MOA Adam mukin who is the current CEO of pfchangs anybody you talk to you know knows PF Changs grew up near one loves it Etc PF Chang's CEO deola Adam Minkin you learn faster in crises right like there's no time for nonsense there's no time for baby sitting it's like figure it out like sink or swim you learn through hard things you learn through hard moments my advice to young people I mean no entry-level job is going to be like glamorous right it's you're going to be working hard so we're watching the wage rates closely we're seeing how they're trending I plan to be CEO but sometimes the moment calls and you got to step [Music] up how's it going everybody welcome back to the more we know podcast my name is Mir your host the more we know podcast is the world's mentorship platform the more we know aims to provide you real life mentorship in your pocket wherever you're at whether you're on the way to work whether you're at school whether you're at home whether you're at the gym like our friend deola here you are listening to a Mentor in your pocket the reason we launch the more we know is because a lot of people frankly don't have access to mentors and we want to give back by giving you a mentor in your pocket so we've brought on people like the former CEO of Chipotle the founder of Reebok the mayor of Miami and I know I tell you guys this but this one I wasn't only excited for but I'm nervous for because of the caliber of the person we brought on to meet with these other people and it is deola Adam mukin who is the current CEO of pfchangs I don't even have to give a background on pfchangs you probably have it in the in the city near you they have over over 200 CH restaurants now uh he is not only the CEO but he's he's leading their strategic initiatives ensuring their continued growth and success they're one of the largest upscale dining Asian restaurant brands in the world and deola alongside doing this would you believe it is also a managing partner at Paulson and Co the hedge fund that purchased the chain for 700 million in 2019 there is a ton of background here you probably might have seen him there was a recent Tik Tok that went viral him for his 4 a.m runs we're going to get into all of that but we have the CEO of pfchangs here a brand that was quite frankly struggling a few years back during covid and has since changed so we're going to learn all the secrets about that deola thank you for being our Mentor today it's a pleasure to be here thanks for the introduction well thank you deola let's let's let's kick it right off then obviously you know most people know who PF Changs is the the restaurant most people probably dined at PF Changs I don't know if a lot of people know that you're the CEO I think when you became CEO you actually made some history uh before getting into that you know talk about who who is deola like who were you growing up what did your parents do like remind us back to your child please sure yeah it's um it's it's quite a it's a story that that go that traverses a lot of different places but I was born in in Nigeria um in a town called Le EA which is a small town uh in Southwest Nigeria my dad's a doctor he's a neurologist and my mother's a pharmacist and so I was raised you know as a by a very well educated family and one that placed a lot of priority on education we weren't very well off financially but there was a there was a um ethos within my family that that you could achieve anything via education and and that uh you know the standards are pretty high right very very high achieving family kind of overall um I moved uh to a few different places I lived in in Amsterdam for a few years I lived in uh Zimbabwe uh for two years and then moved to the states when I was nine and I lived in in Illinois and I lived in uh Maryland before I went to to college at Brown in Providence and uh you know so moving around a lot growing up I'd say one thing that that uh became kind of a staple in my life was was Sports and Athletics right I was an athletic kid and uh as a young boy being new in a lot of different places the easiest way to make friends is is sports right so I was always um me and my brothers were always playing whatever sport people played you know we were Illinois it was basketball when I was in Maryland it was football and um so I became an athlete and uh I played football at Brown when I went there uh for college uh and ultimately transition to a career in in finance and investing um in at Goldman Sachs in my first my first job post college so kind of long story all over the place but I'd say you know I my my family is one of you know my dad moved us here to to create uh more opportunities for us it was his decision to move from Nigeria and have these different stops and then ultimately come to the states and um you know we've been lucky to be able to to kind of make that decision worthwhile I love that and you know it's some of my best friends are Nigerian and you know the culture in the Middle East and Nigeria in general is very similar I think I can just you know my parents are doctors so I can already imagine sort of the the the household you grew up in but it's this level of standard that we're held to with hard work and you know we candidly don't really know what hard work is till we see what our parents did when they come from the countries they came from becoming medical doctors My dad became a doctor here and you know it's it's the same sort of process so I'm not surprised with the path you've taken but you know what what about your parents were they pushing you to get into Finance did they want you to go into medicine or were they very open and say hey deola this is you know your you do whatever you want my my parents expected me and my my siblings to to excel right um and you'll relate to this but you know I grew up in this sort of household where if I came back with a report card and I had you know six A's and one B the question was what's what's going on with that b right um there was an expectation that I could be as good as anybody and there's no excuse not to be right it so okay dad would say what's going on with that beat is it is the subject matter too hard I'm like no I can do it okay is the is there a problem with the teacher so what's what's the issue right that was always the the mentality is why aren't you getting an aid that's what you should be getting um so but it was never about F you know my dad's not a business person he's an academic uh my mom's business savvy but she's a pharmacist so it was never like do any particular thing that that the their point of view was whatever you do just be the best right um I remember when I first moved to America and I have been been like N9 or 10 years old but we went to uh get our haircut at the barber shop in Springfield in Illinois and the barber was rolling around in an S-Class Benz right uh because it was the best barber in the city and everybody went there and my dad stopped and said you know look in America even if you're a barber it doesn't matter what you do if you're the best at whatever it is you can you do you can do really well you can buy a b you can live you can live a great life right so the idea was just do do what you're interested in but be the best at it no matter what it is right like that was kind of the the attitude that my family had um and so you know I I developed an interest in finance and investing it's different than what my parents do but they always supported it and always uh you know appreciated the accomplishments as long as you're trying your best and you're working hard and you're trying to excel they were they were generally pretty happy I love that and I think you know I love what your dad said coming here to the land of opportunity being able to you know excel at something and and be paid appropriately for it now I'm trying to put the time line together because correct me if I'm wrong are you 33 or 34 now I'm 34 now okay still which is still just it's it's a shock to hear how young you are so I know the audience listening is like wait what the heck PF Changs 34 but if I'm putting the timeline together you know you when you were 23 24 getting into that Goldman side you know we were coming off not too long from a 2008 crash um as you know medicine is a much more technically stable career than Finance because you know Finance you have a couple of these one-off events and all of a sudden Banks go under whatever happens um when you know was were you a little bit what was the passion from Finance I just want the audience to sort of like visualize it was it just what what really intrigued you about getting to that space well I I decided I wanted to be an investor really in high school so I've been I've been buying stocks since I was 15 or 16 oh um and that would you know when I was still in Maryland so that that would have been 2005 2006 um and for me you know I I I had kind of you know uh service jobs in high school I worked my first job was at a KFC my dad still