it takes just as much energy to do a big deal as it does a small deal right what's the average profit you guys usually make on Flipping a house trying to make 40 now on the groundup side you're probably going to double that like 80 to 100 I mean you're 29 and you've done $30 million of development so far how do you as a developer make money there's really three big things you have to master you got to understand your construction cost the debt structure is one of the most important things as well the third component is then what's up Wealth Builders today I've actually got somebody from our coaching program who is doing things that we don't usually teach too much he's actually doing development and he's doing it at 29 years old with over 30 million dollar worth of Apartments developed his family has actually built the number one rated resort in Oregon which actually includes a golf course so I'mma pick his brain today about developing amazing properties because you guys know I want to one day develop a golf course I got Durk vanderbelt what's up man how's it going Ryan thanks for having me yeah I'm Glad You Came dude it's exciting um to have a guy who's built a golf course on the show well your family and you've been a part of it I mean you've seen it firsthand and like let's get let's jump right into that dude yeah I didn't build it myself but I watched you know I watch my my father and mother do it there my father was a European Tour player yep mother was a school teacher big dreamers always big dreamers we grew up in the Netherlands and once my dad retired from the European tour his next dream was to build his own golf course so in their fashion right a European tour player and a school teacher who are big big dreamers they partnered up with one of their best friends and they built what is today actually this year got voted the number one Resort in the Pacific Northwest and what's that resort called it's called Teo Resort yeah and so they built the actual course on there and then like the resort itself it's mainly just hotel and do people like live there or anything yeah yeah they live there so it's it's a it's a golf course beautiful golf course you'd love it yeah it's Scot schling style David mlay kid he designed designed it and it's a membership base so people live there it's on a 720 acre piece of property there's members that live there year around and then there's 50 hotel rooms Boutique beautiful hotels restaurants Rec Center as well as vacation rentals so how are like the economics and all that because I mean like your family like you said your dad's a dreamer he grew up literally like playing golf professionally so he knows like what that's all about and Oregon's a beautiful spot you know how do you just all of a sudden decide to go build a golf course and like a hotel along with it yeah it was it all my dad always jokes like it happened he's a developer by default so when we first moved over he we moved over from the Netherlands 2005 he finished he finished his European tour playing then he coached for the Netherlands so he became a coach coached the the the Dutch Federation took them to a World Cup they won the World Cup in golf said okay that's a big accomplishment what's next he want wanted to start a golf course so he got he came over we used to vacation from the Netherlands we would vacation in Central Oregon it's a destination Town beautiful place and slowly but surely every time we would go there my mom and dad would dream about moving there right they would dream about moving there every every year they would talk about it and so then the idea came hey let's let's develop a golf course here he got originally he got hired on as the developers representative for the golf course so he came on and he was there working with David mlay kid and his team as the development representative sculpting the golf course talking about what they should do where they should put the Bonkers how they should lay out the greens right so he sculpted that and it took him from 2005 to 2008 to get everything built build the golf course get the plats and then boom the original developer as 2008 hits the original developer goes into default we were packing up all of our boxes we were actually going to move back to the Netherlands my dad lost his job we're gon to move back to the Netherlands and then through a series of conversations and relationships the bank who actually took over the golf course reached out to him and said hey can you help us sell this thing he he said yeah I'll help you sell it and a light bulb went off in his head one of his best friends who did really really well in oil always wanted a golf course so in a 3mon period he brought his friend over they looked at it purchased it and then like he says he was a developer by default he just built around it yeah they they bought they bought the course the clubhouse nothing else was done yet the they had like three homes that were sold and then step by step they built the hotels they built the rec centers they sold the lots and as everything came out of 2008 they ended up on the the right side of it and yeah it's turned out to be good so they still own it to this day yeah oh yeah and they just make cash flow from the business on the course and the hotel and everything yeah the I mean the biggest thing is the membership right yeah that's your biggest reoccurring how much is the membership fee there yeah so I think it's too low but I think right now it's like $650 for a golf membership monthly y there's a you know cheap yeah that's what I always say there's a deposit fee that goes in and then for a social membership it's three or 400 bucks so and then what's like the Initiation fee it's a $50,000 non-refundable okay yeah so 50k to join which very normal in a lot of nice courses and then you know 650 a month is cheap yeah that so when you develop your course one thing that you know I've looked at all those master plan developments they get dictated by something called the ccnr your covenants you already know about it yep the HOA yep the HOA Etc well one of the challenges was the original developer had written into those ccnr that you could only increase the dues by 4% every year oh well you we were in a we were in a bad economic time right so rather than increased dues we were just trying to get people to move there so the the key would have been once the problem is once you record those and people start buying you have to get like depending on the document either 75% of the homeowners to vote for adjusting them amending them or sometimes it's even 90 the key would be when you develop your Resort you don't tie it to a 4% you just tie it to CPI right you can increase dues tied to the CPI yeah and it automatically happens every year so that you don't fall behind on your you know your membership growth it would be we would probably be talking $1,500 a month $1,600 a month if it was tied in that manner right so I would yeah a lot of the courses I'm in are 1,500 to 2,000 bucks a month which is where it would be if it was if the raises were happening or it was tied to CPI right then you get once you're once you're stuck you're kind of stuck so yeah yeah well I'll tell you this one of the things I love about real estate is that you know you take okay in this case a piece of land in the middle of Oregon right and so some guy looks at it one day and it's like this would be a great spot for a golf course yeah I'm going to build a business on here then a real estate guy looks at it's like well we should build some houses we should build a hotel we should build another business and it's like it's just this one plot of land whatever someone imagines ends up becoming the business and that's what like attracts me so much to developing a golf course Community one day is like you know let's just say you go get this amazing piece of land in Oregon for instance and you can go get it for 10 million bucks and all of a sudden you could go literally create a billion dollars of value on this piece of land you build the right homes you get the right you know amenities you get the right businesses on it I mean you could create a billion dollars of like economic value it's not hard to well I don't say it's not hard but it's like it's very feasible yeah oh yeah 100% that's the that's even my addiction on the groundup game too right you take an idea yeah you see if it's it's financially feasible and then you get to bring it to life every single day and there's nothing like doing that it's it's an addicting process and there is a lot of equity creation there right a lot yeah I mean a ton both on if you do it on a single family side right let's say you're going to flip a house flipping a house what's the average profit you guys usually make I'm flipping a house we aim for 10% 10% so what in a number like 30 grand I mean if if our average house the median house right now is 400 Grand so we're trying to make 40 yeah make 40 on a groundup game on the groundup side you're probably going to double that more like 80 to 100 right now it's going to take a little bit longer probably double the time you're not going to be able to just put lipstick on it but there's a definitely a lot more Equity Creation in there there's a lot more profit in there yeah if you do it right yeah the thing I like about development too I you know so this is all my theory and talking to guys like you and you know other big guys but it's just like you have to find less deals you know if I want to go do a 100 house flips it's like all right well I got to find a 100 different deals negotiate them all and try to make my 10% with development it's like all right well you could go find one piece of land you got your 100 Lots go build yeah and you got your 100 deals in one transaction and now yeah you're going to spend the next few years you know doing them but still it's a different ball game and like it's actually more certain than a flip because you know your cost like it's just there we're not getting into these flips that you know we we get into something now we're like oh boy here's another extra 20 grand that we didn't see before and all that yeah exactly when you're doing a flip you don't know exactly what's Behind the Walls and you know it's it is tricky I mean even in the groundup game you said it right it's like it takes just as much energy to do a big deal as it does a