right whenever you're ready Mr L thank you uh good morning good morning could you uh please state your name and and spell your last name for the jury Julie Albert a lb e r t and uh where do you live now I live at 22 Maple Street in Canton and how long have you lived a little over two years and how long in total have you lived in C my whole life uh 48 years and where did you live uh just prior to living on Bap I lived at seven Meadows Avenue in Canton and how long period of time did you live at seven Meadows oh um 20 15 plus 20 years about 20 years and um do you have kids yes I have three boys and uh are you married yes I am what's your husband's name Christopher Albert and uh your three boys how old are you um my oldest Christopher is 25 my second son Colin is 20 and my youngest son Dylan is 16 and uh do each of them um where where do they live do they live with you they all live with me yes and your husband does he work yes what does he do he owns a restaurant in Canton what's the name of the restaurant DNA pizza and where is that located 618 Washington Street now when you lived on Meadows Avenue can you describe for the jury sort of if you know about how many houses are on Meadows I would say maybe eight on each side and Meadows comes out to a main road is that correct yes Pleasant Street okay and um while you were living on Meadows Avenue did you have occasion to come to know someone by the name of John O yes I did and where did John live in relation to you um John's house was at the top of the street and there's two houses there was two houses between John's house and my house and if you recall about how long you known John O keeper when did he move in M I think he moved in in 200 17ish maybe and I've probably known him since maybe 2019 and how would you describe sort of your relationship with johd we were friendly um we were neighbors you know i' see him all the time coming in and out of the street and cuz he's at the top of the street when I pulled out of the street and um we were friendly and in addition to you knowing Mr O other sort of people that uh that knew you that also knew him yes yes who who were some of those people um well I know I knew John through Jennifer mccab and who is Jennifer mccab um she's one of my closest friends now you knew that John had two children that he was uh Guardian for yes um and you were familiar with both his niece and his nephew yes now at some point um through Mr o'keef did you come to know somebody by the name of Karen yes when about was it that you met M [Music] um maybe like in like 2021 like you know pulling in and out of the street if they were outside if you know couple times out socially probably in 2021 I would say um and if you could just so we're clear do you see Miss Reed in the yes between her lawyers right over there that's a record of like identification by the witness now on some social occasions that you were talking about when you would see them out would you see would you have occasion to socially interact with Mr o'keith and M yes is that something that like you and your husband did together or was it more of a group setting type no a group setting and with reference to to uh did you have occasions where you would socially hang out or interact with m roef in which Miss Reed wasn't there um I can only honestly remember one time and that was I don't even know if they were together at the time and have you ever socially interacted or or spent time with Miss Reed separate and apart from M Roki no now if I could turn your attention to January 28th uh 2022 do you recall that day yes you recall what day of the week it was um Friday and uh what if anything did you have plans for that particular evening um the next day was my nephew's birthday so we were all a bunch of us were going to go out that night um the night before to um a bar and Canon by the night before you mean the night before his birthday yes and that nephew um what was that nephew's name Brian Brian junor and if you know about how old was he turning or how let me start with this how old is he now um he's 24 um so just turned 24 a few months ago January yep and so he would have been turning what 22 at that point yes um and we say we had plans to sort of go out who who um myself my his mother Nicole my niece Caitlyn um and a couple of Brian's friends now and you mean Brian Jr's friends yes and so Brian Albert Jr has a mother named Nicole Albert is that correct yes and uh how is she sort of how is she related to you um she's my sister-in-law our husband's a Brothers um so your husband Christopher has a brother Brian BR that would be sort of Brian sen yep um your husband Christopher how many siblings does he have six and Brian is the oldest the oldest yes and so there were plans to go out that evening the day before Brian Albert Jr's birthday correct yes and what were the plans what did they sort of consist um we were just going to go to waterfall is waterfalls it's a baron camp on Washington Street and from your husband's pizza shop at to the waterfall about how far away are the two from each other um very close I mean 200 steps maybe you can very very close on same side of the street or opposite sides now when it came to that day um where did you go did you go to the waterfall first or somewhere else or if you know I went to my sister-in-law CO's house to pick her up and do you know the address where your sister-in-law and your brother-in-law live 34 Fe where they lived 34 Fe View Road um and that was somewhere that you had been numerous occasions before yes and when you arrived at uh 34 Fairview Road uh you went inside the house I think I went inside for a moment yeah just to wait and you know who if anyone did you see in there that you knew or recognized or or didn't um I know my my niece Caitlyn was in there my nephew Brian I don't I think I don't recall I I don't recall who else was in the your sister-in-law Nicole was she there yeah she was ready to leave yep and um when you left I'm using sort of you and the plural so you drove is that correct I drove yep and who if anyone went along with you in your car um Nicole my sister-in-law and Caitlyn my niece and Brian did not end up coming with us and so your nephew Brian for whom you had initially made the plans to go out and celebrate didn't end up coming correct and uh why was that just I don't he just I don't think he was failing up to it and uh if you know about what time was it that you picked your sister-in-law and your niece up and then went to work I would I don't remember exactly but I would probably say between maybe 7:30 and 8 730 like around 7:30 maybe and uh you arrive at the waterfall you go in um if you could just um explain for the jury sort of when you walk into the the door of the waterfall where was it that that three of you went when you walk into the door there's a couple high top tables long high top tables in front of you and we just sat down at a high top table right when you walked through the door now from your experience either that evening or prior evenings uh on certain nights does the waterfall have any kind of sort of entertainment yeah they always have um every week's different they have bands and from your recollection was there a band there that night yes there was and do you recall where you were seated in relation to the band um I was sitting at the end of the high top table closest to the door that you walk in and the band was to the right of me against a wall and kind of like an Al Cove like a little against the wall and when you went there was the band already sort of set up and playing or or did that happen later I think they set up while we were there I think and so initially when you go there do you go there and just have drinks or did you eat something or what we ate and yeah and while you were there as far as um during sort of the meal portion of it was there anyone else that joined you I know my um niece's boyfriend Tristan moris came I I don't remember exactly when it was during that but I know he was there and then during the meal part I don't um I don't think during the meal part anyone else I I don't think so you recall as far as the meal part was concerned with you your sister-in-law Nicole your niece cayin and her boyfriend trist correct and uh Mr Morris did he stay for any extended period of time or or when was it that he left I know he stayed for a little bit but I honestly can't remember what time exactly he left now