hello and thank you for listening to the Oprah podcast hello to you watching on YouTube we are diving into today healing relationships with our loved ones and the one that matters the most our relationship with ourselves it's the ultimate I want you to welcome with me Dr T Bryant can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit it's depleting I'll tell you that much you are not actually grieving the relationship you're grieving your idea of what you thought the relationship would be that is so powerful for too long we are made to believe that we must say yes to everything and I want to tell you the Holiness of no no is a sacred word a Holiness of no I like that I heard that Let the church say Amen a graduate of Duke University Dr Tama Bryant who goes by Dr T is a clinical psychologist a professor of psychology at Pepperdine University and an ordained minister Dr T is the author of three books and is the host of the popular the homecoming podcast which raises awareness about mental health your latest book is called matters of the heart which I was even so touched by the title matters of the heart healing your relationship with yourself and those you love and let me say to all of you who are watching or listening this book is a treasure it's a treasure Trove of wisdom for any phase of your life and we have you covered on this episode whatever you're going through Dr T talks about how to set better boundaries forgiving without receiving an apology yes I'm G to say that again forgiving without receiving an apology don't we all want to know how to do that investing deeper in your current relationships and releasing those in your life who just are not healthy for you to let them as Mel Robin said on our previous podcast to let them go and you start the book with this I love this so much I come to this work as your facilitator you say someone who has experienced living with a full heart living A busy life with a neglected heart going through the deep sea diving of living with a broken heart and Tenderly and compassionate healing my heart why did you need to heal your own heart there were first of all I want to say thank you Oprah for having me this is so wonderful and something I have been looking forward to uh being able to share this work with the public because many of us are walking around with broken hearts and I like to say my understanding of healing my heart is not just from uh doctoral studies or reading books but having lived it so to know firsthand that it's possible to heal our hearts uh the first way I would say my heart was broken is something I know you can relate to the realities of racism and sexism yes that cause us to not see our own Beauty yes and so to be brokenhearted as a chocolate girl in Baltimore to not be able to see the full Glory of who I am and so I had to heal my sense of myself because of all of the messages that bomb bared us very early to say that we're not enough and then moving further along while I was uh in high school my father was elected to be a bishop in the AM church we moved to can I just stop everybody right now cuz I have known you since you were a little girl that's right because bethl am Church y'all in Baltimore was the center of our not just the city uh but the spiritual culture yes for the city that's right and when I first moved mov from My Father's House in Nashville and moved to Baltimore the first thing he said to me was find yourself a church home and bethl became my church home and I used to sit in I used to come to 8:00 service right because you couldn't get in 11:00 service I used to drive all the way from Columbia Maryland and I would be mesmerized by your father and your mother yes and your mother thank you thank you so much you were just an itty bitty I was a little bitty that's why like seven eight years old seeing you and we would see you on the news yes and then see you at church which is such a great example for us to know what's possible wow that this reflection is more than attainable did I ever tell you this that I became a tither at bethl it became my stabilizing Force being a 22y old girl moving to a city and not knowing anybody that was not just my church home it became my home my community my people wow it was it was everything for me it is everything Community is so important uh for us healing and so uh that was a part of we talk about like the broken heart yes uh when I was a college student at Duke University I came home to Baltimore for a visit and a member of our church sexually assaulted me you talk about heartbreak yes heartbreak I it is that break of trust when you think uh you're safe in someone's presence absolutely or we assume you know oh if you're in a faith community everyone is going to be caring and loving and so that was like a disruption I'll say before that I was a straight A student and for the first time like I couldn't focus I couldn't concentrate I had to go speak to a Dean uh and there was one black Dean at uh Duke University who had the same last name Dean Briant and I just came to her in all of my uh Despair and had to heal my heart so that this has been a long journey up until this year uh this past year the passing of my mother know right which is another heartbreak but I love what you shared in a prior episode of they never leave us I definitely feel her presence uh today every day when I'm Can you feel it even it's different it's different but it's there and it's real she's there yeah so that feels good in chapter one of matters of the heart you reinforce for us the importance of self-compassion and you define it this way to be compassionate