small deal right same process same timeline so you might as well do a big deal might as well do a 100 Lots right rather than I've learned that lesson the hard way I had two two houses 60 miles away right we're doing the same exact house on infill Lots I'll never do that again I will only build now I building threes right if I'm going to do something I'm building threes or fives or tens I'm not it's just all in the same like same subdivision exactly like you said right because if I'm 60 M if I'm 60 miles apart right you have to factor in my superintendent have to drive both ways you just have to factor in all these things and I learned that the hard way you know so yeah I mean you're 29 and you've done you said $30 million of you know development so far so like what what is that consisted of yeah we just finished up a 84 unit my first big deal I ever put together was an 84 unit deal um six billion tell me tell me about the 84 unit deal yeah yeah so six it's six buildings we the land was a as you know real estate's a relationship game so one of my best friends he's a local realator he was at church and a guy that owned a property he bought a guy bought 10 acres super smart guy kind of goes back to what you're saying he bought 10 acres subdivided it into four Lots built 110 Assisted Living units that's his business right and then he he had two more lots that he was selling he told my buddy Jake at a Bible study one night hey I'm trying to sell this land do you have anybody that would be interested he brought it to me we looked at it quickly we were able to very quickly understand and see there was a lot of value in it and put a deal together kind of crazy how it all happened yeah tell me like the numbers and like how it happened yeah so it was he wanted he wanted about 1.2 for it uhhuh right and the way that that multif family game works if you wanted to quickly understand what you actually can pay for a piece to the land you want to begin with the end in mind so it's all based on hey when I finish this apartment complex what is it worth on the back end on a per unit basis is how I always think about it so I know that in that area that a finished unit is going to be worth about 250,000 per unit and I can work backwards from there we use What's called the 10% rule so I'm going to want to pay no more than 10% per unit for the raw land or 25 Grand right that's that's how we look at the value that's how appraisers typically look look at the value he wanted 1.2 million for the land or about 14,000 per unit and I knew it was immediately I knew it was going to get a praise for around 25,000 per unit so we tied the deal up I at that time I didn't have much cash I tied the deal up with $12,300 down so I put 1% down tied it up then we started doing our all of our due diligence got got the team in place got it all tied up we had 6 months of due diligence we started pushing it out to different investors and you know the nice thing about deals like that is once you have them in control and tied up Banks want to loan on multif family investors want to put their money in if you're going to get into the land right and we tied it up in June and before we had to release our earnest money for due diligence we had the appraisal in place we had all our hard costs in place it the project cost us $19 million to build all in and we had an appraisal in place for 23 million so we had $4 million of of equity creation before we even had to close on the deal super easy to sell to investors and in February of 2022 we closed on it and started building that same year so how much did you have to raise to do the deal we we ended up putting four and a half million in so you need four and a half million of cash yeah the bank provided the the rest of the 19 correct okay everyone knows that my favorite way to build wealth is through real estate invest think that's the reason that I started wealthy investor where we've trained thousands of students but here's the thing I've noticed that so many people fail to get started in real estate because they're worried about the money they don't know where they're going to get the money to buy a house or Flip or handle their Renovations and things like that and so they just never get started I want to change that and that's why I created a brand new free course that goes over five different ways that you could buy houses without using any of your own money today and I'm going to give you it completely for free all you have to do is go to wealthy investor.com podcast I've made it specifically for you the moment you go to that link you'll be able to go get access to it and learn how you could start buying houses today without any of your own money and if you're somebody who already has a real estate business and who wants to scale we want to help you too you can click the link below and book a free strategy call with our team if that's you and then for people who don't know like let's just walk through this deal like how it works actually so you had to go to investors get four four and a half million bucks right there at close NOP we had to raise raise we only had to raise for the purchase price of the land 1.2 million okay so you raised for 1.2 million yep cash yep then what how did the rest work yeah so we knew we knew that the total was going to be 4.5 but we didn't have to raise it all at once close close for 1.2 okay right get the land own the land go and get the entitlements and the permits to build and then with construction the nice thing is the bank's not going to make you put all the money in up front it'll be a trickle to hit your Equity threshold right so as construction starts we get construction draws let's say the general contractor finish the foundation he's going to bail us for that once we hit that $4.5 million Equity threshold then the loan starts kicking in so it was a it was a drawn out process a drip process of of cash outlay right so basically you guys had to come up with the first 4 and a half Mill correct like so there was no loan it's like hey we're paying out of pocket correct each step of the way we've hit it now they'll start funding the rest yep based on that appraisal so we did have Clarity on how much we had to raise right we knew that based on that appraisal this is what the'll loan us they gave us their loan amount and then we were able to to take it through yeah because at that point you've got the Landis collateral you've already developed to a certain degree and so you know they gave you what was that 75% value yeah exactly a little bit higher but yeah okay yep so this was in 2022 I mean we're now at the end of 2023 when we're filming this so you're already done with that project yeah we just finished it we just started leasing that was fast yeah it was like I told you right we were able to that's what I like about the apartment development versus like if you're going to go develop a resort Community that's big picture right you got to have you got to be patient you got to be 20 year game it's a 20-year game so what I like about the apartment is we can get in and out in 24 months right in and out in 24 months and now we're in that phase the biggest thing with development is there's really three big things you have to master you got to understand your construction cost your budgets right if your performers aren't any good because you don't understand your construction cost if I wasn't in the game myself if I didn't know what it actually cost to build units if I didn't know the day-to-day of what it costs it' be really hard to do it right so you got to know your numbers because you could literally kill a project let's say I told everyone that it's a great project but we built it for 24 million and it's only worth 23 that that it happens right so but it looks great but it looks really good so you got to know your you got to know your numbers then the debt structure is one of the most important things as well right I think one of the one of the things that we looked at was hey where interest rates at we decided to work with a small Regional Bank and we locked in the typical process would be you'd get your construction loan get it stabilized and then you'd put permanent debt on we didn't really want to be guessing in today's interest rates where it was going to be at so we locked in our interest rate our 11 and 1/2 year play 18 months interest only and then permanent loan amzed over 30 years with a 10-year balloon we locked that in up front so we were able to lock in the debt at how much go ahead how much how much did you lock it in at 5.35 under yeah well we underrot at 6% so we're happy right this the classic saying of under promise overperform yeah right and then the third thing on the underwriting we were good on the debt structure we were good on the budget side the third component is then what are the rents actually going to be so what I like about that versus trying to analyze what you're going to be able to sell a house for rents are way more sticky 6 months 12 months right we can look at rents and they may flatten but we're not going to see like in a neighborhood if somebody decides to sell their house for $50,000 cheaper that's going to kill our comps right I you know but with rents it's a lot more sticky so that prediction that kind of future bet it's much more reliable and that's the stage we're in now is hey what did we what did we perform our rents for and what are we getting rents for and we're very blessed that you know we we underwrote it very conservatively in three scenarios worst case realistic best case and we're hitting our best case rents so that's amazing so how much are they the rent is on average is about 1,800 1,800 these are one or two bedrooms it's a mix three bedrooms two bedrooms one bedroom okay yeah got it so 84 units average rent is 1,800 bucks yeah so what's the nooi looking like it's going to be yeah yeah the I mean from a a typical side right we're run we'll run it probably 28 to 30% expense ratio there in Oregon real numbers right Y and the noi will land we're Landing at in that5 to 120 a month okay range and then um before debt yeah that and what's the cap rates out there right now yeah for that's like a Maris property it's like beautiful really really good property they've gone up with interest rates right so I would say that that's about a between a five and a half to six cap right now in today's