your husband was he working on that day yes he was and um had you been in communication with him as to where you were going to be yes and so the plan was basically for him to meet you at the waterfall when he was done with work corre yes and if you know about what time was it that your husband Christopher came over to the water maybe 9:30 10 I maybe I don't remember exactly just you know approximate time yeah um so it's sometime around 9:30 or so your husband Christopher comes over to the waterfall yes and H what if anything do did he do when he got I came in yeah he came in did he get anything to eat anything to drink I'm yeah prob probably ordered to drink and just stood by the table I would think and um you and the people in your group were you drinking that night yes what what is it do you recall specifically what you had to drink um I think I had just a couple glasses of wine and uh your husband what does he you recall specifically what he had that night what he would drink is millerite and that's sort of typically what he would drink when he was out yes okay and uh your sister-in-law Nicole uh you what she was drinking I would assume white claw a white claw and same question with regard to your knes cap yes probably white clar as well now while um while you were there who if any um so after your husband came in who if anyone else sort of came in and joined uh the group that you will be um my brother-in-law Brian Albert and his friend Brian Higgins and obviously you know your brother-in-law Brian Albert correct and you know yes thank you um you just have to answer a so did you know Mr Higgins as well yes and how did you know Mr Higgins I just know him from being friends with my brother-in-law as you and knew him just sort of through your brother-in-law Brian is that correct yeah okay yes and um do you know when they arrived in relation to when your husband Chris arrived I don't I don't I don't recall but some point after correct yes then after um they arrived uh who if anyone else do you recall sort of arriving and and joining in your group um Jennifer mcab and Matt mcab and there was a couple um I don't even know their name kius they arrived I don't know their first names um and John and Karen arrived shortly after that and just so you can clear up people as far as Jennifer mve already mentioned her and Matthew was at her husband MH yes and the other couple that you were talking about are sort of guessing their names have you ever met them before no nope um not anybody that you're particularly friends with or anything like that no I know them who they are from seeing them maybe at a sporting event or something but I've never been introduced to them and when you say sort of sporting events sporting events in relation to relation to what um bask if they were like a basketball game and I was at a g like I've just seen them around I'm assuming probably sporting events probably a basketball game and I'm sure it's pretty well understood but this I just want to clarify So when you say sporting events these are kids sporting events kids sporting events yes and so which kids sporting events would you be at that you would see this couple that you didn't know them um your kids or something no Jennifer mccabes kids okay so you would go to sporting events for jennif mes kids and see this couple yes and uh if you know about how long after M uh Brian Albert and Mr Higgins arrived uh did um did the maves and this other couple of that I really I don't remember exactly after after Mr Albert and Mr correct correct now that you mentioned uh Mr o'keef and Miss Reed came in at some point as well so you have to make sure you say yes or no okay and the other thing you say I assume or I guess don't answer okay if you don't know you okay and if you know about what time was it that Mr O from this before 11 o' [Music] okay and with reference to when Mr o'keef and um the defend Miss Reed came into the waterfall um where were you in relation to sort of the high to table that you were just I was at the top of the high top table closest to the door and when they came in where did Miss and and the defend go um John walked in and said hello and kept on walking I think to the bar and Karen came in and stopped at the table to talk for a minute and during the time that she stopped at the table to talk for a minute what if anything did she do um she opened her jacket and had a glass and pulled the glass out and started drinking the drink and as far as the the drink in the glass what if anything did You observe as far as color or anything clear and um the glass that she had could you see so the clear liquid inside it um how much of the glass was full of that I don't recall and she placed it on the table is that correct mhm yes and uh what was your reaction to that I think I laughed and said made a comment like you're crazy or something just because she walked in with the [Music] glass and did you know where Mr o'keef and and M had been coming from prior to them getting to the waterfall yes and and where were they coming CF MCA you're familiar with that establishment yes and where is that in relation to the waterfall um it's maybe 200 steps right next to my husband's restaurant so on the same side of opposite side opposite side on the same side of Washington Street as your husband's restaurant yes okay um in the same vicinity from DNA to Waterfall see if water yes now um over the course of the evening did you have occasion to uh see Mr O he was at a bar he had something to drink is that correct can you repeat that sure over the course of the evening did you have occas to observe uh what if anything Mr o'keef was drinking no I don't believe I left very shortly after they got there and so you left fa shortly after they arrived yes and if you know about how much time are we talking maybe 10 15 minutes and why is it that you left I had had a terrible migraine um from the band being so close yes and when you left where did you go home and when you got home um as far as your your children on that evening M um who was home who was out if you know um my youngest son was home and my oldest son didn't live at home he lived in California at the time and my middle son was not home and um so your oldest son Christopher he was in the Navy at that he's he was in the Navy and he was stationed in San Diego yes and so your middle son PA and he was out did you know where he was yes he was at I believe his friend Michael leonetti's house and at some point did you learn that Colin had gone from that person's house to somewhere else yes is this him communicating with you yes and that the place that he went to uh you know where that was yes my brother and sister-in-laws Nicole and Brian Albert's house on favy road and was that in relation to your your nephew and his birthday yes now while you were if I could take it back to the waterfall just for a so while you were at the waterfall obviously you see Mr o'keef and and Miss Reed come in U do you recall what Mr o'keef was wearing I know he had a hat on he had jeans on and he had something with a hood and from your observations did you ever see him with like a winter coat or a jacket or anything like that I did not and with regard to the clothing that you observed in wearing did you what if anything did You observe as far as the condition of that clothing and that I mean was it torn was it disheveled anything like that no nothing nothing that I remember and with regards to Mr o'keef as far as his appearance what if anything did You observe about him as far as injuries or anything nothing now with reference to your group as far as uh at the waterfall um how would you describe sort of the overall meanor or tone of of of the group and what was going on that just normal I thought it was just normal sitting listening to a band um so it leaves her in the time that you were there there were no sort of arguments or disagreements or anything like that nope nothing and specifically to Mr o'keef and the defendant M Reed while you were there during the short time that you were there when they were there did you observe anything as far as any arguments or disagreements or anything like that no I did not now at the time um so during that time between when they arrived you mentioned that John went up to the bar correct yes and where did the defendant go she talked to me at the top of the table for a few minutes and then I believe she made her way down the table