toward yourself means I love this you've created space for the fullness of your complex identity and your complicated life including your fractured heart the aim is to be able to look at yourself with honesty and appreciation and the reason why I it stopped me in my tracks because I thought wow so many people are walking around with fractured Hearts yes yes we have so many layers and parts of ourselves that we discard or that we hide because we desire to be acceptable yes so it's like what part of me did I tuck away in order for other people to give validation or approval yes and so Gathering those broken pieces so I can be wholly me and the essence of matters of the heart may I share with you all is that you got to take care of yourself first you got to practice compassion for yourself first before you can begin to give it to other people and what is the best way for people to practice self-compassion Dr T yeah a big part of it is self-acceptance and recognizing you can feel more than one thing at the same time and you can be more than one thing at the same time sometimes we don't give ourselves Grace because we have this idea of perfection that doesn't leave room for our Humanity so I can have compassion on myself I say if you look far enough back at your story your dips and Dives and Falls make sense sometimes we don't look at ourselves in context so we're like why did I do that or I'm so stupid or what's wrong with me but if you tell me the fullness of your story where you landed made sense and then you talk about this overextending yourself result in depletion I mean we have seen that over and over and over again particularly in our community where women have given and given and given and there is nothing left and then don't understand why they are depleted but you're saying that is the absolute counter opposite of having self-compassion but how do you H this is the thing I was reading that I was thinking about all the people who were saying easy for you to say Oprah easy for you to say Dr T give yourself self-compassion when you are the number one bread winner when you are the one taking care of everybody and there's nobody there to take care of you where is there room for self-compassion right what I say to that is your current way of living is unsustainable and so we self-destruct and even when we say I don't have time to heal even we'll say I'm too busy to be depressed well depression will catch you no matter how busy you are so what it becomes is it's necessary for us to train our eyes to see the ways that it's showing up so it might not look like so for example with black women sometimes our despair shows up as irritability so then people say you have a bad attitude no she's in despair but if I am uh harsh if I am hardworking if I'm a workaholic if I'm a perfectionist if I'm busy all the time other people will celebrate that but I'm empty on the inside mhm so it becomes not valuing myself cuz everybody else is saying good job but when I lay myself down at night then what do I say and what do I feel and I choose to pour into myself so that it can actually be well so what should you be pouring should you be pouring prayers should be pouring preparing you know pouring in silence should what what should you be pouring in yeah so there are because I think so many and we're speaking to all of you who are just overwhelmed you're overwhelmed and depleted yes yes so one of the things that we pour in is rest and Stillness and many of us don't know how to be still and we will say to ourselves I don't have time to be still I have time right I have to do a million things and the reality is uh that if we don't stop ourselves our bodies or Minds will stop us and that's what see happen time and time again meaning illness yes so we get sick and we know you know one of the things the research shows is the way our autoimmune disorders and systems for women when we suppress our anger we suppress our feeling we neglect ourselves and it shows up in the body and so then now you have to be still now you have to be still I know I heard another scientist say yeah the the sickness often is your body's way of saying time out I'm done I've done I don't have anything else to yes and then it shows up uh in our minds and our mental health yeah so you mentioned prayer and our spiritual practice is important and it has to come from an authentic Place sometimes we're doing public relations in our prayers like these and THS and we want it to sound holy uh but in order for it to be effective it has to be honest yeah right and so for us to be true in our prayers and I'm going to say even for meditation and some people say oh I don't know if meditation is against my religion being still being still and Silent is against your religion so for us to tune into our breath and into our bodies and then our food affects our mood and so what do I nourish myself what do and I like to say I'm eating this because I love myself yes I'm eating this cuz I want to live right uh and so then feeding myself loving relationships I I think one of the things that I uh really appreciate about matters of heart is that it's not like flipping a switch and all of a sudden you're going to do everything it's about taking small steps that's right to begin to see yourself differently so that you can then actually know and acknowledge what it is you need to begin to take care of yourself cuz I think so many people haven't even asked themselves the question of what they need and I want to also say for us to have compassion means when I get it wrong or when I fall off the track I don't say well now