market but we wouldn't we wouldn't really be interested in trading it unless it's at five and a half to five yeah you know it just doesn't make any sense so just for those listening right the reason basically I just said a bunch of terms that people don't get so like the way that you determine the value of a commercial property is that you know you're going to take the noi divided by the cap rate and so like in this case you know when they were like hey it's worth 23 million they were essentially projecting hey you know this property should produce this much net operating income and based on what properties are trading for you know it's basically cap rate um that's what this property is valued at exactly and so because we had higher rents you know it's the value of that property we'll see how it shakes out but it's it's it's north of 23 million for sure yeah because just based on you saying the math you said I mean like at 180 or sorry you said 150 a month you know best case yeah or noi 120 I would say around okay so 120 times 12 months I mean you're at 1.4 is M so let's just say 1.5 million for easy numbers and then you know you divide that by let's let's just say 6% so that's 25 million even at a six cap yep exactly at a six cap right and that's where so that's where you know we look at that and and and then we also look at you know if you look if you look at where I think it's headed we can hold on to it we're happy with the cash flow is the cash flow phenomenal no I mean it's nothing that's like crazy good cash flow right if you study like Assisted Living Memory Care Assisted Living net free cash flow it's crazy crazy Apartments you know 400 500 bucks net free cash flow 300 bucks net free cash flow but as you wait with time as you know what that looks like in year three and five or seven is a whole different thing plus all the I mean from a cost segregation side 4.3 million is what we're able to depreciate based on the ceg we haven't got we haven't got our our uh 45 L yet which is all the Energy Efficiency stuff but 4.3 million of depreciation to the partnership yeah and so for anyone listening you know basically 4.3 million of depreciation means that you know all the investors I mean depending on what they put in and everything are going to be able to split that right off against you know if they're real estate professionals against their active income which is crazy you know if if everyone made 4 million that year they could wipe out their entire tax bill yeah yeah yeah now we you know they're trying to phase that out on us 80% this year 60% starting next year so yeah but so with that let's just talk about like okay so the apartment's done you guys are getting leased up and everything's going great um so you know in development like the the investors haven't been getting paid anything to this point right because there's been no money coming in you know you're just putting money going out and that's one thing people don't realize about like the development game or even just the fund game in general it's like dude you ain't making money for a long time and I tell people that cuz you know we have pen capital and we're in over 600 units now and I'm like guys like I have literally like not made anything just so you guys know there's a reason I got to hustle and make some content and you know flip some houses and throw some events because those are like active income things right now but my rentals you know our fund you make your money when you exit that's when you make the money yeah that's when you make all the money and there's a couple ways you can do it right you can if you like the asset why I like new construction is if you think about the lifetime of our asset right rather than buying a an old one fixing it up Etc oh bro give me a new one all day exactly the lifetime's longer so there's two ways we can get a c our Capital out right we can for example our rents are higher than we expected now the value of the property is 2 million we could put additional debt on there if it Services us and get some cash out we could go and probably get one or2 million taxfree out of that property that would be right away in year one in year seven we could look at hey do we want to sell it or let's say it's worth 30 million at that time because rent rent's going to grow 2 3% a year right we're going to see we're going to see some good growth there in general the cap rates get back to normal exactly we can sell in 1031 or we can just refinance and have it be a you know a tax-free event so it's it's just one of those games I think the key thing is to to look at it have a business plan have a couple ways you can pivot and and know just like you said that that Capital will sit in there but when you have that event in year 3 57 it's going to be great yeah so for people wondering right I mean you're either on the side of being the developer which is what you are and you're going to create the deal and do all the work and everything else or you're an investor right you had to go raise over four million bucks to do this deal and you know the investor it's passive for them y right and now they're finally going to start getting cash flow since this thing's going to start you know getting rented out and producing cash um how do you as a developer make money because I'm saying well you don't make money so how you eating you know like so what do you do yeah two there's two things I got similar to you I've got my general contracting business I've got my single family specs that I'm building and selling I'll build for other people as well right so that's kind of my operating but there's also if you go and control that deal like I told you I tied that deal up just me yeah didn't bring my debt nobody was in it was just me originally right Y and then I go out and we pitch it to different investors and there's there's acquisition fees that get layered into projects like that there's developer fees that get laid into projects like that and so there's definitely Capital that gets paid out I use it to put straight into the deal right yeah but so you're buying more Equity into it you've got it exactly because to me it's the more the more property I can accumulate you know the happier I am it's an asset accumulation game so yeah that's what I tell people too like even with our fund it's like all the fees just go into paying overhead yeah at the end of the day like yeah I mean the exactly like if you look at it's not like I got good money on fees went straight into the deal fees went into paying overhead the fees aren't really a money maker they're they might get you because you did the hustling you did the deal they might get you into the deal so if you're out there and you're like you really want to make something happen and you don't have Capital the fees can get your entry into the deal so I mean that's that's what it was for me right I didn't have Capital to put in I own 5% of that deal through a tick agreement and a majority of that was based on the development fee yep so you do that and you know obviously you guys are going to be able to do whatever you want here in the coming years you can refi you can exit everything else um tell me about just like the other deals you're doing like you said so you guys are doing spec builds you guys are doing um you know you said you got some smaller deals going on too yeah so we got a 24 unit that's in construction right now we're the general contractors on that as well so you know that's been going good that'll get done I'll call it may of 2024 and it's a again it's a smaller deal it's it goes back to what we were talking about though right it's like it takes just as much energy to do that 24 unit as it does the 84 unit we only have so much time so we're we're looking at probably liquidating that and then just focusing on the larger deals um we've got that going and then I've I usually have somewhere between 10 to 15 homes under construction as well now are those 10 to 15 are those usually just like home like tell me about like the clients are they just luxury homes for other people are they deals you see and you're like I'm just basically going to flip you know what are they yeah but I got a two buckets I build we'll build for others right from just a customer build for others operational business and where I'm going to go where I want to go ultimately is just building for myself so I say mixed bag you know I'm building fourplex for myself and then right next door I'm building one for my buddy I'm building we got three specs going we just sold two specs it's a mixed bag between building for others right and building for ourselves But ultimately I started that construction company purely to build assets for the family that's where it's going to go so as long as I can put enough development deals in front of us we'll be good we're developing uh we own a beautiful piece of property right by uh our local hospital there and we are building our first assisted living facility there as well so that'll happen this year 2024 how many like units and everything is that going to be yeah it's it's going to be Memory Care specific Oregon's really interesting in in where if you look at like the Medicaid programs in general it's a Memory Care it'll be 50 units 100 beds so 50 units 100 beds got it so like uh an assisted living facility like is it I mean it's just pretty much like a multif family like I mean you're layering on a massive amount of operation it's a you're essentially getting into Healthcare right so you're laying on a bunch of additional a bunch of additional operational challenges I'm just saying from the developer no it's way it's way easier right because if you think about building a assisted living facility we're just building ro we're building common kitchens not a kitchen in every single unit and we're building rooms so the costs per unit are going to come down way more it's kind of like a hotel it's kind of like a hotel you got it yeah because you're not doing apartments that need all their own stuff exactly so it's your cost per unit come way down from what's your cost per unit on those yeah we're going to land about 100,000 per unit versus is on yeah exactly on apartments we land at about you know at 200 so yeah so okay 225 depending on which one you're built where we're at so you're at 100,000 a unit so you're going to be at like 5 million on that