It is now spring 1831 and Kirtland, Ohio is officially the new gathering place for the Church of Jesus Christ for now. And even though these gathering saints share a conviction of Jesus Christ and his restored gospel, there is still much to be done to unify them. Some practices have taken hold in church meetings which are not conducive to the spirit of the Lord. First, church members have become selective on who can attend their meetings, citing sin or motives as justifications for exclusion. Another concerning practice has been the inconsistent and often eccentric perceived manifestations of the Holy Spirit. And despite these challenges, the work of God advances. Missionary work spreads. The Lord calls a new historian to keep a record of the dealings of the church. More and more saints arrive by the day from New York to Kirtland. And yet at the back of everyone's minds lies the reality that Kirtland is just a stop on the journey, not the destination. And that destination is unknown. So for now, like the multitudes of ages past who have followed their God into the wilderness, the saints press forward and prepare for the next step, wherever it may lead. I invite you to join us in our study of sections 46 through 48 of the Doctrine and Covenants. Welcome to Come Follow Up. I think that there's a lot of power in a name, right? So, I know in settings where people remember my name, I have a unique name. So, it makes me feel like I I belong. And I think that a lot of people are just searching for belonging and community in church. Um, so one way I do that is just by trying to learn their names and, you know, things that they like. As a convert to the church, when I first started going, it was it was odd. I wasn't used to going to church, but the ward that I started attending, they were really welcoming. They brought me in. I'll be honest, I didn't look like your typical member of the church. I had long hair. I had just dyed it black. I wore makeup. I was kind of a goth kid, if you will. Um, so I didn't have that typical look, but they still didn't let that stand in the way. They were very welcoming and they made sure that I felt like I belonged. I grew up in a ward that had a lot of converts in San Diego. Um, a lot of military people coming through, a lot of different cultures and ethnicities. And so second and third hour were offered in five different languages. And so the amount of cultures and um activities, cuisine were so diverse that there really wasn't an expectation of what a member of the church should look like or act like. It was just everyone was happy to be there together. Welcome everybody to our discussion on Doctrine and Covenants sections 46 through 48. My name is Ben Lomu and I am your host. Seated next to me is our gospel scholar Scott Esplan. Scott is the dean of religious education at Brigham Young University. He's a former seminary and institute teacher and he and his wife Janice are the parents of four children. Welcome Scott. Thanks Ben. Good to be here. Thank you. And seated next to Scott is our special guest Cynthia Jensen Hihon. Cynthia is a South America program designer with HXP, a humanitarian organization serving people all over the world. She is the founder of Latinas in Tech Utah chapter and is originally from Ecuador and is also a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She and her husband Jordan live in Sandy, Utah. Welcome, Cynthia. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. We're also joined by our studio audience. Thank you all for being here today. Scott, as we jump into these sections 46 through 48, what sort of historical context can you provide to help us understand these a little bit better? Sure, Ben. Um, these sections are given in Kirtland, Ohio. Uh, received by the prophet Joseph Smith in Kirtland, Ohio in 1831. Joseph and had arrived earlier in Kirtland early in uh late January, early February of 1831. And Latter-day Saints from New York are beginning to immigrate to Ohio as well. So these revelations um are directed to uh early converts, early members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The church is not quite a year old yet and it's been in Kirtland for only a matter of a few months. Um so section 46 will discuss how they were to conduct their church meetings and uh ways in which they were to invite others to participate in those church meetings as well as gifts of the spirit and ways they were to seek those gifts. Uh section 47 is revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith uh to John Whitmer directing that a record should be kept of our church history. And section 48 uh gives some specific instructions about how to house where to locate the people who were relocating moving to New York to Ohio from New York and uh counsel for them on how they were to live their lives in this in this new location. All right. Thank you, Scott. Our discussions today will be focused on scripture passages within Doctrine and Covenants sections 46-48 and structured around the following study ideas from Come Follow Me. The Savior welcomes all who want to worship in his church. Heavenly Father gives me spiritual gifts to bless others. The Lord wants his church to keep a history. The Holy Ghost can direct me as I fulfill my calling. Scott, the first topic we're going to be looking at is the Savior welcomes all who want to worship at his church. How does that topic fit specifically within these sections? Sure. So, I think that topic comes specifically from section 46 of the Doctrine of Covenants uh in this particular section. Uh there was a question that emerged in the early church uh about how they should conduct their church meetings and and more specifically who should be allowed to participate. We could start in verse two if you want to begin there. But notwithstanding those things which are written, that's probably a reference back to the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon talks about how the meeting should be conducted. Notwithstanding that which is written, it has always been given to the elders of my church from the beginning and ever shall be to conduct meetings as they're directed and guided by the Holy Spirit. What the Book of Mormon says, but also do what the the Spirit directs you to do as you