it doesn't matter like everything is ruined right is I start again I begin again this episode of the Oprah podcast is sponsored in part by alloy Women's Health are you confused about menopause and per menopause alloy has all the answers and experts you need to feel like yourself again with alloy you get safe effective FDA approved solutions to your menopause and Par menopause symptoms prescribed by menopause trained doctors with unlimited ongoing care with your own personal doctor you can message them anytime from anywhere for no extra cost menopause is inevitable but suffering doesn't have to be alloy has everything you need to age happily and healthily feel like yourself again go to my alloy.com to start your consult with a menopause trained expert today use code Oprah to get $20 off your first order I'm so happy that there's so many people here who are interested in the healing process because we heard a lot of people who are in need of improving themselves some who are joining us on Zoom today Avery is one of those people Avery I hear you're 27 you recently moved to Colorado for a fresh start After experiencing a betrayal the kind you know we keep hearing about more and more about betrayal leaves you devastated doesn't it Dr T can we can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit yes it's depleting I'll tell you that much um but hi thank you for having me uh lovely to see you both um yes I just moved back to Denver I'm originally from Colorado um after a pretty depleting heart heartache uh and it was about two years ago on the dots so I'd say we're we're on the up and up for sure you're on the up and up okay what did you want to ask Dr T so I guess my biggest thing is after you go through a heartache um you know I lived with my ex we were buying house together and we were together for three years and when I found out that he basically had a whole other girlfriend um and how did you find out was it through phone uh it was through video game messages and then phone and then Instagram phones have revealed a lot in this this world a lot of people got messed up with the phones go ahead yes the phone the phones are destroying a lot of relationships but anyway um yeah and so I guess after that happened my biggest thing is I really gained this um avoidant attachment style where you know nice people would come into my life and I would you know brush them away or break up with them too soon to even give them a chance all because you know if I uh do the breaking up with um then I can't get hurt kind of thing and I guess it's you know I think there's plenty of women in the world that struggle with after heartache where you would rather just be alone than ever go through that feeling again and I I think that's something to try to work through yeah thank you so much for your transparency and for sharing your heartbreak the first thing I want to say to you is you are not actually grieving the relationship you're grieving your idea of what you thought the relationship would be because in reality he was not who you thought he was and so the relationship is is not actually one that was mutually nourishing mutually respectful mutually edifying and so that clarification helps right that it's not actually you missed them it's you missed your idea of who you thought they were right yeah and then you know when we talk about uh the aftermath sometimes we create a story about why it happened because we want things to make sense and so in your story creation of why it happened you may be looking at yourself or blaming yourself or shaming yourself when the truth of it really may have nothing to do with you it may be that he had or he or she had access it may be uh just for fun it may be that they were socialized to never be faithful and have not been faithful their whole lives and so sometimes we try to it's an illusion of control if I figure out what I did wrong and I do it different this time I'll be safe and so I invite you to release yourself from the lie that you could have made it be different yeah the person who could have made it be different is the other person right that is so powerful and what's really I could see that hit you and you landed is is that you realize in that moment that Dr T was talking that you are grieving the idea that you had of him because who he really was who he really is is the guy who betrayed you right yeah and you know when you're working through those feelings you can go to therapy every single day but you're still like what could I have done differently like why did this happen not one thing we desire yeah we desire the control and let me say the part of you that was immediately like I don't want relationships again is actually a healthy part it's good to be still after a breakup sometimes people jump right out there and they go pick a a new person different name different face same personality same cycle yeah so it's an indication of healthiness to pause and then it's an indication that you've started healing when a part of you now desires relationship again right because before you didn't want it now you're like maybe it would be nice so that's your heart starting to open back up again and to not sabotage it I know when you talk about running especially if you are um feel moved by them because it doesn't feel safe but while part of our healing happens individually like by ourselves and a part of it h happens in therapy a part of your heart's healing will only take place actually in healthy loving relationship that's when you will really grasp uh some some of the triggers to learn how to show up and not run it's