property you've got it and so what is your projections on that because you know you were talking earlier that assisted living is great cash flow so how are you seeing that play out yeah so I mean we wouldn't even Venture in it if I didn't have my aunts and uncles have been super successful on the East Coast Midwest in the assist living game they know it they know it through and through massively successful in it and so we're venturing into Oregon to just bring that operation into the Pacific Northwest when you look at after you pay everything debt Etc like we talked about on an apartment unit let's say you're net free cash flows 300 400 500 bucks with Assisted Living you're talking somewhere between 2500 to three grand per unit well excuse me per bed per bed yeah because most of these guys are paying what to eight grand depends like Medicaid specific programs you can really figure out what you want to do there's split ones private you know private if you look at the average over in Oregon I would say it's right around seven Grand a lot of that comes from Medicaid right so Medicaid pays Seven Grand a month for memory care and you can do split facilities so the way we'll develop this is you'll have the goal is majority memory care but we also have Assisted Living ability and in Oregon that goes your Assisted Living Medicaid programs are in levels so from 3500 to five to 5500 depending on the care you need Etc what is memory care so for like people with Dementia or Alzheimer's yeah okay yep yeah it's Alzheimer's and um dementia exactly interesting so it's its own niche of um Assisted Living it's exactly right it's its own niche of assisted living and you know it's it's definitely if you look at like where Alzheimer's are heading if you look at where baby b baby boomers are heading right if you look at just pure numbers we're I believe we're going to see still a huge wave of Need for assisted living facilities yeah so so you guys are building that your your family is going to basically handle the operations because they already have that built out you're you're mainly focused on the real estate yep then obviously you're going to be able to learn yeah when it's built yep how' you guys build the 84 unit so quick I mean to go be done in basically 18 months it's crazy yeah we hired a amazing an amazing general contractor who I I learned a lot from watching them just for what we could bring into our company right and we had a couple benefits happening for us it during covid you know the last two three four years it was really hard to get subcontractors yeah well as as we started our project that's everything got slow exactly so we had the luck of like when we bid out our lumber package originally it was coming in at you know whatever it came in at when we purchased it we saved $310,000 so it was pure luck I mean pure luck and then we also had subcontractors who all of a sudden now they needed an anchor project because interest rates came up right we were already locked in a lot of the home builders put their projects on Halt and so now all these subcontractors who were busy busy busy they needed a big anchor project so we just got lucky I mean pure luck and then hiring the right group right I would hire those guys through and through all day long again I mean they were just so good somebody might be thinking well Dirk didn't you just say that you have a construction company why didn't you just do it and make the money with your company yeah it wasn't good enough yet needed to see it um it would have taken us they built it so we got it approv they built it in 12 months it would have taken us 18 all day so yeah you know you got to sometimes you got to be able to see what other people can do you're just not ready yet right and I'm I know what I'm ready and what I'm not and I'm not ready yet so and I honestly I don't even if you look at it what I want to scale is development I don't want to scale the construction yeah no not even close so anyways I think too number one I want to point out to the viewers that takes an immense amount of self-awareness and humbleness to say that because number one gc's are some of the hardest head people I've ever met and so like you look at this opportunity to build 84 and like whether it's Pride or ego whatever it's like a lot of GC like no dude I'm G build this thing this is my deal you know I want to put my footprint on this and I'm going to do it cheaper and and better like that's a gc's typical mindset right and for you to be like no dude like I I definitely wasn't ready and it's all good this guy is way better than me and he got it done quicker and I learned a ton from it that's the mark of somebody who is successful already but going to continue to be successful because one thing I've seen from people um you know especially in like the coaching program which you're in too which I'll talk to you about in a sec because of like you know once again why even join a you know a house spping and real estate coaching program when you're kind of like doing something completely different so I'm curious to hear that but like when I see people join a program who already are successful but they're like look dude I still got something I need to learn it tells me a lot about them versus you know I see a lot of people who have had a level of success and they think they know it all and then they just kind of like stagnate yeah yeah I mean I couldn't agree more to answer your question on the why I joined your program I mean it's you right fully 100% sent you Daniel Kong shout out to Daniel Kong I had a tax thing at the end of the year and I was like I got to spend some money on education and he said I trust him at that time I didn't really have social media I trusted him and he's like Ryan pan all day and I even I think we even tried to go through the sales funnel with or you guys try to take me through I was like no no don't worry like I'm in just take yeah just take it we're good and then then I came to your I came to your uh your event and yeah I mean I think one of the biggest things is I I am like I live the growth mindset right and you said something that that uh really like hit me right in the face because it's true like if you're an entrepreneur and you're not doing content or you're not doing social media like what are you doing you're an IDI like literally what are you doing so I came to your boot camp and I mean I took so I I knew nothing right five six seven years no social media I used to be like oh it's a distraction it's not a distraction it's a connection it's a network it was so ignorant so silly so I come here uh bring my family and you should have seen I learned so much in one day but two days I learned so much in two days took so many notes and then the key for me then was hey I got to go put this into practice so I started putting into practice and you know it's paid off I I actually from the program side things got so busy I kind of fell off on the program side but I got so much value I just I'm good I recommend it to everybody so yeah I mean it's a kudos to you guys because you hit so many different things you've got so many different programs and you know the I believe that if you want to learn something go and pay somebody you say the same thing but go and pay somebody so you don't have to sell me I pay 25 Grand all day I would do it again in a heartbeat I would pay 50 Grand just so everybody knows I would pay 50 grand for what I learned I appreciate that dude if you're watching this show my guess is you're probably an entrepreneur who's trying to grow your business and for me the best thing I ever did to grow my business was build my personal brand on social media it's allowed me to get more Revenue it's allowed me to raise more capital and it's allowed me to hire better talent and if you are not currently creating content for your brand you're missing out and your competition is so if you want to learn to grow my advice is to create a podcast now there's a lot that goes into building a podcast and why I believe it's the best way so I've actually created a free training that I want you to go check out if you go to PanAm media.com podcast you can go access the free training right now and see how a podcast is going to be the best decision to grow your personal brand today so go check it out by clicking the link below and I'll see you in the training yeah I think it it's funny because some of like we we do get guys who you know because like you know like you said we have a lot of programs right so whatever somebody's trying to specialize in we try to help them um but we obviously aren't developers right so it's interesting cuz like one of my other good friends who started in the program om Saha he's been on the show and um he's a developer too and um you know I remember before we became great friends I was like so why did you join like just I'm I'm genuinely curious and um you know it was a similar thing he's like you you know like I just want to know what you know even you know I can apply it to Everything I Do whether it's hiring whether it's getting deals and thinking about things in different ways and um his main thing was for him he didn't have another way of making money Beyond development and so he initially thought maybe I'll start a you know wholesaling or a house flipping business and then I remember we did a little Mastermind a couple years ago and I was like why are you going to go and try and learn this like you're you're so good already at this there's ways to make money today you know with your construction and Architectural and everything background and I was like you're already looking at all this land deals what why you got to take them all down yourself yeah you know why not just start entitling land and getting it done and flip them you know like easy money in that and I've met a lot of people who do that yeah it's good advice I I had a similar thing I'm like hey do I want to create other streams I'm like no just keep the main thing to main thing know what I want to scale right and and that's the development side I will say one thing there's there's a lot of hunger for like people who let's say they're in real estate they've maybe done the wholesale they've done the flip and they're looking for something they're looking for something else there is a lot of hunger in there I was sort of testing it out seeing like hey are