[Music] welcome to audit the audit where we sort out the who and what and the right and wrong of police interactions this episode covers the right to film The First Amendment and obstruction and is brought To Us by Dr Shawn Barry's Channel be sure to check out the description below and give them the credit that they deserve on July 24th 2021 Deputy Neil rachi of the Maran County Sheriff's Office was getting gas in dun Ellen Florida when a witness informed him of a motor vehicle accident that had just occurred resulting in a verbal altercation between the parties after Deputy rachi responded to the scene to assist officer DEA of the Dunellen Police Department 59-year-old George Nathanson who has a disability limiting his ability to communicate verbally arrived and began to film the officers in the course of their duties the encounter was captured on Deputy racei's body camera here's this guy yes sir's this yes sir hey I appreciate it but we're we're right now yep NOP sir I'm going to ask you to leave I'm going to ask nope sir I'm going to ask you to leave right now you're in the middle of our investigation I'm going to ask you to leave you're you're you're make you're making this a lot harder than it has to be you need to get off sir right now this is our investigation you're you're in our investigation have a nice day you can stand over the sidewalk over there [Music] he's the one he's the one that's trying to start the YouTube channel that's fine make some action so we can get out of here I'm gonna go ahead and put this guy in handcuffs if he's not going to get off our scene all right I'm gonna get this guy off Hey sir listen to me I'm asking you to please get off our scene take your stuff you can get off our scene or I'm going to put you in handcuffs I'm going to take you to jail all right you need to go okay thank you right now we're not going to have this conversation you want to talk to me after we're done with our investigation you can but don't interfere with what we're doing over here thank you do not interfere with what we're doing over here hey that guy he's trying is he leaving no If he if he interferes one more time he's going to go to jail he's the boy you know you familiar with that guy I've I think I've heard it before he's he tries to walks up the cars and fil and this a whole cluster it's longer than it [Music] needs sir do not step back over here again I'm telling you if you come back in our vicinity I will take you to jail step back step back no go ahead no no go ahead put your phone down6 I'll get it 6234 man show me white mail T you need routine I asked you to stay off our scene no you're not staying off our scene you're interacting and I asked you to stay back Deputy rosace places Mr Nathanson in handcuffs and secures him in the back of the police vehicle claiming that Mr Nathanson was not quote unquote staying off the scene the 11th circuit which includes Florida has long recog iiz that the first amendment protects the right to film the police in public in the 2000 case of Smith versus city of [ __ ] the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals held that citizens have now quoting a First Amendment right subject to reasonable time Manner and place restrictions to photograph or videotape police conduct based on the fact that now quoting again the first amendment protects the right to gather information about what public officials do on public property and specifically a right to record matters of public interest as we have discussed before here on ATA the right to film the police and public is not unlimited and filming can be subject to reasonable time place and manner restrictions however as the First Circuit Court of Appeals explained in the 2011 case of Glick versus kif when an individual is in a so-called traditional public space such as a park in the Glick case or the public sidewalk that Mr Nathanson filmed from now quoting the rights of the state to limit the exercise of First Amendment activity are sharply circumscribed therefore the court went on to hold that an individual's quote peaceful recording of an arrest does not interfere with the police officers' performance of their duties is not reasonably subject to limitation at least when the individual non-disruptively films from a so-called comfortable remove in reaching this conclusion the court noted that quote in our society police officers are expected to endure significant burdens caused by citizens' exercise of their first amendment rights the same restraint demanded of law enforcement officers in the face of so-called provocative and challenging speech must be expected when they are merely the subject of video Taping that memorializes without impairing their work in public spaces here Mr Nathanson was filming from a safe distance from the acciden SC and attempting to comply with Deputy Rosati's orders that he not quote unquote interfere as such Mr Nathanson would have a strong argument that his filming was protected by the First Amendment and that Deputy Rosa's decision to place him in handcuffs interfered with his first and Fourth Amendment rights you have anything in your pocket you're not supposed to anything going to poke me stick me harm me hurt me have a seat have a seat I have a seat I'll speak to you in a minute have a seat [Music] [Music] how do you how do you communicate this all you need okay here I'll tell you what listen to what I'm telling you okay I've asked you not to interfere nope I asked you not to interfere you ended up communicating over here when I told you you couldn't then you can continue to pass the Line in the Sand when I asked you not to okay we're not going to play this game I understand what you're trying to do but right now we already have enough tension going on with what's going on over here do you understand that okay so so right now you need to just respect what we're doing okay and we're going to go from there all right stand up go ahead and have a seat back in the car have a seat back in the car I would like to do okay how a see hey uh yeah you guys in the area or any of you in the area all right uh there's a gentleman who was coming up on our scene while we're dealing with a traffic accident and he's trying to video and film us uh I asked him to step back he starts interacting with our uh victim suspect or the vehicle accident I asked him to not interact or interfere step back past the line he's still over here