ERS but right now s mogano the ports are closed man they're all Spirit Halloweens now according to ramp capital I know you've been incredibly busy covering all this stuff sell uh what's the latest right now I saw an from lorianne it sounds like there's nothing going on I uh the Ila said they're waiting to hear from the usmx and the usmx said they have no updates uh Duna you know it's quiet there's nothing much going on in shipping at all holy cow there is it's ridiculous what is happening right now the uh Maritime Alliance and the Ila which are at loggerheads here they've been negotiating via press releases uh are really going back and forth so what we saw at the last minute uh before the strike on midnight was Maritime Alliance came out with an offer that looked pretty good I mean 50% pay raise they were offering three years of three times the amount of retirement money for the members they were talking about expanded health care and the biggest concession they made was they were agreeing to hold in place and lock in place semi and Automation in the ports the Ila has come out and refused it they've just basically said no we've seen Harold daget on the on the uh picket line he has come out and said no you have the White House come out with a press statement from the president saying that the the US Maritime Alliance which is largely composed of foreign shipping companies needs to make good to the Ila so if you're the Ila you are in the driver's seat right here there there is no reason for you to sit back to do anything but to wait until you get what you want which is the 77% pay raise they want some container royalties coming in that's a new one that they've added to this and they want to make sure that there is not going to be automation that replaces their jobs uh this is bad news for everybody else because what this means is that the Port strike may continue longer than we thought I was envisioning that based on that off offer by the US Maritime Alliance close to what the Ila wanted that they would sit down at the table the end of the week and maybe hash out a deal by next week now it looks like the Ila wants to maybe push this a little bit longer oh it sure does I mean daget was daget was bad and if you haven't heard like the normies the people who don't follow Freight they're not like obsessed with this stuff they're finally hearing who this guy is they're hearing that interview from three weeks ago when he said he wanted to the supply chain that that clip has been played over and over again at nauseum and uh it's really turned the public against the Ila's cause but I think it's worth giving some clarity just to listeners who are not familiar with the players who are at stake here now the Ila those are the Dock Workers from Maine to Houston at the ports but you mentioned the usmx a lot of foreign companies are in that what is the usmx for those who are not familiar just so people are clear on who they're fighting yeah I I mean you know dags out of Central Casting if you asked you know to come up with a union boss that's who you come up with but you know I did a long Twitter thread today where I did this is like listen what you're seeing right now is the Ila you're not seeing the maritime Alliance and I think that's a key thing that the news agencies need to do they need to go get the maritime Alliance so if you look at the maritime Alliance it's really made up of three things it's made up of the port associations those are the port operators it's made up of the stev adoring companies and it's made up of the ocean shippers but the majority of seats on the board of directors of the US Maritime Alliance are held by Foreign companies uh one of the largest port associations for example is ports America that is owned by the Canadian retirement fund so Canadian retirees own most of the ports in the United States but the seven big shipping companies that are on the board and it's a who's whoo of shipping companies we're talking about Maris from Denmark we're talking about hop hog from Germany we're talking about cmacgm from France we're talking about o from Japan Evergreen from Taiwan uh we're talking about most importantly Costco not Costco The Big Box store but Costco the Chinese overseas shipping company that's a state held Company by mainland China communist China so you know there used to be communism in in Long shoreman all the time now we got communism negotiating with long shoreman for this new contract uh you know leading up to this there were some deflectors oh it'll never happen the government will step in someone's going to stop it now that it has happened I'm on LinkedIn some of these same Logistics professionals are like well it's only going to last a day or two I don't know if these people are really talking to the right people I don't know if they're listening to Dag it um the reason I was so concerned leading up to this and people were like oh it's click it's not going to happen I had like the CEOs of giant Global 3pls dming me like I think this is going to happen we're pretty certain this might happen prepare um daget when asked how long this will last he said to I I daget to Wall Street journals Paul berer and I quote he said I don't have a effing crystal ball between my legs but it will last very long I would tell you that first of all you got to love daget he he is absolutely the guy you want to interview at all times because of what he says uh you know back in June I put a video up where I said this is going to happen and the reason I said it was going to happen is because number one I was talking to Ila members and they were hearing from their bosses you know hey stockpile don't get yourself in any purchases that are going to be a problem because come October there's going to be an issue they were setting this up from the very beginning and I think if you're Harold daget of the Ila you had to look what happened with the ILWU on the west coast and the PMA they saw that negotiation they they took that you know what happened there and they modified their rule book they looked at what happened with the United Auto Workers with Boeing with everybody else and daget is putting himself in the Ila out there as the barrier to these foreign shipping companies that's the narrative he's trying to propel and it's taking hold because he's getting it from the White House he's getting that image now what you're seeing shot back at the Ila is oh these are guys and women that make six figure salaries you know I had somebody text me just the other day from the Ila said saying yeah I'll eventually make six figures but I'm not doing it right now it takes me six years to work my