before Bitcoin I just didn't have a lot of Hope because I just didn't really realize I started my own film company and so obviously if you ever start a company it starts out really slow and it builds over time and that's the idea but like at the beginning of it it seems like just insurmountably be like oh my God I need to make millions of dollars to retire or you know just realizing where boomers are and how far Millennials need to go to get there and it's just like yeah it's hopeless it it felt hopeless and that you know hurts you more than anything and as my my business began to build and I had some money to one reinvest into the business and two save that's when I really started to like do the research into what Bitcoin was and pretty soon in that process it was just very clear to me that it was the best thing to save your economic time and energy in mostly just because it's a finite system all right Beth and Wade welcome to bitcoin for Millennials how's it going thanks for having me on good man well great to see you again I think uh yeah last time we met last and first time we met was in Madera last or earlier this year how was that trip for you it was fun one madira is absolutely stunning I can't wait to get back because I spent most of the time inside interviewing people and I didn't get to drive around the island but oh my God that place is like so crazy and I really love surfing so I was really obsessed with like that too because I write a book one time Barbarian days and it ends in madira and he talks about how amazing the island is and the surfing and whatever so yeah it was a really fun Bitcoin event and I got to meet a bunch of people from Europe that I think probably wouldn't have gotten to meet before like you or and had some really interesting conversations yeah it was great I think it was my my best personal trip that I ever took was so fun to meet other bitcoiners you know like just just Good Vibes yeah well and we recorded some some stuff we'll talk about your work definitely but I wanted to start with yeah kind of like your Bitcoin journey and and ask you the question what was your moment when you realized Bitcoin was worth diving into yeah it's a great question my first touch point with crypto in general was in 2017 just I I live in California so I had friends in Tech and of course like one of my friends in Tech was just like ohow you got to check out this ethereum thing like I just made a ton of money on it and and so of course like me knowing absolutely nothing about that space you know I started to learn a little bit and I bought at the top of the market and watched everything kind of disappear and and of course it was it was not Bitcoin Centric yet it took me a while to get there just like it takes a lot of people a while to get there because there's so much noise in the industry and every year that goes on there's more and more and more noise as well although I think the signal from Bitcoin is growing and growing so I think uh there's going to be a point at which the signal becomes you know know stronger than the noise and people are going to zero back into Bitcoin but yeah that I just kind of forgot about it for about four years and didn't even really participate in the next Bull Run until I realized that like it it you know everything came back and I was like oh wait why like I thought I just like lost my money or whatever on on this stupid crypto stuff and and all of a sudden it's back and and so that was really what catapulted me into at least doing more research to understand like what you know why wasn't this the bubble that I thought it was in 2017 and of course like you know I went through the defi rabbit hole which led me to basically be really confused about what that was and why that was necessary for the world um and I ultimately kind of realized that that crypto the entirety of the crypto space is just remaking the Fiat problem on a blockchain and and it's worse because the Fiat problem is rooted in our governments printing money and you know at least like I don't trust the government that much but like I trust the government more than I would trust the founder of cardano or like vitalic butan or or or anyone else that just like run a crypto scam um essentially that is trying to sell their coin to the world to pump their own bags you know the the US is trying to sell us treasuries to the world to pump their own bags too but there's a lot there's a lot more history behind that but yes of course it took me a while to kind of find the the Bitcoin signal and to be honest like I I listen to a lot of podcasts like uh what Bitcoin did and Bitcoin audible um gu Swan is amazing I love listening to his stuff I love I you know listen to a lot of books on tape as well that he narrates a lot of them too so all that stuff was really pivotal for me just kind of like reframing my thinking about money in general and and then yeah finding other sources of of of Education Swan was another I started using Swan several years ago now but they you know were pushing so much like Bitcoin only education and you know some of their sources some of their rabbit holes that I went down were great and totally pivotal in in me kind of getting the bug and and realizing that it's Bitcoin only and nothing else yeah yeah it's interesting I I love I think the experience of getting into it seeing it all go down thinking you know whatever I gambled and this is it then still seeing it come back years later that that's like a general team that I hear from people right like for a lot of people that that was a signal that you know from their perspective you know in the dot bubble 99% disappeared in the crypto bubble a lot disappeared but also a lot reappeared I would say or or were newly issued right in crypto space more tokens but but in terms of Bitcoin yeah lots of people thought it would die right and because it stayed alive that was a signal for them to actually start paying attention but yeah so so you went into all these podcasts knowledge materials Etc but do you remember like yeah like a AA moment like what was there a moment or a certain understanding that really made it click for you yeah I think it was like a thre pronged thing one it being completely immutable and decentralized that essentially to make any changes to the Bitcoin Network you need like 99 I don't know exactly the numbers but like 99.9% of nodes have to be like yes we will you know do this or and and for that to happen that's uh unlikely um and so you know as the network was designed by Satoshi it's like basically the core basis of it is gonna proliferate for for as long as Bitcoin lives on top of that the governments are just going to continue printing money just to get themselves out of out of debt because it will nominally devalue their debt the more money they print and being able to stomach a huge deflationary bust I just don't feel like governments are are going to get wise and be like hey we should pay down our debt or just don't really think that's going to happen I I think a lot of the people that I've listened to like Greg fos and and other people that talk about like the debt spiral I think that was like in moment for me where I was just like oh yeah this train isn't stopping um you know this Co s that that might have been because of this Global Calamity or whatever that that they printed all this money but now they're just going to print more money every time that there's a collapse they're going to print more and more money and it's going to be orders of magnitude more than the last and and that and also like realizing how that hurts people how that hurts people like me and you and and pretty much anyone that is not you know Elite or very very high net worth person that has like a ton of assets and so yeah and then also just like getting away from the crypto space just realizing that like crypto is remaking Fiat on a blockchain and and why the Fiat system is like kind of destined to really hurt you over the long time or the yeah a longer time frame whereas like Bitcoin is kind of the opposite Bitcoin is really designed to help you over the long term if you have a long enough time Horizon then you're only going to benefit from holding Bitcoin over a long period of time does your Bitcoin custody setup keep you up at night gain peace of mind with onramp and their multi-institution custody solution onramp creates a dedicated multi- signature fold for you and three separate institutions each hold a key which are onam bitco and coin cover but none of them can move funds unilaterally only you have control these institutions can only sign with your instruction on Rams multi-institution custody eliminates single points of failure reduces your personal attack service and Technical burden and provides access to financial services that allow you to secure