to either Jennifer MBE or the couple that was at the end of the table to speak with and was it during that period of time that you had enough with the migraine and went home yes I left very very shortly after that now during the time that you were there and you were speaking with the defendant down sort of your end of the table um what if anything was uh discussed as far as sort of where to go what to do after the water um I do know that I do remember I'm sorry that Karen had asked if we could go back to d& my husband's store and make pizza because that's something we frequently do if we're out at the end of the night if we're hungry and was that something that you had discussed with Miss Reed either on that date or on a prior date I believe um we discussed just that we went there once and she we said next time she'll have to come with us was that something that was discussed as a possibility or something that was going to happen that night um I think right away I just wasn't going to do that because I wasn't feeling well and I just I think I might have said talk to Chris because I wasn't going to do it and is that something that she mentioned over the course of that evening once more than once or something just once to me so when you get home uh at some point uh the rest of your family came home at some point in the even corre yes and uh who came home first your husband Christopher or your son car my husband you know about what time that was I want to say about after 12 maybe um 12:10 around there so sometime around 12 12 sometime around 1210 yes and what if anything do you recall specifically about when your husband Christopher came um he came upstairs to my room he was shivering cuz it was cold out and he immediately went to the bathroom got undressed and gone into bed and uh your son Colin you been in communication with over the evening yes and about how long was it after your husband came home that your son called um 10 to 15 minutes and um were you essentially waiting up for him oh yes yep is that sort of common practice yes I do not go to bed until my kids are home and is there another common practice as far as when your kids come home where do they go when they first come in they immediately will always come in the door maybe grab a water out of the fridge and come upstairs and give me a kiss good night and tell me that they're home now did that happen on this occasion yes and uh so Colin came into your room and something yep he came right upstairs yes and when Colin came into your room and he came upstairs did you have occasion to observe him as far as U talk to him OB yes we talked from and he asked me if I was feeling better um and yeah we talk for a moment and during that conversation that you had with Colin U same similar to what I had asked you with regard to Mr Kei what if any injuries or anything did You observe on your son call none and fair to say the next day at some point you you talked to and had interaction with your son yes what if any injuries or anything did You observe none none so I know this is sort of hard so wait till Mr ly finishes his question before answering okay thank you now after some Callin came home um and you you eventually went to bed is that right yes and um turning your attention to the next morning uh the Saturday morning of the 29th about what time was it that you woke up I woke up about 8ish and with regard to your nephew Brian Jr uh whose birthday it was now on the 29th what if any sort of tradition do you have with respect to him and his birthday every year on his birthday I go to Dunka Donuts I get him six donuts and I bring them to the house and I leave them there with a card before he gets up so when he wakes up they're there I've been doing it for years and is that what your intention was on this morning as well yes is that what you did on that yes now when you woke up um probably like most people at some point did you look at your phone yes and when you looked at the screen to your phone what if anything did you see I had a m call from my friend Jen mcabe and was there any sort of um rotation in regard to the Miss call as to what time that Miss call had come in but it was 5:55 maybe so sometime earlier in the morning early morning yes and Beyond uh the Miss call was there any other sort of U stamp or notification on the phone as far as a voicemail text message I'm sorry no there was not and not from Miss MCC correct correct and not from anybody else correct and uh at any point in time on that morning over the phone did you speak with Miss M no I do not and uh did you call her so you didn't call her back or anything like that I did not and so after you wake up at some point you go to Dunkin' donuts and get the six donuts yes and where did you go with those I drove to 34 fiew and when you arrived at 34th Fairview uh where did you park in relation to the house I pulled into the driveway and um when you came up to the house and you were driving to the house at this point it was what was the weather like at this point it was coming down the snow was coming down pretty good and um with reference to the house what if anything did you notice out of the ordinary with regard to the house or the street or anything else um Jennifer mcb's car was in the driveway and um as far as any other vehicles on the street or anything like that what was going on at that I don't recall I don't nothing you can recall no oh what time was this that you got there 8 8:30 9:00 8:30 um around that and when you get there you pull in the driveway what what did you do I opened my car door I got out to walk to the car in front of me to leave the donuts and card inside my nephew Brian's car and Brian Albert came to the door Brian Albert senior came to the door and he told me to come asked me to come in for a second and I said that I didn't need to and he said I said I'm just leaving these get this gift for Brian Jr and he said no just come in for a second so I went into the house and when you walk into uh 34th Fairview Road on that morning who if anyone else was here Nicole Albert Brian Albert Brian Higgins Jennifer mcab and Matt mcab and where were they in relation to to the house in the kitchen and um what if anything did they tell you at that time when I first walked in nothing everyone was just sitting there and I was looking around and everyone was visibly upset and I asked what what's going on in another maybe 30 seconds went by and Jen said something's happened to John and I said John I'm conf she said John O and I said is he is he okay objection no I'm going to allow it I said is he okay and she said we don't know and that was that and after hearing um that information how long were you were you at your brother and sister in M's house probably about half hour 45 minutes maybe and um where did you go from I went home to wake my husband up to let him know what it happened and at some point after you go home and wake up your husband where did you and your husband go we went back to thir I woke up my husband told him what had happened and we went back to Fairview and so the second time that you had gone back to Fairview how long a period of time you're there that I would say probably half hour not long and then after that half hour or so where'd you go out back home to my house during either of those occasions when you were at um 34 Fairview Road on the morning of the 29th you had occasion to talk and observe uh Brian Albert senr correct yes and similar to questions that I asked with regards to Mr Keith and your son col um what if any injuries or anything out of place did you know with respect to to Brian I nothing that I saw same question with respect to Mr pins as far as you made observations and spoke at least in the same room as him on that morning yes and what if anything did You observe as far as injuries or anything else on us to hate nothing and when you woke up uh your husband that next morning um your other two sons uh being Colin and and Dylan they were at home still yes they were at home still asleep and and um with regards to when you went to Fairview came back with your husband went back to Fairview and then came back again were they still asleep I don't remember youall well let me put it this way as far as your sons did they either of your sons come back with you to Fairview Road that day no they did not and you recall whether or not either Colin or Dylan was awake when you left second time to go to