way up just to be a full-time employee with the I Ila this is not an easy thing and again what they're trying to do is convey this narrative and I think the maritime Alliance we need to dig deeper into them and see who they are because what you haven't seen is the shipping company guys come out I've already seen Harold daggets yacht quite a bit show me uh you know Vincent Clerk's yacht from marisk I guarantee you he's got a nice big yacht and he's one of the major shipping companies here that are controlling this issue and let's not forget one of the big issues that the Ila have is automation but wages you and I talked about this a lot during the supply chain crisis those amount of wages and and money that the shipping companies made was astronomical last time they negotiated this contract was 2018 2018 was a net loss for the container liners now in 2024 they have the biggest years they ever had 2021 2022 and 2023 and they are peing back up again because of the houthi and the Red Sea and this strike by the way is going to make the shipping companies even more money because they're going to start laying Sur charges uh demerge you name it you're going to see a lot of SE charges coming on shippers here and it's in the end it's always the consumer who's going to pay for it no doubt about it s and you know I'm glad you mentioned the ilw and what went on with the contracts there because to get the perspective of the union workers which I'm not really hearing too much on the media either I want to play this clip from someone from the just you can hear how they are thinking let's play that one I'm a shun for La Long Beach and La is fighting against this right here I'll tell you right now see that there's nobody there automation I work at automated dock it's no joke losing thousands of jobs you got all these machines look it all these machines right here there's no people they ain't paying no taxes they ain't pay no money this is what Ila is fighting about this all used to be filled with top handlers utr drivers clerks all this yard look how big this yard is and there ain't hardly any people on this thinge this is what they're fighting about I work at automated dock right here portter valet Long Beach keep fighting Brothers keep fighting keep fighting you know they said that they are going to stand by the strike do you will the IL ilw refuse diverted containers that's that's something I was reading in the freightways white paper today do you think there's any chance of that that's a tough one for them they're under a no strike Clause so they can't go on strike because of the agreement they just had and it is very difficult to sort out containers that were coming from the east coast and now coming from the West Coast I I think they're going to be more of a voice of solidarity but that clip you played from Tik Tok is a really good one because dagged in his candid conversation which is anything but candid talked about that he talked about the fact that the lbct terminal Long Beach Container Terminal basically used to have 800 you know long shoremen working there now it's got a handful working there and I think this is the really the key thing and this is where I fault a lot of people especially in the government right now for this is that they needed to get the the maritime Alliance and the Ila sitting down and hammering this out we need to automate ports there's no question about that this is an evolutionary process you're going to see uh automation come in here to make yards more productive more effective because we can't build new container yards in the US we're basically stuck with what we have but there has to be a process whereby the members of the Ila who have put in their years and more importantly the retired members can be guaranteed that they're going to get their payouts that they're going to be safe and that the Ila as an organization is safe I think what dagget is most worried about is what's been happening with unions in general that that the Ila will break up into its individual ports and then the shipping companies can play the ports off each other we see that happening right now I mean we see the ports being played off each other all the time really the one unifying agent here is the Ila and let's be clear not everyone's in support of the Ila there are pilots associations right now that are upset with the Ila because ships aren't coming in they're losing money there are tug operators in the ports that are losing money right now so I mean the longer this strike goes on the more impact it's going to have and I think the Ila has got to be very careful that they don't go past that point of blowback against themselves right now people are commenting on them they're they're they're they're pointing their attention at daget but but if all of a sudden all the woses are going to be blamed on the Ila that's going to be a negative for them that's why I don't think it'll last as long as some people are now saying yeah I mean strategically I think dag it I mean I like that tough talk but I think when he started going and stuff like that it just gave that sound bite that is needed to make it look really bad what they're doing where it's maybe a larger issue that where he's just such a lightning rod for example let's listen to an Ila wife I have got a clip from one of them right now shame on you long shoreman and dockor shame on you Lady for buying into the media that these multi-billion dollar companies are putting out trying to turn the American public against the long shoreman you are theing problem a contract is redone between the Ila and the companies every six years the last contract the companies agreed not to automate and guess what they did it the anyway that was the thing you know that's a funny one they're so there were contentious what this was one port where they had like automated pregate check-ins and that was like a bridge too far for the Ila which is you know it's kind of crazy this is such a complicated because there's some truck drivers who are like I support it I don't support it but there is a very big amount of self-interest by the Ila they're not trying to make the drage truck drivers life easier they're not trying to make the sailers on the ship's life easier they're trying to enrich themselves they they are and and again you know if you're watching these container companies and you're seeing them come in and you're seeing the profits they've made again you know it's it's ludicrous number we're talking about and what did the container companies spend their profits on well they bought terminals they've kind of brok it out into New Logistics firms Mediterranean