going to happen in that process and so giving yourself the patience and permission to try again to not let the ex rob you of the realities of love right no that's so powerful thank you for saying that I I agree with that word it it brings out the triggers in me when I am talking to someone that's very healthy and so it's just healing healing your heart and working through that together if they're willing to or doing the work on your own so I appreciate that Avery the fact that he cheated on you with those eyes that match your sweater I I don't even know what to say I don't even know what to say com you that that really makes my heart melt I want to say bye boy boy bye okay that is the truth thank you so much Avery thank you thank you have a great rest of your day I I love the fact that you say it matters of the heart that you have a whole chapter actually that experiencing infidelity which you know Avery's been going through and grieving this past two years is really a form of loss and grief yeah and Trauma right it's not just infidelity it is a major thing to be betrayed and a part of our healing Community is so important and so that's one of the things I love about you and Gail sharing her journey of what a difference it made for you to show up as sister as both truth tell but also with that compassion because when we're in those moments we need to be reminded who we are and reminded of our worth and so what better people to do that than people who genuinely care about you absolutely you need somebody there to tell you the truth that's right yes so that you don't end up with the LIE of I'm worthy I'm not attractive enough I'm not interesting enough all of all of the lies of not enough yes yeah and the level of betrayal sometimes is so you know profound that you're just like girl please yes yes yes so it can disrupt your life of how you thought your life was going to be you know you imagined a future with this person and felt secure in that and so a part of it is what you uh think about not only in terms of the other person but your picture of yourself and so one of the things I like to Shi for people is not thinking about the ending of all relationships as a failure some people are like oh it failed sometimes leaving a relationship is a success you won that's your Triumph yes and I really really really it resonated with me and I'm sure a lot of you too listening to us what you said to Avery about you are grieving the man you wanted him to be yes absolutely and sometimes we fall for potential yeah of like if only this if only that if only these five things you would be my dream person and so we have to look at the truth of who this person is and do I really want the truth of that and I think for Avery and for anybody else who's going through this that to get the truth of it helps the healing not of your own heart yeah she's going to come through it and going to be stronger and better for whoever shows up next so Stevie is joining us Stevie's a wife and mother to a toddler hi Stevie I hear you like hi Stevie you I I heard that you wanted to deepen female relationships in your life what's going on with you yes so friendships are a little challenging for me right now um I'm in my 30s I'm surrounded by a lot of community and a lot of people but I really am more focused on quality of friendships than quantity I'm hoping that I can have more valuable intimate relationships and friendships at this stage in my life um I'm a wife and mom now the things kind of feel high stakes for me in my life and I am a bit of a perfectionist so that can kind of be debilitating for me at times with new friendships because I'm afraid I'm not going to show up for them the way that they need or I'm gonna at them so that's been a bit of a a stumbling block and you know growing up I saw so many black friendships on television black women who would Kik together and have a good time and then cry on each other's shoulders and I don't really feel like I have a working framework for that in real life um what that looks like to be to fall apart to be vulnerable to be there in those challenging times I'm kind of listening to you too Dr T um my mother passed when I was 16 so some of those formative moments weren't there so I never got to see that in person um so yeah I think that's where I am right now you have a question yeah my question is come how do I reconcile with this when I want to nourish the friendships and show up for my friends that I currently have and meeting new people at this stage in my life yeah thank you for the question and the first thing I want to speak to is the younger version of you and that part of you who has been disappointed the part of you that was not chosen the part of you that was not embraced the part of you that has never been sistered the part of you that misses being mothered the part of you that feels you have to be perfect and that people will abandon you or leave you or reject you if you are not perfect and I want to say to you that that is a lie that you are worthy of friendship that you are worthy of Sisterhood and that real sisters do not require your Perfection and they will meet you where you are and so instead of of hiding or being afraid to consider what it will mean to be known to be seen to be heard to be validated to be celebrated to be appreciated there are women in your city waiting to Sister you there are women in your city waiting to Sister you authentically and so what happens is our anxiety causes us to isolate and to hide and to block our blessing and so you affirm to yourself I will not block the love of a sister that is