guide the meeting. And then specifically in the next several verses, it talks about, for example, in verse three, never cast anyone out from your public meetings. Verse four, speaking of sacrament meetings, don't command, you're commanded not to cast anyone out who belongs to the church out of your sacrament meetings. Verse five, don't cast anyone out who is earnestly seeking the kingdom. Those verses 3-6 repeated reference to this idea of don't cast anyone out. The other verse you may want to look at is is in third Nephi. You'll notice a footnote 3A send you there. uh 3rd Nephi 18 when the Lord says notwithstanding that which is written maybe referring to this passage in 3rd Nephi 18 uh verses 22 and 23 it reads and behold you shall meet together oft and you shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when you shall meet together but suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not but you shall pray for them and shall not cast them out and if it so be that they come unto you oft ye shall pray for them unto the father in my name so these repeated references to not casting people out, keeping our meetings open, inviting others, um is the the the content of the the beginning of section 46. Cynthia, you are a convert to the church. Would you mind sharing with us a little bit about your experience and how you were welcomed into your new congregation? Yes, of course. It was a fascinating time for our family. Um we were living in Ecuador. I overheard my mom and dad visiting several churches before we actually joined um the church. And I remember my um mom and dad were looking for several months and there was one day that I joined them on the ride to the house. I just remember my mom saying, "Look at that church. It says uh the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." And then my mom said, "Wait, they might be Christians." That day in 2003 they were having an open house and it was a theme of how families can be together forever and we just learn a little bit about the church and the different organizations. The next day we we attended church and two weeks later we were baptized. Wow. So what was it like walking into a new congregation? What how did the members welcome you and your family? We were greeted with so much love. Um I remember the first sister who greeted us uh wanted us to meet with the missionaries right away and we met the missionaries and um we also the next day attended church and uh we noticed that we were separated in our second hour and my mom and dad I remember they always mentioned this to me throughout the years how organized the church look like how the kids will al also interact in sacrament. and um how they were so reverent. They were amazed by that and just the simple organization and the love and sincerity that you can feel from from the members. Um and I just remember they asked us to go to a a specific class so that we can start learning the gospel. And I remember saying can I just go to the youth area? I was 13 years old and so I just felt that love from everybody. Scott, President Hinckley has famously said that uh new members need three things. A friend, a responsibility, and nurturing with the good word of God. How do these things help people, specifically new converts, stay on the covenant path? I I think he may also be referring to a passage that's in the Book of Mormon in Moroni chapter 6 verse 4. And after they had been received into baptism and were brought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost. So after they were new converts, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ and their names were taken that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God. The Book of Mormon provides a pattern for how we can help people maintain their faith uh nurture this newfound love for the Lord or newfound um love for his church and and kingdom um by by taking their names by nourishing them by the good word of God by by as it continues in the chapter ministering to them. Uh uh providing them opportunities to serve uh I think uh President Hinckley knew that uh there was a genius behind the way that the scriptures outline the church's organization and I think was trying to pattern that. Cynthia, how did you see those three elements, having a friend, a responsibility, and being nurtured by the good word of God play out in your life? It is really inspiring to know that other people are my example. Just becoming that that that friend to me to help me throughout this change in my life. Um I have felt the presence of the Holy Ghost and it was um the very beginning of finding out how the Holy Ghost communicates with us and and then later on as I moved on to leadership positions in the church. I remember having that uh responsibility and being given that responsibility and not knowing what to do but having that friend to help you find out what you do. Um even when I was asked to give uh prayers for example, I didn't know how to um go up in front of the public and share a prayer and so they were able to help me. It's it's very interesting because it's been so long ago that I am like wow that that has impacted me. It made me think of the person that I am today and those gifts that Heavenly Father really gives us to help others as well. What a powerful testimony on on what welcoming others can do. It just puts them on the path as we see with Cynthia of lifelong disciplehip. I would love to hear from the audience in what ways have you felt welcomed at church. Alandre. So my husband and I were traveling and we went to a ward and we got there and nobody greeted us at all. Right. And it was a kind of a big ward. So I was like, "Oh, it's easy to let people fall through the cracks. It's totally fine." and we were just traveling. So, I was not offended at all. I went to Relief Society. I sat down and nobody sat next to me. What if I had been a a less active person? Someone had been to church in a while and I was really nervous. You know, what would that experience have been for me? But as I left the building, me and my husband were outside of the building. We're in the parking lot and I hear footsteps of someone running running behind me. And she runs up and she grabs my arm and turns me around and she says, "Hi." Hey, like I didn't