your Bitcoin including inheritance planning Insurance back warranties for all balances and transactions lowc cost trading and more check out onr bitcoin.com through my link in the description below and receive $250 in Bitcoin when you join yeah I think that element of understanding that crypto is a totally different thing than what Bitcoin is I think you can only Realize by actually also you know participating in it what's the biggest what's the biggest like piece of knowledge that you learn from like getting into this and studying Bitcoin and money what was like the the thing that you learned that you never thought about before well I think that money is like just a really like what was the word I'm thinking of it's like a concept you know money isn't a thing like people like to think like gold is money it's like physical it's like you know you can touch it people that think that you know government money is money you know they touch their cash or or whatever but it's a concept it's and and that concept of you know something that becomes that gains value because of their monetary properties doesn't have to be physical it can be digital as long as it's hard to create finite in Supply then you know that thing could be used and has like a network effect where it's accepted by a certain amount of people that also see it and value it as money um then that can be used as money so when people are like you know bitcoin's not money it's like who are you to say what is or isn't money when there's millions of bitcoiners around the world using it as money you know just because you you think based off your understanding of what money is that Bitcoin isn't money doesn't mean that it isn't what other people see as money and that you should learn what the those concepts are and what those monetary properties are that make good money that have been around for centuries in Millennia you know and and that's why like you know gold basically was like the world Reserve currency for for a long time was because it had those monetary properties but if gold didn't have those monetary properties it wouldn't have become what it was you know it could have been a different metal could have been you know whatever any sort of element that was hard to make scarce and supply and you know divisible and portable over distance is anything that is like that could serve the functions of money assuming that there's enough of a network behind it and people that you know accept it and and see it and use it as money yeah I think I think this is a really interesting point right because if you would ask people are the are the Bills in your in your wallet the only money most people would probably say yes right but the bills in your pocket are a currency and once I learned the difference between currency and money I also realized that not every currency is actually money right and that money is not always it can be engineered right like Fiat money is engineered Bitcoin is engineered but and of course gold was eventually chosen but that was in in a that came about in a natural way also when you compared it to like other medals Etc so it had like the best combination of these characteristics that were needed obviously later you know this was corrupted but I think that's the point why Bitcoin exists as you said it's it's immutable so not being able to change the characteristics of the money is a very important aspect for the money to actually be able to survive for a very very long time but yeah I think I think it's interesting also for for fellow Millennials listening right like what you think is money is is is not necessarily money there's way more types of money you know cigarettes are money in prison you know and and it's because of their monetary properties right like cigarettes like fulfill those monetary properties because you can get them in prison they're scarce I I don't exactly know how this works in prison but just from never been to prison and what not I know that usually it's like there's some sort of like you got to smuggle them in you know so they're scarce in Supply and people want them you know for for whatever reason because they can potentially always give them to someone else in prison to get what they want and you know what they want might be like a bag of chips or like you know or I don't know something bad like a shank yeah but either way they can use that for those things they know that everyone else in that prison will accept those and exactly but it's chosen that it's it's organically chosen or decided upon that it has value right and so that's when it emerges as the money and basically Fiat money is a money that you are forced to use I also came to realize that way way later like it's it's not necessarily and didn't came about in an organic way and I think the this is one of the realizations right because I think a realization after this is I never learned what money is you know yeah and if if you go into that research then that is a very very dense piece of of of knowledge that you can eventually find right like from how money started and Coincidence of WS and you know having a l you know the the big stones with the holes on the island seashells glass beads all these things like that entire history of money is something that at least I never learned about and yeah yeah once you realize that that is the point because there's a third party that influence the influences the money that you are forced to use you know that's kind of when you start seeing that there's a certain part of your reality or understanding of the world that's totally manipulated outside of your control how was that for you yeah I mean just start like realizing that that money money in the past was you know something that just emerged from a bottom up Society culture or whatever and then realizing that really for only the last like 200 years or so money has become this like political top down like you must use the political currency of your region um and if you go anywhere else you also must use that political currency of that region so I think that was like a big like a moment for me where it was like oh like gold was money because the world chose it as so it was you know the thing that most people would accept that most people saw value in because of its monetary properties um but in order to disrupt that you know and it had its like problems right like it moving it in large quantities was hard expensive and dangerous and gold was very easy to steal from people so there was an incentive to basically enslave people and steal from them or you know commit violent acts against them and that's like another thing about Fiat money too that like totally like blew my mind when I was learning about all this stuff is it's a it's very violent system you don't un like you don't see this on your day-to-day especially me coming from like a Western Country I live in the United States so like you know I don't see that Fiat money is violent because I just go down to my local grocery store more like well coffee shop and I buy the things that I buy and that's all that's how I interact with the money but when you understand that the system of control in order to get basically the whole world to Value us treasuries we've been putting our hands into you know or just meddling with Affairs in all these different countries and forcing countries to use our currency uh and so and really like Alex gladstein work and a few other people really blew my mind I think coming back to your question before was like one of the big things there's so many big things that blew my mind that it's like hard to really narrow it down to one but understanding how the US manipulates the rest of the world and particularly countries in the global South to to get exports that they want so that essentially we in the West can have nice things that that people have you know that people like but we're exploiting other countries enslaving them with huge debt burdens that are denominated in dollars which are are inflating less than their local currency so it's a deflationary debt and if you know anything about debt like you know if you have a deflationary debt and your debt is essentially getting harder to pay off over time and the currency that you're trying to pay it off in is getting weaker over time it's just like this Cy you're just never going to get out of debt it's like having an extremely high interest rate credit card or or payday loan or something like it's just like it's it's gonna outpace your ability to pay it off but that's also the point you know and it really like I've talked to some people about this and and I get really fired up about it and I start like speing all this information and people are like sometimes are like Whoa man this sounds like a conspiracy theory and and it does sometimes well it is an actual