it's all over thank you for your participation you know I'll give you money for the whole for the whole two weeks uh even though you're leaving early he hears the prisoner shouting 819 did a bad thing 819 did a bad thing 819 did a bad thing 819 and he said I can't leave and he's crying and he says I can't leave said what do you mean you can't leave he said I have to go back cuz I don't want them to think you know that I'm a bad prisoner and that's that's when I really flipped out that in such a such a short time you know a college student's thinking could become so distorted I said you're not a bad prison you're not a prison and this is not a prison and it was this thing where he opened his eyes it was just really like a cloud being lifted seeing things clearly prisoner 819 reverted to his original request and was released to replace him the experimenters called in one of their reserves from the standby list I got a phone call saying are you still available as an alternate U kind of cheery female secretary voice I said yes sure and so she said could you start this afternoon and I said yes sure and my role in The Experiment really began I was blindfolded and then stripped and supposedly deloused he came into a mad house full-blown all of us had gradually acclimated to the increasing level of aggression the increasing powerlessness of the prisoners increasing dominance of the guards and he comes in and says what's happening here to the other prison and they said hey you better not make trouble it's really terrible it's a real prison uh and uh and he says you know I'm out of here I I I don't want and they said no then not you can't leave once you're here you're stuck this is a real prison 416 since you got your hands in the air why don't you play Frankenstein 209 you can be the Bride of Frankenstein you stay here prisoner 416 was soon subjected to the harassment of Dave echelman nicknamed John Wayne because of his Macho attitude 416 and I want you to walk over here like Frankenstein and say that you love 293 I made the decision that I would be as intimidating as cold as cruel as possible I love you yeah of course get up close I love you I love you you smile you get down here do 10 push-up two I just watched a movie called Cool Hand Luke and uh the mean intimidating uh you know Southern prison Warden character in that film really was my inspiration for the role that I created for myself why did you try to be obedient so much it's my nature to be obedient spiritual La you lie he was s he was creative in his evil he would think of very ingenious ways to degrade to demean um the prisoners what if I told you to get down in that CL and [ __ ] the FL what would you do then one of the best guards were was also on that shift and uh instead of confronting this bad guard the sadistic guard essentially because he didn't want to see what was happening he became the Gopher he would go out to get the food and things of this kind and that left the John wank guard and another guard on that shift to be dominant we were continually called upon to act in a way that just is contrary to what I really feel inside just continually giving out [ __ ] this just really one of the most oppressive things you can do never 416 while they do push-ups you sing Amazing Grace Ready down on your own The Madness of the experiment started to affect prisoner 416 keep going I began to feel that I was losing my identity until finally I wasn't played I was 416 I was really my number and 416 was going to have to decide what to do prisoner 416 decided to go on a hunger strike they were pushing my limits but here was a thing that I could do that could push their limits after I had missed a couple of meals I saw that this was not a matter of indifference to the guard I was making Headway they were upset I thought how dare this newcomer come in and and try to change everything that we had worked for the first 3 days to set up and uh by God he's going to suffer for that get in that CL then frustrated by his continued Defiance John Wayne threw prisoner 416 into the hole after punishing the other prisoners for his Disobedience John Wayne encouraged them to vent their anger at 416 directly thank you 416 okay 209 thank you 416 we would use our night sticks to bang on the door and we would kick the door so hard that you know it must have you know shaken him very seriously inside scared the life out of him he yelled at me and threatened me and actually sort of smashed a sausage into my face to try to get me to open up but yeah I didn't have any intention of eating until I was out okay 416 should have been at some level a hero because he's willing to oppose the authority of the system in fact so the prisoners accept the guard's definition of him as a trouble make it I remember some of them saying you know would you eat godamn it you know we're sick and tired of this and uh you know that was proof that you know there was no solidarity there was no support between the prisoners while 416 was still in the hole John Wayne made a final attempt to break him by giving his fellow prisoners a choice they could vote to release him by making a small sacrifice you can give me the blankets and sleep on the bare mattress or you can keep your blankets and 416 will stay in another day now what would it be I'll keep my blank will it be over here how about 5486 I'll give you my blanket you don't want his blanket we got three in favor of keeping a blanket we got three gu one keep your blankets 416 you're going to be in there for a while so just get used to it the study showed that power corrupts and how difficult it is for people who are the