trying to find me and I will not have to be perfect for them you know with strangers we have to do public relations how are you I'm fine how are you I'm blessed I'm better than blessed but with my sisters as you said I can unfold and say you know what I'm tired you know what I'm confused you know what I'm fed up and so that is what your soul desires so I'm so glad by you questioning it it means you're ready it means you're ready to stop fighting it ready to stop running from it you're ready to receive it and so this is your season for that wow preach this evening whoa the fact that she is questioning it it just it's just like you said to Avery before the fact that you're now thinking about now maybe I'm ready to be interested in somebody else means the healing has taken place so the fact that you are in this Spa isn't that a wow aha for you the fact that you're in the space of asking the question means that you are spiritually emotionally psychologically getting yourself ready for this season that is yours to come and I want you to know transparency is contagious so if you meet people and stay very surface about brunch or about shopping that's where will stay but as soon as you deepen it there are people who will meet you there at the level of your depth and then they'll say me too me too so be open to it but then as you're connecting with people let them actually meet you not a performance wow thank you you are so welcome I'm excited about seeing you and your girlfriends yeah I'm really excited for you I'm excited for you thank you so much thank you Stevie I could see I could see that that message from Dr T just blessed you right now and all of us who were able to witness it feel the blessing yes thank you so much it really yeah Go With It Go with it thank you Stevie thank you we have you did that thing right there that was that was so excellent thank you we have nastasha joining us from Chicago hey welcome I hear hi how Chicago where are you so I'm in the south suburb of Chicago Homer Glenn near Orland Park okay I I know where that is and I hear after 15 years of Nursing and caring for others that you have now come to a revelation about yourself and the matters of your heart tell us what that is what happened yeah yeah so thank you Oprah and Dr thema for having me here today in this in really this platform this podcast so I'm on an emotional healing Journey with myself um I became a Teen Mom at the age of 16 and while my daughter Caitlyn was an absolute blessing um I she literally saved my life because I was on a bad path as a teenager um but I you know struggled with kind of my my sense of selfworth and trying to prove myself you know kind of trying to beat that stigma or you know that being another statistic in terms of a teen mom so I really just like pushed myself into my n Nur in career you know working full-time going to school I mean going all the way to the end I got my terminal degree my doctorate in nursing which I'm extremely proud of but in that process I neglected the people that matter the most which was my family and I remember this aha moment as you say Oprah where um husband Dale who's an amazing man and we speak to each other from a place of love and honesty he said to me I feel like you treat your patients that than you treat your family and it was in that moment that I was like oh my God I am pouring so much in to others and service that by the time I come home I'm empty and I am not showing up as my best self to the people that matter the most and so it was really hard but I decided that I would make a career shift so that I could give to these nonprofessional aspects of My Life um and then but then I found myself in another predicament I was in this like identity crisis you know for 15 plus years I've been a nurse I've been a nurse practitioner but now that I'm not in that role and I'm not directly doing that it was kind of like who am I you know who is Nasha yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah thank you for uh speaking this truth and for many of us achievement is easier than relationship so even though worked hard to get your doctorate that was actually easier than showing up in that personal space it's very by the book like I memorize the terms I apply the terms yeah and it's so interesting you saying that because I noticed this with a lot of my daughter girls who come to school from South Africa to go to college here where achievement becomes the thing yes achievement becomes their identity achievement I I I had one of my uh daughter girls who's now a doctor at upen but went to Spelman graduated Su kumlati got 1B and fell apart over when be because the identity was I'm a straight A student cuz I said it's a b and she goes but I'm a stra my worth that means I'm good that's right and so what I have found with a number of my girls is that because so much emphasis has been put on the academics and achieving and being success and you're the person in your family and all of that they're not as good with the relationships because all the energy goes into making yourself the successful person you know yeah and I wonder what is the lie that you were told or that you believed about Teen mothers yeah I just remember um you know going to pick up my daughter right and they'd be like where's where's Caitlyn's mom at you know and I'd be like I'm here they're like no no no you know where's Caitlyn's mom and I'm like it's me I'm here and it was just like I guess not being seen yeah or not even being you know thought of that this is the person that is Raising this wonderful human being and like doing everything in