Fairview I don't at some point a few days after this uh did you have occasion to meet with um a couple troopers from the state police yes I did they came to my home when you say they how many of them were there were two and you spoke to them that day in reference to what you had observed at the waterfall everything you just yes I did I have one moment you're on yes just one last question when you when you came over to Fairview Road that first time with the donuts as far as the inside of the house what if anything did You observe as far as the the condition of the home or anything about the home that seems Abal or out of place or off you know from the the evening before when you were there nothing I have nothing further to okay Miss tetti thank you good afternoon Miss Albert good afternoon you and I have never met correct correct um I just wanted to pick up on a question that and an answer that Mr La asked you and that you uh responded to uh he had just uh asked you whether or not a few days later you spoke with a couple of state troopers do you recall that question yes and your answer was yes yes you would agree with me that it was more than just a few days later correct I I February 10th of 2022 that two state troopers came to speak with you and your husband Chris correct correct uh and so we're talking about 13 days later almost two weeks later correct if that was the date yes correct prior to February 10th no investigator from this case uh bothered to talk to you or your husband correct correct now in terms of the two investigators who did come uh you know you knew one of them quite well did you not I knew them I wouldn't say quite well but I knew them okay and when you say you knew them him I'm sorry him okay and who was it that you knew Michael Proctor uh Michael Proctor was the brother of one of your close friends correct correct uh you're close friends with Courtney Proctor correct I am and uh by the way your maiden name is Daniels correct yes it is and you have a sister Jill Daniels correct yes I do and you would agree that Jill Daniels is also lifelong best friends with Courtney Proctor correct yes she is and in terms of your relationship with Courtney Proctor you socialize with her do you not jaction do you um occasionally yes um go out for drinks with her correct yes um you've attended parties with her correct yes um you've also provided child care for her children correct strike I'll see you on sidebar on this m everybody so uh Miss Albert you provided child care for Courtney procress children objection need a time frame Mr have you ever provided child care for CH courney proce children jaction so you need a time frame um before January of 2022 did you provide child care for courtne Pro's children yes when 2019 2019 just that one year yes it was preco and then when covid happened and everything shut down I wasn't helping her any longer and then occasionally after I would help just on and on need as needed basis okay after Co and uh during that year of 2019 how often did you watch her children two days a week and she had a boy and a girl correct what were their names Jack and Caroline and Jack and Caroline were Trooper Proctor's niece and nephew correct yes um the Proctor family entrusted you with the care of their children correct Jack it sustained as asked you know that Michael Proctor is a state trooper correct yes you knew that he also was from Canton yes you knew his wife Elizabeth Proctor yes and you were also aware that Courtney Proctor had recommended you to also watch Michael Proctor and Elizabeth Proctor's children correct move to strike that objection sustain but you go back a long way with quot you thought correct correct um in fact you were certainly at her wedding correct jaction sustain your son was a ring bearer at that wedd jaction all right so we'll sustain that through this witness um you've spent time at Michael Proctor's childhood home have you not yes you've been to the pool at the Proctor's house correct yes have that the PO photo I she's Christmas maybe we approach how many times have you been to the proor pool i' say maybe a dozen and you've certainly taken your children there as well yes Colin has been for the Proctor's pool yes and you've seen Michael Proctor's mother and father at that pool correct yes uh you've seen Courtney Proctor and her husband at that pool correct yes um you are very close with Courtney Proctor correct I don't how would you define very well I guess I'd ask you to Define very close do you do you deny that you were very close with Courtney Pro no Jack no go ahead next question you got your answer I didn't hear the answer go ahead repeat that do you deny that you were very close with Courtney Proctor no okay you talk regularly correct yes text each other correct yes you also talk by phone very rarely um is it uh fair to did you say very rarely you talk usually it's text but do you stand by that testimony that you talked to Courtney proor very rarely by phone do we have do we have a time frame do you mean now or do you mean then let me ask you this between February 1st of 2022 and September 6th of 2022 did you only speak rarely with Courtney Proctor I don't recall um were you using Courtney Proctor as an intermediary to communicate with Michael proor about this case objection I'll allow it no I was not are you aware that between February 1st of 2022 and September 6th of 2022 you and Courtney Proctor spoke by phone 67 times objection were you aware of that no I don't know the exact count do you deny that you spoke 67 times I don't deny it but I don't I don't recall the exact amount of times Okay so you don't deny that you spoke 67 times you still want to maintain your testimony that you only talk very rarely with courton Proctor during that time period I just don't remember the exact amount of times well you know that my client Karen Reed was arrested in connection with this case on February 1st of 2022 do you not I do you spoke to the courton Proctor that date for 12 minutes by phone correct I don't recall exactly I don't remember exactly may I approach sure uh before I approach your memories exhausted as to whether you spoke to Courtney Proctor that day and if so how long the two of you spoke yes show I made sure um I'm showing you a document uh with a number of just show it to right no I just wanted to point out which one that I'm pointing out so the third I was going to say a number of lines the the third line down uh if you would take a look at that specific date and time and see if that refreshes your memory about whether and how long you're supposed to court the Proctor on February 1st of 2022 can you see that or do you need glasses no I can see it I do have a pair of readers that I need as well if you need to borrow them yes if I could of course thank you I left mine downstairs I I just got these and it's likeed just bring them up please it took me a while to figure them out but anyway thank you I appreciate it it's the third yeah third line down third line down yes I see it I just I don't I don't recall this okay it's a long time ago thank you and you you say that having seen this record it does not refresh your memory that you spoke to courton Proctor for don't don't it does not refresh memory that's where you have to leave um did did Courtney Proctor tell you the day of my of my client's arrest on February 1st that she had been discussing the case with her brother that day jaction this did you speak to Courtney paror that day in any fashion what day exactly of my client's arrest on February 1st of 2022 that was on the sheet you just gave me it was well I did obviously if it was on that sheet okay uh and when you talked to her did she tell you that she had discussed the case with her brother jaction sustained were you notified that Karen was going to be arrested jaction sustained what did you discuss I don't recall um the next day February 2nd of 2022 was the day that my client was arraigned back in Stoten District Court do you recall that yes I do um you spoke to Courtney Proctor three times that day before my clients publicly televised arraignment at 9:00 a.m. did you not again I don't remember um after the arraignment you spoke to her again for 27 minutes beginning at 10:58 a.m. did you not I don't recall okay so your testimony is well strike that uh my client's arrest was pretty big news in Massachusetts wasn't it objection sustained you were aware that my client had