recognize you at church. I wanted to come and say hello, but I'm in primary. I'm so sorry I missed you. What's your name? You know, tell me about yourself. And it was so it was so sweet. And I've never forgotten that woman. And she always makes me think about how am I emulating the love of Christ when I see other people who come to the ward, you know? Am I showing that same welcoming spirit? So that's a great example, Lana. Thank you so much for sharing with us, Scott. I love how there's so much encouragement of starting a new church, welcoming, and it's a process. They're figuring this out. There can be some really powerful long-term effects. Where in the scriptures can we see the lasting effects of being more welcoming? You know, one story that comes to mind, uh, Ben, is is, you know, in the Book of Mormon, uh, when Ammon and the sons of Mosiah uh, have their miraculous experience among the Lammonites and and convert this group of people that the text calls the anti- Nephi Lehites and how they eventually relocate to the land of Zerahhemla. While it doesn't give a lot of detail, it seems clear that the people of Zerahhemla were were what we're describing here. They were welcoming among this people that that could potentially be seen as their their enemies and they were welcoming. They gave them the land of Gershon to reside. They they provide protection for them uh because they made this covenant not to take up arms. And you know a generation later um it is those it seems to be the children of those anti-phihis the the the sons of Hedelman, the the the strippling warriors that provide great protection for the Nephites uh come to their aid in time of need. and and uh this this welcoming spirit, this this uh what we're describing here, not excluding people because they're they're different or new or whatever, um provided long-term benefit for the for the Nephites as well. Thank you, Scott. Cynthia, what are some of the long-term blessings and benefits that you have seen because you were welcomed in? We have been blessed as a family itself. we um have been able to see miracles across and just because we have been able to learn who we are and why we're here and I have been blessed to know um that the church of Jesus Christ has been reestablished another time in this earth and to know that it's growing so much and to know that so many people across the world are learning about it. It is amazing to see that and that we are the same because it is the church of Jesus Christ. And my family was still in 2005 and we uh joined with the whole congregation on a trip of 8 hours to go to Wakil in Ecuador. I remember my mom and dad being in the ceiling room and as I walked in I started uh crying and smiling and looking at everybody. I just remember that feeling of belonging, a feeling of you're doing this right. I had a desire that I wanted to meet the sealer after I had gone to the temple myself. And I met him in my mission. I served my mission in Idaho. And that for me was an answer that Heavenly Father really knows who we are and that Heavenly Father really cares about those disciples that are in his church. Beautiful. Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation. And thank you both so much for sharing your thoughts and thank you for walking us through several of these verses as we've talked about how the savior welcomes all to come unto his church. And for the audience, thank you as well for being willing to share. And for you at home, what efforts are you making to be welcoming at church? Join the conversation on Facebook or Instagram. I think one of my spiritual gifts is the ability to see God's children um for who they are and who they can become. My spiritual gift that I have is to welcome people into the church. I think that I have the spiritual gift of believing that Jesus is the Christ. One of my favorites is the gift of knowledge and wisdom. obviously bearing my testimony, gift of insight, being able to see the needs of others and to quickly act on the prompings from the spirit. I can make people happy. I can make them smile. Discerning between right and wrong. One of my spiritual gifts is being emotional. I used to think that it was a weakness of mine, but I leaned into it and it's helped me help others feel seen at church and make friends and also feel seen myself. So, let's talk about our second topic. Heavenly Father gives me spiritual gifts to bless others. Where do we see this specific topic within these sections? So, it's in the latter part of the section from verses 7 to verse 8. uh the injunction to seek earnestly the best gifts. Uh but uh the context of this section, it might be wise to keep in mind that just the day before the Lord had given revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith that instructed uh the early saints in section 45:57, "For they that are wise and have received the truth and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide and have not been deceived. Verily I say unto you, they shall not be heuned down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day." this injunction to take the Holy Spirit for their guide was something that just the day earlier they'd been taught about and and maybe helps frame what's going on in section 46 as well. So, in our preparations for this discussion, uh we had a question that came up and I would love to get your thoughts on what types of spiritual gifts were being seen at this time in history and how were they enticing to people? So, that's a great question. And the Saints were new in Kirtland as we talked and uh and and I think the adversary in his intent to try to deceive was demonstrating a variety of of quasi spiritual gifts. Joseph Smith left an account later that describes uh what was going on in Kirtland. And if so bear with me, I think it might be worth worth sharing. Um, Joseph Smith said, "Soon after the gospel was established in Kirtland, and during the absence of the authorities of the church, many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild enthusiastic notions were entertained. He goes on to describe what some of those were like. John Whitmer does the same in his history, and Parley Pratt describes some in another account that he left. And the there seemed to be these strange, wild, enthusiastic