trying to film us he's detained in the backseat of my car while we're conducting our our business here on the traffic stop um he's requesting a supervisor I didn't I asked him not to to pass the line he's coming over here I I tell him that we're not to interact over here he's coming over he's getting up to our cars filming it filming us while we're trying to do what we're doing I ask him please step back I'll talk to him afterwards and he's still trying to interact with us so I detained him because it's getting a little ridiculous Deputy rosace calls a supervisor to explain the situation but tells a very different story from the body camera footage first Deputy rosace claims that he told Mr Nathanson not to cross a line and that Mr Nathanson did not comply however the body camera footage shows that Deputy rosace never told Mr Nathanson to stay behind a certain line and simply told him to stay off the scene and stand on the sidewalk next Deputy rosace alleged that Mr Nathanson was coming up to the officer's vehicles and filming after he ordered them to stand back from the scene when in fact Mr Nathanson was initially filming near the police vehicles when he arrived on the scene but once Deputy rosace ordered him to stay back he didn't not attempt to reapo the vehicles finally Deputy rosace claimed that when he detained Mr Nathanson he was attempting to interact with the officers when in fact Mr Nathanson was silently filming from a public sidewalk a substantial distance away from the ACT accident yes sir yes sir I just have him detained right now I don't really care I me I'll take him to jail but right now I'm just trying to get done what we're doing because we've got a parents showing up the both subjects are arguing back and forth and nope he was not he just showed up to to film us he's got his little information he wants to handle hand us while we're on the scene and he's a guy who who has a who can't talk he has to use the machine to talk so I don't know if you're familiar with him all right so it looks like we're about ready to be done here and I'm good to set them free but at the end of the day I mean that's just where we're at right now yep 10 all right thanks you got enough air back there sir more AC turn it up you said [Music] what you doing with him I'm sorry what are you doing with this dude well would you let him go I I I I it's up to him I mean I'll get him for obstruction but right now I'm just I'm just trying to make sure that we don't have all these people coming over to us [Music] hey rachi yeah um yeah so it was a signal for I was at the gas station getting a drink and there's a signal for involving uh looks like a great Chrysler and then um shortly after that some gentleman shows up uh he's got a speech issue he can't talk he has to talk by using a machine so he comes over he's literally right up to the door of my car filming up in there and he's just some Joe citizen has nothing to do with this situation or this accident um I told him to step back that he is impeding our investigation and he will be placed in handcuffs he needs to step back and he's telling me like he's I can't say he's telling me he is holding up a sign and and I kind of know what his deal is but he's not rapid to move so I escorted him to the sidewalk and I said you can stay over here you can film us as much as you want but do not cross the line over here we're doing an investigation I do not need you interacting cuz then he goes and he's interacting with the uh the um people in the accident so he's over there interacting with them so I told him do not come back do not interact do not cross my line uh or I will put you in handcuffs and so he does and I go ahead and put him in handcuffs and escort him to the car but well I right now I'm I'm good with as long as I can get him for obstruction but right now I just wanted to make sure that everything is safe here so he Delta 14 can do his investigation yeah he's detained right now yes sir yes sir we do yes absolutely I agree like do you want are you coming out here not no need to right perfect sounds good yes sir all right so here's the deal all right you're going to be placed under a restroom instruction okay listen to me all right if you have a if you have a complaint or or you you can talk to him listen listen to me you're not going to okay have a nice day Deputy rosace tells Mr Nathanson that he's going to be placed under arrest for obstruction under section 84302 of the Florida Statutes quote whoever shall resist obstruct or oppose any officer in the lawful execution of any legal Duty without offering or doing violence to the person of the officer shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree Florida courts have generally concluded the failure to comply with the lawful order of a police officer can constitute obstruction in violation of this statute and in his arrest affidavit Deputy rosace wrote that Mr Nathanson quote began walking toward the scene and one final order was given for the defendant to step back the defendant then planted his feet not yielding to the final order and was subsequently placed under arrest for obstruction now it should be noted that prior to Mr nathanson's arrest the body camera footage shows that he had taken a couple of steps back from where Deputy rosace ordered him to stand and then stepped forward again to his initial location after Mr Nathanson returned to where he had been standing Deputy rosace ordered him to step back even further and Mr Nathanson responded by trying to draw Deputy rach's attention to where he was standing Deputy rosace then ignored Mr nathanson's attempts to communicate and placed him under arrest as we discussed earlier in this episode it is Highly Questionable whether Deputy Race's order that Mr Nathanson continued to step back from the scene when he was already standing where Deputy rosace had told him to stand which was on a public sidewalk a considerable distance away from the scene was lawful in consideration of the substantial protections given to filming the police in a public forum by the First Amendment as the 11 circuit court of appeals outlined in the 2022 case of Baxter versus Roberts a citizen's failure to comply with an unlawful police command does not constitute obstruction under Florida law rather as the court explained quote Florida's obstruction statute makes clear that a citizen commits an obstruction offense only if his