been arrested correct yes I had seen it on the news you were aware that she was being arraigned the very next day were you not yes this case involved your family did it not how do you mean it well you knew that John O'Keefe was found dead on your brother-in-law Brian Albert's lawn correct correct so necessarily your family was involved in this case correct somewhat yes and you knew that ultimately you'd probably be talked to by investigators from this case correct I assume so yes didn't happen for 13 days but ultimately they did come correct yes all right um so this case had to have been pretty big news within the Albert family was it not well yes yes you were discussing it with your husband correct yes you were discussing it with your other relatives correct yes you were discussing it with your friends correct I don't know about my friends but okay yeah so is it your testimony that with all of this going on you confined your discussions about this case just to your specific family members not necessarily no I mean clearly you would have talked to court and Proctor about this correct Jack so folks why don't we end here right um you have to be back tomorrow for glasses truth truth and nothing truth [Music] so okay I'm just going to remind you keep your voice up please miss Albert okay all right mred thank [Applause] you good morning Miss Albert good morning uh ma'am you will recall yesterday um I broached the topic with you of how often you and Courtney Proctor speak to each other over the phone do you recall that line of question yes and when I asked you to describe the frequency of those phone calls uh I I didn't put any words in your mouth did I I didn't suggest how frequently they were you came up with the word I don't really let me put it this way uh when I asked you how often you talked to Courtney Proctor you could have chosen any word in the English language to answer that question correct correct what was the word that you chose not often I I I don't remember honestly rarely rarely yes that was your word correct it could have been I don't really recall I was I don't recall you don't recall telling this jury yesterday that when I asked you about how often you spoke to courtne you proor by phone you said well rarely I don't remember what is your definition of rarely not daily I not daily not yes once in a blue moon no uh rarely doesn't mean to you 67 phone conversations within a 7mon period does it a 67 time period in how many eight months in about seven months 67 times it's it's not a lot I would I wouldn't think it's a lot in seven months three times in one day is that rarely no but I'm not that wasn't every day I would okay well when you left the stand yesterday uh did you log into your account or check any gold bills to confirm those 67 calls no I did not did you speak to Mr L about those 67 calls after we broke yesterday and before you took the stand today I don't believe so no did you call Courtney Proctor in one of those rare occasions yesterday no I did not this morning no I did not were you were you curious as to whether or not you had actually called her those 67 times objection sustained all right in any case regarding all of those 67 phone calls from February 1st until September 6th do you m maintain that during none of those calls or any portion of those calls did you and Courtney Proctor uh discuss the investigation into the death of John o'keef I do not remember do you do you deny discussing that investigation I don't deny but I do not remember all right well you admitted yesterday after having seen the records that you spoke with Michael doctor's sister for 12 minutes on February 1st of 2022 do you recall that I don't recall the conversation no I don't it was a long time ago I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt you finish your I'm sorry it was a long time ago I just don't remember okay but but my question is after seeing the records you saw the phone call for over 12 minutes correct correct uh and you also remember that that was the very day that the police arrested Karen Reed for this case correct correct uh the arrest of Karen Reed on February 1st was pretty big news in Massachusetts correct Jackson sustained you had seen that arrest all over the news correct correct all so you certainly given the day and the fact that it was February 1st and my client was arrested that day and you're talking to the lead invest inator sister the subject of Karen Reed's arrest had to have come up right jaction s ask it differently uh you you certainly mentioned my client's arrest with Courtney Proctor on the very day that she was arrested and you were talking to Courtney correct correct now when we broke for the day yesterday I had uh also asked you about the three phone calls that you had with Michael Proctor's sister on the morning of February 2nd when my client was arraigned correct correct uh and you recall that her arraignment was televised publicly correct jaction suain ask get different you you saw her on the news being arraigned correct correct and one of those phone calls after well stri that with regard to the three phone calls before the the arraignment um you knew at that time that my client had been ar arrested the day before correct correct and you knew she would be arraigned in court that morning correct correct uh certainly when you were talking to Michael Pro's sister on February 2nd before her 9:00 arraignment you were discussing the 9:00 arraignment correct can you repeat the end of that please on February 2nd the day that my client was scheduled to be arraigned in stoton District Court we're talking about the three phone calls that you made to Michael Proctor's sister before that arraignment that very day and my question is certainly you were discussing the fact that she was about to be arraigned correct jaction Su ask it differently Mr did the subject of Karen Reed's arraignment come up in any of those three calls on February 2nd the day she was going to be arraigned before her arraignment I don't remember exactly what about the 27 minute phone call that you had with Courtney Proctor at 10:58 a.m. that same day after my client was arraigned in quot did you discuss the arraignment that had just happened I do not remember it would already testified that by 2022 you were no no longer babysitting for courton Pro's kids correct I wasn't babysitting regularly like I was before so is it your testimony that you happened to be talking about babysitting on February 2nd for 27 minutes the same day that my client was arraigned and still dist rept I I don't remember what I was talking about it could have been about the kids it could have been about it could have been about anything I don't remember sure and and certainly it could have been about the public televised arment that had just occurred correct ja so I'll allow this and then let's move away from this okay can you answer that yes it could have been yes uh did you tell Court Proctor during any of these 67 phone calls that you were a witness in her brother's case I don't remember okay Miss Albert you were at the waterfall on the night of January 28th correct yes and you also went to 34 Fairview on the morning of January 29th yes yet as of the date of these phone calls that we've discussed so far the February 1st and the February 2nd multiple phone calls um Trooper Proctor still had not interviewed you correct correct uh you were finally interviewed by Trooper Proctor on February 10th about 13 days after John O'Keefe was found dead on Brian Albert's correct correct and you told Courtney Proctor that you were nervous to speak to her brother Trooper Proctor about this case you remember that I do not remember those exact words no all right but you were nervous to speak to him correct of course I was nervous in general for a police interview I mean I don't know someone who wouldn't be were you worried that one of Trooper Proctor's colleagues might ask to speak to your son Colin about what had happened on the 28 in the 29th Jackson was I nervous they would ask my son yeah were you nervous that one of the investigators in this case might approach your son to ask him about his whereabouts no all right uh in any case you were interviewed at 5:30 p.m. on February 10th correct correct where did that interview take place at my home in Canton who was present for That interview me my husband Trooper Proctor and Trooper [Music] Michael Proctor agreed to interview