so today we have S A Very uh good friend of andlaw that we had a nice long chat so you have been a counselor not a therapist again let's clarify that not a therapist but a counselor absolutely big difference big difference so let's just talk little bit about the difference in counseling and therapy little just tell me a gist of how both differ so depends upon the level of qualifications that you have I'm what you call a counseling psychologist I do not deal with any clinical cases because it is not allowed moreover it is not ethical to go ahead and deal with clinical cases clinical cases include any form of mental uh illnesses like your schizophrenia bipolar uh what I go ahead and do is generally just gra around the emotional uh challenges that we humans face on a day-to-day basis we normally are not uh licensed a license is only provided to the clinical psychologist with uh RCI credentials through the rehabilitation Council of India and uh the next is your from a psychologist a psychiatrist is from an mbbs background so if you're going to go to a hospital chances are you might find a lot of clinical psychologists and uh counseling psychologists we we just go ahead and work with you on your emotional regulation more okay good so uh this I wanted to do now as we discuss there are tons of places that people can find symptoms and how to find and to recognize stuff about themselves that's different now what let's discuss about how to how to how to be a better listener I mean how to be that person that friend when someone comes up to you and says that you know what I'm not feeling so I remember having this conversation around uh World mental uh men's mental health month and uh one very important thing which I feel is lacking is probably men as men we are unsure how to respond or react when another man comes to us with a set of problems or any kind of challenges that they are facing on a day-to-day basis they come up to us and went out whatever is going on in their mind we normally are taken a back for a second as you know normally if it's guys are like let's go have a drink and uh that one drink leads to another and another another and the topic gets completely deviated from what he was thinking as far as that's uh traditionally that's what has happened over the I think Millennial as well if you have to be very honest uh and I think deviate Dev so uh listening is a very important skill that helps us throughout our lifetime to be very honest I'm going to go ahead and just give you a gist of how things usually work in counseling listening is very important skill because we can find out a subtle things small things which are making a very big impact to the person's Uh current emotional situation as much as we pick up those very subtle small things or the actions that the person has taken or triggers anything can be caught when we are actively listening to a person when they climing up as far as men is men are concerned first and foremost don't do not be dicks I really wanted to use the another word but uh I would say don't be dicks when a person walks up to you and just says I want to talk to you about something that's going on in my life all you have to do is just say a no Su no drinks first sit talk find a nice quiet place where you will not be disturbed put your phone on silent give your undivided attention to that particular person when they are venting out or they stating whatever exactly are the issues that's going on second when you're listening once they complete a certain uh part of that particular narrative that they have or they of the situation that they're going through whatever youve understand in case if you haven't understood any part of it paraphrase and ask them more questions about it say if somebody walks up to me and says dude I'm feeling really low today I don't know why I would just go ahead and sit and listen okay can you tell me a little bit more about what's going on right now why do you feel this way and he say I don't know and you would come up with okay anything that happened recently that's put you off or you're having have you had any kind of emotional trouble at work or at home how are things at home how are things how are the relationships with your colleagues or relationships with your parents I will go ahead and probe in a little bit deeper to understand where is the root cause of all the issues okay as that give and take of the exchange of information is taking place that's when you realize that there is a lot to the issue sometimes then you act what meets the eye to be very honest uh so that listening part of it is something that men regardless they like it or not they have to listen they have to go ahead and put in the effort to listen I'll give you an example like this for example I now I had a friend I have still a good friend and obviously but yeah so I have a friend and uh he would always remain very sad and Stu he had a girlfriend then living in together he had a good job MH seems fine I just kept pestering at one point of what happened everything okay what happened now sometimes you have to be that person as well who asks because the other care about them and they are not willing to you know diverge it to you or talk talk about it to you or anybody else for that matter at all and I kept PR string and PR string suddenly one he start he he actually opened up and this was something that he had not told literally anybody in his life not his girlfriend not his to be wife no nobody he was abused as child this he had not told anybody okay that point it hit me that sometimes issues are not just what you see in front of you because what I used to think was okay maybe his uh job is not going well maybe is not successful he's not feeling he successful maybe that could be the reason maybe he's not happy in the relationship maybe he's not happy with his parents or something like that but it went down so deep that no matter how much happiness he had around him he just couldn't feel happy or energetic or stuff like that so because those things keep coming up in his mind over and over again exactly and that that's why there are very extreme don'ts when someone comes up to you to talk about the don't is don't judge first of all absolutely Thum rule Thum rule Thum rule don't judge I would say that yeah go ahead goad uh being judgmental is what has stigmatized entire men from speaking up so first is don't judge second I believe is don't downplay also gone through the no everyone's experience is different everyone's experience is different everyone has gone through the same thing maybe they have gone through the same thing but just because how their uh heads are how their hearts are they felt it in a very different we both will deal with it very differently and we will both will feel it very differently so don't downplay third is don't start saying and give the same advice of what you did and uh because everything for everybody something else Works maybe it work for you absolutely after only asking a lot of questions after going through everything like uh you know after finding out the reason then only you can give some advice and obvious the first advice is always to go to therapy from my end from my end I always urge people to go to therapy absolutely so the thing is with us is we don't know how to deal with it all of us are in more of this problem solving mode when a person comes with you with a set of problems the first and foremost thing that you would try to go ahead and think how can I solve this problem for I mean we are being ourselves but we conditioned in such a way that we're problem solvers so we want to go go ahead and solve the problem immediately and instantly we are living in this instant noodles generation where uh everything is snap of a finger you order something it's 10 minutes it's in likewise with our problems as well we are feeling that you know what problems should be solved instantaneously instant gratification is what we call it we want to go ahead and get validated instantly we want problems to be solved instantly we want to just to let give a very brief way I want to ask you a first question how would you like me to go ahead and put this conversation completely going forward do you want me to be absolute brutal or do you want me to sugarcoat the entire thing no no don't sugarcoat don't sugar I all right so one yes Instagram is a it's a death trap let me be very honest in terms of social media in terms of a lot of things restrict yourself I'm telling you not to go ahead and consume it go ahead and watch it but don't believe everything that you see on it secondly therapy is is definitely a must if you feel that there is something that you need you feel something is wrong with you go to a doctor it's as simple as if you get a bloody fever you would go to a doctor you would medicate yourself with a paracetamol or AO similarly if you find that you are not in the right space of mind if you're getting irritated if you're getting spaced out you don't know what the hell you're doing go one session can make a whole world of a difference I'm not telling you to go ahead and continue the entire session like go for 10 15 20 sessions I'm telling just go give that one session a shot where you go ahead and get a bit bit of perspective to yourself second uh more thirdly uh this entire project what you have here shra it's amazing platform for men to go ahead and understand or just mental health in general to go ahead and understand but I'm focusing today