our power working two jobs going to school staying up late at night yeah um just to provide a better life for her yeah um so I think that's where it I try to Pro that I'm worthy enough to be there that invisib ility and I'm going to say the relationship that led to the teen pregnancy let's just pause there so that relationship and then people's response to you of not seeing you as a capable mother just ruling you out eliminating you because of your age that you have been chasing enoughness since then and that's been many many years and so now what has happened is healing and ease feel uncomfortable to you that's why you think you're bored that's what ease feels like it's not boring it's not boring aha aha high five yourself yeah I know that hit a nerve right there oh when you were talking about being still and pausing I have had the hardest time being still and pausing and you would think that'd be easy right I'm going to leave my career that's so demanding I'm going to switch gears I'm going to be home more and I can't be still yeah because everything you've been running from all these years shows up in the Stillness shows up in the silence so you stay busy we stay distracted and we think that's whole right we think we're healed but you're just distracted and busy and so now you get to be the nurse to yourself yeah and retrain your nervous system because your nervous system doesn't know how to be settled and so as you learn to settle then you'll be able to show up for yourself and for your loved ones and you are capable and deserving of that is just different so the same way you would be patient with a new nurse is how we have to be patient with ourselves because this thing is new but it's doable and you and your family deserve that wow I thank you I um you know the question was how do I start to rebuild myself and I feel like now I think you you've given me like the tools or this the foundation start like getting to know nastasha start loving myself I I think kind I think she what what happened here was an opportunity to see yourself from the point of view of what's really been happening with yourself I I really appreciate it when you said you're not bored you're just not used to ease yes and and and and you think being still means I'm board because I have to prove I have to prove I have to do I have to show I have to you know yes so getting to know yourself right and and that this is for the first time in your life that you get to actually discover you and it's not too late when I talk about returning back to ourselves or healing ourselves sometimes it's healing myself for the first time so you're actually not trying to go back to a former self you've never been this woman that you are creating now but you get to build her how I'm so glad this is on tape because you're getting so many ahas so quickly that you're not even going to remember everything she I can see you're like okay what did she just say what did she okay yeah it's it's all on tape so you don't have to write it down but I can see that it's hitting you like you're like huh huh huh I we we got as I said we got you here we got you we got you I feel it and I don't know if it's because I'm turning 40 and you know this big number is coming but I just feel like it's it's just something I just I have to deal with and it's hitting me fast and but I feel like you are just speaking to everything that I've been thinking but I guess scared to come to terms within I feel like the big word is I'm scared this is a scary space and it's okay to be afraid it's okay to not have all the answers uh I want to just invite you to do a fill-in the blank so you're going to say I release blank so I can receive blank I um I release this pressure to be perfect so I can be worthy an acceptance of myself and love myself well I want to say you already are worthy you already are worthy already but that you can you can be open to accept your worthiness yes that's what you want yeah receive the truth of it you want to be open to accept your worthiness cuz you have refused to see your value and your worthiness and and all of this happened in one Zoom call this is an amazing thing this is what happened to you today nastasha thank you so much beautiful thank you for having me this has fantastic thank you so much lots to think about thank you thank you yes thank you yeah I think that I think the reason why it's so interesting talking to Nasha is that she represents so many people in the world correct so true and that's how often we're trained to like Chase significance like if I do enough things I can Outlast the statistics I can Outlast people's assumptions I can Outlast my own fears like we're trying to outrun ourselves yes and so having to actually slow down so I can be whole yes instead of chasing wholeness I think it's also so important uh the question that you asked her what is the story that you told yourself about being a teen mother cuz she's still carrying that and still trying to prove to those women who were in the room when she was picking up her child I'm good enough I'm worthy enough I'm Val valuable enough all of that and so then your armor becomes like your resume right she got the degree she got the position and so now you're saying if I lay down my armor like how will I know I'm enough right how will I know I'm worthy if you like strip these titles for me you know it's like the first time I moved when I first moved to Los Angeles I moved here without a position and before that I had been like oh Duke University Harvard Medical Center Princeton University all and so then I came here and it's like