conspiracy true that's a good point it's funny right like a conspiracy is just people together devise a plan that they are going to execute they conspire to execute right yeah exactly right and when you started talking about the corpocracy and in America conspiring with the government to essentially enslave these countries with debt burdens they can never pay off so that we can change how the economy Works in their country put people in power that we want to be in power that will do you know be the puppet that we want them to be so that essentially they can give us one exports that we want like shrimp or you know whatever quinoa and hire American companies or west companies to then do large infrastructure projects in those countries so you're essentially giving them on the loan so that they can pay our own companies in the west to come in and do infrastructure projects that aren't necessarily even making the lives of people in those countries better and if you look at it through that lens it's just like it's so horrible and it it makes you realize like you know the privilege that that we have in the west that's the violence the money and it and it props up this privilege and and our lifestyles and we're all guilty of it like I eat quinoa still and shrimp you know and I I guarantee you those that it's those products are or at least some of those products are coming from Bolivia and Sri Lanka and and these other countries that are essentially being forced to make that because of our Western tastes yeah and so yeah it's just like that just that realizing that Fiat money is is causing these really bad externalities in the rest of the world even though you're not like seeing them or feeling them on the day-to- day that blew my mind enough that I was like okay I don't even want to like support this system anymore and you know what is the alternative to that it's Bitcoin that that's the only alternative that there is as far as I'm concerned you know and on top of that there are like also Economic Consequences of of using political currencies that are interesting and alter markets in ways like essentially you know British cars like if if there's a demand for British cars in you know the UK from outside countries and people are going to start buying pounds to buy British cars because you have to pay for British cars in pounds and that basically jacks up the the strength of the British pound which also jacks up the price of everything in the UK not just cars and so this comes back to like austrialian economics and Hayek and these are some of the things that I learned in madira when I was talking to some Australian economists was basically that like distorts the system of value movement around the world so just by having all these different political currencies some going up in value some going down in value I mean it's just always like constantly in flux that alters the prices of goods for for people that just want those goods whereas if you had a Global Currency that everyone used the you know increase in the price of goods would be reflected just in the cars and not in the rest of the goods in that country as well so little things like that just like keep like dinging in your mind when you're starting to learn this and obviously like we live in a globalized world you know we're constantly buying things from other countries and exporting things to countries we can travel around the world within a matter of days it makes sense to move towards a Global Currency yeah and especially when considering all this backstory and violence around Fiat and all this like voluntary particip participatory democracy that Bitcoin is Right everyone that is using Bitcoin was not forced to use Bitcoin they just learned about what it was and they chose that money for them and it's going to continue to be like that I mean I think the only counter argument to that is like uh from normes that don't know much about Bitcoin in general I will add but like I've had some of my friends be like well you know El savador like kind of did a top- down thing in their country saying that like that is the currency that they use now and you know my counter argument to that is like it's not it's still voluntary in El salador I I believe that they can still use pesos and I I believe that most people in Al salador still use pesos however the people that use Bitcoin are going to see the benefits of Bitcoin and you know the country has essentially stated that like this is our ethos like this is we're going to save in Bitcoin and we want you to use Bitcoin because we know that it's good for you so if you're willing to learn about it and and learn how you can use it and learn how you can Sav in it then you will benefit over the long term but we're not necessarily gonna like force everyone to do it I don't know just gonna you know gently push you towards this solution that we feel like is good for the world yeah I think I think that's a that's a really great point right like in we say in Bitcoin you follow rules instead of rulers right so that means that everyone voluntarily agrees to the transparent rules that everyone voluntarily agrees to compared to everyone must agree to opaque rules that a small set of rulers have agreed to you know just that you know what I what I like and I wanted to touch upon what you said a while back just once you hear those two statements right I think what I really want to emphasize also for people listening who are like you know researching Bitcoin still just think about that like do you want a mini set of people that you know create rules that you are forced to follow or do you want a system that has rules that everyone can see that you can voluntarily agree to right like everyone would want the letter that's yeah what I would assume right but I think it it eventually touches upon you know certain moral questions I think what you said you know I I I I would assume you know John Perkin you know the economic Hitman guy you know that like he has two books right the confessions of economic Hitman watch the podcast with him you should ask you had a podcast with him no I watched a podcast with him oh okay where he explained basically yeah that that would be great yeah he explained what you just shared that you know basically like colonialism is still alive but it's Financial colonialism right and the entire world as simplistic as it sounds is a game of Risk and re and you know risk as it the table game Risk right like it it's a battle for resources and he explains how they target countries that you know they already analyzed that they would never be able to pay a certain debt but then through like cover companies you know they get in there they give them advice like oh you should upgrade your electricity Network then everyone has electricity you know we have we can advise an American company to do that who like like yeah if you you know get in touch with this and this well it's the IMF basically you know to to give them loans they could give it to you or then you can build electricity Network right and then an American company makes the electricity Network everyone happy because they have electricity then they have to pay back the debt they know they can you know do payments for five years but then they're going to have problems and then they already know exactly what they're going to ask from this country in return right and as you said control over certain crops or Harbors or you know what whatever they found was interesting in that country and yeah as you said like when you start talking about that people are like whoa whoa whoa like that sounds really rough like my government you know would never would never do that because I had such an amazing I had such an amazing life or upbringing where you know there was food and water and shelter and you know entertainment and all these things especially for Millennials i' would say you know we grew up in The Best Time Ever So when you say like well you grew up in the best time ever because your country was like pillaging all these places all over the world yeah you know that's such a harsh thing to be confronted with that of course you say well that's a conspiracy theory right but I think it touches on like a kind of this moral thing right as as you said like as long as you participate in it you are also guilty of it right like if if if you use Fiat money although you are not hungry right because you have money you still support some sort of conflict some sort of War some type of pillaging from your country or you know your union or whatever around the world and that is just the truth right so even if you're listening and you feel like uncomfortable with that like yeah you should get it is uncomfortable but it is the truth right and I think for me at least like in this journey of Bitcoin like those moments that are not