more on how to go ahead and listen how to go ahead and respond to people how to be not to be a dick and how to be a better person we see that with men there is quite a lot of things one that godamn listening skills it's like a monkey playing a drums in our head every time somebody talks to us it's like we'll be spaced out we'll be just completely zoned out and we'll it's as if there's a monkey playing drums somewhere nearby you you just zoned out and you're so interested that especially especially if it's something related to emotions or stuff like that absolutely so it's like that barrier that we have built we don't want to because is it brings out the worst in us it's our inside head our our subconscious telling bloody hell I don't want to listen to this I don't want to get triggered by these things uh so we don't want uh if I have to start from scratch one stop being dicks when somebody somebody comes up to you and says that they want to V out stop being dicks don't take them out for a drink don't take them for a sua or a chai just go ahead and sit with them quietly with give your undivided attention to them and ask what's going on second you ask a questions when they are speaking let them speak a little bit if you are uh confused or if you're if this if you're not able to catch up with what they saying stop them ask them more about what exactly it is if they stressing on certain things like I felt so frustrated when she did this I felt so frustrated when they did this ask them why ask them why why is that frustration that why why are they getting that thoughts into their head when somebody speak you know there was this very funny thing of when you see a certain person you just get irritated for no bloody God Dam reason you just see them existing on their own you just see them man [ __ ] I don't like this guy uh it's your deeper it's your head there's something that has gone wrong there's something of the traits or the behaviors that he's displaying that you have been wronged with in the past it's your brain telling you that so try to figure it out similarly although you don't like a person especially being men we are conditioned to be very masculine we are conditioned to be very stubborn strong being very being that protect a guardian like those men from 300 going like this is Sparta and going ahead and kicking the buckets everywhere we don't want to do that these days because uh one the toxic masculinity what we are displaying is one of the main root causes of mental health I'm tell I'm not telling you don't go completely don't be masculine at all be feminine I'm telling you just draw a little bit of boundary as far as being very masculine is concerned okay not every man this especially with this generation not everybody can take that level of being a hardcore male that hardcore male is not accepted by Society it's not accepted by anybody these days and there a lot of people who need our help let's look into the flip side of things you can be a very strong independent person if there's a weaker person right next to you would you go ahead and kick him and tell he's weak and he keep kicking him or would you actually go ahead and help him reach where he is if he's comfortable leave it if he's not if he wants if he's looking up to you you don't make fun of him you go ahead and help him understand where exactly is going wrong how go ahead and give a deeper perspective of things to him and his own problems uh I think I got a little bit deviated but listening second is stop being dick uh first is stop being dicks listen actively third non-judgmental men are perhaps the epitome of being judgmental let me be honest I am judgmental myself while it comes to my friends whom I know if they go ahead and do something really stupid I be like dude this is so not you how could you do something like this the first thought that comes into our mind when it's with our close friends right don't do that if somebody has done something wrong go ahead accept it go go ahead and listen to The Reason go ahead and understand the entire thing they're no bad people they're just bad situations behind them non-judgmental the fourth one is going ahead and being more empathetic I think that word is thrown around a lot these days but when you truly want to help a person don't sympathize with them empathize with them give them that little bit of hearing and help them Reach to the conclusion I'm not telling you just because your friend made a bad bet you go ahead and cover for your his losses what I'm telling you is listen to him go ahead where did it all go wrong go ahead and make him understand probably give him some better Insight because this talking back and forth when we have a very open conversation and one person is listening and asking for more and more question the other person when he's speaking he'll suddenly get that eony in his mind ah this is where I went wrong this is where I [ __ ] up so these are the kind of things that we need to go ahead and Foster in in the entire mental wealth uh mental health culture I would say for your mental wealth go ahead and Foster this mental health culture don't be judgmental stop being dicks listen and go ahead and uh be empathetic don't be sympathetic to people be empathetic as simple as for men personal experience wise I'd say that sympathy sometimes works in a negative way absolutely they don't like that they don't like that they don't like people feeling sorry for them yes yes so instead be empathetic just show them show show by actions for example if uh your friend is making a Bad Bet continuously by gambling maybe say gambling y urge them to stop incentivize something like that whatever absolutely and pushes them away from whatever bad experiences or whatever the bad triggers for absolutely uh moreover see this entire uh generation I would say what we are going through right now we are seeing there three there have been about three generations from the '90s so Millennials genzies Alpha we I think we are at Alpha and uh something else I've lost track but but you know what what's one common characteristics in most of these Generations that I've noticed uh I'm not talking like a boomer here but I'm just telling us General observation most of these guys are not bad they just don't know what to do they have an information overload in their head they're perhaps the best generation as far as being very resilient towards what they learn they can quickly adapt to things they are very resilient in getting dusting up getting up and start working again but the process that they go through is very chaotic for them it's in a very self-destructive mode once they fall down they're in a very self-destructive path but they'll just get up again and they'll just move on one thing which very evidently that I've noticed with them is they lack love I'm not sure how I'm not sure is it to do the parents give them the love but they don't sense they don't have that genuine love they don't have genuine connections with their friends uh I'd say the 80s and the 90s kids or even earlier on you see that the bonds just keep getting stronger the years you go behind You' see that the bonds were something very sacred if it's a friendship that they have developed over childhood or college or at work they stay friends forever even even if the somebody even if the P person passes away there'll be an immediate family member notifying the other person the friend stating that okay this so and so passed away uh absolutely absolutely so I'll give one example of my personal friendship like this now there's a college friend of mine still very close friends we talk maybe once a year or twice a year we have made sure that we go at least one trip a year so we a group of now the thing is that this particular friend and me politically we are on the like totally on the opposite extreme ends okay politics and Y whenever we are discussing politics it gets to such an extent sometimes that we could kill each other absolutely that's always been there in every friends group yeah but then whenever we need help or we need someone to talk to or we need to just you know share happiness share some something share something that good something good that has happened with us these are the people that come to our head this is the guy that the this group of friends is who comes to my head the first oh I bought a new bike photo he just he just had a kid he just became a dad a few months back first thing he did was put in a photo on the group hey Bo see that's what I would say uh modern uh as far as the modern generation is concerned I think that's what they're lacking they just lack genuine connect they're a very good generation they're more advanced than all of us together and they say probably their way ahead where we were as kids and where they are when they were kids they're way ahead but genuine connectedness it's always that very uh use and throw when I need a person I would go ahead and use them when I don't want them when and I'm good off they just ignore them but that sense of being in that particular way even as far as relationships are concerned people would just love to go ahead and uh uh go for date and ditch culture one night stands all of these cultures which put together here the whole if you're looking at the entire thing they just don't know what they're doing at the end of the day they're trying to search for something which they have absolutely no answer to they don't know who they themselves are very first they