um manifestations of what some thought were the spirit of God. And uh and so section 46 may also be an an effort by the Lord to help them discern what really is a gift of the spirit from God and what isn't. Okay. Cynthia, as we talk about spiritual gifts, why are spiritual gifts important to you? During the pandemic on 2020, I was watching the news and Ecuador had been the epicenter of CO in South America. And I remember seeing the news and how people were losing their lives very fast. And I remember thinking in my house, what can I do from here to help a country that's so far away where I'm from and uh I remember calling my orthodontist who's now the president of the Red Cross in Ecuador. And I was like, help me find out what is the need that you are seeing coming not now but like in the future like in the next 2 3 months. Um and he responded and said we are actually needing transportation. Uh we're needing transportation for um our kids because they are not able to get to schools right now. And we collected 300 bikes that were donated from BYU students. And 2 months later, Ecuador received bikes and they were distributed to the most vulnerable areas in the city where I was born in IRA. We were able to accomplish such a big project that I had no idea I was able to to do without Heavenly Father's help. And so it was definitely the gifts that I had been given that I discovered to um that I was able to do that even without an organization, without a nonprofit or nothing. It was just a simple desire that I had. I love that. I would love to go to the audience and find out what is a spiritual gift that you have seen in others and how has that been a blessing in your life? Raana, one of the spiritual gifts that I've been able to see in actually my dad is uh the the ability that he has to follow the spirit and then testify. the spirit that guides him and how he testifies of it and of Jesus Christ has really taught me in some way how to listen to the spirit and taught me to never be ashamed to speak up and bear my testimony. Rihanna, as you're trying to learn how to listen to the spirit, what have you discovered about how the spirit speaks to you? basically just kind of warm feelings within within me. And these feelings are things like love and assurityity and peace and all of all good feelings and they really help me feel that this decision or this anything I'm contemplating is right and it is of God so I'm going to follow it. That's great. I love that. I love how Rihanna shared that those feelings that he had, they they come from God. Uh Scott, what can you share with us about how God is the giver of all of these gifts? There's a number of things we learned about the nature and character of God from these gifts. We ought to maybe acknowledge that this is not the only place where gifts of the spirit are listed. There's other scriptures, other locations that describe um provide lists. Moroni 10 has a a similar listing of of gifts of the spirit as does 1 Corinthians 12. The scriptures are replete with examples of people demonstrating or God giving gifts to individuals, his children. Um I think it teaches us that that God is good, God is generous. Um that these are simply uh illustrations of what he can give. This isn't a comprehensive list. The lists aren't um identical. And I think it demonstrates that God is anxious to bless his children and able to do so. He gives gifts to those who love him, who keep all of his commandments as well as those who are seeking so to do that. that seeking so to do is an important phrase. Uh one doesn't have to be perfect to receive a gift. Uh one has to be trying and and when one's trying um God is anxious to bless his children. And so I love this. Those who seek so to do, God wants to bless them. You know, I love this quote from another Holland that goes along with that principle you just shared. Please remember tomorrow and all the days after that the Lord blesses those who want to improve, who accept the need for commandments and try to keep them, who cherish Christlike virtues and strive to the best of their ability to acquire them. If you stumble in that pursuit, so does everyone. The Savior is there to help you keep going. Cynthia, as you have strived to develop and acquire gifts and receive gifts of the spirit, how has that strengthened your understanding and relationship with our heavenly father? I know that he hears us. I know that when we ask, he really knows our desires. He really um knows that we can receive it as long as we're willing to put our part, right? I learned how to speak Portuguese in my mission and I served in Idaho. I asked my mission president if it's all right for me to learn a new language since I knew English and Spanish already. And my mission president said, "There are people waiting for you." And I said, "Oh, okay. Sounds good." But I had no idea that I would be calling from the visitor center or answering phone calls from people all over Brazil, all over the world that spoke Portuguese. And that desire that I had showed me how God truly is uh aware of each one of us. And if we ask him, he will give it to us. And it says right there in verse 7, "But ye are commanded in all things to ask God who give it liberally." And then it says, "And that which the spirit testifies unto you, even so I would that ye should do all things in holiness of heart." I love that. Wow. Scott, I want to ask you a question about um verse 8 of section 46 because it talks about how we should seek earnestly the the best gifts. Does this mean that there's some gifts that are better than others? Now, that's an interesting question because the section, the verses before this has implied that all are welcome, all are included, all are invited. So, why would the Lord then switch to seeking earnestly the best? It implies a hierarchy, a superiority, that that something is better than another. I I think there's multiple ways to read that verse and the subsequent verses that follow it. Okay. Um if you look for example in verse 11, uh there are many gifts and to every man is given a gift by the spirit of God. God seems to disseminate the gifts broadly among his children and and so um we wouldn't want to exclude someone because they might have the gift we need our