even about Bitcoin you know the workings of Bitcoin but really more about the problem and this level of abuse of money that we just never thought about never learn about right like that that is a very confrontational thing and a hard thing to swallow yeah and and uh those books are amazing I think anyone listening to this who hasn't read those books should go read them they're like super eye opening I guess to add to that like the the actual pillaging is not just the unpayable debts and the you know forcibly making exports or changing the exports and imports of of the country it's that if the country doesn't want to do that if they have leaders that get wise to essentially the control and the slavery that is that is going on through these policies from that are coming from the World Bank and the IMF and they say no no way we're not going to do what you tell us to do then the CIA comes in and they assassinate the leader and they put you know a dictator in that will do what the US wants them to do essentially and it's like that that you know part of it is what at least when I've talked with people they're like no wet we don't do that like that's horrible you know like how well that's the story of Gaddafi right yeah Gaddafi wanted to unify a certain group of African countries create a gold back currency yeah yeah and that threatens the US you knowy and and you again like the Iraq War as well like when I was very young when this happened so I had absolutely no I guess mental concept of you know some some weird Shady stuff going on but Saddam Hussein wanted to sell oil in euros and that also threatened the US hemony on and our world Reserve currency and would set a precedent for everyone else in the world to essentially sell oil for euros and so we really didn't want that and so you know Bush literally made up a lie that there was weapons of mass destruction so that we could go into that country and essentially try to regain control and put another dictator or you know or some other Democratic like government in that would just essentially do what the US wanted them to do and I'm not by any means saying that sdam Hussein is a good guy he was terrible absolutely and you know but it you know you you can't deny that that was likely a factor in realiz or in in us going to war against Afghanistan yeah and Iraq EXC yeah so now that you studied this and you know this I think we find it interesting to to to talk about right how do you experience talking about Bitcoin and stuff like this in like your Social Circle or with your generational peers dude it's hard to be honest like I there's only a few people that I know that that are really willing to have the deeper conversations that I am passionate about because like you can't just like unload all this on someone that like isn't ready for like there is some prep that you know some some groundwork that needs to be laid in order for them to be accepting of of certain ideas and understand implication for you of things and and to be honest I find it really hard like I find it really hard to talk to to just bring up Bitcoin in a conversation to someone who who knows nothing about it has only heard about it through you know the mainstream media and thus likely thinks that it's a scam or bubble or doesn't you know has realized that it has continued to go up over time but doesn't understand why and they still think that you know it's you know it's a greater Fool's thing like whoever that that you're essentially the bitcoiners are buying Bitcoin in order to dump at a higher price on other newcomers which makes them think it's Ponzi scheme or whatever and you know the reality is there are some people that are trying to dump their Bitcoin or other crypto currencies on other people at a higher price I think that pretty much much defines the crypto industry as a whole another reason why Bitcoin is not like crypto but bitcoiners they're not buying Bitcoin to dump on other people they're buying Bitcoin because that's the truest hardest form of money that exists in the world and they understand that and recognize that in all the different ways uh that are important and we're buying it because we want to essentially preserve our purchasing power over time and we expect that other people are going to figure that out as well in the future and will accept Bitcoin because it is the truest hardest form of money in the world and so you know I'm buying Bitcoin because I will exchange it for other things in the future and and essentially to preserve my purchasing power so I'm not getting poor slowly I'm not buying Bitcoin to dump at you know on other people at a higher price that's just like not what the the revolution is about and and in fact it's counterproductive as well to do that yeah well yeah we're not buying Bitcoin to D dump Bitcoin at a later price we're buying Bitcoin to dump our our Fiat our Fiat money right we're selling the field money basically and I don't know if you can hear the thunder by the way but it's I can't but that's cool I love Thunder that's that's good well then that that means my mic doesn't pick it up but it's crazy it's it's like crazy outside yeah well it's that right but I I also you know it it takes some time to get there but it's literally I think if if you boil that down to the core it's like okay I'm forced to use a certain kind of money I realize that this is not working for me in general right because it's debased over time so I I need more units to pay for the same things that's inflation price inflation and I want something to I want something that I can use to store my economic energy you know in in time and space into into the future so I can build a family or build a business or whatever like the entire point of Saving right and I wanted to ask you what what has been like the biggest change in think in in in your thinking about how to build and store wealth as compared to what you've been taught for example by you know your parents or the society that you grew up and I think that's an interesting question for Millennials in general because I personally think that everything that we were taught or told is not really achievable for us anymore yeah 100% I mean before Bitcoin I I was like you know I just didn't have a lot of Hope because I I I just did didn't really realize I started my own film company right and and so obviously if you ever start a company it starts out really slow and and it builds over time right and that's the idea but like at the beginning of it it seems like just insurmountable be like oh my God I I need to make like millions of dollars to retire or you know just realizing where boomers are and how far Millennials need to go to get there and it's just like yeah it it's hopeless it it felt hopeless at the time because I was just like I don't know how I'm ever going to like buy a house like you know my parents did it by buying houses and now they're retired and they're happy and and that was like their way to essentially like store value over you know time and space and and so like sure like you could essentially take the same standpoint and be like okay I need to buy one house and then I need to fix it up and then I need to sell it and then I need to buy another house and then I need to fix that one up and then sell it and you know just snowball this thing over many de ades until your house is paid off and and and maybe you've saved some in stocks and you have maybe you have a pension or you're collecting Social Security but at least you're not paying for housing um so then you know you get to a point where you have enough money and cash flow coming in to essentially retire you don't have to pay for housing anymore but basically like I don't know that didn't seem achievable for me I wasn't anywhere close to being able to buy a house and and so I was just I started to look for other options um and of course that leads people like any type of short-term thinking will lead people to gambling and and making short-term bets you know buying single stocks too which can be a good thing obviously if if you're if you're smart if you do your due diligence and and figure out that it's a good company to buy but there's also people that are just like not going to do that due diligence and they're going to be they're just going to think that you know maybe like this mushroom company or maybe this you know tech company or this you know other oil company or or something is is going to preserve my purchasing power and then they could just be totally wrong about that and have you know a decade or more of sideways price action coming from that stock and that you know hurts you more than anything and so as my business began to to build and and I had some money to one reinvest into the business and two save that's when I really started to like kind of do the research into what