shipping has got an air element to them now so I mean you see that happening and you know again they negotiated when they went to the six-year contract they went to that because they made the argument this will create stability which means that they should have been negotiating prior to this in longer ways the gate down in Mobile is a really interesting one because that Gate's been there for a while it's not like it happened last night I think the Ila has been sitting on that because they wanted to use that as kind of the cause for war here and be able to trigger that but it's a good example of of how you need to get more productive you know when you look at the issues that slow up us ports you know we're looking at the Ila you know one group we're not talking about is the CBP the Customs and Border Protection how long it takes to clear customs and get containers out of the terminal how long it takes to clear Ships coming in and out of the port with the Coast Guard we have a lot of security in the ports to make sure that nefarious things don't come into the US that slows things down in US ports and there's a lot of elements at play here it's not just the Ila and I would argue that the narrative here is not being done very well I I don't think the US Maritime Alliance is being challenged enough where's their spokesman where's the spokesman from the where's the was the CEO of the maritime Alliance where are the heads of the shipping firms where are the port directors in these different ports let's get them out there and be more visible what we tend to see right now is daget because Dag's the magnet he's the one who's saying all the great sound bites that everybody wants but behind the scenes this is what needs to go we know that the uh Administration is talking to them we've heard that Buddha judge is talking to them we've heard that the acting Secretary of Labor is talking to them a little disappointed the Secretary of Commerce had no idea this was happening that's kind of disturbing yeah but we really need this discussion to take place we absolutely need to have this discussion to to take place s and you know the funny thing is you mention um you there's these conspiracy theories going on some people are like oh this that they use this strike they Ed the hurricane is leverage or uh they're doing it so Camala Harris can swoop in or people share that picture of trump and they say oh this is all a ploy so that when Trump gets elected it gets stopped but like the fact of the matter is this has been this isn't new this is only new to like Nores like this is a six-year contract and they went on strike the minute it ended like they didn't go early so I don't really see what the conspiracy is I mean I understand it's bad timing with the but that this has been negotiated for a while no we you know we've talked about Black Swan events this is as white a swan event as you can imagine we knew six years ago that this is going to happen on September 30th of 2024 there was no doubt about this everybody knew it was going to happen and I am firmly believe that the Ila leadership and it's not just Harold dag is the Ila leadership knew they were at a good inflection point here they had a lame duck president they have two presidential candidates who are running who have very different views on labor in many ways you've got kind of the labor workers kind of with Trump you've got labor organizations with Camala Harris uh you have uh Biden who is on a pick line for the UAW and says he's Pro labor he has announced that there's going to be no there's going to be no uh intervention by the US government no Taff Harley so he is in matter of fact in his presidential statement in the second sentence he talks about foreign owned shipping companies you may remember when he was in LA that time on the Battleship Iowa telling the shipping companies because of their Freight rates you know I should have come punch you with in the nose uh they knew that this is going to happen and I was just doing an interview yesterday with the Christian Science Monitor and they asked me he's like why do you think the Ila is doing this and I said so that the Christian Science monitor would write about long shoreman and shipping that's why they're doing it because that's the only way to get the attention and you know they hate what's happening with the hurricane but you know as well as I do there's nothing coming off their sh those ships right now that would be heading up into the mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee and Georgia immediately this becomes an issue a few Weeks Later yeah could and if this persists now before I let you go that's my last question it's prediction time um I was asked this yesterday on length and I was Dam by a few people how long do you think it's going to last and uh the more I thought about I just I I stuck with 17 days I got 17 days maybe I'm a little long are you over or under that cell so I initially sat there and said they'll get back to the table on Friday uh start negotiating they'll stretch it through the weekend because they want the weekend news cycle and then hammer out a deal next week but listening to daget right now and listening to what's going on it may stretch out another week they may want to push this a little bit more again I think they got to be really careful about going past the bar where this really starts impacting people and they start feeling it and then that's when they're going to lose the popular support for them and you know the question is do they have a media campaign you know do they have a a strategy out there to propel their knowledge if if you were like me at midnight the other day waiting for the notice that they're going on strike there was no notice you know I had my fax machine fire up because that's why way they they seem to communicate no live forid exactly to see and waiting just for people on social because you knew almost immediately social media would be like the the beacon of people just showing people on strike so you me John Craig we were all up at at midnight the other night you could see us just tweeting up a flurry because I don't know it's a it's a big story s everyone go follow what's going on with shipping s does an amazing job breaking down all this stuff and he does an even better job on his Twitter account as well go to mogly Ano on Twitter sth thank you so much I know there's a lot to get to and we'll probably have to have you back soon if this persists duner it's great to be with you and whenever Ship Happens give me a call man yeah and ship certainly has happened it's all over my feet right now so take it easy brother gosh