congregation needs our family needs or we need individually. So when we seek earnestly the best gifts I think we're seeking for the gifts that we need in the moment Cynthia described needing the gift of tongues to be able to fulfill her missionary opportunities. Um that gift may change over time. So what's best for us in the moment might differ uh based on circumstance situation. What was best for me as a student might be different for me now as a father as a as a husband. Another thought is and this was George Cuchanan of the first presidency many years ago taught that we should seek earnestly after the gifts that will um complete our imperfections. That's a different approach. instead of thinking about the gifts that will make us that will will that we need in the moment thinking about the gifts that where we have shortcomings and so whatever it is uh seeking for the gift that will complete complete me that will will help me overcome my shortcomings and we see in the book of ether that you can take that weakness and it can become a strength so would would you say that would be one of those ways in which our heavenly father gives us a gift exactly to help perfect us that's that's the way president cannon teaches it that We should seek after the gifts that will per perfect us and and find out what our shortcomings are and and in the Book of Mormon in in Moroni chapter 7, we're counseledled speaking specifically of the gift of charity to pray unto the father with all the energy of heart to be blessed with that gift. I think we can pray um with all the energy of our heart for a gift um whatever gift it is according to God's will and and if it's his will and and our need, he will give it. That's his nature. Wow. Cynthy, I want to bring together our previous topic and this topic. What connection do you see between the spiritual gifts that you have and your ability to welcome everybody and see others the way God sees them? The beautiful thing of uh me serving a mission, a visitor center, opened my view of what a visitor center, sister missionary does is the the guests come to you to learn about the savior instead of you knocking the door. And you you have to be very um welcoming to receive them, anybody who comes. And I remember clearly um receiving people from all over the world. One of the things that I will feel is even if I didn't speak the language, I could um immediately hug them or give them a handshake or a smile. And that for me just made me I knew that I had that in my in my heart because we want everybody to feel the the spirit and we wanted everybody to to know that there's a savior that cares about them that he leaves. Well, thank you so much for sharing both of you for helping us understand this second topic on how God gives us spiritual gifts so we can bless the lives of others. And to the audience, thanks so much for joining us today and for being willing to share your experiences as well. And for you at home, we still have much to cover in footnotes. Please stay with us. The first time I experienced the spirit was when I noticed a lack of the spirit. And that was when I moved out of the my house and I moved to California. And I was around people that just had different values than I did. And I thought, "This doesn't feel good." And then I realized that what I had been previously feeling was the spirit and now I'm experienced the lack of the spirit. I think one of the biggest ways I feel the spirit is warmth kind of within myself and in my spirit. I feel it's definitely feelings of love, comfort, and assurityity that you got this like this is the right thing. I often think of it like a magnet like my heart is being pulled in one direction and not in another direction. And I can just kind of feel emotionally and mentally and kind of all through my body like that's the right thing and the right direction to be going. I feel the spirit the most when I am being quiet and taking time to be still and to meditate. I just have this feeling of shity. Just I know that it's the right thing. After I've prayed, after I've taken the time to study it out, the spirit does answer and it just feels like I know that it's that it's absolutely the right thing to [Music] do. Welcome to Come Follow-up Footnotes. We've dismissed our studio audience and now turn to our deeper dive into Doctrine and Covenants sections 46 through 48 with Cynthia and Scott. Well, welcome back. excited to jump back into these sections and uh look at some things that we may have missed or maybe you know some uh revisit some things we've already discussed. How about we go to section 47, Scott? Okay, great. So, the background of section 47, I think you can obviously see it in the section heading, but also in verse three. Oliver Calry had been called to keep a church record. On the day the church was organized, the Lord commanded that a record shall be kept among you in section 21 of the Doctrine of Covenants. And Oliver Calry was the keeper of that record. So in section 47 um the Lord directs that John Whitmer be called to keep a church record and history continually as it says in verse three for Oliver Cowdrift appointed to another office. It appears that uh John Whitmer was reluctant to do so. He didn't want to either he didn't feel up to it or didn't wasn't either his gifts his talents as we talked about gifts of the spirit previously or whatever it was. But uh but he does say as it says in the section heading, I would rather not do it, but observe that the will of the Lord be done. And if if he desires it, I desire that he would manifest it through Joseph the seer. Uh and and so this revelation comes at the request of John Whitmer effectively saying, "I'll do it, but only if you get a revelation." And I think it it it says something about reluctance to serve in a calling. But it also says something to his credit about his faith and trust in Joseph Smith and the Lord speaking through Joseph Smith. I think he especially at this time in in in John Whitmer's life. Um he recognizes that that if Joseph speaks, it's going to be the Lord's will and I will do it. And I I admire him for that. Cynthia, as we're talking about recordeping and the the value and the importance of it, what has been your experience with keeping your own record? It is so