do people are people interested in construction like what I call the business side of building right you think I move I have never swung a hammer in my life they I you know like all the guys that call me the pencil Pusher I love it I love it I'll be the business Builder all day baby I know the numbers I know how to entitle I know how to unlock land that's all I'm focused on it's a blueprint right well I'll hire the experts who know how to do the excavation the concrete the framing I just need to know a little bit mainly the numbers I mean that's if you want to be a business person mainly the numbers I know the numbers nobody can mess with me I know the numbers better than I would say like I can I will if you try to if you try to get me I know I know the number I know where you're trying to like yeah the G exactly I know the whole game I've been through it and so that's the only thing you had to master and then B the business side of building right the cont how to do the contracts how to put the deals together the permitting the insurance all the stuff that's important to and and quite frankly no matter what if you look at anything that's where the money is any the the person who owns the business who is the business side of building right that's where the money is it's not there's not huge money in being a subcontractor you can do well over time but if you really look at and study where throughout history where the money's made it's not in doing the the actual work it's putting the work together so that's what we do the business side of building and it's it is a template it is a blueprint it is a step-by-step process right so I wanted to see it like are people hungry for learning that and there are quite a bit of people who are hungry for it um you know so it's one of the things I was thinking about and playing around was like hey can we build a personal brand and then can we potentially are there courses that will people actually buy courses would they be interested we tried to throw our first event which was so hard kudos to you guys that you guys can do four a thousand people you know how much if anybody's ever tried to put on an event it is insane we did 35 people we I mean granted I came up with the idea and two months later we through the event but it is so much work but it was just a test out like do people want to learn about the groundup game is what I call it right buying land Building from the groundup and there are there's people out there that are hungry that want to know how to to do it and it is truly a blueprint so yeah no I love it so what what was your conclusion after throwing the event I mean obviously people want to learn it yeah I would I mean it was super fun I loveed that it was so much work and I was like what am I actually doing this you could have made probably a lot more money just focused on the business you got it brother so I was like it was so much work I had nothing to sell right and so to me I said was it rewarding yeah one of the passions I do have I really do have a passion to to help people and to educate I had a terrible time in school like regular school just didn't work for me I dislexia just the system itself wasn't good and so I because of the dyslexia and the regular school path I always told myself for a long time I was like hey I'm I had the story of like oh I'm dumb forget school yeah so you know that one of my passions is to provide people with true education stuff that they can like feel touch see and go and build whatever they want to build right you could if you want to build just one or two homes a year you could make1 to $200,000 a year have a completely different lifestyle right do whatever you want like what the energy that would take after learning the process and taking some risk is a completely different different things so I do have a passion for helping people or educating people on what I've learned and it actually helps me refine what what do I actually know like how smart like how how have I mastered this or not and when you go and try to teach someone you're like I don't know if I fully mastered this yet there's a lot more to learn baby yeah I don't know wait that's a good question I'm G have to get back to you on that exactly exactly um so but but I mean like somebody who's listening to us they're like dude Dirk like I I really want to learn or you know I want to work with you guys like where could they do it like just hit you up on where yeah they can hit me up on on Instagram just you know the the Dirk Vander I'm on Instagram Facebook um those are really the two big ones we've got a YouTube channel we took a little bit of a like a break I was real all in I took a little break over last month but then you'll see me really com yeah start ramping up I'll pick your brain a little bit on some ideas and whatnot but that would be where you can see us pushing stuff out and then maybe one day you know wealthy way will'll launch a development we might have to just do it you know we uh well well number one right I think anybody listening to this they could learn a ton from you so either way you know hit you up and I think investors and everyone too I mean every everyone's looking for a place to put their Capital right now and you know with the markets um predicted to be very good going in 2024 with low rates and everything I think um you know you're going to see a lot more Capital start flowing into deals yeah yeah we're we're England you know for example A lot of people put a halt on their projects from a single family side and I was like no like rev up baby cuz what I think's going to happen and if you the only place to look at really is what is the Fed releasing and they're releasing they've done if you look at the last two years and you read their reports and you look at the FED Dot Plot they've done what they said they were going to do so when I look at where interest rates going to go and what did drone pal just announce we're going to have three Cuts well guess what I've got product that in in spring and summer of 2024 comes online just when those rates are being cut in this plan could we have been wrong sure and what would have happened if we're wrong and they raised it well we would have just been pinched in our margins a bit okay I just sold two houses and rather than making you know 80 or 100 Grand we made 40 Grand okay that's life it's life you move forward move on but you know it's it's fun to make that little bed and and kind of go Zig when other zag right I mean that's I think that that's really important if you want to be successful and anything you got to turn your back to the crowd yeah I've always done that I've always um just kind of went to my own uh drum and you know like you it's just about taking risk and following your gut and at the end of the day right knowing the numbers and the risk associated with it and so for you um it's like you you started to do these infill lots and everything when others were like oh man dude I don't know what's going to happen and you know you took a bet that hey 20 24 is going to be better when all my product comes out you know out but even if it's not we'll still be okay because we're still under writing the deals properly yeah yeah we're being conservative you know one thing I appreciate and when I watch you guys and what you built one I look up to what you built but also I can see that it's like tip of the iceberg right so that's what attracts me in general about being part of your program all the things I'm like this it's just tip of the iceberg for these guys like they're literally just revving up look what they've done but they're just revving up that's what I see so yeah just my hats tip to you on that no I appreciate it yeah it's funny because when I look at um what we've built to your point you know just like thinking of the events since we were talking about how hard it is to run events you know we just started running events like two years ago like at hotels you know I think our first event at a hotel was in 2022 and then you know and from like 200 people to 300 people to a few hundred you know and it's like now it is what it is and I think this this next event will be our biggest um we should probably have like 1300 people I would guess and then I actually think we could do 2,000 on the next one but I don't know that I'm gonna have a venue big enough I actually think I might get constrained by the venue yeah and it ain't easy to do that's for sure like to to run the operation to sell that many tickets to create a great experience to Market and sell to get the speakers to fly everyone in to know how you want to like run a show just the entire thing to make it a great experience and there's a lot that goes into it but like then I think about it and I'm like huh we kind of did what nobody's really done in less than two years and we still are just like figuring it out like you said yeah just wait I mean you guys hands down you'll be selling out Arenas we don't know how quick but it all comp it all compound itself right look at you always talk about the first one you went to was Grant Cardone mhm you're going to You'll you will grow into into doing this similar thing in in your own style your own way but that amount that amount of people yeah it's it's inevitable look how look how quickly it's already grown yeah so what's what's your plan for you yeah I think 2024 it's you know we're focused on operational efficiencies from a general contracting business I had to invest in actually bringing people on you I'm sure you remember what that's like right so now you're bringing on remember I still do it every day yeah well you're yeah there's a stage of when you're first doing it right oh yeah yeah right because that was the fir that's a big big adjustment right when you go from no employees to five to seven right like dang this different I mean and now you're you're just going bom B bom bom but to replace originally to try to replace myself I mean that was a big investment right I mean I got two Executives that I'm a superintendent and a project manager that I'm now paying high salaries and that was a big adjustment big investment so we'll focus on operational efficiencies don't really I don't really feel feel like because I'm I'm not trying to scale the general contracting business so I don't need to layer on more stuff there I just need to perfect the