Bitcoin was and it pretty soon in that process it was just very clear to me that it was the best thing to save your economic time and energy and mostly just because it's a finite system and we know exactly how it will be issued for the next 120 something years so you know a good example is like if people knew what the profit and earnings of Apple would be 20 years from 2006 or whatever to where we are now obviously everyone would buy it because they would be like holy this is a massive company my orange light just went off sorry I was trying to make it very orange and Bitcoin but but yeah so if you knew what better than my backdrop anyway dude yeah then you know that's a huge thing it's the future certainty is is a huge thing you probably wouldn't buy anything else as well the thing is we we know that with Bitcoin we know the issuance Supply we know how much will be available through mining on the market 20 years from now and so that future certainty is is necessary in order to hold it for the long term and sailor likes to say like it Bitcoin is the only thing that you would hold for 100 years like no company you could you could never be confident enough in a company to last 100 years through many generations of CEOs and and lots of decisions and lots of changes and product changes and whatever in that company it's like you just don't know with Bitcoin you know you know exactly what it will look like in 100 years you don't know the price of course but you know how the network will work and so yeah I think the biggest difference between like the boomer generation and the millennial generation is uh diversification I think Millennials don't need to be as Diversified because Bitcoin exists I think they should probably hold most of their value at least 50% in Bitcoin and then you know I think you can still invest but I think your Baseline has to be bit coin now and so if you're if you're investing with the idea that you want to beat the S&P 500 that's the wrong bench mark to try to beat you now need to beat Bitcoin and and to beat Bitcoin you need to invest and get an annualized return of like 50% or more and that will probably come down in the future but it that comes back to like okay well do you want to be Diversified in 100 different stocks and index funds and ETFs or do you just want a hold Bitcoin that's going to outperform all of those things anyway and you know the world's not there yet there's like where what I don't know what we're at like 0.1% of like Global adoption of Bitcoin but like people will figure this out it's not hard like I'm not like that technical of a person I make films you know I'm a very creative person I know how to use computers but like I don't code and it took me like two years I think of research to be like holy like this like I'm all in you know well I think you're you're the perfect example for this right like real real I'm not Ultra geek super professional like you no no but I mean like you know your stuff right like you you love this you know and yeah I can imagine but please correct me if I'm wrong this is the only thing you would ever want to do right and because that makes you better at what you do if you are better at what you do more people would want to work with you you could make more money your value goes up all these things right but after that like after receiving this reward you have to figure out like how am I going to store this and you just mentioned some things right like okay you could do stocks and this and that and think about I don't know mushroom company whatever but like the question is would you want to do that when you come home from filming I don't know a movie or a short film or you know whatever like do you want to sit down on your computer and and and go to your like stock brokerage and figure out like oh should I should I move today like what was the news on on on Financial Times or Bloomberg or whatever like is that something you would want to do and you know I'll just fill it in but I think the answer is no and that's the entire point of Bitcoin is and and this would be my question also once you understand that this is the best way to save the economic energy that you re receive as a reward for your work whatever you do you love films in this you know making making films in this example want you understand that this is the best thing to to save that in and when you start doing it you actually free up your mind to focus more on what you love 100% And and actually I think that's like one of my Great Hopes for Bitcoin um or how at least Bitcoin could influence the world over the next several decades is that like it just it it just allows people to focus on what they like doing more and even companies like just entities in general like if you like think of you know the Sailor model now of essentially accumulating as much Bitcoin as possible in the corporate treasury I mean you don't necessarily have to go quite as far as he has if you're a small company and you just acquire some Bitcoin in your Treasury and that gives you enough of a padding where you're actually not kind of worrying quite as much on what your bottom line is what your quarterly profits are and you're more worried about like the quality of your product and and just genuinely like enjoying what you're doing as a company making your employees more happy with like you know their experience within the company will also make them work harder um and you know and being able to preserve their purchasing power too won't make your employees like need to be investors behind the you know the lines essentially like you know they show up to work they go home from work they buy Bitcoin and they're good like Bitcoin and chill kind of is like the the philosophy there whereas like the philosophy now generally accepted philosophy is like you go to work you get money and then you invest it in index funds and ETFs and you might need a investment manager some sort of money manager that because you don't have time and the knowledge exactly because you're just like I don't know what vti is this is I call this the bonsi like this is this is why you know it's it's it's yeah it's just a distraction it's it's such a distraction from again you're the prime example just doing doing what you love and becoming better at that right yeah 100% And and spending more time on your friends and family you know like after work like I want to hang out my girlfriend and my dog you know I want to go on walks I want to go do Sports I want to you know I I love skiing I I was a ski bum for a while now I work too much to really claim that but I do still like to ski a lot and and so like I want to do things that make me happy in my life and and not worry about like making money I don't know like it it also seems like obviously like money is a good thing I think sometimes it can be perceived especially in the Fiat system as like a bad thing to and maybe that's how some normies perceive it too when they see bitcoiners like being really into money they're like e like you know why are you into money so much bro like but isn't it more about becoming better at what you do and and therefore making more money right that that that is way more rewarding I would yes 100% I mean I think it's just like developing a the skill you know becoming a professional and and always constantly developing your skill like you know you might be a professional engineer at 25 um but at 45 you want to be a better engineer than you were at 25 and so it's like just you know the constant compounding growth of your skills and not necessarily of your ability to invest the money that you get through doing those skills yeah just goes back to your initial question though was just like if you if you give people the ability to save their purchasing power over time without having to think about it then they're inevitably going to spend more time on the things that they value in their life the most and that might be their professional life that might be their personal life that might be their athletic life but in any shape or form that leads to positive things positive you know growth in communities positive growth in societies positive growth in the world yeah and so for you adopting Bitcoin focusing on your craft how how has that influenced your long-term thinking have you like I've argued this before like I I I think it kind of goes like this and again I think you're a good example I don't know what your big idea is right for what you would want to do I mean you you did some cool stuff but I can imagine maybe want to make a full documentary or movie or some you have some crazy idea right and to execute on that you would need the time to figure out how to execute on that best and if you would be busy with you know picking picking which stocks to to invest in or being on the phone with your