victims of abuse to stand up and defend themselves why why doesn't anybody who was being abused by a spouse or something like that just say stop it um and we realize now that that's not as easy as it [Music] sounds by the end of the fifth day four prisoners had broken down and been released 416 was on the second day of his hunger strike and the experiment still had another 9 days to run at this point a fellow psychologist visited Zim's basement prison and would witness the brutality of the experiment firsthand the guards had lined up the prisoners to go to the toilet had bags over their head chains on their feet and were marching by and I looked up and I saw this this circus this parade and I said hey Chris you know look at that I looked up and I just began to feel sick to my stomach I had this just chilling sickening feeling of watching this and I just you know I just turned away and I just let loose in this emotional tiring I just lost it I was angry scared I I was in tears and I'm furious I'm saying you're supposed to you know we had a big argument you're supposed to be a psychologist this is this interesting Dynamic behavior and such a few day I'm going through this whole thing the power of the situation says no no it's that young boys are suffering and you are responsible you're letting it happen I said oh my god of course you're right the next day zimbardo ended the experiment studies like his stimulated heated debate about the ethics of using human subjects clearly young men suffered verbally physically prisoners felt shame in their role guards felt guilt so in that sense it's it's unethical that is nobody has the right the power the privilege to do that to other people in the wake of experiments like zimbardo and mgms ethical guidelines changed introducing greater safeguards to protect participants in the Stanford experiment zimbardo might have spared his volunteers distress had he not taken on a dual role in the study if I was going to be the prison superintendent I should have had a colleague who was overseeing the experiment uh who was in a position to stop it at any point or I should have been the Principal investigate and get somebody who was going to be the prison superintendent I realized that was a big mistake to play both those roles and shifting back and [Music] forth after the experiment zimb brought all the participants together to talk about their experiences John Wayne would now come face to face with the hunger Striker he had tormented I was a little worried I said oh my God he's really going to come down on me hard now uh now that we're on equal uh footing it harms me how did it harm you how does it harm you just to think about it you mean that people can be like like that yeah it let me in on some knowledge that that I've never experienced firsthand uhh because I know what you can turn into I know what you're willing to do when I look back on it now I behaved appallingly um you know it's just a horid to look at I think I tried to explain to him at the time that you know what you experienced and what you hated so much was was a role that I was playing that that's not me at all I love you to he was trying to dissociate himself from what he had done that did make me angry everyone was acting out a part and playing a role prisoners guards staff everyone was acting out aart um it's when you start contributing to the script that's you and thus it's something you should take responsibility for uh I didn't see where it was really harmful it was degrading and that was that was part of my particular little experiment to see how I could uh your particular little experiment why don't you tell me about that I was I was running little experiments of my own tell me about your little experiments I'm curious I wanted to to see just what kind of verbal abuse that people can take before they start objecting before they start flashing back if I have any regret right now it's that you know I made that decision because it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had um had I not decided to to force things it could be that I only accelerated them that the same things would have happened uh but we'll never know if the extreme nature of Dave echelman's Behavior tested the prisoners it also presented the other guards with a choice to intervene or not it surprised me that no one said anything to stop me they just accepted what I said and no one questioned my authority at all and it really shocked me why didn't people when I started to get abuse people so much I started to get so profane that and still people didn't say anything there were a few guards who hated to see the prisoners suffer they never did anything which would be demeaning of the Prisoners the interesting thing is none of the good guards ever intervened in the behavior of the guards who gradually became more and more sadistic over time we like to think there is this core of human nature that good people can't do bad things and that uh good people will dominate over bad situations in fact one way to look at the standord prison stud is that we put good people in an evil place and we saw who won well the sad message is in this case the evil Place won over the good people it did show some very interesting and maybe some unpleasant things about human behavior it seems like you know every Century every decade that we go through U you know we're suffering the same kind of atrocities and uh you need to understand why these things happen you need to understand why people behave like [Music] this there's a similar experiment starting this Tuesday night on BBC 2 details coming up [Music] next [Applause]