don't know an they don't have an understanding of themselves uh all of us have been through this let me be honest even I went through that particular phase I had absolutely no idea what I was doing with life I just stopped after my bachelor's degree and it took me a decade to go ahead and just enroll myself to a master's degree and get get it done with and after that the entire learning process been so continuous and it's been so Dynamic I never thought if I had applied myself back in those days I would have been in a much better position as far as helping people would have concerned so these things that particular break to be very honest which I had was because I had a very Downstream in my life as well and uh that given point of time the only thing that I was searching for is one person that I could sit with and speak my heart out I didn't want an answer I didn't want I never wanted any kind of a resolution I just wanted to go ahead head and get things off my chest and I wanted the person to validate what emotions I'm going through is okay and there is always a way to figure things out because at that moment you can't not all of us are comfortable going and talking to our parents not our elders or anybody within the family strata to go ahead and went certain things out go ahead and open up so these are the things which we uh have to De because a friend is something that anybody will regardless man or woman at the end of the day a friend will know more about us than our actual biological parents do they know everything whatever we get we have been through what we are up to and what we are capable of as well a friend is more of that person who would know what exactly is going on with you so if you have a friend you're seeing subtle signs of him being zoned out completely lacking understanding or very disinterested in things all of a sudden is getting really irritated sit down and just talk to them they will not open up as far as men are concerned they will definitely not open up the first you have to first instance 9 of time never no you just give them the reassurance if you want I'm here to talk to you I will not judge you whatever you say the most important thing after everything is done whatever you stay say will stay between both of us it will not go out to anybody and one thing I want to everyone who will be watching this is that let's not just do it in the month of June as a men's month sub suddenly oh let's do this nowal no let's talk about it no no you have to do it all year around matter what month what day or whatever it is the moment you see someone who you feel maybe is suffering or maybe is not how they used to be how they used to behave ask just ask just ask just ask genuinely with genuinity go ahead and ask is everything all right you don't have to do it in a group take that person aside and ask is everything all right see I'm to be honest uh not much of a very open therapist I believe in a very different way as far as uh counseling or therapy is concerned I have my own uh thoughts and I have my own approaches but one approach which always works is take the person aside or invite them to a separate session sit down in a coffee shop or do you want to sit down in a in a separate space while you're driving take them out for a long drive especially men they tend to open up go for a bike ride together it even works even more better being a biker myself my friends have opened up to me or usually normally I don't counsel my friends I just sit and I listen to them and I direct them and if you find anybody that is beyond emotional help from your end if you feel this is too much that I cannot help urge them or go ahead and keep providing that option to go ahead and seek help therapists are around the corner they are qualified professionals who can do a much much much better Justice to them than what we are doing as well but you have to take up the initiative from the very start to go ahead and be with them through the entire process just because you drop them off a therapy doesn't mean that you don't go through it with them support them be there with them you sit outside if it's it's fine I've seen personally I've seen I I have sat down with my friends I don't counsel them because it's heavily unethical to counsel your friends and family what I do is I redirect them to the right person I sit there outside I don't ask the other therapist what he said what he did because they even they wouldn't share but just to show us of support I will go ahead and sit down with them there if they want me inside the room I will sit with them if they don't want me inside the room I will sit outside but I will ensure that I give that one hour or that 45 to 50 minutes of therapy whatever is happening there going through I ensure that I sit outside just to ensure that give him that feeling of security that there are people who care for me there are people who genuinely want to help me and don't do these things with an agenda in mind it is very it'll be shown it'll be very cleanly seen through your face don't do it with agenda do it with that wholeheartedness you don't have to help everybody I'm just telling just one person will make a whole world of a difference you don't have to save everybody you're not going to be everybody's savior sometimes we need to go ahead and put on our oxygen mask first before we help everybody else exactly exactly exactly there it is because with all our Journeys with your journey and my journey I think I found myself very recently that finding so once I found myself I understood what I need to what I want to there a need and want what I need to do is something and what I want to do is something so this is something that I wanted to do that is you need to have a deeper connect with yourself sit with yourselves understand yourself understand the triggers understand what is stopping you from doing it put it all down you know what if you put it put your problems down on a piece of paper 80% of the p uh problems usually have solutions for them I always tell put four quadrants in a paper just draw four lines left right bottom two boxes go ahead and put out the things that you can do immediately go out the things that you can do within the next week go ahead and do uh write down the things what you can do next month and go ahead and do what you want to your long-term things what you want to do you put that down you want to figure things out it's much easier similar way if you want to understand what's going on with your life the similar quadrants work yeah one one one line by this uh line by Charlie chap I really love he said it somewhere back he said life is a tragedy of close but a com absolutely from absolutely yeah if you look so when you pen it down when you are talking to other people about it when you are just talking to yourself as well it's uh it's very diff different but when you're talking to somebody else about it and when you're writing it down maybe then you realize huh problems there is there is problems but maybe they're not as how do I say this as big as I feel them to be right now absolutely so uh one very good example which I uh saw or I would say some somebody explained this to me in very nice way if you keep your problems right in front of your eyes for example if I'm keeping this mouse right in front of my eyes the only thing that I see is the mouse I don't see the larger picture or if I start moving the mouse away I see more things around me I see that right now I'm sitting in my balcony I see the trees I see everything I see my balcony railings everything what is right in front of me but if I'm going to go ahead and put one problem right in front of me with a horse blind telling that this is the only problem that I have I'm not looking at things uh that becomes very difficult so that's where therapy comes therapy is going to help you disassociate yourself with the problems it's going to help you we are not going to help you find the solution you're going to be finding the solution by yourself by having a better understanding of yourself exactly so if you're sitting for a counseling session if you're going to go ahead and sit they're not going to to help you solve your problems rather in fact they're going to be making you understand what the deeper cause of the problem is and they will help you similarly as a friend the basic thing you can do is when there is a problem in front of your friend you go ahead and understand the problem don't give him a solution yes ask more questions about the problem how it may be irritating it will they'll get really annoyed but paraphrase and tell do you think you did this was this okay by you do you normally react like this was this okay they say no especially with the heated arguments that they have had and they come very frustrated and sit you think it was okay that you did this the first you immediately ask that they'll be very defensive and they'll be like no no no no I was right what I did was right but when you talk about the problem understand what exactly happened the entire context behind it the entire background behind it and slowly you just go ahead and ask were you in the right there in a very different way what do you feel what do you think if they are emotionally sensible people they would come to an understanding if they have done something wrong there that they were like you know what I feel that I could have handled the situation much happens happens no issues so yes so when I started sharing and