has my first uh pay stub I made like 50 bucks in like two weeks um and that was when I was you know I can't 15 I think and I worked as as a waiter for during high school but I I you know in school I was a football player but I also had an English teacher that uh had me join the speech and debate team she like insisted it was one of these very uh persuasive teachers that's like you know you should really do this and so I joined speech and debate I ended up being the state champion for debate as a junior um and I gave a speech at the at this competition this four-way rotary speech contest and I won and I won $10,000 for a scholarship and they but they gave it to me as a check right so it's for school but they just gave me the money and it was way more money than I'd ever had at any point yeah you know to that to that point um but I decided I wanted to invest the money right and so I started try trying to figure out what I could do with it right I remember I thought I I didn't know how much 10,000 was I thought I could buy a house I was like let me buy a property let me fix it up I'll sell it you know this is the real estate boom in 056 and everybody's buying real estate and that's all you see on on anywhere you look quickly realized it wasn't enough money to do any of that um but I could buy stocks right so I started reading about uh Stock Investing there's a website I'm sure it's still there called the M Le fool that I used I read a lot about Warren Buffett back then um and so I I I'd go to the gym and there'd be like business people there I'd talk to them ask them questions pick their brains um so I set up a stock portfolio on like E Trade and started buying stocks and you know it's 05 the Market's going up I'm making money I'm like you know starting to think I'm I'm really good at this when anybody could buy any stock at that time and make money uh but that's when my interest and investing came is I just started doing it right and by the time I got to college I was of the mind that I wanted to to be an investor I didn't really know exactly what that meant I didn't know about Investment Banking I'd learn all that but I kind of directionally knew what I wanted to do like business and finance and investing so you know I joined the brown investment Club I got involved I started interning at Goldman when I was a sophomore so I very early on I I took that path now the market crashed in in ' 08 like you said and I was in college at the time so all my investments that I thought were so fantastic all kind of cratered and it was a good lesson actually because it was the very beginning of my career so you get to see a downturn um and it makes you much better investor going through something like that right so by the time I came out of college I'd gone through that I started working at Goldman um and then started pursuing that path uh on Wall Street now did the did the OA crash it's obviously didn't deter you in any way was it because a lot of us went through covid you know my audience all of us are gen Z so our first professional crisis was covid-19 I'm curious from your perspective that professional crisis you had it didn't deter you in any capacity well I was lucky I was in college you know so I didn't get fired um I I think if I was if I just started work and let's say I got laid off from Goldman because they cut a bunch of jobs that you know that might have been different I was protected in a sense because I was a student correct I had an internship a lot of my friends's internships did get cancelled but mine didn't um so I got to be on Wall Street at Goldman in 2008 that summer right I was there watching people kind of freak out and go through it but for me it was like I just felt like I was learning a ton right cuz they didn't have time to babysit everybody was you know it was like survival mode right so if you're there I don't care if you're 19 20 whatever like you're gonna be doing something and they're gonna need so it was almost like getting thrown into the deep end and just uh need you learn you learn faster in crisis right like there's no time for nonsense there's no time for babysitting it's like figure it out like sink or swim right um so I don't know it's something you know I'm I'm an athlete but there's something about that competition in that moment and the adrenaline and it's like we don't know how it's going to go is the world ending is it not but here's what we're going to do and here's the plan and you start executing and you just get into so it didn't deter me at all I thought it was you I don't want to say exciting because you know it harmed a lot of people but um but as a professional in that I mean to be on Wall Street in the middle of a situation like that and and have the front row seat and to be learning I thought it was you know it's it was very helpful for my career to start that way right um by the time I got there full-time everything seemed easy because I just went through I did my summer in the middle of the recession I'm like things are great so no there's no hiccup that's going to freak you out once you've started that way every little hiccups seems small in in comparison right so you know it's uh and Co is similar right like you know Co was was I mean what's going to seem hard once you've gone you've managed a business through covid right you've gone through the worst right now every Problem by comparison is going to seem manageable right so you learn through hard things you learn through hard moments right and you have to take them on they're going to happen regardless so it's just your attitude towards it but if you approach it with the right attitude and say I'm going to learn and get better you're only going to benefit from it yeah and it's interesting to your point because I'm very passionate about investing as well yeah you kind of realize whether you're a CEO or an investor or an executive in any capacity whatever you do there's always something going on if it's not Co it's inflation if it's not inflation there's something if it's if it's a war so there's so many things going on into your point these situations to make us stronger so you you get to Goldman and you know describe your time as uh because we have listeners that are investment bankers too describe your time at Goldman and then when did you realize it was time to transition out of Goldman so I did two summers of Goldman before I started so by the time I joined um I had a pretty good understanding of what to expect right like banking is hard it's a lot of hours it's a lot of you know grunt work you are the most Junior person at the at the firm um there's high expectations especially at Goldman that you know no mistakes like it's supposed to be perfect like you'll make mistakes but it's not it's expected that you you make very few and when you make one you learn from it right it's it's it's very exacting in terms of the um the standards uh but I knew all that when I when I came in uh so for me it was it was just time to work you know I just put in a lot of hours and put in the time to get good now the other thing is I got staffed on like a major deal like right off the bat in my first month I was working on you know Walgreens bought Alliance boots for like 28 billion in 2012 and I worked on that deal and it was like my first deal wow and so I'm sitting there with the CEO of Walgreens the CEO of Alliance boots I was working on a crap hindes deal so I I was in like some bit pretty big transactions like right off the bat again sink or swim right like figure it out right so uh so I was putting in a lot of time but I I thought it was fun again I thought it was exciting like you know you dream of being on Wall Street and you're working at Goldman Sachs working on a$3 billion doll merger like who gets that who gets that sort of experience right so it's it's all attitude with these things right when you're young what else you going to do about work right like you'll have fun you'll have your social life Etc but you're young and you have time like this is what you should be doing and it it'll make you so much better down the line right so my advice to young people I mean no entry level job is going to be like glamorous right it's you're gonna be working hard the company might be glamorous and some other things but um but it but it's it's about hard work when you start and it's about learning and getting better you know how you get better you take on hard projects and you and you you you you conquer them and then you level up right it's like a video game the harder the the harder the project the the more you're going to learn and the more you're going to level up so as a young person take it on you know I said let me give me that deal give me this deal I want to work on that deal you know I was taking everything um and that's the right attitude when you start yeah and I think the the problem we run into now it's a little bit different than a decade ago is now with like social media Instagram specifically