valuable for the future and for now even. I was serving in Idaho Falls in in a branch and the patriarch came to give a talk on that day and he noticed that I was from Ecuador and then he said that he had served a mission in the temple and I told him that I was sealed on on in the Wakiel Ecuador temple and it was in September of 2004 and he went home. I went home and I received a phone call and he says, "Mana Hon, is your mom's name Carita and your dad's name Sergio?" Then I just jumped out of emotion. I was just so excited and so thrilled to know that I had met my sealer, someone who I never thought I would meet on my mission. And it was all because he had written down the names of my parents who he sealed so long ago. Wow. That's I I love that. Great story. That's amazing. As we talk about the value and the importance of journaling, a lot of times I feel guilty um because I'm not as diligent as I was as a missionary. But then we have a lot of uh methods today with technology in which we can record through media, social media, pictures, images. What's the overall value, Scott, that we see even examples in scriptures of the power of recording and keeping records? We don't have to always assume the traditional style of, you know, a journal. It can be audio, it can be video. there's value in pictures, all those things, as long as they're preserved digitally, of course, and you don't lose them. But, uh, um, I think section 47 teaches some good principles that can apply regardless of the media, regardless of the format. Uh, when John Whitmer was called to to be the historian, the clerk, the recordkeeper. Um, in verse one, it tells him to keep a regular history. I think sometimes when we keep or write in our journals, we uh we we look for something dramatic or spectacular and say, "I'm not going to write until something dramatic or spectacular happens." And I I look back now on my life and there are things I would desperately love to have details about um that I just didn't write down because I didn't think they were dramatic enough at the time. I don't have a lot if anything in my journal about dating my wife because um it was just regular. It was just consistent. It was just and I look back now and that was eternally significant in my life. So keep a regular history. Um another one in verse three um he's told uh to keep the history continually. Um, I might write regularly once every five years, but that's not continual. Continual implies consistent on a regular basis. And and so if I'm writing consistently and regular events, I think that helps flesh out a record or taking pictures or recording audio or video. Um, a third one in verse four is is is also eternally significant to write the things by the comforter. And it says, "Write by the comforter to write these things. We ought to preserve our our spiritual experiences for ourselves and for our posterity. Um, Elder Maxwell has taught that uh that God cannot and may not um give to us again something that we treated so lightly um that he gave to us the first time that we didn't write it down. Um Elder Scott taught that writing something down demonstrates to God that we value it, that we care for it and and thereby he trusts us to give us more. Cynthia, what has been your experience in your own journaling and recordkeeping? Yeah, I have a social media is my best friend. I post so much on my life and what has been happening in my life. It's really interesting because we can connect it to always the gospel. My life is is just a disciple of Christ. So I will post um that I have been I became a board member of the Utah Hispanic Chamber of Commerce for example. And you would think that that's something the business side, but part of me is serving the community of the Latino community here in the state and and showing who I am to to those who who I serve here in the state. And so it's really interesting of how things like that or or roles that you have in your life impact in whoever you meet. And it doesn't matter how you keep it but it matters more most of how you are writing it down how you connected with the savior or it it's very interesting in in in my last few months for example I have been traveling and I have been meeting people in the airplane and people that I thought I would never be meeting and there they are engineers architects who will ask me where who am I what am I doing here where am I going you know just conversations like that and then the sparkle comes up and says this is this is what I'm doing I am a member of the church and and it just begins to I become a missionary and it is really interesting and so I will just post of stories that I have or I will just write it down if they are sacred to me all right Scott so let's think big picture in context of thinking celestially, recognizing that our heavenly father's work in glory is to bring to pass the immortality, eternal life of man. What is the significance of keeping a record and keeping a history as it pertains to his purpose? I think it it helps us see his hand in our lives. President Iring has count he shared an example in his life where he, you know, talked about feeling like he was having experiences and they weren't just given for him. He was supposed to write them down. and he started as he tells the story starts uh writing down the hand of God in his life every day. And I I think recordkeeping, keeping a good history helps us discern God's hand in our lives. And the more we recognize it and then help others see it, it allows us to share his gospel with those we love, with people we meet. So I I think it it helps us uh stay connected and think celestally in in that regard. It also certainly benefits uh our our future posterity. I think of uh you know in God's plan. I I don't know if my children or grandchildren or posterity will ever care about what I wrote. Maybe they will. But uh but I I think I need to write with that expectation that they might um there may be something that that I experienced that my parents posterity looks back on and says, you know, grandpa went through this, great grandpa went through this and and and here's what how God helped him. And so I taking the long view on on a record, taking the long view on God's hand in our lives. Um certainly journal keeping helps