when I started sharing my thoughts with people and then suddenly it gave them the courage to okay I'm not the only one it's not a stigma true true that stigma that taboo the taboo around mental health that yes mental health issue mental is oh that is the biggest stigma that I have come across that is perhaps the most common thing that you would be hearing uh if you tell you have a mental illness the first thing that puggle you say that you have anxiety P you say you have depression p and one other thing is uh that comes from a lot of people of Our Generation ' 80s '90s and 70s well 100% factory reset yeah the number of men that are dying by Suicide is every day that is a very different story from what these people have inited true so post pandemic as well if you noticed there's a lot of people who have uh come out with their uh I would say not with their issues in general as far as mental health is concerned there could be their emotional issues could be their coping mechanisms everything is just out there in the open right now but uh it is still a taboo to talk about mental uh health in our society today because it's something not very generally discussed it has not been normalized because if you normalize certain things that's when things become more comfortable people are more comfortable discussing or speaking about it instead what happens is like I said earlier if I say that I have something to went out or I have something to get off my chest most important thing boys would do is let's go for a drink let's go for a smoke yeah and the entire topic gets deviated sometimes when we we have so deep in our thoughts and we go ahead and V out or we go ahead and tell out what exactly is going on with our lives we feel even the entire situation gets downplayed hey man everything is happens for a reason uh so it's still not we haven't reached a point in especially in our society where uh it's completely normalized but I'm seeing very positive progress as far as let's say even organizations taking initiatives to go ahead and set up uh their Employee Assistance programs could be that lot of people talk about these topics in general about sadness about depression about grief all of these things are slowly coming out in the open so they're slowly craw crawling is what I would say I won't say even climbing they're slowly creeping and crawling out they're slowly coming out uh as far as you getting mental health uh advice is concerned please do it from qualified professional now I honestly post uh my masters as well and post a lot of certifications as well trust me even if I have to go ahead and sit with the client down uh in general I don't counsel I don't take it up as a profession I do it more of a service if there's somebody that needs help I go ahead and sit down with them I go ahead and understand if it's something out of my capabilities to help that person I don't take it up as a challenge rather I would say I would go ahead and gently route them to the right person uh to go ahead and seek help because I cannot play God here it's it's somebody's life at play uh you don't want to go ahead and be the destroyer of somebody's life just because you wanted to experiment something with them right seeking help will be one of the most difficult decisions that you will take as a man or anybody see in a man's like how a woman's life is not that easy a man's life is also not that easy right there are a lot of societal expectations from a man as far as a man is concerned he has to be the bread winner has to be a provider he has to be that emotional support to the family to the all the people around in his family he is the one who supposed to go ahead and be very assertive strong we'll have to take the wisest decisions so pretty much everything is just uh lying on him it's everything is like a it's like a boulder on his shoulders lot of expectations with a lack of uh appreciation absolutely it's a thankless job being a man I I'm not uh not to go ahead and uh downplay women as well I'm not going to go ahead and do that because I've seen both sides of the coin it's equally tough yeah AB it's equally tough and I feel so bad for uh women as well as far as their expectations are concerned it is still we are not coming out of that uh mindset that women are supposed to be in a certain place equal to men physically we are stronger but emotionally they are more resilient let me be very very clear with you on this the amount of resilience women show as far as emotional resilience is concerned men are not reach that space because we we just not conditioned in that way we are conditioned to bottle up stand up strong and go about our work but emotional resiliency is something that takes we tend to bottle up women don't bottle up much we are not even allowed to like in a certain sense we are not even allowed to process our emotions because the moment you process you cry or you tantrum you're considered weak you're considered weak most of the male most of the male uh I would say emotions come out in the form of anger y if you have noticed that anger is one second is uh addictions their frustrations lead them to have addictions let it be any form of addiction let it be alcohol drug use could be pornography gambling all of these are addictions because there's a deeper emotional uh reason for it there's something that we need to fix within themselves we can't help them with that unless and until they come out and they speak to us and that coming out stating that I have a genuine problem let it be uh alcoholism if you are a person who needs alcohol to survive every single day do you think or do you feel that it's more of a coping mechanism that you're relying on right now because it's giving you that particular thought Clarity could be that relaxation mode it's definitely an addiction because you don't have any other form to go ahead and relax unwind or to think a lot of us smoke because uh we feel that at any given point of time it helps us relax it uh I personally am in the stage of quitting but uh it's it's a very tough it's a very tough way to go about it smoke especially nicotine cessation is very challenging but if I if I understand the deep root cause for it there is a reason for it and and I being I have personally sat down with the therapist to understand and they said that you know what this is something that you have to take a conscious decision as far as as uh far as we are concerned we are happy that you're here and you're telling us that you have a problem but we need to sit down with you to understand what is the reason that you feel that smoking is the only way out to go ahead and think to go ahead and relax is there any other Alternatives that you have tried so they tried to go ahead and D dig in deep deer and at one given point of time in that session I suddenly had that thought Clarity in reality it's just become a conditioning that I'm used to if something goes wrong if I have a heated argument at work or if I say if I have a lot of stress at work I immediately go and light one up because I've conditioned myself to that similarly men are conditioned creatures believe it or not we are all conditioned creatures of society there's a lot of expectations like you said we are conditioned to those expectations there is a certain way a man will have to be that is the first false narrative that we need to go ahead and bring down you are allowed to be vulnerable you are allowed to be weak because there is no point of you standing strong when your heart says that you really need to go ahead and let one out you need to go ahead and let those tear roll out you need to and like I said it's not easy it's not easy but for the greater good for yourself if you feel down seek immediate help there's a very clean distinguish between sadness and depression a lot of us don't understand that sadness is temporary depression is something lasting if you see any of these symptoms lasting for more than two to three weeks seek help immediately that one small session that one session that you sit with a therapist can go ahead and avoid a longterm effect on your entire mental process your emotional process can be even your physical there is a connection between your physic uh your brain as well as your body you can avoid all of that if you genuinely seek help so I want to know so I know that you have had similar experience es so so tell me what exactly are your thoughts around this addiction wise not Addiction in general but as far as mental health and men are concerned uh I understand that you were about to say something but I think I just uh I was speaking there for a second I'm sorry I zoned out happens happens no worries it happens to me I'm really sorry about that I zone out sometimes Z out out of my own conversation sometimes I'm speaking I'm speaking I'm speaking and I've zoned out of out of what I'm what I am speaking about right that happens to a lot of us yeah so the thing about mental health I mean I I've been saying this for a long time I've been thinking about this for a long time uh now how I can urge people men especially know that's do how I can urge them to speak out about it or feel things start feeling and how I tell people to start tackling it why why when they ask why should I do this why should I why should I start acting just because of the same narrative that you have been telling yourself for long I need to be strong I need to be the provider now you are a provider you are functioning you think you are functioning