and Tik Tok you see you like I have so many listeners that we see and you know I struggle with it too you you almost like on social media you see the makeup right obviously no one's going to post the bad parts of their life they want to post the good parts and like now it's you see these 20-year- olds or 22y olds that might have made x amount of dollars in Dodge Coin or Bitcoin they're living these like fake lives on Jets all the time and it sort of deters us from these entry-level jobs do you have any advice for people in that capacity thinking you know comparing their lives well most of them are lying first of all so I mean don't compare yourself to a lie because that's that's not fair to you absolutely most of them are lying I mean there's going to be some people that have made a ton of money on buying the right coin at the right time Etc but those are few and far between most people are pretending and you have to recognize that it's filters and makeup and and stories right yes um but I understand it's you know it's hard to when you see it and that's seems to be all you see Instagram is very bad for your psychology in general really you shouldn't be on it unless you're doing business really there's no real benefit to being on it unless you're doing business and keeping up with your friends you can do that in other ways it is I think a big contributor to depression and negative thought and negative self opinion for young people I don't have an Instagram and I did when I was and I did when I was younger but but I got rid of it it's hard to do because I know social media is a big part of of people's lives especially young people but if you can get that if you can get rid of it get rid of it like it doesn't it doesn't do much positive for you and it starts you start to compare yourself to lies and you start to think you're an adequate or you're not doing well enough and this kid's doing that and that first of all they most of them are making it up and and even if they aren't it's not natural to be sitting there viewing all the most successful people in the world and and thinking that you you're falling short you know that's just it's a difficult Dynamic to to you know manage mentally right so if you're going to be on it just recognize it for what it is and don't you know don't be too absorbed in it um and if you can just just get rid of it right like I think you'll be you'll be better off psychologically yeah I love I love the rationale there which is just you know so many people think like how do I get better at Instagram how do I get more but it's like sometimes the answer is getting rid of it getting away from it it's so toxic it's not natural do you know what I mean like the humans are you got to understand that there's human biology right we're just wired certain way um and that's been true for thousands of years humans are meant to like have like a group of people that you know and it's your friends and your family and your your tribe quote unquote MH right to be on a platform with millions of people and trying to keep up with thousands of people you know your thousands of followers is unnatural and it's going to stress you out it's going to stress your mind because it's not it's not meant to operate that way and so if people use it but you have to be careful or else you'll get lost in it you'll start you then you'll start trying to look successful versus become successful you know what the difference is trying to look successful is is is putting the right photos and the right caption and pretending the only way to actually become successful is to put in hard work that's the only way right is to is to it's like sports you know the way you get better is you practice you know the way you build endurance is you go run Hills the way you become a better receiver is you run a 100 routes right and that's the way you get better but that's not glamorous of course now you can pretend that's only going to get you so far and then you're gonna get to a point where you just don't have what it takes because you never developed it because you were pretending the whole time so work on work on really being better you can be better anything can be improved you don't like how you speak you can improve that you don't like how you think you can improve that you don't like whatever you can get better in all these different categories just like a video game but you got to put in the work that's the only way right yeah even even the kids that make money off Bitcoin I almost feel bad for them in a way because they they never developed life skills yes right so maybe they made some money but they don't have any character they haven't developed how to the work ethic they don't know how to deal with adversity cuz they haven't done it you know they bought some coin and made a bunch of money and and they're going to be they might be weak mentally in from a character standpoint forever because they never need to develop it right so you should look at it as a blessing you get to work hard and become a better person you get to become that guy or that girl right like you get to do that so so embrace it yeah and I can yeah and I can tell your No Nonsense approach to hard work and discipline you're not just saying it because look at what it's taken you to in your career and you know so I I I think the audience that's a valuable lesson that I hope they rewind in es you once you've been through it it's like my runs in the morning you know what there's not not that's the hardest part of my day honestly is getting up at 4 and going on these runs so what what else is the rest of the day becomes easy it's all relative so if you go through hard work to become great Co happens okay you've been through you're psychologically tougher you're more disciplined you're more focused you can manage it if you're weak mentally because you've just been pretending the whole time it's gonna it's going to crush you you can't handle it because you're just not that person right so it's the intrinsic it's like actually becoming better and becoming great you can do it but you have to work like there's no other way this doesn't grow on trees and it doesn't get handed to you there's no there's no pretending at some level you have to actually become that person right and for for people to get mentally stronger other than social media do you are there anything else you recommend because for your job by the way as cool as it sounds to be CEO there's a lot of stress of you know a company on your shoulders people's salaries people's like livelihoods right in some it's like abolutely so much stress there absolutely and and my advice is it's it's it's Conquest that makes you stronger it's you know what makes you stronger mentally is is looking at something looking at a mountain that you didn't think you can climb and then climbing it and then being like I did that and then the next time something comes that you're not sure you can do you'll have more confidence and confidence confidence and competence are related i e believing you can and actually doing something once you do things that are hard you'll believe you can once you believe you can you'll do things that are hard you know what I'm saying those are interl and so my advice is start just find a challenge I like physical challenges because you can literally say I'm gonna run five miles I've never run five miles but I'm gon to do it boom done right or I'm gonna go on this hike it looks scary but I'm gonna do it like that's very easy way to do it it's just or bike riding whatever pick something um and just say or join a gym join a boxing whatever and say I'm going to do this it seems hard I'm scared of it but I'm going to go do it and then you conquer it and then your mind gets used to uh conquering challenges right so and then from a career perspective take things on there too right um you know if you have a job and there's an opportunity to to join a team that's gonna have to work hard but could do something special maybe go for it right so it's it's it's it's the boring answer because it's just it's just what it takes is is taking on challenges and and working right um but you got to build a discipline and you know once you build the discipline it becomes easy the first time's hard yeah I remember the first time I Jo I went to when I when I I never played football until I got to Maryland and I joined the football team and it was like a state champion uh you know caliber team and they worked right and my freshman year I had to go do two a days and I almost died you know I was like I was like you know a freshman I was like I was about to quit you know T Days running hills like working all day but by the time I was a sophomore junor it was easy oh two days like we we've done it a few times and it was the same workout but it felt easier right because uh because you you've gone through it right so so the only the only remedy is experience you just have to pick yourself up wake up one day and say I'm