me keep things in perspective um as I work through the day-to-day experiences of life. Uh keeping a good record and and writing down the spiritual experiences helps me take a long view. I'd like to circle back to section 46. I think there are so many wonderful things within this section. Cynthia, uh what thoughts or um insights do you have from section 46 that we can discuss? Yeah. Well, in my studies, I um I actually made a list of all the gifts that I can find in here. And I I actually found 13. And I know that um there are gifts that are not written in here that we can even find that we have or that others have. I can tell you many gifts that my mom and dad have that I've never even um thought of. Um, for example, my dad is a very organized person as a as a army man. He he was a a commander in the army in Ecuador and he's just has this gift of organizing things and managing big projects and managing people. I'm also grateful for my mom who was the person who noticed the church. Um, and I think that the gift of noticing is not noticing how people are doing, noticing little things that others don't see in you. Um, they will help you be better. And I noticed that my mom always helps me become a better person because she notices it. And so, I love that. And I love how you are talking about the gifts of your mom and dad and how they have blessed your life. And and we see that here when we talk about gifts. Um the purpose for these gifts is so that we can reach out and and teach and connect with others and and help God do his work. Yeah. I think we talked earlier about gifts, seeking out the gifts that would perfect us, that our shortcomings, our imperfections. And I think there's value in that. I I believe that teaching. But that's not the only reason gifts are given. They're not just given to bless us. As it says in verse 12, to some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby. Gifts are given to bless other people. Many of the lists that you identified aren't gifts that I can use. I I can't heal myself. I don't I don't lay hands on myself. I I use that gift for someone else. Um, and so I think we ought to acknowledge while there is value in seeking the gifts that will help fill out our imperfections, um, we should also seek gifts that can be used to bless others to build and and and bless and serve in God's kingdom. As you were talking, Cynthia, um, I think this the fact that the gifts are listed many places and they're they're they don't cover every possible gift reveals something about our heavenly father. Um, as you were talking, I was thinking about the words spiritual gifts are infinite and eternal. They they last forever and they're expansive and and these are characteristics of God. He's infinite. He's eternal and so are his gifts. Um the gifts of God are infinite. They're eternal because they're reflections of him who is infinite and him who is eternal. Him who is endless. These are his characteristics, his attributes, and they show up in his gifts. Okay. So, we since we do have a list of gifts here, um are there any gifts in here that you see that maybe you would like to obtain or maybe is there a gift, Cynthia, that you see here that you actually have? You can know already that the gift of interpretations of tongues. I love interpreting. I actually interpret at several church meetings and it takes a lot of your brain power to do it. But I'm just very I sometimes I'm I'm surprised because the words will just come and come and come and I am I am not the one who's saying it, you know, and so I just know that it's a gift that Christ has given me. I love that. But what what else, Scott, would you like to share with us from these sections? Well, we've talked about the history to section 47. Uh this idea that the Holy Ghost can direct us as we fulfill our callings is uh is a lesson we might draw from John Whitmer and uh and his uh seeking out a revelation in the calling he was being asked to do. Um he's invited to be the clerk, invited to be the historian, but uh but wants a revelation. And and I can do the same in my colleagues. Uh and and I can receive it if I approach it with faith like John Whitmer did. John Whitmer expected he would receive a revelation through Joseph the seer. And um if I go to God expecting to get a revelation about my calling, I'll get it. God is anxious for me to succeed in what he's called me to do. Whether that's teaching, in my case, teaching students or administering the work of religious education. God's anxious for us to succeed. And if I approach him, if I approach the throne of grace with with a sincere heart, with real intent, um he'll give me what I want and um he'll help me succeed just like he he answered John Whitmer's prayer and question about his calling and I I could learn from that. Cynthia, you are serving as the primary president still. Yeah. Yes, that's right. Okay. So, tell us how are you using the Holy Ghost in Revelation as you try to do your best to serve in that capacity? Primary involves not just the kids but the teachers and the parents. And it's really interesting because we need uh teachers in primary all the time. The subs the the teachers who don't come that don't let us know. But you know it's it's always fun. It's I I'm always surprised by something at the end. And I have been loving the fact that I could come to a class and just share the class right there or I can ask a sub and come and share the class in the last minute. And I'm just very grateful for that because I think like the gospel is so simple, but they are just willing to teach that um at the last minute and and just knowing that um they have the spirit right there with them to help them teach whatever the kids need that day to learn. And so I've seen that happen several times. So good. All right. Uh we have not yet touched on section 48. Scott, do you mind giving us a little intro and maybe sharing some things with us that we can uh discuss and learn from in this section? So, I guess back to John Whitmer a little bit. John Whitmer keep starts keeping this history and among the things that I love about John Whitmer's history is he gives the context for many of these sections. In section 48 before giving the details of this section or or its contents, he says that