investment guy you know taking up that time you would not have the time to to to work on your great thing your big thing whatever it is so how is adopting Bitcoin influence your long-term thinking about yeah something like this or has it enabled you to actually start working on your big thing yeah I mean both I think yes for for both things but I'll explain one it's enabled me to to start the channel that I've started bit intelligence uh and to do the videos that I I've been doing one just you know having like you know fund of liquid money that you can essentially take more risks because of I think that has enabled me to make films about what I've wanted to make about and and that's like Bitcoin for the last like I guess year and a half but also like long-term thinking like I don't know I I've always been one to like put a lot of effort into things that I'm passionate about but as I've gotten older I've realized those passions they shift every decade it seems to be a little different than it was the decade previously uh and so my great hope for this is like I I'll make films for the rest of my life but even if I'm not working anymore I'll be doing it for fun and so hopefully Bitcoin helps me have the optionality in the future to essentially continue to pursue things that I find interesting intellectually you know like a like a good intellectual Pursuit right right now that happens to be helping educate about Bitcoin and and the positive impacts that it could have on the world because I think it's vastly underestimated right now and there's only a few you know there's lots of us in the Bitcoin Community but that's a very small percentage of the whole world so right now I want to help with that a lot a decade from now when you know the world is more educated on bitcoin maybe I'll still be doing this or maybe I'll have you know moved to other things that I care about that I don't even know that I care about as much right now or or who knows maybe I'll be spending more time with my family or or doing you know various various things so I think like the the great you know thing about Bitcoin is just providing you the optionality in the future to choose what you spend your time on and and and that's entirely up to you and there there is no wrong answer it's like you know you could spend your time and energy on a startup if you you know really want to or or maybe you could even fund your own startup without having to you know take external money from other people that would be a great thing too and and I think would lead to to good things in in the startup Industries I don't know you work with startups right yeah I I love I love I love what you say there like the the gives you the optionality to let's say try and research and figure out what you're actually here to do I've said something similar before but I think this is really it because there's so many people who are stuck in their feia job that they hate yeah they're not happy in the morning they're not happy when they go there right like they don't feel they're contributing or using their skills or intelligence or interest and you know you you stick with that job because yeah you're scared to take the leap to do another thing you know so you are kind of hijacked in a sense and yeah I love this angle of Bitcoin because I think this would solve a lot of problems just in general psychological spiritual problems of of of of people right if you would have the time and space to either keep huning in on your craft or working on it expending on that growing that or having the time and space to figure out you know what I'm I actually here to contribute I I think there's nothing more important to that that how can I cont contribute to my community and I think that's like especially with the internet and and you know household culture and and everything I think a lot of people are just like I I I need to get the highest paying job so that I can save the most money and and you know essentially like retire but it's like they're not really thinking about what what can they do for their Community like where they live like we're we're all online so much and there are online communities too but I think like real in-person communities are very important and it's a hope of mine that like you know more people using Bitcoin over long periods of time will then turn around the fruits of their labor and give it back to their community in some way by building you know God knows what but like stuff that benefits other people that have been less fortunate in their Community or you know yeah just stuff like that I I think like yeah yeah I would love to do that in the future I haven't you know put a whole ton of thought into like what that would look like but you know I love I live in a wonderful place and there's a lot of wonderful people here um but we also have a lot of problems you know there's housing crisis there's housing crisis going on in the whole world but particularly here and and inflation has hit our community way higher than the CPI numbers that they're telling us which is true for everyone but also particularly here like you know our gas pric has been flirting with $7 a gallon for like years you know housing prices like our average house price here is like a million dollars which is like twice the national average or something and so yeah when you look at it like that and then also realize that there's also a lot of service jobs that serve you know I live in a vacation destination so yeah there there must be basically service jobs that serve to the people who are vacationing here um but those people can't afford to live here anymore and and there's a shortage of service workers there's shortage of people working at you know the ski resorts there's a shortage of like a lot of things and prices just keep going up and it's like that's the hopelessness of Fiat right like when there's already a problem and you're just like this isn't going to get solved you know like prices are going to keep going up like housing is gonna keep going up like we're not just going to like solve the housing crisis by building affordable housing that might help in the short term but especially if you're using like a ton of government subsidies to to build affordable housing which is adding to inflation because like the core thing that creates inflation is government's printing money you know lot lots of people in government like to point at other things for what creates inflation and it's like you know there are a lot of complicated factors that create inflation and you should probably read Lynn alin's Book broken money and listen to what she has to say I think she has probably something best overarching descriptions of of how inflation works but if you want to boil it down to like you know the simplest thing it's like money supply goes up prices go up exactly yeah well I love the visualization of you didn't know the visualization of the skill where you have like amount of money on one side and prices on the other side and if the amount of money gets heavier the prices goes up like that that's the only thing you need to know and I would agree with Lyn Alden I think if you don't want to read the book there's like a 34 Minute vid if you look on if you search on YouTube Linn Alden L Lyn Alden broken money then that that is probably 80% of your entire education on money in 34 minutes I would say yeah it's very dense video and it's packed with like awesome animations and good good visuals to kind of understand it but yeah like I don't know just getting back to like the community stuff it's like when you see that happening and you can't figure out you can't see like a way out that's what causes this hopelessness that's what causes Millennials to be like oh well like I'm just going to like live my life like I'm gonna you know go adventure around in Van and just like try to live life to the fullest now because like I don't know what the future is going to look like and you know it it certainly doesn't seem like it's going to look like positive in the future based off like all these things that are happening and so I might as well take advantage of my present and and I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that that thinking what it cuz like yeah like you're young like go go enjoy your life to the fullest while you're young but also like it's important to have somewhat of a long-term mindset it's important to think a decade out in the future because like you know the decisions you make today are inevitably going to affect you know Ripple affect your life in the future and even just myself like moving to the place where I moved like I was an architect when I moved here I didn't have plans of like starting a film company and becoming a filmmaker and and ultimately leading myself to where I am now with it and I'm a