gonna get it done and just and just do that one 1,00% and you know you and I were just speaking offline about it I've found that my self-confidence has gone up as I've kept the promises to myself so that when I told myself hey I'm going to lose 50 pounds and I go out and execute on it my self-confidence goes up because Absolut keeping the promises you keep to yourself now may when you get a business challenge you say I'm going to deal with that now you believe yourself right right cuz your self-confidence is up you can't lie to yourself it's you can lie to it's hard to lie to your mental like your subconscious you know what I'm saying you either are or you aren't so when you now you go run you've lost the weight you're feeling good now the challenge comes in your business life you say I'm G to conquer it this is what I'm going to do you believe yourself and then you'll go get it done whereas if you're a person that says things and never does it you won't even believe yourself right so any challenge will crush you yeah no I and I can't wait now to get into your running but but before we get into running yeah how did you how did you end up becoming the CEO of pfchangs yeah so it started as an investment right so I led the deal to to buy pfchangs on behalf of my uh employer pson and Company this is after you left Goldman this so after I left Goldman I worked at a private Equity Firm called cpg capital for two years then I worked then I went to business school I went to Harvard and then I worked for a hedge fund investor named John Paulson who's one of the great investors of our time like a very famous investor so he has a hedge fund called Paulson and Company um so I went to go work there and while I was there I did a bunch of different things but one thing I did was uh this deal right so PF Changs was up for sale this is like 2018 I and you know I had some friends in that were selling the company right that I worked with at Goldman so they they gave me the look and said you know Pam J is up for sale and I more or less looked at it and thought it was a good investment so I pitched it to my boss I pitched it to John Paulson and said you know we should buy this and here's why and here's the plan and here's the feces and here's the numbers and uh and we walk through through it and John agreed um so I then executed the deal I led the deal to buy it so for me it was an investment I thought it was a good opportunity I thought it was a good business I thought it was a good brand with a lot of potential a lot of things weren't being done well but we we felt like we could fix these things right like the delivery business and some other things right so um yeah I got involved as an investor I joined the board when we closed the deal um and uh then I start now the thing is I was responsible for it right I I convinced people at pson to to buy it so it's my deal and you know I'm sitting in New York and there were a lot of things we wanted to do at the company right we wanted to remodel all the restaurants we wanted to uh build this delivery uh platform CH build an app build a website you change to go like there's a lot of strategic changes we didn't buy it just to run it the way it' been run right we bought it to change a lot of things and so when you're transforming a company like that it's hard to do from New York when you're calling people and and it's easier to get things done when you're here physically right if you if I'm calling from New York people can kind of BS and give you the runaround and you know if I'm here it's it's things get done right so so I just started coming every week just to push things forward right so i' come out I'd fly out every Monday I'd fly back every Thursday um and then the CEO at the time that we we brought in anako said you know if if you're gonna be here every week you need a title so they gave me a title they made me Chief strategy officer um so you working at two firms at the time yeah I was working at two firms I was still working at at Paulson but but I this was a big deal John wrote a big check to to buy the company um and I just wanted to make sure it was successful so I I was just out here just trying to make sure things were getting done right and the CEO we brought in appreciated that because he didn't necessarily want to deal with all this transformational work right like he was a nuts and bolts operator you know 70 plus years old we brought him out of retirement but he knew how to run restaurants really well that's what he did now the app the website the you know the remodels he was less interested in that it was more interested in in the nuts and bolts operation so I said heyy let me come in I'll be your man to get things done on the other stuff that you don't want to deal with we actually live together he traveled from Dallas every week and I travel from New York every week and we got an apartment together we're just running the company together for a year wow and so then he eventually stepped during covid you know like I said he's 73 years old was traveling every week So Co happened he wasn't going to be traveling anymore decided to step back uh and so we didn't have a CEO and then uh you know Paulson asked me to step in right he's like you're there every week you know what's going on it's your deal go go deal with it go fix it right like it was a crazy time because during Co all the restaurants were closed so it wasn't even clear how the business was going to perform or if we were going to be able to to get through the situation but but again it was my deal and I I felt responsible for for the outcome so I came out stepped in a CEO while all the restaurants were closed had to get through the most difficult time in the restaurant industry that I'm aware of and uh you know we got through it but not without not without some scars and not without some hard work right like it was it was a crisis like like you like you know so and you know a couple key takeaways there is you sort of stayed ready like when this deal happened you never a lot of times genz we visualize like where we want to be but I love that you said that because you just showed us that it's not like you you looked at the deal and said hey I'm going to be CEO here you saw an opportunity you were bullish on the thesis and then when the when the time arrives you didn't you didn't know covid-19 was gonna happen none of us did frankly so like but the the key is once it did present itself to you you were ready how did you build trust with Paulson for him to say hey obviously this is your deal outside of just presenting it to take on CEO because a lot of us might be figuring out how we build trust with our managers now we're investors if we're raising capital or whatever it might be how did he know that it's like time for you to go do that well the the the point you made is a good one right which is I didn't plan to be CEO but sometimes the moment calls and you got to step up and it might not be exactly what you planned but but the you know sometimes the moment chooses you not the other way around right so you got to be ready and when the moment comes make you know you get these opportunities in life and you got to take them right um You got to make the most of them uh and and each step leads to the next step right like if you do if you if you s if a moment comes and you succeed they'll create other moments right so it's important to recognize them and step up and get the job done when when these moments do occur right like I was when I needed to step in a CEO I came and it was 100% of what I was doing right like 100% of my focus % of my time we're going to get through this and you know we did now in terms of uh building trust with John I I'll say that that happened over time there's no one thing but it was consistency right I first interned with John in 2016 right and when I was at Harvard and my first summer I was pitching ideas getting in front of them uh being uh you know thoughtful about the book and about our investments and so from the very beginning you show who you are and what you're capable of and how you think um and then you remain consistent you know I worked for John for years where I had a bunch of different things I was covering for him but he knew he could trust me on every one of those right like not that you're always gonna be right but you're G to be High character you're G to be a sound thinker you're G to be uh you know thoughtful about the business you're gonna be uh somebody you can trust to manage things right and and that happens over time so by the time this deal came across I'd done you know hundred things with John right and you know he'd put me on different boards I'd manage those well he you know so it's it's it's incremental and so when this deal came across the trust is already there and then we just look at the you know we're both very object John's a very objective person as am I right like so is it a good investment or not um and then it just becomes actually