um converts started to arrive from the east. And I love what the Lord does in section 48. So, these people are coming from New York. The question comes up, what should we do for and where should they live and how should they live? And the Lord three times in the first couple of verses uses this phrase for the present time. You see it in verse one, it's necessary you should remain for the present time in your places of abode. Verse three, in as much as you have not lands, let them buy for the present time. At the end of verse three, it needs be necessary that they have places to live for the present time. This is a section that tries to help people live in the moment, live in the present. And I think sometimes we are prone to look to our future and we miss out on the opportunities that can happen in the present. And so these people looking to moving on from Ohio to wherever the future Zion would be, the Lord reenters them and says, "You'll get to Zion, but until then, for the present time, do this." And there's valuable lessons in in our lives for that. I want to say it was when I was on my mission that I started to realize that I need to forget about the future and just worry about what's happening then. And then I started to realize that the worry that I had from the ve very beginning even before I I served the mission. I was like am I going to get married? Am I going to go to school? Am I going to be accepted to universities? I had no clue what was happening. And that is when I began to see a change in my brain because I had been thinking about all of these things that will come up after the future. But then I realized that I had people in front of me that needed to hear me that also I needed to hear what they were saying or listen to them. Right? And so um that is when I began to be in the present and when I began to change my woriness and just worry about that and it was a process. It is not easy to just think in the present. Um especially when you have all of these worries happening and I discovered that it was then when I changed my my priorities and just started to worry about the the present. Then this section contains I think some valuable counsel for what we should do in the moment as well in addition to living for the present. You'll notice um the Lord says to these saints in Ohio in verse two um in part of your lands to the brethren coming from the east uh while I'm living in the moment I should care for others. I I should think about others. I should share. I should be generous. I should be kind. Um I love this verse four. Especially with the college students that I work with. They have such an uncertain future. uh they don't know where they're going to where where life's going to take them, where they're they might go to grad school or their first job or or where where life is going to go. How do you live in an uncertain future? You save for the present. Save all the money that you can. It says in verse four, obtain all that you can in righteousness. Um as I work with college students, I try to teach them to obtain all that they can in righteousness. G get a good degree. Um get get all the education you can, get all the skills that you can. um prepare for an uncertain future by saving a little bit so that when the time comes you will be enabled to purchase land for an inheritance even the city the place is not yet revealed um I have students who don't have it yet revealed where they're going and for for those who have an uncertain future save obtain share and when it is revealed you'll be prepared well this has been such a a wonderful conversation I've absolutely loved it Cynthia you're so great you're you're just so fun to talk to you and you have such an inspiring ing story. Thank you for sharing your testimony with us and your many spiritual gifts. Uh I would just like to ask you before we let you go as you have as if you think about your life, your growing up in Ecuador, finding the church, moving to the states, what keeps you going on the covenant path? Uh I've always wanted to be a disciple of Christ ever since I was little, even before joining the church. It is very joyful for me to know that the savior really wanted my family to know that there's a church that was restored here on earth. And I am very grateful that my parents um decided to come and they never asked me or my brothers to join because they are joining. They asked us to also find out for ourselves. And I know from the very beginning that I received the confirmation from the spirit that the Book of Mormon really is another testament of Jesus Christ. And what keeps me going is that little confirmation that happened then and the more confirmations that I have received throughout the years in the church. It is something very special that we have and that I cherish it a lot and that I know that um when times get hard, faith is there and it keeps me going. I know that when times get hard, those confirmations that I have received, um, I cannot deny it. And I cannot deny that that Christ came to the Americas to my ancestors. And I cannot deny that I once was a representative of him. And I am the very first one to go on a mission from my family. And so my other two brothers went on their missions as well. But knowing that that was open, that opportunity was open for me. It enabled me to open my mind and to know that I'm here to serve him. There's no other um mission that I have. Well, thank you so much for sharing your testimony and it is so beautiful. It's been a pleasure to get to know you and meet you and and hear of all your experiences. Same. Thanks for having me here. And Scott, it's always wonderful to to learn from you and you've done such a great job walking us through and sharing so many wonderful insights from these sections. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. I love being here. Thank you. And for those watching at home, thank you for joining us for this discussion from Doctrine and Covenants, sections 46-48. In addition to weekly episodes, we offer clips, quotes, illustrations, and more available anytime for free at byutv.org or through any of our social media channels. Please join us next week as we study Doctrine and Covenants sections 49 through 50. Thank you for watching. Heat. Heat. [Music]