so who are you without all of that you're enough was it hard for you to accept that about yourself so at first when I came here I was urgently urgently on this job hunt and I always say to people uh if I knew then what I know now I would have enjoyed the break cuz I was like just slow down and enjoy it you know you're you're going to find it so that was hard cuz it was the first time in my life where I didn't have an affiliation an institution and so then okay without that just who are you and so having to come to terms with that yes yeah that's what she's dealing with to that's right well Porsche is joining us she's one of nine children and I hear you shoulder the burden of being the most successful member of your family tell us what's going on thank you so much um it's true I am the eldest of nine um and we were abandoned by our mother so I have filled in that role as mother to my siblings My grandmother raised us but she worked the entire time so the relationship I have with my siblings is more of one of a mother child and um now that I have my own child I find myself feeling obligated it's this what I'm trying to avoid is I always feel obligated to assist them in a lot of their issues that they're dealing with and recently I wasn't able to show up for one of my closest siblings my little sister who she's like my daughter and I just wasn't able to show up for her and the treatment that I got from her kind of just left me shocked and kind of heartbroken when we're saying little sister how old I'm 41 she's 35 okay so we're not talking about little kids here yeah very important okay very important well I yeah we're not talking about little we're talking about grown women with grown women I wanted to establish that yes she's a grown woman and I had a rule you know all my mother's children have lived with me and it's like but now it's like everybody's already had their chance everybody's got to stand up so I told her no and um we're she just kind of stopped talking to me and it just devastated me and made me angry and I'm never angry with them so I know I need to check myself and however I'm showing up for them because there's some kind of dis there's the balance is not right so my question for Dr T is how do I balance my relationship with my siblings where I show up as a sibling and not as like a savior or I feel obligated to my family so often and I don't want to feel that way because it makes me Retreat sometimes yes and angry and I don't want to have that because I so much but I also need to because it's showing up in my Intimate Relationships as well so my question is I need some balance and I need to stop feeling obligated I don't know why I feel that way you feel that way because there was not someone to fill in the Gap and you filled in the Gap but you get to resign from being the mother sister you resign you turn in your resignation and now you will be solely the sister and when we change and when we heal some people don't like it when people have been depending on you they will not appreciate the boundaries they will not appreciate the No but but it is not for their benefit or for yours for you to continue to carry people who it's time that they learn the strength of their own legs and the strength of their own Wings nothing you do will be enough for people who see you as their resource and don't see you as their sister so you decide stop right there stop right there that nothing will ever be enough if they see you as their resource because it will it will always be what else you got what else you got what else can you do what else you got demand and that's what you're feeling and that's what you're resentful and angry about but your your past relationships with them has set this has set this expectation yes and so what do t i I'm speaking from experience I'm I'm I'm a member of this choir okay and so you have got to establish that those days are gone yes this is what I used to do and now this is what I'm willing to do it is a decision on your part and people are going to be mad they're going to bead you're not going to get through it without somebody being mad but you're doing this to save yourself and ultimately to save the relationships that are meant to last right what what you all could actually be so you get to redefine it now I will do some predictions for you when you step back some people will step up some people who always said well she'll handle it she'll pay for it she'll do it some people will step up and then some things actually won't get done and you let it fall to the ground some people are so dependent on you that when you say I'm not doing it anymore some stuff will drop and that's okay you got to let it drop yeah yeah I do and I and the obligation feeling is because I know that I'm blessed to be a blessing yes I understand yeah and I have taken myself into another area and I have a home where I also um provide 24-hour care for young girls who grew up like myself and that's where my energy is now because those are people who do not have families and things of that nature but I it's this sense of obligation that I I really want to work on because if I show up in my family and something's not there I just feel like I need to fix it well I I you know what I suffered from this for so long I literally have journals filled with the question of what do I owe what do I owe and when is it enough yeah what do I owe and when is enough and can you help her answer that question yes absolutely so one you talked about blessed to be a blessing which is beautiful and I want to ask are you a person of faith I am okay want to say to