standard operating procedures and get it to run itself right 2024 operational efficiencies standard operating procedures hand this thing off and have it run itself in the next 6 to 12 months so that 10 to 20% of my time's there and then the remainder of the time is in putting development deals in front of us so we'll put development deals in front of us that we self-perform on we I really want to break into that assist living because I think that there's a ton of opportunity if you look at what's going to the wave that's coming I like the cash flow behind it there's still developing opportunity for it so there's this perfect storm in my opinion coming of we're going to need more Assisted Living it's great cash flow so you'll see me really drive into that in 2024 and then uh we've got a huge piece of property that we're an annexing in right now which is going to take a ton of focus 65 acres coming into Bend and that'll you know once we once we're successful in that that'll what do you mean you're annexing in 65 acres yeah so every town city area has an existing city limit and then an urban growth boundary they're all required to have a 20-year comprehensive plan of like hey based on our growth our population growth and the needs of our city we maybe it's not like that in other states but in Oregon they're all required to have a a comp plan a comprehensive plan and you know based on that comprehensive plan that's required by the state each City will take their Urban growth growth boundary and they'll actually move it out during the during phases to meet the demands of that comp plan because more land has to be annexed into the actual City so what if you ever study like really smart developers the number one builder in the Pacific Northwest builds 2,000 homes a year I study I know all the land his father was buying land outside of the urban growth brry 40 acres 50 acres you know for what seemed like Farmland seemed like land that would never be brought in he is today building on that land and guess what he's doing cuz he's smart man if you watch any 40 50 60 acre Parcels that are being purchased right now outside of the urban growth boundary it's this guy he's still just doing it he's doing it because he's making the he knows that in 10 15 years when that gets annexed in the value of that property will be substantial so point being in we have a 65 acre piece that we're annexing in and it's it'll be 650 apartment units over the next 15 years it's 150 residential lots and then there's a light industrial that'll that'll be um moved as well so it's on that one we're really doing the land play so I've got we're negotiating with regional Builder and DR Horton right now to buy the Lots we've we've actually got a great offer from Dr Horton it's just hard to work with with uh those big National guys um and you'll see us you'll see me really focus on that because I think that that could be a huge Catalyst for our development arm in Oregon over the in 2025 um so yeah so with that like how do you know what is like well I guess it's annexed in so it's like in another city right now like where is it it's in the it's in the county so it's okay yeah so it's like the urban growth boundary let's say you draw you know the city of Bend Oregon where it's at they have a boundary and then when they do that comp planning they say hey we're going to expand this way and it goes from dutes County which is our local County then into the city got it so it goes out of County into City so because nothing no one lives there or anything right now it's just like there's a no there's a house on it but it's on 65 acres so it's those rural areas that you know if you have like if you have cash and you wanted to do a land play like those guys are doing buying those rural areas if you can sit on it for 10 to 15 years so like you're buying it for how much 14 A5 million and then what's it worth once it's an next in yeah um well let's put it this way for the residential lot which is 25 acres we have an offer for just under 24 million now you have to put infrastructure in and there you go that's the game just like we talked about right they're not making more land and there's a lot of value creation just like you told your friend why don't you just entitle in and flip it there's a lot of value Creation in entitlements yeah so do you see that as something you're going to do with all this other stuff because I mean like to me that seems the easiest way to like make some quick cash yeah see you you hit it spot on right it's like where's all the time and where can it all go so get the construction yep get it running itself and then focus on more of that I mean that deal that's where if you look at like if I were to ask myself where do I make the most per hour it's it's doing those deals yeah 100% through and through well the cool thing about like those deals too and I don't know how this deal came about or anything but like okay you get this deal you lock it up so anyone can you could own the deal 100% for now yeah right but the moment you know you you got to go raise 20 million bucks well then you know you're going to bring investors in and however however that get split it gets split but for the paper you know you just got the paper and then you know if you get a long due diligence and you going through this process of titling and finding the Dr Hortons and the biders and the buyers and you know all of a sudden you got offers for 25 million it's like well dude at that point you can just sell the paper and you don't really need to uh have anyone else involved and it's just pure cash to you yeah it's definitely that project's definitely kind of like pinch even the 84 unit I'm like pinching myself I'm like is this real on that project guess how much we put down how much 20 we put $25,000 down on a $44.5 million purchase price that's it and then the rest of it the negotiations on that right like the it's all about how do you how do we frame and how do we talk to people right one they have to believe in you so very blessed Extremely Blessed because people see the resort they see Teo they see what's been done yeah I have that name credibility yeah 100% if I was just a Joe it doesn't work that way so I I do not like I know that very clearly and I'm so grateful and blessed for that but then how do you use that to your advantage and how do you properly structure a win-win deal I mean we didn't want to have a bunch of money sitting there and Earnest so it's it's just conversations with sellers right hey we're going to go spend all this money to improve your property worst case we pull out you here's a clause you have the rights to all the work you're going to be able to we're going to add a ton of value to your property if we decide not to close which by the way after do diligence we've never not closed on a deal then you get the rights but we don't want to have this all this money just sitting in escrow not working for anyone right and most sellers if they they think about that they would agree with that so that's how we were able to have those conversations have those sit Downs create a win-win situation and then you know get that deal teed up so yeah kind of crazy but and so what do you think ends up happening on that deal yeah it's it's been interesting if you look at like how long and how long you been working on it yeah we've been working on it for six months six yeah 6 to 8 months um the city has to bring sewer in so nothing nothing nothing really happens until from a construction side until spring or summer of 2025 we've got the way the contract set up we've got a at annexation we have got a capital commitment so we're working through making sure we we can really have it all be finessed and part of that part of that is is deciding we've got this offer from Dr Horton but when you look at their contracts or you study those big like I mean they're a public company right so if you look at those contracts and you study what's happened in the past with guys like that part of their job is get as much get as much work ahead of us for our reporting as possible right so they might give you a great offer but how real is it you have to we have to really feel that out we've been doing a lot of communicating and conversations about that or do we go with the small Regional Builder smaller Regional Builder who we trust that we can work with so we're trying to work that out and by March of 2024 we're trying to have an actual contract in place have it set up to know who's going to buy the residential and then we'll let the rest of it unfold yeah so would your goal be to obviously you'll you'd make a profit on the residential and then You' keep the rest and develop it you got it yeah I mean not actually we've also had a couple people say hey we want the we want some multif family sites so we would sell like anything right we'll sell anything but the goal whatever whatever like is the best thing like okay you want those for all right cool all right you're going to give me this okay cool you know what I'll sell it all or okay now I only have um 10% of it left and that's where I'll do my own development exactly so if we can go low risk and just flip the paper we'll do that all day yeah but most likely what'll end up happening is we'll sell the residential we'll we'll start developing a little bit of the commercial and then we'll sell it all off as that area of town just continues to Boom so so is your focus just on Bend since that's what you know best or you looking for opportunities everywhere what's the deal yeah so I've had a lot of success in like those secondary markets too so B like if it's like a 30 to 50 mile radius and my dream and what I'm working on right now is breaking out into other states so I've got a project we're doing due diligence on right now in Idaho um we'll it's a 64 unit project we'll test it out with eight units to prove it these are first sale town homes we'll test it out to prove it and then we'll we're working on on a contract right now for first R refusal on the remainder of them but I got to prove it out right I got to make sure that it's kind of those baby steps I want to be in multiple markets so I got to make sure I can get it we're not going to general contract it but I'm I'm working on getting that teed up you'll probably see us in Spring of 2024 break into Idaho and then we're doing due diligence on a