at 100% MH but there is this part of you that is just not functioning right 10% 20% 30% whatever part of it it is and this part is growing slowly until it consumes everything and then you take that last step that's what happens to that's what I've seen happen lot of right so working on that little part that's holding you back I personally work on it because I felt that this little part myself is holding me back from realizing my full potential true I can do much more I can be better at things that I'm doing I can put in lot of lot more time and effort and uh mental space into the things that I want to do cre my job B video editing or whatever I want but there is this small part of me that's stopping myself from doing right so I wanted to get heal that part of me and realize my full potential so if you if someone wants to look at it from that point of view that is also a very valid point of that yes for your own for your family's s for your children's s for your parents s do it for them if you don't want to do it for yourself okay do it for them then it will help you be a better son be a better uh father be a better husb husband at the end of the day because when these mental health issues crop up you start disconnecting from your family and from your why trouble them especially People Like Us who are empath like people like me who are empaths who feel what the other one is feeling we start disconnecting ourselves from people close to us the moment we realize that you know what I have something something going on here or something going on in here we start disconnecting because we just don't want to put what we are going through on others true that's where the friend comes that's where that that's where you need to hear that that that's where you need to realize that yes I need to heal myself so I can be the perfect provider that I can be see if they are good friends first and foremost if they are good friends they will never judge you they would be there by yourself AB they would go ahead and give you give you one on their back and they' say get help second what you said was very true if you're not going to do it for yourself do it for the people around you because your mental health issues or your emotional uh I would say your emotional issues will not just affect you but all of the people around you exactly right so uh one such instant I think while you were saying about one small if you're working at at if you're at 100% I just remember this small uh analogy it's what my mechanic told so you know if you're a Royal Enfield owner you definitely know the tapet noise that comes on the bikes right you keep you keep ignoring the tapet noise for a long time what's going to happen your engine is going to go for a toss someday or the other someday or the other similarly your mental health the small triggers the small thoughts exactly don't let it build up it may look very normal now you'll be like okay as long as I'm functioning I can just go ahead and move on but when the day comes when you want yourself or you want to be at 100% and you're not that will be the biggest disappointment for you and when you ignore these small signs it leads to something much bigger let's talk about it from success point of view people are running after success now right half of half of being successful is just showing up yep now severe depression and anxiety that I have but I had and I'm on the process of healing stops me stops me from even getting out of bed stops me from getting out of my chair overthinking I'm not even showing up I'm not doing that first half of being successful that's the point I realize I need to heal this part of myself so that I start showing up at least true right now everyone has their own ways of healing everyone will find their way of healing I found it in motorcycling so this is one that's why I wanted to show this part the motorcycling is a my wife is here so I I I started feeling yes let's let's get this part out in the world motorcycling because lot of people I I kept seeing this motorcycling is therapy motorcycling is therapy motorcycling isy but how it is it is exactly nobody saying why how do you feel how did you feel that yes motorcycling is therap so I wanted to get it out there that this is my story okay I started doing this and I found out that yes motorcycling is part of therapy and this is my proof that motorcycling is therapy now you find yeah I want to ask one question if anybody here has the answer for that regardless you or any of you why do you write I think that's the question which has been lingering on every motorcyclist head anybody who rides the biggest question why do you ride I have the answer answer for it for myself but what about the others so I'll tell you when you ride normally when you wear that helmet when you're listening to music in that helmet or you're just riding in the highway you're with yourself and your thoughts right how much many of you here actually have a train of thoughts train of thoughts which just keep coming by and going going going you're trying to focus on the road at the same time your thoughts are just keeping replaying in the head they keep looping you in something bad that might have happened something that you wish better but most of these thoughts are around our own ourselves what we did wrong what we could have done better what we wish our life I always have this very big imagination when I'm riding while I'm when you're on the highway you know that the road is empty you're just riding and suddenly you'll be stuck in this uh small zone out Zone in most of the accidents also happen that way so please be careful uh bring your senses back to the road uh but you would say that what if I had have done this in the past my life would have been much better right now you you would have noticed I want you to guys to make a conscious effort of your thoughts when you're riding this time around when you're touring or anything just imagine what's going on just go ahead and observe the thoughts around your head you would be very surprised for me it's opposite actually I thoughts yeah no my brain shuts down shuts down completely blank out yeah all blank out the only thing that I feel is like that's why motorcycling works for me beauti it's my meditation if I'm riding to work during those 15 minutes of come 20 15 20 minutes of come nothing else matters at that point it's just me my bike the road and the music that's all no thoughts about what what I'm going to go to work and do whether I have to call a nurse so I work in healthcare whether I have to call a nurse or have to do this PCH what do what do I have to do during the day no I decide that when I'm at home when I'm riding to work nothing else matters literally there's nothing even when I'm that's why I love going on solo trips I love going on solo trips be it long trips be it short trip I love going on solo trips because at that point of time it's just me my bike now when I'm taking those pauses between right like when I take those rest stop bit stops that's when I'll be sitting with a chai and or maybe food in my hand in front of me and then I'll will be thinking then I have Clarity of thought thoughts are going everywhere like I said I D so I have 10 different thoughts even now there we are having this discussion but there are three other conversations going on in the back of my head about different different topics automatically that's quite Comm happens I just can't help it it's there ADHD is something that it happens and I just can't help it so that's why motorcycling works for me so beautifully because at that point of time I have to take control of that's why I keep pushing myself also when I'm writing okay I try to keep going faster I try to keep keep add more angle to my leans and stuff because at that point I so invested in doing that thing everything else shuts down in my head those background voices asking me whether you are successful one voice is asking is this even now there's one voice asking me is this worth it why am I spending two three hours of my time that's there's another voice saying voice saying one more voice saying this is what going on in this small area right now yep small area yeah but when I'm motorcycling everything is shut down it's mute everyone is on mute focusing only on how to stay alive and making sure that I that this [ __ ] body reaches home on time so I like I said I started observing these stain of thoughts when because um that one question why we ride came to me a bit later I was just randomly thinking then uh I started getting into biking very very rigorously I would say very uh religiously was from 2018 when I started experiencing these short break RS uhhuh and uh I the only keep thing that used to pop up in my mind is I shouldn't crash I shouldn't crash but once you got that little level of skills that you required to tour started pushing the kilometers a little bit long long longer longer longer we did a go quite a few times from Bangalore and uh the road is absolutely amazing but you tend to get hypnotized with that Highway especially while you're riding uh in the mid uh Sunny afternoons you see the entire road going wavy that happens quite a lot but what I observed tip I'll give you I personally when I planning rides I keep my highways to a minimum as minimum as possible straight highways I'll take the longer route I'll take interal Village routs hearts and whatnot I'll keep my high always okay because are the only place that