decade down the road from my initial choice to like buy a camera and move to where I live and and it's totally changed my life and I think for the better although you never know what different paths you would lead you to but but I think like it's important to to look far out in your own future and plan accordingly and and Bitcoin allows you to to plan like that financially because there is a regularity in the increase in bitcoin price no matter how much you want to argue against that the volatility is Extreme but you know people in Bitcoin all understand that volatility is not risk risk is is basically counterparty and there is no counterparty risk in Bitcoin if you hold it in a self- sovereign way and and so you minimize your risk and if you have a long enough time Horizon the volatility doesn't matter and then all of a sudden you have a way to plan you have a way to plan for 8 12 years into the future and and even though you don't necessarily know like what the price of Bitcoin will be you just know it will be likely higher than it is now on you at least a fouryear Time Horizon do you do you see it as only like a technology or then also as a philosophy Bitcoin well definitely a philosophy and and that's mostly like you know the long extending your time Horizon you know if you have a lower time preference and you're willing to sacrifice your decisions or your consumption today for you know but potentially a brighter future tomorrow then that influences like every choice you make in your life and and that's I think what bitcoiners are really trying to get across to people is like this is such a fundamental shift in society that it literally like when you adopt this money no matter what level you adopt it really but the more you adopt it the greater the influence is it influences your decisions in life and it influences like how you think about like the future and and what choices you make in in your own personal life whether that be you know with relationships or or with you know just like purchases or or other other things like that investment into your own self you know and and like say you want to start a company it's like do you start that company now or do you save a little bit and then start it with a treasury four years from now I don't know it depends like those are all it might be better to start it now it might be better to start it four years from now these are all decisions that you have to make but understanding Bitcoin is going to be an important part of those decisions and so yeah I I lost my train of thought to be honest yeah no no I asked about the philosophy but I think I think you you you you touched on that right like it's I think that the part of it is this longer term time frame longer term thinking you know creating I'd say or having the possibility to create this future path for yourself I think is is a big thing for that but yeah what what ties into that and I wanted to ask you like you know you you were honing in on the on the film craft but you were also you just mentioned like you have a YouTube channel called bit intelligence and you made short films with toas Strite who's also been on the podcast and we're recording again soon so I'm super happy because he's my favorite writer and thinker so you have that the YouTube or as I said your channel and you made a series with swan called 21 Voices what motivated you to actually start contributing to bitcoin with your craft like how did that go I think I I realized just how impactful Bitcoin was going to be on the world in both economic philosophical and you know mathematical way you know the the work that I've done with toor has been really transformative for me really diving deep in into was writing and whatnot like he was definitely I I read several of his articles um while I was you know doing my initial Research into Bitcoin and and his articles were always the ones that like opened my eyes up into to like this deeper aspect of Bitcoin that goes beyond the numbers it goes beyond you know the this is why you shouldn't invest in in in Bitcoin for you know like profit purpose and it really brought it back to like those core values as a human and as a society and realizing that like the incentives the entire like incentive structure shifts from something that is kind of like bad I guess like Fiat incentives are kind are bad they like incentivize you to like lie cheat and steal even though not everyone does that but like if you do that and I think you I'm not going to name any names right now but if you think about prominent people in you know that have really profited in the Fiat space like they've generally done some trady stuff you know whether we know about all of it or not and and the people that have profited in Bitcoin have just believed in Bitcoin from the very beginning and there you know of course like there's always Bad actors and there's always people without morals and and there will continue to be people like that in the future but the core incentives incentivize you to play by the rules you know everyone accepts voluntarily accepts we we were talking about this earlier you know the rules that that Bitcoin abides by and and thus is incentivized to also play by those rules because if you don't then essentially you don't gain the benefits that Bitcoin gives you exactly yes and and so yeah I think like from a a fundamental like morality standpoint like Bitcoin is a moral form of money because it's a truthful form of money it's it's a form of money that doesn't discriminate against who you are or you know wherever you are in the world it it doesn't you know it allows anyone to use it and and it doesn't steal from you I that's the biggest thing is like Fiat just like constantly steals from you and and some Fiat currencies steal from you a lot others steal from you less but regardless like they're they're stealing value from you and essentially pulling it to you know the government and and the global Elite and so like resetting the economy on a Bitcoin standard prevents that from happening and so yeah I mean stealing is bad yeah I I'm losing my train of thought a little bit but I love it I love it I see your you're you're thinking you're thinking while talking no okay I I asked about you know what what what made you like contrib started to contribute to to bitcoin but I want I wanted to mention the films for people who want to look them up right so it's Bitcoin is generational wealth Bitcoin is beautiful and the legendary legendary treasure of Satoshi yeah actually I only did the the legendary treasure yeah but those two previous ones that that toor has put out like bitcoin's generational wealth is an amazing film and it was actually like this answers your recent question like that was one of the films that I watched and I was like one I was really moved because at that point I had kind of likecoin but I'd never really seen it like condensed into a like a 14-minute film like that with like emotional music that like it it really like made me feel something and that's the beauty of film is like you know you combine visuals with audio and you know and you get emotion and and so I I watched that and I I said to myself I think I can make something similar to this and and maybe I should try and I was also like that was back when like the AI stuff was coming out chat GPT had been around for a few months then and maybe more than a few months but whatever I was like looking into different AI tools to help me with my job and you know mid journey and Runway to animate visuals and you know I I don't know necessarily where all that stuff has a has a place right now but I know that it will have a place and I was like might as well teach myself this stuff and and that's when I started to like you know make make these little films and and generally I I just kind of started stealing toor's work to use as like because they were like really emotional pieces of work and I I thought that if I could add music to them and and add some some some visuals to them that that I could like kind of augment the the power that they had just in their writing form and yeah it was funny like before I had met toor at all I I had made some with his his articles and and one of the first ones I made I like rewrite the whole article because I was like I don't want to like plagiarize him necessarily I don't know this guy and but of course like I'm not a writer and so like I just it wasn't as good like it didn't it didn't flow as well and and so the next one I made I just like I took a Verbatim online and you know converted it with like an AI speech processor and and then and then did that and sent it to him and and when he saw it he that's when you know we started to develop a working relationship and and just start working on some of these projects and and eventually I think when he saw you