piece and Bosman right now as well so you're going into Montana Idaho you're in Oregon it's interesting because I thought about what markets interest me for a potential Golf Course development and um those are a lot of the markets I've been thinking about because they're very um just Scenic you know the scenery is amazing yeah but one thing I don't like is obviously it's not Year Round Golf so I don't like that so my question is like what are some of the challenges you face in those markets at least building you know is it tough to build since you know you get snow and all this stuff or what we'll build right through it there's ways to build right through the snow ground th machines Etc it slows timelines down but it's not too big of a deal on the on your golf course side I do agree right it's not Year Round Golf so what you really have to focus in on is that membership those memberships are year round so that keeps you going and and rocking but I think for you to one because you're passionate about it too because of your brand I like I love that idea for you I think that you'll you'll really be able to create something that that people are going to want to buy into so that's you know and and I think that um it's definitely it's definitely not an easy game to development there's a ton of risk and a ton of capital that it takes but it's super rewarding and like you said on the back end you can create a massive amount of wealth so yeah I look at um you know because I just been to a lot of golf courses and I'm like man we're in the US it's like a good yearr round location but also has scenery and stuff and it's like you look at California and everything and you know California is is beautiful but you know it's California so getting anything approved there is like gonna be a nightmare yeah um and so I look at like I love Latin America and Mexico and everything and it's just year round just awesome but you know it's not America so I've been really kind of like conflicted on where in America to go because I love the scenery of the Northwest and then you know you start to look at the coast of Oregon and California and those are great but you know they all have their pros and cons of like mainly weather or politics in California and Oregon and Oregon yep um and then I'm like everyone's like go to Texas and I'm like where's the scenery in Texas and stuff like those places you know um what's your favorite course you've ever been to uh this course in the Dominican called P Grande it's like 13 holes like literally off a cliff yeah it's like Pebble Beach yeah but but better yeah oh yeah so that's kind of like my mind is like I'm thinking I'm a weather guy I like just year round tropical stuff I don't like the cold yeah you don't want you don't want then you don't want to I mean then you know you're definitely in Idaho Oregon and Washington you're going to have the cold right California you won't but you got the red tape the only thing about that red tape and that challenge is like it's hard to get it approved but because it's hard to get it approved if if you get there and you once you get it approved that actually is kind of like I I kind of in one way like that because it will take a lot of work be really hard to do but a lot of people are going to Veer away from it so there might be a little bit of a of a opportunity you work through that headache and all of a sudden other people who don't want it you've put yourself at an advantage so yeah but I mean again there is the tax the taxes are a big issue people who live there just they love it but they get hit hard so mhm well I think in most of these though like people aren't living there full-time so they don't have to deal you know with the income tax what about Arizona I mean it's a desert yeah you want you want scenery that's the yeah yeah I know Arizona's got like cool places like Flagstaff and stuff those are those are cool what Sedona or something yeah didn't the real estate guys they didn't they went to like where did they go you know the real estate radio show didn't those guys go and develop like a I have no idea they went they went to Biz they went to Biz and they developed like a bunch of commities I don't think a golf course but it would be interesting to get connected with them and talk to them about you know what it was like because they're in the US what it was like they Ed their platform to get a lot of people to come over to B to buy into Bel to invest in Bel be interesting to see what that was like because one of the things when you talk about beautiful scenery like you said Dominican Republic Costa Rica those places are stunning and maybe maybe that is a place to to really think about and study and say hey I think some of my group can come and and invest there right that the radio the real estate radio guys they did that they really did that and then they they would have big events in bise and people would come and invest in their communities they were building so something to study maybe or think about because yeah well we um so I'm buying in Costa Rica right now so like beautiful beautiful place and um you know I go to Mexico all the time so I definitely like International but I don't know there's just like this thing in my mind that's like well dude you never done this before so you should probably like do it in the lowest risk way possible which you know stay State side yeah but then again you know screw it you know like just just do it and you know I had um what's it called I had uh Jerome Dr Maldonado on and so we were talking about development and one thing we were talking about was the politics of getting things approved and so you know with you trying to anex into a Bend I'm sure there's just like all this politic crap you got to deal with but I'm like yeah I guess in Latin America it'd be way easy to get something approved you know just freaking pay the right guy and it's done yeah see now you're thinking right I'm telling you talk to those guys talk to those talk to those guy talk to the real estate guys I can't remember their name but they did it so they'll be able to tell you all the paino you could L fast track your learning from all the pain points that they had and uh yeah the good thing though even though it's hard and it's red taped Etc like the good thing about the us just like you said is there's zoning and development code and the city if you follow zoning and development code they cannot stop you that's just that is just what it is so they can they can drag it out they can be annoying they can do all that but as long as you follow the code and you're not trying to up zone or trying to rezone or trying to get a conditional use approval if you can just take a piece of property and based on the zoning do what's within their playbook they can't block you so I like that yeah do you think you'll uh build a golf course or anything right now I'm focused on getting as much cash as I possibly can and then I think I'll move into wanting to do Legacy things on the you know on the on the backside right now I'm like hey analyzing hey what's my quickest path towards good cash right that's why you see me that's why you'll see me move into that Assisted Living because I I really believe there's a lot of opportunity that'll present itself there and then yeah I mean being able to would it would it be a dream come true to develop a resort yeah it's one of my things I've written down as a goal I just think it'll be um 10 to 15 years from now yeah yeah well you know what's interesting is and I'm glad you brought this up because I tell people this all the time so many people want to build long-term wealth which is great everybody should but they want to do it first they're like hey I got to buy Ryals now and start accumulating hey I got to you know get the Legacy thing done now and it's like no dude make some quick cash now because that's going to be you know number one you got to live so figure out what's going to pay you today number two you're always going to need to make money so like even if you have this Legacy asset and stuff odds are is probably not even making you that much you know you can like you said you're you're you're you you just built an amazing 84 unit building people would be like dude done yeah you know it's like well no okay you're still not even making that much money right now you have to still figure out how to make some quick cash today doing something and that's why like I'm always been a big advocate of flipping and wholesaling because I'm like look something's got to make the money today that you can just always count on not you know a thing that could pay you five years from now yeah like what can you do today and that's like even when I talk to developers I'm like guys you got so many skills you don't have to build every property you get you know what if you could be working on 10 of these entitlements at once y you're not going to take all 10 of them down take the best one you want and then go flip the rest of them and make that money yeah it's it's good advice and I agree right we we always have to have multiple buckets cuz when one's going if one's going bad which inev it will you got to rely on the other one so it's a how do you plan to scale out okay here's the problem I I found though with development and I thought I thought about man how do you like fix this problem so like with flips and Wholesales it's very simple like as far as training staff and teaching them but like you know the process of going through an entitlement and you know the skill that it takes and I don't know in my mind I'm like it's very to me it seems much harder to find the talent to be able to do that yeah the good part about that is as the developer you're just bringing the the pieces of the puzzle together right so Mountain Home the civil engineers and The Architects that we're using for the Mountain Home Project in Idaho different group than what we use in Oregon right so it's the way you scale it is we don't have to from a if you look at like and I don't know about your your friend but if you look at the development side what I like about scaling that is those are third party right I don't have to have the civil engineers in house I don't have to have the architects in house I don't have to have the general contractors in house I have to have the understanding of how to unlock a piece of land I have