resistance is in response to the officer's lawful execution of a legal duty to meet this threshold the conduct of the officer must be consistent with the Fourth Amendment and any other relevant requirements of law accordingly even if a court found that Mr Nathanson had failed to comply with Deputy rach's commands which is Highly Questionable in and of itself it is improbable that a court would find that Mr nathanson's actions Rose to the level of obstruction given deputy rosace likely unlawful interference with his First Amendment right to film 6234 man show me 105 white mail all right sir listen listen to what I'm going to tell you okay you're already hard enough to understand I'm not going to sit here and have a conversation with you when every time I do you talk over me we're not going to do it okay so when we get to the jail we can establish everything that you need you need your your stuff is in the car and you'll have it when we get to the jail do you need Medics do you need Medics when when you get to the jail you can ask the the nurse I they will have yes they will they'll have what you need S I asked you to step off the scene and stop interacting okay building building yep I'm hot I'll tell you so all right so this vehicle cut across while is getting a drink at the gas station cuts across into the lane of traffic and gets hit okay immed get out engage the driver start hitting on the door so it turns into a 22 verbal then all of a sudden the guy who doesn't talk you know what I'm talking about you do who uses the machine to talk into comes over he literally right up at my window and he's sitting there recording in my car and all over and I said sir we don't need this right now we're in the middle of an investigation I need you to take your take it over there and then he comes over and he starts talking to them getting in the middle of the investigation told him if he if he cross the line again and I'm going to go ahead and put him in cops so he's unrelated to this whole inst totally unrelated okay 100% I went ahead and uh placed him under yeah so he's he's under arrest not on your window everything was on right this was on the whole time yeah yeah that's the guy who came up to me and you at the gas station yeah he's what he's trying to do is he's trying to to trying to get arrested so that he can somehow accuse us of violating his rights well now that you're here I'm going to go ahead and take my guy just make sure that he's good you can talk to him at the jail nope come on I don't need to put you in handcuffs you didn't leave anything in the car did you you don't have anything on you that there nothing in here what is it no you're fine listen to me listen to me all right you don't have anything on you're not supposed to okay I just want to make sure that you know if anything goes in the jail all right just want to make sure you knew that after his arrest Mr Nathanson was charged with obstruction but on August 21st 2021 an assistant State Attorney dropped the charge filing an announcement of no information that stated quote after review of the body cam video the actions of the defendant do not support prosecution of the charge on June 14th 2024 Mr Nathanson filed an unlaw full arrest lawsuit against deputy rosace and marry and County Sheriff Billy Woods in his complaint Mr Nathanson alleged that when Deputy rosace arrested him he twisted his arm and fractured his shoulder the complaint also referred to Deputy rosace as a quote unquote former Marian County deputy sheriff but no additional information regarding the termination of Deputy Race's employment is available as of the date of writing this episode Mr nathanson's lawsuit is still pending overall Deputy rosace gets an F for maintaining a hostile and overly aggressive demeanor throughout the encounter showing a complete lack of respect for Mr nathanson's first and Fourth Amendment rights and blatantly misrepresenting the facts when attempting to justify his decision to handcuff Mr Nathanson to me it seems likely that Deputy rosace intentionally failed to mention that Mr Nathanson had complied with his order to stand on the sidewalk and was standing a substantial distance away from the accident scene when he decided to arrest him instead Deputy rosace repeatedly described the situation in a misleading way making it seem like Mr Nathanson was actively approaching the scene when he was arrested I didn't I asked him not to to pass the line he's coming over here I I tell him that we're not to interact over here he's coming over he's getting up to our cars filming it filming us while we're trying to do what we're doing I asked him please step back I'll talk to him afterwards and he's still trying to interact with us so I detained him because it's getting little ridiculous so he's over there interacting with them so I told him do not come back do not interact not cross my line uh or I will put you in handcuffs and so he does and I go ahead and put him in handcuffs and escort him with the car but fortunately body camera footage that unquestionably contradicts Deputy rosace story was available for this encounter and the fabricated charge against Mr Nathanson was dropped however this interaction revealed an alarming lack of Integrity on Deputy Rosa's part and leads me to seriously question the validity of previous arrests by Deputy rosace where the events were not so clearly documented Mr Nathanson gets an a because although he did get heeded at certain points during the encounter he generally maintained a calm and respectful demeanor attempted to comply with Deputy Rosa's commands submitted to the unlawful arrest without physical resistance and took appropriate legal action after the fact to challenge Deputy Race's actions while Mr Nathanson did his best to try to communicate with Deputy rosace during the encounter Deputy rosace had no interest in trying to understand his disability or what he was trying to say to him and Mr Nathanson then proceeded to peacefully and non-disruptively film the officers from a significant distance I commend Mr Nathanson for his tenacity and his commitment to defending his constitutional rights and wish him the best of luck in the courtroom let us know if there is an interaction or legal topic that you would like us to discuss in the comments below thank you for watching and don't forget to check out my second channel for even more police interaction content [Music]