you and your husband together correct jackon suain you and your husband were interviewed together correct correct did either of these Troopers including Michael Proctor suggests that maybe the two of you should be separately interviewed I don't recall um I remember take place within your home room in my family room were you sitting on couches yes your comfortable yes you were not in a police interrogation room correct no I was not and it wasn't particularly lengthy correct what do you define lengthly I I I don't Rec I don't remember how long it was exactly it didn't go into the evening correct yeah uh and then uh Michael Proctor and the other Trooper left correct correct then at 6 17 p.m. that same night uh shortly after you had been interviewed you called Michael C's personal cell phone number correct I I don't remember let may have a moment okay um you didn't bring your cheaters today oh you did good okay may I approach your yes this is the samec uh I'm going to hand you one document there's an orange sticky on it that you can ignore okay but right above the orange sticky there's a date of February 10th that's what I'm directing your attention to you could look at those two phone calls uh ma'am and look up at me when you're done I may approach did that refresh your memory about those two phone calls on February 10th I mean I just read them but I don't remember okay uh you called Trooper Proctor at 6:17 p.m. and it appears to be a 5-second phone call did you see that jaction do you recall that Trooper Proctor called you back that same day at 6:21 p.m. and that you spoke for about 4 minutes Jack do you deny speaking to Trooper Proctor for four minutes when he called you from his personal cell phone on February 10th of 2022 after you had been interviewed that no I don't deny it but I don't I don't remember it when did you get his personal cell phone number don't remember years ago I'm sure yes because you've known that family for a long time yes I have and uh as you testify here today you can't remember what that phone call would have been about correct no I do not remember okay I'd like to contrast your relationship with Karen Reed versus your relationships with uh Jennifer mccab and Courtney Pro you would agree with me and I think you testified yesterday that Jennifer mccab is one of your best friends correct and you call her Jen correct yes and Courtney Proctor is also one of your best friends correct she's not one of my best friends no she's a good friend she's not one of my best friends no she's my sister's best friend gotcha okay so your sister my sister yes dillian is best friends with Courtney Proctor and you're close friends with her but not best friends correct uh but you really only knew Karen Reed as joh o' Keef's girlfriend correct correct she was just an acquaintance of yours yes uh there are no photos of you in a hot tub together right you and Karen Reed no there are no photos of you with your arms around each other at the beach correct no you've never been to a baby shower with Karen Reed correct jaction just uh you didn't have any contact with Karen Reed while you were growing up correct no Karen Reed was definitely not from K correct check I'll allow this and then you can move no she was not no one more question she was an outsider correct to Canton she didn't live in Canton all right uh but after you she started dating John you would see her driving in and out of the street correct yes you'd see her taking groceries in correct yes because you were neighbors with John yes and the it was the fact that you'd see her around you know taking groceries in and out of the house and being outside with the kids that led you to believe that she was not only connected the John but also to his house on Meadows AV correct yes and you would see her interacting with the kids outside correct yes um she would be participating in family type activities with the kids outside yes and you'd see her enough that you assumed that she was living there correct yes and I believe you stated that you had known her or seen her for maybe about a year and a half or so is that a good estimate yes and in all the time that you saw her in the neighborhood or have any contact with her and John you never saw the two of them fight or argue correct no you never heard them fight or argue correct no and you had been out with them in a group setting a handful of times correct just a couple of times and during those times they always appeared to get along correct yes and you knew of no problems in their relationship correct no and you were particularly impressed with the time Karen spent with John's adopted children Jackson were you can you repeat that once more please you you were particularly you were impressed with the amount of time that Karen spent with John's children I didn't know the exact really amount of time that I mean she was there a lot yes she was play so yes I would assume that she spent a lot of time with them yes now on Friday January 28th uh you had plans with your sister-in-law Nicole correct yes you are close with Nicole yes I am you picked her up at her home in your car yes you drove her to the waterfall correct correct and the two of you went for dinner there yes yes uh your husband Chris came later yes Brian Higgins came later yes and you knew Brian Higgins correct yes St you all right thank you Mr no thank you R um I believe you testified you knew Brian Higgins at that time correct yes and how did you know him he is a friend of my brother-in-law and your brother-in-law would be Brian Albert correct yes and by the way when I when I just asked you that question uh about how you knew Brian Higgins and what his relationship was to Brian Albert you you didn't hesitate to say that they were friends correct correct it was very clear that they were friends correct correct in fact the two of them arrived at the bar together correct yes and it didn't surprise you to see the two of them together correct yeah Karen and John came sometime after that I believe shortly after that yes and they walked over to your table yes and then John kind of came up from behind you and uh sort of in a joking way dug his finger into your shoulder correct yes and essentially said you know you know what's up and that was about it and he went on he made a he said what's up and made a joke and and and and the joke was given the fact that you and your husband moved from the neighborhood they decided to hold a block party yes uh and John was the same jokester he always was correct correct yes and you had some contact with Karen uh while you were at the bar before you had to leave because of the migraine correct correct and she was just very bubbly that night correct correct that's just her personality as far as you could see correct as far as I knew yes um you know you didn't know her that well but that's how she always was correct correct and you left the waterfall at around 11:00 your best memory a little after 11: and it was a particularly bad migraine that night yes uh and the loud music didn't help you out at all not at all and you drove home yes now when you got home your son Colin was not there correct correct he was not out with you at the waterfall correct he was out that night correct yes and you knew that he stopped by your sister-in-law in Nicole's house quite a bit correct yes he's very close to Nicole and Brian's kids correct correct he's also very close to his aunt and uncle uh Brian Albert and Nicole Albert correct correct so you would have gotten home maybe shortly after 11:10 p.m. approximately around 11 yep around that and that was when you entered an empty house correct my son Dylan was home oh Dylan was home yes but Colin was not he was not and Colin did not come home at 11:30 correct correct he did not come home at 11:45 correct correct and when the clock turned midnight he still wasn't home correct correct um now at some point he uh your husband Chris came home yes you testified on direct examination that Chris came home at 1210 a.m. on January 29th that's what time I believe he did yes okay that 1210 a.m. time um did you discuss that precise time with anybody prior to taking the stand yesterday no was that coordinated with anybody such that your husband and you gave the same time at 12:10 a.m. no with the Court's permission I'd like to play the uh waterfall bu video I think it's exhibit 53 just that portion [Music] okay just have a moment you you've