you that God or your creator did not make you just to be an instrument for other people's relief you are not just a vehicle for other people and I know we like to talk about God used me up God says I'm not a user I'm not here to use you just to bless others it's actually to flow into you so you can get from your overflow when you you are nourished then it won't drain you or empty you to share with those girls in the home that you share with but for too long we are made to believe that we must say yes to everything and that's the Christian thing to do and I want to tell you and Oprah on today yes the Holiness of no no is a sacred word it is a sacred word and so you are Temple did you see pors goope I heard that Let the church say amen amen amen yes the Holiness of no I like that H Holiness of no yes the Holiness of no because we're made to feel guilty for our no we're made to feel guilty that like you have to say yes to everyone and everything to be sufficient to be a good person that's what you said how much is enough how much do I have to have to keep proving I'm a good person and so now you know you get to say yes to yourself you get to say yes to your relationships you get to say yes to uh the the the young children the girls you have taken in uh but it starts with the nourishment of your own soul so I want to invite you to start doing morning rituals where you feed your spirit before you start the day so that you do not go through the day running empty feed you first this made some sense to you today it's it's in alignment with where I my heart's been so I'm really grateful and I feel blessed yeah beautiful do you believe you have the courage now the the courage for the Holiness of no I know it yes I know taking the little steps and hearing it from of course Oprah my favorite godmother of course it just makes s ah thank you so much thank you so much thank you so much I appreciate you all so much thank you Porsche so you write about the co-creating joy you say it's an inside job that's right for an individual and a collective job for relationships it is co-create Joy with the people you love that's right we have to be intentional so that we don't take relationships for granted or take people for granted sometimes we're like oh I know those are my folks but we turn to them more when we're in crisis or in need or we neglect the relationship because we figure they'll always be there so we have to be intentional about engaging and creating moments and memories with each other that are Joy filled have to do that on purpose and protect time for it well this is the thing you're a therapist uh you're a professor yes you're a minister because you have preached here today yeah how do you describe a a life well- lived a well-lived existence that and what are the guideposts what does a meaningful life look like when you're operating for matters of the heart yes so for matters of the heart I have to connect it to my first book which is homecoming because living for me a well-nourished life is being at home with yourself being r Ed and grounded from the truth of you and my dear friend and colleague Dr Shel harell describes it as soulfulness that if I live from A Soulful authentic place then I am fully alive and being Fully Alive and showing up means that I have love for myself that I have love for other people that I let that guide the ways in which I show up and I also there is fruit to my soulfulness when I am living from an authentic place there is impact in the world around me and so where's your fruit right if I'm living rooted and grounded in the truth of who I am and that fruit is not a fruit that drains me or depletes me when I'm living my path that actually renews me and restores me and so that's the gift of it for me and my fruitfulness and my Soulful living won't look like somebody else's it's like I meet some people and they say oh my goodness you're a trauma Survivor and a trauma psychologist that must be so draining and I say no this work leaves me in awe like I'm inspired to be able to walk with people through that like healing process but for somebody else it would be draining some people who work in a corporate space they get fed by it cuz they're called to it other people are like I couldn't do that work right when you talk about doing like all these interviews for some people that that sounds like oh my gosh you have to talk to people all day and you're like that's that's my life that's ening stimulating for me yes so Live From A Soulful authentic true place and in a way that it is regenerative right that you are fed even as you poor O I'm going to end on that you are fed even as you poor yes thank you Dr Tamar Bryant for what feels like sacred wisdom well you come at it naturally okay and I thank you to all of my guests today Natasha and Stevie and Avery and Porsche um I so appreciate each of you bringing your whole heart to the conversation about matters of the heart Dr Tea's book is called matters of the heart healing your relationship with yourself and those you love and it's available anywhere you buy books and Dr T reads the audio version herself yes so it's like having an ongoing podcast with you and those of you who want to sub subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify Apple podcast wherever you get your podcast and don't miss a week go well everybody thank you thank you thank you so much oh I'm appreciate hey said have to have to preach it yeah you can subscribe to the over podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify Apple podcast or wherever you listen I'll see you next week thanks everybody