people tend to get sleepy that's you will never get sleep highway hypnosis yeah highway hypnosis that's what we call it because more that's when you get that micro sleep for a second pink and then you'll be ending up in you'll be in the hospital bed with your hands and legs on a stretcher so uh this is probably what usually happen but I started observing my thoughts what exactly were happening what am I thinking is what I wanted to know why do these thoughts only come when I ride the bike but at the end of the ride you have so much thought L Clarity like you say you have so much Clarity when you reach your destination you feel like a very new person you feel accomplished you feel successful what I'm asking everybody to do is on a daily basis why not keep a track of those thoughts right them those thoughts that small thoughts what is running in your head try to know what exactly why is that particular thought coming in your head in the first place if it's something very pressing it keeps coming back and forth back and forth back and forth It's it's like an SOS in your head it's telling you to give importance to it and uh the brain nobody understands the complete functioning of the brain we all are I would say I would need to read a lot lot lot lot more than what I have knowledge right nows I need more information but uh if you keep a thought if you keep a track of your thoughts normally it gives you an understanding if you need help and I think the best way to keep track of thoughts is to write them down absolutely you're journaling them there's nothing like it keeps telling me about it and I started following it and it helps a lot right now this my head is a lot more clearer whenever I get thoughts matter for me that matter I always at the end of the day or somewhere I have this small red diary that I keep carrying around everywhere I always J down small di be it anything be it a nice idea that I got for a maybe a video reason maybe it's something that's troubling me maybe it's something that I have to do in the future and instead of remembering I just not it down so see is my whole life like I said earlier if you write down your problems if you write down your emotions 80% of the answers are right there right it's right in front of you go ahead Let It Be Pro even let it be ideas like you said just right now you write it down something much much much much better would come out of it it's just that keeping a track of these things so if you're journaling if you're going to go ahead and I'm not telling you to write down your emotions how you feel and everything like how a therapist would tell you but if you are not inclined to therapy and you need to know what is going on with you keep a track of your thoughts write them down for a few days I'm not telling you to just do it for a week and Let It Go I want you to observe your thoughts for a week not write it down complet but what is that one repeative thoughts a few repeative thoughts that keep coming in your head what is troubling you so much that is something that you need to understand you deserve to know what why those thoughts are coming up right so if you get a train of those thoughts if you go ahead and get a track and you know what those train of thoughts are you can probably be in a better place to go ahead and understand yourself okay this is what exactly is going on with me I need to go ahead and invest my time a little bit more or I need to go ahead and put in a little bit more efforts to understand why this is happening and probably I'll have a solution for it and trust me when when you accomplish when you you go ahead and complete something right which you start let it be even a ride when you start off with the ride you start off with the complete J if it's a long ride halfway through you'll be like man I just want to reach the destination you'd be so tired but when you reach the destination all of a sudden your energy is all back and you'd be just ready to go ahead and oh man I just achieved something you'd feel that sense of accomplishments when you reach that particular destination right there right at the gate You' be like hell yeah baby I've just done this yes so every riter would relate to this every riter let it be a riter or the billion especially the billion they be like I just want this to end so he let it be a rider or a Pion that that sense of accomplishment that happiness what you're feeling is your mind telling you that you have achieved something yep and if you feel that your problems or if you're going to go ahead and note down your emotions your problems everything is journaled if you try to go ahead and find a solution for it in a similar way that's the same level of happiness and a feeling of accomplishment that you will feel most of your problems are self-created in your head that's why I asked you do I have to sugar coat this or do I have to go ahead and be very uh blunt about it your problems half of your problems are just created in your head if you have a track of things if you have a track of those thoughts you can slowly start eliminating them which will give you much more or I would say more clarity not just with yourself but with your entire life it's your entire life there at your hands you're creating the problem you can definitely create a solution for it as well or find a solution for it as dismissing those thoughts because absolutely yeah initially how it happened was I started getting these uhal thoughts I realize that I have been getting them for a long time and I used to dismiss them right I would dismiss them mhm I at certain point of time I started uh accepting this is my brain my thoughts why are these thoughts and that that's when I started on the Journey of starting on the Journey of finding out about myself why am I thinking this and then at the end of the day about how to solve it all right problem that came to us it was a problem for me I shouldn't because I had a job I had a good relationship I had Parents I had everything in a way normal person would just be happy with then why am I the feeling of emptiness yeah normal person would yeah normally people when you that's what people aim for right family good normal being even after running after a good paying job when I got that still I'm getting those thoughts mhm why when I have everything that I at one point of time uh you know I wished for I have all those things with me still am I still why am I having these thoughts and that point of time I realized no I have to pay Heed These thoughts and then once I started paying heed I found out the root cause like you said train of thought the train of thought MH why is it starting you need to find out maybe you can find out by yourself you can go to therapist you can go to your friend you can talk about it Write About It Whatever helps whatever helps Find Your Way absolutely y best way obviously the quickest way is therapist most of the time most the the Qui is therapist because they have a guided pathway for you they are able to lay a guided pathway for you you have to walk at yourself at the end of the day yes but they won't lie the path for you as well to be very honest help they'll make you build your own path yes yes they make you build your own path they'll make you walk your own path the only thing they know is yeah they how to go ahead and for you yes yes they just know how to go ahead and make you build that path they're just like your instruction manual they will just go ahead and tell you what you have to do at the end of the day you are the one who's going to end up building that road you're the one who's going to be walking that roader they show you yes this is this is you can do it now you do it yourself and they will be by and the only thing they do is they'll be by your side they'll be by your side if you're going wrong somewhere they'll help you get back on track absolutely if you're their job is to just go ahead and be there with you to ensure that you achieve what you really want to okay what exactly are you Desiring what exactly do you want they're going to go ahead and help you formulate a plan to go ahead and get that by yourself they're not going to go ahead and provide you Solutions and if they are providing you Solutions instantaneously I would say run away from them the first meeting itself if they are saying that you know this is a solution run run like there's no other place to run just run find a way and just run uh see most of the there's another problem which we have uh noticed here in this current uh day is a lot of them are not very experienced to handle certain cases for one example I uh I predominantly work with suicide prevention okay but if it comes to other forms of marital counseling or relationship counseling I'm very bad at it it's something of a skill that I have to develop I need more exposure to it I need probably mentor to go ahead and uh show me the way how things are done most of our uh most of the therapists as well right they're not actually accredited they haven't studied they just go through they Advocates i' be honest they're Advocates which is a very good thing but do they have the required skill sets to help a person I doubt I doubt that because you need to go ahead and do some extensive reading some extensive exposure to things before you say that you can help a person with his mental issues most of the people that I see online I experienced this as well there's a person who said that he was a therapist he used the very word therapist