testified that the waterfall is very close to DNA Pizza correct correct um but your house on Maple Street is about a half mile away from the waterfall would you agree with that about that yes maybe a little less but about that all right would you agree it's a you know seven or eight minute walk home from the waterfall if you're walking I I realize you were driving but if somebody were walking it would be about seven or eight minutes maybe a minute or two less okay so six you would say six or seven minutes would be a better estimate to cover that half mile depends on how fast you walk yes and it was snowing that night correct correct uh the ground was a little bit slippery yes um if I could have the lights dimmed again U this is the exhibit I'd like to show you ma'am and if you pause for one second do you recognize what's depicted in that video that appear to be the waterfall yes okay uh and do you see the [Music] top do you see the time 12:13 a.m. yes uh okay if you can run that Mr bit pause it there um I am going to direct your do you see where it says ch3 yes you see the the time stamp up the top correct yes between those two markers on the video you're going to see somebody walking by I'd ask you to pay attention for the next you know six seconds or so stop do you recognize that person yes I believe it's my husband okay you can run that stop okay uh would you agree with me that your husband left the waterfall at about 12 13 and 46 seconds well yes I mean that's what it says on the screen okay so it was closer to 214 than to 210 would you agree with that 1214 you mean two you know what you're right um 1214 then 1210 yes that's what I'm seeing thank you uh so if if he's leaving at around 12:14 and by your testimony it would have taken him six he was walking home you knew that correct yes he didn't have a car that he did not and it if it took him six or seven minutes to get home uh and by the way let me strike that question uh you had said it take six or seven minutes did you factor in the fact that of the weather that night uh for your estimate about a six or seven minute walk jaction can you answer that question is that what you said yes I didn't factor in the way I I don't I don't know all right so you're your testimony be you don't know if it would have taken him a little bit longer or anybody anybody everyone walks at a different pace right but whatever Pace they walk at uh you given what you saw of the weather that night uh is it your testimony that maybe it would have taken a little bit longer than the the estimate because it could have okay but in any case let's leave it at 6 or 7 minutes that puts him your husband coming home at around 12:20 or 12:21 correct correct all right uh and that 1210 estimate that you had uh you made that estimate before having the benefit of the video correct correct now where were you within the house when your husband came home in my room upstairs in my bedroom all right and you share a bedroom with your husband yes all and when he when was the first time that you saw him within the house he came up to the bedroom okay you were in the bedroom and you see him appear in the bedroom correct did you hear the door open way down on the first floor yes okay and it would have taken him maybe about a minute to get upstairs it wasn't very long it wouldn't be very long no okay and when he got upstairs you noticed that he was in wet clothing correct yes yes he appeared to be cold yes uh and he uh he got undressed correct yes uh did he brush his teeth before bed I think he got right into bed okay so you didn't see him brush his teeth or wash up no uh and were you in the bed when he came into the bed to go to sleep I was sitting up in bed yes were you reading or watching TV I was just sitting up in bed praying for my headache to go away oh okay you still the migraine was still really bothering you and you were suffering at that point suffering I had a headache well yeah but a migraine headache I would imagine it was it was a headache but I took medicine and I was waiting for it to get better to kick in yes okay uh and that's sort of what you were concentrating on it's really kind of hard to read or watch TV or concentrate on anything when you have a migraine right okay yes um now you would agree with me that your husband Chris was asleep when Colin came home correct correct and as a mother you couldn't have gone to sleep until you knew your kids were home correct correct and Colin was the remaining child who was out there which when he came home that would given given you liced to go to sleep yes now at the time that uh Colin came home with Chris sleeping it's fair to say uh this was just an ordinary weekend night correct how do you well in other words you didn't know that anything tragic had occurred or was alleged to have occurred correct correct uh so it wasn't like you were paying attention to the clock at that point and recording your memories as best you could because you knew you'd be testifying later correct correct which also explains the 1210 estimate right I mean you're you're being asked about you know times that things occurred and it was just sort of an ordinary day right so it's difficult to pinpoint times correct correct okay now directing your attention to the next morning uh you missed a phone call from your best friend Jennifer mccab correct correct and you believe that phone call I think according to your memory yesterday came in at 5 55 p.m. correct I'm sorry 5:55 a.m. correct correct uh that was the time that you gave uh Mr L when he asked you the question on direct examination correct correct uh and you were you were able to recall that time nearly two years later correct yes uh but regarding the 67 phone calls between you and Courtney Proctor that happened after that um you're not able to recall any of those correct I just don't remember them all right in any case January 29th was your nephew Brian Albert Jr's birthday correct yes that's why you went to 34 Fairview at 8:30 in the morning correct yes and when you pulled into the driveway uh there was nothing unusual to you correct correct this was just your uh brother-in-law Brian and your sister-in-law Nicole's house with snow around correct yes uh there were no police on scene no there was no tent protecting the front lawn correct correct no crime scene tap stapled anywhere or taped anywhere correct correct um nobody appeared to be standing guard over the front yard correct correct you didn't see any Shard of glass right no did not um you didn't see 45 pieces of tail light strewn about the lawn correct correct in fact you didn't see any pieces of tail light correct I don't recall seeing anything and you didn't suspect that 34 fair viiew was a crime scene correct jaction sued there was nothing that prevented you from walking all over that front lawn correct correct it was still snowing out yes Brian Albert when you you approached the house he opened the door correct I approached the car not the house oh okay you approached whose car was it my nephew Brian's Brian in the driveway yes all right uh and then Brian Albert opened the door of the house the side door of the home yes all right so can I have exhibit eight please with the Court's permission yes [Applause] could we zoom in just a little bit that's [Music] good I so bad oh thank you you're welcome all right uh that that I'm highlighting now is the front door to the house correct yes and if we move along exhibit 8 to the right is that the side door yes and that's the door that Brian Albert appeared from yes and you were able to see him from the outside of the house correct yes and you were over to this area yes you recall was is it one of those two cars that's in exhibit 8 that you approached with the Dunkin Donuts I can't make out what the cars are okay uh but it was it was either one of those two cars or a car that was parked in one of those two places yes all right uh and then uh you went did you go in that side door to go into the house yes fair to say um that family has lived there for quite a while correct yes you knew that uh prior to Brian Albert and that's really bad form to block the jury I am so sorry it's good I didn't trip um the uh door that is the front door um having you know been familiar with that house for a long time you've gone in that front door before correct yes and you know that when you go in the front door of that house uh you come into a little fo area correct