evaluating the opportunity but that trust is already there right and he trusts my judgment as well right so building trust takes time but losing it is quick right so you just got to stay you got to stay um consistent right and M I'll say I I'll throw this in there too one good way to remain consistent and to build trust is to control your master your emotions be in control of your emotions because a lot of these jobs are stressful if if I'm working for John and stress freaks me out he's gonna he's gonna be questioning whether he can trust me or not right because things are gonna get stressful he knows that so I'd shown him over time as well that I can manage stress well that I I've there's never been a moment where anything got to me in a way where he had to question whether he could trust me to manage things right I'm I'm steady I'm consistent I'm objective I'm honest right like if you you're going to make mistakes but be like okay I thought this it didn't work out that way it's working out like this um and you you can look at yourself and criticize yourself and say like okay I didn't get that right but here's the plan here's what I'd suggest as a plan going forward right so self-accountability is key for people to trust you as well and and I think that's that managing emotion thing I didn't realize how critical that was but to be able to manage your emotion not just in because things don't stay good forever and things on the contrary don't stay bad forever it's going to things are going to happen you know you just got to stay you can't take it to like the job is serious but you can't beat yourself you can't take it too seriously on yourself right you have to stay objective you make the best decisions you can you do the best you can if if you are trying the best you can then you can honestly say okay that didn't go well but here's why I thought it was a good idea and you can sit there with your boss and have that conversation because you were you made a good you made the best decision you could in the moment right and you can say listen like this here's all the information I had here's what I thought would happen here's what I missed and here's what actually happened and so here's where we are now and I think there's a good plan going forward you can have that dialogue and turn getting something wrong into a positive right and maybe come up with a better plan going forward so but if if something goes wrong and you're freaking out and you're lying and you're saying oh it wasn't my fault or you know they it was somebody else's fault and that's when you'll destroy trust right it's not the mistake it's how you react to it that matters right um it can be the same mistake but two people react differently one builds trust one loses it it's it's that simple right so but again you can't fake these things you know how you build emotional control is you go through hard things for a long time is you put yourself in situations that are hard and then you actually become better at it you actually become better at it you're not pretending right and then when when something goes wrong you can handle it right and on that on that topic deol of hard things you know obviously you guys are a business now that does over a billion or so in Revenue that's great that's awesome but hits and you know at some point I remember seeing articles where the business was effectively struggling and not just PF Changs by the way everything cheesecake Factor everywhere you looked it looked like rest at some point I remember seeing news on CNBC and everywhere that restaurants might would you believe they were saying restaurants may never come back like just like people might not ever go back into restaurants and so I'm curious for you I just I just literally had the founder of the bokeh group and if you've been in Chicago you know all the bokeh restaurants here and you know that was the same fear that he had how did you I know you know how to manage stress very well but what was your game plan Co hits what was your action as CEO on day one to say hey here's the steps we're going to take here's how we're going to turn this thing around despite a crisis going on I mean it wasn't easy let me just say that right the restaurants were all closed and you know the restaurant business has a high fixed cost component if you're not making any money and you got rents and labor and all these other costs like it's not a good Financial picture so you know it was it was nerve-wracking right now you have to number one solve for survival in a situation like that right so iMed what are the immediate things we can do to help ourselves we got to do more delivery right because that's all you can do right now so how do we maximize our delivery sales how do we maximize takeout how do you make it easier for people to come order from you how do you get the word out how do you market so these are like tactical things immediately to manage the situation how do you bring your expenses down are there things we can pull back on do we need to spend on that right like you got to manage the p&l to manage your cash flow to to survive as as you know first and foremost and then in addition to that you want to uh instill some calm and confidence into the organization right people panicking and thinking that the world's going to end is not is not ideal right so you need to um speak to the organization in a way that lays out a believable plan so you need to come up with a plan right but once you have a plan you need to communicate it right and say we're going to make it and here's how and here's the plan and we're gonna Drive incremental Revenue this way we're going to uh manage our expenses that way we're going to uh make these certain Investments we're going to pull back here and communicate people are smart you know they want they want to hear what's going on and they know the business right there people are Savvy and they know and then they can tell when when it's Panic or when there's a calm leader like a leader that's got a plan right so come up with a plan then you got to communicate it in a way that that um instills confidence and then you got to execute right and then that's you and the team putting in the putting in the hours right going through and making sure like okay we like the plan people are bought in let's go get this done right um now you can really rally an organization in a moment of Crisis right like it's back against the wall sort of thing right think think about you know I always use Sports analogies but fourth quarter games on the line people are going to be focused right um and so you can rally the organization in a moment of Crisis get everybody on the same page uh and then and then go go get it done right I remember you know when I when I was seeing the changes you guys were making at pfchangs was there was there one specific thing that you looked at and said hey this really helped transform us to get us to the strong position right today was it was it the delivery decision or was it just a combination of things you know we prioritized delivery from the moment we bought the business okay in 2018 we thought that was a huge opportunity I mean it's it's Asian food it's Chinese food right it's it's it's not uh you're not teaching anybody any new behaviors that's a normal uh American Consumer behavior is to order Chinese right and order a delivery and order a takeout we the the company just didn't do it well there was no app there was no website the infrastructure wasn't there so we saw an opportunity if you could build a system to make it easy for people and Market it effectively you could build a huge business on the delivery side that was part of the thesis when I pitched it to John in 2018 now so we got working on that in 2019 as soon as we bought the company so the timing is a bit lucky but we did have the foresight to focus on delivery even before Co just because we thought it was an important business that was going to grow I mean I lived in New York I was a consumer of Uber Eats and door Dash right like I was ordering uh delivery all the time um and I knew that was a growing customer behavior and there were some companies that had figured it out like Domino's and chipotle Etc had figured out delivery and built great businesses this company just hadn't done it but the food was perfect for it and the brand was strong and you could so we saw an opportunity where other people might have missed it right the previous owners obviously weren't focused on it so by the time Co had we built that platform and that saved the company right because uh it's hard to you know they shut restaurants down end of March it's hard to say in April we're going to start doing delivery if you don't have an app you don't have a website you don't have any of the things you need right so we'd already done all that um so we could make the transition and then uh and then I'll say the other important thing is we stayed focused on the long-term strategy even in the middle