telling that I can help you with all of your problems all that word was a very big red flag for me all of your problems your mental health related problems I when question on his credentials person never replied go to his LinkedIn stalk him a little bit find out it all those are udmi credentials oh can you believe it he calls himself a strong advocate for mental health and U udmi credentials were found and those individuals that he's trained with are from udmi because uh the learning again is continuous for me I go ahead and explore any and every form of learning I myself sometimes every time I get a call stating that somebody needs help I have a very bad churn in my stomach like oh man what exactly is going to be this case what is going to be the situation because you're scared because it's somebody else's life you have to be you're h responsible for that and you need as an individual be an advocate for mental Wellness I'm not denying it but if there are certain things that are you're not trained for acquire the right skill sets through the right way I'm not denying you or I'm not stopping you from telling that don't practice at all don't do this at all I'm telling get the right forms of skill sets through the right ways go ahead and go uh learn more expose yourself more in the right path then go ahead and help another person if you yourself are completely helpless after doing two or three certificate just for the few likes that you get on online you want to go ahead and put portray yourself as a mental health professional at the end of the day you're not just making giving yourself a bad name you're just giving that entire Community a bad name absolutely so they call us Quacks you would have heard uh they call shrinks quacks we had heard a lot of names uh if we and the first question that we get is can you read my mind I like no if you tell me what you're thinking I can probably go ahead and interpret it much better uh with road to Wellness also I never promis people that I'll will definitely heal them it's not therapy it's not therapy no I'm just giving them a space where they can speak their hearts out and there will be people like me who will be listening without any judgment and VI that's all I'm giv all you have to do is see if you're not accurate give them that safe space to went give them that Spa safe space to talk don't judge them do not go ahead and uh try to solve their problems I would say rather go ahead and bring them into an understanding of the problem much better for them go ahead and help them understand the problem what they're facing much better give them help them Reach the root cause how can you do that just by asking the right questions okay these are just simple things I'm not telling you to go if there are people with actual clinical depression who have actual uh anxiety bipolar disorder schizophrenia please don't try to go ahead and help them yourself seek the right professional right person can go ahead guide them to the right direction but be there with them the only thing is if they need you if you're promising them if you're promising them uh this is one thing which I want to tell if you're promising any of your friend or if you're promising another person that you would be with them through this particular Journey when they go ahead and heal go ahead and be there with them do not abandon them halfway through they will be needy set up very strong boundaries that you will not uh pick up calls while you're at work and uh you will not pick up calls after a certain time those healthy boundaries are needed okay but if you're promising a person that you would be there for them during the therapy sessions or during their tough times be there don't make those uh promises that you can't keep up false promises as simple as that don't make those promises that you can't keep up and uh if you do that that'll go ahead and put them more in a slump because they feel abandoned at that given point of that'll just go ahead and add more uh problems than solutions to them at that given point of time even my friend abandoned me at this point what am I supposed to do exactly and uh coming back to the topic which we were discussing a little bit at the very start of uh the previous conversation about suicide a lot of people taking their lives see it's a very very very uh disturbing fact that most of today's generation statistically I don't have the numbers at the back of my head head right now but if you go online if you read different different surveys that were conducted you would find different numbers but the issue is the same a lot of people have felt suicidal at any given point of time uh the signs some of them have gone through with it they are no longer with us I personally have had friends I've lost friends to that what they don't realize is that that particular Heat of the Moment right when you're thinking about it when you know that this is the end we still inside us there is still that little bit of hope that is looking for a way out of it okay before we go through with it if somebody calls you late in the night or they just drop your a message daing can I get somebody to talk to I want to talk to you please don't ignore those calls because that few minutes of you giving that positive or that comforting talk okay can save somebody's life exactly be there for people I have received calls at 3:00 a.m. or 4:00 a.m. from uh friends who felt that their friends were going through uh having suicidal ideations but as much as I wanted to get that proper eight hours of sleep there was somebody there who needed me more and I just gave that 20 to 30 minutes of time to hear them out separately we get on a call we talk they cried they went out and everything you go ahead and take promises from them but that 30 minutes it actually helped my friend reach that their location so if you are understanding the 30 minutes of hold which I had with that person by talking to them and trying to understand what exactly is happening with them reassuring them and hearing them genuinely hearing them out that 30 minutes gave my friend to reach the location and I took a promise from that particular person that they wouldn't go ahead and attempt anything until and unless uh they they really feel like okay this is the end of it I've asked them genuinely give me a call back I'll pick up your call if I'm busy I will definitely get back to you I will drop that message immediately to a person telling them that give me five minutes let me just get back to you and I will go ahead and if I know it's an SOS I I will definitely go ahead and attempt the call second thing is if you feel that your friend is going to go through with it please keep their loved ones informed that this is running in their mind it's okay to lose that person as a friend then lose that person completely at the end of the day absolutely okay this is this I I this was told to me by my friend and uh I'm I keep telling this to everybody it's okay to lose that person as a friend if he doesn't want to talk to you anymore just because you went and told their family members that you know what he's feeling suicidal and everything he or she is feeling suicidal it's okay if he doesn't want to be friends with you anymore somewhere along the line he will understand he or they she will understand and they will definitely go ahead and talk to you back but it's much better than losing that person completely to suicide because every time a person or goes through with uh successfully of killing themselves or go through with the suicidal ideations what they have four more people are affected because of it because they have that regret that they couldn't help and they keep sulking and that if that person was really close they keep sulking they keep thinking what could I have done differently to help and at the end of the day you and even before they know it they would be in deep depression thinking about it because losing loved ones regard at L of they your family or your friends is not easy I'm skeptical about telling the family because this is a personal thought why I'm skeptical from a gener point of view what if I tell their family and they treat him badly or him or her badly uh and okay say those things and then push them even further then you have to if you don't feel comfortable telling the family see idly families are to be notified but you can at least the least you can do as a friend is immediately take them to the nearest hospital get them psychiatric intervention the psychiatrist will go ahead and do what they have to do the psychologist will do what they have to do to Psycho educate the family on how the person is there feeling and how they have to be around the person those psycho educations will be provided by the doctors but the least you can do if he is if if his family is not approachable get them to the nearest hospital please do that because they as much as they're hesitating as much as they deny any form of help like I said it's okay to lose their friendship then lose that person altogether force them go ahead and convince them to go ahead and get help or just be with that person for the entire day and try to convince them to get help from a therapist it all depends upon how you go ahead and calmly rationalize with that particular person at that given point of time because rationalizing with them when they have suicidal ideations is next to Impossible it's a very difficult task but if you manage to get them to agree to at least