correct and then almost within arms distance to the left is the door to the basement correct walking in the front door arms distance to the left yes in other words you you you walk into the house yep and then the door to the basement going down to the basement is right there on the left correct that's incorrect to the left of the library where is the door to the basement you walk in the front door you step to the right walk a few steps towards the kitchen and the basement door is on the left before you enter the kitchen all right but the kitchen's off to the left correct no when you walk in the front door the library is on the left there's another room on the left okay so you walk in you immediately see a staircase in front of you yeah and to the left is the library right if you go to the right I'm sorry goad if you go to the right you can go into the part of the kitchen where the kitchen table is or you can not go to the right you can walk straight and as you're walking there's a door on the left and that's where the basement door is okay so I think we're getting to what I was getting at uh if you walk straight ahead there's a door to the left that goes down to the basement correct correct yes uh we can have the and when you were walking toward that side door uh you didn't see any emergency or police vehicles outside correct no I did not you didn't see any First Responders other than Brian Albert correct correct there were no lights flashing outside the house correct correct and inside you saw Nicole Albert yes Brian Albert yes Jennifer mccab yes Matt mccab yes and Brian Higgins correct yes how long did you spend at the house that morning I don't remember exactly maybe a half hour 45 minutes I I don't remember exactly and the Seven of you were discussing what had happened correct yes at some point it was decided that Jennifer mccab should contact Michael Len of the camb of the Canton Police correct objection I'll let if this witness knows independently can you repeat that once more please at some point it was decided among the seven of you that Jennifer mccave should contact Michael lank of the Canton Police Department I don't remember who exactly Jennifer decided yeah I don't remember exactly the discussion you knew Michael L correct yes and at 8:53 a.m. you sent to Jennifer mccab Michael Len's personal cell phone number correct correct um and did you then see Jennifer mccab delete that text message from you jaction I'll you were contacted by the Massachusetts State Police this year about your phone correct correct they left you a voicemail on March 21st of 2024 the state police yes about my telephone well they left your voicemail on March 21st of 2024 you've had contact with the state police this year yes um and they left you a second voicemail on March 25 and then called you again on March 28th yes um you told them that you were sick and you would speak to them on April 1st correct correct and then the state police called you on April 1st but you did not pick up do you recall that I do not they called you again that same day and you didn't respond correct I I don't recall um but you did learn that they had called your husband on April 1st looking for you correct for I don't recall all right after speaking with your husband you texted the Massachusetts State Police on April 1st correct I think around that I don't know the exact date all right and you finally met with the Massachusetts State Police on April 3rd of 2024 correct I would assume I don't know the exact date but yes and the uh during that meeting the the state police looked through your phone for contact that you would have had with Michael Pro correct correct um did they seize your phone no they did not did they tell you that they had a search warrant for your phone no they did not did they take it back saying that they had to give it to some experts to do an extraction objection sustain they just looked through it after you handed it to them correct correct and they gave it back yes now with regard to your contact with Karen on January 28th um it was clear to you that Karen did not appear to be under the influence correct correct you didn't see her stumbling correct correct you didn't see her sway correct she was not unbalanced no she was not slurring her words no she was not talking gibberish no she was engaging in normal conversation yes and she held the conversation perfectly fine yes she appeared to be under control correct yes she was affectionate with John that night Jack I didn't come in contact with them like that well the two of them certainly were not arguing no not that I saw you didn't see any tension between them correct no and I mean given your you know family's connection to law enforcement um you would not knowingly let someone drive a car if they were under the influence correct jaction um everyone appeared to be having a good time that night corre yes and that included John and Karen from what you could see correct for the 10 minutes I 10 15 minutes I was was there yes okay now after you left the waterfall it's fair to say that um you didn't know precisely where your son Colin was that night correct I knew where he was where was he he was at his friend Michael leonet he left Michael leonetti to stop to say happy birthday to my nephew Brian at 34 fa Road and you learned that from him correct yes all so you had learned that Colin was at 34 Fairview on January 29th of 2022 correct January 28th the FR so is it your testimony that you know that Colin left on Friday night as opposed to after midnight on January 29th I don't I don't understand what you're asking just what just occurred is I asked you uh whether you knew that your son Colin was at your sister-in-law Nicole's and your brother-in-law Brian Albert's house on January 29th and you just correct I'm sorry it was after I'm sorry it was after midnight so that's I got confused I apologize not a problem uh so the answer to my question is you learned that he was there on January 29th correct yes after midnight and you now know that that is the same house outside which John o'keef was found dead the next that morning correct yes I do um and one last question you uh were interviewed by Trooper Proctor and it's fair to say you never told him that Colin was there that correct I don't recall my interview I have no further questions thank you all right Mr R just briefly [Music] on morning Miss how good morning now with reference to uh you were asking a question about 67 calls over a period from January oh sorry February to September correct correct that's about 7 months is that right yes and roughly about 210 days or so yes um do you have other friends uh besides M Brock yes and uh versus some of your other friends as far as those phone calls 67 times over 210 days is that more so less so or on average with less so and at no point in time did you speak to miss proor that you call about this case or talk to Super proor outside of that interview correct and the interview that you have with super Proctor there was another troop of PR correct yes and you would just ask some questions about meeting with some other Troopers uh this year in 2024 correct correct fa to say none of those Troopers was a trooper Proctor correct correct that also wasn't the trooper that was with Trooper Proctor when he spoke to him correct and they asked you uh questions you had at least two interviews with them is that correct correct and you voluntarily went to those interviews yes you answered their questions yes they asked for your phone yes when I was sitting there they looked through my phone yes so they asked for your phone you provided your phone yes voluntarily nobody threatened you with a search one or anything like that [Music] no you asked some questions about timing and a prompt there there's no math that I'm asking in this but um you've had to walk outside when it's cold outside correct yes you tend to walk faster or slower when it's cold outside faster me personally when you went over to uh your in-law's house uh on the morning of January 29th to drop off donuts for your nephew uh you weren't expecting to go inside correct correct you weren't expecting to be standing around talking to people about a friend of yours uh potentially having died at that point uh on no I no nothing further may we approach okay you're actually complete your your testimonial result out it's complete thank right so that let's let the jur well first