of the chaos right so we solved kind of the near-term things we needed to do to survive but at the same time we kept the fiveyear plan in mind right like what are the things we want to achieve in the long term what investments do we still want to make and John Paulson was incredibly supportive right like it wouldn't have been possible without him um but he gave us what we needed to keep making Investments to keep remodeling restaurants to keep building a company that was GNA be great for the long term right and and that that proved to be key I love that and it definitely proved to be key it's congratulations on all the success you guys have had now I'm curious what when you think of thesis and setting a strategy for 3 5 10 years how flexible are you in your thesis itself like at what point do you go well I I deola I thought this is the res answer but the Market's telling us this it's a balance you don't want to be in transigent but you don't want to be changing your strategy every quarter either right now strategy you got to remember also is very high level there's difference between strategy and tactics you shouldn't be changing your strategy very much right it's our strategy is five bullet points that I showed up with in 2019 when I took over or 2020 and it hasn't changed the bullet points but these are the high level things we're trying to achieve like that's still the same that shouldn't be changing quarter to quarter year to year your tactics might change right so how are we gonna what are the specific things we're working on to drive these strategies right so we OPD is one strategy of ours now you might say you know we were going to do you know delivery ourselves now we're going to do more with the third parties those are tactics right and that stuff can change you got to be flexible and look at the data and understand what's working what's not but I if you have a sound strategy shouldn't change very much and if it does it should be a good reason you should communicate it well uh make sure everybody's clear that that's what's happening right but you can't you got to have a North star as a company you got to know who you are you got to know what you're trying to achieve and that's what the strategy is um and then around that play around with tactics try different things test things figure out what works what's the best way to achieve our strategy right yeah and and talking about strategy one thing I love to talk with CEOs about is culture I know you're a big sports fan like myself and I I look at the culture of a team like the Miami Heat and how they like it doesn't matter who's playing however minutes they just want to they want to win they don't care about that and even you know us I went to lyola Chicago and I was the head manager for the basketball team at the time when we went to the final four and the big thing for us was the culture thing piece again like our coach Moser was big on culture so for you I'm super curious how you think about culture at pfjs and what is the culture you know I'd say that for me I'm number one I'm a very I want transparency with I trust people I trust that people are smart and I trust that people are aware I don't think it behooves you to lie to an organization a lot of people come and they OB obate things they hide things and they try to give a certain message I'd say the number one thing we've done well is be transparent trust people with information uh communicate well answer questions like I'll sit in the town hall every quarter with the company and discuss what's going on in Pretty in pretty good detail so I think there's a culture of transparency at the organization now which is good right because people know what's going on and um they feel empowered right with information the other thing I'll say is uh there's a culture of we don't we don't we everybody here works well together and is trying to solve the same things and all benefit from the same from the same things there's like a togetherness right you can you have organizations where each department kind of works on its own right and there's they don't talk much and but that's not my style and I think again because I have a team background right like so I'm in my Coo's office I'm in my cmo's office I expect them to be in each other's office they talk to this person talk to that person um so there's a collaborative culture but then also we set it so that everybody does well when the company does well right so the better the company does the more we can invest in our people right so we've done all types of things from we introduced PTO paay time off for the hourly employees which they didn't have before benefits wow bonuses right tied to company performance so everybody knows that if the business does well they'll do well you're in it together and there's you know I only have one metric I track IA which is bottom line profitability and everybody gets paid on that from a bonus perspective wow because there was there were a bunch of different metrics for different groups and all these different things and then everybody's swimming different directions so one thing I like to do is one metric that encompasses everything bottomline profitability and everybody is compensated on that right so everybody's watching the same thing and everybody cares about the same thing and they know if they're helping another department it helps them too right like there's this we're all in it together mentality so I think Clarity of communication and transparency is key and then finding a way to bring an organization together so you're suing the same direction everybody knows what the plan is everybody knows what the strategy is everybody does well if the company does well um and you'll have you'll have the elements for a successful culture within the organization yeah and I de I think even before speaking to you just following you over the last couple years even on LinkedIn your your transparency is something key like you're transparent about your schedule about what you're doing so this inclusivity of saying hey whether I'm an hourly worker whether I'm a manager whether I'm the CMO we're all getting paid by that bottom line ebo which is what matters the most that's important to those employees yeah well they they understand what to what they're solving for do you know what I mean and that you again people are smart if you give people a benchmark and a high bar but they'll be taken care of if they achieve it people are going to work harder than if they don't know what they're chasing they don't know what the metric is if they do even if they get it they're not going to get anything from it personally then people aren't going to care it's how do you get people to care basically right and so it's it's it's it's important you can't do this by yourself this is not a this is not a business is not a oneman show right like you need people to care and you need to be generous with people who do well for you right like people need to like I want people to make money it makes me makes me happy if you know because they get paid on the performance of the company so if they're making money the company's doing well everybody's good you know so it's you can't it's um it seems It's common sense but you'll find a lot of people are greedy or they're um opaque they don't want to communicate they don't trust the employees and I think that's a mistake hire great people first of all right that's number one get great people in your organization so recruiting is key and then once you get them there give them information trust them Empower them uh align them to the business and let them run right and you'll see they'll they'll do incredible things right because they want to they understand what they're trying to do and and they get they get you know a benefit from it as well right yeah and on that on that concept of recruiting the CEO title is amazing but there's also tough parts that come with the job you know the hiring is one thing and there's also the unfortunate reality of firing too I I speak to a lot of CEOs about that you know how do you think when you think about hiring and firing what can you share uh with the audience about like how how a CEO from that management perspective looks at hiring someone versus firing someone hiring is the most important thing you can do as an organization like bar nut getting the right people in here number one so you want to build good processes we had good processes when I took over so it's not something we had to start over with we refined it we tweaked it but you want to have a clear idea about the type of person that does well in your organization because every company's a little different cultures are a little different so so what are you looking for right um and then go find those people and recruit them pay them fairly pay you know take care of them right like firing is is hard it's the hardest part of the job right firing people's the hardest part of the job and it's unpleasant always right