know the AI process was definitely like it was a developing thing at the beginning of this channel Still Still is of course but like I hadn't really like figured out the right style yet so as he saw more of those those videos come out and and me start to nail the style a little bit better that's when he like you know was like you should do the legendary treasure ofi nakoto it's very long but maybe we should do it over a couple months because I think it'll have you know a lot of impact and and it it has I mean it's gotten more views on a video than I I think I've ever gotten you know I've done a lot of like brand documentaries I I've done some things on YouTube like previous YouTube channel that have gotten in the six figure range but just barely and and so that was cool like to see that people like watched it and enjoyed it the actual film I think is people I've gotten critiques from people that are are like it feels really like cultish which I I definitely kind of agree agree with because I think it's a film for bitcoiners and specifically for bitcoiners that and that aren't necessarily like die hard Maxis yet because you do have to kind of understand some basic things about Bitcoin to get why it is philosophic an you know a step change for Humanity and in order to get that stuff you just have to know like some basic things about Bitcoin and and if you if you're not a maxi yet I I feel like that that film could help you understand why maybe you should be a maxi yeah and forget about all these other shitcoins that you're playing with trying to make a few bucks on because it's it's Bitcoin it's Bitcoin that's going to make an influence in the world it shows you shows you beyond this the te technical part right so you you can understand Bitcoin on the technical part you can understand the problem that it solves I think also that we talked about right but the the bigger implication of what is the well what is the implication of a better money of a perfectly engineered money and why is it important that we don't know who made it that they're gone that they're Anonymous and all these things I think that is what I loved about about this is that you you take it to a higher plane basically and you show the importance of the well the discovery or the invention of Bitcoin and the discovery of of finite digital scarcity and yeah I I absolutely loved it I just checked it it as a 150k views I think it's very cool and do you have any plans to make more of these movies or like what's like what's what's the main next thing for for bit intelligence yeah good question I mean I think the the 21 Voices Series has been excuse me has has been doing pretty well um I think people are liking it i I've definitely enjoyed making them I know I will likely probably make some other AI films with toer in the future I know he's working on a couple new articles which should be really fun and exciting and so when when those come out I'm sure that we'll probably reopen a discussion about making something similar to the legendary treasure again but yeah I mean like I recently I watched the the thank God for bit Bitcoin film that Swan put out and loved it it was really long but like I don't know like stuff like that like that is an amazing film that took years to create like I I would love to work on more films like that that really like utilize my cinematography skills you know because like basically what I do for work is I like go out on these trips and I like interview people and then like go film them doing stuff and in the last you know few years it's mostly been like fishing films I've been working in the commercial fishing arena for a while I was working in you told me deadly sketch you did deadly sketch right yeah yeah I wasn't working for deadle cash but I I essentially did the exact same thing that they do um yeah every every season and I work with one of yeah the the wife of one of the people that was on that show and and so that's like where you know the commercial fishing stuff came from we we met at a conference one time on a shoot and and then we just started getting talking about about all this stuff you know it's important to network with with people even if you don't know much about the industry because I I wasn't a fisherman myself but you know to get back to bitcoin I guess yeah I think like the future of forbit intelligence is really hopefully making more like real films like where I show up at a location whether that is a methane mining site you know and I'm covering like how these miners are basically capturing this methane from a landfill and you know and burning it to Bitcoin which is doing great things for the environment or you know showing up yeah I don't know I I have a few I'm working on a few ideas but basically I would love to make real films not just like stock footage stuff you know the stock footage stuff is I think it works it's helpful for normies more than it is for like season bitcoiners I guess that's another point I'll make is like the 21 Voices series like it's definitely geared for people that like don't haven't like fully grasped the concepts of Bitcoin yet and I guess for people that just like kind of want to be reminded about their conviction but the people that like you know you and I and others in in the Bitcoin space like we get it we understand it it is like as much as it is like an intellectual understanding of the technology it's also like a feeling once you understand what sound money is and how it the implications that returning to a sound money system that will actually not centralize over time and how you know that will posibly affect Humanity that that is you know once you understand it you like start to have all these like individual thoughts about like how that could impact humanity and that is it is like a feeling it's like I feel that you know or and I I know that Bitcoin will influence my local community because of X Y and Z it's going to bring down the price of housing it's going to bring down you know it's going to allow people working in service Industries to save more money and and thus have greater optionality in in life and be able to afford homes and and afford the life that they want to live instead of just constantly grinding and grinding and grinding never feeling like they can ever get ahead and so yeah I mean basically I just I just want to keep educating people and I want to see I want to see the changes start to happen you know I I don't know how long it's going to take but like you know 10 years from now I can only imagine that Bitcoin adoption is going to be vastly greater than it is now 20 years from now 30 years from now like I don't know like how long it'll take for the world to get on a Bitcoin standard could you know could take a hundred years I could not be alive but at the very least I know that like when I'm of age to retire the world's going to look a lot different than it than it does today yeah well I'll have I have some ideas as well maybe we should Jem after after you yeah answer my last question which I ask everyone the same question which is what is a core belief that you will never let go core belief that on there does have to be Bitcoin related or I guess I mean everything's Bitcoin related I mean I think it's like Integrity like I think it's important to to have integrity in in your life and that that also comes like with what money you choose to use I guess if I want to make a direct relationship to bitcoin right like I think like if if you live your life trying to cheat your way into things or you know fake it till you make it which is actually a good I mean it's a bad thing to say right now because I think it fing it till you make it is probably is a good thing because you need to learn the skills in order to you know do the thing that you want to do but but if you're not doing it in a with with Integrity then I just don't think you're it will lead you to really like positive outcomes uh and you might be a person that can get away with a lot of things you know or has had has been able to kind of cheat your way through life but but if you if you act with Integrity if you choose your money with Integrity there's you know positive things will happen and you know down the line so think think longer term and act with integrity and yeah hope for the best in the future awesome man well thanks so much for sharing and thanks so much for this conversation really enjoyed it stay in touch and maybe we can make something together in the future that would be cool yeah I would love to honestly awesome Let's Jam about it man cheers thank you I hope you enjoyed this episode if you did also make sure to check out this video right here or go to my page and check out all the episodes of Bitcoin for Millennials I appreciate your support and hope to see you for another episode bye [Music]