see a therapist before they go through with this or if they agree the most important thing I would say is if a person is having suicidal itations best to be by their side best be by their side it can be as simple as taking them for a chai break take them out separately don't take them out in groups if you they feeling very uncomfortable take them out talk go ahead and convince them to get that help that they want let the professionals go ahead and uh take initiative from there on to help them but despite all of your attempts if a person still goes through with it don't beat up yourself over it you have done everything that you could most of us beat up ourselves because if we have put in all that effort and the person goes through with it we beat up ourselves what could I have done differently that I could have saved this person some people just don't want to be saved okay it's a very heavy topic I won't dwell too deep into this but I'm giving you the basics what you have to do the basic Bic first aid is reach that person reach out to that person go ahead and convince them to get help if their family is accessible if they are kind enough and compassionate enough to go ahead and understand what exactly is going on in their head please keep the family posted if you feel that the family is uncomfortable if you feel that the root cause of all the issue is the family get them to the nearest hospital doctors will definitely go ahead the psychiatrist and the psychologist will definitely go ahead and put in all the efforts they can to to go ahead and understand help them and psycho educate the family as well to the extent they would make them feel validated that their life is much more than what they feel at that given point of time there's much more to their lives it's difficult but sometimes people do go through with it uh there's nothing much we can do but there are subtle signs if you find people all of a sudden who has been completely down who hasn't been very socially active suddenly the person is very socially active he's talking to everybody he's everywhere and one of the most important most important thing which I've noticed with people who are have suicidal IDE initions is they plan it very very very well in advance they want their exit to be a phenomenal exit they plan it very well second they make amends with everybody that they have heard in the past regardless as could be as simple as I'll miss you it can be simple as I'm so sorry if I've ever hurt you in the past these are your cues what you need if it is out of their character to say things like this sit down with them probably they have these thoughts running there are multiple cues you can find it online there are lot of courses what normal people like us normal people like us can do it's a small certification courses of Suicide Prevention normal people like us can do it we have a lot of uh mental health startups in India as well I personally got trained by uh trained at y do I got trained at Banjara Academy and they all have very similar things to say about suicide suicide is planned very much in advance the person will plan they execute it flawlessly it's up to you to understand the subtle signs if they are acting out of character they're giving out certain Q wordss understand talk to them if they say everything is all right everything is all right everything is all right you still pressurize them you would understand that there is something not all right with them that's when they have to seek help they want to V it out with you they can get better nothing like it if you're very good at understanding going ahead and probing and paraphrasing everything nothing like it get them to a point and then make them seek help professionally absolutely there are suicide hel lines as well you have amazingly trained people you can just Google suicide helplines for your particular state nand is set up a suicide prevention helpline pretty much in every state and the number is accessible 24/7 if you feel like you are going through a lot and you feel that is the only way out consider calling and ringing this number and just talking to them or you feel that you can afford it go to a therapist immediately if you feel that you can't afford it talk to somebody if there are a lot of NOS working for mental Wellness as well they do it for free they don't they don't ask you for a dime or a penny or a rupe they do it out of the genuinity there are a lot of volunteers who would love to go ahead and help you because we know the value of life we know that there's much more to your life then what are the decision that you have taken up right now remember line from Death doesn't happen to you that happens to the people around yeah absolutely absolutely that's a beautiful line it you the amount see death impacts various people in different ways if one person that you love the most passes away you can literally feel their absence every single day until you come to that acceptance part of grief that this has happened right now and I have to accept it the way it is there'll be a lot of turmoil which will be going in emotional roller coaster is what I would say you will break down all of a sudden there's a lot of things that will be happening at the back of your mind as well I shouldn't have yelled at him I shouldn't have shouted at him why did I fight with him just a few days back I shouldn't have done this that everything will be running in your mind you'll start blaming yourself and at the end of the day you become more and more susceptible for being depressed clinically depressed if you let these thoughts take over uh I think suicide is also a very important subject and I'm very thankful that you bought it up and uh these are the signs that I normally go ahead and try to understand again if a person is suicidal to reach their premises immediately see if you can go ahead and help them out if they're very very far away ask any of your friends who live in that vicinity to just quickly go ahead and knock that door and talk to that person until you arrive or at least sit down see at the end of the day a life is more a life saved it's it's a very different feeling altoe if you manage to go ahead and save a life it's not that I'm telling for your own satisfaction but it is a sense of letting that person go ahead and look at life in another way and having another start to his life you're giving that person another chance in life right right so these are my thoughts on uh suicide as well shra I don't have any thoughts because gone through it myself it becomes really hard to discuss about that much likewise likewise it's a very uh I would say it's a very heavy subject for me as well but that's the reason that I wanted to go ahead and help people around and I'm given out the signs that they can look out for as well subtle signs the most important thing is when people start making amends with everybody hands down I am not I kid you not I have seen this in most of my cases if people you and say sorry for no reason I'm sorry if I have ever hurt you in the past these kind of things are more of them checking the things off their their list telling that I am going to go ahead and seek forgiveness from everybody they want to clean slate at the end of the day when they go through with it so these are your subtle hints you want to read more about it again you have uh very very guided courses around this on online as well please go ahead and read about it because it's a life skill that you will need in the long run as well trust me if you would can with that skill and knowledge that you possess from that particular any online certification as well or offline certification just for this bit Suicide Prevention you're just going to go ahead and make somebody's life much better if the situation ever arises share a few links with me I'll just put them in the oh absolutely absolutely I would be more than happy to uh there is one from mental strides Australia as well uh there is one individual here in uh Bangalore as well I have closely worked with her she's a very serious advocate of Suicide Prevention from mental health Academy India I'll share the links with you probably she can uh you can download the resources of her uh website and you can read about all the Articles that's written around Suicide Prevention as well okay I'll read it myself as well and put put them this was there are courses for us as well absolutely there are a lot of courses even your mental health uh I say it's psychological first aiding it's to help people immediately uh if they're going through certain crisis you have courses for that that is accessible for everyone it's not just with therapists or counselors anybody can do it so first in is nothing but you learning CPR for the body is like learning CPR for people with immediate problems emotionally Mental Health First Aid that's also a life skill that you can acquire it is a very good skill people have to go ahead and learn I'm sure it will be in the next coming years it will be a mandatory requirement that people will have to learn that they should add this to syllabus of schools in 11th and 12th or college at least schools and college yes I would definitely go ahead and U vouch for people learning about mental health at College levels as well as school levels to at least get a basic understanding of themselves they have to know who they are to go ahead and work more with [Music] themselves uh nice discussion man absolutely absolutely love the discussion