there's there's not a even if it's even if it's been a long time coming or if it's the right decision it's still going to be a difficult conversation part of part of being a leader is having the tough conversations the best thing you can do is be honest treat people with respect and say you know give them the reason right and and handle it like that if it's handled well it can be benefit for everybody because they hopefully find an organization that that fits them better and you can find a person that fits your organization better but it's still it's still it's still a difficult conversation that needs to be handled delicately because you're dealing with people's lives and you can't be callous about it right so there's a decision and there's how you deal with it which both you got to get both right now if somebody if you need to fire somebody you need to fire somebody like there's you know you can't not do it because you're scared of having a conversation but when you have that convo make make it you know just be thoughtful about it and you know try to be kind right like it's a hard it's a hard thing you know and uh and give them honest feedback so they can be better in the future right and that's that's the best thing you can do and that's great advice because we tend to have this negative connotation with it but sometimes you're actually doing the person the benefit to end up in a better Organization for them 100% if they accept it well they can be better so okay they got fired why if people get fired it happens right okay why what did I do what can I be better at like they can take it and internalize it and hopefully improve and also maybe maybe it's just not a fit and then they can find a better fit right based on uh you know you you kind of having that conversation with them so there can be positives it's never going to be an easy or fun conversation but it can work out well for both sides if if handled well on both sides right right and on on that point I can just sense you're the type of person that doesn't take stuff personal unfortunately my generation we take a lot of things personal and deola I'll be honest with you I take things personal sometimes too right sure what what's your advice for people to get better at taking things personally cuz a lot of times it's not personal it's business or relationship whatever it is you need to you're going to take things personal 100% right like that's that's human that's natural so there's two things first of all with failures and setbacks and like misses right like you went for something you missed it in those my advice in those situations is you're allowed to feel bad for 24 hours and then then get over it right so you you miss something you got something you didn't get something you wanted feel bad for you're going to feel bad for a minute give yourself a day right but then after that the the only thing you should be thinking about is what what can I do better like what why didn't I get it did I give it everything I had was is there a mistake is there something I should improve just use that to be better and if you do that you'll improve over time because you learn more probably from the things you don't get and the things you do get right you you failing can be the best motivator to improve it doesn't mean you're not going to feel bad I get it right like everybody's human so you don't get something you really wanted you're going to feel bad give yourself a day and then be back in there like what can I do better now in terms of like uh taking things personally like feedback and things like that critiques it's similar right try to remove yourself almost like you want to disassociate yourself from from yourself right like look at yourself objectively it's hard I know but listen nobody's perfect nobody's perfect nobody's perfect and so you sit there and you say okay this is what they're saying this is what the feedback is I'm not going to get mad about it I'm going to try to assess whether there's something in it or not right most of the time there is people aren't just saying things to make you feel bad right so most of the time there's some validity to it and you got to figure out what you believe and what you don't right but you can only do that if you're objective right and say okay you know they said it's almost like you want to look at yourself from the third person and say is that true is there some truth to that because that you can also improve based on those sort of things right so it's it's emotional Mastery it's emotional control it's the most important thing you can learn right because no listen nobody's dying this is not nothing's that serious it's you're trying to be the best person you can be you're trying to make a mark in the world you're trying to achieve so the best way to do that is to not take things personally and be objective about things nobody's listen if this was a thousand years ago people die if they they made a mistake right that's not the case anymore you're you're pretty safe right um so just be better and try to be try to take everything as an opportunity to improve and your life will be better as a result gosh I got to say deolo out of all the interviews you have done this has been the most emot emtional type Master Class like learning how to master those emotions that is that is such a gem I I took away so much like I just can't wait for the audience to see this because wow em emotions run everything emotions run markets right you you buy a stock that you like a year later it's down 60% and now you're saying was it a good investment I don't know yeah well the best the best investors the ones that control their emotions too right you talked to Buffett I got to me Buffett and I mean he's could be more objective right like he's not John Paulson my boss right like could be more objective right um and so you will be everybody's going to have emotions I'm not saying become a machine or a robot you're going to have emotions but you need to understand what you're feeling and as long as your emotions don't dictate your actions directly you're okay yeah right you'll feel what you feel but create a gap where you can say okay I felt this I understand that but what do I actually need to do right right and then act based on logic yeah feel and then you know internalize it that's fine feelings kind of give you information right like you feel bad and you don't want to feel bad anymore okay like how can I actually get better but if you feel bad and you quit or if you feel bad and you freak out or you start yelling at people then that's then the action is is not a not a constructive one right yeah yeah I I love that that's that's a master class right there on emotion now as we transition into the the conclusion here I know that you know speaking of schedules because you're on schedule we appreciate your time here over the last hour you went viral specifically I saw it over the last month for your 4 AM runs number one I want to ask you about your 4 AM runs and what time you go to bed but two can you after answering that can you also just talk about your schedule like what does your actual full day look like yeah so the reason I I do it is because I started building up my runs and they're just long now like I'll do I'll run for like an hour 20 minutes when I do when I do like an Eight Mile and it it varies dayto day some days I'll do Sprints some days I'll do different things but my long runs will be like an hour 20 minutes so I need the time and then I I'm getting old man I got to stretch before I got to stretch after you know back before when I was young I just get out there and run but but you know can't do can't quite do that anymore so very young man yeah so I get um so so I just I like the time and I don't like to be rushed and so that's why I started getting up earlier and earlier until I hit this 4 am but it's good it's beautiful man I'm out there the sun's Rising every day you wake up at 4 yeah every day I'm up at 4 and I do my stretches I'm out on the road by 4:30 or I'm doing sprints or something else um during the week I mean weekends I get more time and it's amazing because you're the only one I'm the only one out there right and by the time the sun's coming up people start moving around I'm already like an hour into a workout right so I like it you know but I'll say this I played Sports my whole life so I'm used to having to get up early for something or the other right like when I played football at Brown you're up at five to do workouts like that was so I've already kind of developed the ability to do that but if you if you struggle my advice to you is this right put your phone not next to your bed put it somewhere else in your room you have to get up to go turn it off set the alarm and when you when it goes off just go make yourself a cup of coffee that's all you got to do the reason people don't can get up is because it seems like an insurmountable task like I got to go run five miles no just go get a