to have the right Prof foras understand the market and then I can bring all these third parties in to do all the work right they do all the work they get the entitlements done you oversee the plan of it but they do all the entitlements they do all the paperwork they do all yeah I guess where I'm I'm thinking about is just the acquisition side like how do you create such a robust acquisition team who can handle identifying lands negotiating entitling yeah that's a that's because it's like so creative yeah you're you're 100% correct on that it that's that's the thing that me myself I'm working on the best way I've been able to do it so far as just through relationship building right so who's the who I want to go into this Market well who's who's one of the names around here who who are the big real estate brokers around here who are selling land right and how do I build a trusting relationship with them so they know that we're serious because they don't want to waste their time right they're only paid on commission so I would say that's the through the real estate brokers letting them do a lot of your acquisition work for you but I I agree with you that's a hard thing to that's a hard thing to to work on scaling it's it just takes time building relationships do take time so you know it's it's a really good point and yeah because like you know every landal I've done freaking crushed it yeah but I can't I can't teach it and replicate what I did yeah yeah because it was unique it was yeah exactly you had you knew it you had to take the P pieces of the puzz yeah and I enjoy it too because it's it's a creative thing a house Li's not creative it's like okay that's the house all right just freaking let's go just fix it and let's you know it's not I mean there there's some Nuance to it but land is truly yeah dude this could be worth nothing it could be worth millions depending on the idea could we could you for example if you get really good at your buy box could you have a good strong buy box and then have acquisition manager have have sales guys or you know have have people who understand that buy box go and properly like properly network with the areas you're targeting because it's all in the real estate brokers right that's it's all in it's all in the real estate brokers 84 unit deal and 65 acre deal same broker yeah right so could you get a really good buy box use your marketing your your ability for sales Etc and go and build those relationships in the areas that are being targeted that would be one way I would see scale being able to occur but you'd have to be like anything right super clear on what your buy box is beardy Brandon did it right he said like I'm this is my exact buy box I'm going to be this I'm going to be you know and then he was able to w wave across the entire United States and pick up I don't know what he's done now just he just exploded the thing so yeah we um well like for me my buy box has been for my own personal residences so I haven't been like looking um you know for like oh this would be a great you know multif family thing because it's not that's not what I'm looking for and I think this is important for people to know is that it's it's good when you are looking for a specific thing so I like that you're like look hyperfocused on this right now I'm going to just focus on you know my city and the areas around me and I'm going to look for things I can develop assisted living and you know multif family on you know for me like my first land deal was buying um you know a mountain that I wanted to build my dream home on and so like I knew it was so undervalued because guess what I spent hours and hours and hours looking around the city for what I would want and it occurred to me how undervalued this particularly was compared to comps right next door selling for you know five times the price and so you know I end up getting this deal for 600 Grand and right now it's listed for 5.5 and so it's just like you know like and that was only a few years ago yeah and same thing with this Costa Rica property like I was like all right I'm looking for a second home I'm GNA start just looking at land and like different countries now I'm not even looking like in Costa Rica specifically I'm looking at hey as a rich person where would I want to go like live as a second home there's lots of options that rich people live in as far as International and so I started looking at like Cabo that was my first look I'm like Cabo I love Cabo it's freaking like two hours away flight from Vegas it's great and then I saw how expensive it was I was like dude this is literally the same price as California this is supposed to be Mexico I thought it's cheap yeah and it's not Cabo is the same as California just you don't you can't get alone yeah exactly or attack right off it's even worse yeah it's worse and I was like man okay Cabo ain't it so I start looking around and like I just started doing my own research and that led me to the Dominican because I was in the Dominican um couple years ago and I remember looking at the real estate and I was like dude this only like a couple million bucks for like this massive Manion like on the beach I was like that's crazy cuz this weather's great everything's sick for 2 million bucks yeah I'll do that that same Cabo house is 20 million bucks exactly so it opened my mind and so I went to the Dominican just kind of like observed and checked it out and I understood kind of like just from having it focus on it what it was and I was ready to commit there and then I just thought about it and I was like man the only thing I don't like about the Dominican me personally is the travel how long it takes yeah because you know I gotta go to Miami which I already hate going to Florida because it's so far from me it's like that's five hours then the Dominican another like couple hours from there so there's always a layover and then like this particular Community from that airport was another a couple hours I'm like dude the commute is like brutal just to get there so then my friend tells me about Costa Rica and I'm like okay you know Costa Rica's much closer you know the commutes way easier what is it um I I think it was like 7 hours with us going to Houston or uh to like Texas and then Texas Direct there and if there is a direct it'll be way L I don't even know it might end up being like four hours or something right so maybe one day there'll be a Vegas direct which would be great or I'll just have a jet so that'd be great too so but Costa Rica you know I went there and I'm like okay the weather's great the time Zone's great it's quick you know I'm I'm just going around the I no it's it's not an island sorry I'm Dominican um I'm going around uh you know just the the country and I'm like dude this is actually like super tropical and it's cool and you know by the time I just looked at the prices and everything I was like all right this is a deal I know like there's other basically I think from my own perspective I'm like I know there's other people like me who like these kinds of communities like golf are looking for this exact product and I know they're going to look at the same things look at because that's just how it is and I'm like they're going to see that this is way undervalued for what you get for the price compared to other countries Y and um yeah I mean like even right now that that land it's locked up you know I've got you know multiple six figures in EMD on it you know it's very different but I I know I could flip it now for over seven figures of of profit and it's like I mean I I still might you know like exactly whatever whatever you decide yeah yeah yeah but that's the point and I just kind of looked at it and I'm like but there's no way I could have ever like made that a business because I know what the guy like me ex wants who's going to buy this yeah that's hard to scale I agree with you through and through but one thing I think we just found out is Costa Rica's got to be on the list of at least places you're looking to develop your course man cuz oh bro Costa Rica is legit I like Costa Rica a lot um I like Mexico a lot too I just think not Cabo Cabo is like already I like I love Cabo but it's like it's not undervalued anymore yeah exactly people it's done 20 years ago maybe it's a different story for sure well bro um it's exciting what you're doing um super grateful for the kind words I'm excited we're going to go golf tomorrow so I'm excited for that um and it's going to be just cool to see what you do these coming years with development and finding these deals and I think my biggest advice to you would be figure out how to scale what I just told you I couldn't figure out how to scale because I think your buy box is very different than you know the guy looking for a second home buy box I think if you can just replicate you on finding these you know these land deals for annexing or for assisted living dude you'll freaking crush it it's good advice I'm I'll take it up and yeah we'll see where it goes yeah but guys if you want to connect with dark we'll link to his Instagram down below maybe you want to invest with him maybe you want to partner with him maybe you want to learn from him great dude who's willing to help so go check him out and we will catch you on the next episode Peace good job dude that was good yeah thanks man you built a crazy thing dude good job dude I'm trying man where' the name come from with MTI size yeah we I was on a run and I was like hey what does MTI size do for me or what does running do for me and I was like oh it momentz me and it's sort just some fake word yeah fake word I made it up that's funny it mizes that's what we did so is this Cuts yeah yeah yeah you just made a Cuts one I told you dude it look up to you man so it's just get the cuts get the yeah that's right the cuts does it the best yeah they do yeah you got the but I don't have no tats yeah that's hard tats you don't need you don't need the tats I need to get tatted up Dude Sweet that that was good man thank you once you do one home you know you never wanted do one again because it's a waste of time you want to do a minimum of two at a time you got to build a business model that's Recession Proof people try to push deals and they try to convince themselves that it's a good deal even if it's not the shortest cycle in real estate would be wholesale