cup of coffee and then by the time you get the cup of coffee you'll be awake then you go do the thing you said you're going to do right you break it into steps right there David Goin says this but can you take one more step right like when you feel like you can't do something so set the alarm go turn it off go just get yourself a cup of coffee and then just take the one one more step right and you'll be before you know you'll be out there it's not hard anybody can do it it's not hard right like you don't have to You'll build up the how much you run and blah blah blah you'll work you'll figure out what works for you but it's just getting up that's the thing if you get up and you start the day it doesn't have to be four and then I've built this up but put say your alarm for five right do it tomorrow set it for five put the put the phone on a table not next to your bed so you got to physically get up when it goes off make coffee and tell me if you can't go get a workout in I bet you I bet you can yeah that's that's that's amazing I'm I'm going to try that actually tonight to see if I can get up a little bit earlier not four I can't I can't get to four yet man that's a different level pick a time man pick a time just just just set a schedule it's it's not about the I I I start my day early because I I try to do a lot in the morning and now you know but but whatever it is just set set the time and stick to it it's more about telling yourself the truth like we talked about like starting to believe in yourself right and having discipline and knowing that if you say you're going to do something you're actually going to do it that that's what matters the details play around with the details the time the workout whatever just get into some routine it'll be a benefit for you I love that and so you you you're out on the field you're running by 4:30 what does the rest of your day look like schedule wise uh so you know depending what I do from a workout I'm done maybe by six right and um I'm trying to be in the office between 7:00 and 7:30 uh and maybe I'll work from my home office for a bit and come in at 8 some variation on that and then my day is just it's usually just full of meetings right so meetings with the internal team meetings with my department heads meetings with investors debt holders Partners International partners and then in so every day is different but there'll be some sequence of meetings that I have during the day and then in my gaps I just try to keep things moving right so I'll I'll get a bunch of emails during the day and try to prioritize and you know if there's something I can answer quickly the if you if you have a bunch of things to do some things are quick some things are going to take a long time some things are really important some things are less important the quick important do those fast right if you can get something in answer in five minutes and it's important that's the stuff you want to do first and then depending how much time I have you try to prioritize the important things that are going to take longer right if you get like an hour window you work on something right so it's basically meetings and in between I'm just trying to keep the ball moving in different parts of the company right because a lot of things come to me for approve approval or for opinion before a decision can get made and so you don't you just don't want to be the hold up do you right like if people are ready to go then I try to I try to get to that stuff quickly and how do you find time for like your social life too well you know it's Uh something's got to give like I'm not out during the week or anything like that you know because it's hard to do everything right I've got a great group of friends they they know they know they know me you know I'm out here trying to trying to do things um so you know not I'm not like out on a Wednesday night or Tuesday night or anything like that but I've got great friends I catch up with them usually on the weekends and uh yeah it's a balance but you can't do everything you can do anything in life but you can't like try to do this huge uh professional achievement at the same time go out every night at the same time you know travel all the time like you gotta prioritize right and yeah you know people tell you you can do everything that's not true you can do anything but you it's hard to do everything right you got to pick your pick what you what you care about yeah and I get the sense that that discipline and running just goes relats through the rest of your day the same way 100% Can you can you take one more step that's it because when hard things come just break it down right and that's what you do in the morning when you start this routine is you can take that one more step and then it becomes easy right because there's nothing you can't do that you're that's on your list it's just things you don't feel like or you don't want to and but once you get to the mentality of like I know I don't feel like it but can I just do one little thing then it becomes it becomes a lot easier is there anything that keeps you up at night or for you you sleep just fine you know you're very chilled in general I'm pretty chilled but I'd say that I'd say that um the macro the stuff that you can't control is the most concerning right like when you run a business that's a consumer discretionary business and the macro picture is difficult that concerns you right like and you can't control you just got to watch the numbers and kind of see what's going on so as organizationally I try to control we can control and just be as aware as we can of the things we can't control but but of course you know you're going to be what's the FED going to do what's going to happen here what's what's the consumer picture going to look like you know that that stuff is is out there but but overall you know sleep fine I got to get up early yeah you got to yeah I know we're running out of time here deola thanks for going past the hot take for you real quick that I posted on social media about us doing the interview one thing I thought everyone was going to ask how did he build the business how did we do this but one question that came up said I'm super curious if he walked into pfjs what is deola ordering like what's your go-to order let's go um I usually get the cbass okay which is topnotch if you if you're in pf chanks try the SE bass also the wagu steak which we came out with last holidays is absolutely fire so those are my two go-to um and uh you can't go wrong with either one and I feel like with those you know even for me with my weight loss journey I can balance it out where it's not too many carbs Still Still You Can Eat Health you can make the SE bass work get get a nice Caesar salad or Asian mandarin salad you can make it work with our menu for sure yeah oh absolutely and this so last question for you you I ask every guest this you're you're everyone a lot of college kids just graduated it's June now everyone's graduating yeah what's uh what's deola you know 30 to 60 second commencement speech to the college grads today obviously you just gave us an hour commencement speech with the you dropped but what's your what's your minute speech there well you kids today face unique challenges right you mentioned social media that's that's huge and it's true and it's much harder than when I was their age my my advice to young people is to find a way to create more isolation for themselves so they can really think and understand themselves because it's hard to do when there's all the noise of social media and all your friends are doing this and that and this and that like you don't even know who you are at some point because you get lost in all the noise so find a way to create mental space to think for yourself and not be trying to live up to anything or like what do you want out of life what are you trying to achieve what do you care about who are you right and it's not because that guy posted this on Instagram you think you need to go do XY Z you need you need some isolation you need some time to think right and you got to find a way to create that I say delete social media I know most people won't do that but but uh but if even if you keep it just understand it for what it is and create create isolated time to think oh absolutely well well I love that that is deola Adam malukan who is the current CEO of pfchangs also a partner at a famous fund here and we just had him be our Mentor today it's been an absolute honor and pleasure and thank you for giving us a master class and I'm going to go try a run tomorrow so I'm holding I got to do that get out there man I love it got to do that guys if you're listening in go check out pfchangs go have a bite there it's an amazing incredible culture whether you're sitting there or to the point that we just learned here even delivering it they do a very good job with delivery absolutely absolutely thanks for having me m I enjoyed that you take care thank [Music] you